to all the TT haters

[ZachMN]

There seems to be a sentiment that Ted and or the Pack owes Brett a shot at a championship. Well over the last three years has Brett made a commitment beyond one year at a time? It's a two way street folks and seeing as how everyone forgot that Brett has played his little game of should I or shouldn't I one should give Ted credit for taking that as his cue to do his own thing.
One more thing, although its easy now to say but who would've guessed that Brett would be available in every game? TT has to consider that Brett could have been injured and his career over. Its not like we're talking about a 24 to 26 year old guy who would be a lot more likely to come back from something. TT had to take that into consideration or he'd be an idiot.

[PackerBlues]

Dude, haven't you heard? We all love TT now. There are no TT haters left in these forums........or on the face of the planet Earth for that matter.

Try again directly after next years draft, I am sure you will find at least one or two TT haters then.
:beat: :cow:

[Spaulding]

Zach, it's a tough crowd in here :D and our boring offseason and draft are arming the majority with torches and pitchforks to rid the Pack of the polar bear.

I'm not one to get in the way of an angry mob and eventhough I still believe in Thompson at this point. I'll be loading my gun at the end of this year if we regress back to sub .500 though.

I've just gotta believe (hey I'm an optimist) that our team is going to gel and mature this year and potentially make the playoffs with another stride to improvement and playoff contention next year.

Really, for all the faults poured on TT for his offseason and draft moves, in reality more is dependent on M3 guiding the young team to success. If we see another three blowouts at home it's going to get awfully ugly.

[swede]

Really, for all the faults poured on TT for his offseason and draft moves, in reality more is dependent on M3 guiding the young team to success. If we see another three blowouts at home it's going to get awfully ugly.

Good point about M3.

It is so strange to have this GM heavy environment in Green Bay right now.

Sometimes with all the chattering about TT's drafts and TT's FA stuff it is hard to remember that the single biggest gamble he's taken in terms of building this team has been the hiring of Mike McCarthy and allowing him to build a coaching staff around relative unknowns like Bob Sanders and Joe Philbin and a way too well-known in the guise of Kurt Schottenheimer.

Will this team be taught and prepared well enough to make the critical move from a team that plays poorly because of less talent to a team that plays better than others despite having less talent? That's going to be on M3's head.

[retailguy]

Sometimes with all the chattering about TT's drafts and TT's FA stuff it is hard to remember that the single biggest gamble he's taken in terms of building this team has been the hiring of Mike McCarthy and allowing him to build a coaching staff around relative unknowns like Bob Sanders and Joe Philbin and a way too well-known in the guise of Kurt Schottenheimer.

Will this team be taught and prepared well enough to make the critical move from a team that plays poorly because of less talent to a team that plays better than others despite having less talent? That's going to be on M3's head.

It is important to note that M3 will be a "lame duck" at the close of this season without an extension.... The fall guy if things go bad? I think so.

[Joemailman]

Really, for all the faults poured on TT for his offseason and draft moves, in reality more is dependent on M3 guiding the young team to success. If we see another three blowouts at home it's going to get awfully ugly.

Good point about M3.

It is so strange to have this GM heavy environment in Green Bay right now.

Sometimes with all the chattering about TT's drafts and TT's FA stuff it is hard to remember that the single biggest gamble he's taken in terms of building this team has been the hiring of Mike McCarthy and allowing him to build a coaching staff around relative unknowns like Bob Sanders and Joe Philbin and a way too well-known in the guise of Kurt Schottenheimer.

Will this team be taught and prepared well enough to make the critical move from a team that plays poorly because of less talent to a team that plays better than others despite having less talent? That's going to be on M3's head.

I think M3 is getting a pass because he managed to win 8 games in his 1st year following a 4-12 season by his predecessor. If the team backslides this year, all those questions that were raised when M3 was hired will come flooding back.

