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Bretsky
05-05-2007, 06:28 AM
Ode to a Turtle

Season will test Thompson's convictions
Posted: May 2, 2007


Bud Lea
E-MAIL

It isn't hard to argue that Ted Thompson has a special eye for talent. Last year he drafted rookies and signed free agents who stepped right in and made an immediate impact.

It isn't hard at all to make the case that Thompson knew what he was doing when he took over Mike Sherman's aging team three years ago and started rebuilding. He didn't make wholesale changes just for the sake of making wholesales changes. He has steadily improved the talent level.

Looking at what he did, you search for some answers, and you inevitably come up with this: confidence. It is what defines the general manager of the Green Bay Packers.

So much has changed, but Thompson's insistence on doing it his way - despite all the outside shouting - remains the cornerstone at 1265 Lombardi Ave.

There was a buzz in Green Bay that with another strong draft, the Packers would ascend to the playoffs like last year's New Orleans Saints.

The Packers had obvious needs. They needed a running back to step in where Ahman Green stepped out. They needed a home run wide receiver. They needed a tight end. A fullback.

So, who did they pick first? A nose tackle.

All I know is, this Justin Harrell guy had better be the bomb, whoever he is. He'd better throw around blockers like a bar bouncer, sandblast gaps for A.J. Hawk to storm through and assume the disrupted appearances of a Gilbert Brown.

Because if he turns out to be the next Donnell Washington or Cletidus Hunt or the next Packer bust, which is never beyond the realm of possibility, fans will never forgive Thompson.

The selection of Harrell was met with some puzzlement, some cautious, muted approval, and for the first time in recent history, a chorus of howling outrage from fans.

The puzzlement: There were a number of impact players and potential game-breakers still on the board, not the least of which were wide receivers Dwayne Bowe and Robert Meachem and tight end Greg Olsen. All were taken in the first round.

The muted approval: Both sides of the ball are basic building blocks in football. Some scouts say Harrell is the real deal. Thompson said Harrell is the sort of quality defensive player who you can't afford to pass up.

The howling outrage: Nose tackle? They took a nose tackle? They used the 16th pick in the draft to pick a two-gap nose tackle? Not only that, they learned later that Justin Harrell's play last season at Tennessee was limited to three games because of a torn biceps tendon.

So which is it, a brilliant masterstroke or boneheaded idiocy? Have the Packers seen what eluded others? Or have they chosen unwisely, and will they pay an enormous price in the process?

Well, here's what we know for sure: We don't know.

I don't know, you don't know.

And the reason none of us knows is that we cannot see the future.

Who among us has seen Justin Harrell play one season?

One game?

One snap?

Harrell might turn out to be a great nose tackle. Or he might turn out to be fat and slow. Or he might turn out to be somewhere in between.

But to repeat, nobody knows for sure. And nobody will know for a few years.

That is what makes the draft intriguing and frustrating. It's a crapshoot. It is the projections of people based on possible potential. For those who do it for a living, it isn't completely guesswork, but it's close.

As general manager, Thompson is paid to know more than the rest of us. And it is his apparent viewpoint that Harrell, a 6-4 ½, 314-pound medicine ball of a defensive tackle, is a smart investment.

I'll assume Thompson isn't bothered by the fact that Harrell's résumé includes a heavy list of injuries in high school and college. I'll also assume he sees something special beneath it all because he's Ted Thompson and he loves building his defenses.

But he can't deny he is gambling here.

Perhaps the hit-miss for a nose tackle is much better than for a quarterback or a running back. But the excitement level is much lower.

Eleven new draft choices are coming to Green Bay, including Brandon Jackson, an undersized running back who had injury problems of his own at Nebraska. Harrell is the key.

He will blossom in Green Bay, or he won't.

So welcome to the madhouse, young man.

We were criticizing Nick Barnett when the Packers took him in the first round of the 2003 draft. Too small to play middle linebacker, we figured, and look how he turned out.

