Favre criticizes Packers' failed attempt at trading for Moss

[packers11]

http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=604780

Favre criticizes Packers' failed attempt at trading for Moss
By TOM SILVERSTEIN
tsilverstein@journalsentinel.com
Posted: May 12, 2007
In quarterback Brett Favre's mind, the Green Bay Packers could have obtained wide receiver Randy Moss.

"I know what we could have signed him for," Favre told Memphis television station WMC-TV at his annual charity golf tournament Saturday in Tunica, Miss. "We could have gotten him for less money than New England did. He wanted to play in Green Bay for the amount of money we could have paid him. It (was) well worth the risk."

Moss, who was once represented by Favre's agent, James "Bus" Cook, and still has ties to him, was on the trading block before the NFL draft. The Packers and Patriots were the two teams seeking a deal with the Oakland Raiders for Moss' services.

On the night before the draft, the Packers thought they had a deal with the Raiders for a fifth-round pick, but New England stepped in and began making a strong pitch for Moss. Quarterback Tom Brady reportedly spent hours on the phone recruiting Moss, who eventually agreed to a one-year contract with the Patriots.

New England topped Green Bay's offer with a fourth-round pick. The Packers, sources said, weren't given the chance to increase their offer to the Raiders or Moss, although it's questionable whether general manager Ted Thompson would have done either. They were also offering a two-year contract, which wasn't ideal to Moss.

Favre talked with Moss several times leading up to the draft, but he apparently wasn't as convincing as Brady. Still, Favre thinks the Packers could have gotten Moss.

"The last thing I want to do is start anything," Favre said Saturday. "But I think he would have been a great addition. You throw Randy Moss, you throw Donald Driver and you throw Greg Jennings on the field at the same time, and go three-wide receiver set, I think it's pretty intimidating. And we lost out on that, and it's a shame because I know we could have had him."

Favre hasn't spoken to the media since undergoing left ankle surgery after the season, so it was unclear until Saturday how he viewed the Moss dealings and the draft class Thompson added. Coach Mike McCarthy expects Favre to attend a mandatory three-day minicamp beginning Friday, although the quarterback is not expected to take part in practice.

It's not known whether he will address the media during the camp.

In the interview at his golf tournament, Favre said his ankle was doing well.

"I had surgery in February; I could have played the following week - against doctors orders, but I could have played," Favre said. "Rehab's going fine, but everything's up to par right now. I think people who know me, know I will be ready.

"Am I ready at this moment? Probably not quite, but I will get myself ready and I think as they found out in the past, I will do everything I can do to help this team win."

Favre admitted he's not fired up about coming to minicamp, but he said the Packers can expect him to be the same guy he's always been.

"Do I feel like going to training camp and minicamp?" Favre said. "Most of the time no. But I still love to play and I think there are a lot of guys who have retired or have been let go that still love to play but don't feel they can, and I still feel I can play at a high level.

"I love to compete and I love to win and I would hate to give it up and say, 'I could be doing that.' So that's why I'm back."

[b bulldog]

Many in here were opposed to the potential Moss trade so those people should be glad that Brett isn't the GM. I was on the fence and could see both sides but he is a helluva talent but also comes with great baggage. Personally, I could care less what any player thinks about a potential signing or a potential trade, the players are paid to play and the GM is paid to make the personel decisions. All things being CLOSE TO EQUAL,Moss would have chosen the Pats simply because of where they are in terms of potentially winning a championship.

[The Leaper]

If the Packer offense falters this season again, it is on Thompson. I think the evidence is pretty clear that Thompson was counting on getting Moss...felt good about getting him...but let it all get away by not aggressively wrapping it up prior to the draft.

Now, we are sitting on $9M in cap space...with no options out there to give Favre another offensive weapon who can help short term until some of the kids become veterans.

This will be Favre's last year in Green Bay...so enjoy it.

[Bretsky]

"I know what we could have signed him for," Favre told Memphis television station WMC-TV at his annual charity golf tournament Saturday in Tunica, Miss. "We could have gotten him for less money than New England did. He wanted to play in Green Bay for the amount of money we could have paid him. It (was) well worth the risk."


No surprises here from me; I never bought for one second a favorable deal for Green Bay could not have been worked out. It's just the most favorable way to excuse TT from not landing him.

TT just didn't want to part ways with anything more than a 5th; who knows if he was right or wrong. We can all have our own views on that.

[Bretsky]

On the night before the draft, the Packers thought they had a deal with the Raiders for a fifth-round pick, but New England stepped in and began making a strong pitch for Moss. Quarterback Tom Brady reportedly spent hours on the phone recruiting Moss, who eventually agreed to a one-year contract with the Patriots.


I HAVE A HARD TIME UNDERSTANDING THIS

Either you have a dam deal or you don't. If you want the player close the dam thing.

I ponder how one could say GB "thought" they had a deal in place. Either they do or do not.

Oh well, bygones :smack:

[Bretsky]

If the Packer offense falters this season again, it is on Thompson. I think the evidence is pretty clear that Thompson was counting on getting Moss...felt good about getting him...but let it all get away by not aggressively wrapping it up prior to the draft.




You deserve a clapping hands emoticon for that post. Well said

[packers11]

Maybe TT is saving Moss for next year to lure favre back :lol: :wink: ...

Moss does only have a 1 year deal... :!: :idea:

[HarveyWallbangers]

Personally, I think Thompson blew this one. His rookies better be able to contribute early. Of course, Moss could be the broken down Moss of the last 2 years, but I would have easily taken a chance considering the low cost.

[packers11]

Favre admitted he's not fired up about coming to minicamp, but he said the Packers can expect him to be the same guy he's always been.

He seems kind of depressed... I think this might be his last year, I don't think him and TT agree on the offense... :(

Personally I think Moss would have "fired him up" but o well... What is done is done...

[Brohm]

http://greenbaypressgazette.packersnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070512/PKR01/70512050/1989

Favre: Packers wouldn't pay Moss

Press-Gazette

Veteran quarterback Brett Favre isn’t happy that the Green Bay Packers didn’t trade for Oakland receiver Randy Moss, and he bluntly said so on Saturday.


“It is disappointing,” Favre told Al Jones of the Biloxi (Miss.) Sun Herald during his annual celebrity golf tournament in Tunica, Miss. “It was a done deal and the stories of how we lost him because he didn’t want to restructure his contract were not true.

“He was going to wipe his contract clean and sign for $3 million guaranteed, plus a fourth-round draft pick. That would have been a steal. But we were not willing to guarantee part of that $3 million. I even had (agent) Bus (Cook) call up there and tell them I would give up part of my salary to guarantee that part of the money. Apparently that wasn’t enough, either.”

Favre conceded he knew his comments would raise eyebrows.

“This is a first-class organization that wants to win. I want to win now,” he told Jones.

“I just want to win; maybe I see things the wrong way. I don’t want to ruffle any feathers and I want people to respect me. Sometimes I think it’s hard for them to let Brett go. They might think that we pay him a lot of money, but he still gives us the best chance to win. I’ve never been told that, but there are times when I wonder if I’m the odd man out here and they just don’t know how to tell me."

Favre, 37, knows time in running out on his NFL career.

“Our offense struggled last season. If it were not for our defense, we would not have won eight games. Right now, it’s hard to be optimistic," he told Jones.

"I’m not getting any younger and I think everyone knows that. I don’t have five years to rebuild. No one in Green Bay is saying rebuild, but it’s hard to look at where we are going and say, ‘How can they not be rebuilding?’

“I don’t know if I’ve lost faith, and I think everyone in the organization wants to win. I just don’t know if it includes me. If it’s going to be five years from now, I’m not going to be here. This is 17 years for me and I want to win.”

For more on this story, see Sunday's Green Bay Press-Gazette


- I was frustrated to that we didn't get Moss, and it did almost look like he was expecting it to go through. Imagine Jones as a 4th and Clowney as a 5th. I'm sure we will never know the entire truth. Just hard to believe TT would FUBAR this if he actually wanted Moss.

[GrnBay007]

Favre admitted he's not fired up about coming to minicamp, but he said the Packers can expect him to be the same guy he's always been.

He seems kind of depressed...

Yes, I am too!

Can you imagine how sick we will all feel if Moss has an outstanding year?

[mraynrand]

I'm depressed too. I was really looking forward to having Randy Moss show us his ass in the endzone and show us he's a real ass at press conferences, walking off the field before the game ends, running over traffic cops, etc. etc. Lovely man, that Randy Moss. I'd enjoy him farting in my face if it meant two more TDs and a possible wildcard loss - but hey that's just me - I have standards ya know.

[GrnBay007]

I'm depressed too. I was really looking forward to having Randy Moss show us his ass in the endzone and show us he's a real ass at press conferences, walking off the field before the game ends, running over traffic cops, etc. etc. Lovely man, that Randy Moss. I'd enjoy him farting in my face if it meant two more TDs and a possible wildcard loss - but hey that's just me - I have standards ya know.

NOBODY has any way of knowing how Moss would or wouldn't act or behave if he had come to GB. Things have been relatively quiet on the Moss front the last couple years....maybe he's finally grown up a bit. It's not like he's TO and is in the news every other week for his BS.

[BF4MVP]

Can you imagine how sick we will all feel WHEN Moss has an outstanding year?
Fixed..

Good job, Thompson. Way to fuck up big time...

[mraynrand]

I'm depressed too. I was really looking forward to having Randy Moss show us his ass in the endzone and show us he's a real ass at press conferences, walking off the field before the game ends, running over traffic cops, etc. etc. Lovely man, that Randy Moss. I'd enjoy him farting in my face if it meant two more TDs and a possible wildcard loss - but hey that's just me - I have standards ya know.

NOBODY has any way of knowing how Moss would or wouldn't act or behave if he had come to GB. Things have been relatively quiet on the Moss front the last couple years....maybe he's finally grown up a bit. It's not like he's TO and is in the news every other week for his BS.

Spoken like a true enabler. You could be his parole officer.

[GrnBay007]

I'm depressed too. I was really looking forward to having Randy Moss show us his ass in the endzone and show us he's a real ass at press conferences, walking off the field before the game ends, running over traffic cops, etc. etc. Lovely man, that Randy Moss. I'd enjoy him farting in my face if it meant two more TDs and a possible wildcard loss - but hey that's just me - I have standards ya know.

NOBODY has any way of knowing how Moss would or wouldn't act or behave if he had come to GB. Things have been relatively quiet on the Moss front the last couple years....maybe he's finally grown up a bit. It's not like he's TO and is in the news every other week for his BS.

Spoken like a true enabler.

LOL...not at all, but anyway..... :roll:

Wheww....sure am glad I won't be standing in front of you on Judgment Day!!

P.S. I'm one of those bad people (with no standards) that wishes Koren Robinson well with his treatment/sobriety and hopes he can return to be productive in the NFL. :shock:

[mraynrand]

I'm depressed too. I was really looking forward to having Randy Moss show us his ass in the endzone and show us he's a real ass at press conferences, walking off the field before the game ends, running over traffic cops, etc. etc. Lovely man, that Randy Moss. I'd enjoy him farting in my face if it meant two more TDs and a possible wildcard loss - but hey that's just me - I have standards ya know.

NOBODY has any way of knowing how Moss would or wouldn't act or behave if he had come to GB. Things have been relatively quiet on the Moss front the last couple years....maybe he's finally grown up a bit. It's not like he's TO and is in the news every other week for his BS.

Spoken like a true enabler.

LOL...not at all, but anyway..... :roll:

Wheww....sure am glad I won't be standing in front of you on Judgment Day!!

That's pretty much the response I expected (actually I was expecting a 'holier than thou' type of remark - but close enough). I feel pretty confident that I can make some type of judgment of Randy Moss' behavior. I find it pretty depressing actually that so many Packer fans are willing to take this guy in for what I guess might be a 1 or 2 game bump and possible playoff appearance. The guy is, among his NFL peers, a disgusting malcontent. Not as bad as some felons that are out there, but bad enough. I don't like him and am glad he's not on the Packers. I also am disappointed that Favre takes the position that he has - both in wanting Moss and in speaking out about it.

[PackerBlues]

I'm depressed too. I was really looking forward to having Randy Moss show us his ass in the endzone and show us he's a real ass at press conferences, walking off the field before the game ends, running over traffic cops, etc. etc. Lovely man, that Randy Moss. I'd enjoy him farting in my face if it meant two more TDs and a possible wildcard loss - but hey that's just me - I have standards ya know.

NOBODY has any way of knowing how Moss would or wouldn't act or behave if he had come to GB. Things have been relatively quiet on the Moss front the last couple years....maybe he's finally grown up a bit. It's not like he's TO and is in the news every other week for his BS.

Spoken like a true enabler.

LOL...not at all, but anyway..... :roll:

Wheww....sure am glad I won't be standing in front of you on Judgment Day!!

That's pretty much the response I expected (actually I was expecting a 'holier than thou' type of remark - but close enough). I feel pretty confident that I can make some type of judgment of Randy Moss' behavior. I find it pretty depressing actually that so many Packer fans are willing to take this guy in for what I guess might be a 1 or 2 game bump and possible playoff appearance. The guy is, among his NFL peers, a disgusting malcontent. Not as bad as some felons that are out there, but bad enough. I don't like him and am glad he's not on the Packers. I also am disappointed that Favre takes the position that he has - both in wanting Moss and in speaking out about it.

I am in awe. Talk about needing to walk a mile in someone elses shoes. You expected a holier than thou remark? You should I suppose. When I think back to the things that Randy Moss has done, I cannot think of anything that was all that bad.
There was the water bottle incident. He sprayed a ref with his water bottle. OK......Who in the hell hasnt wanted to do AT LEAST that much to a ref? I was at the Playoff game in Lambeau against Atlanta a few years back. I had a great seat with a great view of the field. Beleave me, some of the calls the ref's made that night had me wanting to do more than squirt them with water. Sure it was childish, but how old was Moss when he did that?
The mooning incedent? Big deal. The band came out with their stupid assed signs during that game with some smart assed comments to moss. He mooned the the band after he scored. Again, it was childish, but not anywhere close to the kind of stuff that people with REAL "character" issues do.
Koren Robinson........trying to outrun cops while intoxicated.
Ricky Williams.........the guy loves the ganj more than the game of football.
Ahmad Carroll........weapon and drug charges.

I cannot in any way, understand your apperant hatred for Randy Moss..........Other than the fact that he has single-handedly kicked the tar out of GB's seconday so many times that it gives nightmares to think of it.

On top of your problem with Moss, you dont think Favre has the right to speak out about Ted Thompson's lack of effort to close the deal? Buddy, I will tell you right now, you need to get off your high horse. You were expecting a holier than thou reply..........amazing. Here is your Holier than thou reply then:

This is Wisconsin. The Pride of Wisconsin is The GreenBay Packers. Brett Favre is the Heart and Soul of the Packers. He has been for quite some time. How anyone could possibly forget that, is beyond me! If Brett Favre has a problem with how Ted Thompson does ANYTHING.....he of all people has earned the right to speak his mind, and anyone who thinks differently is more than entitled to their own opinion, but its not going to be an opinion that many people in this state would share with you. If you honestly believe that Thompson has tried to improve our offense in an effort to win now rather than a year from now, than God bless you for the ignorant Packer fan that you are.

Ted Thompson : "I believe in building and that sort of thing. But I think you have to try to help your team. Quite frankly, I'd rather help us now rather than help us a year from now."

Go ahead and find anything credible that you can, that points toward Thompson trying to help improve our offense. Show me where he has tried to give our offense a proven weapon to help put points on the board. I am sure that the best you can come up with would be a few offensive linemen who have their starting jobs by pure default, and a draft pick or two that "panned out". Otherwise, it would appear to me that Brett Favre has every right to be disgusted, and that would be a huge understatement in the eyes of many Packer fans.
I would go a step further to say that Ted Thompson is really starting to look like a huge disgrace to the Packer organization, but that argument is already getting old.......and that in itself should speak volumes.

[mraynrand]

Koren Robinson........trying to outrun cops while intoxicated.
Ricky Williams.........the guy loves the ganj more than the game of football.
Ahmad Carroll........weapon and drug charges.


Nice list of fine upstanding individuals to compare Moss against. I guess you forgot about the traffic cop, too. Or battery charges in High School and violation of 'work release' for - you guessed it, MJ possession. He also had pot with him when he was arrested for running down the traffic cop. You want him, that's your business. But the guy's trouble, and all your attempts at excusing his behavior just prove my point - Most fans are willing to overlook a bunch of illegal behavior for a few TDs and perhaps a playoff appearance. Have fun with that. I think anyone who can overlooked being 'mooned' is a lame fan. Real fans hold grudges for a lot less. Let's see how much NE likes this guy when he melts down. Who's worse, Terry Glenn or Randy Moss. They'll get to compare and contrast. I'm glad the Packers don't have him and I wish they didn't have K-rob either. But that's just me. The rest of you want your two TDs and a Wild Card loss. That's important!

[GrnBay007]

That's pretty much the response I expected (actually I was expecting a 'holier than thou' type of remark - but close enough). I feel pretty confident that I can make some type of judgment of Randy Moss' behavior.

Based on behavior 3-10 years ago? Yep, people never change. :roll:



I find it pretty depressing actually that so many Packer fans are willing to take this guy in for what I guess might be a 1 or 2 game bump and possible playoff appearance.

Please! You have no way of knowing that...or even guessing at this point.



The guy is, among his NFL peers, a disgusting malcontent. Not as bad as some felons that are out there, but bad enough. I don't like him and am glad he's not on the Packers.

That is your opinion and you are well entitled to it....however, I think it's wrong to belittle people that differ from your opinion.......especially regarding standards....as you so noted.



I also am disappointed that Favre takes the position that he has - both in wanting Moss and in speaking out about it.


Why? Brett Favre wants to win. Do you think you have more information on this than he does....that Randy Moss would not immediately help the Packers? Favre would never compromise the TEAM to get one player in for help....he's always been about the team. And as far as him speaking out, I also disagree, he didn't say anything disrespectful towards the Packers........he just voiced his opinion......which many other QB's do ....AND, after 17 years of service I believe he has the right to do so.

[GrnBay007]

Let's see how much NE likes this guy when he melts down.

You mean in Glendale, Ariz. on Feb. 3, 2008?

[Patler]

I find it pretty depressing actually that so many Packer fans are willing to take this guy in for what I guess might be a 1 or 2 game bump and possible playoff appearance. The guy is, among his NFL peers, a disgusting malcontent. Not as bad as some felons that are out there, but bad enough. I don't like him and am glad he's not on the Packers. I also am disappointed that Favre takes the position that he has - both in wanting Moss and in speaking out about it.

My feelings too, exactly.

[Rastak]

Koren Robinson........trying to outrun cops while intoxicated.
Ricky Williams.........the guy loves the ganj more than the game of football.
Ahmad Carroll........weapon and drug charges.


