Why I WORRY about Jones.

[The Leaper]

I did some real research tonight on Jones. I knew he had played against inferior competition, so I wanted to know HOW inferior. Here's the proof in the pudding...rank of passing defenses SJS faced in 2006:

Wash St - 108th
Stanford - 23rd...looks good, but this is a 1-11 team.
Cal Poly - not Div 1-A
San Diego St - 17th...rating deceptive again...3-9 team that gave up 22 passing TDs on the year
Utah St - 112th
Nevada - 52nd
Louisiana Tech - 116th
New Mex St - 98th
Boise St - 45th
Hawaii - 105th
Idaho - 95th
Fresno St - 86th
New Mexico - 100th

So, out of the 20 worst passing defenses (by yardage given up) in DIV 1 college football, Jones faced 5 of them in 2006.

I am SO F-ING PISSED we didn't make a move for Jarrett...and have to settle for a one year wonder who put up numbers against some PATHETIC defenses. Hopefully my fears are misguided...but I think the evidence isn't very convincing in favor of Jones being battle tested and ready for the NFL.

[Charles Woodson]

i did make a note of that when i watched the film, some of his highlights are because the DB's messed up or were out of position. But i still think hes pretty good.

i just think he may have been a reach

[MJZiggy]

How'd he do against those crappy defenses?



(not being argumentative, I just wanna know)

[Charles Woodson]

How'd he do against those crappy defenses?



(not being argumentative, I just wanna know)

SJS is in the WAC division

this is the conference


2006 WAC Standings
TEAM CONF OVERALL
Boise State 8-0 13-0
Hawaii 7-1 11-3
San Jose State 5-3 9-4
Nevada 5-3 8-5
Fresno State 4-4 4-8
Idaho 3-5 4-8
New Mexico State 2-6 4-8
Louisiana Tech 1-7 3-10
Utah State 1-7 1-11

[MJZiggy]

No, I meant individually...How'd Jones do in those games?

[Charles Woodson]

2006 Game Log Receiving Rushing Fumbles
DATE OPP RESULT REC YDS AVG LNG TD ATT YDS AVG LNG TD FUM LST
9/2 @Washington L 35-29 9 130 14.4 50 3 0 0 0.0 0 0 0 0
9/9 Stanford W 35-34 7 82 11.7 33 0 2 57 28.5 42 1 0 0
9/23 Cal Poly W 17-7 9 92 10.2 43 0 1 9 9.0 9 0 0 0
9/30 San Diego State W 31-10 5 21 4.2 12 0 1 -1 -1.0 0 0 0 0
10/14 Utah State W 21-14 8 134 16.8 50 1 2 0 0.0 2 0 0 0
10/21 @Nevada L 23-7 3 43 14.3 30 1 1 4 4.0 4 0 0 0
10/28 Louisiana Tech W 44-10 3 15 5.0 11 0 0 0 0.0 0 0 0 0
11/4 @New Mexico State W 31-21 1 8 8.0 8 0 1 -8 -8.0 0 0 0 0
11/11 Boise State L 23-20 8 88 11.0 28 2 1 5 5.0 5 0 0 0
11/18 @Hawaii L 54-17 Did Not Play or No Stats Accumulated
11/25 @Idaho W 28-13 6 98 16.3 33 0 0 0 0.0 0 0 0 0
12/2 Fresno State W 24-14 5 76 15.2 42 1 1 7 7.0 7 0 0 0
NEW MEXICO BOWL New Mexico W 20-12 6 106 17.7 36 2 1 3 3.0 3 0 0 0


http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/player/profile?playerId=136035

[The Leaper]

He played good to great against most, but there were some surprising "no-shows".

Only 1 catch for 8 yards against 98th ranked New Mexico St.

Only 3 catches for 15 yards against 116th ranked Louisiana Tech.

Only 3 catches (but did score a TD) against 52nd ranked Nevada.

[esoxx]

I did some real research tonight on Jones. I knew he had played against inferior competition, so I wanted to know HOW inferior. Here's the proof in the pudding...rank of passing defenses SJS faced in 2006:

Wash St - 108th
Stanford - 23rd...looks good, but this is a 1-11 team.
Cal Poly - not Div 1-A
San Diego St - 17th...rating deceptive again...3-9 team that gave up 22 passing TDs on the year
Utah St - 112th
Nevada - 52nd
Louisiana Tech - 116th
New Mex St - 98th
Boise St - 45th
Hawaii - 105th
Idaho - 95th
Fresno St - 86th
New Mexico - 100th

So, out of the 20 worst passing defenses (by yardage given up) in DIV 1 college football, Jones faced 5 of them in 2006.

