Since when has Brett been so committed to us??

[b bulldog]

Year after year, we go through this crap about Brett wanting to retire or play and how he just soaks up all the media attention and how we all get so sick of it. He never gives any committment in terms of more than one year to the Packers but some think the team should build around a player whio is OLD AND DOESN'T EVEN STATE IF HE WILL BE A PACKER THE FOLLOWING SEASON. One question, was Moss the missing piece to ourt championship puzzle?? I think not. TT and Brett are the biggest losers in this and many will have even more reasons to dislike both after this.

[b bulldog]

Everyone that bitched about Walker better start going that way towards Brett. Brett drove Walker out of GB AND tt had a hand in that also. Management should have stepped into that mess and cleaned it up.

[esoxx]

Everyone that bitched about Walker better start going that way towards Brett.

Is this that lynch mob you were talking about in another thread Scott?

[Scott Campbell]

Everyone that bitched about Walker better start going that way towards Brett.

Is this that lynch mob you were talking about in another thread Scott?


LOL No, though I can understand how you see similarities.

I don't want to see Brett hung, or traded or retired. I just want him to stop whining to the news media, and quit pandering to the Anti-Ted Turtle Shell/Polar Bear Society.

[Bretsky]

Everyone that bitched about Walker better start going that way towards Brett.

Is this that lynch mob you were talking about in another thread Scott?

yup

[gbpackfan]

Walker pubically demanded to be traded. Show me where Brett pubically demand to be traded? Right now, you have a bunch of "sources" claiming they have knowledge of the situation. Until I hear it from the horses mouth, I won't believe it. It could be true, but in today's NFL, there is way too much mis-information out there.

If this happened, and it may have, then Favre told his agent to talk to the Packers. He didnt make a public demand on ESPN or in a newspaper. Am I happy about it? HELL NO. Do I blame him. Not really. TT has done a piss poor job this offseason and our O desperately needed some veteran help. TT sucks!

Brett has every right to speak up about how piss poor the O is going to be. MM won't do it and TT won't fix it. So let's just all close our eyes and pretend their isnt a problem! There, that is a great fucking solution!

[packers11]

Walker pubically demanded to be traded. Show me where Brett pubically demand to be traded? Right now, you have a bunch of "sources" claiming they have knowledge of the situation. Until I hear it from the horses mouth, I won't believe it. It could be true, but in today's NFL, there is way too much mis-information out there.

If this happened, and it may have, then Favre told his agent to talk to the Packers. He didnt make a public demand on ESPN or in a newspaper. Am I happy about it? HELL NO. Do I blame him. Not really. TT has done a piss poor job this offseason and our O desperately needed some veteran help. TT sucks!

Brett has every right to speak up about how piss poor the O is going to be. MM won't do it and TT won't fix it. So let's just all close our eyes and pretend their isnt a problem! There, that is a great fucking solution!

Im with you 110%...

[gbpackfan]

I apologize about the profanity this morning. I am just so pissed. I'll try and control myself in the future.

[PackerBlues]

I wouldnt sweat it to much gbpackfan, you are speaking from your heart. Whereas all these guys that are bashing Favre are talking out of their asses.

[falco]

I wouldnt sweat it to much gbpackfan, you are speaking from your heart. Whereas all these guys that are bashing Favre are talking out of their asses.

PackerBlues, you so desperately want to win now, yet you'd be willing to keep William Henderson on the team another year when he can't contribute, just out of nostalgia? You're talking out of both sides of your mouth.

[Scott Campbell]

Whereas all these guys that are bashing Favre are talking out of their asses.


Ironic how you whine about personal attacks.

[pbmax]

You are so right Blues. To disagree with Favre is to rip him. I forgot how sensitive he (or you) can be.

[PackerBlues]

Year after year, we go through this crap about Brett wanting to retire or play and how he just soaks up all the media attention and how we all get so sick of it. He never gives any committment in terms of more than one year to the Packers but some think the team should build around a player whio is OLD AND DOESN'T EVEN STATE IF HE WILL BE A PACKER THE FOLLOWING SEASON. One question, was Moss the missing piece to ourt championship puzzle?? I think not. TT and Brett are the biggest losers in this and many will have even more reasons to dislike both after this.


Some very nice "trolling" b bulldog.

[pbmax]

bulldog is a long standing member of the board who has taken on his share of arguments and done well packerblues. I'd be careful about throwing around a trolling charge.



Year after year, we go through this crap about Brett wanting to retire or play and how he just soaks up all the media attention and how we all get so sick of it. He never gives any committment in terms of more than one year to the Packers but some think the team should build around a player whio is OLD AND DOESN'T EVEN STATE IF HE WILL BE A PACKER THE FOLLOWING SEASON. One question, was Moss the missing piece to ourt championship puzzle?? I think not. TT and Brett are the biggest losers in this and many will have even more reasons to dislike both after this.


Some very nice "trolling" b bulldog.

[PackerBlues]

Whereas all these guys that are bashing Favre are talking out of their asses.


Ironic how you whine about personal attacks.


Ironic? Considering some of the shit you post, you should not be all that suprised. It really does not take long for a person to get disgusted with the crap being spewed by people that protest so damned much about what a genius Ted Thompson is. What has Thompson done to warrant so much devotion that you would start talking about Favre the way that you do?

In all honesty, I hope Favre does retire. He certainly does not deserve the disrespect that Thompson has shown him, and idiots like you can finally get what you want. Year after year of "building for the future" with no end in sight.

[gbpackfan]

Guys! EASY. We are taking out our anger on each other. The enemy here is TT. Save your personal attacks for him. No need to hate on fellow Packer fans.

[PackerBlues]

bulldog is a long standing member of the board who has taken on his share of arguments and done well packerblues. I'd be careful about throwing around a trolling charge.


Oh my........are you going to gang up on me? A long standing member of what, The "lets all hang on TT's nuts" club? Get Bent.

[pbmax]

The retirement talk / I don't want to rebuild talk / I want to win now talk has been going on since at least the 2002 training camp. Peter King had a story on how hard it was to leave the tractor for training camp and how it might be his last year.

And I believe in mid-season 2001, possibly the end of the season, he gave Michael Silver quotes for SI about retirement as well.

He's been dangling this warning for five or six years now. And people keep jumping at the bait.

He isn't the GM. He isn't qualified to be the GM. Sherman couldn't handle both, and the QB might not be as smart as Sherman.

[bbbffl66]

The retirement talk / I don't want to rebuild talk / I want to win now talk has been going on since at least the 2002 training camp. Peter King had a story on how hard it was to leave the tractor for training camp and how it might be his last year.

And I believe in mid-season 2001, possibly the end of the season, he gave Michael Silver quotes for SI about retirement as well.

He's been dangling this warning for five or six years now. And people keep jumping at the bait.

He isn't the GM. He isn't qualified to be the GM. Sherman couldn't handle both, and the QB might not be as smart as Sherman.

Based on what we've seen up until now, I'd say TT isn't anymore qualified than Brett to be a GM.

[PackerBlues]

The retirement talk / I don't want to rebuild talk / I want to win now talk has been going on since at least the 2002 training camp. Peter King had a story on how hard it was to leave the tractor for training camp and how it might be his last year.

And I believe in mid-season 2001, possibly the end of the season, he gave Michael Silver quotes for SI about retirement as well.

He's been dangling this warning for five or six years now. And people keep jumping at the bait.

He isn't the GM. He isn't qualified to be the GM. Sherman couldn't handle both, and the QB might not be as smart as Sherman.

Based on what we've seen up until now, I'd say TT isn't anymore qualified than Brett to be a GM.

probably less qualified

[b bulldog]

Intelligent comment

[PackerBlues]

Since when has Brett been so committed to us?? <--------and I suppose that is what you would refer to as intelligent? Keep trollin buddy.

[b bulldog]

I hate to say this but all you have is names, you have no knowledge, keep up the good work,"buddy". :lol:

[VegasPackFan]

I have to second what bulldog is saying.

And I will add this:

We have been unable to attract good offensive FA's BECAUSE of Favre.

Would you sign with a team when the QB has to decide year to year whether he is coming back or not? There are lots of players that would have loved to play with Favre, but why would they make a 3 or 4 year commitment when Favre wouldnt himself?

So now, people want the GM fired - and he is the guy that is working long term plans. Imagine they fire TT, sign some big FA's for a few years and then Favre decides this is his last year. Now Brett is gone and we have all these knee-jerk changes to please one player that has retired?

I dont think that would be very wise.....

[GBRulz]

If starting every game since fall of 1992 isn't committment enough for you, you have issues.

[b bulldog]

Sorry but we aRE TALKING ABOUT THE PRESENT AND FUTURE, NOT THE PAST. I get sick of him wanting the attention and getting it in regards to his future.

[pbmax]

Does starting that many games mean he gets promoted to GM?

Committment is more than just attendance. Even if that attendance has come at a fantastic physical price. Which it undoubtably has.

The job is QB not QB/GM. The reward for continued excellence can't be hiring the people you want.

Should we have hired Mariucci? Mohringweg?


If starting every game since fall of 1992 isn't committment enough for you, you have issues.

[b bulldog]

lET'S all be honest, Brett deserves respect and he gets plenty of it. He threw the good will under the proverbial bus with his stupid comments. What are the youngsters now to think when their leader is basicly saying he has nothing on offense, that quickly squashes any good feelings the O might have developed after the 4 game winning streak at years end. The whole organization is partly to blame for this because many of them treat brett with kid gloves. Great leadership Brett!

[digitaldean]

lET'S all be honest, Brett deserves respect and he gets plenty of it. He threw the good will under the proverbial bus with his stupid comments. What are the youngsters now to think when their leader is basicly saying he has nothing on offense, that quickly squashes any good feelings the O might have developed after the 4 game winning streak at years end. The whole organization is partly to blame for this because many of them treat brett with kid gloves. Great leadership Brett!

Though I may not agree with most of Bulldog's opinions on #4, I think this one is spot on.

Venting through the media at a golf tournament looks and is bush league behavior.

It would have been better for him and the team to state a FINITE time table on his stay in Green Bay.

I personally do not care for this draft class, but as I have stated in other threads, we will have to wait and see. I would have preferred a Dwayne Bowe over Harrell. There are just too many red flags with his injuries. We could have gotten Brian Leonard from Rutgers, but we traded down hoping he'd still be there.

It may end up costing them both their jobs, but I do admire McCarthy and TT in one respect. They are saying they are in charge of this team. One player, no matter if they are casting his bust for Canton or not, is not going to influence their decisions.

[esoxx]

Does starting that many games mean he gets promoted to GM?