[MadtownPacker]

I'm still in TT's car. I have no issues with his drafts. I DO have a problem with him not having been more active this offseason. moss was on of the few players that would have fit a position of need well. Unlike the others (Michael Turner, Larry Johnson), moss could have been had for peanuts. Its not like TT didnt have the $$$ or the draft picks.

He could have had the same team he has right now minus one player for the pick given up. IMO he didnt play it right and lost. He would have been shining right now had he made this one high risk/high reward move. Instead he has all this turmoil. I even wonder if he didnt tell Favre he would be adding FA(s) to the offense. Might have has something to do with why Favre announced he wasnt retiring so early.

[mraynrand]

Sometimes with all the chattering about TT's drafts and TT's FA stuff it is hard to remember that the single biggest gamble he's taken in terms of building this team has been the hiring of Mike McCarthy and allowing him to build a coaching staff around relative unknowns like Bob Sanders and Joe Philbin and a way too well-known in the guise of Kurt Schottenheimer.

Will this team be taught and prepared well enough to make the critical move from a team that plays poorly because of less talent to a team that plays better than others despite having less talent? That's going to be on M3's head.

It is important to note that M3 will be a "lame duck" at the close of this season without an extension.... The fall guy if things go bad? I think so.

I thought the fall guy was Lee Majors.

[Spaulding]

Sometimes with all the chattering about TT's drafts and TT's FA stuff it is hard to remember that the single biggest gamble he's taken in terms of building this team has been the hiring of Mike McCarthy and allowing him to build a coaching staff around relative unknowns like Bob Sanders and Joe Philbin and a way too well-known in the guise of Kurt Schottenheimer.

Will this team be taught and prepared well enough to make the critical move from a team that plays poorly because of less talent to a team that plays better than others despite having less talent? That's going to be on M3's head.

It is important to note that M3 will be a "lame duck" at the close of this season without an extension.... The fall guy if things go bad? I think so.

I thought the fall guy was Lee Majors.

Man that pickup he had in the show was sweet. Also the blonde (Heather something?) wasn't too shabby either. Howie had to go though :D

[Scott Campbell]

Sometimes with all the chattering about TT's drafts and TT's FA stuff it is hard to remember that the single biggest gamble he's taken in terms of building this team has been the hiring of Mike McCarthy and allowing him to build a coaching staff around relative unknowns like Bob Sanders and Joe Philbin and a way too well-known in the guise of Kurt Schottenheimer.

Will this team be taught and prepared well enough to make the critical move from a team that plays poorly because of less talent to a team that plays better than others despite having less talent? That's going to be on M3's head.

It is important to note that M3 will be a "lame duck" at the close of this season without an extension.... The fall guy if things go bad? I think so.

I thought the fall guy was Lee Majors.

Lee Majors was the $6 million dollar man. McCarthy isn't making anywhere near that.

[Freak Out]

Sometimes with all the chattering about TT's drafts and TT's FA stuff it is hard to remember that the single biggest gamble he's taken in terms of building this team has been the hiring of Mike McCarthy and allowing him to build a coaching staff around relative unknowns like Bob Sanders and Joe Philbin and a way too well-known in the guise of Kurt Schottenheimer.

Will this team be taught and prepared well enough to make the critical move from a team that plays poorly because of less talent to a team that plays better than others despite having less talent? That's going to be on M3's head.

It is important to note that M3 will be a "lame duck" at the close of this season without an extension.... The fall guy if things go bad? I think so.

I thought the fall guy was Lee Majors.

Lee Majors was the $6 million dollar man. McCarthy isn't making anywhere near that.

Was that some horrid television or what. The bionic woman and the six million dollar man. Did Efrem Zimbalist or Spelling make those shows? How to be Zimbalist.

[mraynrand]

Lee Majors was the Fall Guy

http://epguides.com/FallGuy/cast.jpg

and the 6 million dollar man

http://www.cinemas-online.co.uk/website/soapbox/hollywood/tv2m/6mill.jpg

[b bulldog]

Heather Locklear posters were chot in the early 80's.