Don't take it personally that Green Bay fans greeted your selection with a certain hostility just because you were not a running back or wide receiver - a playmaker who could help a struggling offense and take some of the load off Brett Favre.

Thompson did not go out and get a big running back. He did not go out and get a game-breaking wide receiver. He did not put together an attractive offer to get Randy Moss.

Instead, he worked on building up his defense and stockpiling younger players. The fans essentially yawned. Thompson didn't care that the fans yawned. And so it goes.

There is never a hint that Thompson is not confident in his evaluation of the situation and the solution he has put together.

We'll see if his confidence is well-founded when the 2007 season begins.

Send e-mail to buddylea.aol.com

Fritz
05-05-2007, 06:59 AM
As weird as this draft was, I take comfort from the fact that TT's picks seem kinda oddball to me. Why do I take comfort from this? Well, because to me it simply means that, if nothing else, TT stayed true to his draft board. And as Ron Wolf and TT (and other GM's) have said, the worst thing a GM can do is stray from the draft board that the team has set up. Thompson said last year (I think it was last year) that picking for need and thus straying from the draft board resulted in Seattle's picking of Jeramy Stevens a few years back. Wolf has said repeatedly that he strayed from his board when he reached for Jamaal Reynolds back in '01.

So although Ted's picks seem kinda weird, they clearly reflect the months and months of scouting that the Packer scouting department does, and not the sudden whims of a GM that is trying to plug holes with big names.


For example, when you look at Dwayne Jarrett and James Jones, one would have been regarded as a stellar pick had he fallen to the Pack in the second round, while the other is being dissed as a reach in the third. However, the two are similar kinds of receivers- Jarrett more polished at this point, but it'll be interesting to see how they compare in three years.

So I'll wait and see how these picks turn out, and take some comfort from Ted's weird picks.

Bretsky
05-05-2007, 07:23 AM
funny that my most accounts people say the Packers got a steal with the round 5 WR and were robbed by reaching in round 3 as well.

RashanGary
05-05-2007, 07:34 AM
funny that my most accounts people say the Packers got a steal with the round 5 WR and were robbed by reaching in round 3 as well.

Huh, McCarren saw them all in person yesterday adn he said Jones stood out as the best of the bunch. He saw them play snap for snap right next to each other so he had the advantage of direct comparison.

esoxx
05-05-2007, 11:23 AM
Damn straight. This season will indeed test TT's mettle. I applaud him for having core convictions and staying true to them. He has a plan and should follow HIS plan, no one else's. I like that in a GM.

Now, I might not necessarily like his strategies and how he goes about player procurement, but that really doesn't matter. What matters is, does his way succeed and work out in the end.

We will see.

We will see if Jones is a chump or a player.

We will see if Harrell can stay healthy and be the dominant DT we've never had.

We will see whether Ted's plan works or doesn't.

I will not blindly cheerlead or rationalize along the way. I will call it as I see it.

The bottom line is:

TT's either a stinkin' genius or he's in over his head. I don't see any middle ground on this one.

Let's hope for the former scenario to be revealed when we look back in '09.

On that we can all be united in opinion as Packer fans.

GrnBay007
05-05-2007, 11:57 AM
The bottom line is:

TT's either a stinkin' genius or he's in over his head. I don't see any middle ground on this one.

Let's hope for the former scenario to be revealed when we look back in '09.

On that we can all be united in opinion as Packer fans.

True! Let's also hope we can look back and see that Favre got what he deserves....another run!! :cow:

oregonpackfan
05-05-2007, 01:11 PM
For some of those positions it will take several years to see how they pan out. WR's, in particular, need at least 2 years before they can successfully learn a complicated pro offensive scheme.

Charles Woodson
05-05-2007, 01:38 PM
Damn straight. This season will indeed test TT's mettle. I applaud him for having core convictions and staying true to them. He has a plan and should follow HIS plan, no one else's. I like that in a GM.