Nice list of fine upstanding individuals to compare Moss against. I guess you forgot about the traffic cop, too. Or battery charges in High School and violation of 'work release' for - you guessed it, MJ possession. He also had pot with him when he was arrested for running down the traffic cop. You want him, that's your business. But the guy's trouble, and all your attempts at excusing his behavior just prove my point - Most fans are willing to overlook a bunch of illegal behavior for a few TDs and perhaps a playoff appearance. Have fun with that. I think anyone who can overlooked being 'mooned' is a lame fan. Real fans hold grudges for a lot less. Let's see how much NE likes this guy when he melts down. Who's worse, Terry Glenn or Randy Moss. They'll get to compare and contrast. I'm glad the Packers don't have him and I wish they didn't have K-rob either. But that's just me. The rest of you want your two TDs and a Wild Card loss. That's important!

I'm definately not a Randy Moss apologist but "running down a traffic cop?"...give me a fricken break. She sat her fat ass on the hood of his car and he drove along at 2 miles an hour trying to make a turn she didn't want him to make. Wrong? YES. Big deal and running down a traffic cop? HARDLY.


Walking off the field with the game on the line was his biggest crime.

[Patler]

Apparently everyone has forgotten that as recently as August 2005, in an interview with Bryant Gumbel, Moss admitted to smoking marijuana. Per ESPN.com, he said

"I have used, you know, marijuana ... since I've been in the league," Moss said in an interview for HBO's "Real Sports with Bryant Gumbel" scheduled to air Tuesday night. "But as far as abusing it and, you know, letting it take control over me, I don't do that, no."

When pressed whether he still smokes marijuana, the star receiver with the checkered past said: "I might. I might have fun. And, you know, hopefully ... I won't get into any trouble by the NFL by saying that, you know. I have had fun throughout my years and, you know, predominantly in the offseason."

So when was it that this rehabilitated, grown-up, matured Randy Moss emerged?

[Rastak]

Stuff from profootballtalk.com





LORD FAVRE IS DISPLEASED

Packers quarterback Brett Favre was widely believed to be pushing for the addition of receiver Randy Moss to the team. We had heard on numerous occasions that Favre was convinced that Moss would be a Packer in 2007.

But it didn't happen. Two weeks after the fact, Favre is sounding off about it.

"It was a done deal and the stories of how we lost him because he didn't want to restructure his contract were not true," Favre told the Biloxi Sun Herald.

"He was going to wipe his contract clean and sign for $3 million guaranteed, plus a fourth-round draft pick. That would have been a steal. But we were not willing to guarantee part of that $3 million. I even had [agent] Bus [Cook] call up there and tell them I would give up part of my salary to guarantee that part of the money. Apparently that wasn't enough either."

But Moss is getting no guaranteed money in New England either, so if the Packers were willing to pay $3 million with no guaranteed money and give up a fourth-round draft pick, Moss chose the same deal in New England over Green Bay. Indeed, agent Tim DiPiero said on the official Randy Moss web site that the Pats were the first team that they called once Moss got permission to shop himself.

So if what Favre is saying is accurate, Moss wanted a better deal from the Packers than the Patriots were willing to give him.

But, as far as Favre goes, the only thing that matters is what Favre thinks. And he thinks that the team could have had Moss, and that the team is trying to send Favre a subtle message.

"I just want to win; maybe I see things the wrong way," Favre said. "I don't want to ruffle any feathers and I want people to respect me. Sometimes I think it's hard for them to let Brett go. They might think that we pay him a lot of money, but he still gives us the best chance to win. I've never been told that, but there are times when I wonder if I'm the odd man out here and they just don't know how to tell me." (Emphasis added.)

We think he's right. We believe that G.M. Ted Thompson has been playing the passive-aggressive routine over the past two offseasons, saying all the right things about Favre but doing nothing to make him happy. Last April, during the infamous press conference about nothing, Favre said that he wanted to see the team bring in a Reggie White-style free agent. In 13 months since then, the closest Thompson has gotten to it is Charles Woodson, an underachieving defensive back who has been okay at best.

Moss was their best chance to get a true game-changer, and it was well known that Favre wanted him. How could Favre view the decision not to close the deal as anything other than a message to him that his opinion doesn't matter anymore?

"I told [receiver] Donald [Driver] to imagine a one-back set with a three-man rotation," Favre said. "Who would they cover? If they double Randy, Donald would be in single coverage. Last year, he caught 92 balls in double and triple coverage and made the Pro Bowl.

"Our offense struggled last season. If it were not for our defense, we would not have won eight games. Right now, it's hard to be optimistic. I'm not getting any younger and I think everyone knows that. I don't have five years to rebuild. No one in Green Bay is saying rebuild but it's hard to look at where we are going and say, 'How can they not be rebuilding?'

"I don't know if I've lost faith, and I think everyone in the organization wants to win. I just don't know if it includes me. If it's going to be five years from now, I'm not going to be here. This is 17 years for me and I want to win."

So why is Favre saying all of this? We think he's trying to get the Cheeseheads ready for what could come next -- a request for a trade or an abrupt retirement. And, like Donovan McNabb in Philly, Favre wants to be sure that the ultimate blame for any divorce gets put on the team.

And, if this ends in an ugly fashion, we think that's precisely where the blame should be placed. If the Packers don't want Favre, they shouldn't separate in cowardly fashion by frustrating him to the point that he walks. The team should simply end it and move on. (Or move out.)

Hey, maybe they can sign Todd Pinkston.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

HAS FAVRE ALREADY ASKED FOR A TRADE?

We've received several e-mails over the past week or so suggesting that message board postings from an administrator named "DavidPHX" on Brett Favre's official web site indicate that Favre has asked for a trade. "DavidPHX" has been characterized to us by multiple readers as a long-time Favre friend.

In response to a rumor that Favre has asked to be traded in the wake of the Randy Moss mess, DavidPHX posted on May 5, "Sorry Folks but I can't deny this rumor."

Later in the day, DavidPHX elaborated: "Hypothetically let's say it was true, it is more a personal issue between someone and [Ted Thompson]. Honesty, integrity is very important to some. It is not an issue of a player demanding a certain person on the team. That person would never do this. It could be a issue that a certain person told him you give an answer [about playing in 2007] before the [Super Bowl] and I will get you help? Then that person leading him to believe that he was serious about Randy?"

Then, DavidPHX added this: "Many of the reporters in Green Bay have heard this rumor also. Problem is they fear someone to[o] much to write about it. They want a certain person to confirm and that person is way to[o] loyal and not that type of a football player to let personal issues become part of the game?"

Apparently, "that person" recently has decided to blow off some steam on this one, and it might not be long before word comes out that Favre has asked to be moved.

But where would Favre land if he is traded? Miami? Oakland? Cleveland? Kansas City? There simply aren't many cities where a starting quarterback is needed.

The Saints would have been a great fit in 2006, and we have a feeling Favre now regrets not trying to make it happen. But the Saints weren't considered a year ago to be a potential contender in 2006, and there's no clear-cut contender in 2007 that needs a starting quarterback.

Or is there? If the Falcons were to decide to dump or trade Michael Vick, Favre could go back to the place where he started, and try to lead the team to heights that Vick never will.

Such a move would also help keep the Georgia Dome full while the franchise tries to refocus on winning games and not on making money via the Michael Vick machine.

And what about the Cowboys? Sure, Tony Romo is the future. But could Jerry Jones resist the chance to bring in Brett Favre for a season or two? It would help Romo's development, and it would provide a short-term upgrade.

Finally, the Bears would be more likely to win a Super Bowl with Favre instead of Rex Grossman, but we can't imagine Brett even entertaining the possibility of playing for the Packers' arch-rivals.

[Bretsky]

Personally, I think Thompson blew this one. His rookies better be able to contribute early. Of course, Moss could be the broken down Moss of the last 2 years, but I would have easily taken a chance considering the low cost.

completely agree

[Bretsky]

Apparently everyone has forgotten that as recently as August 2005, in an interview with Bryant Gumbel, Moss admitted to smoking marijuana. Per ESPN.com, he said

"I have used, you know, marijuana ... since I've been in the league," Moss said in an interview for HBO's "Real Sports with Bryant Gumbel" scheduled to air Tuesday night. "But as far as abusing it and, you know, letting it take control over me, I don't do that, no."

When pressed whether he still smokes marijuana, the star receiver with the checkered past said: "I might. I might have fun. And, you know, hopefully ... I won't get into any trouble by the NFL by saying that, you know. I have had fun throughout my years and, you know, predominantly in the offseason."

So when was it that this rehabilitated, grown-up, matured Randy Moss emerged?


I'd be willing to bet money we have several players using pot in the offseason.

I'm fine with Koren Robinson, not exactly a Saint.
I'm also fine with Randy Moss.

Part of that is desperation of wanting to have a shot.


B

[b bulldog]

TT totally blew this but the last thing the team needs is it's HOF QB whining about it. Don't forget that Moss has stated numerous times that he wants a championship and the Pats have a much better shot at giving him that than the Packers do.Maybe he will be traded :twisted: but I doubt he will. I do think TT has wanted to move on but he doesn't have the stones to actually do it. I think on this Moss deal we are now down to three or four different scenarios on why it never happpened.

[Patler]

Apparently everyone has forgotten that as recently as August 2005, in an interview with Bryant Gumbel, Moss admitted to smoking marijuana. Per ESPN.com, he said

"I have used, you know, marijuana ... since I've been in the league," Moss said in an interview for HBO's "Real Sports with Bryant Gumbel" scheduled to air Tuesday night. "But as far as abusing it and, you know, letting it take control over me, I don't do that, no."

When pressed whether he still smokes marijuana, the star receiver with the checkered past said: "I might. I might have fun. And, you know, hopefully ... I won't get into any trouble by the NFL by saying that, you know. I have had fun throughout my years and, you know, predominantly in the offseason."

So when was it that this rehabilitated, grown-up, matured Randy Moss emerged?


I'd be willing to bet money we have several players using pot in the offseason.

I'm fine with Koren Robinson, not exactly a Saint.
I'm also fine with Randy Moss.

Part of that is desperation of wanting to have a shot.


B

I don't doubt that there are Packers who do similar things, but by speaking out about it as blatantly as he did, Moss sets himself out as being above the rules. Its not that he does it. Its that he seems to think it shouldn't matter, inspite of league rules about it.

[b bulldog]

Brett is mad cause Moss burned him and signed with the Pats.

[Patler]

I honestly think Favre WANTS to retire, but he is afraid he will miss the game if he does. I've felt that way for several years. He is searching for an excuse to retire, so if at some point he wishes he hadn't retired, he can tell himself that he had no choice. He was forced to. Its simply a mechanism to deflect responsibility. It is not an uncommon mechanism that people use to do what they know they should, or have to, but wish it wasn't so.

No matter what Favre thinks he knows about the situation, it is doubtful that he knows all of the details. For that reason, it is just not a wise thing to do to speak out too much about it. Certainly he has the right to say whatever he wants about Moss, Walker, FAs the last two years, McKenzie a few years ago, and even more years ago about Sharpe. However, just because he has the right to do so doesn't mean it is a wise thing to do.

[GrnBay007]

Apparently everyone has forgotten that as recently as August 2005, in an interview with Bryant Gumbel, Moss admitted to smoking marijuana.

So when was it that this rehabilitated, grown-up, matured Randy Moss emerged?


Possession of marijuana is illegal and using marijuana is against NFL rules....fine. However, if this is the worst we can dig up on Moss the past two years, I'd say he admitted to something at least 50% + of NFL players do. And if anyone out there believes that none of our beloved current Packer team players never smoke marijuana please .........give me your telephone number to sell you some swamp land.

This can be debated forever. Lets just sit back and see what happens. Lets watch to see if we see headlines of Moss being suspended for illegal activity or drug use OR if we see headlines of Moss kicking ass in NE.

The guy is nearing retirement and wants a Super Bowl. I doubt he would do anything foolish to throw that away.

[Bretsky]

A few points

1. Brett Favre should not have said this stuff; regardless of my feelings about how the Moss scenario came down he should have kept quiet

but

2. Even the extremist TT defenders would be hard pressed to call Favre a liar about this (I'd ask Ziggy but she's on a cruise :lol: ).

He's a source that certainly would know a lot more about the exact situation than all of those ESPN guys who continued to quote "sources" and state them as fact. Sources said Moss would only renegotiate with NE. Sources said he preferred them, and then McKenzie said Moss went to NE becauase that is where he wanted to play. What a load of bunk.

3. Let's lay all this source crap to rest. Like it or not, bottom line was NE got it done and TT did not. NE was willing to give up a 4th and TT was not.

If you want to say TT didn't have the stones (that would be my view as well) or TT was smart or TT doesn't like giving up draft choices......all that is your own opinion.

Bottom line is NE made it happen.

And if you look at all my posts it went down just as I expected. I never expected TT to land Randy Moss.

[b bulldog]

Moss kicking ass in NE with talents such as Stallworth,Jackson,Washington,Maroney and Watson surrounding him will be no reflection on how he would have played in GB. Two totally different situations, the Pats are loaded, the Pack is not.

[b bulldog]

Agree with you B. I do think Moss would have rather played in New England than in GB. I think TT didn't pull the trigger here but I also think that there was many different things involved that made the deal happen in Newe England.

[RashanGary]

If NE misses the SB this year they are going to get old quick and they're running out of recources to patch it up.

I really hope the Colts have a stellar year. I want Manning to walk through and win it. I think they deserve it more than NE.

[GrnBay007]

Moss kicking ass in NE with talents such as Stallworth,Jackson,Washington,Maroney and Watson surrounding him will be no reflection on how he would have played in GB. Two totally different situations, the Pats are loaded, the Pack is not.

If that was in response to my post...I was only commenting on lets see if we hear positive or negative on Moss regarding behavior mainly VS productivity. That would be true no matter what team he is on. As far as productivity goes, I would guess we could see the same if he was playing with the Packers that we will see with NE.

[Patler]

Apparently everyone has forgotten that as recently as August 2005, in an interview with Bryant Gumbel, Moss admitted to smoking marijuana.

So when was it that this rehabilitated, grown-up, matured Randy Moss emerged?


Possession of marijuana is illegal and using marijuana is against NFL rules....fine. However, if this is the worst we can dig up on Moss the past two years, I'd say he admitted to something at least 50% + of NFL players do. And if anyone out there believes that none of our beloved current Packer team players never smoke marijuana please .........give me your telephone number to sell you some swamp land.

This can be debated forever. Lets just sit back and see what happens. Lets watch to see if we see headlines of Moss being suspended for illegal activity or drug use OR if we see headlines of Moss kicking ass in NE.

The guy is nearing retirement and wants a Super Bowl. I doubt he would do anything foolish to throw that away.

Let me reiterate, its not that he does it. I am absolutely sure there are players on every team that do the same.

However, by going on ESPN and in effect saying, "Yup, I do it. Gee, I hope the league doesn't care! I'm just a fun-loving guy and this is how I do it." he sets himself up as being above the law, above league rules. He simply doesn't care, and by admitting it seemingly doesn't care if he gets caught.

Don't read it for what he did, smoke a little dope, but for how he portrays it, himself and his responsibilities to the team and the league. He simply doesn't care.

[Patler]

Personally, I think Thompson blew this one. His rookies better be able to contribute early. Of course, Moss could be the broken down Moss of the last 2 years, but I would have easily taken a chance considering the low cost.

completely agree

With all due respect, at this time no one knows if TT blew it....or if NE did!

[Rastak]

Personally, I think Thompson blew this one. His rookies better be able to contribute early. Of course, Moss could be the broken down Moss of the last 2 years, but I would have easily taken a chance considering the low cost.

completely agree

With all due respect, at this time no one knows if TT blew it....or if NE did!


Well, after listening to Favre's comments I'm now leaning toward TT blew it.
The way that guy likes to trade down, he can afford a 3rd round pick (he'll just get another one by trading down).

And handing out weekly bonues is a very clever idea, but it only works if you hold most of the cards, any self respecting veteran not coming off a suspension or a major injury isn't gonna go for that. Hindsight is 20/20 but in retrospect, if he really wanted Moss he should have offered up a 3 and given Moss a fair amount of upfront money to burn some of this years cap.
That assumes he really wanted Moss in the first place.

[Scott Campbell]

TT totally blew this but the last thing the team needs is it's HOF QB whining about it.


I think I agree with Bulldog the most out of anything I've read here. You can't have your QB whining to the press about the one that got away. There is no constructive purpose whatsoever, other than to undermine the organization. And this should hold true regardless of how you feel about Moss.

[Scott Campbell]

Personally, I think Thompson blew this one. His rookies better be able to contribute early. Of course, Moss could be the broken down Moss of the last 2 years, but I would have easily taken a chance considering the low cost.

completely agree

With all due respect, at this time no one knows if TT blew it....or if NE did!


There's the old saying that the best trade might be the one that you don't make.

[Packnut]

It was only a matter of time before Brett spoke out. All hedid was say what most of the fans and NFL pundits have been saying, which is Thompson has given Brett no help.

Really this whole thing is not a complicated matter. The facts speak for themselves as far as where our RZ offense and points scored pg is ranked. We all know this offense has had problems scoring for 3 years. Thompson had the cash and there were moves he could have made. He did nothing.

IF we have trouble scoring again, then TT has no excuses and neither do his backers. He knew what the problems were and it's HIS JOB to fix them. That is after all what a GM is paid to do. If our offense can score, than he was right and should be rewarded with a contract extension. I'm more than willing to let this season say all we need to know about our GM.

[GrnBay007]

Let me reiterate, its not that he does it. I am absolutely sure there are players on every team that do the same.

However, by going on ESPN and in effect saying, "Yup, I do it. Gee, I hope the league doesn't care! I'm just a fun-loving guy and this is how I do it." he sets himself up as being above the law, above league rules. He simply doesn't care, and by admitting it seemingly doesn't care if he gets caught.

Don't read it for what he did, smoke a little dope, but for how he portrays it, himself and his responsibilities to the team and the league. He simply doesn't care.

I understand that and I also have negative feelings for those who believe they are above the law. And I agree with the NFL drug rules and policies. I'm not condoning the use of drugs by NFL players in any way....but I do believe sometimes a persons priorities can change and they may no longer enjoy being portrayed in a negative fashion. Maybe I'm completely wrong, but I would guess that the non-media, more quiet Moss we've seen the last two years is now more focussed on getting to the SB than he is with the drama of the old days.

[BallHawk]

What does Brett hope to accomplish by saying this? Does he think that Randy is suddenly gonna say "I don't want to be a Patriot. I want to be a Packer" and then TT will trade for Moss? It's in the pass, we don't know the details, we never will, and pointing fingers causes nothing but trouble.

Myself, I would say I'm a TT supporter. I'm not going to rush to defend his every move, but I think what he does is right. It's stupid for people to say reasons for not having Moss like "Randy Moss ran over a traffic cop" or "he smokes pot" because, quite frankly, if he was on the Packers none of you would care about those things. Calvin Johnson smoked weed, does that mean you wouldn't take him for a 4th rounder? You'd have images of Favre bombing balls to Moss for TDs, but now you don't. Now, however, since he is not a Packer people try to find a way to make it feel like it is alright we didn't get him. They find excuses, they try to rationalize the situation.