I am SO F-ING PISSED we didn't make a move for Jarrett...and have to settle for a one year wonder who put up numbers against some PATHETIC defenses. Hopefully my fears are misguided...but I think the evidence isn't very convincing in favor of Jones being battle tested and ready for the NFL.

Yeah but don't forget that when Jones goes up for the ball in a crowd "the defensive players around him just kind of fall to the ground."

I'm sure NFL DB's will do that too.

[Brohm]

I have been trying to dig up Antonio Freeman's draft bio to see how it compares to Jones as far as weaknesses...seems kind of familiar with not having it in front of me. Not a blazer but gets open and makes the catch and gets some YAC. Specifically what Freeman became known for once he got a hang of the offense.

[packinpatland]

What number pick was Antonia Freeman?

[Brohm]

3rd rounder

[RashanGary]

Hard to judge jsut how good he is. He did seem to have a good feel for the ball in the air and he never let a defender confuse him or effect his focus. I think there is something to a guy having that feel for the ball and that feel for positioning. I don't think it's taught as much as it is a natural skill. Sure, it can be refined like all football technique but I think there are guys who have it and guys who don't and you are wasting yoru time if they don't.

I watch a lot of practices and Fergy is one of the hardest workers out there. HE stays late. He takes practice very seriously but he just can't catch the ball. Other guys, like Jennings, just go out there and they naturally catch the ball. Fergy tries just as hard and has just as much experience; he's even more physically gifted but he just doesn't have it. It seems like this guy does but you have to get them in pads and see how they compare to real NFL guys. Jennings just picked right up and did what he did in college on the next level. Will this guy too? I don' know but Central Michigan didn't play the toughest schedules either so it mgiht not be a tell all.

[The Leaper]

I have been trying to dig up Antonio Freeman's draft bio to see how it compares to Jones as far as weaknesses...seems kind of familiar with not having it in front of me. Not a blazer but gets open and makes the catch and gets some YAC. Specifically what Freeman became known for once he got a hang of the offense.

True.

And, IMO, Freeman would've been a bust in the NFL if it wasn't for the fact he dropped into a perfect situation on the other end of a HOF QB in his prime.

[Joemailman]

What number pick was Antonia Freeman?

90th pick overall.

[ny10804]

Greg Jennings' Senior Year

Virginia #102
Toledo #89
Southern Illinois N/A
Temple #98
Buffalo #86
Ball State #16
Bowling Green #92
Kent State #97
Eastern Michigan #90
Central Michigan #22
TCU #48

[The Leaper]

I don' know but Central Michigan didn't play the toughest schedules either so it mgiht not be a tell all.

It was Western Michigan...and the MAC has a far better credibility in terms of delivering NFL caliber talent than the WAC.

[green_bowl_packer]

i did make a note of that when i watched the film, some of his highlights are because the DB's messed up or were out of position. But i still think hes pretty good.

i just think he may have been a reach

When I watched his youtube highlight clip I thought to myself that he should give a portion of his signing bonus to #2 on UNM. He didn't so much torch him as run around him after he fell down, multiple times on multiple plays.

[RashanGary]

I don' know but Central Michigan didn't play the toughest schedules either so it mgiht not be a tell all.

It was Western Michigan...and the MAC has a far better credibility in terms of delivering NFL caliber talent than the WAC.

:oops:

[RashanGary]

Yeah, LOL..I haven't watched that clip in a few days and I remember it was the guy with dreads for the gold team :lol: :lol: He sucked.

[packinpatland]

What number pick was Antonia Freeman?

90th pick overall.

You obviously have this info at your ready so..........could you list our starters and # they were picked? :bow: thank you, thank you.

[Lurker64]

The things I do like about Jones don't really reflect the quality of opposition he was up against:

1) He has the hands to make the catches that are tough even if nobody is covering you.

2) When he gets the ball, he's going to try to run people over if he can't juke them.

3) He has excellent timing on his jumps in coverage.

I mean, as a rookie he's not going to be running circles around NFL CBs, but what rookie WR does that? But he can certainly catch stuff that's thrown his way and isn't afraid of contact of traffic, and really that's what we need in the red zone.

