Question about D-LINE...

[packers11]

If everything "goes as planned" how would the D-LINE LOOK???

Run Downs - Jenkins Harrell Pickett Kamp
Pass Downs - KGB Jenkins Williams Kamp

Would that be the lineup ???

[HarveyWallbangers]

I'd say that would be clode. I think Harrell has a shot at getting passing down snaps too, but Williams will be in the game a lot. I like this rotation.

[oregonpackfan]

With any rotation, it is nice to see the Packers now have enouch depth they can rotate fresh bodies into the lineup on hot days, etc.

[RashanGary]

3rd and 1 at the goal line

Jenkins Harrell Pickett Williams




3rd and 2 at the Packers 30

Jenkins Harrell Pickett Williams





2nd and 12 at the other teams 18 yd line

KGB Jenkins Williams Kampman



There are a bunch of lineups and options. Out of 4 starting DL positions, there is a total of 400% time.

Kampman 75%
Jenkins 60%
Pickett 60%%
Williams 60%
Harrell 60%%
KGB 60%
Jolly 25%

Something like that for a rotation. Whenever one guy is down, Cole works his way into the rotation and chances are at least one guy will always be injured. If healthy, the DL rotation will probably go something like this. I think with Hawk, Barnett and Poppinga roaming behind this group, we can have a fairly dominate front 7 if it is the starters or the backups. Basically there will be no easy snaps for the offense.

[RashanGary]

I think Favre is going to feel pretty good if the other team can't keep their offense on the field and their defense is limping at the end of the game. I'm pretty sure Favre, Driver, Jennings, the improved line and company can do some decent things against an exhausted defense.

[RashanGary]

We have so many run stuffers that I'd almost rather treat Kamp and KGB as pass rush guys. Kamp needs a rest at some point and I'd rather he take a breather on a run play and be spelled by a guy like Corey Williams.

[packinpatland]

You are keeping in mind that KGB didn't have a spectacular year last year.
Not to say he isn't capable.

[RashanGary]

I think KGB has about 1 more effective year and he's done unless he gets on HGH which I think he should.

[Bretsky]

I think Favre is going to feel pretty good if the other team can't keep their offense on the field and their defense is limping at the end of the game. I'm pretty sure Favre, Driver, Jennings, the improved line and company can do some decent things against an exhausted defense.

Interesting points, but another view.

ON the other hand out talent positions on offense are painfully thin and we can not afford any injuries at all there. We tend to get our WR's banged up and injured; if either Jennings or Driver gets injured and missed any amount of time I think the opposing defenses may also feel real good about the 3 and outs we'll be seeing from the Green Bay Offense.

[RashanGary]

Nice point B,

I wonder if you looked around the league at teams like Chicago, Minnesota, Carolina, Kansas City, San Diego and others if you'd find 3 #1 starters.

The Pakcers have a good #1 in Driver, a guy who was a good #2 as a rookie before his injury and a bunch of guys after that and who knows. I just don't think every team has 3 starters and we do have 2 IMO.

I just think our WR stuff is exaggerated because the line sucked and it was hard to really play our game.

[HarveyWallbangers]

I don't think we are as bad at WR as Bretsky thinks. Jackson has to be a player for us to be alright at RB, but I like him and I think Morency has a shot at being pretty good too. TE stinks. There's depth on the OL. We have Rodgers behind Favre (hopefully, that's a good thing). We have a major hole at TE, but I'm starting to like this team.

It's key that we stay healthy at starting WR, Jackson is a player, Poppinga takes a step up, our starting corners stay healthy, and one of the young guys at S step up. Should be an interesting team to watch in training camp with all of the young guys.

[RashanGary]

It's funny how Franks was a good TE his whole career and then all of a sudden when he was in pass pro 80% of the pass plays he dropped off.

I don't think it's a solid fact that Bubba has dropped off the face of the earth. He has a hcance to bounce back if teh line can handle themselves without help.

[Bretsky]

I don't think we are as bad at WR as Bretsky thinks. Jackson has to be a player for us to be alright at RB, but I like him and I think Morency has a shot at being pretty good too. TE stinks. There's depth on the OL. We have Rodgers behind Favre (hopefully, that's a good thing). We have a major hole at TE, but I'm starting to like this team.

It's key that we stay healthy at starting WR, Jackson is a player, Poppinga takes a step up, our starting corners stay healthy, and one of the young guys at S step up. Should be an interesting team to watch in training camp with all of the young guys.


