Michael Vick

[Joemailman]

Investigator: Witnesses can tie Vick to dog fights


The lead investigator in the dog-fighting investigation at a home that was owned by Michael Vick says there may be evidence that can directly tie him to fights at the property.

Kathy Strouse, Animal Control coordinator for the City of Chesapeake, says there may be a videotape showing Vick at dogfights and that she has talked with individuals who can "put Vick on the property" during matches in an interview with Yahoo.com.

Vick has said that he rarely visited the house and that relatives living there were responsible for any misdeeds. He put the house up for sale last week and it is currently under contract.

Strouse also said she is "very confident" authorities will link Vick directly to the dog fighting and called out the prosecutor for not being more aggressive. "He was at the home and saw the equipment that we seized. When we were there, he said he had enough right there to issue an indictment."

The Falcons say they can't comment on the specifics of the dog-fighting case until officials in Virginia reach a decision on whether to file charges. The prosecutor handling the case and the sheriff who oversaw the raid have not responded to repeated requests for interviews.

Vick's cousin, who lived at the home, was the target of a drug case that led authorities to search the property. Investigators reported finding dozens of dogs - some of them injured and malnourished - along with items associated with organized fighting, such as treadmills for training, jaw-prying sticks, veterinary drugs commonly used to treat wounds and blood-soaked carpeting.


Whoever is Atlanta's backup better be ready to play. That Schaub trade is looking worse every day.

[Scott Campbell]

He belongs in jail if this is true.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Vick gets a free pass with a lot of media members (although that is starting to turn)--while Brett Favre gets ripped by most of the media for comments that he makes.

[mmmdk]

Vick the prick.

[Patler]

Favre could end up in Atlanta yet! (Excuse me while I run for cover!)
:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

[mmmdk]

Favre could end up in Atlanta yet! (Excuse me while I run for cover!)
:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

I had the same thought but dared not utter it.

[Joemailman]

Favre could end up in Atlanta yet! (Excuse me while I run for cover!)
:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

Too Late!

http://z.about.com/d/civilliberty/1/0/J/1/-/-/firingsquad500.jpg

[PackerBlues]

To me, Vick was always way over-rated and more of a product of the NFL hype/spin machine.

Tony Stewart made comments recently about Nascar "fixing" races. As much as you hate the thought, you also have to admit that his "theory" was plausible.
I sat through the playoff game against Atlanta a few years back, and I had the same thoughts going through my head about the NFL at the time I was watching that game. I hate saying this, cause I know how bad it sounds, but.....watching that game, I saw some calls and non-calls by the officials that had me furious. At the start of the game, I had no doubt that the Packers would win. A few questionable calls later, and I am thinking....the NFL is trying to keep it a close game to make it more interesting. A few questionable calls later, and the Packers are playing "catch-up", and we all know how that ended.

In short, I hate Vick. :twisted:

[Patler]

Favre could end up in Atlanta yet! (Excuse me while I run for cover!)
:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

Too Late!

http://z.about.com/d/civilliberty/1/0/J/1/-/-/firingsquad500.jpg


Man, you guys are fast!

[pbmax]

Harvey, Favre had the same free pass for many years. All things must change.

He used to excused for everything, now everyone gets bent out of shape over enerything.


Vick gets a free pass with a lot of media members (although that is starting to turn)--while Brett Favre gets ripped by most of the media for comments that he makes.

[pbmax]

I don't admit that either theory is plausible. And while I know only the basics of Stewart's charge, I do remember the game.

And Vick made the Packer defense look stupid. And it wasn't the officiating.

On the other hand, the Packer O was so decimated by injuries that, had they been healthy, it would have been a much closer game.


To me, Vick was always way over-rated and more of a product of the NFL hype/spin machine.

Tony Stewart made comments recently about Nascar "fixing" races. As much as you hate the thought, you also have to admit that his "theory" was plausible.
I sat through the playoff game against Atlanta a few years back, and I had the same thoughts going through my head about the NFL at the time I was watching that game. I hate saying this, cause I know how bad it sounds, but.....watching that game, I saw some calls and non-calls by the officials that had me furious. At the start of the game, I had no doubt that the Packers would win. A few questionable calls later, and I am thinking....the NFL is trying to keep it a close game to make it more interesting. A few questionable calls later, and the Packers are playing "catch-up", and we all know how that ended.

In short, I hate Vick. :twisted:

[MadtownPacker]

I don't admit that either theory is plausible. And while I know only the basics of Stewart's charge, I do remember the game.