[MJZiggy]

I wanna see if he gets a chance to get his fingers broken. :lol:

[Charles Woodson]

The things I do like about Jones don't really reflect the quality of opposition he was up against:

1) He has the hands to make the catches that are tough even if nobody is covering you.

2) When he gets the ball, he's going to try to run people over if he can't juke them.

3) He has excellent timing on his jumps in coverage.

I mean, as a rookie he's not going to be running circles around NFL CBs, but what rookie WR does that? But he can certainly catch stuff that's thrown his way and isn't afraid of contact of traffic, and really that's what we need in the red zone.

Im sure though that tighter coverage would have cut down on at least some of those highlights. I mean really the corners were flat out awful, and yes thats to his advantage but he is in for a real wake-up call when he realizes it wont be as easy.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Wouldn't all Pac-10 receivers be discredited then? What were the numbers for the defenses that Dwayne Jarrett played? Also, Jarrett had Leinart and Booty throwing him the ball. Who was the San Jose State QB? Is he any good?

[Patler]

Wouldn't all Pac-10 receivers be discredited then? What were the numbers for the defenses that Dwayne Jarrett played? Also, Jarrett had Leinart and Booty throwing him the ball. Who was the San Jose State QB? Is he any good?

Details Harvey, just details!
Isn't it easier just to write the guy off before he plays in a single scrimmage? :lol:

Maybe he will wilt in the face of NFL calibre competition.
But maybe he will step up his game to a level he never had to before and will be even better than he was in college.

[Rastak]

Wouldn't all Pac-10 receivers be discredited then? What were the numbers for the defenses that Dwayne Jarrett played? Also, Jarrett had Leinart and Booty throwing him the ball. Who was the San Jose State QB? Is he any good?

Details Harvey, just details!
Isn't it easier just to write the guy off before he plays in a single scrimmage? :lol:

Maybe he will wilt in the face of NFL calibre competition.
But maybe he will step up his game to a level he never had to before and will be even better than he was in college.


I don't think the original poster was writing him off, he just said it made him nervous. Look, I'm really fired up about Sidney Rice but the fact is, he's 20 yo (at least that's what I read). They say he's pretty raw. I watch youtube highlights and the dude is lights out. BUT, I can't help but wonder about the scouts negative evaluations on his route running and maturity.


The guy is merely pointing out his competition. We'll all know alot more come the end of August...and we'll know even more in November.

[Patler]

Perhaps I was a bit too harsh, but stating:


I am SO F-ING PISSED we didn't make a move for Jarrett...and have to settle for a one year wonder who put up numbers against some PATHETIC defenses. Hopefully my fears are misguided...but I think the evidence isn't very convincing in favor of Jones being battle tested and ready for the NFL.

sounds a bit more than just nervous!

[Mazzin]

Don't know if this helps anyone, but in my ESPN Mel Kiper Jr. has him going in the 6th round, BUT he does have a SLEEPER symbol next to him, so he was saying he may just be a diamond in the rough.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Abdul Hodge was projected to go in the 2nd round. Thompson "stole" him in the 3rd round. Hodge didn't do shit this year.

Dayrn Colledge and Greg Jennings were considered "reaches". They did well as rookies.

Jason Spitz was projected to go in the 4th-5th round last year. Thompson "reached" for him in the 3rd round. Spitz started at RG.

Tony Moll was projected to go undrafted. Thompson "reached" for him in the 5th round. Moll started 10+ games.

Aaron Rodgers was projected to be a top 10 pick. Thompson "stole" him in the 20s. Rodgers hasn't shown much.

Nick Collins was projected to be a 4th round pick. Thompson "reached" for him in the 2nd round. Collins has started for 2 years.

Mike Montgomery was projected to be a 4th-5th round pick. Thompson "stole" him in the 6th round. He hasn't shown much.

Seems to me, it's more likely than Jones will kick ass than not. The guys that Thompson "reaches" for seem to have a better track record than the guys that Thompson "stole" according to the scouts.

Yes, I understand the reverse has been true. Just trying to point out that the "experts" haven't even been remotely close while judging the Packers drafts recently. Seems to me the Packers scouting staff (which gets paid to do it) is doing a better job than the so-called experts.

[MJZiggy]

Uhhh Harvey? The team scouts ARE the experts...

[Lurker64]

Uhhh Harvey? The team scouts ARE the experts...