Committment is more than just attendance. Even if that attendance has come at a fantastic physical price. Which it undoubtably has.

The job is QB not QB/GM. The reward for continued excellence can't be hiring the people you want.



If starting every game since fall of 1992 isn't committment enough for you, you have issues.


Maybe you should tell that to VegasPackFan, who wrote:

"We have been unable to attract good offensive FA's BECAUSE of Favre."

Good grief, now it's Favre's fault b/c he allegedly can't attract offensive FA's??

Freakin' hilarious.

Some of you people want it both ways. Favre should have no opinion on who plays with him (which I agree, that's the GM's job) but attracting FA's, or lack thereof, is his fault.

:roll: :roll: :roll:

[RashanGary]

lET'S all be honest, Brett deserves respect and he gets plenty of it. He threw the good will under the proverbial bus with his stupid comments. What are the youngsters now to think when their leader is basicly saying he has nothing on offense, that quickly squashes any good feelings the O might have developed after the 4 game winning streak at years end. The whole organization is partly to blame for this because many of them treat brett with kid gloves. Great leadership Brett!

Nice post.

[Packnut]

Certain people oughta be locked in a room and forced to watch 24 hrs straight of Scott Hunter, Scott Campbell, Randy White, and Jerry T just to name a few. Then again the minority opinion is usually off the wall which is why it's the MINORITY opinion. The great number of Packer fans appreciate and respect Favre and only a complete idiot would dispute that.

Most people who express minority opinions usually do so just to get a reaction...........

[RashanGary]

Certain people oughta be locked in a room and forced to watch 24 hrs straight of Scott Hunter, Scott Campbell, Randy White, and Jerry T just to name a few. Then again the minority opinion is usually off the wall which is why it's the MINORITY opinion. The great number of Packer fans appreciate and respect Favre and only a complete idiot would dispute that.

Most people who express minority opinions usually do so just to get a reaction...........

People have differing opinions all the time and despite you're common insultes, people here have remained civil and reasonable toward you. You can make a point without calling someone an idiot. Acctually, people would probably take your point a lot mroe seriously because name calling really does turn poeple off.

[prsnfoto]

lET'S all be honest, Brett deserves respect and he gets plenty of it. He threw the good will under the proverbial bus with his stupid comments. What are the youngsters now to think when their leader is basicly saying he has nothing on offense, that quickly squashes any good feelings the O might have developed after the 4 game winning streak at years end. The whole organization is partly to blame for this because many of them treat brett with kid gloves. Great leadership Brett!

Nice post.


Ya it is a nice post that is 1/2 right Brett very well has pushed TT into a corner, that fuckface got himself backed into himself by really not telling Brett he wanted to move into a different direction. He signed no recievers or lineman worth a shit in 2005, my two year old could have played pin the player on the donkey blindfolded and came up with something better. Brett holds all the cards here if TT reprimanded him he will be crucified and if he trades or cuts him he will be killed. No matter what bulldog might want to believe.

[RashanGary]

What are you talkign about? bulldog said Favre threw his team and GM under the bus. He said the guys he has arn't very good and they did nothing to help the offense. That kind of shit doesn't exactly build confidence in a group of young guys. He added that they use little kid gloves on Favre and they do. He's a star and he brings in money. That said, it's too bad diva athletes get away wtih this but it's part of the game.

The great leaders keep their mouths shut though.

[RashanGary]

Alright guys, I'm out of here. It's been a crazy last couple of hours. Hopefully this crap clears up and we have a great season...

See Ya'll tomorrow.

[VegasPackFan]

esoxx,

I explained that I think it was Favre's waffling on playing each year that probably contributed to the Pack not getting good FA's on offense.

I wouldnt sign as a FA when the key guy (Brett) wasnt possibly coming back the next year - and that has been the situation for the last 5 years.

I didnt imply that he was responsible for the gM's job in any way.

[BallHawk]

The great number of Packer fans appreciate and respect Favre and only a complete idiot would dispute that.

Y'know, it's possible to respect him yet criticize him at the same time. The double-standard with Favre has gone too far. If any other player, besides Favre, speaks out about his GMs decisions, he would be thrown under the bus by the fans. However, since he is Favre, if we criticize him for creating a media circus than we are "complete idiots." Sure, he's a Packer all time great, but you've gotta draw the line somewhere.

[Patler]

Certain people oughta be locked in a room and forced to watch 24 hrs straight of Scott Hunter, Scott Campbell, Randy White, and Jerry T just to name a few. Then again the minority opinion is usually off the wall which is why it's the MINORITY opinion. The great number of Packer fans appreciate and respect Favre and only a complete idiot would dispute that.

Most people who express minority opinions usually do so just to get a reaction...........

Or... they could watch Bart Starr, Lynn Dickey and Don Majkowski. In the 47 seasons from 1960 through 2006, between Starr, Dickey, Majkowski and Favre the Packers have had nearly 40 years with a pretty decent #1 QB.

Believe it or not, at some point in the future, the Packers will have another competent QB other than Brett Favre. I have no idea if it will be Aaron Rodgers, or Ingle Martin, or someone not yet on the Packers, or someone not yet born. Maybe it will be a free agent or someone traded for. But there will be someone

[Patler]

The great number of Packer fans appreciate and respect Favre and only a complete idiot would dispute that.

Y'know, it's possible to respect him yet criticize him at the same time. The double-standard with Favre has gone too far. If any other player, besides Favre, speaks out about his GMs decisions, he would be thrown under the bus by the fans. However, since he is Favre, if we criticize him for creating a media circus than we are "complete idiots." Sure, he's a Packer all time great, but you've gotta draw the line somewhere.

Kind of like loving your kids while disciplining them for having disobeyed!

[Patler]

I always find it disappointing when super stars wind down their careers by whinning about the organization that has idolized and rewarded them for their long careers.

How many playoff chances did Green Bay give Favre? How many winning seasons? It's not like he played most of his career without legitimate playoff opportunities. He played in two Super Bowls, and had reasonably good chances to get to others. He even had the chance to be "the guy" on decent, but not great or favored teams which he could have carried through the playoffs with HOF performances. Several times he was not up to the task.

It's not like he hasn't had his chances. many players would be thrilled with half the chances Favre has had. Just because the last two seasons have been down years, I don't feel sorry one bit for Favre. He has had many, many chances. Yes, the team has had to rebuild. They had an amazing run. Just because it happens to coincide with the end of Favre's career doesn't make it an injustice to him.

[Fritz]

Well said, Patler. I would add this: Favre is an emotional guy, and like so many qualities it's a double-edged sword. It makes him great and fun to watch, but it also can be detrimental to the team and to himself.

Favre is looking out for his own interests - he wants to win, and feels he doesn't have much time left. So, for him, Randy Moss was a no-brainer. That's an understandable point of view.

From the organizational point of view, however, it's not necessarily a slam dunk. It's clear that the Pack would have had to have topped NE's offer, which may have meant a third round pick or a fourth and sixth or fourth and fifth. At that cost, you have a guy coming in who may or may not be the guy he used to be, playing with a QB that may or may not play more than just this season. You have the salary cap room, yes, but should Favre retire after the season you are left with an historically impatient quarerback-eater who will cost a fair amount of money while potentially polluting the lockerroom.

The argument in favor of Moss would have been much stronger had that addition give the Packers a strong shot at getting to the NFC championship game this year. Obviously, the management felt that Moss was not the single missing piece. In short, the risk (Moss's baggage, uncertainty over Favre's future, salary, giving up draft pick of picks, question of how much Moss has left) outweighs the potential for the reward (NFC championsip game).

All this panning of TT also sometimes leans on revisionist history, and that's just flat out wrong to do. TT could not have re-signed Wahle and Rivera and Sharper. Everybody and his brother knew and said that Sherman's contract with Wahle was designed to be terminated because the contract jumped so much that everyone knew it was one of those make-the-agent-look good things where both sides know that at a certain point the contract would be untenable for the team and could not be honored. I don't mind criticism of TT - there are some things he's screwed up, the Walker situation for example, in my mind - but it ought to be based on something other than revisionist history.

I'd close by seconding Patler's sentiments about Favre. Ernie Banks famously never got to play in a World Series. Here in Detroit, Al Kaline got to play in one World Series at the end of his career. Dan Marino got into one Super Bowl early and never made it back. For the vast majority of Favre's career, he's played on winning teams (thanks in part to his own skills) and been to two Super Bowls. He's very fortunate - many excellent players do not get the opportunities that he has had. I respect that he's frustrated, but I don't think the Packers "owed" him Randy Moss if the team did not think getting Moss was a good move for the organization.

My guess is that Favre, as he has done before, will backtrack a bit on this issue.

How well the Packers do this year remains to be seen.

[gureski]

Certain people oughta be locked in a room and forced to watch 24 hrs straight of Scott Hunter, Scott Campbell, Randy White, and Jerry T just to name a few. Then again the minority opinion is usually off the wall which is why it's the MINORITY opinion. The great number of Packer fans appreciate and respect Favre and only a complete idiot would dispute that.

Most people who express minority opinions usually do so just to get a reaction...........

People have differing opinions all the time and despite you're common insultes, people here have remained civil and reasonable toward you. You can make a point without calling someone an idiot. Acctually, people would probably take your point a lot mroe seriously because name calling really does turn poeple off.

Shut up and grow some thicker skin. If a little name calling hurts your feeilngs then you may want to go to the kiddie thread. Give me a break. This was the biggest overstatement about someone going personal that I've ever heard. The guy used the word 'idiot' and now he's Imus-P.R. style?

With that said, I can't believe the crap I'm reading in this thread on a subject in which NOBODY even knows what Favre really said about being traded! Anonymous sources? That's all the story about Favre asking for a trade was based on.

I always find it amusing when so many of you line up and open your mouth before you know what has even happened.

Here is what we know:

Favre criticized the Packers for not signing Randy Moss. He inferred that the offense needs help and that management isn't providing that help despite having the cap room to do so.

Anonymous sources said Favre demanded a trade.

That's it. That's all we know.

Shouldn't what was really said, and the context it was said in, matter?

Hypothetically, what if Favre and Thompson were in a heated argument in which Thompson was acting like an A-hole? What if, in that same argument, Thompson insulted Favre and Favre turned around and told him to trade him?

Would that be viewed differently than Favre just calling up, out of the blue, and demanding a trade?

I'm merely asking whether the actual facts and the context of what was said matters to some of you? To me, it does. To some of you, I don't think it matters. You just want to attack, attack, attack.... And I've seen this not only with Favre. There is a camp that hates Favre and wants to attack him. There is a camp that hates THompson and wants to attack him. There is a camp that hates Sherman and likes to attack him. It's crazy sometimes to see it happen but some of you just want to attack despite the facts.