I'm alright that we didn't get Moss, he is aging and he isn't exactly a locker room leader, but he would of helped this team. Whether he would of come here, I don't know, but you can spin any way you want. However, the true answer remains; Randy Moss would of helped the Packers. Whether it would of been for 2 years of 5 years, he would of helped us. We'll see how he does with the Pats, but this is something we're gonna look back on in 5 years and say either "Boy, glad we didn't get that guy" or "Damn, we should of had 'em." What we say will be down to Randy, not Ted.

[GrnBay007]

IF we have trouble scoring again, then TT has no excuses and neither do his backers. He knew what the problems were and it's HIS JOB to fix them. That is after all what a GM is paid to do. If our offense can score, than he was right and should be rewarded with a contract extension. I'm more than willing to let this season say all we need to know about our GM.

Amen to that!!!!

[Scott Campbell]

On Moss, I think I agree with Ras most. His biggest transgression was quitting on his team. He has a higher probability of becoming a locker room cancer than most. I'm not sure that would keep me from making that trade.

I'm just not sure Moss has much left in the tank. He hasn't been Randy Moss for what, like 3 years now? The guy in Oakland was an imposter. It's reported that he doesn't take care of his body. And his game was built around the types of skills that typically detiorate quickly with age - speed and explosive leaping ability.

So I wouldn't have made the trade. Though I'm sort of half way between being against the trade and being on the fence about it because the pick was relatively low.

[Scott Campbell]

All hedid was say what most of the fans and NFL pundits have been saying.............


He's not a fan.
He's not a pundit.

He's a paid employee of the organization, and is held to a different standard than fans and pundits. Try calling your employer out next week in a trade rag and see how well that goes over.

[GrnBay007]

Hindsight is 20/20 but in retrospect, if he really wanted Moss he should have offered up a 3 and given Moss a fair amount of upfront money to burn some of this years cap.
That assumes he really wanted Moss in the first place.


LOL ...there you go.

[HarveyWallbangers]

To be fair, my opinion on this would have depended on more than a one year contract with Moss. For this team, I would have had to get a longer committment to trade any pick for him.

[GrnBay007]

TT totally blew this but the last thing the team needs is it's HOF QB whining about it.


I think I agree with Bulldog the most out of anything I've read here. You can't have your QB whining to the press about the one that got away. There is no constructive purpose whatsoever, other than to undermine the organization. And this should hold true regardless of how you feel about Moss.

QB's make statements frequently regarding drafts and FA's. I would never think Favre would say something to undermine the organization...he's always been about the team. I can understand his frustration with the current situation but maybe this was not the right time to voice that. I do agree with what he said though.

[Patler]

All hedid was say what most of the fans and NFL pundits have been saying.............


He's not a fan.
He's not a pundit.

He's a paid employee of the organization, and is held to a different standard than fans and pundits. Try calling your employer out next week in a trade rag and see how well that goes over.

Yup! People tend to forget that Brett favre is NOT the GB Packers. They were a successful organization with ups and downs before he came, they have been a successful organization with ups and downs while he has been with them; and they will continue as an organization, hopefully successful, with ups and downs after he retires.

Thirty years from now the vast majority of the most rapid Packers will have no more recollection for or appreciation of Brett Favre than many have today for Don Hutson, Bart Starr or Paul Hornung. Heck, a lot of fans have no recollection of Lynn Dickey and all that he provided as the Packer QB.

It won't be all that long before, to many fans, Favre will simply be a name in the record book who couldn't possibly have been as great as their current hero. I'm not sure Favre is willing to accept that, but it is inevitable.

[Scott Campbell]

Hindsight is 20/20 but in retrospect, if he really wanted Moss he should have offered up a 3 and given Moss a fair amount of upfront money to burn some of this years cap.
That assumes he really wanted Moss in the first place.


LOL ...there you go.


That's an important piece of info on Moss. He's been shopped for an eternity, only to bring a 4th rounder in return. A lousy stinking 4th rounder?

What does that tell you about the professional personnell people in the NFL when Randy fetches only a 4th rounder? Shermy gave up more for R-Kal.

B might tell you that at the time of a transaction, a house is only worth what a buyer and seller agree to on a selling price. So Randy was only worth a 4th rounder at this particular point in time. He might end up being worth more later if it pans out, or less/nothing if it doesn't. But at this point of time, he's a 4th rounder. And I can't get real worked up one way or the other over a 4th rounder.

[GrnBay007]

True Packer fans have an appreciation for all the greats and that will continue...including Favre.

[Rastak]

To be fair, my opinion on this would have depended on more than a one year contract with Moss. For this team, I would have had to get a longer committment to trade any pick for him.

I hear ya but TT seems to have loads of picks every year, so you wouldn't miss it much anyway.

[pbmax]

I don't want to rain on anyone's self-pity parade, but if this statement is true, then the salary he wanted from Green Bay was more than what he got in New England. I don't believe he has any guaranteed money in his New England deal. My apologies if I have jumped the thread and this is a repeat.


“He was going to wipe his contract clean and sign for $3 million guaranteed, plus a fourth-round draft pick. That would have been a steal. But we were not willing to guarantee part of that $3 million. I even had (agent) Bus (Cook) call up there and tell them I would give up part of my salary to guarantee that part of the money. Apparently that wasn’t enough, either.”

[GrnBay007]

That's an important piece of info on Moss.

He might end up being worth more later if it pans out, or less/nothing if it doesn't.

Just like every single draft pick TT has made....except Moss has quite a bit of history.

[Scott Campbell]

I would never think Favre would say something to undermine the organization...


Yet that is exactly what he just did.

Possible explanations:

1) It was an emotional reaction and not well thought out. I don't buy it, because it's 2 weeks after the fact. This appears to be a calculated move.

2) He wants a trade, and a public scapegoat in Thompson. That looks somewhat plausible to me.

I haven't yet thought of any other plausible motives for this kind of behavior.

[GBRulz]

I won't quote the entire article that you posted from pft, Rastak, but the 2nd article was interesting. "Davidphx" is Brett's pilot and long-time friend, so I would have to assume his comments hold some water as to being truthful.

In all honesty, I just don't see what Brett speaking out about this was supposed to accomplish. After hearing it though, I see the whole moss situation as a TT failure. Maybe that was his purpose, I dunno.

[Rastak]

I would never think Favre would say something to undermine the organization...


Yet that is exactly what he just did.

Possible explanations:

1) It was an emotional reaction and not well thought out. I don't buy it, because it's 2 weeks after the fact. This appears to be a calculated move.

2) He wants a trade, and a public scapegoat in Thompson. That looks somewhat plausible to me.

I haven't yet thought of any other plausible motives for this kind of behavior.

I hope packinpatland doesn't hunt me down for this but while Favre isn't stupid, he also isn't someone you'd invite to a think tank either. I don't think he gave it alot of thought before he started talking.

[GrnBay007]

I haven't yet thought of any other plausible motives for this kind of behavior.

How about it's simply the TRUTH!

....and that doesn't mean he's undermining the organization.

[Scott Campbell]

I don't want to rain on anyone's self-pity parade.......


I think this comment is very perceptive, but I'm not so sure it's self pity. I see it as more of a lynch mob mentality, with a few ring leaders trying to rile up the rest of the crowd with a bunch of inflamatory comments and hyperbole. It's almost like watching an old western, where more often than not they hung the wrong guy.

[Patler]

TT totally blew this but the last thing the team needs is it's HOF QB whining about it.


I think I agree with Bulldog the most out of anything I've read here. You can't have your QB whining to the press about the one that got away. There is no constructive purpose whatsoever, other than to undermine the organization. And this should hold true regardless of how you feel about Moss.

QB's make statements frequently regarding drafts and FA's. I would never think Favre would say something to undermine the organization...he's always been about the team. I can understand his frustration with the current situation but maybe this was not the right time to voice that. I do agree with what he said though.

Favre is 37 years old, has been part of sports teams all his life and has been a pro for nearly half his life. A 17-year employee in any job that has public influence on his employer should understand the ramifications of what he says and does. Favre has set himself up in controntation to TT, and he knows it. Unless he is really, really unintelliigent, he did it on purpose, for whatever his reasons.

Favre has been a great QB, that does not mean he knows anything about running a team. His repeated off-season negative comments last year and this about what the Packers are doing does undermine the team to at least some extent, and I will not pretend that it doesn't.

I have dealt with pro athletes. For all their god-given physical talent, it seems like the vast majority sacrificed or were not given common sense.

[pbmax]

I don't think I am extemist, but I'll take a shot at calling Favre on "gilding the lily". He can't claim with a straight face that a (partially) guaranteed contract from the Packers is LESS than a non-guaranteed contract with the Patriots. I think there is a chance Favre got played.


2. Even the extremist TT defenders would be hard pressed to call Favre a liar about this (I'd ask Ziggy but she's on a cruise :lol: ).

[Scott Campbell]

I haven't yet thought of any other plausible motives for this kind of behavior.

How about it's simply the TRUTH!

....and that doesn't mean he's undermining the organization.


Well the truth might include a bad case of jock itch. Yet he doesn't call a press conference to bitch about that. Every organization has dirty laundry it doesn't want made public.

Complaining about the roster and not getting this trade done falls squarely in the "undermine" catagory as far as I'm concerned. No good to the organization can come from these comments.

[gbpackfan]

I am sick to my stomach reading these articles. TT blew it, plain and simple. If you can't see that, then you are living in a fantasy land. The offense has lost pieces, not gained them. We are going to have A LOT of trouble scoring points this year. Good work TT. You fucking idiot!!!!

[Scott Campbell]

I don't think he gave it alot of thought before he started talking.


I could see this if he made the comments on draft day, or the day after. But the 2 weeks make this appear to be premeditated. A calculated move/ploy.

[Scott Campbell]

I am sick to my stomach reading these articles. TT blew it, plain and simple. If you can't see that, then you are living in a fantasy land. The offense has lost pieces, not gained them. We are going to have A LOT of trouble scoring points this year. Good work TT. You fucking idiot!!!!


See my previous lynch mob comments.

[BallHawk]

I haven't yet thought of any other plausible motives for this kind of behavior.

How about it's simply the TRUTH!

It's also the truth that Cory Rodgers was a horrible pick and Adrian Klem and Matt O'Dwyer were horrible FA pickups. Does that give Favre the right to go up on a podium and declare that they suck and the GM is a moron for picking them up?

I'm sorry, Favre is a Packer great, but he is not above the team. If any other players said this we'd be saying "they should keep their mouth out of this." Favre, though more talented, is a player of the Green Bay Packers. In terms of being an employee, because that's what these players are, he is no more important than Noah Herron or Will Blackmon. I think that he sees himself as being more important than the rest of the team. If he has that idea, he is sorely mistaken.

[RashanGary]

Favre is the most selfish, me first athlete I've watched closely and it's not even close.



I'd feel pretty good about a Favre retirement right now. He's a decent QB at this time with a big time me first attitude and 2 years at most in front of him. If he wants to retire, I'd be just as much of a Packer fan and just as excited as if he stays.

Just because Favre says something is so, doesn't make it so. His mouth has been chirping controversy for a long time. Every big time drama has Brett right in the middle. If it's the player who is making it hard on Brett like with Walker, Brett will stab the player in the back. If it's the organization making it hard on Brett, Favre will stab them in the back. I wouldn't want to work with Brett Favre. You always feel like you mgiht be the next guy to get back stabbed if you don't do it his way.

[GrnBay007]

I haven't yet thought of any other plausible motives for this kind of behavior.

How about it's simply the TRUTH!

....and that doesn't mean he's undermining the organization.


Well the truth might include a bad case of jock itch. Yet he doesn't call a press conference to bitch about that. Every organization has dirty laundry it doesn't want made public.



Maybe Favre felt it was time. He's been hung out on a line for what, 3 yrs. now?

I'm done voicing opinion on this. I'm on that band wagon that says TT has done very little/nothing to upgrade this offense. I hope some of his O draft picks will shine.....we can all hope.

[Bretsky]

IF we have trouble scoring again, then TT has no excuses and neither do his backers. He knew what the problems were and it's HIS JOB to fix them. That is after all what a GM is paid to do. If our offense can score, than he was right and should be rewarded with a contract extension. I'm more than willing to let this season say all we need to know about our GM.

Amen to that!!!!


Amen as well

Bottom line is NE was willing to give up a fourth
Ted Thompson was only willing to part with a fifth

As I said many times before this went down I never felt like TT would have the stones to give up a pick and make this move

[GrnBay007]

Favre is the most selfish, me first athlete I've watched closely and it's not even close.



Please tell me you are joking?

[GBRulz]

Any good ideas on custom tshirt designs (slogans) that I could wear to mini-camp next weekend? :twisted:

[pbmax]

1. Addition by subtraction folks. People would not given up on Moss if he hadn't given up on them.

2. EVERY year someone is viewed as the offseason champion. That team is gone by the first round of the playoffs. See Raiders, Redskins, Vikings (sorry Rastak). This year it will be the 49ers, Cardinals and Patriots.

3. It always ends badly or it wouldn't end. Marino blamed Jimmy Johnson and his receivers. Remember him yelling and staring at the offending receivers who dared miss the ball? Young was forced out byh concussions while all the time maintaining he could have still played. Montana was traded. Namath played for the Rams and Unitas played for the Chargers.

If Favre wanted it his way, he either needed to retire early OR become a scout on his way to the GM chair.

T2 may be wrong, but he's got the job title. Reading devious personal motives into each move ignores the simpler reality. The Packers needed to rebuild, Favre or no.

[GBRulz]

[quote="JustinHarrell"]Favre is the most selfish, me first athlete I've watched closely and it's not even close.

Give me a break. If you are being facetious I apologize but Favre is the most UNselfish athlete. So he speaks his mind? Big deal, it doesn't mean he's seflish. How many times has this guy restructured his contract so other players could be signed? That isn't selfish.

[pbmax]

And I think we have confirmation that all this retirement talk from Favre starting in 2001 or 2002 with Michael Silver in Sports Illustrated was a ploy to keep the heat on the team to win now. Sherman was powerless to resist it as both the coach and GM, Thompson is ignoring it.

I am amazed he is ignoring it so completely, not even making window dressing moves, but I admire his committment to his philosophy.

The tragedy is that neither may get want they want. Favre might have to force a trade if he is unwilling to play out the string hoping for rebuilding to take root.

Thompson, if the lynch mob had their way, might not see the rebuilding project finished.

[GrnBay007]

Any good ideas on custom tshirt designs (slogans) that I could wear to mini-camp next weekend? :twisted:

LOL yeah...

No Mo Moss. TY TT.

:P :wink:

[BallHawk]

1. Addition by subtraction folks. People would not given up on Moss if he hadn't given up on them.

2. EVERY year someone is viewed as the offseason champion. That team is gone by the first round of the playoffs. See Raiders, Redskins, Vikings (sorry Rastak). This year it will be the 49ers, Cardinals and Patriots.

3. It always ends badly or it wouldn't end. Marino blamed Jimmy Johnson and his receivers. Remember him yelling and staring at the offending receivers who dared miss the ball? Young was forced out byh concussions while all the time maintaining he could have still played. Montana was traded. Namath played for the Rams and Unitas played for the Chargers.

If Favre wanted it his way, he either needed to retire early OR become a scout on his way to the GM chair.

T2 may be wrong, but he's got the job title. Reading devious personal motives into each move ignores the simpler reality. The Packers needed to rebuild, Favre or no.

Agree completely. Well said.

[PackerBlues]

Ted Thompson : "I believe in building and that sort of thing. But I think you have to try to help your team. Quite frankly, I'd rather help us now rather than help us a year from now."

Ted Thompson : "What we try to do is everything in our power to try to help make this team as good as it can be," Thompson said Sunday shortly after selecting his 11th and final player of the 2007 draft. "You have to take a lot of things into consideration.

"Sometimes it's an aggressive move; sometimes that aggressive move is not the appropriate time. But you just keep doing everything you can to make the team better. And that's all you can do."



He "thought" he had a deal in place with Oakland going into the draft for Randy Moss? What kind of bull shit is that? For Thompson to say anything at all about making "aggressive moves" is laughable!


The following is taken from a JSonline article by ROB REISCHEL.
(http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=602430)


Green Bay was 22nd in the NFL in scoring in 2006, and the Packers' 301 points were the second-fewest of the Favre era. Only the 2005 Packers had fewer points (298) since Favre arrived in 1992.

Green Bay also scored just 27 offensive touchdowns. That tied the lowest mark of the Favre-era set in 1992 and was the Packers' fewest overall TDs since 1990 when they scored 25.

The Packers' greatest problems came in the red zone, where they ranked 31st. Of Green Bay's 49 trips inside the 20-yard line, it scored just 16 touchdowns (32.7%).

Only Oakland had a poorer success rate in the red zone, going 10 for 35 (28.6%). And the Packers weren't even close to No. 30 Detroit, which went 18-of-45 (40%).



Brett Favre has more than earned the right to speak his mind about everything and anything involving the Green and Gold. Anyone who says differently is just looking to "enable" Thompson. Thompson has done nothing worth mentioning to improve our offense in the 3 years he has been running the show. In fact, looking at what he has done with our offense, I am suprised that Favre is the only guy speaking up on the matter.


Move #1 was to dismantle the O-line. He accomplished that with a quickness.
Next he uses a first round draft pick on Aaron Rogers. Aaron has come in real handy since Thompson wasted that draft pick on him hasnt he? That move was ALMOST as brilliant as trading up for a punter in the 3rd round.
How about trading away Javon Walker on the first day of the 2006 draft. That didnt help put points on the board did it?
More recently he went through the motions of trying to sign Green and trade for Moss. There was no obvious effort to get either deal done.


You people sit there looking down your noses at Favre for speaking out, saying he has no right. I am simply suprised that more people are not speaking up and calling for Thompsons head. Suggesting Favre has no right to speak up.........unreal!

[Rastak]

[quote=JustinHarrell]Favre is the most selfish, me first athlete I've watched closely and it's not even close.

Give me a break. If you are being facetious I apologize but Favre is the most UNselfish athlete. So he speaks his mind? Big deal, it doesn't mean he's seflish. How many times has this guy restructured his contract so other players could be signed? That isn't selfish.

Actually each of those were to his benefit....it just gave him more upfront money while deferring the cap hit.

[BallHawk]

Any good ideas on custom tshirt designs (slogans) that I could wear to mini-camp next weekend? :twisted:

How about...

Who needs Moss when you're going on a Carlyle Holiday?

[Rastak]

Rolling stoned, gathers no Moss?

[RashanGary]

Hopefully he just hangs it up. I'm rather tired of his big mouth. I'm not worried about what happens when he's gone. I'm sure we can go 4-12 with or without him.

[pbmax]

I vote for the Carlyle "Holliday" shirt.

Rob Reischel has every right to claim Favre has earned the right to speak out. Rob Reischel also has every right to be a hack who is wrong.

The government cannot preclude your right to speak. A private employer can within certain boundaries.

And since its my dollars and eyeballs that pay the freight, I choose to respect and appreciate Favre the QB and ignore Favre the GM.

[GrnBay007]

Hopefully he just hangs it up. I'm rather tired of his big mouth.


Please don't cheer him on this season then.....that would be quite hypocritical.

[Packnut]

All hedid was say what most of the fans and NFL pundits have been saying.............


He's not a fan.
He's not a pundit.

He's a paid employee of the organization, and is held to a different standard than fans and pundits. Try calling your employer out next week in a trade rag and see how well that goes over.

Well then we disagree. Favre earned the right to say whatever the hell he wants to say. He earned it by playing with injuries when NO ONE else in this league would have even tried. He earned it by having a career game on national tv after his father died. He has earned the right by giving us everything he has. It's very sad that people like you take these things for granted like it means nothing at all..........

[RashanGary]

I cheer the Packers.

[PackerBlues]

moved

[GrnBay007]

I cheer the Packers.

see the above post by packnut

[Scott Campbell]

Brett Favre has more than earned the right to speak his mind about everything and anything involving the Green and Gold. Anyone who says differently is just looking to "enable" Thompson.


I'd have felt the exact same way about this if Favre had criticized Shermy's knuckheaded move to trade up to grab BJ. Players shouldn't criticize the organization publically. Period.

I think the anti-TT bias has clouded the judgement of some.

[Patler]

Maybe Favre felt it was time. He's been hung out on a line for what, 3 yrs. now?


I think you are being a bit naive in you reverence for Favre. He has been complaining about the off season activities of the team for three years, not qietly sitting back, saying nothing. If he wants weapons so badly, why did he alienate Walker?

He KNOWS he is no longer the future of the Green Bay Packers, and he can't stand it! He can't accept that they are actually planning to go on without him, drafting a QB for the future, building the base for the team for years from now, etc. Consequently, he seeks constant reaffirmation from the team that they still "love Brett Favre".

Many great athletes wind down their careers badly. Only some, like John Elway, aknowledge their declining importance in the overall scheme of things, adapt their play to their declining abilities, and accept their position as a supporting role to others. Ironically, if they do that, the time inevitably seems to come, as it did for Elway, when they in fact are called on to make "the play" in a key situation. Its not in every game as when they were the key, but it comes nevertheless.

[BallHawk]

I think the anti-TT bias has clouded the judgement of some.

Definitely. It's gotten to the point that, no matter what TT does, it's either not enough or the wrong move.

[BallHawk]

Question to everyone who thinks Favre speaking out is right....

If any other player on the Packers said this, would it be acceptable?

[Rastak]

Maybe Favre felt it was time. He's been hung out on a line for what, 3 yrs. now?


I think you are being a bit naive in you reverence for Favre. He has been complaining about the off season activities of the team for three years, not qietly sitting back, saying nothing. If he wants weapons so badly, why did he alienate Walker?

He KNOWS he is no longer the future of the Green Bay Packers, and he can't stand it! He can't accept that they are actually planning to go on without him, drafting a QB for the future, building the base for the team for years from now, etc. Consequently, he seeks constant reaffirmation from the team that they still "love Brett Favre".

Many great athletes wind down their careers badly. Only some, like John Elway, aknowledge their declining importance in the overall scheme of things, adapt their play to their declining abilities, and accept their position as a supporting role to others. Ironically, if they do that, the time inevitably seems to come, as it did for Elway, when they in fact are called on to make "the play" in a key situation. Its not in every game as when they were the key, but it comes nevertheless.

Jerry Rice comes to mind on poor exits for hall of famers......

[BallHawk]

Maybe Favre felt it was time. He's been hung out on a line for what, 3 yrs. now?


I think you are being a bit naive in you reverence for Favre. He has been complaining about the off season activities of the team for three years, not qietly sitting back, saying nothing. If he wants weapons so badly, why did he alienate Walker?

He KNOWS he is no longer the future of the Green Bay Packers, and he can't stand it! He can't accept that they are actually planning to go on without him, drafting a QB for the future, building the base for the team for years from now, etc. Consequently, he seeks constant reaffirmation from the team that they still "love Brett Favre".

Many great athletes wind down their careers badly. Only some, like John Elway, aknowledge their declining importance in the overall scheme of things, adapt their play to their declining abilities, and accept their position as a supporting role to others. Ironically, if they do that, the time inevitably seems to come, as it did for Elway, when they in fact are called on to make "the play" in a key situation. Its not in every game as when they were the key, but it comes nevertheless.

Jerry Rice comes to mind on poor exits for hall of famers......

Rice still had some ability until he left for Seattle. At that point, everybody knew he didn't have it, except him. Maybe he did know he didn't have it, but couldn't hang 'em up. Maybe that's how Favre feels....

[Scott Campbell]

Well then we disagree. Favre earned the right to say whatever the hell he wants to say. He earned it by playing with injuries when NO ONE else in this league would have even tried. He earned it by having a career game on national tv after his father died. He has earned the right by giving us everything he has. It's very sad that people like you take these things for granted like it means nothing at all..........


The definition of right vs. wrong shouldn't change just for him because of his resume.

[Scott Campbell]

I am simply suprised that more people are not speaking up and calling for Thompsons head. Suggesting Favre has no right to speak up.........unreal!



See previous lynch mob comments.

[GrnBay007]

I think you are being a bit naive in you reverence for Favre. He has been complaining about the off season activities of the team for three years, not qietly sitting back, saying nothing. If he wants weapons so badly, why did he alienate Walker?

He called out Walker for not sticking to his contract.....is that bad?




He KNOWS he is no longer the future of the Green Bay Packers, and he can't stand it! He can't accept that they are actually planning to go on without him, drafting a QB for the future, building the base for the team for years from now, etc. Consequently, he seeks constant reaffirmation from the team that they still "love Brett Favre".



He wants to win. The QB is there. Why is it so bad to want to go out on a winning season?

[Scott Campbell]

If Favre wanted it his way, he either needed to retire early OR become a scout on his way to the GM chair.

T2 may be wrong, but he's got the job title. Reading devious personal motives into each move ignores the simpler reality. The Packers needed to rebuild, Favre or no.


Totally agree.

[Rastak]

I think you are being a bit naive in you reverence for Favre. He has been complaining about the off season activities of the team for three years, not qietly sitting back, saying nothing. If he wants weapons so badly, why did he alienate Walker?

He called out Walker for not sticking to his contract.....is that bad?






Doing it publicly was bad, in my opinion. Had he called him on it privately it would have made more sense.

[Scott Campbell]

And I think we have confirmation that all this retirement talk from Favre starting in 2001 or 2002 with Michael Silver in Sports Illustrated was a ploy to keep the heat on the team to win now. Sherman was powerless to resist it as both the coach and GM, Thompson is ignoring it.

I am amazed he is ignoring it so completely, not even making window dressing moves, but I admire his committment to his philosophy.

The tragedy is that neither may get want they want. Favre might have to force a trade if he is unwilling to play out the string hoping for rebuilding to take root.

Thompson, if the lynch mob had their way, might not see the rebuilding project finished.


Terrific post - especially the powerless to resist Sherman comment.

[PackerBlues]

Favre is 37 years old, has been part of sports teams all his life and has been a pro for nearly half his life. A 17-year employee in any job that has public influence on his employer should understand the ramifications of what he says and does. Favre has set himself up in controntation to TT, and he knows it. Unless he is really, really unintelliigent, he did it on purpose, for whatever his reasons.

Favre has been a great QB, that does not mean he knows anything about running a team. His repeated off-season negative comments last year and this about what the Packers are doing does undermine the team to at least some extent, and I will not pretend that it doesn't.

I have dealt with pro athletes. For all their god-given physical talent, it seems like the vast majority sacrificed or were not given common sense.

You have dealt with Pro Athletes? Joy for you. Favre has been a Pro Athlete for half of his life. Half of his life for the Green and Gold. If one were not completely full of ones own self, one might think that Favre might have learned a thing or two about what it takes to field a winning team.
Favre's comments are undermining the team? No, they undermine Ted Thompson. Huge difference. I am more than sure that Brett understands how his comments come across, and the only person I see suffering from such comments is your beloved Ted Thompson. The ball is now in Thompsons court to respond. I am suprised it took Favre this long to say anything, I am glad that he spoke up. I seriously doubt that at this point Favre cares about being in a "confrontation" with Thompson. Whats teddy going to do? Cut him? Trade him? He doesnt have the balls!!!

[falco]

I think you are being a bit naive in you reverence for Favre. He has been complaining about the off season activities of the team for three years, not qietly sitting back, saying nothing. If he wants weapons so badly, why did he alienate Walker?
He called out Walker for not sticking to his contract.....is that bad?

Doing it publicly was bad, in my opinion. Had he called him on it privately it would have made more sense.

I was thinkikng the same thing. Not that I blame Favre for Walker's holdout, but i wonder if his public statements made it that much harder for TT to work something out, or gave J-Walk additional fuel for his antics.

[Scott Campbell]

He wants to win. The QB is there. Why is it so bad to want to go out on a winning season?


There's a difference between wanting to win, and publically calling out your GM for being a dumbass. I don't mind him lobbying internally. I do mind him running his mouth in the press.

You don't hear the organization publically whining about Favre's stupid interceptions. Brett should show them the same courtesy.

[RashanGary]

I've always admired Thompsons ability to refrain from desperate moves. You see so many teams like Cleveland in the NBA get a star and out of desperation they make stupid moves to build a winner quickly for the star. I don't know exactly what happened with Moss and despite Brett saying we could have had him for a 4th and whatever it was that Brett said for salary, I don't think it was the case.

Thompson may have messed up. He might have been able to get Moss for a reasonable deal but he's done a good overall job and missing out on an aging WR who relied on speed and explosion for one or 2 decent years when we're not going anywhere anyway doesn't really bother me at all. I can udnerstand it bothering Brett becasue he could have looked great going out but in the grand scheme this does very little in the way of lessening our chances at winning a SB some day. It's a much bigger loss to Brett than it is for the team and I could care less about Brett Favre so I"m not up in arms about this.

[pbmax]

Does this mean we need to accept everything? Is there no space between worship/lifetime pass and taking it all for granted?


Well then we disagree. Favre earned the right to say whatever the hell he wants to say. He earned it by playing with injuries when NO ONE else in this league would have even tried. He earned it by having a career game on national tv after his father died. He has earned the right by giving us everything he has. It's very sad that people like you take these things for granted like it means nothing at all..........

[GrnBay007]

He wants to win. The QB is there. Why is it so bad to want to go out on a winning season?


There's a difference between wanting to win, and publically calling out your GM for being a dumbass. I don't mind him lobbying internally. I do mind him running his mouth in the press.

You don't hear the organization publically whining about Favre's stupid interceptions. Brett should show them the same courtesy.

Favre has showed nothing but loyalty to the Packer organization for 17 years. He's been a team player all the time. I don't believe him voicing his opinion was wrong.

[Scott Campbell]

The ball is now in Thompsons court to respond.


You really expect Ted to respond to this? I'd take that bet.

[pbmax]

If you like having Walker on the team, then yes it is bad. There is a difference between being right and having good timing. It also violated a pretty standard rule that you don't dump on a teammate trying to get paid.





I think you are being a bit naive in you reverence for Favre. He has been complaining about the off season activities of the team for three years, not qietly sitting back, saying nothing. If he wants weapons so badly, why did he alienate Walker?

He called out Walker for not sticking to his contract.....is that bad?




He KNOWS he is no longer the future of the Green Bay Packers, and he can't stand it! He can't accept that they are actually planning to go on without him, drafting a QB for the future, building the base for the team for years from now, etc. Consequently, he seeks constant reaffirmation from the team that they still "love Brett Favre".



He wants to win. The QB is there. Why is it so bad to want to go out on a winning season?

[BallHawk]

[quote=Patler]

I think you are being a bit naive in you reverence for Favre. He has been complaining about the off season activities of the team for three years, not qietly sitting back, saying nothing. If he wants weapons so badly, why did he alienate Walker?

He called out Walker for not sticking to his contract.....is that bad?/quote]

Even though we knew what Favre said was right, it isn't his business. I could understand him talking to Walker privately, but saying it in public was an extremely stupid thing to do.

Favre is a great guy, but sometimes he comes out with things that make you think "why did he say that." There are plenty of QBs that are disgruntled in the league, but that doesn't give them the right to speak out.

[Patler]

Favre earned the right to say whatever the hell he wants to say. He earned it by playing with injuries when NO ONE else in this league would have even tried. He earned it by having a career game on national tv after his father died. He has earned the right by giving us everything he has. It's very sad that people like you take these things for granted like it means nothing at all..........

Having the right to do something doesn't mean that you should do it.
Having the right to do something doesn't mean that it is wise to do it.
Having the right to do something doesn't mean that it isn't detrimental to do it.

Sports annals are filled with stories of athletes playing with broken bones and serious injuries, not just Brett Favre. To say he played with injuries when "NO ONE else in this league would have even tried" is simply not true. Earl Dotson played for years with a back that was so bad it took him hours to lossen up just to be able to play. A few years back Marco Rivera continued playing for weeks when his leg and back were so bad that he couldn't play the whole game, yet he continued going out there week after week for however long he could last. Favre simply gets more notoriety because of his position and success. Favre is a tough son of gun. So was Lynn Dickey, so was Earl Dotson, so is Marco Rivera. So were the many, many players who continued to play with concussions and other serious injuries. Favre just gets more credit for it. Not all are like him, but he is not unique in that regard.

Yes, Brett Favre played the day after his father died. Didn't Nick Barnett do the same two years ago? How about what Jon Ryan did this year inspite of his fathers situation? My own Father died early one morning. I had to work that day and the next before the critical matters I was handling at the time could be stalled or assigned to others so I could leave. Sometimes in spite of your own feelings, your obligations to others who rely on you dictate what you do.

The adulation given Favre goes way overboard at times.

[Scott Campbell]

I don't believe him voicing his opinion was wrong.


Ok. So tell me then, what purpose does it serve?

[BallHawk]

The ball is now in Thompsons court to respond.


You really expect Ted to respond to this? I'd take that bet.

Wonder what the Vegas odds are on that one?

[Scott Campbell]

To say he played with injuries when "NO ONE else in this league would have even tried" is simply not true.


Who has time for the truth when you're trying to rile up a lynch mob?

[BallHawk]

Favre earned the right to say whatever the hell he wants to say. He earned it by playing with injuries when NO ONE else in this league would have even tried. He earned it by having a career game on national tv after his father died. He has earned the right by giving us everything he has. It's very sad that people like you take these things for granted like it means nothing at all..........

Having the right to do something doesn't mean that you should do it.
Having the right to do something doesn't mean that it is wise to do it.
Having the right to do something doesn't mean that it isn't detrimental to do it.

Sports annals are filled with stories of athletes playing with broken bones and serious injuries, not just Brett Favre. To say he played with injuries when "NO ONE else in this league would have even tried" is simply not true. Earl Dotson played for years with a back that was so bad it took him hours to lossen up just to be able to play. A few years back Marco Rivera continued playing for weeks when his leg and back were so bad that he couldn't play the whole game, yet he continued going out there week after week for however long he could last. Favre simply gets more notoriety because of his position and success. Favre is a tough son of gun. So was Lynn Dickey, so was Earl Dotson, so is Marco Rivera. So were the many, many players who continued to play with concussions and other serious injuries. Favre just gets more credit for it. Not all are like him, but he is not unique in that regard.

Yes, Brett Favre played the day after his father died. Didn't Nick Barnett do the same two years ago? How about what Jon Ryan did this year inspite of his fathers situation? My own Father died early one morning. I had to work that day and the next before the critical matters I was handling at the time could be stalled or assigned to others so I could leave. Sometimes in spite of your own feelings, your obligations to others who rely on you dictate what you do.

The adulation given Favre goes way overboard at times.

Once again Patler, you hit the nail on the head.

[pbmax]

Who is full of themselves?

Is T2 telling Favre who to throw to in 3 wides on 3rd and seven with the defense in cover 2?

Or is it the QB who thinks he is a GM?

Do you really believe that Favre is a better judge of talent than the GM?


If one were not completely full of ones own self, one might think that Favre might have learned a thing or two about what it takes to field a winning team.

[PackerBlues]

Here we go again talking about the future. Favre is not the future of the GB Packers? Brilliant, what made you think that? Favre's age, or Ted Thompson's lack of respect for Favre? How much longer are we going to have to listen to people talk about how in the future, the Packers are going to be better because Ted Thompson is such a genius? If your subscriptin to "The Psychic Network" has not run out yet, please tell us all when exactly we can expect Thompsons brilliance to field a team that can score points.

[RashanGary]

Who is full of themselves?

Is T2 telling Favre who to throw to in 3 wides on 3rd and seven with the defense in cover 2?

Or is it the QB who thinks he is a GM?

Do you really believe that Favre is a better judge of talent than the GM?


If one were not completely full of ones own self, one might think that Favre might have learned a thing or two about what it takes to field a winning team.

There is no room for perspective here.

[PackerBlues]

Favre earned the right to say whatever the hell he wants to say. He earned it by playing with injuries when NO ONE else in this league would have even tried. He earned it by having a career game on national tv after his father died. He has earned the right by giving us everything he has. It's very sad that people like you take these things for granted like it means nothing at all..........

Having the right to do something doesn't mean that you should do it.
Having the right to do something doesn't mean that it is wise to do it.
Having the right to do something doesn't mean that it isn't detrimental to do it.

Sports annals are filled with stories of athletes playing with broken bones and serious injuries, not just Brett Favre. To say he played with injuries when "NO ONE else in this league would have even tried" is simply not true. Earl Dotson played for years with a back that was so bad it took him hours to lossen up just to be able to play. A few years back Marco Rivera continued playing for weeks when his leg and back were so bad that he couldn't play the whole game, yet he continued going out there week after week for however long he could last. Favre simply gets more notoriety because of his position and success. Favre is a tough son of gun. So was Lynn Dickey, so was Earl Dotson, so is Marco Rivera. So were the many, many players who continued to play with concussions and other serious injuries. Favre just gets more credit for it. Not all are like him, but he is not unique in that regard.

Yes, Brett Favre played the day after his father died. Didn't Nick Barnett do the same two years ago? How about what Jon Ryan did this year inspite of his fathers situation? My own Father died early one morning. I had to work that day and the next before the critical matters I was handling at the time could be stalled or assigned to others so I could leave. Sometimes in spite of your own feelings, your obligations to others who rely on you dictate what you do.

The adulation given Favre goes way overboard at times.

Once again Patler, you hit the nail on the head.

And of coarse, None of these guys that you mention playing through adversity ever looked at Favre for inspiration while doing it. Nailed it on the head? More like the blind leading the blind. Pat yourselves on the back some more.

[Scott Campbell]

If your subscriptin to "The physic network" has not run out yet.............


The physic network????

LOL

[BallHawk]

Packer Blues, in all due respect, you're just saying the same thing 10 different times and rewording it a bit. You're obviously so focused on trashing TT that you can't just think for a moment about what's being said.

[falco]

Favre had two of the ten best wide receivers in the league. Based on Drivers performance last year, I would say Walker/Driver would be the best two man tandem in the league (even over Harrison/Wayne? maybe) and Walker/Driver/Jennings would be just awesome.

So he can put a little bit of the blame on himself for not having "weapons".

[RashanGary]

Nice perspective Patler. I can understand those who admire Brett because they watched him go through it and feel like they shared it. There is a very natural tendency for people to have skewed views of reality when self-perception gets in the way. They saw it, therefor it is more heroic than everyday suffering.

It should be applauded but it doesn't give Favre any more leverage than it gives you at your job. He's living life and dealing with the hardships that come with it. Good job to him, but it's hardely a free pass to anything.

[PaCkFan_n_MD]

Favre is the most selfish, me first athlete I've watched closely and it's not even close.



I'd feel pretty good about a Favre retirement right now. He's a decent QB at this time with a big time me first attitude and 2 years at most in front of him. If he wants to retire, I'd be just as much of a Packer fan and just as excited as if he stays.

Just because Favre says something is so, doesn't make it so. His mouth has been chirping controversy for a long time. Every big time drama has Brett right in the middle. If it's the player who is making it hard on Brett like with Walker, Brett will stab the player in the back. If it's the organization making it hard on Brett, Favre will stab them in the back. I wouldn't want to work with Brett Favre. You always feel like you mgiht be the next guy to get back stabbed if you don't do it his way.

There are so many things wrong with this post! How is Favre selfish? Favre voicing his opinion does not make him selfish. Plus he didn't totally rip the team, he still said the packers is a first class organization but they should of gotten Moss to help the team win. I don't see the problem in that. It just shows me how bad Favre wants to win and how he wants to bring a super bowl title back to GB before he's gone. But I guess that doesn't matter to you because you want him to retire. :roll: :crazy:

After reading these articles I would also be mad if I was Favre. Favre said he would give up some of his salary so money wouldn’t be a problem and all the packers had to do was up the pick one round to get Moss.

[Bretsky]

Question to everyone who thinks Favre speaking out is right....

If any other player on the Packers said this, would it be acceptable?


Plz note thread one when I noted Favre speaking out was NOT right

But his feelings reflect my own so what he did does not bother me much

And I'm glad to hear this riff raff of excuses for TT not making the deal happen appear to be wrong

The guy wants to win now; I've never thought he was that bright and it wasn't smart to air out his feelings in public.

[Bretsky]

The ball is now in Thompsons court to respond.


You really expect Ted to respond to this? I'd take that bet.


You are right there; Ted will stay in his shell as he had this offseason.

[RashanGary]

And of coarse, None of these guys that you mention playing through adversity ever looked at Favre for inspiration while doing it. Nailed it on the head? More like the blind leading the blind. Pat yourselves on the back some more.

I'd say GM Favre rallying his merry band of sheep is more worthy of the "blind leading the blind" reference.

[GrnBay007]

The ball is now in Thompsons court to respond.


You really expect Ted to respond to this? I'd take that bet.


You are right there; Ted will stay in his shell as he had this offseason.

LOL ....and save his (GB's) money.

[Bretsky]

Well, at least there is new news.

I was worried if we wouldn't have a new Packer topic to discuss until August :lol:

[pbmax]

Find me the Super Bowl winner (or even consistent winner) that took an aging 34+ QB, built for now and had sucess.


Here we go again talking about the future. Favre is not the future of the GB Packers? Brilliant, what made you think that? Favre's age, or Ted Thompson's lack of respect for Favre? How much longer are we going to have to listen to people talk about how in the future, the Packers are going to be better because Ted Thompson is such a genius? If your subscriptin to "The Psychic Network" has not run out yet, please tell us all when exactly we can expect Thompsons brilliance to field a team that can score points.

[PackerBlues]

Packer Blues, in all due respect, you're just saying the same thing 10 different times and rewording it a bit. You're obviously so focused on trashing TT that you can't just think for a moment about what's being said.

Thats funny, here I thought I was defending Favre's right to speak out on an issue that affects him a great deal, and you see TT bashing.

Not one single person has stepped up to address how little Thompson has done to improve our offense. 3 years of nothing. But rather than come up with any kind of plausible argument as to why our offense is nothing more than a shell of what it was when Thompson took over, you want to bash Favre for telling the truth and speaking the obvious.

[pbmax]

Does the likely improvement of the offensive line or 2nd year Greg Jennings count as improvement of the offense?

Or are we just talking about the Free Agents that haven't signed this year?



Packer Blues, in all due respect, you're just saying the same thing 10 different times and rewording it a bit. You're obviously so focused on trashing TT that you can't just think for a moment about what's being said.

Thats funny, here I thought I was defending Favre's right to speak out on an issue that affects him a great deal, and you see TT bashing.

Not one single person has stepped up to address how little Thompson has done to improve our offense. 3 years of nothing. But rather than come up with any kind of plausible argument as to why our offense is nothing more than a shell of what it was when Thompson took over, you want to bash Favre for telling the truth and speaking the obvious.

[b bulldog]

Why in the hell should TT commit to a guy that is 37 years old and for the last three seasons hasn't made known his intentions for the following year till at least one month after the season and as long as four to five months after the season. Brett himself has had trouble committing to this team as of late.

[Scott Campbell]

Plus he didn't totally rip the team, he still said the packers is a first class organization but ..........



Yeah, the key part of this phrase was "but". He pandered a bit to his fan base to keep from taking too much heat.

It was a public attack on Thompson. Look at how the lynch mob here reacted.

[b bulldog]

It is too bad that all of this is going on. Brett was a great talent, a first ballot HOfer but he is not the future, is he! TT is molding this team for the next few years, rightly or wrongly??

[Spaulding]

What I'm curious to know is how this affects the younger players on the Packers with Favre calling out Thompson. Is this going to jade them down the road where if they become All-Pro's that they feel entitled to play GM??

Although I understand Favre's frustration, I view it as him being selfish and wanting whatever gives him the best chance of winning. Thompson however views this as team sport and that stop gap measures may mean a few more wins any given year but do little for the long term health of the organization.

As Packer fans we all want victories and a shot at the Superbowl but all these voicings of Favre deserving TT's attention to supply him with weapons seems a bit misguided. Favre deserves our appreciation but does not a GM who will do whatever it takes for Favre to go out in a blaze of glory. Last I checked, Favre was getting a handsome check to play a game. He thrives on being the guy (I was in the Army with a guy in his college fraternity who suggested he was that way in college and although he may have matured with age it seems to fit his persona) and I agree with Patler's comments on that he's having a hard time swallowing an organization that is moving in a direction not centered around him. Sherman's continual attempts to cater to Favre's desire didn't lead us to the promised land and I've no reason to believe that an older Favre would lead us there even with Ahman Green and Randy Moss. Maybe I'm wrong there, then again who knows for sure.

Anyways, as the HOF QB of the organization and the undisputed leader of the team I expect more from him than throwing his GM under the bus. He's certainly entitled to his opinion but ultimately what is it serving to do other than act as a vent and drive further the polar views of Thompson fans and Thompson haters.

Nobody is above the team just as nobody should be above the law. Favre seems to often forget that.

It will be interesting to see if TT's rebuilding plan succeeds or fails. Given it's in year three we should know shortly. The one fear would be mediocrity and having wasted the final years of our HOF quarterback. Regardless, I don't believe any player earns a right to bash their organization unless they want to play elsewhere. If that's Favre's intent unfortunately I don't think he'll find the grass any greener elsewhere with a team aiming for the superbowl and taking on a 37 year old quarterback in an attempt to do so.

[b bulldog]

If we did land Moss, would he have been the missing piece of the puzzle? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: Not a chance. If we would have struggled, he would have been a malcontent in the lockerroom.

[Patler]

Favre has been a Pro Athlete for half of his life. Half of his life for the Green and Gold. If one were not completely full of ones own self, one might think that Favre might have learned a thing or two about what it takes to field a winning team.
Favre's comments are undermining the team? No, they undermine Ted Thompson. Huge difference. I am more than sure that Brett understands how his comments come across, and the only person I see suffering from such comments is your beloved Ted Thompson. The ball is now in Thompsons court to respond. I am suprised it took Favre this long to say anything, I am glad that he spoke up. I seriously doubt that at this point Favre cares about being in a "confrontation" with Thompson. Whats teddy going to do? Cut him? Trade him? He doesnt have the balls!!!

How long was Matt Millen a player? What did it teach him about being a GM? There are lots and lots of HOF players in all sports who failed miserably as coaches, GMs and even owners.

TT has been involved in the NFL as a player and in various levels of scouting and football operations for a lot longer than Favre has. Maybe he too has learned a thing or two about what it takes to field a winning team. Perhaps he even knows more about it than Favre does because his experience is a lot more diverse. Being a great player doesn't make you a great coach or GM. Being an also-ran as player doesn't make you a bad GM or coach. Your god-given physical talent and abilities as a player are distinct from your acumen in judging talent and your wisdom and abilty to run a football operation.

Favre has been complaining for three years. He hasn't just now spoken up. His comments can undermine the team by casting it in a negative light in the eyes of other prospective FAs, by setting up controversy with those players who may not have wanted Moss and/or believe TT is doing things right, and by establishing a belief among the receivers, including the rookie receivers, that Favre doesn't think they are good enough or capable of getting the job done.

This shouldn't be a battle between TT and Favre. I hope TT doesn't let it degrade into that, and it doesn't have anything to do with courage or guts..

[pbmax]

I found one who was thirty-three when he took over, of course, the team he was on was already pretty good. How you doing?


Find me the Super Bowl winner (or even consistent winner) that took an aging 34+ QB, built for now and had sucess.


Here we go again talking about the future. Favre is not the future of the GB Packers? Brilliant, what made you think that? Favre's age, or Ted Thompson's lack of respect for Favre? How much longer are we going to have to listen to people talk about how in the future, the Packers are going to be better because Ted Thompson is such a genius? If your subscriptin to "The Psychic Network" has not run out yet, please tell us all when exactly we can expect Thompsons brilliance to field a team that can score points.

[b bulldog]

Sad situation, everyone involved looks bad.

[GrnBay007]

Look at how the lynch mob here reacted.

Lynch mob? lol

I'd say Favre is the one getting lynched. Hope you all remember that during the season when he's giving it his all ........with ummm....oh yeah he and Driver.

[Scott Campbell]

Thats funny, here I thought I was defending Favre's right to speak out on an issue that affects him a great deal, and you see TT bashing.


Ummmmm......maybe that's because you are TT bashing.



........Brilliant, what made you think that? Favre's age, or Ted Thompson's lack of respect for Favre? ............. the Packers are going to be better because Ted Thompson is such a genius? ....................please tell us all when exactly we can expect Thompsons brilliance to field a team that can score points.

[Rastak]

I guess Scott was right, his attack on Thompson was quite possibly well thought out. See the Favre asks to be traded thread just up. Glazer is usually pretty good....it's a better source than PFT.com

[Scott Campbell]

Look at how the lynch mob here reacted.

Lynch mob? lol

I'd Favre is the one getting lynched. Hope you all remember that during the season when he's giving it his all ........with ummm....oh yeah he and Driver.


Favre get's pleny of love from me. I have no interest in seeing him lynched/traded/retired. But a gag rule might not be a bad thing.

[pbmax]

Complaining for three years is accurate. Publicly lobbying for six years is more telling, I believe.


Favre has been complaining for three years. He hasn't just now spoken up.

[GrnBay007]

Complaining for three years is accurate. Publicly lobbying for six years is more telling, I believe.


Favre has been complaining for three years. He hasn't just now spoken up.


Oh well, call it publicly lobbying. You know what....everyone needs to do it. You can't even get proper medical care anymore unless you are your own advocate. More power to him.

[Scott Campbell]

What I'm curious to know is how this affects the younger players on the Packers with Favre calling out Thompson. Is this going to jade them down the road where if they become All-Pro's that they feel entitled to play GM??


That is exactly why you don't want players speaking out against the organization, regardless of their stature among the faithful.

[GrnBay007]

Look at how the lynch mob here reacted.

Lynch mob? lol

I'd Favre is the one getting lynched. Hope you all remember that during the season when he's giving it his all ........with ummm....oh yeah he and Driver.


Favre get's pleny of love from me. I have no interest in seeing him lynched/traded/retired. But a gag rule might not be a bad thing.

Everyone has their limits ...maybe he met his.

[RashanGary]

There are so many things wrong with this post! How is Favre selfish? Favre voicing his opinion does not make him selfish. Plus he didn't totally rip the team, he still said the packers is a first class organization but they should of gotten Moss to help the team win. I don't see the problem in that. It just shows me how bad Favre wants to win and how he wants to bring a super bowl title back to GB before he's gone. But I guess that doesn't matter to you because you want him to retire. :roll: :crazy:

After reading these articles I would also be mad if I was Favre. Favre said he would give up some of his salary so money wouldn’t be a problem and all the packers had to do was up the pick one round to get Moss.

He could have said "I hoped for Randy Moss but things didn't work out that way"

He didn't have to say that it could have happened this way or that way publicly. I hope Thompson gets his chance to see this thing through despite Brett's clamouring. I hope the Packers flourish in the near future, including this season adn I think all of that is possible.

[Scott Campbell]

Everyone has their limits ...maybe he met his.


Ok, so let's pretend for a moment that it's ok for him to do so. I'll ask this again. What purpose does it serve?

[Scott Campbell]

You know what....everyone needs to do it.


Ask yourself this. What would Vince do in this situation?


I think his handling of Jim Ringo may provide a clue.

[RashanGary]

Why in the hell should TT commit to a guy that is 37 years old and for the last three seasons hasn't made known his intentions for the following year till at least one month after the season and as long as four to five months after the season. Brett himself has had trouble committing to this team as of late.

That's his way of trying to force the GM's hand. I think the world of TT for doing what he believes is right despite the pressures from Brett Favre.

[GrnBay007]

What I'm curious to know is how this affects the younger players on the Packers with Favre calling out Thompson. Is this going to jade them down the road where if they become All-Pro's that they feel entitled to play GM??


That is exactly why you don't want players speaking out against the organization, regardless of their stature among the faithful.

I would guess plenty on the team would be backing him. They want to WIN too!

I'm not saying calling out the boss is completely right. But I do think that TT has had plenty of time and chances to bring in some players and has not done so. It was understandable when money was the issue.....doesn't seem to be the case now. Who can blame Favre for being upset? ......well, sorry, lots of PR members obviously.

[pbmax]

I agree on this point, about health care, education and a whole raft of services.

However, you and I pay for those services. Favre is getting paid by the people he is making demands of. The situation is reversed in his case.



Complaining for three years is accurate. Publicly lobbying for six years is more telling, I believe.


Favre has been complaining for three years. He hasn't just now spoken up.


Oh well, call it publicly lobbying. You know what....everyone needs to do it. You can't even get proper medical care anymore unless you are your own advocate. More power to him.

[b bulldog]

vINCE WOULD HAVE TRADED HIM YESTERDAY!!!!

[Rastak]

Oh oh, packinpatland just opened the door, you guys better scatter......

[Scott Campbell]

Who can blame Favre for being upset? ......well, sorry, lots of PR members obviously.


Well, it's beginning to look like there was more to it than that. He needs a scapegoat for his trade request, or he tarnishes his leagacy. Thompson is the convenient choice.

[GrnBay007]

Everyone has their limits ...maybe he met his.


Ok, so let's pretend for a moment that it's ok for him to do so. I'll ask this again. What purpose does it serve?

Well, being quiet didn't work, did it?

[Rastak]

Everyone has their limits ...maybe he met his.


Ok, so let's pretend for a moment that it's ok for him to do so. I'll ask this again. What purpose does it serve?

Well, being quiet didn't work, did it?

Not a bad retort. I think Scott was right though, his comments were intentional. For the record, I don't think they were that bad, but probably unwarrented unlass there was an ulterior motive....which now seems to be the case.

[falco]

Again, Favre doing this publicly just hurts everyone.

[PackerBlues]

He could have said "I hoped for Randy Moss but things didn't work out that way"

He didn't have to say that it could have happened this way or that way publicly. I hope Thompson gets his chance to see this thing through despite Brett's clamouring. I hope the Packers flourish in the near future, including this season adn I think all of that is possible.

So now its all about semantics? Since when have Packer fans become such pussies? Oh no! Brett Favre spoke up and told the truth......we could have had Randy Moss if Ted had actually tried. Big freakin deal. Its not as if the same thing hasnt been repeated over and over again in the media before Favre said it. But now that he has said it, it has become credible, and that is what bothers you guys the most. The simple fact that all this time you have all argued that "we just dont know what happened to make the deal fall apart". We just didnt have the "inside knowledge" to make any kind of a judgement either way. Well, now we know!
For anyone to worry about how all of this will look to our rookies, or to any free agents on the market is ridiculous! How politically correct do we have to become to worry about hurting the feelings of some rookie? Scaring off free agents? Who cares, if they are of any value what-so-ever, Thompson wouldnt sign them anyway. Especially if they play on offense.

Maybe the grass is not always greener on the other side, but with Thompson at the helm........we are never going to find out.

[GrnBay007]

I agree on this point, about health care, education and a whole raft of services.

However, you and I pay for those services. Favre is getting paid by the people he is making demands of. The situation is reversed in his case.




So in your job or career you have never had to lobby for yourself? Any time you put forth effort to move ahead you lobbying for yourself. Favre is trying to move ahead.....AKA winning record/championships.

[Patler]

And of coarse, None of these guys that you mention playing through adversity ever looked at Favre for inspiration while doing it. Nailed it on the head? More like the blind leading the blind. Pat yourselves on the back some more.

Good gosh, those were just recent examples that came to mind. Playing through injuries and pain didn't begin with Brett Favre.

In the 1960s Jerry Kramer continued to play with excruciating pain and unexplained weight loss. It was finally determined, when he almost died, that he had a "sliver" about 6" or 8" long embedded in his gut. It was from a childhood accident when he fell and impaled himself on a fence post.

Ken Bowman played with a shoulder that was so bad they hooked a chain between his upper arm and chest to minimize the frequency of dislocations.

These are just some notable stories from the Packers that come to mind. I'm sure there are more. Other teams in football and in other sports have their own stories.

Dick Butkus played with knees so bad they say he could barely walk the day after games. These were common situations in the days before arthroscopic knee repairs.

Mike Webster continued to play after significant injuries and repeated consussions.

I don't think any of these took their inspiration from Favre.

[Scott Campbell]

Since when have Packer fans become such pussies?


Who cares, if they are of any value what-so-ever, Thompson wouldnt sign them anyway. Especially if they play on offense.


Once again, you add no value to this conversation.

[packinpatland]

Teach me to sleep in late!
What the hell is going on here?
The posts are piling up faster than I can read 'em.


I thought this was just going to be one of those nice, relaxing Mother's Days. :(
Can someone with no bias one way or the other condense/recap all this for me?

[Rastak]

Teach me to sleep in late!
What the hell is going on here?
The posts are piling up faster than I can read 'em.


I thought this was just going to be one of those nice, relaxing Mother's Days. :(
Can someone with no bias one way or the other condense/recap all this for me?

Favre ripped Thompson, then Jay Glazer is now reporting Favre called TT and requested a trade. Don't read this whole thread, it'll screw up your blood preasure.

[GrnBay007]

Teach me to sleep in late!
What the hell is going on here?
The posts are piling up faster than I can read 'em.


I thought this was just going to be one of those nice, relaxing Mother's Days. :(
Can someone with no bias one way or the other condense/recap all this for me?

The majority are ganging up on Brett for his statements regarding TT not getting Moss.

I need a nap. Happy Mother's Day. :D

[RashanGary]

Well, now we know!


I don't think what Favre says is necessarily so. He might feel his pride knocked because Randy liked Tom better. It has a little scorned lover feel to it.

That said, I'm not all that upset about Moss anyway. It sounds like his body is falling apart and he hasn't been very productive in a few years.

[Scott Campbell]

Teach me to sleep in late!
What the hell is going on here?
The posts are piling up faster than I can read 'em.


I thought this was just going to be one of those nice, relaxing Mother's Days. :(
Can someone with no bias one way or the other condense/recap all this for me?

The majority are ganging up on Brett for his statements regarding TT not getting Moss.

I need a nap. Happy Mother's Day. :D


I don't think it's a majority. Off the cuff, I'd say the sentiment seems pretty evenly split.

Your side seems to be ganging up on Ted for making Brett ornery enough to vent to the media.

[Scott Campbell]

So in your job or career you have never had to lobby for yourself?


I've never gone to the press to put pressure on my employer for anything. And I never will.

[falco]

So in your job or career you have never had to lobby for yourself?


I've never gone to the press to put pressure on my employer for anything. And I never will.

I only did once, but that was to blow the whistle on Phillip Morris and their horrible business practices...but FYI I was very poorly portrayed in the movie the Insider (although I do look much like Russell Crowe).

But nothing as important as what Favre is doing here.

[Patler]

Not one single person has stepped up to address how little Thompson has done to improve our offense. 3 years of nothing. But rather than come up with any kind of plausible argument as to why our offense is nothing more than a shell of what it was when Thompson took over, you want to bash Favre for telling the truth and speaking the obvious.

Does my post a couple days ago explaining that TT has invested more first day draft picks on the offense than on the defense not qualify? And that he signed 2 FAs that were former 1st round draft picks.

He drafted a QB in the first round
He signed 2 WRs that were former 1st picks.
He drafted 2 WRs in the second round.
He drafted 1 RB in the second round.
He drafted 1 WR in the third round
He traded for a RB drafted in the third round.
He drafted 1 WR in the 4th round.
He drafted 1 WR in the 5th round.
He drafted 1 RB in the 7th round.
He drafted 1 TE in the 7th round.

Now should we list the O-linemen?

[pbmax]

Certainly, but there are limits to what an employee can do.

If you make the work environment hostile or toxic, you can expect to be tossed aside without needing to ask.

And there is no correlation between that and publicly questioning your role in the paper.



I agree on this point, about health care, education and a whole raft of services.

However, you and I pay for those services. Favre is getting paid by the people he is making demands of. The situation is reversed in his case.




So in your job or career you have never had to lobby for yourself? Any time you put forth effort to move ahead you lobbying for yourself. Favre is trying to move ahead.....AKA winning record/championships.

[Bretsky]

Well, now we know!


I don't think what Favre says is necessarily so. He might feel his pride knocked because Randy liked Tom better. It has a little scorned lover feel to it.

That said, I'm not all that upset about Moss anyway. It sounds like his body is falling apart and he hasn't been very productive in a few years.


Please; this had nothing to do with Moss liking anybody. Al Davis got a better offer from the Patriots and TT was not willing to give up a fourth rounder.........maybe the right call and maybe not.........who knows.

Favre really shouldn't have spoken up. Serves no purpose criticizing a GM, even if he was right.

I have no idea why the Plan of Ted Thompson would have ever included Favre in the first place

[Scott Campbell]

I only did once, but that was to blow the whistle on Phillip Morris and their horrible business practices...but FYI I was very poorly portrayed in the movie the Insider (although I do look much like Russell Crowe).

But nothing as important as what Favre is doing here.


I think this is relative in this conversation because some in here would have you believe that Thompson is probably responsible for nicotine additives in their smokes.

[Spaulding]

Well, now we know!


I don't think what Favre says is necessarily so. He might feel his pride knocked because Randy liked Tom better. It has a little scorned lover feel to it.

That said, I'm not all that upset about Moss anyway. It sounds like his body is falling apart and he hasn't been very productive in a few years.


Please; this had nothing to do with Moss liking anybody. Al Davis got a better offer from the Patriots and TT was not willing to give up a fourth rounder.........maybe the right call and maybe not.........who knows.

Favre really shouldn't have spoken up. Serves no purpose criticizing a GM, even if he was right.

I have no idea why the Plan of Ted Thompson would have ever included Favre in the first place

Bretsky, to be fair to TT, how do you plan for the future of an organization where annually he's still trying to decide whether to retire or not. And for TT bashers, this was an issue prior to TT becoming GM.

To be fair to Favre though, is it really that much to ask of TT to give up one of the almost dozen "precious" draft choices to take a flyer on a prior All Pro wide receiver who may give the offense the injection of life they so badly need?

Both parties are at fault. Ultimately though one is paid to be a general manager and another is paid to play.

[Cheesehead Craig]

Well, now we know!


I don't think what Favre says is necessarily so. He might feel his pride knocked because Randy liked Tom better. It has a little scorned lover feel to it.

That said, I'm not all that upset about Moss anyway. It sounds like his body is falling apart and he hasn't been very productive in a few years.


Please; this had nothing to do with Moss liking anybody. Al Davis got a better offer from the Patriots and TT was not willing to give up a fourth rounder.........maybe the right call and maybe not.........who knows.

Favre really shouldn't have spoken up. Serves no purpose criticizing a GM, even if he was right.

I have no idea why the Plan of Ted Thompson would have ever included Favre in the first place
Stop it Brestsky, you're making too much sense.

[packinpatland]

Teach me to sleep in late!
What the hell is going on here?
The posts are piling up faster than I can read 'em.


I thought this was just going to be one of those nice, relaxing Mother's Days. :(
Can someone with no bias one way or the other condense/recap all this for me?

The majority are ganging up on Brett for his statements regarding TT not getting Moss.

I need a nap. Happy Mother's Day. :D


I don't think it's a majority. Off the cuff, I'd say the sentiment seems pretty evenly split.

Your side seems to be ganging up on Ted for making Brett ornery enough to vent to the media.

'MY SIDE'?
I'm not a TT fan, I have been critical (not often) on occasion of Favre.

This whole things just seems too bizzare to ring of real truth.

[Bretsky]

Well, now we know!


I don't think what Favre says is necessarily so. He might feel his pride knocked because Randy liked Tom better. It has a little scorned lover feel to it.

That said, I'm not all that upset about Moss anyway. It sounds like his body is falling apart and he hasn't been very productive in a few years.


Please; this had nothing to do with Moss liking anybody. Al Davis got a better offer from the Patriots and TT was not willing to give up a fourth rounder.........maybe the right call and maybe not.........who knows.

Favre really shouldn't have spoken up. Serves no purpose criticizing a GM, even if he was right.

I have no idea why the Plan of Ted Thompson would have ever included Favre in the first place
Stop it Brestsky, you're making too much sense.

:glug: :lol:

[PackerBlues]

Does my post a couple days ago explaining that TT has invested more first day draft picks on the offense than on the defense not qualify? And that he signed 2 FAs that were former 1st round draft picks.

He drafted a QB in the first round
He signed 2 WRs that were former 1st picks.
He drafted 2 WRs in the second round.
He drafted 1 RB in the second round.
He drafted 1 WR in the third round
He traded for a RB drafted in the third round.
He drafted 1 WR in the 4th round.
He drafted 1 WR in the 5th round.
He drafted 1 RB in the 7th round.
He drafted 1 TE in the 7th round.

Now should we list the O-linemen?



He drafted a QB in the first round .............Aaron Rogers......it is nice to have somebody there to hold the clip board and keep the bench warm isnt it?

He signed 2 WRs that were former 1st picks. ........... When is Robinson going to contribute if ever? And please remind me as to whom the second is, cause for some reason I am having a hard time remembering who this big contribution to our offense is.


He drafted 2 WRs in the second round. ..........Greg Jennings makes for a great #3 reciever. However their is not a second reciever listed on the team besides Jennings who was picked in the second. (James Jones? Third)

http://www.packers.com/team/how_built/

He drafted 1 RB in the second round. ........... may as well draft a rb, he let Green go, why not replace him.

He drafted 1 WR in the third round ........see above.

He traded for a RB drafted in the third round. .........impressive!

He drafted 1 WR in the 4th round. ..........I am sure that he will prove to be a much better player than the guy we could have got with that pick.

He drafted 1 WR in the 5th round. .......... time to make up for letting Moss slip through his fingers. Brilliant.

He drafted 1 RB in the 7th round. ..........ok, you were already reaching, this is ridiculous.

He drafted 1 TE in the 7th round. ..........ugggg!

[pbmax]

The only player with inside info and on the record disagrees with Bretsky's and Harvey's version of events.

B&H believe it was the fourth rounder.

Favre believes it was the contract.

Could it be that none of them have the complete picture?




Well, now we know!


I don't think what Favre says is necessarily so. He might feel his pride knocked because Randy liked Tom better. It has a little scorned lover feel to it.

That said, I'm not all that upset about Moss anyway. It sounds like his body is falling apart and he hasn't been very productive in a few years.


Please; this had nothing to do with Moss liking anybody. Al Davis got a better offer from the Patriots and TT was not willing to give up a fourth rounder.........maybe the right call and maybe not.........who knows.

Favre really shouldn't have spoken up. Serves no purpose criticizing a GM, even if he was right.

I have no idea why the Plan of Ted Thompson would have ever included Favre in the first place

[Bretsky]

FROM JS

"On the night before the draft, the Packers thought they had a deal with the Raiders for a fifth-round pick, but New England stepped in and began making a strong pitch for Moss. Quarterback Tom Brady reportedly spent hours on the phone recruiting Moss, who eventually agreed to a one-year contract with the Patriots."

[pbmax]

Bretsky, this is also in the other thread, I'm not banging on you, just wanted you to see it.

from: http://www.sunherald.com/228/story/52533.html


"It is disappointing," Favre said. "It was a done deal and the stories of how we lost him because he didn't want to restructure his contract were not true.

"He was going to wipe his contract clean and sign for $3 million guaranteed, plus a fourth-round draft pick. That would have been a steal. But we were not willing to guarantee part of that $3 million. I even had (agent) Bus (Cook) call up there and tell them I would give up part of my salary to guarantee that part of the money. Apparently that wasn't enough either."



FROM JS

"On the night before the draft, the Packers thought they had a deal with the Raiders for a fifth-round pick, but New England stepped in and began making a strong pitch for Moss. Quarterback Tom Brady reportedly spent hours on the phone recruiting Moss, who eventually agreed to a one-year contract with the Patriots."

[Bretsky]

Bretsky, this is also in the other thread, I'm not banging on you, just wanted you to see it.

from: http://www.sunherald.com/228/story/52533.html


"It is disappointing," Favre said. "It was a done deal and the stories of how we lost him because he didn't want to restructure his contract were not true.

"He was going to wipe his contract clean and sign for $3 million guaranteed, plus a fourth-round draft pick. That would have been a steal. But we were not willing to guarantee part of that $3 million. I even had (agent) Bus (Cook) call up there and tell them I would give up part of my salary to guarantee that part of the money. Apparently that wasn't enough either."



FROM JS

"On the night before the draft, the Packers thought they had a deal with the Raiders for a fifth-round pick, but New England stepped in and began making a strong pitch for Moss. Quarterback Tom Brady reportedly spent hours on the phone recruiting Moss, who eventually agreed to a one-year contract with the Patriots."


That is interesting

I have TWO COMMENTS HERE

1. If Ted Thompson refused to part with a 4th round pick and hold to his guns, I can at least respect that.

2. If Ted Thompson truly lost Moss over $3,000,000 a year and Favre offered to give up part of his salary to guarantee this........if that's true
Then Ted Thompson REALLY f'cked this up.

Neither would surprise me I guess.

[Brainerd]

MM frantically calling Favre to calm him down tells us more about Rodgers than I care to know right now. With the offense so in question I don't want to think about Rodgers at QB until I absolutely must. If MM and TT wanted Favre gone they just missed their golden opportunity.

[pbmax]

I doubt either version is the entire truth. But its clear that Moss was playing one side against the other. Otherwise he would not have asked the Packers for guarantees that the Patriots weren't going to give him.



Bretsky, this is also in the other thread, I'm not banging on you, just wanted you to see it.

from: http://www.sunherald.com/228/story/52533.html


"It is disappointing," Favre said. "It was a done deal and the stories of how we lost him because he didn't want to restructure his contract were not true.

"He was going to wipe his contract clean and sign for $3 million guaranteed, plus a fourth-round draft pick. That would have been a steal. But we were not willing to guarantee part of that $3 million. I even had (agent) Bus (Cook) call up there and tell them I would give up part of my salary to guarantee that part of the money. Apparently that wasn't enough either."



FROM JS

"On the night before the draft, the Packers thought they had a deal with the Raiders for a fifth-round pick, but New England stepped in and began making a strong pitch for Moss. Quarterback Tom Brady reportedly spent hours on the phone recruiting Moss, who eventually agreed to a one-year contract with the Patriots."


That is interesting

I have TWO COMMENTS HERE

1. If Ted Thompson refused to part with a 4th round pick and hold to his guns, I can at least respect that.

2. If Ted Thompson truly lost Moss over $3,000,000 a year and Favre offered to give up part of his salary to guarantee this........if that's true
Then Ted Thompson REALLY f'cked this up.

Neither would surprise me I guess.

[Brando19]

http://espn.go.com/
The video is up now of Favre at his golf tournament criticizing the Pack.

[Bretsky]

http://espn.go.com/
The video is up now of Favre at his golf tournament criticizing the Pack.


After watching that video, my only views are...the truth really hurts.

I agree with Favre; we lost out.

That being said, I never thought TT would make this deal work anyways.

[Brando19]

http://espn.go.com/
The video is up now of Favre at his golf tournament criticizing the Pack.


After watching that video, my only views are...the truth really hurts.

I agree with Favre; we lost out.

That being said, I never thought TT would make this deal work anyways.

Hell yeah we lost out. Hell yeah.

[packers11]

He looks a lot older, he looks like he hasn't slept in a week :? ... T.T. I think he has your picture up on his dart board... :lol:

[Patler]

He drafted a QB in the first round .............Aaron Rogers......it is nice to have somebody there to hold the clip board and keep the bench warm isnt it?

He signed 2 WRs that were former 1st picks. ........... When is Robinson going to contribute if ever? And please remind me as to whom the second is, cause for some reason I am having a hard time remembering who this big contribution to our offense is.


He drafted 2 WRs in the second round. ..........Greg Jennings makes for a great #3 reciever. However their is not a second reciever listed on the team besides Jennings who was picked in the second. (James Jones? Third)

http://www.packers.com/team/how_built/

He drafted 1 RB in the second round. ........... may as well draft a rb, he let Green go, why not replace him.

He drafted 1 WR in the third round ........see above.

He traded for a RB drafted in the third round. .........impressive!

He drafted 1 WR in the 4th round. ..........I am sure that he will prove to be a much better player than the guy we could have got with that pick.

He drafted 1 WR in the 5th round. .......... time to make up for letting Moss slip through his fingers. Brilliant.

He drafted 1 RB in the 7th round. ..........ok, you were already reaching, this is ridiculous.

He drafted 1 TE in the 7th round. ..........ugggg!

He drafted WR Terrence Murphy in the second round. A career ending injury is hardly something you can expect TT to foresee.

You comment as if 2nd and 3rd round draft picks are nobodies. You can't have a team full of 1st round picks. He has drafted more offensive than defensive players on day 1 of the last three drafts. These are the players your team should be built around.

As far as the later picks, no they don't all pan out (neither do the early picks). But Driver, Tauscher, Kampman and Wells have. Maybe one of the more recent ones will too. TT is not ignoring the offense on Day 1 or Day 2 of the drafts.

[esoxx]

MM frantically calling Favre to calm him down tells us more about Rodgers than I care to know right now.

That's actually a pretty good point. I mean, what's the panic since you have a first round pick that has had the chance to sit back the last two years and absorb the offense and assimilate himself with the workings of the Packers and NFL. I'd think you'd be chomping at the bit to get the guy on the field, regardless of the circumstances. It does seem to send a less than favorable signal of Rodgers.

[falco]

MM frantically calling Favre to calm him down tells us more about Rodgers than I care to know right now.

That's actually a pretty good point. I mean, what's the panic since you have a first round pick that has had the chance to sit back the last two years and absorb the offense and assimilate himself with the workings of the Packers and NFL. I'd think you'd be chomping at the bit to get the guy on the field, regardless of the circumstances. It does seem to send a less than favorable signal of Rodgers.

Right, but who says MM was frantically calling Favre?

The article says "Coach Mike McCarthy immediately began trying to reach Favre by phone, but Favre ignored his calls for a week."

If you're starting QB has his agent call and say he wants to be traded, of course you're going to try to call him. But everyone is reading a lot into this.

[esoxx]

I actually am very interested in seeing Rodgers take over and play, whether it's this year or next (assuming Favre gets traded or retires, neither likely). When Rodgers does get his chance, it will answer a lot of the questions we as Packer fans have.

It will answer whether he can actually play a decent QB. It will answer whether TT was on the mark in evaluating him as a player and worthy of taking as his first choice as Packer GM. A lot more will come into focus.

Until Rodgers starts, TT buys himself more time imo, b/c we really don't know.

[Packers4Ever]

Favre admitted he's not fired up about coming to minicamp, but he said the Packers can expect him to be the same guy he's always been.

He seems kind of depressed...

Yes, I am too!

Can you imagine how sick we will all feel if Moss has an outstanding year?

This is a nasty thing to say but I'll bet I'm not the only one to feel this way. I hope Moss goes back to his "naughty boy" tricks in mid-season 2007, and Belichik is forced to deal with the same old problems.
Was Brett right in speaking out? One has to heartily agree. :twisted:

[green_bowl_packer]

I doubt either version is the entire truth. But its clear that Moss was playing one side against the other. Otherwise he would not have asked the Packers for guarantees that the Patriots weren't going to give him.

I've read that we wanted to pay out part of his salary in weekly bonuses, and that Randy said "no way!". The Packers usually get played as a patsy in situations like this like we did with Arrington, Vinatari, (was there another from 06 FA class?) and now Moss. Players just seem to use us as leverage, we have the money to pay these guys (insert TT cheap joke here), but we're not the first choice anymore like we used to be. I suppose that's why we have to build from within.

This was from PFT on May 1st regarding Randy Moss's new contract.

POSTED 8:38 a.m. EDT; LAST UPDATED 9:35 a.m. EDT, May 1, 2007

MOSS PAY CUT NO SACRIFICE

Our own Taco Bill pointed out an item from ESPN.com's Len Pasquarelli regarding the acquisition of Randy Moss by the Patriots. Len characterizes the decision of Moss to give up his two remaining years of salary at a total $21 million as a "sacrifice." Under his new contract, Moss will be paid (as we've finally confirmed) a $3 million salary and incentives worth up to $2 million more.

But this was no sacrifice. Instead, it was the latest example of the operation of the NFL marketplace.

To say that Moss gave up anywhere from $16 million to $18 million is to presume that the Raiders would have otherwise paid him another penny. It wasn't going to happen. Oakland was ready to move on. (Or move out.) If a trade didn't occur, Moss would have been cut. Probably sooner rather than later.

If he'd been released, the $21 million would have disappeared and Moss would have been forced to troll the NFL waters for a new team.

And, as suggested by the statement contained on Randy's official web site, Moss and his agent, Tim DiPiero, dropped their lines "[s]everal weeks ago," after receiving permission from the Raiders to shop for a trade.

So the real question isn't whether Moss gave up $21 million in Oakland to make up to $5 million in New England; it's whether another team was willing to give him a better deal than the one he signed with the Pats. If so, then the difference between the offer that was rejected elsewhere and his new deal is the real basis for determining the financial sacrifice, if any, that he took to play for the Pats.

Also, don't forget the real prize here. If Moss can "rip up" the NFL in 2007, as he did back in 1998, the money will come in 2008. Especially if Moss caps the season with 10 catches for 165 yards and a couple of touchdowns in the Super Bowl.

If that happens, someone will give him $21 million (or more) with the single stroke of a pen.

BRADY RESTRUCTURED DEAL

Although the contract that Randy Moss has signed with the Patriots will cost a maximum of $5 million in 2007 (which is less than five percent of the team's total cap space), a potential hiccup in the transaction was the requirement that the Pats be able to absorb Randy's $9.75 million cap figure after the trade and before the signing of the new deal.

[pbmax]

Can you please share the audio of M3's "frantic" phone calls?

How is it that you can qualify something you have never heard, then draw a conclusion about a third person based on a complete unknown?


MM frantically calling Favre to calm him down tells us more about Rodgers than I care to know right now. With the offense so in question I don't want to think about Rodgers at QB until I absolutely must. If MM and TT wanted Favre gone they just missed their golden opportunity.

[BallHawk]

Can you please share the audio of M3's "frantic" phone calls?

How is it that you can qualify something you have never heard, then draw a conclusion about a third person based on a complete unknown?


MM frantically calling Favre to calm him down tells us more about Rodgers than I care to know right now. With the offense so in question I don't want to think about Rodgers at QB until I absolutely must. If MM and TT wanted Favre gone they just missed their golden opportunity.

A bullshit rumor gets in motion and there's no stopping it. Nobody knows what Favre wants now, except Favre. And I'm even doubting he knows what he wants.

[Brainerd]

Can you please share the audio of M3's "frantic" phone calls?

How is it that you can qualify something you have never heard, then draw a conclusion about a third person based on a complete unknown?


MM frantically calling Favre to calm him down tells us more about Rodgers than I care to know right now. With the offense so in question I don't want to think about Rodgers at QB until I absolutely must. If MM and TT wanted Favre gone they just missed their golden opportunity.

Because I read the whole article with an open mind without any preconceived notion as to its outcome. Try it sometime.


McCarthy immediately began trying to reach Favre by phone, but Favre ignored his calls for a week

Immediately is defined as without lapse of time; without delay; instantly; at once. If he wasn't frantic then why would he drop everything and immediately call Favre? Why would he care? And why would he continue for a week?

Its amazing what people around here nitpick when they can't handle a situation. It was just a word.

[pbmax]

Really. Well, someone who was reading the article without pre-conceived notions might suggest that "immediately" could mean:

because it was important
soon after
without delay
same day
before the end of business
within the hour

and the reason for the call:

to suggest he think about it
not go public
ask if this meant holdout
ask him to return
assure him the offense will be fine and improve
to see if he's coming to camp
to see if they needed another camp body to throw since ARod is still healing the ankle

But you really have to reach deep and choose one possibility above all else to get to frantic because ARod really, really stinks. And you must assume T2 knows McCarthy doesn't believe in ARod and have given the QB coach only one QB of his own choosing.





Can you please share the audio of M3's "frantic" phone calls?

How is it that you can qualify something you have never heard, then draw a conclusion about a third person based on a complete unknown?


MM frantically calling Favre to calm him down tells us more about Rodgers than I care to know right now. With the offense so in question I don't want to think about Rodgers at QB until I absolutely must. If MM and TT wanted Favre gone they just missed their golden opportunity.

Because I read the whole article with an open mind without any preconceived notion as to its outcome. Try it sometime.


McCarthy immediately began trying to reach Favre by phone, but Favre ignored his calls for a week

Immediately is defined as without lapse of time; without delay; instantly; at once. If he wasn't frantic then why would he drop everything and immediately call Favre? Why would he care? And why would he continue for a week?

Its amazing what people around here nitpick when they can't handle a situation. It was just a word.

[Bretsky]

Can you please share the audio of M3's "frantic" phone calls?

How is it that you can qualify something you have never heard, then draw a conclusion about a third person based on a complete unknown?


MM frantically calling Favre to calm him down tells us more about Rodgers than I care to know right now. With the offense so in question I don't want to think about Rodgers at QB until I absolutely must. If MM and TT wanted Favre gone they just missed their golden opportunity.

A bullshit rumor gets in motion and there's no stopping it. Nobody knows what Favre wants now, except Favre. And I'm even doubting he knows what he wants.


What Favre wants is to win now :lol:

[PaCkFan_n_MD]

Can you please share the audio of M3's "frantic" phone calls?

How is it that you can qualify something you have never heard, then draw a conclusion about a third person based on a complete unknown?


MM frantically calling Favre to calm him down tells us more about Rodgers than I care to know right now. With the offense so in question I don't want to think about Rodgers at QB until I absolutely must. If MM and TT wanted Favre gone they just missed their golden opportunity.

A bullshit rumor gets in motion and there's no stopping it. Nobody knows what Favre wants now, except Favre. And I'm even doubting he knows what he wants.

I know what Favre wanted, not that hard to understand. People talk about blind love for Favre, am beginning I think their is some blind love for TT. :!:

[BallHawk]

Ok, then what did Favre hope to accomplish by making these comments? What was his motive?

[pbmax]

Why would someone trust Favre's motives and distrust T2's motives?

Does anyone think its realistic that the Pack are going to "win now" even with Moss?

[PaCkFan_n_MD]

Why would someone trust Favre's motives and distrust T2's motives?

Does anyone think its realistic that the Pack are going to "win now" even with Moss?

Why not?

Can you honestly say our D is not good?
Can you honestly say our WR's would not be good with Moss?
Is Favre not good?
Will the o-line not improve?

HB and TE would be the remianing question marks. But we do have Franks at TE (maybe he can play decent this year) and a 2nd round pick at RB (which is why I wanted AG signed).

[Bretsky]

Why would someone trust Favre's motives and distrust T2's motives?

Does anyone think its realistic that the Pack are going to "win now" even with Moss?


I felt that the Packers had a good chance of making the playoffs with Moss.

I trust TT's motives.

He's going to do this his way, which happens to be pretty dam slow.
He's not going to take many risks via trades
He's going to cradle those draft picks like they are his firstborn
He's going to play by his rules and sometimes he'll get trumped by another team in his effort.

I'm truly surprised TT was even making a play for Moss; I never expected him to make it happen

[wist43]

Why would someone trust Favre's motives and distrust T2's motives?

Does anyone think its realistic that the Pack are going to "win now" even with Moss?


I felt that the Packers had a good chance of making the playoffs with Moss.

I trust TT's motives.

He's going to do this his way, which happens to be pretty dam slow.
He's not going to take many risks via trades
He's going to cradle those draft picks like they are his firstborn
He's going to play by his rules and sometimes he'll get trumped by another team in his effort.

I'm truly surprised TT was even making a play for Moss; I never expected him to make it happen

I guess I'm surprised that TT even entertained the idea of trading for Moss; but, the low offer is quintessential TT... of course he's going to get outbid.

As for motives??? I don't trust TT.

It's not that I don't think that TT wants to win... but, I think winning "his way" is more important to him that is winning itself.

Given that rookies are FA's after 4 years, and the average NFL contract is 3-4 years... TT's 10 year plan isn't what most Packer fans are looking for - neither is Brett Favre.

[Scott Campbell]

Combined with his "what are they gonna do, cut me?" comment from last summer, it's beginning to look like Favre thinks he can get away with saying almost anything. His use of the press is blatently manipulative.

[Bretsky]

I've never thought Favre was press wise; maybe he was sending a message and maybe he was not. Maybe he's just not smart and doesn't realize the impact a few of his words can have. Or maybe he wanted to send a message. Either way I agree with the message but not with how it was sent.

I also agree with wist; I found it hard to understand that TT would be serious about Moss, but he appeared to be. If he got outbid via a draft pick that does not surprise me one bit.

I do trust TT; but he's going to stubornly do things his way and that means the turtle crossing the road.

[Patler]

I've never thought Favre was press wise; maybe he was sending a message and maybe he was not. Maybe he's just not smart and doesn't realize the impact a few of his words can have. Or maybe he wanted to send a message. Either way I agree with the message but not with how it was sent.

I also agree with wist; I found it hard to understand that TT would be serious about Moss, but he appeared to be. If he got outbid via a draft pick that does not surprise me one bit.

I do trust TT; but he's going to stubornly do things his way and that means the turtle crossing the road.


Or maybe Darren Sharper was at least a bit accurate a couple years ago when he said something to the effect that Favre was more about Favre than fans realized. I totally dismissed it at the time as coming from a disgruntled player who left the Packers. I'm not saying it is completely true now, but maybe there is a little something to it, as the impression of a former, longtime teammate.

[Rastak]

I've never thought Favre was press wise; maybe he was sending a message and maybe he was not. Maybe he's just not smart and doesn't realize the impact a few of his words can have. Or maybe he wanted to send a message. Either way I agree with the message but not with how it was sent.

I also agree with wist; I found it hard to understand that TT would be serious about Moss, but he appeared to be. If he got outbid via a draft pick that does not surprise me one bit.

I do trust TT; but he's going to stubornly do things his way and that means the turtle crossing the road.


Or maybe Darren Sharper was right a couple years ago when he said something to the effect that Favre was more about Favre than fans realized. I totally dismissed it at the time as coming from a disgruntled player who left the Packers. I'm not saying it is completely true now, but maybe there is a little something to it, as the impression of a former, longtime teammate.

Wow, I don't recall that.....when did he say that?

[Patler]

I've never thought Favre was press wise; maybe he was sending a message and maybe he was not. Maybe he's just not smart and doesn't realize the impact a few of his words can have. Or maybe he wanted to send a message. Either way I agree with the message but not with how it was sent.

I also agree with wist; I found it hard to understand that TT would be serious about Moss, but he appeared to be. If he got outbid via a draft pick that does not surprise me one bit.

I do trust TT; but he's going to stubornly do things his way and that means the turtle crossing the road.


Or maybe Darren Sharper was right a couple years ago when he said something to the effect that Favre was more about Favre than fans realized. I totally dismissed it at the time as coming from a disgruntled player who left the Packers. I'm not saying it is completely true now, but maybe there is a little something to it, as the impression of a former, longtime teammate.

Wow, I don't recall that.....when did he say that?

When Sharper first signed with the Vikings, and Favre came out with his criticism of Walker. It might have been in the Minneapolis paper. It was part of an article in which Sharper criticized Favre for butting into Walker's business, when Sharper said Favre would lose respect among players for doing it. With all that, it was the sentence in the article that hit me the strongest, because it referred to Favre's past image, not future results from Favre's then current comments.

[wist43]

I don't think Favre is all about himself... I think he wants to win.

If Favre didn't care about winning, he'd wouldn't say anything... he's primarily coming back to break records, but he's going to do that whether they win or not.

Brett's rancor is born out of TT's mind numbingly slow approach to building the team. It's one thing to build thru the draft, and it's quite another to so completely ignore team needs in the pursuit of the BPA, that the team ultimately is built to strength so slowly that good players are going out the back door and "winning now" never materializes.

[Patler]

I don't think Favre is all about himself... I think he wants to win.

If Favre didn't care about winning, he'd wouldn't say anything... he's primarily coming back to break records, but he's going to do that whether they win or not.

Brett's rancor is born out of TT's mind numbingly slow approach to building the team. It's one thing to build thru the draft, and it's quite another to so completely ignore team needs in the pursuit of the BPA, that the team ultimately is built to strength so slowly that good players are going out the back door and "winning now" never materializes.

I didn't suggest that Favre was all about himself, nor did Sharper's comment imply that. Why go from one extrem to another? Maybe, just maybe there is more self interest in the man than his image has been built up to suggest. His comments the last couple seasons seem to support that.

I think TT has not been "mind numbingly slow" in building the team To the contrary, he has changed the roster with alarming speed. By the start of the 2007 season there will be only a handfull of players left from the end of the 2004 season. That's hardly "mind numbingly slow".

To me, "mind numbingly slow" would have been trying to eek out another season or two from Rivera, Flanagan, Roman, Diggs, Hunt, Carroll, Henderson, maybe even Green, although the jury is still out on Green. To the contrary, TT came in, thought the status quo was getting no where, and pretty much threw the old roster out in two season.

"Mind numbingly slow"? More like overly aggressive rebuilding.

[Rastak]

the latest from PFT.com



PACKERS BLAME BUS FOR FAVRE FIASCO

A league source with knowledge of the Green Bay Packers front office tells us that the powers-that-be are not happy with agent Bus Cook, who by all appearances is attempting to force an irreparable rift between his client, Brett Favre, and the team.

The Packers blame Cook for sharing with Favre details of the failed efforts to work out a trade for receiver Randy Moss, and for leaking the news that Cook requested on Favre's behalf a trade out of town.

As to the first point, how would Favre know about the ins and outs of the Moss trade efforts if someone involved in the process wasn't telling Brett about it? Cook has long been connected to the representation of Randy Moss on a semi-formal basis, since Cook is a West Virginia native and Randy's West Virginia-based agents, Tim DiPiero and the decertified (and incarcerated) Dante DiTrapano, had no experience in the business before being hired by Moss.

Per the source, the Packers sniffed out during trade talks that Moss preferred the Patriots over the Packers, and that the Packers' interest (driven by Favre) was being used as leverage against the Patriots. As we've previously mentioned (at least twice), DiPiero made it clear on the official Randy Moss web site that the Pats were the first choice.

And why wouldn't they be? Moss is trying to rehabilitate his image in an effort to get in position for a huge payday in 2008. No one was going to give him the $21 million he was due to earn in Oakland over the next two years, including the Raiders. With the free-agent market paying out $20 million or more in guaranteed money to so-so veterans and washed-up stars, Moss knows that one big season in which he plays deep into January (and perhaps February) will vault him to the top of the free-agent market at the receiver position next March, putting him in line for one more big contract before he calls it quits.

But, somehow, Favre was fed the idea that Moss was serious about playing for the Packers. The potential culprits? Moss himself, or Cook. Or both.

Our take? Brett got snowed by his agent on this one, and the agent has been running for cover by blaming the team. The Packers have opted (by all appearances) to take the high road, and as a result the attack on them by Favre (as instigated by Cook) has not been, and will not be, rebutted publicly.

Remember those reports that Moss ended up in New England because the Packers would only give up a fifth-round pick for him, and not because Moss refused to re-do his deal in Green Bay? Though we initially suspected that the team was putting out this information in order to defuse the notion that the Pack got mooned by Moss, we now believe, based on all of the available facts and circumstances, that this was an effort by Cook to put out the word that the Packers could have had Moss if they wanted him -- primarily to reinforce to Favre through a seemingly objective source that the Packers weren't doing what they could to improve the team for their veteran quarterback's swan song.

In fact, an industry source tells us that the Raiders would have taken a fifth-round pick from the Packers in lieu of a fourth-rounder from the Patriots, because Oakland did not want to send him to another AFC team. So the deal was stalled by Moss, who chose a $3 million salary with no guaranteed money in New England over a $3 million salary with no guaranteed money in Green Bay.

Moving forward, the question is whether Favre's nose is back in joint, and if so whether Cook will continue to try to get him riled up. One league insider believes that Cook is merely trying to get Brett out of Green Bay because Cook thinks it's time for Brett to bolt.

But Cook's financial interests would suggest otherwise. With Favre due to make $11 million in salary from the Packers this year, we can't imagine another team paying that kind of money for one season of football.

Maybe we're wrong. Maybe there's a team out there that would be happy to make the investment in order to be in the thick of Favre's final assault on the record books. Some Dolphins fans already are becoming infatuated with the notion of Favre breaking Dan Marino's records in the same uniform in which Marino set those marks. And such a move would go a long way toward placating folks in South Florida who are still miffed that the team chose Ted Ginn over Brady Quinn in round one.

There are other intriguing possibilities (Atlanta, Dallas), and the speculation will continue until Favre declares that he intends to stay put with the Packers. With every passing hour of silence from Favre, the notion that he wants to finish up his career elsewhere gets stronger and stronger.

And the likelihood of Brett wearing green and gold come September gets smaller and smaller.

[pbmax]

With Moss? You haven't even established that he wanted to come here AFTER New England made him an offer.

So you are saying we would now have to bid against his preferred destination?

And I don't think Moss puts us in the playoffs. If 9-7 gets us a wild-card we lose in the first round.



Why would someone trust Favre's motives and distrust T2's motives?

Does anyone think its realistic that the Pack are going to "win now" even with Moss?


I felt that the Packers had a good chance of making the playoffs with Moss.

I trust TT's motives.

He's going to do this his way, which happens to be pretty dam slow.
He's not going to take many risks via trades
He's going to cradle those draft picks like they are his firstborn
He's going to play by his rules and sometimes he'll get trumped by another team in his effort.

I'm truly surprised TT was even making a play for Moss; I never expected him to make it happen

[pbmax]

Doesn't every GM want to win "his way"? Isn't "his way" a blueprint like every other team has (except for the Redskins)?

Why do we need to mindread suspicious motives into every decision?

He doesn't sign free agents at a clip you approve of, therefore he is stubborn?

What if your advocacy of Free Agency signings make the team a perennial 9-7 once and done playoff team? Is that better than winning big longer term?


As for motives??? I don't trust TT.

It's not that I don't think that TT wants to win... but, I think winning "his way" is more important to him that is winning itself.

[pbmax]

Get off the draft pick! Even Favre said that wasn't the issue!

It was MONEY!

Moss was holding you, Favre and the Packers up, using you as a stalking horse and you refuse to see. Instead we become incapacitated by self-recriminations?

If Randy really wanted to come here, why weren't the Packers given a chance to match the offer?

Because they wouldn't guarantee the money.


I also agree with wist; I found it hard to understand that TT would be serious about Moss, but he appeared to be. If he got outbid via a draft pick that does not surprise me one bit.

[pbmax]

Favre has also said he doesn't want to come back just to break records on a losing team.

So Brett's not interested in rebuilding because he doesn't want to play while losing.

Is that in the best interest of the team or Favre?


I don't think Favre is all about himself... I think he wants to win.

If Favre didn't care about winning, he'd wouldn't say anything... he's primarily coming back to break records, but he's going to do that whether they win or not.

Brett's rancor is born out of TT's mind numbingly slow approach to building the team. It's one thing to build thru the draft, and it's quite another to so completely ignore team needs in the pursuit of the BPA, that the team ultimately is built to strength so slowly that good players are going out the back door and "winning now" never materializes.

[pbmax]

I won't pretend this isn't material in the self-interest of the Packers, but this comment should get its own thread:


Per the source, the Packers sniffed out during trade talks that Moss preferred the Patriots over the Packers, and that the Packers' interest (driven by Favre) was being used as leverage against the Patriots. As we've previously mentioned (at least twice), DiPiero made it clear on the official Randy Moss web site that the Pats were the first choice.

Packers were being used and so was Favre.

Randy is thanking everyone for his new contract.


the latest from PFT.com



PACKERS BLAME BUS FOR FAVRE FIASCO

A league source with knowledge of the Green Bay Packers front office tells us that the powers-that-be are not happy with agent Bus Cook, who by all appearances is attempting to force an irreparable rift between his client, Brett Favre, and the team....

Per the source, the Packers sniffed out during trade talks that Moss preferred the Patriots over the Packers, and that the Packers' interest (driven by Favre) was being used as leverage against the Patriots. As we've previously mentioned (at least twice), DiPiero made it clear on the official Randy Moss web site that the Pats were the first choice....

And the likelihood of Brett wearing green and gold come September gets smaller and smaller.

[pbmax]

Can we now call a moratorium on the T2 is too in love with his draft picks for the good of the team now?


In fact, an industry source tells us that the Raiders would have taken a fifth-round pick from the Packers in lieu of a fourth-rounder from the Patriots, because Oakland did not want to send him to another AFC team. So the deal was stalled by Moss, who chose a $3 million salary with no guaranteed money in New England over a $3 million salary with no guaranteed money in Green Bay.


the latest from PFT.com



PACKERS BLAME BUS FOR FAVRE FIASCO

A league source with knowledge of the Green Bay Packers front office tells us that the powers-that-be are not happy with agent Bus Cook, who by all appearances is attempting to force an irreparable rift between his client, Brett Favre, and the team....

In fact, an industry source tells us that the Raiders would have taken a fifth-round pick from the Packers in lieu of a fourth-rounder from the Patriots, because Oakland did not want to send him to another AFC team. So the deal was stalled by Moss, who chose a $3 million salary with no guaranteed money in New England over a $3 million salary with no guaranteed money in Green Bay....

[mraynrand]

Did it ever occur to anyone that there may have ben higher ups, such as people on the Packer board who did not want Moss in Green Bay. I would imagine, even with the sort of 'hands off' appearance that word can get to Thompson.

Granted, this is all speculation, but it seems to me TT perhaps made an 'attempt' to sign Moss, to placate Favre somewhat, full well knowing he was going elsewhere.

I don't imagine that I'm the only guy who didn't want Moss in GB, under any circumstances. But it appears there are plenty of people who wanted him in GB, even if it meant rubbing his ass in their faces.

[pbmax]

Everyone better buckle up. Because conventional wisdom will now undergo a seismic shift from "Thompson cares too much about the draft picks" and "he doesn't sign enough Free Agents" to the new complaint:

"He's too cheap to win."

Imagine that, Thompson offered exactly what would have gotten the deal done. He wasn't outbid, he didn't overpay.

But Saint Randy, the guy who recently has been unable to complete a season healthy, wanted the Packers to guarantee the contract.

I never had too much of a problem with Moss professionally, except the charges of quitting on the team. But now I like him quite a bit less.

Its like an ugly girl(or guy) causing a fight between good friends. Is it worth the price?


the latest from PFT.com

PACKERS BLAME BUS FOR FAVRE FIASCO...

...In fact, an industry source tells us that the Raiders would have taken a fifth-round pick from the Packers in lieu of a fourth-rounder from the Patriots, because Oakland did not want to send him to another AFC team...

[MadtownPacker]

I'd like to know what TT told Favre before he said he would play in 07.

Did he make him promises like say he would get moss? Or maybe just that he would make some big moves on offense?

Cuz if he did.... then I dont hold Favre's anger against him. We will never find out but the way this is playing out is telling me that someone got lied to. Who did the lying is the question.

[mraynrand]

I lied.

[Bretsky]

Get off the draft pick! Even Favre said that wasn't the issue!

It was MONEY!

Moss was holding you, Favre and the Packers up, using you as a stalking horse and you refuse to see. Instead we become incapacitated by self-recriminations?

If Randy really wanted to come here, why weren't the Packers given a chance to match the offer?

Because they wouldn't guarantee the money.


I also agree with wist; I found it hard to understand that TT would be serious about Moss, but he appeared to be. If he got outbid via a draft pick that does not surprise me one bit.

If it was truly about money and Favre offered to help the turtle out then I like TT even less.

TT could have made this deal happen a long time before the draft.

[Bretsky]

Get off the draft pick! Even Favre said that wasn't the issue!

It was MONEY!

Moss was holding you, Favre and the Packers up, using you as a stalking horse and you refuse to see. Instead we become incapacitated by self-recriminations?

If Randy really wanted to come here, why weren't the Packers given a chance to match the offer?

Because they wouldn't guarantee the money.


I also agree with wist; I found it hard to understand that TT would be serious about Moss, but he appeared to be. If he got outbid via a draft pick that does not surprise me one bit.


It would be reasonable to figure Al Davis had discussions with the Snapper many many times in trying to get a higher draft pick out of him.

And again, you might be right.

Favre might have offered to use his salary to guarantee the Moss deal, and the Snapper may have declined

[Bretsky]

I won't pretend this isn't material in the self-interest of the Packers, but this comment should get its own thread:


Per the source, the Packers sniffed out during trade talks that Moss preferred the Patriots over the Packers, and that the Packers' interest (driven by Favre) was being used as leverage against the Patriots. As we've previously mentioned (at least twice), DiPiero made it clear on the official Randy Moss web site that the Pats were the first choice.

Packers were being used and so was Favre.

Randy is thanking everyone for his new contract.


the latest from PFT.com



PACKERS BLAME BUS FOR FAVRE FIASCO

A league source with knowledge of the Green Bay Packers front office tells us that the powers-that-be are not happy with agent Bus Cook, who by all appearances is attempting to force an irreparable rift between his client, Brett Favre, and the team....

Per the source, the Packers sniffed out during trade talks that Moss preferred the Patriots over the Packers, and that the Packers' interest (driven by Favre) was being used as leverage against the Patriots. As we've previously mentioned (at least twice), DiPiero made it clear on the official Randy Moss web site that the Pats were the first choice....

And the likelihood of Brett wearing green and gold come September gets smaller and smaller.

Maybe GB was used again.

A bold move would have been to make this deal happen far before the draft instead of playing the waiting game.

[Bretsky]

I'd like to know what TT told Favre before he said he would play in 07.

Did he make him promises like say he would get moss? Or maybe just that he would make some big moves on offense?

Cuz if he did.... then I dont hold Favre's anger against him. We will never find out but the way this is playing out is telling me that someone got lied to. Who did the lying is the question.


Prolly the same political rhetoric he blabs every time he talks with the media

[Bretsky]

Everyone better buckle up. Because conventional wisdom will now undergo a seismic shift from "Thompson cares too much about the draft picks" and "he doesn't sign enough Free Agents" to the new complaint:

"He's too cheap to win."

Imagine that, Thompson offered exactly what would have gotten the deal done. He wasn't outbid, he didn't overpay.

But Saint Randy, the guy who recently has been unable to complete a season healthy, wanted the Packers to guarantee the contract.

I never had too much of a problem with Moss professionally, except the charges of quitting on the team. But now I like him quite a bit less.

Its like an ugly girl(or guy) causing a fight between good friends. Is it worth the price?


the latest from PFT.com

PACKERS BLAME BUS FOR FAVRE FIASCO...

...In fact, an industry source tells us that the Raiders would have taken a fifth-round pick from the Packers in lieu of a fourth-rounder from the Patriots, because Oakland did not want to send him to another AFC team...

WHAT SHIFT ?

Many have been saying TT is a tight penny pincher for years now. Why would Moss have to bring this out ?

[Rastak]

I won't pretend this isn't material in the self-interest of the Packers, but this comment should get its own thread:


Per the source, the Packers sniffed out during trade talks that Moss preferred the Patriots over the Packers, and that the Packers' interest (driven by Favre) was being used as leverage against the Patriots. As we've previously mentioned (at least twice), DiPiero made it clear on the official Randy Moss web site that the Pats were the first choice.

Packers were being used and so was Favre.

Randy is thanking everyone for his new contract.


the latest from PFT.com



PACKERS BLAME BUS FOR FAVRE FIASCO

A league source with knowledge of the Green Bay Packers front office tells us that the powers-that-be are not happy with agent Bus Cook, who by all appearances is attempting to force an irreparable rift between his client, Brett Favre, and the team....

Per the source, the Packers sniffed out during trade talks that Moss preferred the Patriots over the Packers, and that the Packers' interest (driven by Favre) was being used as leverage against the Patriots. As we've previously mentioned (at least twice), DiPiero made it clear on the official Randy Moss web site that the Pats were the first choice....

And the likelihood of Brett wearing green and gold come September gets smaller and smaller.

Maybe GB was used again.

A bold move would have been to make this deal happen far before the draft instead of playing the waiting game.


I agree Bretsky, if you really want something to happen you MAKE it happen. Up the ante, give a deadline. Say you get a third if you say OK right NOW. You can't lay back.

[Bretsky]

I won't pretend this isn't material in the self-interest of the Packers, but this comment should get its own thread:


Per the source, the Packers sniffed out during trade talks that Moss preferred the Patriots over the Packers, and that the Packers' interest (driven by Favre) was being used as leverage against the Patriots. As we've previously mentioned (at least twice), DiPiero made it clear on the official Randy Moss web site that the Pats were the first choice.

Packers were being used and so was Favre.

Randy is thanking everyone for his new contract.


the latest from PFT.com



PACKERS BLAME BUS FOR FAVRE FIASCO

A league source with knowledge of the Green Bay Packers front office tells us that the powers-that-be are not happy with agent Bus Cook, who by all appearances is attempting to force an irreparable rift between his client, Brett Favre, and the team....

Per the source, the Packers sniffed out during trade talks that Moss preferred the Patriots over the Packers, and that the Packers' interest (driven by Favre) was being used as leverage against the Patriots. As we've previously mentioned (at least twice), DiPiero made it clear on the official Randy Moss web site that the Pats were the first choice....

And the likelihood of Brett wearing green and gold come September gets smaller and smaller.

Maybe GB was used again.

A bold move would have been to make this deal happen far before the draft instead of playing the waiting game.


I agree Bretsky, if you really want something to happen you MAKE it happen. Up the ante, give a deadline. Say you get a third if you say OK right NOW. You can't lay back.


F'ck ya

GET ER DONE

Make it happen

But it requires stones :lol:

[Scott Campbell]

F'ck ya

GET ER DONE

Make it happen

But it requires stones :lol:


Nobody remembers Dan Devine's set of "stones" for trading for John Hadl. That was a bold move. He sure GOT ER DONE.

[Bretsky]

F'ck ya

GET ER DONE

Make it happen

But it requires stones :lol:


Nobody remembers Dan Devine's set of "stones" for trading for John Hadl. That was a bold move. He sure GOT ER DONE.


So did Ron Wolf

Brett Favre
Keith Jackson
Reggie White
Santana Dotson
Eugene Robinson

That took stones.

[Scott Campbell]

F'ck ya

GET ER DONE

Make it happen

But it requires stones :lol:


Nobody remembers Dan Devine's set of "stones" for trading for John Hadl. That was a bold move. He sure GOT ER DONE.


So did Ron Wolf

Brett Favre
Keith Jackson
Reggie White
Santana Dotson
Eugene Robinson

That took stones.

It takes stones to walk away from bad deals when the fan pressure is intense to get somebody - anybody.

It takes smarts to cut good deals - not balls.

[Bretsky]

F'ck ya

GET ER DONE

Make it happen

But it requires stones :lol:


Nobody remembers Dan Devine's set of "stones" for trading for John Hadl. That was a bold move. He sure GOT ER DONE.


So did Ron Wolf

Brett Favre
Keith Jackson
Reggie White
Santana Dotson
Eugene Robinson

That took stones.

It takes stones to walk away from bad deals when the fan pressure is intense to get somebody - anybody.

It takes smarts to cut good deals - not balls.


Well, it does take stones to give up draft picks as GM's value youth more then not, especially with today's rules. GM's value these draft picks higher than ever with today's cap rules.

But I'm fine with stones and smarts.

Wolf had both; time will tell if TT does.

[Patler]

F'ck ya

GET ER DONE

Make it happen

But it requires stones :lol:


Nobody remembers Dan Devine's set of "stones" for trading for John Hadl. That was a bold move. He sure GOT ER DONE.


So did Ron Wolf

Brett Favre
Keith Jackson
Reggie White
Santana Dotson
Eugene Robinson

That took stones.

Of course free agency is a tool. But there are two sides to it, retaining your own and signing others..

Many of you continually list the FAs Wolf signed, but you ignore the ones he lost. He let Por-Bowlers get away by not re-signing them. He let a future Defensive Player of the Year get away. He let players get away that many thought deserved to be pro-bowlers. The list of players lost includes:

Chuck Cecil
Bryce Paup
Aaron Taylor
Adam Timmerman
Desmond Howard
Craig Hentrich
Tony Bennett
Eugene Robinson
Doug Evans
Travis Jervey

All of the above, except Robinson, were younger players just coming into their prime.

He also lost capable starters like Verba, Robbins and others.

Other than Wahle, the ones that TT has let get away are older players with their best days behind them, and players who don't matter much. Walker was traded for compensation.

Maybe if Wolf had been better at retaining his own players, Favre's years in the late 1990s and ealy 2000s would not have been "wasted" on teams that were not good enough to get back to the Super Bowl.

In evaluating any GM in free agency, we should look not only at who they sign, but also who they lose.

[GrnBay007]

I'd like to know what TT told Favre before he said he would play in 07.

Did he make him promises like say he would get moss? Or maybe just that he would make some big moves on offense?

Cuz if he did.... then I dont hold Favre's anger against him. We will never find out but the way this is playing out is telling me that someone got lied to. Who did the lying is the question.

I agree. This is something we will never know...but something prompted that outburst by Favre...that's not his style. I think I'm in the very minority group here not upset with Favre saying what he did. Maybe it had to be said and once the dust settles it will all be worth it.

[PackerBlues]

I'd like to know what TT told Favre before he said he would play in 07.

Did he make him promises like say he would get moss? Or maybe just that he would make some big moves on offense?

Cuz if he did.... then I dont hold Favre's anger against him. We will never find out but the way this is playing out is telling me that someone got lied to. Who did the lying is the question.

I agree. This is something we will never know...but something prompted that outburst by Favre...that's not his style. I think I'm in the very minority group here not upset with Favre saying what he did. Maybe it had to be said and once the dust settles it will all be worth it.

Sometimes a slap in the face is the best way to get your point across to someone.

[RashanGary]

Sometimes a slap in the face is the best way to get your point across to someone.

Well, at least he had the decency to appologize for his irrational outburst.

[MadtownPacker]

I lied.Well of course you did. You're a Bush supporter. :wink:

[MadtownPacker]

Sometimes a slap in the face is the best way to get your point across to someone.

Well, at least he had the decency to appologize for his irrational outburst.Sounds like something fun to try to do huh?

[retailguy]

Sometimes a slap in the face is the best way to get your point across to someone.

Well, at least he had the decency to appologize for his irrational outburst.Sounds like something fun to try to do huh?

He'd rather die, or create a new screen name! :twisted:

[MadtownPacker]

Sometimes a slap in the face is the best way to get your point across to someone.

Well, at least he had the decency to appologize for his irrational outburst.Sounds like something fun to try to do huh?

He'd rather die, or create a new screen name! :twisted:
Nah, NickCollins/GregJennings/JustinHarrell is a good guy and I always have enjoyed his post. He is just young and crazy sometimes but we all have been guilty of that at some time.

Of course not you, youre just a bitter ahole. :lol:

[retailguy]

Sometimes a slap in the face is the best way to get your point across to someone.

Well, at least he had the decency to appologize for his irrational outburst.Sounds like something fun to try to do huh?

He'd rather die, or create a new screen name! :twisted:
Nah, NickCollins/GregJennings/JustinHarrell is a good guy and I always have enjoyed his post. He is just young and crazy sometimes but we all have been guilty of that at some time.

Of course not you, youre just a bitter ahole. :lol:

You have figured me out. damn.

[RashanGary]

Sometimes a slap in the face is the best way to get your point across to someone.

Well, at least he had the decency to appologize for his irrational outburst.Sounds like something fun to try to do huh?

Shit :)

[4and12to12and4]

Wow. I just read this whole thread. Some really funny shit!! What a couple of days, huh? I'm glad this whole thing happened, because at least Favre is showing everyone on this team that he wants, to win, is working his ass off to be in "the best shape of his life" and will settle for nothing less. I think this WILL help us win, because everyone of his teammates is reading this newsstory also. I think it helps set a standard and gets the rest of the team thinking, hmm, am I that committed to winning, or just happy with this great offseason, and gigantic house I'm living in right now. So, I think this is good for the team, going into minicamps, all of our players know that the guy under center, leading their team, is a winner, and will accept nothing less. He also bolstered the confidence and loyalty to his defense by saying that it was them that kept the pack in the games last year, and why we ended up 8-8. That may not have been pre-meditated, but it's effect will go far with him and his relationship with the guys on that side of the ball, and helps the young guys on "d" go into this year confident that their leader believes in them as a unit.

So, after the original negative shock of all this, I think the end result will be good.

[Guiness]

F'ck ya

GET ER DONE

Make it happen

But it requires stones :lol:


Nobody remembers Dan Devine's set of "stones" for trading for John Hadl. That was a bold move. He sure GOT ER DONE.


So did Ron Wolf

Brett Favre
Keith Jackson
Reggie White
Santana Dotson
Eugene Robinson

That took stones.

Wow - just wandered in after a few days offline to see this! :shock:

You have to think Brett was pretty upset, and there has to be something to it. Looks like there's a possibility Bus Cooke was leading him around by the nose too.

Here's my take on it: I don't blame TT for the way he's handled things. He's put us in a good cap position, one that allowed the Pack to at least be in the position to make a play for Randy.I'm not delusional enough to think RM would've gotten us to a Super Bowl, but there's no way he doesn't help. And he could be the difference in a couple of games.

If TT was seriously looking at RM, I think he should've done it. Injury concerns? Woodson had those, and he got a lot more guaranteed money than Moss did. Sure, there's a possibility Moss looked so bad he isn't even a starter. So what? A one year contract, no long term damage done. The chance should've been taken.

[BallHawk]

"the best shape of his life" and will settle for nothing less.

So far, Brett has been in the best shape of his life every 4 seasons or so. Must've found the fountain of youth of something. :roll: