Thompson wants Favre out?

[AtlPackFan]

Some of you in the past have professed the belief that Ted Thompson wanted to start anew with his players, that he was hoping Brett would retire or that he could find a way to get Brett out.

Assuming that at some point Brett DID ask for a trade, does this put that whole notion to rest? Because I would think if Thompson ever had a chance to move Favre without incurring too much of the rath of the Packer faithful, this would have been it. Favre asks to be traded, Thompson obliges, end of story. But, instead, he had McCarthy call Favre to diffuse the situation.

Not calling anyone out or trying to start an argument, just wanted to know what y'all thought.

[wist43]

I'm sure TT would love to be rid of Favre...

His hands are tied though... the backlash would be overwhelming - TT knows Favre has an almost mythical standing with Packer fans. TT is egotistical and rigid, but he's not dumb.

Favre is a Packer for life, and that's just the way it is... my hunch is that Favre is done after this year - and the 2 year run of "the Aaron Rodgers era" can begin.

Thence begins the 2 decade search for a QB of Favre's calibur.

[woodbuck27]

Some of you in the past have professed the belief that Ted Thompson wanted to start anew with his players, that he was hoping Brett would retire or that he could find a way to get Brett out.

Assuming that at some point Brett DID ask for a trade, does this put that whole notion to rest? Because I would think if Thompson ever had a chance to move Favre without incurring too much of the rath of the Packer faithful, this would have been it. Favre asks to be traded, Thompson obliges, end of story. But, instead, he had McCarthy call Favre to diffuse the situation.

Not calling anyone out or trying to start an argument, just wanted to know what y'all thought.

TT is using Brett Favre.

He can't trade Favre as we need a legitimate starting QB.

[PackerBlues]

Had Favre said that he wanted to be traded directly after last season, Yes, Thompson would have gladly have gotten rid of him (My Opinion). But since it took Thompsons normal lack of action in helping to improve the offense even marginally this year to finally piss Favre off enough to ask for a trade.........No, Ted knows damned well that to let Favre go under these circumstances would be suicide for his career. He is after all a freakin genius isnt he?

[Patler]

I'm sure TT would love to be rid of Favre...

His hands are tied though... the backlash would be overwhelming - TT knows Favre has an almost mythical standing with Packer fans. TT is egotistical and rigid, but he's not dumb.

Favre is a Packer for life, and that's just the way it is... my hunch is that Favre is done after this year - and the 2 year run of "the Aaron Rodgers era" can begin.

Thence begins the 2 decade search for a QB of Favre's calibur.

You can't possibly believe that? favre's mythical status is no greater than Montana's in SF, for example.

He had a golden opportunity! I can hear the announcement:

"Favre has asked to be traded. For ALL he has given this organization, we have reluctantly agreed to his wishes. Brett has earned the right to play his last few years (closer to his home, where he wants, etc. etc) We wish him all the best, and he will always be a GREEN BAY PACKER!"

[Scott Campbell]

(My Opinion)


Noob catching on.

[Scott Campbell]

I'm sure TT would love to be rid of Favre...

His hands are tied though... the backlash would be overwhelming - TT knows Favre has an almost mythical standing with Packer fans. TT is egotistical and rigid, but he's not dumb.

Favre is a Packer for life, and that's just the way it is... my hunch is that Favre is done after this year - and the 2 year run of "the Aaron Rodgers era" can begin.

Thence begins the 2 decade search for a QB of Favre's calibur.

You can't possibly believe that? favre's mythical status is no greater than Montana's in SF, for example.

He had a golden opportunity! I can hear the announcement:

"Favre has asked to be traded. For ALL he has given this organization, we have reluctantly agreed to his wishes. Brett has earned the right to play his last few years (closer to his home, where he wants, etc. etc) We wish him all the best, and he will always be a GREEN BAY PACKER!"


And most would praise Ted's decision to help Brett out.


Way to ruin a perfectly good conspiracy theory Patler.

[wist43]

It's all speculation of course... but, going back a few years, the Packers 4 best offensive players were: Favre, Green, Walker, and Wahle.

