When will Williams be signed?

[PaCkFan_n_MD]

I say within the next two weeks. We have at least 5 mil to spend and no one to spend it on. If TT signs Williams at least we have no significant players free agents next year.

[Bretsky]

I say within the next two weeks. We have at least 5 mil to spend and no one to spend it on. If TT signs Williams at least we have no significant players free agents next year.

I just hope he signs him

[ny10804]

Is this 5 million number an estimate of our cap AFTER the rookie contracts? Does anyone have a current number?

[Partial]

I don't think they sign him until they see how Johnny Jolly does in camp.

[retailguy]

I am not sure he gets signed... If he does, it'll probably be "in-season", doubtful it'll be before the season.

[ND72]

I think they're going to take a wait and see approach with Williams. He's had 1 good season. We have Jolly and Harrell now to compete with him, and don't discount Cole...while I think he is pretty average. But Williams, in my opinion, is really gonna have to perform this year with the drafting of Harrell.

[RashanGary]

We still have Williams for as a restricted guy next year. I'd have him show it again this year and if he does I'd put a 1st round tender on him and then sign him to a similar deal to Jenkins because nobody will come bidding.

There is no reason to let him go even if JOlly is good. He can play DE, so can Harrell. He was a very good player last year and a pretty good one the year before.

We could get him for 1/2 the price of a UFA with similar production. These are the guys you keep around. YOu don't want to go fishing in UFA becaue Pickett gets injured. Also, Pickett has 3 years left. He's not going to be here forever. There is nothing wrong with some young depth on the DL. This isn't the Sherman years. We can afford to have depth as opposed to just one starter at every position and hoping they don't go down.

[RashanGary]

This is the exact kind of thing that I am excited about with Thompson being GM.

It took a couple season but we're going to start to see the depth and roster quality you can have if you don't double spend on the UFA market and soak up your cap space on average guys.

We finially have depth at a position and we can afford to keep stacking it at multiple positions. It's just a matter of time before we start looking at many positions the same way we look at DT right now. DEEP and STRONG.

I'm all about spending money on impact. I'm all about getting great value contracts because the guys can't go anywere with RFA. This is the benefit of a good draft pick. I know we've only had a few lately but this is the exact thing taht I was hopefull for when Thompson became GM.

I'm certain Thompson will resign this guy. Watch. It might not be untill next year in hsi restricted year but he will be resigned and we will continue to build strength and dpeth.

[VermontPackFan]

This is the exact kind of thing that I am excited about with Thompson being GM.

It took a couple season but we're going to start to see the depth and roster quality you can have if you don't double spend on the UFA market and soak up your cap space on average guys.

Excellent point Greg, er,,, JustinH.

[wist43]

This is the exact kind of thing that I am excited about with Thompson being GM.

It took a couple season but we're going to start to see the depth and roster quality you can have if you don't double spend on the UFA market and soak up your cap space on average guys.

Excellent point Greg, er,,, JustinH.

We had depth at DT before he drafted Harrell... now, Cole will probably have to be cut this year (unless they decide to carry 5 DT's - 6 if you count Jenkins, which is another reason not to carry Cole), and Williams will probably be allowed to walk next year... so that leaves you with Harrell, Jolly, and an aging Pickett.

Can't see TT spending any more $$$ this year... he'll bottom feed after the June 1st cuts.

[retailguy]

This is the exact kind of thing that I am excited about with Thompson being GM.

It took a couple season but we're going to start to see the depth and roster quality you can have if you don't double spend on the UFA market and soak up your cap space on average guys.

Excellent point Greg, er,,, JustinH.

We had depth at DT before he drafted Harrell... now, Cole will probably have to be cut this year (unless they decide to carry 5 DT's - 6 if you count Jenkins, which is another reason not to carry Cole), and Williams will probably be allowed to walk next year... so that leaves you with Harrell, Jolly, and an aging Pickett.