But they're not the "experts." The "experts" have nicer hair and get more time on ESPN.

[motife]

from New Era Souting's chat on James Jones :

Can you tell us about James Jones and give us some insight as to what Thompson sees in him to take him as high as he did? Im assuming they see him as a #3 this year since he was drafted so soon. Thanks.

Jeff.Cottrill-NewEraScouting] In my draft preview he was a guy that I had them targeting in round four, so I was only one round early. Jones is a guy that really caught my eye when I watched him play a couple games this season. While he may not have played in a great conference, he does have talent. I think he has a great chance of challenging for teh 3 or 4 spot as a rookie. He is a hard worker and he has great hands. The biggest negative is his straight line speed which is not as important in the Packer offense

[motife]

more on James Jones from Jeff Cottrill :

Jeff.Cottrill-NewEraScouting - "I honestly like Jones a lot and I think a lot of you will too when you see him play. He reminded me a lot of Donald Driver. He may not be fast in a straight line, but he has decent cutting ability and good hands. He will be a very dependable target for Favre. Clowney might need a little work, but he has some nice potential. Harris is another dependable guy, but his blocking leaves a lot to be desired. I think maybe they might want to bring in another veteran to push everyone, but"

Well I would say the one position with the strongest chance of surprising everyone would be receiver. There are quite a few young guys with good talent there. I really like James Jones and think he has the ability to work his way onto the field early on as a rookie. Clowney is a guy that could have an impact on special teams. Other young guys like Martin and Holloway (I think) have some potential to surprise as well. Don't be shocked at all to see Ferguson pushed right out of a roster spot

[motife]

http://www.nmnathletics.com.edgesuite.net/pics24/400/FE/FEWSSXHRMOJMIYR.20060622170609.jpg

http://www.sjsuspartans.com//pics29/640/TG/TGUXIYXCYRNGDRN.20060910025945.jpg


http://www.sjsuspartans.com//pics18/640/UN/UNGXAUZHQMEUWFC.20060910025902.jpg

a 42 yd TD vs. Stanford

http://www.nmnathletics.com.edgesuite.net/pics2/400/OP/OPXMLTXTPTUAKVH.20060924030712.jpg

49 yd. punt return vs. Cal Poly

http://www.sjsuspartans.com//pics25/640/TZ/TZMSPFNIILANIWC.20060924031607.jpg

one of his 9 receptions vs. Cal Poly

http://www.sjsuspartans.com//pics29/640/CO/COABYBEWQVOZKTZ.20061001032730.jpg
James Jones ran from scrimmage, threw a TD pass, caught five passes and returned a punt in the win vs. San Diego St.

http://www.sjsuspartans.com//pics22/640/YT/YTVKKGRPZRTKSBX.20061015033742.jpg

James Jones caught eight passes for a season-best 134 yards v Utah St.

http://www.sjsuspartans.com//pics29/640/LA/LANDUVTKTKINJBH.20061015034131.jpg

fingertip became a TD v Utah St.

[Patler]

The guy looks solidly built.

[mmmdk]

Don't know if this helps anyone, but in my ESPN Mel Kiper Jr. has him going in the 6th round, BUT he does have a SLEEPER symbol next to him, so he was saying he may just be a diamond in the rough.

Ah geez Mel, you know TT reads your stuff and he so craves those diamonds in the rough.

[packrulz]

I admit I don't know much about him but I like what I see in the video. He gets jacked up for games, has good size, likes to mix it up with DB's, comes back to the QB on a busted play and makes a great catch, has good timing, fights for the ball, and the one handed fingertip catch at the end was spectacular. Likewise, it seemed everytime the QB threw at Clowney he was in a crowd and always came up with the ball. I assume TT likes these guys because they're used to catching the ball in heavy traffic. I still think TT should make a run at MeShawn Johnson though, I do think he's matured a bit.

[Joemailman]

Don't know if this helps anyone, but in my ESPN Mel Kiper Jr. has him going in the 6th round, BUT he does have a SLEEPER symbol next to him, so he was saying he may just be a diamond in the rough.

Sporting News had the same thing. They had him rated #82 overall, but projected him to go in round 6. Apparently they either thought he would be overlooked because he played for a smaller achool, or they thought teams would be put off by his 40 time.