If criticizing the GM is wrong than every single one of you guys out there that have griped about the Packers off-season and draft need to condemn yourself too. Are you going to tell me that Favre can't rip the GM but you can? What the GM does actually has a real life affect on Favre and his life.

There are two things that I thought of when this happened. Make it three...

1. God, I hope this isn't true.

2. The people who ripped Favre for speaking on Walker (I was not one of those guys) can now legitimately take a shot at Favre and say that had Favre kept his mouth shut that he'd have the big play WR that he so badly desires in J.Walker. It's a valid point for those that ripped Favre about ripping Walker. The Packers wouldn't have needed Moss if they hadn't been forced into an ugly situation that led to trading Walker and Favre helped push Walker out of G.B..

3. Favre isn't saying anything that many fans haven't also been saying about Thompson.

Those were my thoughts. I sat and listened to guys on the radio say how Favre has earned everything and should be given anything he wants. I listened to guys talking about how dumb Thompson is and how he dropped the ball and should be fired. I listened to people rip Favre and say how disgusted they are with him. I listened to fans list player after player that they wished we would've signed and I just shook my head. It's all so stupid. The comments are so stupid. All of them, on both sides of the issue.

First, nobody knows what was really said. Why haven't we learned that anonymous sources aren't reliable? How many times in the past have anonymous sources proven to be garbage in the end?

But that doesn't stop some people from taking the comments from anonymous sources and running with it. Bulldog was rather passionate in his comments but if you look at everything he said, it will become very clear, very fast that he has an agenda. Bulldog doesn't like Favre right now. He talks about how Favre loves the attention he gets when the retirement topic comes up every year. How does Bulldog know that Favre enjoys that? Doesn't the fact that Bulldog is taking such an overly biased stance on Favre that he dramatically jumps to the point of ripping his leadership abilities and questioning what Favre's comments do to little kids.....doesn't that call into question the legitimacy of Bulldog's comments? We don't even fully know what Favre said yet Bulldog is sure it will hurt little kids. That's just crazy! Bulldog doesn't even respect the context of Favre's comments that we do know Favre made! I see a guy, in Bulldog, who is pissed at #4 and is letting it all out because he thinks he has an issue. It doesn't matter if the issue is real, he just wants to get his shots in and lead as many others to his view as possible. He doesn't need evidence. This backs up what he's thought for a while. That's all the evidence he needs. I can understand him going off the way he is but what's the excuse of many of the rest of you?

On to Ted Thompson...

According to Favre, the only thing standing in the way of the Packers getting Moss was Thompson guaranteeing $3 million in the first year. Favre says he called and offerred to have the $3 million taken out of his contract. IF that's true, than Thompson deserves some heat right now and this is probably the real root of this issue with Favre. Just thinking about this and the best information we have right now.... Favre says he offerred to take the $3 million out of his own deal to pay for Moss. Favre says the deal fell through because Thompson refused to guarantee the $3 million. IF Thompson was willing to deal a pick for Moss and the only thing standing in the way was $$$ AND IF Favre was willing to pay the money himself, out of his own deal, than what excuse does Thompson have for not making the deal? It would appear as if Thompson really did something questionable that goes against making the team better. What risk was present in finishing the deal for Moss IF Favre was fronting the cash? IF Thompson had an offer on the table for Moss than that means that he was prepared to have him on the team so it's no longer an issue of whether Moss would kill the locker room or other questions like that.....IF it all came down to money and Favre was willing to underwrite the deal......why would Thompson shoot that down?

For me, that's the million dollar question. That's what I want to know more about. I want to know if Thompson screwed Favre (and all the fans) over. I want to know if Favre was out there recruiting Moss, with the blessing of management, and being told that the team wanted to do the deal only to watch Thompson literally refuse to do the deal when he had the chance. IF that happened, I want to know why and Packer fans deserve to know why. We spend our money on this team. We faithfully follow this team. IF Thompson had a deal in place for Moss in which Favre was willing to take money out of his contract to get the deal done.....than Thompson owes us an explanation. We need to known if there is truth to the, 'Thompson wants Favre gone' conspiracy theory. It's always been hanging there and now, if this happened the way Favre says it did, than this is a potential bit of evidence that Thompson is actually trying to force an end to the Favre era. I know it's ridiculous but you have to go where the facts take you. WHY would Thompson not pull the trigger on the deal if there was no risk? When you offer a draft pick for a player, you've already decided you want the player on your team. The only thing in the way of the deal being closed was money and Favre, according to his own comments, offerred to be the source of that money. What excuse does Thompson have for not doing the deal and giving the team another legitimate weapon? It doesn't make sense.

On Favre....

IF he was screwed over by Thompson and lied to or if Favre knows something we don't about the way Thompson is going about doing business than I can't fault Favre for criticizing Thompson. People are lining up to rip Favre yet lost in the emotion is the fact that Favre was willing to put his own money on the line in order to make the team better! Packer fans have had the luxary of watching Favre over the past 15 years so we known what he's all about. His personality and moral structure is one of the chief reasons people love Favre. Why would he suddenly turn into a turd? It doesn't make sense. Something is up. Favre saying something is a sign that something larger is going on here. He's NOT a 'me' player. Even in this situation, Favre offerred to give Thompson the money to make the Moss deal work. Isn't that one of the ultimate sacrifices a player can make? Isn't that the ultimate team player? By offerring money to Thompson so that Thompson can improve the team AND by physically picking up the phone and recruiting a player to come to G.B.....isn't that the ultimate help a guy can give the GM?

Something doesn't jive right now and the only thing I know for sure is that I trust Favre. I've watched Favre for well over a decade. From the little bit I've seen from Ted Thompson, he makes me feel like I can't trust him. I know Thompson knows talent. I know Thompson can draft and I know he is doing a great job with the salary cap. I don't know if Thompson is doing everything he can to make this team the best it can be right now. I don't know if the cap room Thompson is creating is being used properly. I think everything he is doing is geared towards the future, at the cost of the past 2 seasons and maybe this season. Creating cap room is only good if you use it to improve the team. I've been patient and a defender of Thompson, still now believing there wasnt' much in free agency this year for Thompson to go after and I did NOT want to see him overpay for some of the leftovers that were out there but if Thompson had a deal in place for Moss and Favre's money to help ease the financial ramifications then Thompson has no excuse. He will have purposely screwed Favre and the team and if I'm Favre.....and IF I believe that my boss lied to me and isn't trying to make the team better......then I'd speak up too. If you thought your boss had lied to you and if you thought, in the world of professional sports, that your boss wasn't trying to make the team better than you'd speak up too. Instead of ripping Favre for comments he may or may not have said I think all of us should be begging reporters to get more information on what really happened so we can find out if our GM is really trying to win.

This is a controversy but not the one people are caught up in. The controversy isn't Favre or even whether he asked for a trade. It's THompson. What is he doing and why is he doing it? What's going on behind the scenes with Thompson? Is he purposely driving Favre away? Did Thompson lie? What were Thompson's motives, if he did? What are the ramifications if Thompson is running the show in a less than ethical manner? Will players steer away from G.B. because of Thompson? Is Thompson really trying to improve this team and give players like Favre the tools to win? This is the controversy. It's not Favre. Get your heads out of your ass long enough to realize that Favre has, and still is, the ultimate team player! In this story he offerred his own money to get the deal done to help the team! He's always been like that. It's why the entire NFL loves the guy and wants to play with him. If something is up between Thompson and Favre then I'd be more prone to question Thompson than I would to question Favre. 15 years of watching the guy buys him some benefit of the doubt, in my mind. I'm not relieving Favre of any criticism, (I said the Walker people have a right to Rip Favre hard right now) but I am willing to give this some time before I start taking hard stances about how Favre is wrong and is hurting little kids. We don't know yet who is right or wrong.

The bottom line is that we need more information and I really hope the right questions are asked. This isn't about Favre being traded. This is about Thompson and what happened. We need to know what happened.

[gureski]

Favre is looking out for his own interests - he wants to win, and feels he doesn't have much time left. So, for him, Randy Moss was a no-brainer. That's an understandable point of view.

From the organizational point of view, however, it's not necessarily a slam dunk. It's clear that the Pack would have had to have topped NE's offer, which may have meant a third round pick or a fourth and sixth or fourth and fifth. At that cost, you have a guy coming in who may or may not be the guy he used to be, playing with a QB that may or may not play more than just this season. You have the salary cap room, yes, but should Favre retire after the season you are left with an historically impatient quarerback-eater who will cost a fair amount of money while potentially polluting the lockerroom.

I don't mind criticism of TT - there are some things he's screwed up, the Walker situation for example, in my mind - but it ought to be based on something other than revisionist history.

For the vast majority of Favre's career, he's played on winning teams (thanks in part to his own skills) and been to two Super Bowls. He's very fortunate - many excellent players do not get the opportunities that he has had. I respect that he's frustrated, but I don't think the Packers "owed" him Randy Moss if the team did not think getting Moss was a good move for the organization.

I want to remind everyone that Favre offerring his own money to finalize the deal with Moss is the ultimate sign of being a team player. He was offerring his own money to get a deal done. He was recruiting Moss. He did it for the team. He is part of the team. Yeah, he wants to win. Since when did wanting to win become selfish or indicitive of a player looking out for themself?

ON the Moss deal, the way I read it, I don't think the Packers had to top N.E.'s offer. I think that, listening to Favre's comments, that Thompson had a window to seal the deal before N.E. took the lead. Favre was very clear that the Packers could've had Moss and that money was the sticking factor. IF Favre said he'd pay the $3 million out of his own contract than Thompson has no excuse for not making the deal. You have to undestand that if an offer was on the table, and it's pretty clear that Thompson did have an offer on the table to trade for Moss, then Thompson had already decided that he was okay with taking Moss on. The final issue was the money and Favre seemingly stepped up to address that.

IF Thompson had all the tools to get Moss at his fingertips and refused to make the deal then he deserves criticism. If he led Favre to believe he was trying to make the deal and then, in the end, Thompson literally chose not to make the deal, then THompson will have earned fair criticism.

Speaking of earning.....Favre earned his playoff appearances while in G.B.. Those that are acting like he owes something to the Packers because he was on good teams are getting a bit liberal with the facts. Favre wasn't handed anything. He earned it. Any success he had is the result of hard work on his part, and the part of his teammates. You can say he's been fortunate to play with teammates like Reggie White but Favre doesn't owe anyone anything for playing on winning teams. On the contrary, the franchise owes Favre a great deal for those teams being winners. Favre was one of the biggest, if not the single biggest, factor in the Packers winning over the past 15 years. YOu can't turn that around now and say Favre should feel lucky he got a chance to win. He earned what he got.