And Vick made the Packer defense look stupid. And it wasn't the officiating.

On the other hand, the Packer O was so decimated by injuries that, had they been healthy, it would have been a much closer game.OK now I have to rip into you for giving that piece of crap any credit.

If the O had anyone left and that punt that hit the ATL player in the back of the head been challenged I think it would have been a Pack W. Vick wasnt unstoppable that day, he just got alot of chances cuz the offense couldnt do anything due to it being down to just Favre and a rookie javon "traitor" walker.

[Patler]

Mad;

What are your feelings about Walker? Come on now, don't hold back! :D

[mraynrand]

If I could be jailed for 6 months for turtle fighting, Vick should get life

http://www.maniacworld.com/turtle-vs-turtle-part-1.jpg

http://www.maniacworld.com/turtle-vs-turtle-part-1.html

[Fritz]

I don't admit that either theory is plausible. And while I know only the basics of Stewart's charge, I do remember the game.

And Vick made the Packer defense look stupid. And it wasn't the officiating.

On the other hand, the Packer O was so decimated by injuries that, had they been healthy, it would have been a much closer game.


To me, Vick was always way over-rated and more of a product of the NFL hype/spin machine.

Tony Stewart made comments recently about Nascar "fixing" races. As much as you hate the thought, you also have to admit that his "theory" was plausible.
I sat through the playoff game against Atlanta a few years back, and I had the same thoughts going through my head about the NFL at the time I was watching that game. I hate saying this, cause I know how bad it sounds, but.....watching that game, I saw some calls and non-calls by the officials that had me furious. At the start of the game, I had no doubt that the Packers would win. A few questionable calls later, and I am thinking....the NFL is trying to keep it a close game to make it more interesting. A few questionable calls later, and the Packers are playing "catch-up", and we all know how that ended.

In short, I hate Vick. :twisted:


The boldfaced line above reflects my major memory of that game. The defense looked utterly lost and - dare I say it - defenseless. And after Driver got hurt - again - in that game, the Packers were taking volunteers from the stands to play wide receiver, I think.

Ugliness.

[cpk1994]

I don't admit that either theory is plausible. And while I know only the basics of Stewart's charge, I do remember the game.

And Vick made the Packer defense look stupid. And it wasn't the officiating.

On the other hand, the Packer O was so decimated by injuries that, had they been healthy, it would have been a much closer game.OK now I have to rip into you for giving that piece of crap any credit.

If the O had anyone left and that punt that hit the ATL player in the back of the head been challenged I think it would have been a Pack W. Vick wasnt unstoppable that day, he just got alot of chances cuz the offense couldnt do anything due to it being down to just Favre and a rookie javon "traitor" walker.

That punt that wasn't challanged was my biggest complaint about Sherman. Not only didn't he challenge it, instead of immediately taking blame for it he tried to whine and blame the officials for it. ONly after the head official fired back and said Sherman was informed he could challenge it did SHerman finally admit he made a mistake - and that was 4 days later. I wanted Sherman fired from that day on.

[mraynrand]

The boldfaced line above reflects my major memory of that game. The defense looked utterly lost and - dare I say it - defenseless. And after Driver got hurt - again - in that game, the Packers were taking volunteers from the stands to play wide receiver, I think.

Ugliness.

With the punt/block TD, that leave the D responsible for 20 points, at leat 7 of which were given up on a very short field.

The Packers were without Green, Davenport, Glenn, Clifton, Tauscher, Flanagan (effectively lost at center, since he moved to LT, leaving the hapless Winters at C), Driver, Johnson, Sharper. There may be more guys that I've forgotten. I think Reynolds was injured as well (not a big loss). Favre was still playing on a bum knee, etc.

Anyone who thinks that the Packers were a better team than Atlanta at the time of that wildcard game, is out of their tree.

[Freak Out]

The boldfaced line above reflects my major memory of that game. The defense looked utterly lost and - dare I say it - defenseless. And after Driver got hurt - again - in that game, the Packers were taking volunteers from the stands to play wide receiver, I think.

Ugliness.

With the punt/block TD, that leave the D responsible for 20 points, at leat 7 of which were given up on a very short field.

The Packers were without Green, Davenport, Glenn, Clifton, Tauscher, Flanagan (effectively lost at center, since he moved to LT, leaving the hapless Winters at C), Driver, Johnson, Sharper. There may be more guys that I've forgotten. I think Reynolds was injured as well (not a big loss). Favre was still playing on a bum knee, etc.