Now, I might not necessarily like his strategies and how he goes about player procurement, but that really doesn't matter. What matters is, does his way succeed and work out in the end.

We will see.

We will see if Jones is a chump or a player.

We will see if Harrell can stay healthy and be the dominant DT we've never had.

We will see whether Ted's plan works or doesn't.

I will not blindly cheerlead or rationalize along the way. I will call it as I see it.

The bottom line is:

TT's either a stinkin' genius or he's in over his head. I don't see any middle ground on this one.

Let's hope for the former scenario to be revealed when we look back in '09.

On that we can all be united in opinion as Packer fans.

Exactly how i am, thats the thing, im not going to trust TT, i want him to have to work and prove himself

The Shadow
05-05-2007, 02:11 PM
Hmmmm.
Doesn't every GM get judged on the draft picks he makes?
Or is Thompson the only one?
Just asking.....

RashanGary
05-05-2007, 02:17 PM
I trust Thompson becuase of

A. His success here the first time
B. His success in Seattle
C. His success in cleaning up the horrible cap situation with only one real down year
D. His success in last years draft and in FA which was as good as possible in both departments
E. His spoken commitment to value and building the most talent with the cap space avaiable and his patients to do it right because I beleive it requires patients to build a team.


Blind trust would be just saying "he's GM, so I believe"

Taking his history and his approach and connecting it to what you yourself believe based on your experience following football and your basic understsanding of value as it relates to a set budget or in this case the "salary cap" or the "draft" is different than blind trust. It's educated opinion that leads to confidence in his approach and ability. That is where I stand.

woodbuck27
05-05-2007, 03:10 PM
I won't give a man blind trust when his team finished 12-20 over his first two seasons. He has to earn my trust.

Will he get there is measured in these questions among others:

1. How well will the Packers finish in 2007?

2. How will our team play on both sides of the ball?

3. How competitive will we be against all other teams?

4. How often will we get blownout?

Fritz
05-05-2007, 03:28 PM
The team needs to be competetive this year. I don't know what record that might mean - not 5 - 11 I don't think, but that's all I can say about that - but my benchmark is the end of the 2008 season. If Ted doesn't have them playing fiercely and making a run to the playoffs - not one of those 8-8 deals like last year, I mean a real run - then I say he can try for 2009. If the team though is floundering and in over its head in '08, then Ted will be packing his bags, I think.

Of course, in my dream scenario the Pack makes a strong push for the playoffs this year - in my dreams they go like 10 - 6 - and then Favre comes back once more in 2008 and the Packers win the Super Bowl.

Ah. That would be nice.

Bretsky
05-05-2007, 04:33 PM
Hmmmm.
Doesn't every GM get judged on the draft picks he makes?
Or is Thompson the only one?
Just asking.....


Would you rather have us judge him on his free agent signings this year :lol:

The Shadow
05-05-2007, 11:14 PM
Hmmmm.
Doesn't every GM get judged on the draft picks he makes?
Or is Thompson the only one?
Just asking.....


Would you rather have us judge him on his free agent signings this year :lol:

Or maybe the free agent signings he DIDN'T make?
Overpaying for so-so talent does not make a great GM.

RashanGary
05-06-2007, 08:05 AM
I agree Shadow. He locked Barnett up for less than any of the big name FA's and Barnett is arguably the best or second best in the entire FA crop.

I also think locking Jenkins up is going to look great over the test of time.



There is only one way to fit more talent under the cap than your opposition and that is by having a very good feel for the quality and relative value of talent in the NFL and conducting your personal decisions as such. It doesn't mean "never use FA" and Thompson has shown us he's not that guy as he signed 2 of the bigger FA's last season. Thompson seems to have a good feel for this part of the game. Because of this, he's going to continue to have the flexibility to make the right decisions when the oppertunities arise. IF we dreft well we're going to continue to be able to keep all of our impact players and over time we will have more than anyone else because while they are getting hammered with the salary cap and losing talent we'll just keep getting better. Not at all disimilar to NE this year, SEA last year and PHI when they signed Ownes and Kearse because they are very good and still have the room to blow $$.