[woodbuck27]

I'm still in TT's car. I have no issues with his drafts. I DO have a problem with him not having been more active this offseason. moss was on of the few players that would have fit a position of need well. Unlike the others (Michael Turner, Larry Johnson), moss could have been had for peanuts. Its not like TT didnt have the $$$ or the draft picks.

He could have had the same team he has right now minus one player for the pick given up. IMO he didnt play it right and lost. He would have been shining right now had he made this one high risk/high reward move. Instead he has all this turmoil. I even wonder if he didnt tell Favre he would be adding FA(s) to the offense. Might have has something to do with why Favre announced he wasnt retiring so early.

There the nail has been hit on it's head.

If TT doesn't just poster in our need to acquire something even close to real for our 'O', and brings in Randy Moss for what alot of us felt it would take or a third round pick then all would have been forgiven.

We lost Randy Moss and gained a rookie WR with that 3rd or **. We all know how Favre feels about that strategy.

** Randy Moss or Rookie WR James Jones or Rookie SS Aaron Rouse ?

Ted Thompson remained Ted Thompson and simply FAILED !!

We must see on this forum that TT's a tad apprehensive in how he deals with acquisitions. He has to step up to the plate swinging more.

[Zool]

I'm still in TT's car. I have no issues with his drafts. I DO have a problem with him not having been more active this offseason. moss was on of the few players that would have fit a position of need well. Unlike the others (Michael Turner, Larry Johnson), moss could have been had for peanuts. Its not like TT didnt have the $$$ or the draft picks.

He could have had the same team he has right now minus one player for the pick given up. IMO he didnt play it right and lost. He would have been shining right now had he made this one high risk/high reward move. Instead he has all this turmoil. I even wonder if he didnt tell Favre he would be adding FA(s) to the offense. Might have has something to do with why Favre announced he wasnt retiring so early.

There the nail has been hit on it's head.

If TT doesn't just poster in our need to acquire something even close to real for our 'O', and brings in Randy Moss for what alot of us felt it would take or a third round pick then all would have been forgiven.

We lost Randy Moss and gained a rookie WR with that 3rd or **. We all know how Favre feels about that strategy.

** Randy Moss or Rookie WR James Jones or Rookie SS Aaron Rouse ?

Ted Thompson remained Ted Thompson and simply FAILED !!

We must see on this forum that TT's a tad apprehensive in how he deals with acquisitions. He has to step up to the plate swinging more.So is it a failure if either of those 2 becomes a 3-4 time pro bowler?

[woodbuck27]

I'm still in TT's car. I have no issues with his drafts. I DO have a problem with him not having been more active this offseason. moss was on of the few players that would have fit a position of need well. Unlike the others (Michael Turner, Larry Johnson), moss could have been had for peanuts. Its not like TT didnt have the $$$ or the draft picks.

He could have had the same team he has right now minus one player for the pick given up. IMO he didnt play it right and lost. He would have been shining right now had he made this one high risk/high reward move. Instead he has all this turmoil. I even wonder if he didnt tell Favre he would be adding FA(s) to the offense. Might have has something to do with why Favre announced he wasnt retiring so early.

There the nail has been hit on it's head.

If TT doesn't just poster in our need to acquire something even close to real for our 'O', and brings in Randy Moss for what alot of us felt it would take or a third round pick then all would have been forgiven.

We lost Randy Moss and gained a rookie WR with that 3rd or **. We all know how Favre feels about that strategy.

** Randy Moss or Rookie WR James Jones or Rookie SS Aaron Rouse ?

Ted Thompson remained Ted Thompson and simply FAILED !!

We must see on this forum that TT's a tad apprehensive in how he deals with acquisitions. He has to step up to the plate swinging more.

So is it a failure if either of those 2 becomes a 3-4 time pro bowler?

Of course not but what are the statistical chances of that being a reality?

I believe that it's easier to examine this in a different context.

The long term benefit of that 3rd round pick or immediate or 2007-08 seasons by using it to acquire Randy Moss ?