[HarveyWallbangers]

I admit I don't know much about him but I like what I see in the video. He gets jacked up for games, has good size, likes to mix it up with DB's, comes back to the QB on a busted play and makes a great catch, has good timing, fights for the ball, and the one handed fingertip catch at the end was spectacular. Likewise, it seemed everytime the QB threw at Clowney he was in a crowd and always came up with the ball. I assume TT likes these guys because they're used to catching the ball in heavy traffic. I still think TT should make a run at MeShawn Johnson though, I do think he's matured a bit.

Actually, to me it looked like Clowney beat his guy by yards on most patterns, but their noodle arm QB couldn't hit him. Saw a few, but didn't see a whole lot of catches in traffic. Kind of what I was hoping to see out of a burner. Jones looks like a possession receiver, but if he's a good that we can put at #3 or #4, he'll help.

[cpk1994]

I don' know but Central Michigan didn't play the toughest schedules either so it mgiht not be a tell all.

It was Western Michigan...and the MAC has a far better credibility in terms of delivering NFL caliber talent than the WAC.

That is a rediculous statement. It may have more credibility, but the MAC defenses are some of the worst in the country. There is a reason for the saying, "'There is no 'D' in 'The MAC'".

[Charles Woodson]

Wouldn't all Pac-10 receivers be discredited then? What were the numbers for the defenses that Dwayne Jarrett played? Also, Jarrett had Leinart and Booty throwing him the ball. Who was the San Jose State QB? Is he any good?

Details Harvey, just details!
Isn't it easier just to write the guy off before he plays in a single scrimmage? :lol:

Maybe he will wilt in the face of NFL calibre competition.
But maybe he will step up his game to a level he never had to before and will be even better than he was in college.

This is just me but i find it easier to instead of beliving in a guy and having him fail, to have him surprise me... I mean i think jones could do pretty well but im not holding my breath. But guys letss remember Who did Marques Colston play for? Hofstra now what division were they?

[HarveyWallbangers]

I think what Patler is suggesting is not get worked up either way, see what the guy can do. Then, either rip or praise Thompson for it. I think it's okay to give a snap judgement, but to think a guy will fail for some of the reasons people have suggested are silly. We've had to go through this every year (Collins, Jennings, Moll, etc.). There were others that failed, but that happens. Third rounders are far from automatic. I'd be disappointed if we spent our 3rd rounder on a stiff though.

You hear people rip Collins, Jennings, or Moll--but seldom hear them admit they were wrong. On the other hand, they are often the ones that rip Jones or continue to rip previous poor picks.

We all want the Packers to win. Me as much as anyone else. However, it's my team. I'm going to have some faith. It's not like Thompson has shown he's a poor evaluator when it comes to the draft. It's likely this class will be pretty good.

[swede]

Abdul Hodge was projected to go in the 2nd round. Thompson "stole" him in the 3rd round. Hodge didn't do shit this year.

Dayrn Colledge and Greg Jennings were considered "reaches". They did well as rookies.

Jason Spitz was projected to go in the 4th-5th round last year. Thompson "reached" for him in the 3rd round. Spitz started at RG.

Tony Moll was projected to go undrafted. Thompson "reached" for him in the 5th round. Moll started 10+ games.

Aaron Rodgers was projected to be a top 10 pick. Thompson "stole" him in the 20s. Rodgers hasn't shown much.

Nick Collins was projected to be a 4th round pick. Thompson "reached" for him in the 2nd round. Collins has started for 2 years.

Mike Montgomery was projected to be a 4th-5th round pick. Thompson "stole" him in the 6th round. He hasn't shown much.

Seems to me, it's more likely than Jones will kick ass than not. The guys that Thompson "reaches" for seem to have a better track record than the guys that Thompson "stole" according to the scouts.

Yes, I understand the reverse has been true. Just trying to point out that the "experts" haven't even been remotely close while judging the Packers drafts recently. Seems to me the Packers scouting staff (which gets paid to do it) is doing a better job than the so-called experts.

Quality post, Harv. I'm changing my sig for a day in honor of this insightful interpretation of the facts.

Either TT has shot himself in the foot by picking dudes where he did, with one seeming reach after another, or he has once again recognized some good core talent and played his draft board exactly how it had been planned in order to get the kids he wanted.