[Packnut]

Certain people oughta be locked in a room and forced to watch 24 hrs straight of Scott Hunter, Scott Campbell, Randy White, and Jerry T just to name a few. Then again the minority opinion is usually off the wall which is why it's the MINORITY opinion. The great number of Packer fans appreciate and respect Favre and only a complete idiot would dispute that.

Most people who express minority opinions usually do so just to get a reaction...........

Or... they could watch Bart Starr, Lynn Dickey and Don Majkowski. In the 47 seasons from 1960 through 2006, between Starr, Dickey, Majkowski and Favre the Packers have had nearly 40 years with a pretty decent #1 QB.

Believe it or not, at some point in the future, the Packers will have another competent QB other than Brett Favre. I have no idea if it will be Aaron Rodgers, or Ingle Martin, or someone not yet on the Packers, or someone not yet born. Maybe it will be a free agent or someone traded for. But there will be someone


Yes, but as history has proven time and time again, finding the next QB will be a very painful process.......

[pbmax]

Why would you want a guy on your team that has quit on previous teams whose fortunes were going better than the Packer's right now?

Why guarantee a salary to a player who has been frequently getting injured?

Why remove the ability to withold game checks from a malcontent by guaranteeing the salary?

Packnut is right, finding the next QB will likely be painful and a long process (although Patler listed Starr, Dickey and Majikowski earlier as evidence it isn't impossible to find good ones).

But why sully the reputation of the team for minimal gain and sacrificing money and draft picks?

At least K Rob cost nothing in picks and has a minimal salary.

[gureski]

Why would you want a guy on your team that has quit on previous teams whose fortunes were going better than the Packer's right now?

Why guarantee a salary to a player who has been frequently getting injured?

Why remove the ability to withold game checks from a malcontent by guaranteeing the salary?

Packnut is right, finding the next QB will likely be painful and a long process (although Patler listed Starr, Dickey and Majikowski earlier as evidence it isn't impossible to find good ones).

But why sully the reputation of the team for minimal gain and sacrificing money and draft picks?

At least K Rob cost nothing in picks and has a minimal salary.

This isn't about whether it was right to get Moss or not. The point about this situation is whether or not Thompson told Favre he wanted Moss, then made an offer for Moss, and finally killed the deal after it was a go. That's what we need to know. WHY did Thompson not make the deal, if all the pieces were in place to do the deal? That's what matters. What matters is whether or not Thompson purposely chose not to improve the team. What matters is whether the GM hung Favre out to dry. Favre is recruiting and offering his own money to finalize the deal. The Raiders and Pack agree on a pick. What's the hold up at that point? IF that all happened the way Favre paints it, don't you want to know why Thompson refused to do the deal? Isn't that the real issue?

[Packnut]

Certain people oughta be locked in a room and forced to watch 24 hrs straight of Scott Hunter, Scott Campbell, Randy White, and Jerry T just to name a few. Then again the minority opinion is usually off the wall which is why it's the MINORITY opinion. The great number of Packer fans appreciate and respect Favre and only a complete idiot would dispute that.

Most people who express minority opinions usually do so just to get a reaction...........

People have differing opinions all the time and despite you're common insultes, people here have remained civil and reasonable toward you. You can make a point without calling someone an idiot. Acctually, people would probably take your point a lot mroe seriously because name calling really does turn poeple off.

Shut up and grow some thicker skin. If a little name calling hurts your feeilngs then you may want to go to the kiddie thread. Give me a break. This was the biggest overstatement about someone going personal that I've ever heard. The guy used the word 'idiot' and now he's Imus-P.R. style?

With that said, I can't believe the crap I'm reading in this thread on a subject in which NOBODY even knows what Favre really said about being traded! Anonymous sources? That's all the story about Favre asking for a trade was based on.

I always find it amusing when so many of you line up and open your mouth before you know what has even happened.

Here is what we know:

Favre criticized the Packers for not signing Randy Moss. He inferred that the offense needs help and that management isn't providing that help despite having the cap room to do so.

Anonymous sources said Favre demanded a trade.

That's it. That's all we know.

Shouldn't what was really said, and the context it was said in, matter?

Hypothetically, what if Favre and Thompson were in a heated argument in which Thompson was acting like an A-hole? What if, in that same argument, Thompson insulted Favre and Favre turned around and told him to trade him?

Would that be viewed differently than Favre just calling up, out of the blue, and demanding a trade?

I'm merely asking whether the actual facts and the context of what was said matters to some of you? To me, it does. To some of you, I don't think it matters. You just want to attack, attack, attack.... And I've seen this not only with Favre. There is a camp that hates Favre and wants to attack him. There is a camp that hates THompson and wants to attack him. There is a camp that hates Sherman and likes to attack him. It's crazy sometimes to see it happen but some of you just want to attack despite the facts.

If criticizing the GM is wrong than every single one of you guys out there that have griped about the Packers off-season and draft need to condemn yourself too. Are you going to tell me that Favre can't rip the GM but you can? What the GM does actually has a real life affect on Favre and his life.

There are two things that I thought of when this happened. Make it three...

1. God, I hope this isn't true.

2. The people who ripped Favre for speaking on Walker (I was not one of those guys) can now legitimately take a shot at Favre and say that had Favre kept his mouth shut that he'd have the big play WR that he so badly desires in J.Walker. It's a valid point for those that ripped Favre about ripping Walker. The Packers wouldn't have needed Moss if they hadn't been forced into an ugly situation that led to trading Walker and Favre helped push Walker out of G.B..

3. Favre isn't saying anything that many fans haven't also been saying about Thompson.

Those were my thoughts. I sat and listened to guys on the radio say how Favre has earned everything and should be given anything he wants. I listened to guys talking about how dumb Thompson is and how he dropped the ball and should be fired. I listened to people rip Favre and say how disgusted they are with him. I listened to fans list player after player that they wished we would've signed and I just shook my head. It's all so stupid. The comments are so stupid. All of them, on both sides of the issue.

First, nobody knows what was really said. Why haven't we learned that anonymous sources aren't reliable? How many times in the past have anonymous sources proven to be garbage in the end?

But that doesn't stop some people from taking the comments from anonymous sources and running with it. Bulldog was rather passionate in his comments but if you look at everything he said, it will become very clear, very fast that he has an agenda. Bulldog doesn't like Favre right now. He talks about how Favre loves the attention he gets when the retirement topic comes up every year. How does Bulldog know that Favre enjoys that? Doesn't the fact that Bulldog is taking such an overly biased stance on Favre that he dramatically jumps to the point of ripping his leadership abilities and questioning what Favre's comments do to little kids.....doesn't that call into question the legitimacy of Bulldog's comments? We don't even fully know what Favre said yet Bulldog is sure it will hurt little kids. That's just crazy! Bulldog doesn't even respect the context of Favre's comments that we do know Favre made! I see a guy, in Bulldog, who is pissed at #4 and is letting it all out because he thinks he has an issue. It doesn't matter if the issue is real, he just wants to get his shots in and lead as many others to his view as possible. He doesn't need evidence. This backs up what he's thought for a while. That's all the evidence he needs. I can understand him going off the way he is but what's the excuse of many of the rest of you?

On to Ted Thompson...

According to Favre, the only thing standing in the way of the Packers getting Moss was Thompson guaranteeing $3 million in the first year. Favre says he called and offerred to have the $3 million taken out of his contract. IF that's true, than Thompson deserves some heat right now and this is probably the real root of this issue with Favre. Just thinking about this and the best information we have right now.... Favre says he offerred to take the $3 million out of his own deal to pay for Moss. Favre says the deal fell through because Thompson refused to guarantee the $3 million. IF Thompson was willing to deal a pick for Moss and the only thing standing in the way was $$$ AND IF Favre was willing to pay the money himself, out of his own deal, than what excuse does Thompson have for not making the deal? It would appear as if Thompson really did something questionable that goes against making the team better. What risk was present in finishing the deal for Moss IF Favre was fronting the cash? IF Thompson had an offer on the table for Moss than that means that he was prepared to have him on the team so it's no longer an issue of whether Moss would kill the locker room or other questions like that.....IF it all came down to money and Favre was willing to underwrite the deal......why would Thompson shoot that down?

For me, that's the million dollar question. That's what I want to know more about. I want to know if Thompson screwed Favre (and all the fans) over. I want to know if Favre was out there recruiting Moss, with the blessing of management, and being told that the team wanted to do the deal only to watch Thompson literally refuse to do the deal when he had the chance. IF that happened, I want to know why and Packer fans deserve to know why. We spend our money on this team. We faithfully follow this team. IF Thompson had a deal in place for Moss in which Favre was willing to take money out of his contract to get the deal done.....than Thompson owes us an explanation. We need to known if there is truth to the, 'Thompson wants Favre gone' conspiracy theory. It's always been hanging there and now, if this happened the way Favre says it did, than this is a potential bit of evidence that Thompson is actually trying to force an end to the Favre era. I know it's ridiculous but you have to go where the facts take you. WHY would Thompson not pull the trigger on the deal if there was no risk? When you offer a draft pick for a player, you've already decided you want the player on your team. The only thing in the way of the deal being closed was money and Favre, according to his own comments, offerred to be the source of that money. What excuse does Thompson have for not doing the deal and giving the team another legitimate weapon? It doesn't make sense.

On Favre....

IF he was screwed over by Thompson and lied to or if Favre knows something we don't about the way Thompson is going about doing business than I can't fault Favre for criticizing Thompson. People are lining up to rip Favre yet lost in the emotion is the fact that Favre was willing to put his own money on the line in order to make the team better! Packer fans have had the luxary of watching Favre over the past 15 years so we known what he's all about. His personality and moral structure is one of the chief reasons people love Favre. Why would he suddenly turn into a turd? It doesn't make sense. Something is up. Favre saying something is a sign that something larger is going on here. He's NOT a 'me' player. Even in this situation, Favre offerred to give Thompson the money to make the Moss deal work. Isn't that one of the ultimate sacrifices a player can make? Isn't that the ultimate team player? By offerring money to Thompson so that Thompson can improve the team AND by physically picking up the phone and recruiting a player to come to G.B.....isn't that the ultimate help a guy can give the GM?