We are 12-20 under TT and headed for a more difficult SOS this season. We are certainly hard pressed for our running game to improve over the past two seasons with little more than a wish and a prayer that our young players on the OL will step it up.

With the way it's been over the past two seasons Favre has had to pass way too often. It certainly could be just that again and Randy Moss would have been a better bet than James Jones to assist us there.

[Zool]

I'm still in TT's car. I have no issues with his drafts. I DO have a problem with him not having been more active this offseason. moss was on of the few players that would have fit a position of need well. Unlike the others (Michael Turner, Larry Johnson), moss could have been had for peanuts. Its not like TT didnt have the $$$ or the draft picks.

He could have had the same team he has right now minus one player for the pick given up. IMO he didnt play it right and lost. He would have been shining right now had he made this one high risk/high reward move. Instead he has all this turmoil. I even wonder if he didnt tell Favre he would be adding FA(s) to the offense. Might have has something to do with why Favre announced he wasnt retiring so early.

There the nail has been hit on it's head.

If TT doesn't just poster in our need to acquire something even close to real for our 'O', and brings in Randy Moss for what alot of us felt it would take or a third round pick then all would have been forgiven.

We lost Randy Moss and gained a rookie WR with that 3rd or **. We all know how Favre feels about that strategy.

** Randy Moss or Rookie WR James Jones or Rookie SS Aaron Rouse ?

Ted Thompson remained Ted Thompson and simply FAILED !!

We must see on this forum that TT's a tad apprehensive in how he deals with acquisitions. He has to step up to the plate swinging more.

So is it a failure if either of those 2 becomes a 3-4 time pro bowler?

Of course not but what are the statistical chances of that being a reality?

I believe that it's easier to examine this in a different context.

The long term benefit of that 3rd round pick or immediate or 2007-08 seasons by using it to acquire Randy Moss ?

We are 12-20 under TT and headed for a more difficult SOS this season. We are certainly hard pressed for our running game to improve over the past two seasons with little more than a wish and a prayer that our young players on the OL will step it up.

With the way it's been over the past two seasons Favre has had to pass way too often. It certainly could be just that again and Randy Moss would have been a better bet than James Jones to assist us there.So going off history a 3rd round pick is no guarantee to be a pro-bowler, but you ignore the last 2 years of Randy Moss's career? This is what I dont understand. You cant use history on one, but ignore it on the other. There's absolutely no guarantee that Moss would have done anything.

[Merlin]

Nope, sure isn't a guarantee that Moss would do anything. I am not a gambling man but I would gamble on Moss outperforming any WR we drafted by a ton.

[Zool]

And thats fine, but it shouldnt be stated as a set in stone fact, and that is the point I'm trying to make.

[woodbuck27]

I'm still in TT's car. I have no issues with his drafts. I DO have a problem with him not having been more active this offseason. moss was on of the few players that would have fit a position of need well. Unlike the others (Michael Turner, Larry Johnson), moss could have been had for peanuts. Its not like TT didnt have the $$$ or the draft picks.

He could have had the same team he has right now minus one player for the pick given up. IMO he didnt play it right and lost. He would have been shining right now had he made this one high risk/high reward move. Instead he has all this turmoil. I even wonder if he didnt tell Favre he would be adding FA(s) to the offense. Might have has something to do with why Favre announced he wasnt retiring so early.

There the nail has been hit on it's head.

If TT doesn't just poster in our need to acquire something even close to real for our 'O', and brings in Randy Moss for what alot of us felt it would take or a third round pick then all would have been forgiven.

We lost Randy Moss and gained a rookie WR with that 3rd or **. We all know how Favre feels about that strategy.

** Randy Moss or Rookie WR James Jones or Rookie SS Aaron Rouse ?

Ted Thompson remained Ted Thompson and simply FAILED !!

We must see on this forum that TT's a tad apprehensive in how he deals with acquisitions. He has to step up to the plate swinging more.