Anyone who thinks that the Packers were a better team than Atlanta at the time of that wildcard game, is out of their tree.

That ATL game is just best left to die......so many things went wrong. I will never forget KGB letting Vick go about 20 yards behind the line of scrimmage on 3rd and long.

[GrnBay007]

The whole idea of dog fights is so sick! I really don't get it. Is it the gambling or the brutality of it all that interests people? I mean, there are so many other avenues with which to gamble, it has to be the violence/blood/brutality these sicko's crave. Has anyone ever seen one? Why do people do this?

[woodbuck27]

Favre could end up in Atlanta yet! (Excuse me while I run for cover!)
:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

Be very careful of what you might be wishing for. :)

[GrnBay007]

Vick's Name First Came Up Following a Texas Murder
Posted Jun 10th 2007 1:10PM by Dan Benton
Filed under: Falcons, NFL Gossip, NFL Rumors, Atlanta, NFL Police Blotter

There has been so much going on surrounding Michael Vick and the alleged dog fighting allegations that the whole story is just jumbled at this point. With new information coming out daily, no one has had a chance to really grasp the significance of what's going on or how it even began.

It was assumed that Vick's alleged connections to the underground dog fighting world began when police raided his Virginia house looking for drugs and discovered nearly 70 neglected canines. Apparently that's not the case at all and feds had heard about Vick's connection to dog fighting long before that.

Back in August of last year, the murder of Thomas Weigner ended up opening a door to the dog fighting world and Michael Vick's name promptly came up.


"Ohhhh, yes," said Liberty County sheriff's Capt. Chip Fairchild. "When we were in Dayton, they mentioned it there. In Atlanta and Pittsburgh, too. They all knew about Michael Vick being into it and sinking big dollars into it. We kept hearing that over and over. That wasn't a trail we needed to go down, because there was no indication that he had ever been here or knew our guy (Weigner). But our guy certainly knew people who knew Michael Vick."

As each day passes, Vick's connection and association with this brutal world get deeper and more sophisticated. There is no telling how bad it's going to look a year or so from now. Maybe by this time next year we'll be laughing about it, wondering how police could get it so wrong. Or perhaps we'll be looking back on it wondering how the dog fighting kingpin got away with it for so long.

[MJZiggy]

So what's the alleged connection between Vick and this murder? Are they suggesting he had something to do with it? If the murder happened last August and Vick had some sort of connection to it, why is it only now that the story is coming out? And were the canines neglected or not, because I've read other stories that say they were not neglected; that a fighting dog is too valuable to neglect it and weaken its chances in the pit. And if there was no indication that he was ever in Liberty County or knew the murder victim, then what is the point of posting an article with the word "murder" in the headline?

I think I'm done now.

[GrnBay007]

I didn't find the article confusing at all.

Perhaps you should try reading it. :wink:

[packinpatland]

Vick's Name First Came Up Following a Texas Murder
Posted Jun 10th 2007 1:10PM by Dan Benton
Filed under: Falcons, NFL Gossip, NFL Rumors, Atlanta, NFL Police Blotter

There has been so much going on surrounding Michael Vick and the alleged dog fighting allegations that the whole story is just jumbled at this point. With new information coming out daily, no one has had a chance to really grasp the significance of what's going on or how it even began.

It was assumed that Vick's alleged connections to the underground dog fighting world began when police raided his Virginia house looking for drugs and discovered nearly 70 neglected canines. Apparently that's not the case at all and feds had heard about Vick's connection to dog fighting long before that.
Back in August of last year, the murder of Thomas Weigner ended up opening a door to the dog fighting world and Michael Vick's name promptly came up.

"Ohhhh, yes," said Liberty County sheriff's Capt. Chip Fairchild. "When we were in Dayton, they mentioned it there. In Atlanta and Pittsburgh, too. They all knew about Michael Vick being into it and sinking big dollars into it. We kept hearing that over and over. That wasn't a trail we needed to go down, because there was no indication that he had ever been here or knew our guy (Weigner). But our guy certainly knew people who knew Michael Vick."

As each day passes, Vick's connection and association with this brutal world get deeper and more sophisticated. There is no telling how bad it's going to look a year or so from now. Maybe by this time next year we'll be laughing about it, wondering how police could get it so wrong. Or perhaps we'll be looking back on it wondering how the dog fighting kingpin got away with it for so long.
***********


I found this whole thing confusing. Who wrote it?

[Merlin]

It isn't written very well but the inferences are there. Vick is a piece of shit, always has been always will. The media talks about Favre and all of the retirement crap. Here their golden boy is in deep shit with the law and they will play it out like we should feel sorry for him and that he is being persecuted.

[pbmax]

It doesn't seem to be that confusing. Michael Vick's postion, publicly, has been that he let family and friends handle the Virginia property and never or rarely visited. And he isn't involved in any dog fighting there, or anywhere else.

On its face, that claim seems far fetched. While there was a member of this board who opined that plenty of millionaires buy estates that they never set foot in again, it seems illogical and unlikely that you would turn over the property to people who you don't know intimately or keep an eye on. So Vick has positioned himself as completely divorced from the events in Virginia. From the beginning, however, there have been reports, rumors and innuendo that Vick was BOTH present in Virginia regularly and was involved in dog-fighting.

So a reporter is looking for confirmation one way or another. You can either convince the sherrif or FBI to include you in the investigation in Virginia OR you can tie Vick to dog fighting from sources outside the Viginia investigation. The latter is easier and probably more fertile in many cases.

The reporter looks for people with direct experience with the world of dog fighting. That led on ESPN reporter to that source who last week said he knew that Vick regularly visted fights and bet large sums of money. Now, he is just s guy, anonymous so far, who is also involved in dog fighting. So he's not enough. He may have an axe to grind or a deal to make. Or a book to write.

Another source is law enforcement who have picked up, investigated or dealt with people in dog fighting. Two advantages here: law enforcement usually more trustworthy than dog-fighting participant, and much of the material of their involvement is a matter of public record. This gives us the Liberty County Sheriff who says three things: 1) He investigated a murder from August last year, 2) During the investigation, they found themselves dealing with people and events involved with dog-fighting., even though they were investigating a murder 3) Vick's name came up, and his name came up in three separate cities from, presumably, multiple sources.

So police, during questioning of people who were at events or knew key participants, were taking names that they may want to talk to about the murder. On that list, three separate times, is Vick. They don't wish to talk to Vick, because while he is involved in the dog fighting world, he apparently has no connection to the murder.

This is not evidence that will win you a conviction in Virginia. However, it damages the credibility of Vick's claim that he isn't involved in dog fighting. Eventually, we may realize that all these stories are based upon the same urban legend, like the Keyser Soze of the dog fighting world. But if the people that investigators were talking to had accounts that were additonal events, rather than a retelling of the same story, then Vick is likely lying.

Nothing is proven, much suspected. But this is how you need to proceed to find out details if the primary participants don't want to talk. This report, while the last paragraph is a bit breathless, is just one piece of a puzzle.

[MJZiggy]

PB, maybe you should have written the article. I did not find it confusing at all. I was merely pointing out that the reporter who did write the piece threw out a LOT of innuendo (specifically the headline that MUST include the word "murder," right?). It also includes the little tidbit about neglected dogs. He's being sensationalist. Especially since it wasn't until the middle of paragraph 4 that he actually writes that Vick had nothing to do with the murder in the headline. I would think that would be an important enough tidbit to include in the opening of the story. Or maybe I hold these people to too lofty of expectations.

[packinpatland]

"Or maybe I hold these people to too lofty of expectations."


Can't.

[PackerBlues]

How many people around the area of that property have the money to take the kind of bets that Vick has been "seen" making? What kind of people have that kind of money to throw around? The fact that Vick is not in jail awaiting trial right now means one of two things to me.

1) The Local District Attorney is biding his time, trying to make sure he has more than enough evidence to get a conviction. He is following up leads, and looking for credible witnesses, and anything solid that cannot be called speculation.

2) Its just as likely that members of the local government attended the dog fights and took part in the betting, and at this very moment, bribes are being offered, and pockets are being lined. If allegations of Vicks dog fights and betting were heard in three different cities, that just adds that many more people wanting to cover their asses.

Personally, I dont see anything coming out of this unless the federal government is brought in. I believe that there wouldl be bigger names than Vicks brought up if they ever got serious about this "investigation".