[Charles Woodson]

I was watching Jones' highlight tape again and i kept noticing his QB wasnt horrible. I know we dont neccesarily need one but


YEAR CMP ATT YDS CMP% YPA LNG TD INT SACK RAT
2006 181 276 2284 65.6 8.28 85 21 7 19 155.13

i know its a weak dvision but hes shown alot of improvement from last year

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/player/profile?playerId=148370

[woodbuck27]

Abdul Hodge was projected to go in the 2nd round. Thompson "stole" him in the 3rd round. Hodge didn't do shit this year.

Dayrn Colledge and Greg Jennings were considered "reaches". They did well as rookies.

Jason Spitz was projected to go in the 4th-5th round last year. Thompson "reached" for him in the 3rd round. Spitz started at RG.

Tony Moll was projected to go undrafted. Thompson "reached" for him in the 5th round. Moll started 10+ games.

Aaron Rodgers was projected to be a top 10 pick. Thompson "stole" him in the 20s. Rodgers hasn't shown much.

Nick Collins was projected to be a 4th round pick. Thompson "reached" for him in the 2nd round. Collins has started for 2 years.

Mike Montgomery was projected to be a 4th-5th round pick. Thompson "stole" him in the 6th round. He hasn't shown much.

Seems to me, it's more likely than Jones will kick ass than not. The guys that Thompson "reaches" for seem to have a better track record than the guys that Thompson "stole" according to the scouts.

Yes, I understand the reverse has been true. Just trying to point out that the "experts" haven't even been remotely close while judging the Packers drafts recently. Seems to me the Packers scouting staff (which gets paid to do it) is doing a better job than the so-called experts.

Harvey.

What else is the HC going to do but play the players that TT designates as to be retained.

We had holes all across the middle of our OL and Colledge and Spitz were picked to start. Same goes for Tony Moll. Being a starter and being solid in the position are two seperate measurements.

Abdul Hodge is certainly in a fight this season to be a backup LBer.

This will be a telling season on Nick Collins. He seemed to come on late last season against easier opposition.

The same goes for Al Harris who had a poor start to 2006. I recall that he looked very bad against the Rams. Maybe being at camps will avert that slow start.

[HarveyWallbangers]

They were solid. They weren't Will Whitticker. He had so start from scratch there because of the way the former regime set up some contracts, and I think he found the long-term solutions.

[Joemailman]

What number pick was Antonia Freeman?

90th pick overall.

You obviously have this info at your ready so..........could you list our starters and # they were picked? :bow: thank you, thank you.

Scott Wells 251
Daryn Colledge 47
Jason Spitz 75
Mark Tauscher 224
Chad Clifton 44
Bubba Franks 14
Donald Driver 213
Greg Jennings 52
Vernand Morency 73 (Houston)
Brandon Miree 247 (Denver)
Brett Favre 33 (Atlanta)
Ryan Pickett 29 (St. Louis)
Corey Williams 179
Aaron Kampman 156
Cullen Jenkins Undrafted
Nick Barnett 29
A.J. Hawk 5
Brady Poppinga 125
Charles Woodson 4 (Oakland)
Al Harris 169 (Tampa Bay)
Nick Collins 51
Marquand Manuel 181 (Cincinnati)

[MJZiggy]

Harvey.

What else is the HC going to do but play the players that TT designates as to be retained.


M3 has been quoted more than once saying that TT will not force players down his throat. I believe that the two of them have a very solid working relationship and that ability to work together is likely part of what got M3 the job in the first place.

[4and12to12and4]

I did some real research tonight on Jones. I knew he had played against inferior competition, so I wanted to know HOW inferior. Here's the proof in the pudding...rank of passing defenses SJS faced in 2006:

Wash St - 108th
Stanford - 23rd...looks good, but this is a 1-11 team.
Cal Poly - not Div 1-A
San Diego St - 17th...rating deceptive again...3-9 team that gave up 22 passing TDs on the year
Utah St - 112th
Nevada - 52nd
Louisiana Tech - 116th
New Mex St - 98th
Boise St - 45th
Hawaii - 105th
Idaho - 95th
Fresno St - 86th
New Mexico - 100th

So, out of the 20 worst passing defenses (by yardage given up) in DIV 1 college football, Jones faced 5 of them in 2006.

I am SO F-ING PISSED we didn't make a move for Jarrett...and have to settle for a one year wonder who put up numbers against some PATHETIC defenses. Hopefully my fears are misguided...but I think the evidence isn't very convincing in favor of Jones being battle tested and ready for the NFL.


chill out, we have plenty of talent at WR. You should start worrying whether our defense continues to get nearer to a dominating stage, and that our offensive line develops into a top 5 squad. If those happen, our receiving core will be very successful.