So is it a failure if either of those 2 becomes a 3-4 time pro bowler?

Of course not but what are the statistical chances of that being a reality?

I believe that it's easier to examine this in a different context.

The long term benefit of that 3rd round pick or immediate or 2007-08 seasons by using it to acquire Randy Moss ?

We are 12-20 under TT and headed for a more difficult SOS this season. We are certainly hard pressed for our running game to improve over the past two seasons with little more than a wish and a prayer that our young players on the OL will step it up.

With the way it's been over the past two seasons Favre has had to pass way too often. It certainly could be just that again and Randy Moss would have been a better bet than James Jones to assist us there.So going off history a 3rd round pick is no guarantee to be a pro-bowler, but you ignore the last 2 years of Randy Moss's career? This is what I dont understand. You cant use history on one, but ignore it on the other. There's absolutely no guarantee that Moss would have done anything.

Given what we now are determining as the low cost to bring in Moss before the draft (say for that 3rd Rd. pick) my argument is very clear.

A players happiness will go a long ways towords his contribution to his team.

All the reports on Moss were that he was healthy and ready for a change of scenery and that he would prosper if the right team went for his services. For months that team was rumored to be the Green Bay Packers.

TT made at best. A half hearted attempt to land Randy Moss.

In that half hearted attempt or his postering to acquire Moss ,we are now aware of a contradiction.

He was willing only to deal his 5th round pick and then a clear contradiction on his value in TT's eyes is given, as we are learning, that TT wanted Moss for a two year contract not one.

Which way is it Ted?

Ted Thompson could have acquired Randy Moss for a third round pick and sat on a risk for only one season. All parties would have been satisfied.

[Zool]

There have been 100 posts with links to Randy Moss quotes that would say otherwise. Moss apparently used the Packers as a leverage tool to land where he wanted to for a price he was willing to accept.

No one here will ever know what really went down.

[woodbuck27]

There have been 100 posts with links to Randy Moss quotes that would say otherwise. Moss apparently used the Packers as a leverage tool to land where he wanted to for a price he was willing to accept.

No one here will ever know what really went down.

We can't side away fr. this fact.

Ted Thompson was certainly in the bidding even if it was under his terms and or agenda.

Ted Thompson failed to deliver and it now appeaers that where he failed was in his inability to take advantage of proper timing.

It's as I said earlier.

If TT was a Texas Holdem' player he'd never really be in the game as he only likes to anti up and then sit till the next round.

On and on he goes the same way.

He has to step up his game.

GO PACKERS !!

[Bretsky]

There have been 100 posts with links to Randy Moss quotes that would say otherwise. Moss apparently used the Packers as a leverage tool to land where he wanted to for a price he was willing to accept.

No one here will ever know what really went down.

NO STONES

[ZachMN]

I think some of you are missing the point. Your making TT out to be chicken when he has never had anything more than "this year" from Brett. Did Brett commit to three years when TT took over? If he didn't then he should quit whining. The franchise shouldn't be decimated to make another run. Sherman choked on 4th and 1 when he had an awesome backfield. Favrah choked when he threw the brick up in the same game. In TT's defense it benefits him to have Brett here a few years to get his records and keep the fans interested while he stocks the roster with good young talent allowing the Pack to be above average and not suffer the pendelum swings associated with going after every available FA who happens to want to be overpaid. Everyone's irrational love affair with Brett is clouding their perspective on TT. I love that bumper sticker photo that says Ted Thompson:the right man for the Job. Absolutley love it.

Lot of Crow will be eaten on this board when this team is strong from top to bottom due to TT's "plan". Having a kick ass QB is very rare and TT knows this that is why you build a team this way to suffer through the average ones that populate the league. There are only 3 to 4 "good" ones at one time. Maybe two "superstar" caliber types. You have to play the odds and if you get another HOF QB then you'll have a dynasty.

Just don't criticise TT for not doing all he can do when Favrah hasn't done anything except hem and haw every offseason about coming back.