Can't see TT spending any more $$$ this year... he'll bottom feed after the June 1st cuts.


Precisely one of only two minor gripes that I have with Harrell, wist, there is a fairly talented player that will have to be waived to make room for Harrell and the "quality" of the line is not that improved. Now, that being said, maybe Thompson will trade Cole for a 7th round pick somewhere and that's better than nothing, however, we'll just have to see.

But, on reflection, do we really need yet another 7th round pick after taking 34 guys in the past 3 years? How much room for depth do we have?

Saying that Harrell is the second coming of Christ though, is ludicrous. He's got a LONG way to go to become a contributor, and an injury history to tame as well. IF all those things go well, I'm looking forward to watching the impact he has on the defense, during the 2nd half of the season... most likely.

[MJZiggy]

Precisely one of only two minor gripes that I have with Harrell, wist, there is a fairly talented player that will have to be waived to make room for Harrell and the "quality" of the line is not that improved. Now, that being said, maybe Thompson will trade Cole for a 7th round pick somewhere and that's better than nothing, however, we'll just have to see.

But, on reflection, do we really need yet another 7th round pick after taking 34 guys in the past 3 years? How much room for depth do we have?

Saying that Harrell is the second coming of Christ though, is ludicrous. He's got a LONG way to go to become a contributor, and an injury history to tame as well. IF all those things go well, I'm looking forward to watching the impact he has on the defense, during the 2nd half of the season... most likely.

Why do we have to waive a fairly talented player? Why can't we waive a crappy one? Just because he brought a lineman in doesn't mean a lineman MUST get cut...What if Harrell costs Fergy his job? Or some nobody off the practice squad?

And just remember IF Desmond Howard does not return a kick for a TD, the Packers don't win the SB. That was a pretty big IF too.

[Bretsky]

Precisely one of only two minor gripes that I have with Harrell, wist, there is a fairly talented player that will have to be waived to make room for Harrell and the "quality" of the line is not that improved. Now, that being said, maybe Thompson will trade Cole for a 7th round pick somewhere and that's better than nothing, however, we'll just have to see.

But, on reflection, do we really need yet another 7th round pick after taking 34 guys in the past 3 years? How much room for depth do we have?

Saying that Harrell is the second coming of Christ though, is ludicrous. He's got a LONG way to go to become a contributor, and an injury history to tame as well. IF all those things go well, I'm looking forward to watching the impact he has on the defense, during the 2nd half of the season... most likely.

Why do we have to waive a fairly talented player? Why can't we waive a crappy one? Just because he brought a lineman in doesn't mean a lineman MUST get cut...What if Harrell costs Fergy his job? Or some nobody off the practice squad?

And just remember IF Desmond Howard does not return a kick for a TD, the Packers don't win the SB. That was a pretty big IF too.

We're only keeping 9 or 10 DL; the rest have to be waived or traded
We have plenty of crappy players at other positions :lol:

[MJZiggy]

We're only keeping 9 or 10 DL; the rest have to be waived or traded
We have plenty of crappy players at other positions :lol:

That's all I'm sayin,' B!! :)

[RashanGary]

Yeah, we can keep 5 good DT's and 4 or 5 DE's. Nothing wrong with a little depth like I said before. We basically replace Kenrick Allen. That is it, nothing more.

[Bretsky]

Yeah, we can keep 5 good DT's and 4 or 5 DE's. Nothing wrong with a little depth like I said before. We basically replace Kenrick Allen. That is it, nothing more.


Completely agree Greg/Nick/etc :lol:

I'll be carefully observing whether the Snapper chooses to resign C Williams. I'm glad you've stated your view on that one.

B

[retailguy]

Yeah, we can keep 5 good DT's and 4 or 5 DE's. Nothing wrong with a little depth like I said before. We basically replace Kenrick Allen. That is it, nothing more.

But, you made my point. Some DL has to go, and that DL is better than someone at another position (in my opinion).

that's the very point I made, whoever you are today....