[4and12to12and4]

Abdul Hodge was projected to go in the 2nd round. Thompson "stole" him in the 3rd round. Hodge didn't do shit this year.
Dayrn Colledge and Greg Jennings were considered "reaches". They did well as rookies.

Jason Spitz was projected to go in the 4th-5th round last year. Thompson "reached" for him in the 3rd round. Spitz started at RG.

Tony Moll was projected to go undrafted. Thompson "reached" for him in the 5th round. Moll started 10+ games.

Aaron Rodgers was projected to be a top 10 pick. Thompson "stole" him in the 20s. Rodgers hasn't shown much.

Nick Collins was projected to be a 4th round pick. Thompson "reached" for him in the 2nd round. Collins has started for 2 years.

Mike Montgomery was projected to be a 4th-5th round pick. Thompson "stole" him in the 6th round. He hasn't shown much.

Seems to me, it's more likely than Jones will kick ass than not. The guys that Thompson "reaches" for seem to have a better track record than the guys that Thompson "stole" according to the scouts.

Yes, I understand the reverse has been true. Just trying to point out that the "experts" haven't even been remotely close while judging the Packers drafts recently. Seems to me the Packers scouting staff (which gets paid to do it) is doing a better job than the so-called experts.

Quality post, Harv. I'm changing my sig for a day in honor of this insightful interpretation of the facts.

Either TT has shot himself in the foot by picking dudes where he did, with one seeming reach after another, or he has once again recognized some good core talent and played his draft board exactly how it had been planned in order to get the kids he wanted.

He didn't get a chance to "do shit" this year, as I recall the first game he started he had a pick for a touchdown, so give the guy a break. He needs playing time.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Doesn't the fact he started one regular season game qualify him not doing shit this year? I'm not basing it one regular season game. It's on that game, the preseason games, and just word out of camp. He looks too slow for the Packers scheme, IMHO, but I hope I'm wrong. You can point out the gifted interception--for which he did nothing but be in the right place at the right time--but he was awful in that game. Barnett was out, and Shaun Alexander ran for 200 yards.

[BallHawk]

i did make a note of that when i watched the film, some of his highlights are because the DB's messed up or were out of position. But i still think hes pretty good.

i just think he may have been a reach

There is no such thing as reaching for a player.

Value is an illusion.

Donte Whitner was considered a boneheaded reach. He turned out being one of the best rookies of the class.

Ted Ginn is considered a big reach. If Ginn ends up being a Pro-Bowler and John Beck is their QB for the next 5+ years than that pick won't be remembered as a reach, but as good scouting. If TT gets his guy then I don't care if it's in the 3rd or the 4th or the 5th.

[esoxx]

There is no such thing as reaching for a player.


Donte Whitner was considered a boneheaded reach. He turned out being one of the best rookies of the class.

John McCargo was also thought to be a reach. He's proved to be underwhelming so far. You can't just point to one player and think that says it all. There's plenty of examples on both sides of the fence.

And of course you can reach for a player. Maybe the reach works like Whitner. Maybe it doesn't go so well like McCargo.

If Mason Crosy was picked in the first, think that would be considered a "reach"? Probably.

[HarveyWallbangers]

John McCargo was also thought to be a reach. He's proved to be underwhelming so far. You can't just point to one player and think that says it all. There's plenty of examples on both sides of the fence.

And of course you can reach for a player. Maybe the reach works like Whitner. Maybe it doesn't go so well like McCargo.

If Mason Crosy was picked in the first, think that would be considered a "reach"? Probably.

I don't think anybody is claiming otherwise, but more often than not, what is thought of as a reach by magazines and fans wasn't really a reach.

[esoxx]

Just trying to put out both sides here Harv. Nothing more

[Scott Campbell]

There is no such thing as reaching for a player.


Oh yeah? What about Grabby Smurf?

http://images.nfl.com/images/players/60x80/492900.jpg

[4and12to12and4]

Doesn't the fact he started one regular season game qualify him not doing shit this year? I'm not basing it one regular season game. It's on that game, the preseason games, and just word out of camp. He looks too slow for the Packers scheme, IMHO, but I hope I'm wrong. You can point out the gifted interception--for which he did nothing but be in the right place at the right time--but he was awful in that game. Barnett was out, and Shaun Alexander ran for 200 yards.