[Rastak]

I think some of you are missing the point. Your making TT out to be chicken when he has never had anything more than "this year" from Brett. Did Brett commit to three years when TT took over? If he didn't then he should quit whining. The franchise shouldn't be decimated to make another run. Sherman choked on 4th and 1 when he had an awesome backfield. Favrah choked when he threw the brick up in the same game. In TT's defense it benefits him to have Brett here a few years to get his records and keep the fans interested while he stocks the roster with good young talent allowing the Pack to be above average and not suffer the pendelum swings associated with going after every available FA who happens to want to be overpaid. Everyone's irrational love affair with Brett is clouding their perspective on TT. I love that bumper sticker photo that says Ted Thompson:the right man for the Job. Absolutley love it.

Lot of Crow will be eaten on this board when this team is strong from top to bottom due to TT's "plan". Having a kick ass QB is very rare and TT knows this that is why you build a team this way to suffer through the average ones that populate the league. There are only 3 to 4 "good" ones at one time. Maybe two "superstar" caliber types. You have to play the odds and if you get another HOF QB then you'll have a dynasty.

Just don't criticise TT for not doing all he can do when Favrah hasn't done anything except hem and haw every offseason about coming back.


He does raise some valid points.....

[woodbuck27]

Dude, haven't you heard? We all love TT now. There are no TT haters left in these forums........or on the face of the planet Earth for that matter.

Try again directly after next years draft, I am sure you will find at least one or two TT haters then.
:beat: :cow:

Yea !

Who are these so called TT haters?

[Patler]

The GMs who wasted Favre were Wolf and Sherman. They had him when he was still young, when the better players on the team were still young and when the nucleus of the team had been together for a while.

TT inherited a QB who was in decline, who was old and who has never been "in control" on the field. TT inherited an aging roster that lacked depth because of poor drafting and constant trade-ups by Sherman. To top it off, TT inherited a poor cap situation AND prominant players in contract-significant years.

The ones we should be angry at for wasting Favre are Wolf and Sherman. By the time TT got there, the Packers had no shot and needed retooling. TT is doing what HAD to be done.

[Bretsky]

I think some of you are missing the point. Your making TT out to be chicken when he has never had anything more than "this year" from Brett. Did Brett commit to three years when TT took over? If he didn't then he should quit whining. The franchise shouldn't be decimated to make another run. Sherman choked on 4th and 1 when he had an awesome backfield. Favrah choked when he threw the brick up in the same game. In TT's defense it benefits him to have Brett here a few years to get his records and keep the fans interested while he stocks the roster with good young talent allowing the Pack to be above average and not suffer the pendelum swings associated with going after every available FA who happens to want to be overpaid. Everyone's irrational love affair with Brett is clouding their perspective on TT. I love that bumper sticker photo that says Ted Thompson:the right man for the Job. Absolutley love it.

Lot of Crow will be eaten on this board when this team is strong from top to bottom due to TT's "plan". Having a kick ass QB is very rare and TT knows this that is why you build a team this way to suffer through the average ones that populate the league. There are only 3 to 4 "good" ones at one time. Maybe two "superstar" caliber types. You have to play the odds and if you get another HOF QB then you'll have a dynasty.

Just don't criticise TT for not doing all he can do when Favrah hasn't done anything except hem and haw every offseason about coming back.

Enough with the TT love; the jury is clearly out as to whether he will be an effective GM long term.

Short term he's straightened up the cap and had one good draft for sure....maybe more.

Short term he's restocked the roster with multiple multiple draft picks and we are younger.

Short term he used 35 + million of available cap space to sign effective free agents in Woodsen and Pickett last year.

I don't buy for a second we can judge him yet either way, and I don't but for a second that we should dismiss the idea that if TT would have went other routes that we could make one last run as a contender....not for Favre......but for the PACKERS.

TT would not agree with me there; his actions, especially last year, do not support the short term run mentality and he has not left us with a lot of title contention hope for the next couple years.