Something doesn't jive right now and the only thing I know for sure is that I trust Favre. I've watched Favre for well over a decade. From the little bit I've seen from Ted Thompson, he makes me feel like I can't trust him. I know Thompson knows talent. I know Thompson can draft and I know he is doing a great job with the salary cap. I don't know if Thompson is doing everything he can to make this team the best it can be right now. I don't know if the cap room Thompson is creating is being used properly. I think everything he is doing is geared towards the future, at the cost of the past 2 seasons and maybe this season. Creating cap room is only good if you use it to improve the team. I've been patient and a defender of Thompson, still now believing there wasnt' much in free agency this year for Thompson to go after and I did NOT want to see him overpay for some of the leftovers that were out there but if Thompson had a deal in place for Moss and Favre's money to help ease the financial ramifications then Thompson has no excuse. He will have purposely screwed Favre and the team and if I'm Favre.....and IF I believe that my boss lied to me and isn't trying to make the team better......then I'd speak up too. If you thought your boss had lied to you and if you thought, in the world of professional sports, that your boss wasn't trying to make the team better than you'd speak up too. Instead of ripping Favre for comments he may or may not have said I think all of us should be begging reporters to get more information on what really happened so we can find out if our GM is really trying to win.

This is a controversy but not the one people are caught up in. The controversy isn't Favre or even whether he asked for a trade. It's THompson. What is he doing and why is he doing it? What's going on behind the scenes with Thompson? Is he purposely driving Favre away? Did Thompson lie? What were Thompson's motives, if he did? What are the ramifications if Thompson is running the show in a less than ethical manner? Will players steer away from G.B. because of Thompson? Is Thompson really trying to improve this team and give players like Favre the tools to win? This is the controversy. It's not Favre. Get your heads out of your ass long enough to realize that Favre has, and still is, the ultimate team player! In this story he offerred his own money to get the deal done to help the team! He's always been like that. It's why the entire NFL loves the guy and wants to play with him. If something is up between Thompson and Favre then I'd be more prone to question Thompson than I would to question Favre. 15 years of watching the guy buys him some benefit of the doubt, in my mind. I'm not relieving Favre of any criticism, (I said the Walker people have a right to Rip Favre hard right now) but I am willing to give this some time before I start taking hard stances about how Favre is wrong and is hurting little kids. We don't know yet who is right or wrong.

The bottom line is that we need more information and I really hope the right questions are asked. This isn't about Favre being traded. This is about Thompson and what happened. We need to know what happened.

Damn,I must have missed that memo about you becoming God. I guess you do know everything, (well at least in your own mind). As far as the comment I made about public opinion being on Favre's side, may-be instead of trying to control what someone else's opinion is, you should actually go to all the Packer web-sites and try reading what other people have to say. Public sentiment is running heavily on Favre's side.

As far as me shutting up, that ain't gonna happen. I have every right to post my opinion as you do and although I can't be sure, I don't think anyone is holding a gun to your head forcing you to read what I post. I suggest you ignore me as I have ignored you for the most part for quite a while now. Life is short, and no sense in wasting anymore time. Have a nice life and I hope you get everything that you deserve.........

[gureski]

I was standing up for you, ya moron. You said people who couldn't see something were idiots (or something along those lines) and this other guy got his undies in a bunch. I told him to grow some thicker skin, much like I am right now. We need not grow righteous because someone called someone an idiot or stupid. Re-read my comments. I was standing up for you and saying that saying 'idiot' wasn't an example of going personal.

[pbmax]

Guaranteed money is enough reason for me to refuse to sign Moss.

The other reason would be that the Packers were being used to drive up the offer from the preferred team. There would seem to be a good chance that if the Packers offered the money, that Moss would have run back to New England for another offer, or continued to make demands.



Why would you want a guy on your team that has quit on previous teams whose fortunes were going better than the Packer's right now?

Why guarantee a salary to a player who has been frequently getting injured?

Why remove the ability to withold game checks from a malcontent by guaranteeing the salary?

Packnut is right, finding the next QB will likely be painful and a long process (although Patler listed Starr, Dickey and Majikowski earlier as evidence it isn't impossible to find good ones).

But why sully the reputation of the team for minimal gain and sacrificing money and draft picks?

At least K Rob cost nothing in picks and has a minimal salary.

This isn't about whether it was right to get Moss or not. The point about this situation is whether or not Thompson told Favre he wanted Moss, then made an offer for Moss, and finally killed the deal after it was a go. That's what we need to know. WHY did Thompson not make the deal, if all the pieces were in place to do the deal? That's what matters. What matters is whether or not Thompson purposely chose not to improve the team. What matters is whether the GM hung Favre out to dry. Favre is recruiting and offering his own money to finalize the deal. The Raiders and Pack agree on a pick. What's the hold up at that point? IF that all happened the way Favre paints it, don't you want to know why Thompson refused to do the deal? Isn't that the real issue?

[gureski]

It would appear, though we don't know for sure right now, that Thompson may have had a window to do the deal before N.E. came in and pushed the Packers aside. Favre is clear that the Packers had the chance. In 15 years in G.B. we've never seen him get this mad. Doesn't it make you want to know what happened? What if Thompson had a chance, as Favre is saying, to close the deal before N.E. got involved?

[Scott Campbell]

Yes, but as history has proven time and time again, finding the next QB will be a very painful process.......


Proof????

I always assumed that Montana to Young was proof that it ain't always the case.

[PackerBlues]

This isn't about whether it was right to get Moss or not. The point about this situation is whether or not Thompson told Favre he wanted Moss, then made an offer for Moss, and finally killed the deal after it was a go. That's what we need to know. WHY did Thompson not make the deal, if all the pieces were in place to do the deal? That's what matters. What matters is whether or not Thompson purposely chose not to improve the team. What matters is whether the GM hung Favre out to dry. Favre is recruiting and offering his own money to finalize the deal. The Raiders and Pack agree on a pick. What's the hold up at that point? IF that all happened the way Favre paints it, don't you want to know why Thompson refused to do the deal? Isn't that the real issue?

gureski, very well put, and I agree. I am sure many others do too. If anyone needs proof that this is a matter that bothers many many Packer fans, go ahead and "google" the words FIRE TED THOMPSON.........see how many hits you come up with....you may be suprised by how many people are upset with this situation. I think people would be suprised by the number of petitions out there to fire Ted.

Right or wrong, there are a lot of people looking at Thompson far more closely than what they were previously, and yes, Favre's statements are the main reason for that. A number of people are very loyal to Thompson in these forums. And perhaps those people are in the majority in these forums. However, all around the Packer Nation, people are complaining about Thompson, and while the Thompson loyalist may be in the majority here in these forums, in the state of Wisconsin altogether, I think you are going to find yourselves in the minority.

[Scott Campbell]

Damn,I must have missed that memo about you becoming God.


It looked a little fishy - backdated to 33BC.

[pbmax]

Possibly, but it makes more sense for the Raiders to wait as long as possible to attract more offers. And you never know how the draft will unfold and someone could get antsy after the WRs leave the board.

I don't think it was in the interest of the Raiders to do anything early.


It would appear, though we don't know for sure right now, that Thompson may have had a window to do the deal before N.E. came in and pushed the Packers aside. Favre is clear that the Packers had the chance. In 15 years in G.B. we've never seen him get this mad. Doesn't it make you want to know what happened? What if Thompson had a chance, as Favre is saying, to close the deal before N.E. got involved?

[PackerBlues]

Possibly, but it makes more sense for the Raiders to wait as long as possible to attract more offers. And you never know how the draft will unfold and someone could get antsy after the WRs leave the board.

I don't think it was in the interest of the Raiders to do anything early.



I agree whole heartedly. It would have been in the best interest of the Packers Offense if the Packers organization had pushed harder for the trade though.

[MadtownPacker]

How many playoff chances did Green Bay give Favre? How many winning seasons? It's not like he played most of his career without legitimate playoff opportunities. He played in two Super Bowls, and had reasonably good chances to get to others. He even had the chance to be "the guy" on decent, but not great or favored teams which he could have carried through the playoffs with HOF performances. Several times he was not up to the task.

It's not like he hasn't had his chances. many players would be thrilled with half the chances Favre has had. Just because the last two seasons have been down years, I don't feel sorry one bit for Favre. He has had many, many chances. Yes, the team has had to rebuild. They had an amazing run. Just because it happens to coincide with the end of Favre's career doesn't make it an injustice to him.OK, Im gonna give this a shot...

At the same time can't it be said about how many "chances" Favre gave the Pack? How many times was the team around him not "up to task" to get the job done (example: 2002)? Yet he rain or shine, good game or bad game he has been the constant in a time when QBs are gone thru like paper plates. He deserves as much credit for the last 17 years of success as much as anyone.

I know he shouldnt have spoke up but dammit, this guy deserves some slack. You guys raining down on him have your points but at the same time dont we all want a winner?

Favre helps make the Packers a winner. Love him or hate him that cant be denied.

As stupid as this sounds, Bearman is right. Favre on last years bears SB team = a SB win. Grossman on last years Packers team = 3-13 or something like that.

Get ready cuz that is likely what is in store after this season.

[MadtownPacker]

Gureski, I wish I had your writing skillz to express what Im thinking. Great posts and great points top to bottom.

[gureski]

Gureski, I wish I had your writing skillz to express what Im thinking. Great posts and great points top to bottom.

And people thought I only cared about ripping Craig Nall....hmmmph..

[Scott Campbell]

Gureski, I wish I had your writing skillz to express what Im thinking. Great posts and great points top to bottom.

And people thought I only cared about ripping Craig Nall....hmmmph..

First he blows some smoke up your ass. And now he's going to PM you asking your to write some articles.

:)

[Patler]

Yes, but as history has proven time and time again, finding the next QB will be a very painful process.......


Proof????

I always assumed that Montana to Young was proof that it ain't always the case.

Even on the Packers, the transition from Majkowski to Favre was painless (except for the growing pains with Favre!) The transition from Dickey to Majkowski as the #1 QB had just one full year of Randy Wright . The following year Majkowski was on the scene and progressively took over.

[Scott Campbell]

Excellent point.

Maybe we can ask PackNut to change is post to:

Yes, but as history has proven sometimes and sometimes again, finding the next QB may, or may not be a very painful process......

:shock:

[gureski]

I just want to say that all the little kids are safe now. Favre made a statement that he wants to be on the team and that he likes his teammates. I know Bulldog and some others out there were seriously worried about the social ramifications Favre's comments were having on little children. :P

It's okay now. The children are safe again...

[gureski]

Excellent point.

Maybe we can ask PackNut to change is post to:

Yes, but as history has proven sometimes and sometimes again, finding the next QB may, or may not be a very painful process......

:shock:

This is a little off-topic but I've been meaning to write this and you have left me a great opening...

Here is why I can't hate what Thompson has done thus far by ignoring offense and concentrating on defense....