Joemailman
05-06-2007, 08:12 AM
For some of those positions it will take several years to see how they pan out. WR's, in particular, need at least 2 years before they can successfully learn a complicated pro offensive scheme.

Sometimes. Javon Walker didn't become a productive player until the second half of his second season. Jennings on the other hand seemed to pick things up more quickly.

prsnfoto
05-06-2007, 08:36 AM
Hmmmm.
Doesn't every GM get judged on the draft picks he makes?
Or is Thompson the only one?
Just asking.....


Would you rather have us judge him on his free agent signings this year :lol:

Might have to hang him high then. I was thinking about this last night as i watched the Brewers play and what an impact Suppan has had for them he is a winner and a great clubhouse presence the young guys are amazed at his vigor in batting practice. Let me say I know there is a difference between football and BB but Suppan is no Reggie White and yet he has had a huge impact in this early season as our young guys from within continue to develop into stars. But ask any TT lover on this board and they will tell you he is wasting a roster spot for a young guy because as you know ONE guy can't win you a SB only guys you draft can do that.

RashanGary
05-06-2007, 08:52 AM
But ask any TT lover on this board and they will tell you he is wasting a roster spot for a young guy because as you know ONE guy can't win you a SB only guys you draft can do that.

I don't remember any Thompson supporter saying that, ever.

I'm a huge Thompson supporter and I was happy with the Supan signing.

Also, I've never heard a TT supporter say that they would never want a free agent. Acctually, one of Thompsons best moves since being GM was a FA move with Woodson. The Brewers are acctually pretty on par with what Thompson is doing and they seem pretty successfull.

prsnfoto
05-06-2007, 09:16 AM
But ask any TT lover on this board and they will tell you he is wasting a roster spot for a young guy because as you know ONE guy can't win you a SB only guys you draft can do that.

I don't remember any Thompson supporter saying that, ever.

I'm a huge Thompson supporter and I was happy with the Supan signing.

Also, I've never heard a TT supporter say that they would never want a free agent. Acctually, one of Thompsons best moves since being GM was a FA move with Woodson. The Brewers are acctually pretty on par with what Thompson is doing and they seem pretty successfull.

I was being somewhat harsh but all you need to do is refer to any thread about Moss,Keyshawn, or the scores of TE,Safeties,FB and RB's to hear the excuses, he's a prick,he's too old, he is just a guy, blah blah blah.And many have said the don't want to give a young guy's roster spot to a vet. I can understand TT methods but i have said from the start you need a mix of both and I think the one thing all the huge supporters forget is that once Favre is done it will probably be another 3 years of suckness unless another Brees type guy falls into our laps or Rodgers surprises.

LaFours
05-06-2007, 09:18 AM
I'm of the opinion that Green Bay needs a GM who is highly proficient in the draft process. Time and again we have heard about Free Agents who wouldn't consider GB simply because of its geographical location. Now i'm not saying every Free Agent out there is going to make a decision based upon the location of the franchises pursuing his services, but when you are able to admit that this has been a roadblock for our franchise and will continue to be from time to time, it becomes apparent that our GM will have to use the draft as his primary tool to build up the franchise. Until we have some special mojo happening on the field, Free Agents aren't going to think of GB as their first option, that is unless you throw a ton of money their way, but then we're back to digging our salary cap grave...just my opinion.

Patler
05-06-2007, 09:29 AM
What many "TT supporters", including myself, have said is that to build a winning team that will be more than a one or two year wonder, you first need to build a strong base, THEN go after specific FAs to push it over the top, perhaps even overpaying for those key FAs.

That is exactly the position the Brewers were in this past off season, a very strong, talented and youthful roster that needed another quality starter and could benefit from a strong veteran leader. The Brewers probably overpaid for Suppan, a career .500 pitcher who never won more than 16 games in a season and who's 5 highest win seasons are 16, 16, 13, 12 and 10. But that's OK, he could be a key to the season.

The Packers are not yet at that point. They could be next off season, or the year after. In the mean time, I'm happy to see them be a bit more cautious, fill a few immediate gaps like they did with Pickett and Woodson last year, improve the roster through the draft, and go for broke when they get closer than they are now.

People tend to overlook the need to reserve cap space to resign your own young players, and the Packers now have a lot of them. The signings of Franks, Wells, Kampman, Jenkins and Barnett with 2005, 2006 and 2007 salary cap money is no different than signing someone else's FA. These guys would have been among the more interesting FAs at the time they would have hit the market. Williams is still hanging out there.

Next off season appears to be a window during which the Packers will again have a lot of cap room, but may not have a lot of their own players to re-sign (a legacy from the last couple Sherman drafts). It could be the optimal time to go after outside FAs, before Tauscher's and Clifton's contracts run out and and before the rookie contracts of TT's draft picks run out.

RashanGary
05-06-2007, 10:03 AM
All SB teams need legit playmakers.

Green, Favre, Walker for one year, Sharper when he was in his prime...

We were pretty close at one time.


Now,

Hawk, Harrell, Jennings, Kampman, Woodson, Barnett, Favre, Driver


- If Favre has his body right he could still be a playmaker.
- Hawk stands a good chance to take a big second year leap
- Jennings showed enough promise where it's not out of the realm of possiblity that he be a probowl guy
- Driver probably has one or 2 more years to be a big time guy
- Woodson could still get 5 or 6 picks for 2 or 3 years
- Kampman has 5 good years left
- Harrell we just don't know but it will probably be year 2 that he breaks out
- With the tough line, Barnetts stregths could really shne

We have some guys that could be probowl guys. We just don't know yet.


We have a couple positions that look like possible holes. Safety, #3 CB, #3 WR, RB, FB, TE

We might be able to scratch a couple of those from the lest like #3 WR, RB, TE if Bubba looks like the Bubba of old instead of just old, ect...





It is possible that we go into next year and we have a lot more answers than questions. We have a couple young guys step up and make the probowl and maybe Harrell looks an off season away from exploding. There are too many risks right now to jsut take a blind shot and hope it all comes together but next year there might be enough answers wehre you can say "WE're just a patch here and a touch of improvement there away from being legit".

We'll see but everything seems to be going in the right direction. We just need to see this eyar play out and see how good some of these core guys are.

RashanGary
05-06-2007, 10:10 AM
Nice point on the older core Patler. We have a group held over from Wolf that is just about ready to go over the hill. We might have 2 years left before we have to replace those guys. It might be a good time next year to take that last shot IF the new young core steps up and makes that possible.

HarveyWallbangers
05-06-2007, 11:16 AM
I'm of the opinion that Green Bay needs a GM who is highly proficient in the draft process. Time and again we have heard about Free Agents who wouldn't consider GB simply because of its geographical location. Now i'm not saying every Free Agent out there is going to make a decision based upon the location of the franchises pursuing his services, but when you are able to admit that this has been a roadblock for our franchise and will continue to be from time to time, it becomes apparent that our GM will have to use the draft as his primary tool to build up the franchise. Until we have some special mojo happening on the field, Free Agents aren't going to think of GB as their first option, that is unless you throw a ton of money their way, but then we're back to digging our salary cap grave...just my opinion.

Good point. Seems we have to overspend for many already overpriced FAs just to get them to think about coming here. That will likely get worse after Favre leaves.

MJZiggy
05-06-2007, 11:47 AM
Good point. Seems we have to overspend for many already overpriced FAs just to get them to think about coming here. That will likely get worse after Favre leaves.

Not if some winning starts happening in the meantime.

Chester Marcol
05-07-2007, 03:15 PM
Good point. Seems we have to overspend for many already overpriced FAs just to get them to think about coming here. That will likely get worse after Favre leaves.

Not if some winning starts happening in the meantime.

And you need to go no further back than the Moss deal. If roles were reversed and it was the Pack on the brink of the SB last year, who do you think Moss would have been restructuring his pay for? Winning cures a lot of ills.

PackerBlues
05-07-2007, 03:26 PM
What many "TT supporters", including myself, have said is that to build a winning team that will be more than a one or two year wonder, you first need to build a strong base, THEN go after specific FAs to push it over the top, perhaps even overpaying for those key FAs.




One could argue that Sherman already had that "strong base" in place, and he was going after specific FA's to push them over the top. heh heh....he may have even "over payed" a few "key FA's".

I of coarse am not about to argue that point though. I think its been gone over enough. :beat:

HarveyWallbangers
05-07-2007, 04:05 PM
One could argue that Sherman already had that "strong base" in place

Only tank would argue that.

mraynrand
05-07-2007, 07:13 PM
What many "TT supporters", including myself, have said is that to build a winning team that will be more than a one or two year wonder, you first need to build a strong base, THEN go after specific FAs to push it over the top, perhaps even overpaying for those key FAs.

People tend to overlook the need to reserve cap space to resign your own young players, and the Packers now have a lot of them. The signings of Franks, Wells, Kampman, Jenkins and Barnett with 2005, 2006 and 2007 salary cap money is no different than signing someone else's FA.

I think you make solid points.

What you need more than anything else is to be right about your draft picks. Look at the Packers over the past long term run of success. They only had a small handful of great players - Favre, White, Butler, Green, maybe Walker. All TT needs for success is to build a base of solid players with his draft depth and then either strike it rich - get some impact players - by having 2-3 draft picks emerge as top tier, all pro candidates (Hawk, for example).

About the FA/or trade route - that's the big question right? I don't really think in today's NFL, with the different tags, that you're going to get the great impact player with a FA signing. more likely you'll find experienced role players. If you're lucky - or skillfull in FA - you'll get a Rodney Harrison that can glue your team together. But that's as much coaching as anything else.

draft picks will have to emerge.

And if anyone cares, I don't really think TT has any hidden motive about Favre - I suspect he's happy Favre is around to guide the team through a down turn as he tries to rebuild the roster. My guess is that TT looked at the Packers in 2005 and figured there was no way he could begin to mortgage the future to put together an immediate winner and so stayed with his program. People seem to be so intense about their desire to see Favre get another ring (myself included) that they tend to overlook the realities of the roster. People also continue to forget (it seems to me) that TT was a rookie GM in 2005 - so he too has to learn the ropes, especially in figuring out to best use free agency.

mraynrand
05-07-2007, 07:19 PM
One could argue that Sherman already had that "strong base" in place

Only tank would argue that.

I would argue that Sherman found some good guys, but sacrificed overall depth to do so.

The Shadow
05-07-2007, 07:46 PM
Sherman's 'strong base' was a team headed down a greased slide to oblivion.

retailguy
05-07-2007, 07:58 PM
Sherman's 'strong base' was a team headed down a greased slide to oblivion.

But what a fun ride it was.


Now, we are treading water in the quicksand.... Yep, thats A LOT more fun. :wink:

HarveyWallbangers
05-07-2007, 09:35 PM
Sherman was given a strong base. He supplemented it with a few solid players. Then, the guys that Wolf acquired got old.

Bretsky
05-07-2007, 09:40 PM
Sherman was given a strong base. He supplemented it with a few solid players. Then, the guys that Wolf acquired got old.


I've said many times Sherman was a below average GM; but now that I've witnessed some of his draft picks develop into solid players, he's not nearly as bad as I once thought.

Joemailman
05-07-2007, 09:41 PM
Sherman's 'strong base' was a team headed down a greased slide to oblivion.

But what a fun ride it was.


Now, we are treading water in the quicksand.... Yep, thats A LOT more fun. :wink:

Treading water?!:crazy: We won 4 more games in 2006 than in 2005. :mrgreen: :cow:

retailguy
05-07-2007, 09:42 PM
Sherman's 'strong base' was a team headed down a greased slide to oblivion.