But he will be judged long term as to whether he brings a title to Green Bay.

Either I will eat crow happily after a Super Bowl, or I will remember TT as a rebuilder who chose to not make one last run while he had a Hall of Fame QB for a few years under his watch.

Not for BF, but for the PACKERS.

[Fritz]

What's kind of interesting to me is that early in this thread somebody - hrv, Shadow? made a point that it's odd how TT has become the focal point instead of the head coach. Traditionally that has not been the case. And, one page later, the talk has drifted from McCarthy to Thompson, again.

I wonder if this will change once we get into the season, and we can begin to second guess the play calling?

Run the ball, I say. Run the damn ball.

[MadtownPacker]

Just don't criticise TT for not doing all he can do when Favrah hasn't done anything except hem and haw every offseason about coming back.Favre (not Favrah, EVEN the resident bear troll doesnt say weak insults like that) was ONLY part of a era that brought the Pack out of the NFL basement and back into the limelight with a SB win, plus multiple winning and playoff seasons. Favre has ONLY started every game that TT has been GM for and helped keep the team in the national spotlight.

But other then that he hasnt done much. :roll:

I believe in TT's method and Im on his bandwagon but he could have showed a lil guts by at least trying to upgrade 1 position via FA. So until TT puts together a SB contender and actual WINS a SB I will have to hold him in lower regard then a Packer who ACTUALLY has.

[mraynrand]

The GMs who wasted Favre were Wolf and Sherman. They had him when he was still young, when the better players on the team were still young and when the nucleus of the team had been together for a while.

Uhh, I disagree on several points here. The Packers were in decline when Sherman was hired as head coach. Positions of extreme weakness on the team included DL, LB, WR, RB, OL. Wolf gave Sherman on final solid draft and GM job in 2000, but Sherman gets credit for developing and using properly Clifton, Tauscher, Wahle, Franks, KGB, Green, etc.

Sherman also Inherited a QB in his tenth season suffering from severe elbow tendinitis that affected him all of 2000 - a QB that suffered knee ligament damage in 2002, and a broken thumb in 2003. Favre's mobility took a nose dive following the knee injury, but prior to that point (and the loss of 9 starters in 2002), Sherman had led the Packers to an 8-1 record, had revamped the WR crew, and had Favre and the offense running at a high level. Sherman's running attack and pass protection schemes together reduced the number of pressures and sacks Favre suffered in 1998 and 1999.

Was the nucleus of the team together when Sherman started? Well, you had Favre and Sharper. As I mentioned, RB, WR, LB, and OL and DL were pretty much worthless or filled with stop-gap guys. Earl Dotson (back) was lost right away in 2000, Butler (shoulder) was injured and gone in 2001, Gilbert Brown (appetite) was lost and had one more fairly average season, Santana Dotson (bicep - edit - quad tendon) was lost . So what was the nucleus? It was the 2000 draft and Green, which Wolf aquired and Sherman developed.

Sherman didn't 'waste' Favre - he clearly mortgaged the future to WIN NOW with trading draft picks for Walker, Glenn, Harris. Favre had one of his best statistical seasons in 2004, despite problems with mobility - specifically because of the schemes Sherman put in place. I would argue that Sherman PRESERVED Favre. Yes he was unlucky with injuries in 2002 and was a miserable failure in the draft and in GM and coaching decisions in the 2003 offseason, but to say he wasted Favre, had a young Favre, and had a nucleus of young players that had 'been together a while' is really a stretch.

[PackerBlues]

I think that so far, people are far more concerned with the personnel that Thompson is getting for M3 than they are with the job that M3 is doing with the personnel he has to work with. My guess is that nobody really expects much out of M3 because of the personnel he has to work with. No knock on the new guys, it just takes time to teach a system to a player that has no experience in said system. That is where the veteran free agents would be helpful if Thompson would just use free agency. When you get a veteran player, you are not just looking at his stats and his salary, you also have to look at his experience. Even if a guy has not played in "our system", chances are, he has played against it (or a close enough variation of it) enough times, that he would be able to not only learn it faster, but he would also be in a position to help teach it to the rookies faster as well.