You are right; we have to hit on Jackson to have a shot. No doubt about that.
Don't buy into the Morency Kool Aide yet. We have Stocco now so maybe depth will develop at QB :lol: Our TE's stink, and we absolutely cannot afford to lose Jennings or Driver. This offense could sink.

[RashanGary]

I think we're fine at WR1, WR2, TE, LT, LG, C, RG, RT, QB

I agree that we have major questions at RB and FB and I'm not too concerned about the FB. Jackson looks good in college and Morency is said ot be in great shape.

We'll see how that group pans out. AGain, I believe the defense is going to carry this team but the Favre/Driver/Jennings lead offense might help out from time to time.

[Bretsky]

It's funny how Franks was a good TE his whole career and then all of a sudden when he was in pass pro 80% of the pass plays he dropped off.

I don't think it's a solid fact that Bubba has dropped of the face of the earth. He has a hcance to bounce back if teh line can handle themselves without help.

Bubba was a good blocking TE his while career. He was never much of a WR threat. He knows how to pick his seam in the zone. One difference from the past is he use to be quick enough to get off of the jam from the LB; now he cannot. When I witnessed him getting jammed at the line, he was done. Early in his career he was great at beating the jam and that resulted in some nice red zone TD's.

Wayne Simmons was the best LB I've ever seen at jamming the TE at the line and eliminating him from the play.

Even when he was suppose to go out, Bubba has been eliminated too much lately.

[RashanGary]

B, Sherms last 2 years as GM we had one starter at each position and we just crossed our fingers he didn't go down. You just pointed out the two worste positions for depth and 3 years ago that was our whole team and we went 10-6.

[Bretsky]

I'm also concerned Spitz is overrated in here

[Bretsky]

B, Sherms last 2 years as GM we had one starter at each position and we just crossed our fingers he didn't go down. You just pointed out the two worste positions for depth and 3 years ago that was our whole team and we went 10-6.

Sherman did us no favors depth wise; but Sherman would never lose his playmakers. Javon Walker was more important to GB's success than anybody is willing to admit.

[RashanGary]

I think there is a lot of misplaced blame. I truely believe that the O Line was the single biggest reason our offense sucked last year.

Again, Minny's guys laughed at us, saying we were weak. We just pure plain and simple sucked at everythign about blocking.

If that group improves I believe it's going to be a domino effect.

[RashanGary]

I'm also concerned Spitz is overrated in here

We'll certainly see. If those guys don't improve, and improve a lot I'd bet we fall flat on or faces on offense.

I think those guys are hard workers and smart guys but just needed strength. I'm a bit of an optimist but I think they are going to be a strength of this team much like Tauch and Cliffy 7 years ago in their second years.

[the_idle_threat]

I wonder how much of our thoughts toward Bubba are colored by his horrid play in the second Minnesota game, when he almost lost the game singlehandedly. It was a poor image to leave us with, and perhaps we think he's "finished" despite the facts.

Bubba just turned 29 a few months ago, which makes him a year younger than Randy Moss and many years younger than Me-shawn Johnson. He never was the "burner" type who could lose his speed and become ordinary overnight. Maybe he's got a comeback in him. It's no less possible than a comeback from Randy Moss.

[Bretsky]

I wonder how much of our thoughts toward Bubba are colored by his horrid play in the second Minnesota game, when he almost lost the game singlehandedly. It was a poor image to leave us with, and perhaps we think he's "finished" despite the facts.

Bubba just turned 29 a few months ago, which makes him a year younger than Randy Moss and many years younger than Me-shawn Johnson. He never was the "burner" type who could lose his speed and become ordinary overnight. Maybe he's got a comeback in him. It's no less possible than a comeback from Randy Moss.

Not me; the quality of Buba's play has been fading for a couple years not. Still a good blocker though

[HarveyWallbangers]

I'm also concerned Spitz is overrated in here

Could be, but he played well enough as a rookie. (He wasn't William Whitticker.) Plus, he has to beat out Moll and Barbre for the starting gig. Competition should be good here.

[MJZiggy]

What are they gonna do with Kevin Barry?

[Bretsky]

I'm also concerned Spitz is overrated in here

Could be, but he played well enough as a rookie. (He wasn't William Whitticker.) Plus, he has to beat out Moll and Barbre for the starting gig. Competition should be good here.


Any starters there ?

[HarveyWallbangers]

Sherman did us no favors depth wise; but Sherman would never lose his playmakers. Javon Walker was more important to GB's success than anybody is willing to admit.