I disagree with you wholeheartedly. If you blame Hodge for Alexander's 200 yards, then you have to blame everyone else on the defense, also. I'm sure that Barnett wouldn't have done that much to help in that game. As I recall, it was snowy, and slippery, and Shaun's running style, a straight up runner who doesn't stop and cut hard, was very condusive to the playing field. I thought he performed as well as anyone else on our defense in that game.

You said you're basing it on that game, preseason games, and "word out of camp"? Whose word is that? And as far as preseason, I think you're memory is faded a bit, Hodge was spectacular in the preseason games, he was a MONSTER against the run, and actually outplayed Hawk. Everyone is this forum was trying to figure how MM could start him. He was hitting people with authority and getting tackles behind the line of scrimmage.

The only question was could he defend the pass. He hadn't proved he couldn't, he just came in with the rep that it may be an issue. But, those preseason games he played in, he was destroying people. That's why I say he never got the chance to "do shit" last year.

You can say he got "lucky" by being at the right spot at the right time for his interception the ONE game he started, but how many of those interceptions were dropped by Hawk, Barnett, and our DB's last year? Plenty. He WAS in the right spot, because he put himself there, he CAUGHT the ball, and ran it back without slipping on his ass in horrible field conditions. It was a great play, and I hope he gets more playing time this year, to show how good he can be.

[BallHawk]

There is no such thing as reaching for a player.


Oh yeah? What about Grabby Smurf?

http://images.nfl.com/images/players/60x80/492900.jpg

Hindsight is 20/20. We now know that Carroll was a horrible pick, but at the time he was considered a late first, early 2nd. He just didn't work out.

[Scott Campbell]

There is no such thing as reaching for a player.


Oh yeah? What about Grabby Smurf?

http://images.nfl.com/images/players/60x80/492900.jpg

Hindsight is 20/20. We now know that Carroll was a horrible pick, but at the time he was considered a late first, early 2nd. He just didn't work out.


I don't remember hearing any 1st round hype on Ahmad. But I didn't hear much 1st round hype about Barnett, Walker or Harrell either.

[woodbuck27]

Wow wow wow on Abdul Hodge Harvey. :)

HE WAS IN A ROOKIE SEASON.

Why doesn't he get your pass for just this reason.

Ted Thompson gets your pass for three-four seasons at 12-20 to date - entering his third; and Hodge is judged as not doing what. . .shit !!

Cut Abdul Hodge some slack . . .please.

[RashanGary]

Every time I hear the word "reach" written by web sites and draftniks it always seems to be used in the context that team A needed position A and there-for took Player A when Palyer B is clearly better.

I think teams reach all the time but we wouldn't know it unless it was in hindsight and even then we might not know for certain. I think Carroll was a reach on need. I think sherman eliminated large parts of his draft board *basically anything except CB* and then took the best CB on his board. In hindsite it would look like that is a big possiblity but I certainly don't know even though all eveidence points to it.

So to say that there is no such thing as reaching would be to assume no GM has ever put need before merit. If you are saying "none of us would ever know", then I agree but to say it doesn't exist is hard for me to buy, at least if we're defining "reach" the same way.

[ZachMN]

And where did Jerry Rice play college football? I would rather a team gets a guy who is still rising as opposed to having peaked and possibly plateaued. A lot of guys who are awesome in college don't necessarily maintain that in the pros for whatever reason. The real test will be if he makes the team and if so how he does against "real" opponenets. I liked what I saw out of Jennings last year and he played against allegedly inferior opponents.

[Rastak]

Every time I hear the word "reach" written by web sites and draftniks it always seems to be used in the context that team A needed position A and there-for took Player A when Palyer B is clearly better.


Actually I think it is usually the case of Player A could have been had "X" number of rounds later but need caused team "X" to draft the guy right there due to need or the fact they may have graded that player higher.

The second reason is the thing we as fans and draftniks don't understand as well.

[RashanGary]

Every time I hear the word "reach" written by web sites and draftniks it always seems to be used in the context that team A needed position A and there-for took Player A when Palyer B is clearly better.


Actually I think it is usually the case of Player A could have been had "X" number of rounds later but need caused team "X" to draft the guy right there due to need or the fact they may have graded that player higher.

The second reason is the thing we as fans and draftniks don't understand as well.

That's pretty much what I said :) I agree.