Could you just give us a damn name so we know what to call you? :roll: :wink:

[ND72]

Yeah, we can keep 5 good DT's and 4 or 5 DE's. Nothing wrong with a little depth like I said before. We basically replace Kenrick Allen. That is it, nothing more.

But, you made my point. Some DL has to go, and that DL is better than someone at another position (in my opinion).

that's the very point I made, whoever you are today....

Could you just give us a damn name so we know what to call you? :roll: :wink:


No he really didn't. Jenkins, Kampman, KGB, Montgomery, Hunter (5 DE's)....Harrell, Pickett, Williams, Cole, Jolly (5 DT's)....nobody gets cut, we just replace a free agent Kendrick Allen.

[retailguy]

Yeah, we can keep 5 good DT's and 4 or 5 DE's. Nothing wrong with a little depth like I said before. We basically replace Kenrick Allen. That is it, nothing more.

But, you made my point. Some DL has to go, and that DL is better than someone at another position (in my opinion).

that's the very point I made, whoever you are today....

Could you just give us a damn name so we know what to call you? :roll: :wink:


No he really didn't. Jenkins, Kampman, KGB, Montgomery, Hunter (5 DE's)....Harrell, Pickett, Williams, Cole, Jolly (5 DT's)....nobody gets cut, we just replace a free agent Kendrick Allen.

Oh for heavens sake ND, if you can't see that the talent on the DL was better than other positions, then we'll have to just agree to disagree.

Allen played last year for damn near the vet minimum and is STILL available if we want him. The value of Allen on the team, minus Harrell, vs. a quality player elsewhere replacing crappy depth is still a loss... And believe me, when Colin Cole, or Jolly get waived, I'll be reminding all of you about this...

That's my point. :wink:

[ND72]

I wasn't agreeing or disagreeing...just stating that if we go as we did last year, NON of those guys gets cut. and if you wanna talk talent, I personally think Allen would be better than Cole or Jolly...and reversely, I think Harrell is better than Cole or Jolly...so we're not really losing anything talent. Plus, if Allen was going to sign with us again, he would have already. Just my opinion.

AND...i never said the DL wasn't talented or wasnt' the most talented on our team.

[esoxx]

No room for Montgomery anymore it appears. I was never impressed with his game anyhow. I don't see carrying 5 DE's.

[MJZiggy]

Why would we have to waive one of them? We have plenty of camp bodies to get rid of. Personally I'm hoping Fergie goes, but that's just me.

[Brohm]

About cutting people, TT's reasoning for the 5 (4?) TE's at the start of the season was that he kept the best players regardless of position at the bottom ends of the depth chart.

[PaCkFan_n_MD]

Why would we have to waive one of them? We have plenty of camp bodies to get rid of. Personally I'm hoping Fergie goes, but that's just me.

I agree, I don't see how people think we will need to cut a good player on the d-line just to make room for Harrell. Are d-line was good before we drafted him, but lets be honest it wasn't that good. We could use help in almost every area on the team before the draft.

Why not have this

DT;

Pickett, Harrell, Williams, Jolly, Cole

DE:

Kampman, KGB, Jenkins, Mont.

That’s 9 players who all can play. Now we would finally have an area on the team were injuries could happen and it wouldn't effect us. And if injuries don't happen then you will have so many options on the d-line that no one will know how we will line up.

As for us having to cut a more talented backup b/c we draft Harrell, I don't get that. What, Allen gets cut? who cares. If say we drafted a WR in round one, then Ferguson gets cut. I would rather have Ferguson than Allen b/c at least he can play sp. teams. (ok kill me for that one :D ) My point is were not going to lose a good player b/c of Harrell, nothing wrong with some good depth. And were not going to have to cut a more talented player.

[wist43]

It's all about numbers and special teams (I use the word "special" wrt to the Packers ST's tongue and cheek)...

Hell, Shermy kept 2 punters a couple of years ago... are they going to keep Crosby for kickoffs and to develop??? Or did TT just decide to waste a pick???