Who knows who the next successful QB in G.B. will be OR how long it will take to get to that point? It's a total crap-shoot. It could take years and years or it could take one game. The bottom line is that there will be a transition to whomever takes over from Favre and the best way for the Green Bay Packers to successfully weather that change is to build a stud defense that can keep the team in games regardless what the offense does. We know that a stud defense can win a title. The Ravens proved that and the Bears went to the Superbowl just last year by riding defense. By building the defense right now, Thompson is ensuring the team will be competative now and in the future. Favre has proven that he can carry an offense. Favre can keep the O afloat and if Favre can keep things going long enough for Thompson to get his defensive pieces in place, then the team will be in damn good shape going forward, after Favre leaves. The problem with that is Favre is being used and Favre knows it. Just having Favre on the field makes the line better, the WR's better, and the RB's better. His ability to scramble and get rid of the ball makes the line look better than it is. His ability to throw the ball a mile, make plays out of nothing, and make plays in general makes the WR's look better. His ability to pass makes the RB's better by forcing the defense to respect the pass. No matter how you look at things, Favre makes the players around him better so it's understandable that THompson may be thinking that he can spend his time on defense right now. He can worry about offense later, after Favre is gone. In my opinion, this is why Favre is pissed. He knows Thompson is taking him for granted and isn't planning on giving Favre much of a push before he retires. He may get the pieces in place for one title run for Favre but it's not a given.

I have trouble with this because I want to see that run for Favre but I also want to see long-term success for the team. Yeah, I get pissed at Thompson but is it right to get pissed at him if he's doing the right thing by keeping this team competative over the long haul?

I'm torn. That's why this Moss question has really sparked my interest. IF Thompson had Moss and just didn't pull the trigger than he's gone beyond just building for the future and is stiffling any moves aimed at today. I'm okay with building for the future but not at the cost of today. You should still win now, if you can. You should still add players that can contribute now, if you have an opening. AN example of this would be safety. Two years ago, after Thompson took over, I was furious that he didn't sign a safety. There were multiple safeties out there and the team could've picked one up. HOW MANY games has the safety position cost this team over the past two years? How much of the defense has been bottled up because the coaches have to call plays designed to cover the weakness of the safety (Roman/Manuel) that is on the field? Had Thompson signed a guy like Kennedy or D.Smith or some of the other players that were out there then maybe the team could've had a few more wins. Last year alone, one win would've been the difference between making the playoffs and not making the playoffs. A better safety couldn't have helped finish off the Saints after we were up by 3 TD's? And how would have adding a safety hurt the youth movement? It wouldn't have. But Thompson didn't sign a guy. We still, today, have no answer at safety. Safety is an example of a position Thompson has screwed up by his 'build for tomorrow' methodology. You can take that too far. There's nothing wrong with signing a stop-gap until you find the right rookie to plug in and groom. Signing veteran stop-gap players to hold spots down until younger players were ready is one of the things Ron Wolf did best. If he didn't have a player on the bench, ready to take over then he would go get a vet like a Fred Strickland or a Don Beebe to do the job. Wolf was great at this. Thompson isn't proving so well in this area.

So, there....I've been wanting to say that. Thompson is really doing well by building the defense. It's the key to keeping the team from bottoming out after Favre leaves but still.....don't we all want to see Favre make another run at a title? And if we do....at what cost do we want that? 1 losing season? 2 losing seasons in the future? How much of the future do we want to give up to see another run? It's one tough question.

[retailguy]

I'm torn. That's why this Moss question has really sparked my interest. IF Thompson had Moss and just didn't pull the trigger than he's gone beyond just building for the future and is stiffling any moves aimed at today. I'm okay with building for the future but not at the cost of today. You should still win now, if you can. You should still add players that can contribute now, if you have an opening. AN example of this would be safety. Two years ago, after Thompson took over, I was furious that he didn't sign a safety. There were multiple safeties out there and the team could've picked one up. HOW MANY games has the safety position cost this team over the past two years? How much of the defense has been bottled up because the coaches have to call plays designed to cover the weakness of the safety (Roman/Manuel) that is on the field? Had Thompson signed a guy like Kennedy or D.Smith or some of the other players that were out there then maybe the team could've had a few more wins. Last year alone, one win would've been the difference between making the playoffs and not making the playoffs. A better safety couldn't have helped finish off the Saints after we were up by 3 TD's? And how would have adding a safety hurt the youth movement? It wouldn't have. But Thompson didn't sign a guy. We still, today, have no answer at safety. Safety is an example of a position Thompson has screwed up by his 'build for tomorrow' methodology. You can take that too far. There's nothing wrong with signing a stop-gap until you find the right rookie to plug in and groom.


I've made a habit out of letting your posts go by, but can't do it with this one.

The bolded sections above were largely what I said (very emphatically) over the loss of Ahman Green. You told me that I was a FOOL because I essentially didn't understand "short term value", then set down a "proposed list of rules" to negotiate on, and then told me the story of the "worth" of a TACO. Remember?

I offically nominate you for the title of "FLIP FLOP RAT". You've earned it.

BTW - I largely agree with this version. Thanks for clearing up your perspective.

[Scott Campbell]

Here is why I can't hate what Thompson has done thus far by ignoring offense and concentrating on defense....


The rest of your post was terrific. But I disagree with the above.


Ignoring the offense?

He replace a 3rd round pick (Green) with a 2nd round pick (Jackson).

He drafted:

2 RB's
2 WR's
1 OT
1 TE
1 LB that he's converting to a TE

So drafting 7 players for the offense in a 7 round draft is ignoring the offense?

[woodbuck27]

Excellent point.

Maybe we can ask PackNut to change is post to:

Yes, but as history has proven sometimes and sometimes again, finding the next QB may, or may not be a very painful process......

:shock:

This is a little off-topic but I've been meaning to write this and you have left me a great opening...

Here is why I can't hate what Thompson has done thus far by ignoring offense and concentrating on defense....

Who knows who the next successful QB in G.B. will be OR how long it will take to get to that point? It's a total crap-shoot. It could take years and years or it could take one game. The bottom line is that there will be a transition to whomever takes over from Favre and the best way for the Green Bay Packers to successfully weather that change is to build a stud defense that can keep the team in games regardless what the offense does. We know that a stud defense can win a title. The Ravens proved that and the Bears went to the Superbowl just last year by riding defense. By building the defense right now, Thompson is ensuring the team will be competative now and in the future. Favre has proven that he can carry an offense. Favre can keep the O afloat and if Favre can keep things going long enough for Thompson to get his defensive pieces in place, then the team will be in damn good shape going forward, after Favre leaves. The problem with that is Favre is being used and Favre knows it. Just having Favre on the field makes the line better, the WR's better, and the RB's better. His ability to scramble and get rid of the ball makes the line look better than it is. His ability to throw the ball a mile, make plays out of nothing, and make plays in general makes the WR's look better. His ability to pass makes the RB's better by forcing the defense to respect the pass. No matter how you look at things, Favre makes the players around him better so it's understandable that THompson may be thinking that he can spend his time on defense right now. He can worry about offense later, after Favre is gone. In my opinion, this is why Favre is pissed. He knows Thompson is taking him for granted and isn't planning on giving Favre much of a push before he retires. He may get the pieces in place for one title run for Favre but it's not a given.

I have trouble with this because I want to see that run for Favre but I also want to see long-term success for the team. Yeah, I get pissed at Thompson but is it right to get pissed at him if he's doing the right thing by keeping this team competative over the long haul?

I'm torn. That's why this Moss question has really sparked my interest. IF Thompson had Moss and just didn't pull the trigger than he's gone beyond just building for the future and is stiffling any moves aimed at today. I'm okay with building for the future but not at the cost of today. You should still win now, if you can. You should still add players that can contribute now, if you have an opening. AN example of this would be safety. Two years ago, after Thompson took over, I was furious that he didn't sign a safety. There were multiple safeties out there and the team could've picked one up. HOW MANY games has the safety position cost this team over the past two years? How much of the defense has been bottled up because the coaches have to call plays designed to cover the weakness of the safety (Roman/Manuel) that is on the field? Had Thompson signed a guy like Kennedy or D.Smith or some of the other players that were out there then maybe the team could've had a few more wins. Last year alone, one win would've been the difference between making the playoffs and not making the playoffs. A better safety couldn't have helped finish off the Saints after we were up by 3 TD's? And how would have adding a safety hurt the youth movement? It wouldn't have. But Thompson didn't sign a guy. We still, today, have no answer at safety. Safety is an example of a position Thompson has screwed up by his 'build for tomorrow' methodology. You can take that too far. There's nothing wrong with signing a stop-gap until you find the right rookie to plug in and groom. Signing veteran stop-gap players to hold spots down until younger players were ready is one of the things Ron Wolf did best. If he didn't have a player on the bench, ready to take over then he would go get a vet like a Fred Strickland or a Don Beebe to do the job. Wolf was great at this. Thompson isn't proving so well in this area.

So, there....I've been wanting to say that. Thompson is really doing well by building the defense. It's the key to keeping the team from bottoming out after Favre leaves but still.....don't we all want to see Favre make another run at a title? And if we do....at what cost do we want that? 1 losing season? 2 losing seasons in the future? How much of the future do we want to give up to see another run? It's one tough question.

Outstanding post gureski.

[Patler]

Excellent point.

Maybe we can ask PackNut to change is post to:

Yes, but as history has proven sometimes and sometimes again, finding the next QB may, or may not be a very painful process......

:shock:

This is a little off-topic but I've been meaning to write this and you have left me a great opening...

Here is why I can't hate what Thompson has done thus far by ignoring offense and concentrating on defense....

Who knows who the next successful QB in G.B. will be OR how long it will take to get to that point? It's a total crap-shoot. It could take years and years or it could take one game. The bottom line is that there will be a transition to whomever takes over from Favre and the best way for the Green Bay Packers to successfully weather that change is to build a stud defense that can keep the team in games regardless what the offense does. We know that a stud defense can win a title. The Ravens proved that and the Bears went to the Superbowl just last year by riding defense. By building the defense right now, Thompson is ensuring the team will be competative now and in the future. Favre has proven that he can carry an offense. Favre can keep the O afloat and if Favre can keep things going long enough for Thompson to get his defensive pieces in place, then the team will be in damn good shape going forward, after Favre leaves. The problem with that is Favre is being used and Favre knows it. Just having Favre on the field makes the line better, the WR's better, and the RB's better. His ability to scramble and get rid of the ball makes the line look better than it is. His ability to throw the ball a mile, make plays out of nothing, and make plays in general makes the WR's look better. His ability to pass makes the RB's better by forcing the defense to respect the pass. No matter how you look at things, Favre makes the players around him better so it's understandable that THompson may be thinking that he can spend his time on defense right now. He can worry about offense later, after Favre is gone. In my opinion, this is why Favre is pissed. He knows Thompson is taking him for granted and isn't planning on giving Favre much of a push before he retires. He may get the pieces in place for one title run for Favre but it's not a given.