I had been stationed in Norfolk Virginia back in 1994 when I had first joined the Navy. The whole dog fighting thing does not suprise me at all. I travelled all over that area in the time that I was stationed there, and the people to me, kind of seemed to be a little bit behind the rest of the country in a lot of ways. I remember going into a bar one night with a good friend of mine who happened to be black. Even though their were at least 10 guys sitting at the bar drinking, the bar tender told us that they were closed and that we had to leave. It was far from bar time, They simply did not want to serve a black man. I have a god awefull temper, but my friend said not to worry about it and we were about to just leave, but as we were walking out, one of the guys at the bar mumbled something about "Niggers". At that time, at 6' tall and 235 lb's, I had no problem getting that racist piece of shit to buy my friend a drink before we walked out. If my friend had not been the "voice of reason" that night, I was in the process of getting every last guy in that bar to buy him a drink, ......or else, lol. I was very disturbed by how that part of the country just seemed to be stuck in the past. So, no.......the whole dog fighting thing does not suprise me.

[packinpatland]

I had been stationed in Norfolk Virginia back in 1994 when I had first joined the Navy. The whole dog fighting thing does not suprise me at all. I travelled all over that area in the time that I was stationed there, and the people to me, kind of seemed to be a little bit behind the rest of the country in a lot of ways. I remember going into a bar one night with a good friend of mine who happened to be black. Even though their were at least 10 guys sitting at the bar drinking, the bar tender told us that they were closed and that we had to leave. It was far from bar time, They simply did not want to serve a black man. I have a god awefull temper, but my friend said not to worry about it and we were about to just leave, but as we were walking out, one of the guys at the bar mumbled something about "Niggers". At that time, at 6' tall and 235 lb's, I had no problem getting that racist piece of shit to buy my friend a drink before we walked out. If my friend had not been the "voice of reason" that night, I was in the process of getting every last guy in that bar to buy him a drink, ......or else, lol. I was very disturbed by how that part of the country just seemed to be stuck in the past. So, no.......the whole dog fighting thing does not suprise me.



I do hope things have changed for the better in the last 13 years. :(

[MJZiggy]

Way to stand up for your friends, Blues. And for what's right.

[PackerBlues]

I do hope things have changed for the better in the last 13 years. :(

lol. I have not been back to that area since 1994. So the only things that I know of thats changed since then, would be the fact that I am now 30 pounds lighter in the muscle department, and far less likely to try taking on an entire bar full of racist rednecks. Although, my temper is not quite as bad, it might still "get me up" for at least kickin the shit out of at least one racist redneck if the opportunity were to present itself, lol.

13 years. It really does not feel like it was that long ago. But I agree, I hope things have changed.

Also, thanks MJZiggy. This friend of mine (Eric) was the first black friend I ever really had. Coming from a small town in Wisconsin that did not have any black people anywhere near where I lived.......I admit, I said some awefully stupid things over the years before I met Eric. He was a good person. The color of his skin didnt mean a damned thing to me, the only thing that mattered was that he was my friend. Our friends help to shape us, and make us who we are. I had it in my power to stick up for him, as a friend, and I did. Thats what friends do.
Perhaps I should have told this story to the (black) Master Chief that I talked to when I reported for duty in San Diego. The first thing he asked me when I reported to him was "Are you racist, and do you have a problem with black people". He then went on to say "I know how you white boys from Wisconsin are".
Such a nice welcome to the squadron. Its an interesting world that we live in, lol.

[packinpatland]

He then went on to say "I know how you white boys from Wisconsin are".

I'm confused. What did that mean?

[MJZiggy]

Hey!! Happy 1,000 posts, PIPL!!

[BallHawk]

Hey!! Happy 1,000 posts, PIPL!!

I second the congrats.

PIPL? That's a strange acronym to of thought up. :D

[PackerBlues]

He then went on to say "I know how you white boys from Wisconsin are".

I'm confused. What did that mean?

It means that I ran into a different kind of racism when I left Norfolk and reported to my permanant duty station in SanDiego. This Master Chief seemed to think that either Wisconsin was full of racist white boys, or that all "white boys" were racist. It was pretty fucked up. I was not being welcomed to the squadron, I was being accused of being racist because I was white and from Wisconsin. Needless to say, I did my best to avoid this Master Chief for the entire time that I was with the squadron.

[Zool]

Or maybe he was seeing how you were going to react when confronted.

[PackerBlues]

Or maybe he was seeing how you were going to react when confronted.

First of all, sorry that I seem to have hi-jacked this thread with my stupid little story.

Zool, speculate about any story you want on these boards. But please dont speculate on this one. I was there. I lived it. There was disgust and hatred in this Master Chiefs eyes. He was not "fishing" for a reaction. He did not like me from the start, simply because I was white. He was a racist asshole, every bit as bad as the rednecks at that bar. He had no reason to "confront" me about anything, and I do not appreciate where that line of thought leads in the least.

[PackerBlues]

Story from two days ago.

http://www.newsday.com/sports/football/ny-spvick0610,0,5168147.story?coll=ny-sports-headlines


It seems that while the dog fighting is a felony, it is considered a minor one and it only carries a $2,500. fine. Without a previous criminal record, it would likely be dropped to a misdemeanor with a small amount of probation. sounds like Vick would be in more trouble from the NFL commisioner than he would from any law enforcement agency.

Antonio Pierce was fined $15,000 last season for a late hit on Vick, what kind of a fine do you think Goodell would slap on Vick if he were to be convicted of animal cruelty?

[MadtownPacker]

He then went on to say "I know how you white boys from Wisconsin are".

I'm confused. What did that mean?Maybe he was worried you where gonna go all Jeffery Dalmer on him. :P

[PackerBlues]

He then went on to say "I know how you white boys from Wisconsin are".

I'm confused. What did that mean?Maybe he was worried you where gonna go all Jeffery Dalmer on him. :P

Ya know, I really had not thought of that. Poor Master Chief. :crazy:

[PackerBlues]

https://community.hsus.org/campaign/US_2007_dogfighting_nfl?qp_source=gaba5p&gclid=CPj%2d8rSI14wCFRlmWAod6WF8tQ

Interesting.

[packinpatland]

Hey!! Happy 1,000 posts, PIPL!!

I honestly didn't realize.
Thank you!

[mngolf19]

[quote="PackerBlues Perhaps I should have told this story to the (black) Master Chief that I talked to when I reported for duty in San Diego. The first thing he asked me when I reported to him was "Are you racist, and do you have a problem with black people". He then went on to say "I know how you white boys from Wisconsin are".
Such a nice welcome to the squadron. Its an interesting world that we live in, lol.[/quote]

Blues, you and I might be alot alike. I have similar stories, both from your bar patrons and from your Master Chief. In the Army, I had a sgt. say the same crap to me. Didn't get it then, and not sure I do now. Of course being from MN, I also know "how you boys from Wis are". :wink:

[PackerBlues]

:glug:

[MJZiggy]

Careful with that... :alc:

[oregonpackfan]

Hey!! Happy 1,000 posts, PIPL!!

I honestly didn't realize.
Thank you!

PIPL,

If the two of us combined our respective posts, do you think we could catch MJZiggy in the next month(year)(century)? :)

[MJZiggy]

Not if I keep congratulating you on each milestone. And not if people keep talking about my favorite team (but that kinda is the whole point, isn't it?)

[Bretsky]

Hey!! Happy 1,000 posts, PIPL!!

I honestly didn't realize.
Thank you!

PIPL,

If the two of us combined our respective posts, do you think we could catch MJZiggy in the next month(year)(century)? :)


If you both quit your jobs at least you'd have a fighting chance :lol:

[packinpatland]

Hey!! Happy 1,000 posts, PIPL!!

I honestly didn't realize.
Thank you!

PIPL,

If the two of us combined our respective posts, do you think we could catch MJZiggy in the next month(year)(century)? :)


You, me and at least 4 others!!!

[GBRulz]

If you both quit your jobs at least you'd have a fighting chance :lol:

:laugh:

[GBRulz]

speaking of posts.... I think this was about the number where I was at before PR crashed a few months back. Dayum, it's taken me this long to catch up??

[BallHawk]

speaking of posts.... I think this was about the number where I was at before PR crashed a few months back. Dayum, it's taken me this long to catch up??

Quality over quality.

Woody has so many posts because during the Canadian winter he shells up in his house and posts about 40 articles a day. :wink:

MJ, uh....I really don't have an excuse for her. Maybe she just has a lot of time on her hands.....

:satan: :satan: :satan: :satan:



I kid, I kid. :wink: :wink:

[GBRulz]

ha! Right on...Woody posts books, not posts. :lol:

[packinpatland]

ha! Right on...Woody posts books, not posts. :lol:

Good thing he doesn't get credit 'per line'. :shock:

[Scott Campbell]

Looks like Mike has the Feds to worry about now.

Federal involvement is not good news for Vick

By Lester Munson
ESPN.com
(Archive)

Updated: June 15, 2007

It was a bit of a surprise when federal agents raided the compound owned by Atlanta Falcons quarterback Michael Vick in Surry County, Va., last week and took over an investigation into allegations of dogfighting. Even the local authorities in Surry who've been conducting their own probe were stunned by the federal action. Commonwealth's Attorney Gerald Poindexter said, "I'm amazed, to be quite honest."

The government's action raises questions. Here are some answers . . .

Federal investigators have been scouring Michael Vick's property in rural Virginia looking for evidence of dogfighting. What's going on? And how did the U.S. government become involved?

Using powerful laws that were enacted only a month ago (a bill known as HR 137), agents of the U.S. Department of Agriculture are determining whether Vick and others should be prosecuted for promoting and sponsoring dogfights. The new federal law makes it a felony to organize a dogfight. A subdivision of the Agriculture Department is pursuing similar cases elsewhere with considerable support from humane societies and local police departments. The Vick investigation is one of many across the U.S.

Is this something Vick should worry about?

Definitely. The local police and the county prosecutor were taking their time in their investigation of Vick and the 66 dogs seized on his property. Poindexter, the Commonwealth's Attorney, refused to execute a search warrant on Vick's property, and that's a rare event in the world of law enforcement. In fact, he actually let the warrant expire, creating the impression that things might be worked out in a friendly settlement with the local authorities. But the day after the county search warrant expired, the USDA agents were on the scene armed with their own search warrant. So instead of reluctant local cops, Vick appears now to be up against the might of the federal government.

What can the federal government do to Vick?

The USDA and other federal agencies will now be sifting through all aspects of his life. The dogfighting investigation easily could grow into examinations of his income, taxes and other holdings. If they find sufficient evidence, the federal agencies will submit it to the U.S. Department of Justice and then, possibly, to a grand jury for indictment.

Are they doing this just because Vick is a famous quarterback?

No. The USDA and the humane societies are engaged in a major effort to end animal fighting in the U.S. They are interested in people who promote and sponsor dogfights. It might matter to some of the animal-rights lobbyists who can use Vick's celebrity to promote their causes; but legally, Vick's football success is inconsequential. In Dayton, Ohio, for example, the USDA and other federal and state agencies investigated a dogfighting operation for 14 months, seized 64 dogs, and indicted nine people. Last week, state authorities in Ohio charged another 38 who were involved in the same scheme. All 38 are charged with state felonies. Although that investigation began with a dogfighting conspiracy, it quickly led to drug, gun and gambling charges as well. The charges even include bartered purchases of food stamp machines. The payments for the food stamp machines, which produce valuable food stamps for use as cash in retail stores, included a stolen Corvette and wholesale quantities of cocaine.

Is dogfighting illegal everywhere?

Yes. It's a felony in 48 states and a misdemeanor in Wyoming and Idaho. But the new federal law trumps state laws. If you're involved in dogfighting, you now face the prospect of a federal prosecution with agents of the USDA, FBI and IRS coming after you.

Can people be sent to jail for dogfighting?

Yes. As the result of the new federal laws, jail is a probability upon conviction. Until last month, a federal dogfighting charge was a misdemeanor and likely would result in probation and a fine. Now, it's a felony that comes with a sentence of as many as five years in jail.

What will happen to Vick's house and the black buildings in the backyard where, investigators suspect, dogfighting was carried out?

Now that the federal government is involved, there is a real possibility that the house and the land will be forfeited to the government. If charges are filed against Vick or anyone else, the government will demand that the property be taken from Vick. Vick is in the process of selling the real estate to an unknown buyer, but the sale might not happen if federal charges are filed. In the Ohio case, the federal prosecutors are asking for similar forfeitures.

Vick apparently wasn't living in the house. What will happen to the people who were?

Their situation is just as bad as the dilemma facing Vick. If investigators determine that dogfighting, in fact, was taking place there and Vick is able to convince authorities that he was not involved, then the focus of the probe will turn to those who were training and fighting the dogs found on the property. They will be subject to the same tougher laws that Vick now faces.

If he was involved but not actually in attendance at the dogfights, though, Vick could still be charged under the law's prohibition of sponsorship or promotion of dogfighting.

ESPN.com's Lester Munson is a Chicago lawyer and journalist who has been reporting on investigative and legal issues in the sports industry for 18 years.

[packinpatland]

ha! Right on...Woody posts books, not posts. :lol:

Great Avatar, GB

[Bretsky]

Looks like Mike has the Feds to worry about now.

Federal involvement is not good news for Vick

By Lester Munson
ESPN.com
(Archive)

Updated: June 15, 2007

It was a bit of a surprise when federal agents raided the compound owned by Atlanta Falcons quarterback Michael Vick in Surry County, Va., last week and took over an investigation into allegations of dogfighting. Even the local authorities in Surry who've been conducting their own probe were stunned by the federal action. Commonwealth's Attorney Gerald Poindexter said, "I'm amazed, to be quite honest."

The government's action raises questions. Here are some answers . . .

Federal investigators have been scouring Michael Vick's property in rural Virginia looking for evidence of dogfighting. What's going on? And how did the U.S. government become involved?

Using powerful laws that were enacted only a month ago (a bill known as HR 137), agents of the U.S. Department of Agriculture are determining whether Vick and others should be prosecuted for promoting and sponsoring dogfights. The new federal law makes it a felony to organize a dogfight. A subdivision of the Agriculture Department is pursuing similar cases elsewhere with considerable support from humane societies and local police departments. The Vick investigation is one of many across the U.S.

Is this something Vick should worry about?

Definitely. The local police and the county prosecutor were taking their time in their investigation of Vick and the 66 dogs seized on his property. Poindexter, the Commonwealth's Attorney, refused to execute a search warrant on Vick's property, and that's a rare event in the world of law enforcement. In fact, he actually let the warrant expire, creating the impression that things might be worked out in a friendly settlement with the local authorities. But the day after the county search warrant expired, the USDA agents were on the scene armed with their own search warrant. So instead of reluctant local cops, Vick appears now to be up against the might of the federal government.

What can the federal government do to Vick?

The USDA and other federal agencies will now be sifting through all aspects of his life. The dogfighting investigation easily could grow into examinations of his income, taxes and other holdings. If they find sufficient evidence, the federal agencies will submit it to the U.S. Department of Justice and then, possibly, to a grand jury for indictment.

Are they doing this just because Vick is a famous quarterback?

No. The USDA and the humane societies are engaged in a major effort to end animal fighting in the U.S. They are interested in people who promote and sponsor dogfights. It might matter to some of the animal-rights lobbyists who can use Vick's celebrity to promote their causes; but legally, Vick's football success is inconsequential. In Dayton, Ohio, for example, the USDA and other federal and state agencies investigated a dogfighting operation for 14 months, seized 64 dogs, and indicted nine people. Last week, state authorities in Ohio charged another 38 who were involved in the same scheme. All 38 are charged with state felonies. Although that investigation began with a dogfighting conspiracy, it quickly led to drug, gun and gambling charges as well. The charges even include bartered purchases of food stamp machines. The payments for the food stamp machines, which produce valuable food stamps for use as cash in retail stores, included a stolen Corvette and wholesale quantities of cocaine.

Is dogfighting illegal everywhere?

Yes. It's a felony in 48 states and a misdemeanor in Wyoming and Idaho. But the new federal law trumps state laws. If you're involved in dogfighting, you now face the prospect of a federal prosecution with agents of the USDA, FBI and IRS coming after you.

Can people be sent to jail for dogfighting?

Yes. As the result of the new federal laws, jail is a probability upon conviction. Until last month, a federal dogfighting charge was a misdemeanor and likely would result in probation and a fine. Now, it's a felony that comes with a sentence of as many as five years in jail.

What will happen to Vick's house and the black buildings in the backyard where, investigators suspect, dogfighting was carried out?

Now that the federal government is involved, there is a real possibility that the house and the land will be forfeited to the government. If charges are filed against Vick or anyone else, the government will demand that the property be taken from Vick. Vick is in the process of selling the real estate to an unknown buyer, but the sale might not happen if federal charges are filed. In the Ohio case, the federal prosecutors are asking for similar forfeitures.

Vick apparently wasn't living in the house. What will happen to the people who were?

Their situation is just as bad as the dilemma facing Vick. If investigators determine that dogfighting, in fact, was taking place there and Vick is able to convince authorities that he was not involved, then the focus of the probe will turn to those who were training and fighting the dogs found on the property. They will be subject to the same tougher laws that Vick now faces.

If he was involved but not actually in attendance at the dogfights, though, Vick could still be charged under the law's prohibition of sponsorship or promotion of dogfighting.

ESPN.com's Lester Munson is a Chicago lawyer and journalist who has been reporting on investigative and legal issues in the sports industry for 18 years.


Bring the dirt down; it's obvious he's involved, but unlikely anything gets proven

[oregonpackfan]

ha! Right on...Woody posts books, not posts. :lol:

Great Avatar, GB

GBRulz,

Your new avatar is one goofy snapshot of Brett! As St. Vincent would say, "What the hell is going on out there!" :)