Wouldn't surprise me if they kept 7 DT's... no telling what those guys at 1265 are capable of.

36 draft choices per year; continually turning over the bottom of the roster - replacing last years 7th rounders with this years; worst ST's in the league...

[HarveyWallbangers]

Hell, Shermy kept 2 punters a couple of years ago... are they going to keep Crosby for kickoffs and to develop??? Or did TT just decide to waste a pick???

What? What if Crosby turns out to be better than Rayner? It's competition. More late rounders than not don't make the team, so if Crosby doesn't make it, who cares? If he turns out to be better, than PK solved for the next 10 years. I have hope for Rayner, so I'm not ready to give this guy the job. However, Rayner was not perfect last year, and this Crosby kid was "supposed" to go on the first day.

[pittstang5]

Everything will work itself out when KGB gets traded to the Redskins for a 2nd round pick next year. :wink:

[wist43]

Hell, Shermy kept 2 punters a couple of years ago... are they going to keep Crosby for kickoffs and to develop??? Or did TT just decide to waste a pick???

What? What if Crosby turns out to be better than Rayner? It's competition. More late rounders than not don't make the team, so if Crosby doesn't make it, who cares? If he turns out to be better, than PK solved for the next 10 years. I have hope for Rayner, so I'm not ready to give this guy the job. However, Rayner was not perfect last year, and this Crosby kid was "supposed" to go on the first day.

Just frustrated cause I don't see us even having a chance until at least '09 or '10 now...

A couple of years ago, I had said '08 as a best case scenario... that's moving back. After Favre retires, they'll take a big step back; about '09 and '10 they'll have to be looking to replace the corners - and, given the constant of contracts expiring and injuries... With TT's 10 year plan, I don't think he'll ever be able to get the roster caught up.

Reminds me of the FDR's road building projects back in the 30's... I'm sure they were great roads, they just never went anywhere.

[pbmax]

ND, or anyone, is Allen better than Cole or Jolly even if you take his injury status into question? He was unavailable for some time last year.


I wasn't agreeing or disagreeing...just stating that if we go as we did last year, NON of those guys gets cut. and if you wanna talk talent, I personally think Allen would be better than Cole or Jolly...and reversely, I think Harrell is better than Cole or Jolly...so we're not really losing anything talent. Plus, if Allen was going to sign with us again, he would have already. Just my opinion.

AND...i never said the DL wasn't talented or wasnt' the most talented on our team.

[Creepy]

We have solid players in Cole, Williams, and Pickett then we have Harrell who should be a starter. That leaves us Allen & Jolly. Now Allen never did anything last year and if Jolly had been so impressive other than to makethe roster I could get upset.

IMHO, Pickett & harrell will tire out the OL and allow for Cole or Williams to make sacks. If harrell is half the player they say, he may not get sacks but may get pressure up the middle so the QB can't step up. If that happens KGB will be able to finally reah them on a speed rush.

The othergood side of this is that if GB doesn't have injuries, other teams will. GB then could trade one or more of these DL for a decent draft pick next year.

[pittstang5]

As far as I know, Allen's not even signed yet and as someone pointed out earlier, if he was going to be, TT probably would have done so by now. To me, Allen didn't show much of anything. Maybe he has potential and his size definitely fits the Packers scheme, but if he can't stay on the field - see ya, good luck else where.

I think the Harrell pick solidified the point that Allen won't be resigned. Probably the same situation with Ben Taylor - TT draft two LBs and picked up a couple more Undrafted FAs.

From my impression, TT is all about the youth movement. If he has a guy that is younger and has potential as opposed to a veteran with some experience, he's going to go with the youth and develop the talent rather than possible pay more for a veteran. That's just my opinion from what I've been seeing.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Allen played last year for damn near the vet minimum and is STILL available if we want him. The value of Allen on the team, minus Harrell, vs. a quality player elsewhere replacing crappy depth is still a loss... And believe me, when Colin Cole, or Jolly get waived, I'll be reminding all of you about this...

You consider Allen quality depth? How would we know. He hasn't really done much in his several years in the league. Plus, he appears to be injury prone. I don't consider Allen quality depth at DT any more than I consider Robert Ferguson quality depth at WR. It's kind of apples to oranges. DL, more than anywhere else, is a position you need to have quality depth. Most of those big guys aren't able to go 100% on 100% of the snaps every game. You need bodies to rotate in. Even most of the good teams rotate their DL. There are a few exceptions, but not many of them. Personally, I think it's also the heart of your defense. You have a great DL, you have a good defense. If you have great WRs, it doesn't necessarily mean you have a graat offense (see Arizona).

[retailguy]

Allen played last year for damn near the vet minimum and is STILL available if we want him. The value of Allen on the team, minus Harrell, vs. a quality player elsewhere replacing crappy depth is still a loss... And believe me, when Colin Cole, or Jolly get waived, I'll be reminding all of you about this...

You consider Allen quality depth? How would we know. He hasn't really done much in his several years in the league. Plus, he appears to be injury prone. I don't consider Allen quality depth at DT any more than I consider Robert Ferguson quality depth at WR. It's kind of apples to oranges. DL, more than anywhere else, is a position you need to have quality depth. Most of those big guys aren't able to go 100% on 100% of the snaps every game. You need bodies to rotate in. Even most of the good teams rotate their DL. There are a few exceptions, but not many of them. Personally, I think it's also the heart of your defense. You have a great DL, you have a good defense. If you have great WRs, it doesn't necessarily mean you have a graat offense (see Arizona).


What I was trying to say is that having Allen as depth at DT is better than the depth at other positions, say WR for example. It would be better for the TEAM to have Allen at DT and Ferguson GONE, than to have to waive a guy of the quality of Allen and keep Ferguson because that position wasn't addressed in the draft (I KNOW WR WAS ADDRESSED, IT IS AN EXAMPLE).

that was my point. I'm not in love with the playing quality of Kendrick Allen, I just don't believe that DT was a position of "EXTREME" need. That's all.

And I reiterate, I like the POTENTIAL of Justin Harrell. I just think the selection was RISKY, and RISKIER than a lot of others in these rooms. There were safer choices, and there were choices available that could help more in 2007. (This is my opinion).

[MJZiggy]

But I think you're missing the point that some of us are making too. Just because be brought in Harrell, doesn't mean that it must be a D-lineman cut to make room for him. TT just needs a roster spot for him and that could come from any position on the field. He could cut Ferguson to make room if that's what he wanted to do. Fifty three men make the team. If you add one, you can cut any of the others to make room so you cut whoever sucks worst regardless of position.

[retailguy]

But I think you're missing the point that some of us are making too. Just because be brought in Harrell, doesn't mean that it must be a D-lineman cut to make room for him. TT just needs a roster spot for him and that could come from any position on the field. He could cut Ferguson to make room if that's what he wanted to do. Fifty three men make the team. If you add one, you can cut any of the others to make room so you cut whoever sucks worst regardless of position.

I'm not missing the point, I get that. I just think the 10th DT is better than the last backup at other positions. That's all. Maybe Ted will trade a DT and make us all happy... :jig:

[PaCkFan_n_MD]

But I think you're missing the point that some of us are making too. Just because be brought in Harrell, doesn't mean that it must be a D-lineman cut to make room for him. TT just needs a roster spot for him and that could come from any position on the field. He could cut Ferguson to make room if that's what he wanted to do. Fifty three men make the team. If you add one, you can cut any of the others to make room so you cut whoever sucks worst regardless of position.

I'm not missing the point, I get that. I just think the 10th DT is better than the last backup at other positions. That's all. Maybe Ted will trade a DT and make us all happy... :jig:

As long as he doesn't trade Harrell, Picket, or williams.