But what a fun ride it was.


Now, we are treading water in the quicksand.... Yep, thats A LOT more fun. :wink:

Treading water?!:crazy: We won 4 more games in 2006 than in 2005. :mrgreen: :cow:


Wait 'till week 6 of this season... :wink: Hope I'm wrong! Really.

HarveyWallbangers
05-07-2007, 09:51 PM
Sherman was given a strong base. He supplemented it with a few solid players. Then, the guys that Wolf acquired got old.

I've said many times Sherman was a below average GM; but now that I've witnessed some of his draft picks develop into solid players, he's not nearly as bad as I once thought.

Two guys from the 2004 draft are still in the league: Corey Williams and Scott Wells. Well, if you don't count B.J. Sander. That draft included Donnell Washington, Sander, Ahmad Carroll, and Joey Thomas. That was pathetic.

Two guys from the 2003 draft class are still in the league: Nick Barnett and Hunter Hillenmeyer (average starter for the Bears). That draft included James Lee and Kenny Peterson. That was pathetic.

Those two drafts set this franchise on the downward spiral.

He may or may not have been primarily responsible for 2001--which was another pathetic bunch.

The 2002 draft wasn't terrible. Only got two guys that have been starters most of their career, but they were two good ones in Javon and Kampman.

Still. Who took over your account? Sander. Donnell Washington. Batman Carroll. Joey Thomas. James Lee. Kenny Peterson. Marques Anderson. Think about what you're saying man.
:D

Bretsky
05-07-2007, 09:54 PM
Sherman was given a strong base. He supplemented it with a few solid players. Then, the guys that Wolf acquired got old.

I've said many times Sherman was a below average GM; but now that I've witnessed some of his draft picks develop into solid players, he's not nearly as bad as I once thought.

Two guys from the 2004 draft are still in the league: Corey Williams and Scott Wells. Well, if you don't count B.J. Sander. That draft included Donnell Washington, Sander, Ahmad Carroll, and Joey Thomas. That was pathetic.

Two guys from the 2003 draft class are still in the league: Nick Barnett and Hunter Hillenmeyer (average starter for the Bears). That draft included James Lee and Kenny Peterson. That was pathetic.

Those two drafts set this franchise on the downward spiral.

He may or may not have been primarily responsible for 2001--which was another pathetic bunch.

The 2002 draft wasn't terrible. Only got two guys that have been starters most of their career, but they were two good ones in Javon and Kampman.

Still. Who took over your account? Sander. Donnell Washington. Batman Carroll. Joey Thomas. James Lee. Kenny Peterson. Marques Anderson. Think about what you're saying man.
:D

Maybe my turtle like depression is making the Sherminator look better.

But I think I counted about a dozen players he brought in still in the NFL from 02, 03, and 04

The Shadow
05-07-2007, 09:57 PM
Mike Sherman was no Jack Kennedy, Senator.

RashanGary
05-07-2007, 10:06 PM
Wait 'till week 6 of this season... :wink: Hope I'm wrong! Really.

I just hope you're here, houdini :)

Last year you pulled a pretty impressive disappearing act when things were going well. You did show up just in time for Free Agency. Fan despeperation is an easy thing to manipulate. You do it well ;)

retailguy
05-07-2007, 10:10 PM
Wait 'till week 6 of this season... :wink: Hope I'm wrong! Really.

I just hope you're here, houdini :)

Last year you pulled a pretty impressive disappearing act when things were going well. You did show up just in time for Free Agency. Fan despeperation is an easy thing to manipulate. You do it well ;)


What are you talking about? I was here. I have yet to disappear, rest assured, I'll be here, talking it up with you....

Maybe I'll even send you a postcard. :wink:

FWIW, I lost over 500 posts in the 2 month disappearing act... when the site crashed! I was here!!!