I have trouble with this because I want to see that run for Favre but I also want to see long-term success for the team. Yeah, I get pissed at Thompson but is it right to get pissed at him if he's doing the right thing by keeping this team competative over the long haul?

I'm torn. That's why this Moss question has really sparked my interest. IF Thompson had Moss and just didn't pull the trigger than he's gone beyond just building for the future and is stiffling any moves aimed at today. I'm okay with building for the future but not at the cost of today. You should still win now, if you can. You should still add players that can contribute now, if you have an opening. AN example of this would be safety. Two years ago, after Thompson took over, I was furious that he didn't sign a safety. There were multiple safeties out there and the team could've picked one up. HOW MANY games has the safety position cost this team over the past two years? How much of the defense has been bottled up because the coaches have to call plays designed to cover the weakness of the safety (Roman/Manuel) that is on the field? Had Thompson signed a guy like Kennedy or D.Smith or some of the other players that were out there then maybe the team could've had a few more wins. Last year alone, one win would've been the difference between making the playoffs and not making the playoffs. A better safety couldn't have helped finish off the Saints after we were up by 3 TD's? And how would have adding a safety hurt the youth movement? It wouldn't have. But Thompson didn't sign a guy. We still, today, have no answer at safety. Safety is an example of a position Thompson has screwed up by his 'build for tomorrow' methodology. You can take that too far. There's nothing wrong with signing a stop-gap until you find the right rookie to plug in and groom. Signing veteran stop-gap players to hold spots down until younger players were ready is one of the things Ron Wolf did best. If he didn't have a player on the bench, ready to take over then he would go get a vet like a Fred Strickland or a Don Beebe to do the job. Wolf was great at this. Thompson isn't proving so well in this area.

So, there....I've been wanting to say that. Thompson is really doing well by building the defense. It's the key to keeping the team from bottoming out after Favre leaves but still.....don't we all want to see Favre make another run at a title? And if we do....at what cost do we want that? 1 losing season? 2 losing seasons in the future? How much of the future do we want to give up to see another run? It's one tough question.

Outstanding post gureski.

HORRIBLE post gureski. I haven't even read it, but I thought SOMEONE should rpovide the opposite view!


:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

[woodbuck27]

Certain people oughta be locked in a room and forced to watch 24 hrs straight of Scott Hunter, Scott Campbell, Randy White, and Jerry T just to name a few. Then again the minority opinion is usually off the wall which is why it's the MINORITY opinion. The great number of Packer fans appreciate and respect Favre and only a complete idiot would dispute that.

Most people who express minority opinions usually do so just to get a reaction...........

People have differing opinions all the time and despite you're common insultes, people here have remained civil and reasonable toward you. You can make a point without calling someone an idiot. Acctually, people would probably take your point a lot mroe seriously because name calling really does turn poeple off.

Shut up and grow some thicker skin. If a little name calling hurts your feeilngs then you may want to go to the kiddie thread. Give me a break. This was the biggest overstatement about someone going personal that I've ever heard. The guy used the word 'idiot' and now he's Imus-P.R. style?

With that said, I can't believe the crap I'm reading in this thread on a subject in which NOBODY even knows what Favre really said about being traded! Anonymous sources? That's all the story about Favre asking for a trade was based on.

I always find it amusing when so many of you line up and open your mouth before you know what has even happened.

Here is what we know:

Favre criticized the Packers for not signing Randy Moss. He inferred that the offense needs help and that management isn't providing that help despite having the cap room to do so.

Anonymous sources said Favre demanded a trade.

That's it. That's all we know.

Shouldn't what was really said, and the context it was said in, matter?

Hypothetically, what if Favre and Thompson were in a heated argument in which Thompson was acting like an A-hole? What if, in that same argument, Thompson insulted Favre and Favre turned around and told him to trade him?

Would that be viewed differently than Favre just calling up, out of the blue, and demanding a trade?

I'm merely asking whether the actual facts and the context of what was said matters to some of you? To me, it does. To some of you, I don't think it matters. You just want to attack, attack, attack.... And I've seen this not only with Favre. There is a camp that hates Favre and wants to attack him. There is a camp that hates THompson and wants to attack him. There is a camp that hates Sherman and likes to attack him. It's crazy sometimes to see it happen but some of you just want to attack despite the facts.

If criticizing the GM is wrong than every single one of you guys out there that have griped about the Packers off-season and draft need to condemn yourself too. Are you going to tell me that Favre can't rip the GM but you can? What the GM does actually has a real life affect on Favre and his life.

There are two things that I thought of when this happened. Make it three...

1. God, I hope this isn't true.

2. The people who ripped Favre for speaking on Walker (I was not one of those guys) can now legitimately take a shot at Favre and say that had Favre kept his mouth shut that he'd have the big play WR that he so badly desires in J.Walker. It's a valid point for those that ripped Favre about ripping Walker. The Packers wouldn't have needed Moss if they hadn't been forced into an ugly situation that led to trading Walker and Favre helped push Walker out of G.B..

3. Favre isn't saying anything that many fans haven't also been saying about Thompson.

Those were my thoughts. I sat and listened to guys on the radio say how Favre has earned everything and should be given anything he wants. I listened to guys talking about how dumb Thompson is and how he dropped the ball and should be fired. I listened to people rip Favre and say how disgusted they are with him. I listened to fans list player after player that they wished we would've signed and I just shook my head. It's all so stupid. The comments are so stupid. All of them, on both sides of the issue.

First, nobody knows what was really said. Why haven't we learned that anonymous sources aren't reliable? How many times in the past have anonymous sources proven to be garbage in the end?

But that doesn't stop some people from taking the comments from anonymous sources and running with it. Bulldog was rather passionate in his comments but if you look at everything he said, it will become very clear, very fast that he has an agenda. Bulldog doesn't like Favre right now. He talks about how Favre loves the attention he gets when the retirement topic comes up every year. How does Bulldog know that Favre enjoys that? Doesn't the fact that Bulldog is taking such an overly biased stance on Favre that he dramatically jumps to the point of ripping his leadership abilities and questioning what Favre's comments do to little kids.....doesn't that call into question the legitimacy of Bulldog's comments? We don't even fully know what Favre said yet Bulldog is sure it will hurt little kids. That's just crazy! Bulldog doesn't even respect the context of Favre's comments that we do know Favre made! I see a guy, in Bulldog, who is pissed at #4 and is letting it all out because he thinks he has an issue. It doesn't matter if the issue is real, he just wants to get his shots in and lead as many others to his view as possible. He doesn't need evidence. This backs up what he's thought for a while. That's all the evidence he needs. I can understand him going off the way he is but what's the excuse of many of the rest of you?

On to Ted Thompson...

According to Favre, the only thing standing in the way of the Packers getting Moss was Thompson guaranteeing $3 million in the first year. Favre says he called and offerred to have the $3 million taken out of his contract. IF that's true, than Thompson deserves some heat right now and this is probably the real root of this issue with Favre. Just thinking about this and the best information we have right now.... Favre says he offerred to take the $3 million out of his own deal to pay for Moss. Favre says the deal fell through because Thompson refused to guarantee the $3 million. IF Thompson was willing to deal a pick for Moss and the only thing standing in the way was $$$ AND IF Favre was willing to pay the money himself, out of his own deal, than what excuse does Thompson have for not making the deal? It would appear as if Thompson really did something questionable that goes against making the team better. What risk was present in finishing the deal for Moss IF Favre was fronting the cash? IF Thompson had an offer on the table for Moss than that means that he was prepared to have him on the team so it's no longer an issue of whether Moss would kill the locker room or other questions like that.....IF it all came down to money and Favre was willing to underwrite the deal......why would Thompson shoot that down?

For me, that's the million dollar question. That's what I want to know more about. I want to know if Thompson screwed Favre (and all the fans) over. I want to know if Favre was out there recruiting Moss, with the blessing of management, and being told that the team wanted to do the deal only to watch Thompson literally refuse to do the deal when he had the chance. IF that happened, I want to know why and Packer fans deserve to know why. We spend our money on this team. We faithfully follow this team. IF Thompson had a deal in place for Moss in which Favre was willing to take money out of his contract to get the deal done.....than Thompson owes us an explanation. We need to known if there is truth to the, 'Thompson wants Favre gone' conspiracy theory. It's always been hanging there and now, if this happened the way Favre says it did, than this is a potential bit of evidence that Thompson is actually trying to force an end to the Favre era. I know it's ridiculous but you have to go where the facts take you. WHY would Thompson not pull the trigger on the deal if there was no risk? When you offer a draft pick for a player, you've already decided you want the player on your team. The only thing in the way of the deal being closed was money and Favre, according to his own comments, offerred to be the source of that money. What excuse does Thompson have for not doing the deal and giving the team another legitimate weapon? It doesn't make sense.

On Favre....

IF he was screwed over by Thompson and lied to or if Favre knows something we don't about the way Thompson is going about doing business than I can't fault Favre for criticizing Thompson. People are lining up to rip Favre yet lost in the emotion is the fact that Favre was willing to put his own money on the line in order to make the team better! Packer fans have had the luxary of watching Favre over the past 15 years so we known what he's all about. His personality and moral structure is one of the chief reasons people love Favre. Why would he suddenly turn into a turd? It doesn't make sense. Something is up. Favre saying something is a sign that something larger is going on here. He's NOT a 'me' player. Even in this situation, Favre offerred to give Thompson the money to make the Moss deal work. Isn't that one of the ultimate sacrifices a player can make? Isn't that the ultimate team player? By offerring money to Thompson so that Thompson can improve the team AND by physically picking up the phone and recruiting a player to come to G.B.....isn't that the ultimate help a guy can give the GM?

Something doesn't jive right now and the only thing I know for sure is that I trust Favre. I've watched Favre for well over a decade. From the little bit I've seen from Ted Thompson, he makes me feel like I can't trust him. I know Thompson knows talent. I know Thompson can draft and I know he is doing a great job with the salary cap. I don't know if Thompson is doing everything he can to make this team the best it can be right now. I don't know if the cap room Thompson is creating is being used properly. I think everything he is doing is geared towards the future, at the cost of the past 2 seasons and maybe this season. Creating cap room is only good if you use it to improve the team. I've been patient and a defender of Thompson, still now believing there wasnt' much in free agency this year for Thompson to go after and I did NOT want to see him overpay for some of the leftovers that were out there but if Thompson had a deal in place for Moss and Favre's money to help ease the financial ramifications then Thompson has no excuse. He will have purposely screwed Favre and the team and if I'm Favre.....and IF I believe that my boss lied to me and isn't trying to make the team better......then I'd speak up too. If you thought your boss had lied to you and if you thought, in the world of professional sports, that your boss wasn't trying to make the team better than you'd speak up too. Instead of ripping Favre for comments he may or may not have said I think all of us should be begging reporters to get more information on what really happened so we can find out if our GM is really trying to win.