[mraynrand]

TT inherited an aging roster that lacked depth because of poor drafting and constant trade-ups by Sherman. To top it off, TT inherited a poor cap situation AND prominant players in contract-significant years.

By the time TT got there, the Packers had no shot and needed retooling. TT is doing what HAD to be done.

I do agree with these points

[Freak Out]

There seems to be a sentiment that Ted and or the Pack owes Brett a shot at a championship. Well over the last three years has Brett made a commitment beyond one year at a time? It's a two way street folks and seeing as how everyone forgot that Brett has played his little game of should I or shouldn't I one should give Ted credit for taking that as his cue to do his own thing.
One more thing, although its easy now to say but who would've guessed that Brett would be available in every game? TT has to consider that Brett could have been injured and his career over. Its not like we're talking about a 24 to 26 year old guy who would be a lot more likely to come back from something. TT had to take that into consideration or he'd be an idiot.

Ted has one job....bringing a SB back to GB. I think he is blowing his one good chance before he gets fired. I hope I'm wrong.

[Freak Out]

The GMs who wasted Favre were Wolf and Sherman. They had him when he was still young, when the better players on the team were still young and when the nucleus of the team had been together for a while.

Uhh, I disagree on several points here. The Packers were in decline when Sherman was hired as head coach. Positions of extreme weakness on the team included DL, LB, WR, RB, OL. Wolf gave Sherman on final solid draft and GM job in 2000, but Sherman gets credit for developing and using properly Clifton, Tauscher, Wahle, Franks, KGB, Green, etc.

Sherman also Inherited a QB in his tenth season suffering from severe elbow tendinitis that affected him all of 2000 - a QB that suffered knee ligament damage in 2002, and a broken thumb in 2003. Favre's mobility took a nose dive following the knee injury, but prior to that point (and the loss of 9 starters in 2002), Sherman had lead the Packers to an 8-1 record, had revamped the WR crew, and had Favre and the offense running at a high level. Sherman's running attack and pass protection schemes together reduced the number of pressures and sacks Favre suffered in 1998 and 1999.

Was the nucleus of the team together when Sherman started? Well, you had Favre and Sharper. As I mentioned, RB, WR, LB, and OL and DL were pretty much worthless or filled with stop-gap guys. Earl Dotson (back) was lost right away in 2000, Butler (shoulder) was injured and gone in 2001, Gilbert Brown (appetite) was lost and had one more fairly average season, Santana Dotson (bicep) was lost . So what was the nucleus? It was the 2000 draft and Green, which Wolf aquired and Sherman developed.

Sherman didn't 'waste' Favre - he clearly mortgaged the future to WIN NOW with trading draft picks for Walker, Glenn, Harris. Favre had one of his best statistical seasons in 2004, despite problems with mobility - specifically because of the schemes Sherman put in place. I would argue that Sherman PRESERVED Favre. Yes he was unlucky with injuries in 2002 and was a miserable failure in the draft and in GM and coaching decisions in the 2003 offseason, but to say he wasted Favre, had a young Favre, and had a nucleus of young players that had 'been together a while' is really a stretch.

Very nice Gault.

[ZachMN]

I'm not taking a shot at Brett when I write Favrah- I purposely mispronounce any name of someone or something that I have an affinity for. Coming from me its a term of endearment and if you don't like it oh well..............................................


Don't misunderstand me, I am not anti Brett. I was a 9 and 10 years old in MN wearing Green Bay gear and getting ripped for it. Had a helmet which I still regret throwing out when I moved. I still get misty eyed remembering the day on the local news when the reporter said-l'ooks like Green Bay is going to win a Super Bowl'- while showing the highlights of Brett throwing to Kitrick Taylor. That really happened. I kid you not.
I still like Lynn Dickey better however......
he was my first ya know!!!

GO PACK GO