Like Mike McKenzie? I think the whole McKenzie situation is what drove the Walker situation, personally.

[Bretsky]

I'm also concerned Spitz is overrated in here

Could be, but he played well enough as a rookie. (He wasn't William Whitticker.) Plus, he has to beat out Moll and Barbre for the starting gig. Competition should be good here.


Any starters there ?


I just don't see this OL as being deep like you Harvey. I see them as a bunch of developing players that are not ready yet. Maybe they will be someday, maybe not.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Any starters there ?

Why not? They were serviceable last year. You don't think they have a shot at improving even more?

[the_idle_threat]

Bubba's had a couple of down years, which coincide with major problems in the O-line which led to a heavier blocking load on Bubba. On the plus side, the O-line projects to be better. On the minus side, David Martin developed into a good blocker and was able to share the blocking load in years past (when healthy). Now the load shifts entirely to Bubba, or at least it appears so at this point.

[HarveyWallbangers]

It's not deep. It will probably go about 7 deep is all, but those 7 have a lot of flexibility. Clifton goes down, Colledge can kick out to LT and Moll can go to LG. Tauscher or Spitz goes down, and Moll can start there. Wells goes down, and Spitz can kick inside to OC and Moll can start at RG. Barbre should help the situation. I really like the guy, and I wouldn't be surprised if he provides good depth his rookie year--like last year's batch of rookies.

[RashanGary]

I thought they were laughable last year, so did McCarthy with his pass pro and so did Minny with their....um.laughter.

I think they made Bubba look bad, I think they made Favre look worse than he is and even though I'm not too sad to see Green go I think they made him look worse than he was.

The whole offense sputtered becuase they couldn't do any phase of the game right and when they got in the redzone; when they had to run it because the field is shortened and there is less room to pass, they NEVER got a push. One of them would have been servicable but the fact that 2 rooks had to play every game killed us IMO.

I don't think they are doomed. If they come back and they are in GREAT shape then I think there is a chance that they don't get dominated. I get a good feeling about the commitment and work ethic of those guys so just as a gut check I think they both, if not all 3, make giant leaps.

[the_idle_threat]

With an offseason of work and a year of playing time together, this line should be good right now. Maybe it takes another year or two for them to be great, but how many teams have a line that is truly great? Perhaps we were spoiled by the great line we had 3-4 years ago. The offense can function well with guys who are servicable. You can't have Pro-Bowlers at every position.

[HarveyWallbangers]

2005 was laughable. They were serviceable last year. Not all of the blame can be pinned on them. Favre has to take some also. He's not the QB he used to be. Considering that all of the RBs averaged over 4 yards/carry, the QB was seldom sacked (some of that is Favre and some of it is protection), the fact Tauscher missed a bunch of games and Clifton was nicked up, and the fact that they had 3 first time, full-time starters, I was surprised.

[RashanGary]

I think McCArthy adjusted better than Sherm. Had Sherm put 7 guys in pass pro, I'll bet it wouldn't have been what it was.

Regardless, I think they were a major weakness. I do think they are 3 of the top 5 or 6 guys on this whole team who stand teh best chance to improve.

I think the Offense will be pretty good and the biggest reason, IMO, will be the improvement of Spitz, Colledge, Moll *depth* and Jennings. I see all of these guys as "core" guys; similar to Tauch, Clifton, Wahle and Driver like Sherman inherited. They're just starting to hit their stride. I think it could be a good year.

[run pMc]

The overall OL performance will be improved this year.
Last year's rookies aren't rookies anymore, they have a year of the ZBS under their belts, they've had a chance to play together as a unit, and they will have had an offseason in the weight room (all the coaches agreed they needed to get stronger).
I also think their play improved from Game 1 to Game 16. I'm glad TT drafted another guy here -- I think the OL depth is a little thin.

just my opinions.

[run pMc]

As far as Minny's players laughing at the OL -- well, they didn't exactly kill us with their 100 million dollar OL, did they?

Who swept who last year? Thought so.

[RashanGary]

As far as Minny's players laughing at the OL -- well, they didn't exactly kill us with their 100 million dollar OL, did they?

Who swept who last year? Thought so.

I think it backed up what common sense would tell you which is that rookie lineman are not as strong as their veteran counterparts and often struggle because they cannot physically complete with the best of the best.

I think they were pretty bad. That said, they played solid as far as technique but they just weren't strong enough to do what they wanted to do. I think all 3 are pretty good players and IF they had the off season that we all hope they had; they'll change this offense.