TT's cleaned house to the tune of 3 out of 4... Surprised Clifton and Tauscher haven't been axed yet. Clifton will probably be history this year or next though I expect.

Maybe he should just cut all the vets... then he could fill the whole roster with 7th rounders!!! :wink:

[pbmax]

As of this morning, 53% of the poll at JSOnline said the Pack should trade Favre. The backlash would be swift and mighty, but it might not be as well attended as you think.

Why must we insist that T2 wants Favre gone? Why is it T2 versus Favre, loser leaves town?

How about GM doesn't want to sacrifice like Sherman in longshot attempt to reach Super Bowl in 3 years. And Favre believes he has roughly three years left. Doesn't that explain everything?


I'm sure TT would love to be rid of Favre...

His hands are tied though... the backlash would be overwhelming - TT knows Favre has an almost mythical standing with Packer fans. TT is egotistical and rigid, but he's not dumb.

Favre is a Packer for life, and that's just the way it is... my hunch is that Favre is done after this year - and the 2 year run of "the Aaron Rodgers era" can begin.

Thence begins the 2 decade search for a QB of Favre's calibur.

[PackerBlues]

As of this morning, 53% of the poll at JSOnline said the Pack should trade Favre. The backlash would be swift and mighty, but it might not be as well attended as you think.

Why must we insist that T2 wants Favre gone? Why is it T2 versus Favre, loser leaves town?

How about GM doesn't want to sacrifice like Sherman in longshot attempt to reach Super Bowl in 3 years. And Favre believes he has roughly three years left. Doesn't that explain everything?


I'm sure TT would love to be rid of Favre...

His hands are tied though... the backlash would be overwhelming - TT knows Favre has an almost mythical standing with Packer fans. TT is egotistical and rigid, but he's not dumb.

Favre is a Packer for life, and that's just the way it is... my hunch is that Favre is done after this year - and the 2 year run of "the Aaron Rodgers era" can begin.

Thence begins the 2 decade search for a QB of Favre's calibur.

That poll is a wee bit misleading. The exact wording........

POLL: An angry Brett Favre asks the Packers to trade him. Should they do it?

If Brett Favre were actually still asking for a trade, then yes, Many Packer fans would support his wish, me included. Since he is not openly asking for a trade, no I would not want to see him traded. I would much rather see Thompson sent packing before Brett Favre.

[Merlin]

Thompson would never pull the trigger and trade Favre. His complacency with the status quo on offense for three seasons now is what is fanning all of the flames. When your sure fire first ballot HOF QB get's pissed off because you haven't done a damn thing to help the team score points, I think it's safe to say what TT's ultimate goal is: Favre retires. It isn't the other way around. TT can ill afford to be the guy that forced Favre out. However, it sure is looking that way now.

Remember: "We don't talk about that".

[Patler]

His complacency with the status quo on offense for three seasons now is what is fanning all of the flames.

Complaceny? Six new starters. More 1st day draft picks on offense then defense. Investing 5 draft picks in three years on wide receivers. Complacency?

[PackerBlues]

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d29/trickyblue/teamhowbuilt2.jpg


We have nothing on Offense. Favre, Driver, Jennings. anyone else is unproven.

[LL2]

If the Pack finish 9-7 or better this year TT will be considered a genius and Favre will be all smiles and all teary eyed at the end of the season and none of this talk will mean anything.

[Rastak]

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d29/trickyblue/teamhowbuilt2.jpg


We have nothing on Offense. Favre, Driver, Jennings. anyone else is unproven.



WOW, that's a cool chart.


edit: where did you get that? Do they have a similar thing for other teams?

[PackerBlues]

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d29/trickyblue/teamhowbuilt2.jpg


We have nothing on Offense. Favre, Driver, Jennings. anyone else is unproven.



WOW, that's a cool chart.


edit: where did you get that? Do they have a similar thing for other teams?



http://www.packers.com/team/how_built/


They also have a really nice team history section. I really wish some people in the forums would check it out and kinda help themselves to remember what this team has been through in the last ten years or so.

http://www.packers.com/history/birth_of_a_team_and_a_legend/#chapter12

[wist43]

His complacency with the status quo on offense for three seasons now is what is fanning all of the flames.

Complaceny? Six new starters. More 1st day draft picks on offense then defense. Investing 5 draft picks in three years on wide receivers. Complacency?

First off, how many of those WR's are difference makers??? Jennings is a nice player, but I hardly consider him a difference maker. Murphy is pumping gas, Rodgers is bagging groceries, Jones looks like a huge reach...

TT is nothing if not quantity over quality.

Secondly, the term "starter" is relative... two of those 6 starters wouldn't have even been necessary had TT massaged the cap enough to keep Wahle and Walker.

Will Colledge or Spitz ever be as good as Wahle??? I doubt it... will Jennings ever be as good as Walker??? Probably not.

As for the others, some turnover was necessary (Wells for Flanigan, Spitz for Rivera, Manuel for Roman, Hawk for Lenon). With the exception of Hawk, the Packers are worse at all of those positions. Granted everyone is looking at the upside of those players, they're young and we're all expecting improvement; but, I don't ever see Wells being as good as Flanigan in his prime, or Spitz ever being as good as Rivera... Manuel and Roman were both stopgaps, so they're a push.

Just b/c TT is turning over the roster, in and of itself, doesn't mean much... some of what he is doing, needed to be done, and he is being acknowledged for that; but, at the same time, his approach isn't likely to land us anywhere near the playoffs (winning the Central doesn't really count in my book - playing Sister Mary-Margarets Mauraders doesn't impress me much) for at least a few more years - that's certainly worthy of criticism.

[AtlPackFan]

OK, I am not understanding some of the logic. The way I see it , if Thompson wants to get rid of Favre, he has two choices. Favre retires, Thompson trades him. Obviously Favre ain't retiring therefore Thompson's only choice is trade.

So, if your TT and you want Favre gone, isn't this the perfect opportunity?! Favre asks, you reciprocate. And you can spin it...at least on the surface...that you are doing it for Favre. You want to give him another shot at a SB and you don't yet have all the pieces in place for GB to compete.
Instead, TT has M3 diffuse the situation? If you believe that TT wants Favre out then I don't understand why this isn't TT's golden opportunity?

Of course I guess if TT trades Farve and admits the team isn't competitive then he would have to admit he is rebuilding.... :lol:

[Green Bud Packer]

Will Colledge or Spitz ever be as good as Wahle??? .
they were better in their rookie years so my guess is yes they will be as good as wahle.

[Patler]

Will Colledge or Spitz ever be as good as Wahle??? .
they were better in their rookie years so my guess is yes they will be as good as wahle.

Very true, but in fairness to Wahle he was quite young as a rookie. Didn't turn 22 until the March after his rookie season. However, it was really his 4th season before he solidified a spot as a starter.

[Merlin]

OK, I am not understanding some of the logic. The way I see it , if Thompson wants to get rid of Favre, he has two choices. Favre retires, Thompson trades him. Obviously Favre ain't retiring therefore Thompson's only choice is trade.

So, if your TT and you want Favre gone, isn't this the perfect opportunity?! Favre asks, you reciprocate. And you can spin it...at least on the surface...that you are doing it for Favre. You want to give him another shot at a SB and you don't yet have all the pieces in place for GB to compete.
Instead, TT has M3 diffuse the situation? If you believe that TT wants Favre out then I don't understand why this isn't TT's golden opportunity?

Of course I guess if TT trades Favre and admits the team isn't competitive then he would have to admit he is rebuilding.... :lol:

That's the beauty of TT's plan. He won't trade Favre even if Favre continued to say "trade me". He has to make it appear that he wants him there. Nice to know you are finally seeing the light.

[mraynrand]

I didn't realize we have Jerry Babb on the squad. I feel a lot better about the upcoming season now.

[SudsMcBucky]

[quote="wist43"]
Secondly, the term "starter" is relative... two of those 6 starters wouldn't
As for the others, some turnover was necessary (Wells for Flanigan, Spitz for Rivera, Manuel for Roman, Hawk for Lenon). With the exception of Hawk, the Packers are worse at all of those positions. quote]

I was really hoping they would have made it work to keep Wahle, but seeing Rivera go didn't affect me. Did he even have 1 good year after he left? He's already on the cutting blocks, and was definitely not worth the big contract Dallas gave him. Spitz now > Rivera now (comparing Spitz now to Rivera in his prime is irrelavent).

[wist43]

I didn't want to resign Rivera... therein lies the point I was making in saying "necessary turnover".

As for comparing Spitz to Rivera in his prime; of course, is irrelavent... simply an observation, among several, that amounts to a depletion of talent.

I'm sure Spitz will mature into a decent NFL calibur G... Wahle on the other hand was a pro bowler. Big difference between guys like Colledge and Spitz, and Wahle.

[PackerBlues]

Considering as how Marco Rivera still ended up going to the 2005 Pro Bowl, I am guessing he still had some gas left in the tank. Just because we could not (according to Thompson) afford him, does not mean he was any less of a player.

Last I had heard though, prior to this coming season, Rivera has had a second back surgury at the age of 34 and rampant speculation was going around that he would be cut or retire.

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d29/trickyblue/favrebus.jpg

[HarveyWallbangers]

Rivera was just okay in 2005. I couldn't care less if he made the Pro Bowl or not. Players often make the Pro Bowl on name recognition--especially at OL. He was below average in 2006. Great player in his prime (and a great Packer) who the Packers got rid of at the right time. Wahle was still in his prime. Unfortunately, that roster bonus he was due was a ridiculous thing to throw in his contract, but teams that are always up against the cap often times have to do crazy shit like that just to get a guy resigned for an extra year or two.

[pbmax]

Considering we are talking about the current version of the Packers, how would LG look today with a twice injured (during his current contract) and less effective Wahle be today?

And we'll never know if any of the younger players are any good unless they play.

Pick your poison. Older, more expensive and injured or cheap, unproven and young.

Being close to three years removed from the Wahle/Sharper/Rivera purge, they would have had to go younger by now or look like the Chiefs. As for the previous three years, it all depends on whether you think someone could have rebuilt with veterans on the fly to challenge for a Super Bowl.

Seeing the Playoff Packers get waxed by Minnesota, Atlanta and the Rams and lose a game they could have won in Philly, my feeling is that the decine would have continued.


First off, how many of those WR's are difference makers??? Jennings is a nice player, but I hardly consider him a difference maker. Murphy is pumping gas, Rodgers is bagging groceries, Jones looks like a huge reach...

...Will Colledge or Spitz ever be as good as Wahle??? I doubt it... will Jennings ever be as good as Walker??? Probably not.

[pbmax]

What position does the girl play? What's the cap number? Phone number?


Considering as how Marco Rivera still ended up going to the 2005 Pro Bowl, I am guessing he still had some gas left in the tank. Just because we could not (according to Thompson) afford him, does not mean he was any less of a player.

Last I had heard though, prior to this coming season, Rivera has had a second back surgury at the age of 34 and rampant speculation was going around that he would be cut or retire.

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d29/trickyblue/favrebus.jpg

[Chester Marcol]

I can't imagine TT ever wanted Favre gone. If he really is trying to win now(words), you need an experienced QB. However, if you are rebuilding(actions), wouldn't that project go a lot smoother with an experienced QB still able to play at a high level? That has been my feeling on how TT views Favre as of lately. I think a veteran QB can make this rebuilding go smoother and his confidence won't be shattered. Look what happened when Rodgers was thrown in. He got beat up and broke a hoof. How many more games of that before he is left without confidence and ends up like numorous Browns and Bengals QB's of the past.

So, once we are 2-3 years down the road and Favre walks away, don't you think, if TT's build threw the draft plan works, that a QB will have a better chance to step in and be more successful with the growing pains behind the team?

Favre is wanted, but the bigger question for TT is why is he wanted.

[cheesner]

I'm sure TT would love to be rid of Favre...

His hands are tied though... the backlash would be overwhelming - TT knows Favre has an almost mythical standing with Packer fans. TT is egotistical and rigid, but he's not dumb.

Favre is a Packer for life, and that's just the way it is... my hunch is that Favre is done after this year - and the 2 year run of "the Aaron Rodgers era" can begin.

Thence begins the 2 decade search for a QB of Favre's calibur.
One thing we all know about TT - he is all about pleasing the fans. It exactly why he drafted fan favorite DT Harrell this year, to appease the clamoring fans. :roll:

Of the best offensive players a few years ago someone listed: Favre, Green, Driver, and Wahle - they all had one thing in common. They weren't very good when their first couple of years in the league.

Favre was traded after his rookie year. When he became a FA he recieved 1 offer from the Saints. It wasn't much so he resigned with the Packers.

Green was traded after his 2nd season.

Driver languished on the bench for 3-4 seasons.

Wahle was a miserable failure at left tackle.

Packers currently have the youngest roster in the NFL, give these guys a chance to develop. As far as the WIN NOW mentality, under TT, Favre has been a 'maybe I will retire' mode. The first 2 years under TT, Favre waited till after the draft to decide to play another year. I wonder what TT drafts and FA acquisitions would look like if Favre had told TT he would play for 3 more years when he was first hired.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Favre was traded after his rookie year. When he became a FA he recieved 1 offer from the Saints. It wasn't much so he resigned with the Packers.

While I agree with your general sentiment, I don't remember it going down like this. I believe Favre was a restricted FA, and most teams assumed Green Bay would match any offer. New Orleans was looking into signing him to a BIG contract for the time. I believe it was something like $4M/year--which was a ton of money at that time for a guy who was coming off an ordinary season in 1993. The Packers and Favre ended up working it out.

[cheesner]

Favre was traded after his rookie year. When he became a FA he recieved 1 offer from the Saints. It wasn't much so he resigned with the Packers.

While I agree with your general sentiment, I don't remember it going down like this. I believe Favre was a restricted FA, and most teams assumed Green Bay would match any offer. New Orleans was looking into signing him to a BIG contract for the time. I believe it was something like $4M/year--which was a ton of money at that time for a guy who was coming off an ordinary season in 1993. The Packers and Favre ended up working it out.
Could be.

IIRC Favre visited a bunch of teams, but only one actually tried to sign him. My feeling at the time was there was not very much interest in signing him. I hate to admit this now, but I was hoping he would go. He was just too wild, I didn't think he would play within a system enough to succeed.

[woodbuck27]

I'm sure TT would love to be rid of Favre...

His hands are tied though... the backlash would be overwhelming - TT knows Favre has an almost mythical standing with Packer fans. TT is egotistical and rigid, but he's not dumb.

Favre is a Packer for life, and that's just the way it is... my hunch is that Favre is done after this year - and the 2 year run of "the Aaron Rodgers era" can begin.

Thence begins the 2 decade search for a QB of Favre's calibur.

You can't possibly believe that? favre's mythical status is no greater than Montana's in SF, for example.

He had a golden opportunity! I can hear the announcement:

"Favre has asked to be traded. For ALL he has given this organization, we have reluctantly agreed to his wishes. Brett has earned the right to play his last few years (closer to his home, where he wants, etc. etc) We wish him all the best, and he will always be a GREEN BAY PACKER!"

Itr seems to me that you believe that before long we'll read the actual headlines on Brett Favre being traded. Uhhh ?

[woodbuck27]

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d29/trickyblue/teamhowbuilt2.jpg


We have nothing on Offense. Favre, Driver, Jennings. anyone else is unproven.

Patler will pat TT's back for adding Colledge,Spitz and Moll.

After his joke of an attempt to shore up our OL in 2004's off season. Just what else could he do? (re-calling his attitude towords FA's).

Ted Thompson is just plain stiff (rigid) as a GM and he's failing.

The proof of that is 12-20 and worse to come; and the split we see in takes of it all among Packer fans.

The realist Packer fan takes the approach of. . . ''well. . . may as well rollover and accept Ted Thompson as he's the show.''

The Brett Favre supporters support win now baby. That isn't going to happen in 2007 with Brett Favre unless he becomes Superman. :)

If Ted Thompson trades Brett Favre then what does he have after that but Ted Thompson?

That's not working and it won't work. He's (again) too rigid.

If Ted Thompson trades Favre then all those Favre fans will tear at his ass till he's gone. Favre has officially said that he wants to retire a Packer.To even insinuate that he will be traded is nonsence.

Ted Thompson doesn't even have to gonads and smart enough to avoid that noose. :)

[HarveyWallbangers]

I hate to admit this now, but I was hoping he would go. He was just too wild, I didn't think he would play within a system enough to succeed.

At least, you are honest. You weren't the only one who felt that way. I defended Favre and Sharper after their first couple of years--when a lot of people wanted them shipped out.

[4and12to12and4]

[quote=Merlin] His complacency with the status quo on offense for three seasons now is what is fanning all of the flames.

Complaceny? Six new starters. More 1st day draft picks on offense then defense. Investing 5 draft picks in three years on wide receivers. Complacency?


First off, how many of those WR's are difference makers??? Jennings is a nice player, but I hardly consider him a difference maker. Murphy is pumping gas, Rodgers is bagging groceries, Jones looks like a huge reach...

This statements has more holes in it than swiss cheese (wisconsin metaphor :oops: ). Jennings was in line for a possible rookie of the year candidate until his injury. He MAY be a GREAT player. You can't say that you know he won't be. Everyone was googoo about him after preseason and the beginning of the season until his injury, because of his great hands and ability to seperate and YAC. Murphy is not TT's fault, he looked like a possible probowler. He had all the qualities and talents he needed to be an EXCELLENT receiver. How can you blame TT for his outcome? Rodgers is still just Brett's backup, but that means nothing. Remember Matt Hasselback? He almost won a superbowl AFTER backing up Favre for half a career. So, the jury's still out on Mr. Aaron. How can you even make a judgement on Jones as a HUGE reach? Because he didn't go to USC? Would you have wanted us to waste a 1st round pick on a third round receiver (which is just about what the talent level was left at NO. 16.).


TT is nothing if not quantity over quality.

You have a better chance of getting quality in the "lottery" that is the NFL Draft when you have MORE picks. TT understands that there is almost no SURE great player out of college, and so he plays the odds game, and that is a GOOD thing. He's a smart GM for doing that. I challenge you to come up with the top 50 players in the NFL right now and then go check what school they came from and what round they were picked, and I would bet that over 75% we're 2nd round or lower, 50% were 4th round or lower, and you probably couldn't pronounce one fourth of the schools, or know what state they're in.


Secondly, the term "starter" is relative... two of those 6 starters wouldn't have even been necessary had TT massaged the cap enough to keep Wahle and Walker.

Keeping Wahle is debatable, even though he would've cost a fortune, but the Walker situation is a difficult one to blame TT for. The injury screwed that entire thing up, and give me a break, what player that has his agent DOESN'T give their team a splitting headache.


Will Colledge or Spitz ever be as good as Wahle??? I doubt it... will Jennings ever be as good as Walker??? Probably not.

Thus you're rat name. Very accurate.


As for the others, some turnover was necessary (Wells for Flanigan, Spitz for Rivera, Manuel for Roman, Hawk for Lenon). With the exception of Hawk, the Packers are worse at all of those positions. Granted everyone is looking at the upside of those players, they're young and we're all expecting improvement; but, I don't ever see Wells being as good as Flanigan in his prime, or Spitz ever being as good as Rivera... Manuel and Roman were both stopgaps, so they're a push.


You are nuts if you think that Roman is even close to as good as Manuel. Understand something, Manuel was learning a new scheme and isn't the fastest guy out there, thus his blowing some plays this year, but almost NOONE here gives him the credit he deserves for his aggressive play against the run, and his great hard tackling ability on those plays. If you really paid attention to last year's games, you'd know that he filled many a gap on running plays and was excellent in that area, making many tackles in OTHERS responsibility areas. He's better than most here think, and with a year's experience in our defense, if healthy, I think he will become a much better player and leader out there this year.


Just b/c TT is turning over the roster, in and of itself, doesn't mean much... some of what he is doing, needed to be done, and he is being acknowledged for that; but, at the same time, his approach isn't likely to land us anywhere near the playoffs (winning the Central doesn't really count in my book - playing Sister Mary-Margarets Mauraders doesn't impress me much) for at least a few more years - that's certainly worthy of criticism.

You have the right to you're opinion, but I think this team is MUCH improved defensively, which is outstanding considering the amount of youth we have, and as far as the offense goes, I agree we need a good tight end to help Favre, and TT has tried with Lee and Martin, who seemed to have the talent, but just haven't gotten it together (but, Brett has to throw it to them too). As far as receiver goes, there are going to be many folks here eating crow when this talented young group we currently have grow up this year and really contribute and help Driver. TT KNOWS that the Jennings, and the Holidays, and the Ruvells, are just as if not more talented than any of the receivers coming out of the draft after Calvin, AND they are experienced a year now in the system.

So, that's my defense to all of your negativity. But, one last thing. You're idea that TT is an egomaniac and wants only HIS guys is not only ridiculous, it's laughable. He wants to win, PERIOD. Give the guy a chance. Like someone else said earlier, it's not been easy for him in terms of QB, when his current QB hasn't given him any guarantees of being there for him in future years. He has been contemplating retirement since TT got here. That is an issue that has been hard for TT do deal with, so don't blame TT for problems caused by that situation. OK, my rant is over.

[Merlin]

This statements has more holes in it than swiss cheese (wisconsin metaphor :oops: ). Jennings was in line for a possible rookie of the year candidate until his injury. He MAY be a GREAT player. You can't say that you know he won't be. Everyone was googoo about him after preseason and the beginning of the season until his injury, because of his great hands and ability to seperate and YAC. Murphy is not TT's fault, he looked like a possible probowler. He had all the qualities and talents he needed to be an EXCELLENT receiver. How can you blame TT for his outcome? Rodgers is still just Brett's backup, but that means nothing. Remember Matt Hasselback? He almost won a superbowl AFTER backing up Favre for half a career. So, the jury's still out on Mr. Aaron. How can you even make a judgement on Jones as a HUGE reach? Because he didn't go to USC? Would you have wanted us to waste a 1st round pick on a third round receiver (which is just about what the talent level was left at NO. 16.).

Talk about swiss cheese! Jennings is unproven, Rodgers is no Hasselbeck and if you actually paid attention you would see how much of a bust Rodgers is. With no veteran leadership, this team is doomed to fail until the rookies make the mistakes themselves and cost us games. THAT is the reality. We took our lumps last year with 3T's rookie team learning. We are doomed to that again. Then the year after AGAIN. You aren't getting it.



You have a better chance of getting quality in the "lottery" that is the NFL Draft when you have MORE picks. TT understands that there is almost no SURE great player out of college, and so he plays the odds game, and that is a GOOD thing. He's a smart GM for doing that. I challenge you to come up with the top 50 players in the NFL right now and then go check what school they came from and what round they were picked, and I would bet that over 75% we're 2nd round or lower, 50% were 4th round or lower, and you probably couldn't pronounce one fourth of the schools, or know what state they're in.

Playing the odds? You mean by taking an INJURED player in the first round? Sure, more picks the better your odds. Problem is they all seem to make the team! And at what cost? Someone find out how many of the draft picks that TT has picked up that have made the roster. Then compare the number of FA pickups that have made the roster. OR better yet, were at least signed to the practice squad and went to NFLE. You may be surprised to find out it's a hell of a lot of them. We have the youngest team in the NFL for a reason. Way to GAMBLE the season. You will never convince me that there were no FA's at the positions we kept rookies on the roster for that wouldn't have contributed to the team the day we signed them.



Keeping Wahle is debatable, even though he would've cost a fortune, but the Walker situation is a difficult one to blame TT for. The injury screwed that entire thing up, and give me a break, what player that has his agent DOESN'T give their team a splitting headache.

3T could have kept either Whale or Rivera. He wouldn't spend the money on them, it's that simple. They both did well for themselves and I am happy for them but that doesn't give 3T a pass on letting go two pro bowl guards and replacing them with NFLE & rookies. Walker's injury didn't screw anything up. 3T's ego and "his team" philosophy cost us Walker. I don't like how Walker handled himself and he has some blame in this but once again, 3T doesn't get let off the hook for letting a pro bowl WR leave and then replacing him with a rookie.



You are nuts if you think that Roman is even close to as good as Manuel. Understand something, Manuel was learning a new scheme and isn't the fastest guy out there, thus his blowing some plays this year, but almost NOONE here gives him the credit he deserves for his aggressive play against the run, and his great hard tackling ability on those plays. If you really paid attention to last year's games, you'd know that he filled many a gap on running plays and was excellent in that area, making many tackles in OTHERS responsibility areas. He's better than most here think, and with a year's experience in our defense, if healthy, I think he will become a much better player and leader out there this year.

Roman did an adequate job here. Manual was NOT an upgrade. He was a 3T player in Seattle. The second 3T could talk to the guy he was signed to a contract. 3T had a woody for Manual, that is something no one can refute. He went after him very aggressively, more then any other player since he took over. Manual didn't start in Seattle for a reason: A well respected coach didn't think he was good enough to start. The guy had what? A few good games in Seattle? Don't hand me this "learning a new scheme" crap. If you didn't give Roman a pass like that for the different schemes he had to learn while in Green Bay, don't be a hypocrite.



You have the right to you're opinion, but I think this team is MUCH improved defensively, which is outstanding considering the amount of youth we have, and as far as the offense goes, I agree we need a good tight end to help Favre, and TT has tried with Lee and Martin, who seemed to have the talent, but just haven't gotten it together (but, Brett has to throw it to them too). As far as receiver goes, there are going to be many folks here eating crow when this talented young group we currently have grow up this year and really contribute and help Driver. TT KNOWS that the Jennings, and the Holidays, and the Ruvells, are just as if not more talented than any of the receivers coming out of the draft after Calvin, AND they are experienced a year now in the system.

So, that's my defense to all of your negativity. But, one last thing. You're idea that TT is an egomaniac and wants only HIS guys is not only ridiculous, it's laughable. He wants to win, PERIOD. Give the guy a chance. Like someone else said earlier, it's not been easy for him in terms of QB, when his current QB hasn't given him any guarantees of being there for him in future years. He has been contemplating retirement since TT got here. That is an issue that has been hard for TT do deal with, so don't blame TT for problems caused by that situation. OK, my rant is over.

First of all, you are right, we are all entitled to our opinion. Secondly, 3T is an egomaniac. He does want only HIS guys. In case you haven't noticed, he hasn't kept too many players around from the previous GM. The only ones he has are either pro-bowlers or potential pro-bowlers. AND he has even let a bunch of those leave. The only reason Favre contemplates retirement is because 3T doesn't do shit to help out the side of the ball that scores. At this point in his career, Favre is still better then most of the QB's in the NFL. Although Favre should not dictate the direction of the team and personnel moves, when the person that is supposed to be putting a competitive team on the field forgets that he has a pro-bowl QB, one of the best ever, and keeps throwing rookies at him and expects him to make miracles happen, how the hell would that make you feel? Youth and warm fuzzies only go so far when you aren't winning games. It's no secret that WR's perform better under Favre then they would otherwise with Ferguson as the exception. But when Favre is running for his life with the offense in maximum protection and the WR makes the wrong read, it gets a little old.