This is a controversy but not the one people are caught up in. The controversy isn't Favre or even whether he asked for a trade. It's THompson. What is he doing and why is he doing it? What's going on behind the scenes with Thompson? Is he purposely driving Favre away? Did Thompson lie? What were Thompson's motives, if he did? What are the ramifications if Thompson is running the show in a less than ethical manner? Will players steer away from G.B. because of Thompson? Is Thompson really trying to improve this team and give players like Favre the tools to win? This is the controversy. It's not Favre. Get your heads out of your ass long enough to realize that Favre has, and still is, the ultimate team player! In this story he offerred his own money to get the deal done to help the team! He's always been like that. It's why the entire NFL loves the guy and wants to play with him. If something is up between Thompson and Favre then I'd be more prone to question Thompson than I would to question Favre. 15 years of watching the guy buys him some benefit of the doubt, in my mind. I'm not relieving Favre of any criticism, (I said the Walker people have a right to Rip Favre hard right now) but I am willing to give this some time before I start taking hard stances about how Favre is wrong and is hurting little kids. We don't know yet who is right or wrong.

The bottom line is that we need more information and I really hope the right questions are asked. This isn't about Favre being traded. This is about Thompson and what happened. We need to know what happened.

Another great post guerski.

I believe that for anyone who is open minded and really wants to see into the truth that you have covered it all here.

I like you, only want the facts.

TT may have had a legitimate shot at acquiring Randy Moss (say for a 3rd) at no cost to the team as Favre would cover that cost (gurantees) and TT pass's?

Is that the case?

We are only talking an acquisition of Randy Moss for the 2007 season with low low risk and tons of upside. Not a 2-3 season commitment for Ted Thompson and the Packers.

Surely we re-call the stuff on TT telling Favre to keep out of it or keep his mouth shut last week. Was that a fact? If so,what was that about?

We are aware that TT went to the board to discuss acquiring randy Moss. Why then, if he felt he had to go there to make a move would he discourage Brett Favre in the recruiting process?

The precedent was set in the FA period last season for it's OK for Favre to talk to potential FA's. about what a fine move it would be for that FA to become a Packer. We will recall that was the case.

It appears to me that it's a where there's smole there's fire situation here.

Ted Thompson by the latest reports offered a 5th to acquire Moss.Was that a serious offer or merely postering on behalf of Ted Thompson?

Favre was going to cover the guranteed money end of the deal to bring him in. We were aware of that as a rumor before the draft.

We were aware that Favre wanted Moss and aware that the rumor was that sources said that he (Favre) was 100% sure that Randy Moss would be a Packer for the 2007 season.

As Packer fans and members of this board we deserve to make efforts to acquire the truth. Without just that or the TRUTH, we have no right of judgement on Brett Favre or Ted Thompson or otherwise.

[woodbuck27]

Here is why I can't hate what Thompson has done thus far by ignoring offense and concentrating on defense....


The rest of your post was terrific. But I disagree with the above.


Ignoring the offense?

He replace a 3rd round pick (Green) with a 2nd round pick (Jackson).

He drafted:

2 RB's
2 WR's
1 OT
1 TE
1 LB that he's converting to a TE

So drafting 7 players for the offense in a 7 round draft is ignoring the offense?

They are all ROOKIES !! Any of those acquisitions named Randy Moss Scott ?

Let's try to keep on track here please.

[Scott Campbell]

Here is why I can't hate what Thompson has done thus far by ignoring offense and concentrating on defense....


The rest of your post was terrific. But I disagree with the above.


Ignoring the offense?

He replace a 3rd round pick (Green) with a 2nd round pick (Jackson).

He drafted:

2 RB's
2 WR's
1 OT
1 TE
1 LB that he's converting to a TE

So drafting 7 players for the offense in a 7 round draft is ignoring the offense?

They are all ROOKIES !! Any of those acquisitions named Randy Moss Scott ?

Let's try to keep on track here please.


I must have missed the memo that you can't count rooks.

[gureski]

Here is why I can't hate what Thompson has done thus far by ignoring offense and concentrating on defense....


The rest of your post was terrific. But I disagree with the above.


Ignoring the offense?

He replace a 3rd round pick (Green) with a 2nd round pick (Jackson).

He drafted:

2 RB's
2 WR's
1 OT
1 TE
1 LB that he's converting to a TE

So drafting 7 players for the offense in a 7 round draft is ignoring the offense?

I'm referring to the impact moves Thompson has made that have improved the team right away. First round picks, throughout his tenure, have gone defense every year except Rodgers. Free Agent signings of starting calibur players have gone by far to defense. If you look at the units where Thompson has placed his chips, he has placed them on defense, more then offense.

On offense, off the top of my head, Thompson brought in Morency, drafted Jackson. At QB, Thompson picked up A.Rodgers in the draft. WR saw Murphy, Jennings, Jackson (this years pick who is a S.Sharpe clone) and he brought in K.Robinson. TE, nothing but a couple of late round picks. O-line....Thompson drafted Colledge and Mohl and Spitz last year. He also picked up a couple of younger development type guys.

Thompson also saw Green, Henderson, Martin, Whale, Rivera, Flanagan, Nall, Davenport, Fisher, and J.Walker out of G.B.. Not that any/all those weren't good or necessary moves....I'm just saying that this is what Thompson's move list looks like on offense as far as players sent packing and players brought in. In many of the above instances, the players taking over for the players leaving weren't as good.

Now, on defense...

Thompson brought in or drafted the following: N.Collins, A.J. Hawk, C.Woodson, R.Pickett, M.Manuel, B.Taylor, Harrell, M.Underwood was a draft pick, Poppinga was a Thompson pick in 2005, A.Hodge was a draft pick in 2006, W.Blackmon in 2006, and A.Rouse in 2007. The only FA signing this year was a CB, F.Walker.

Who did Thompson usher out of G.B. on defense that you could say mattered? D.Sharper? Not G.Jackson. N.Diggs? A.Carroll? Who was that third round pick Carroll got into a fight with? He got dumped too. Joey Thomas. What else did Thompson lose on defense that wasn't replaced with an immediate improvement? I'm remembering more as I go. ... C.Hunt was dumped. Who was the kid from Oregon that we just got rid of? He's gone.

The impact of the players picked up on defense is far greater then the players picked up on offense. Most of the offensive players acquired needed time to develop. Most of the defensive players were ready to start and were improvements the moment they took the field.

If you compare what was lost and signed on defense with what was lost and signed on offense you can't help but come to the conclusion that Thompson gave more to the defense thus far in his tenure then he has to the offense.

[FritzDontBlitz]

the thing that gets me about all of this is how there has been nothing but disinformation about the pack this entire offseason. at least brett was man enough to step up today and say he let his emotions get the best of him. as far as the trade rumor goes, i will file it away with the gazillion reports about a "done deal" to trade moss to the pack. apparently the predraft confusion stoked by all the trade rumors got the best of brett as well.

still, its interesting to see how brett favre can be such a polarizing figure, even among pack fans....

[Scott Campbell]

If you look at the units where Thompson has placed his chips, he has placed them on defense, more then offense.

I completely agree with this assessment and the rest of your post. My disagreement with your earlier statement of "ignored the offense" was strictly in the sense that it was too strong a statement. "Less emphasis" is more accurate than "completely ignored".

[Patler]

First round picks, throughout his tenure, have gone defense every year except Rodgers.

"Throughout his tenure" in that statement of course means twice. If he had drafted an offensive player this year I guess we could have said:

"First round picks, throughout his tenure, have gone offense every year except Hawk."

Then we wouldn't have had to have this debate becausee TT would obviously have been emphasizing the offense in the draft! :D Everyone knows the other rounds don't matter!

[MadtownPacker]

Gureski, I wish I had your writing skillz to express what Im thinking. Great posts and great points top to bottom.

And people thought I only cared about ripping Craig Nall....hmmmph..

First he blows some smoke up your ass. And now he's going to PM you asking your to write some articles.

:)Did you notice you have never got the smoke or the PM? :P

[Scott Campbell]

Gureski, I wish I had your writing skillz to express what Im thinking. Great posts and great points top to bottom.

And people thought I only cared about ripping Craig Nall....hmmmph..

First he blows some smoke up your ass. And now he's going to PM you asking your to write some articles.

:)Did you notice you have never got the smoke or the PM? :P

Then what the hell were you doing back there?

[b bulldog]

Gureski, your posts were very thoughtful and very detailed. Obviously, I'm not one of Brett's biggest fans but to say he doesn't relish all of this attention is a matter of opin ion on both of our accounts. I usually need to agree to disagree with the masses in here in regards to Brett but I'm OK with that and I even enjoy that. My assessment is that he is an average QB at this time who won't commit more than one year at a time and in the end, that lack of a committment hurt him, Brett and GW Bush have one thing in common at the moment, they are both lame ducks who are just putting in their time.

[Bretsky]

Obviously, I'm not one of Brett's biggest fans .


Gosh we never noticed


:lol: :wink:

[b bulldog]

Your on a roll today B :wink:

[packers11]

Obviously, I'm not one of Brett's biggest fans .


Gosh we never noticed


:lol: :wink:

Bulldog it makes me wonder... How old are you??? (If you dont mind me asking) If you are a young person, I can see why you don't love Favre that much... If you are an older person, you have seen Star / and a lot of great packer players...

For me... Being Late teens, I only remember the Brett Favre, therefor I appreciate him more than some other fans...

[Bretsky]

Obviously, I'm not one of Brett's biggest fans .


Gosh we never noticed


:lol: :wink:

Bulldog it makes me wonder... How old are you??? (If you dont mind me asking) If you are a young person, I can see why you don't love Favre that much... If you are an older person, you have seen Star / and a lot of great packer players...

For me... Being Late teens, I only remember the Brett Favre, therefor I appreciate him more than some other fans...


I'd guess early 30's. Not enough brutal suffering watching horrid Packer teams.

[b bulldog]

34 and I remember the late seventies and eighties. I thought Dickey threw the best pass around if he had five to seven seconds to throw the ball :lol: