Cap

[Packnut]

Look's like I was right about how much the cap was going up to next year. It also backs up my point about why teams where spending the amount of cash that they did. So any of you making the case of over-spending and how it would hurt future cap considerations were wrong. :P

The cap is expected to rise to $115 million or more in 2008, and the Packers have between $95 million and $100 million in commitments, a number that is certain to drop during fall cuts. So, Thompson is poised to enter a third straight offseason with more than $20 million to spend — and $12 million more if quarterback Brett Favre retires — though he's proven it's possible to fill cap space without spending a lot of cash.

[packers11]

speaking of cap...

http://www.packersnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070527/PKR01/705270629/1989

Posted May 27, 2007
Cap savings or salvation?

Team must choose between keeping or cutting vets like Ferguson, Franks, KGB and Manuel

By Tom Pelissero
tpelisse@greenbaypressgazette.com


Four veterans coming off disappointing seasons are slated to take up more than 11 percent of the Green Bay Packers' salary cap for the upcoming season.


The team could release some combination of Marquand Manuel, Bubba Franks, Robert Ferguson and Kabeer Gbaja-Biamila by Sept. 1. But increased spending power, a young roster and management's commitment to long-term flexibility make it possible for all four to make the team — even if none earns a starting role.


That would have seemed impossible a year ago, before NFL owners and the players' association agreed to extend the collective bargaining agreement, thus avoiding the need to release high-priced players to stay under the salary cap. The cap has risen from $85.5 million in 2005 to $109 million this year.


Armed with roughly $30 million in cap space, the Packers this offseason re-signed starters Nick Barnett and Cullen Jenkins to long-term contracts with a combined first-year cap hit of about $11.5 million. Their only notable free-agent signing was cornerback Frank Walker, who got a one-year, $1.24 million deal.


Subtracting their $4.907 million allotment for rookies, the Packers are roughly $10 million below the cap. So, players like Manuel, Franks, Ferguson and Gbaja-Biamila have an opportunity to keep making inflated salaries despite deflated production, provided General Manager Ted Thompson believes they're making positive contributions.


"You have to say, 'OK, what can this person do for us as a football team?'" Thompson said last week, speaking generally. "A lot of times, (a player's income) just has to do with timing, the nature of the position, when those contracts were negotiated. So, you can never wipe the slate clean and say, 'OK, we're going to be absolutely fair to the dime with every guy.'"


Role playing

Manuel, 27, is the only member of the group going through the offseason program as a starter, but his spot on the 53-man roster is in jeopardy as much as any. He was inconsistent in his first season in Green Bay, and the Packers spent a third-round draft pick on strong safety Aaron Rouse.


Set to make $1.3 million this season, Manuel will try to prove groin and calf problems were all that prevented him from making the impact expected when the Packers gave him a five-year, $10 million free-agent deal before last season.


"Even though I was smart enough and physical enough to play the game, I still wasn't Marquand," Manuel said during last weekend's mandatory minicamp. "It's just a blessing to be healthy, man."


Manuel returned to his old offseason regimen this year, working with trainers in Arizona to improve his athleticism. Packers coaches expressed support for him throughout minicamp, though defensive coordinator Bob Sanders emphasized "there's competition at every spot." Atari Bigby and Marviel Underwood also may have a chance to unseat Manuel, or the team could bring in another veteran.


"Marquand took a lot of negative heat on some things," secondary coach Kurt Schottenheimer said. "He's overcome that, and again, he's come back (and) he's in excellent shape."


Franks, 29, says he's in the best shape he's been in years, but he's fallen behind Donald Lee on the depth chart and is battling Tory Humphrey to earn the No. 2 spot. A Pro Bowler from 2001 to 2003, Franks is coming off the two least-productive seasons of his career, and he's trying to find a niche in the Packers' zone-blocking scheme.


"We're going on our second year in it," said Franks, who said he's leaner and about 5 pounds lighter than a year ago. "Last year, they said it wasn't a new offense, but it kind of was. You're going to have your learning curves."


If he's in the rotation, Franks is a relative bargain at $1.4 million this season. He might find himself closer to the cutting block a year from now, when his base salary jumps to $3 million. He's slated to make at least $5 million the three seasons after that.


"We are adjusting some things as we move forward with the tight end position, and I think we have excellent competition," coach Mike McCarthy said. "But Bubba Franks is a veteran football player, and we expect him to contribute to our football team."


Ferguson, 27, also could contribute to an offense that needs playmakers. But he's recovering from the mid-foot ailment that landed him on injured reserve in 2006, and he never has been a full-time starter in six NFL seasons.


If Ferguson can fit in with the rookies and young players set to rotate behind Donald Driver and Greg Jennings, his $1.8 million base salary (and $2.5 million cap number) isn't unreasonable.


"I'm not necessarily re-establishing myself — I'm establishing myself," said Ferguson, who says he's added 15 pounds of muscle to his 6-foot-1 frame. "I feel like I'm fresh and healthy and faster and all that than I ever was before."


Then there's the highest-paid player of them all, Gbaja-Biamila, who is set to make a base salary of $5 million — more than the total compensation of top linemen Ryan Pickett and Aaron Kampman combined.


Coaches aren't expecting Gbaja-Biamila, 29, to reclaim the starting job he relinquished to Jenkins in December. But they know he's one of two players on the roster with proven double-digit sack potential, despite recording a career-low six in 2006.


"He can still be that guy," defensive ends coach Carl Hairston said. "He's not rusty. He's still got the ability of one of the top pass-rushers in the league. He has to think that he's not a backup."


Built for the future

It seems more likely the Packers would dump an expendable backup like tackle Kevin Barry (cap number: $1.235 million) than any current or former starters, though kicker Dave Rayner and punter Jon Ryan face competitions for their respective jobs.


In late August, the Packers were about $7.6 million under the cap. Barring a major free-agent signing, they'll be in the same neighborhood this fall.


The cap is expected to rise to $115 million or more in 2008, and the Packers have between $95 million and $100 million in commitments, a number that is certain to drop during fall cuts. So, Thompson is poised to enter a third straight offseason with more than $20 million to spend — and $12 million more if quarterback Brett Favre retires — though he's proven it's possible to fill cap space without spending a lot of cash.


Defensive tackle Corey Williams is the only player of consequence who can become an unrestricted free agent. A multiyear deal with running back Vernand Morency, set to be a restricted free agent after this season, could be a priority if he wins the starting job.


"In order to make this a continuing process so you always have a little flexibility in that regard, (the key) is to be able to plan in advance, to be able to seek out core players on your team and try to do contracts in advance," Thompson said. "It's good, quite frankly, for the player and for the organization. I think that's an ideal situation."


Chances are Manuel, Franks, Ferguson and Gbaja-Biamila won't breathe any easier if they make the roster. Their combined cap number for 2008 is more than $17 million.

[Scott Campbell]

Look's like I was right about how much the cap was going up to next year. It also backs up my point about why teams where spending the amount of cash that they did. So any of you making the case of over-spending and how it would hurt future cap considerations were wrong. :P


Thank you Mike Sherman. How's the weather down in Houston?

[Bretsky]

Anybody who uses the overpaid cliches are neglecting the changing times IMO. Salaries are going up with the cap.

It's fine if your GM does not want to play I guess, but I'd hope we hold the GM accountable for improvement either way.

He'll find ways to use up the cap space, as Patler has noted many times, by the end of next season.

I'm sure we'll be set up wonderfully cap wise for 2008 as well; hey maybe we can participate in free agency while wages go up another tier that year :idea: :wink:

Maybe not; maybe they'll all be overpaid :lol:

[Patler]

Look's like I was right about how much the cap was going up to next year. It also backs up my point about why teams where spending the amount of cash that they did. So any of you making the case of over-spending and how it would hurt future cap considerations were wrong. :P

The cap is expected to rise to $115 million or more in 2008, and the Packers have between $95 million and $100 million in commitments, a number that is certain to drop during fall cuts. So, Thompson is poised to enter a third straight offseason with more than $20 million to spend — and $12 million more if quarterback Brett Favre retires — though he's proven it's possible to fill cap space without spending a lot of cash.

The unofficial announcement from the NFL to the salary cap managers in December was that 2008 would be $116 million. The salary cap goes up almost every year. Percentage-wise this is not an unusual increase.

[Patler]

Look's like I was right about how much the cap was going up to next year. It also backs up my point about why teams where spending the amount of cash that they did. So any of you making the case of over-spending and how it would hurt future cap considerations were wrong. :P



Teams can and still will overspend. Salaries will continue to escalate as the cap goes up. Even the veteran and rookie minimums are going up. The issues facing the Packers in the future will be two-fold:

First, all of the rookies from the last three drafts will very soon be looking for their first big money contracts. Whereas the last couple years the Packers have had only a couple of their own players entering free agency each year, the number of their own players they will be looking to re-sign could increase significantly in the next couple years.

Secondly, at some point in the not too distant future hopefully they will have players to re-sign at the big dollar positions who will be good enough to merit big contracts. QB, RB, CB, LT all will soon or currently need filling. If they find the players of the future for those, it will be expensive to sign the players to long term deals.

Having some extra cap space in 2009-2011 could be quite important long-term. It would be nice to not have to lose good players like Wolf did with Taylor, Timmerman, Paup, Evans, Cecil etc. If Colledge, Spitz, Hawk, Blackmon and Collins develope to the same degree, it would be nice to be able to keep all of them.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Well stated, patler.

[Joemailman]

According to PackerChatters, the following players have contracts expiring after the 2008 and 2009 seasons:

2008: Tauscher, Fergy, Poppinga, Underwood, Montgomery, Ryan

2009: KGB, Clifton, Driver, Kampman, Pickett, Rodgers, Collins, Colledge, Jennings, Hodge, Spitz, Coston, Blackmon, R. Martin, Moll, Jolly, Culver.

TT will want to have plenty of cap space heading into 2008 so he can start to offer extensions to those deemed worry of a long term contract.

[Scott Campbell]

The unofficial announcement from the NFL to the salary cap managers in December was that 2008 would be $116 million. The salary cap goes up almost every year. Percentage-wise this is not an unusual increase.


Kind like if I go out on a limb and predict the sun will come up tomorrow. Then I come back in here bragging that I'm the new Nostradamus.

[Scott Campbell]

Anybody who uses the overpaid cliches are neglecting the changing times IMO. Salaries are going up with the cap.



Let me put this in a way that even a mortgage broker can understand. Sure your paycheck is going up. But if that ARM goes up faster than your ability to pay, you can find yourself in a world of hurt.

[Bretsky]

Anybody who uses the overpaid cliches are neglecting the changing times IMO. Salaries are going up with the cap.



Let me put this in a way that even a mortgage broker can understand. Sure your paycheck is going up. But if that ARM goes up faster than your ability to pay, you can find yourself in a world of hurt.


I'm not a mortgage broker.

And if people understood when they should get an ARM and when not they would not have the problems occuring right now. You can equate that understanding and make whatever simile you choose to with the Turtle.

[LL2]

According to PackerChatters, the following players have contracts expiring after the 2008 and 2009 seasons:

2008: Tauscher, Fergy, Poppinga, Underwood, Montgomery, Ryan

2009: KGB, Clifton, Driver, Kampman, Pickett, Rodgers, Collins, Colledge, Jennings, Hodge, Spitz, Coston, Blackmon, R. Martin, Moll, Jolly, Culver.

TT will want to have plenty of cap space heading into 2008 so he can start to offer extensions to those deemed worry of a long term contract.

Wow! Quite a few will be free after 2009. At least we have a couple years to see if they will be worth resigning, but TT might be half of them. If he doesn't go for any FA in 2008 he better be extending contract on the good ones.

[The Shadow]

The unofficial announcement from the NFL to the salary cap managers in December was that 2008 would be $116 million. The salary cap goes up almost every year. Percentage-wise this is not an unusual increase.


Kind like if I go out on a limb and predict the sun will come up tomorrow. Then I come back in here bragging that I'm the new Nostradamus.


Well done!

[BallHawk]

First, all of the rookies from the last three drafts will very soon be looking for their first big money contracts. Whereas the last couple years the Packers have had only a couple of their own players entering free agency each year

That's because most of the rookies that Sherman drafted where gone after two years. There was nobody there to re-sign. :wink:

[bbbffl66]

If these guys don't pan out, none will be worth resigning. Then we'll have a whole NEW crop of 1st and 2nd year players making up the majority of the team. Again. TT's job rests on his draft classes being worth resigning to really big contracts.

[Patler]

If these guys don't pan out, none will be worth resigning. Then we'll have a whole NEW crop of 1st and 2nd year players making up the majority of the team. Again. TT's job rests on his draft classes being worth resigning to really big contracts.

Isn't that the case with EVERY GM's draft classes? If they don't work out, they aren't worth resigning, and the GM drafts players to take their places.
There is nothing different about the Packers or TT in that regard.

[pack4to84]

I wish we could trade cap space for draft picks. Then TT would have like 3 first rounders next season.

[Charles Woodson]

If these guys don't pan out, none will be worth resigning. Then we'll have a whole NEW crop of 1st and 2nd year players making up the majority of the team. Again. TT's job rests on his draft classes being worth resigning to really big contracts.

Isn't that the case with EVERY GM's draft classes? If they don't work out, they aren't worth resigning, and the GM drafts players to take their places.
There is nothing different about the Packers or TT in that regard.


except that the Gm shouldnt only rely on the draft. And i see what bbbffl66 is saying; if alot of these guys arent worth resigning, then we draft new players to take there spot and again like the past 2 years we will have alot of 1-2 year players.

[Packgator]

If these guys don't pan out, none will be worth resigning. Then we'll have a whole NEW crop of 1st and 2nd year players making up the majority of the team. Again. TT's job rests on his draft classes being worth resigning to really big contracts.

Isn't that the case with EVERY GM's draft classes? If they don't work out, they aren't worth resigning, and the GM drafts players to take their places.

If not enough of them "work out" then it is often the job of the "NEW" GM to draft players to take their places.

[Patler]

If these guys don't pan out, none will be worth resigning. Then we'll have a whole NEW crop of 1st and 2nd year players making up the majority of the team. Again. TT's job rests on his draft classes being worth resigning to really big contracts.

Isn't that the case with EVERY GM's draft classes? If they don't work out, they aren't worth resigning, and the GM drafts players to take their places.
There is nothing different about the Packers or TT in that regard.


except that the Gm shouldnt only rely on the draft. And i see what bbbffl66 is saying; if alot of these guys arent worth resigning, then we draft new players to take there spot and again like the past 2 years we will have alot of 1-2 year players.

So how many FAs should he have signed, and at what experience level?

If you can sign some decent 4 year vets, like Pickett, it can turn out OK because they have potentially another 6 years or so of decent play before they start to decline, but how many of those are there available? Anyone already in their 6th-8th year will have to be replaced in 4 years or so anyway, so you haven't extended your longevity at all. If he had signed Moss, even if he stayed, in 3-4 years they would be looking for a replacement anyway.

That's why I think free agent signings today have to be very selective. Getting a guy like Pickett is a very good deal. Decent player, decent cost AND absent injury could fill a position for at least 6 years, maybe a few more. Selectively signing someone like Woodson fills a critical need, but certainly is no long term answer. All he does is buy you a few years to draft a replacement or sign a much younger veteran.

I've said all along, the critical time for me in developing an opinion of TT will be when the team gets close with all the drafted "kids" and a few key FAs could push them into true playoff contention. Will he be just that little bit more aggressive to bring a couple in? I don't think anyone can say for sure at this point.

[Fritz]

Anybody who uses the overpaid cliches are neglecting the changing times IMO. Salaries are going up with the cap.

It's fine if your GM does not want to play I guess, but I'd hope we hold the GM accountable for improvement either way.

He'll find ways to use up the cap space, as Patler has noted many times, by the end of next season.

I'm sure we'll be set up wonderfully cap wise for 2008 as well; hey maybe we can participate in free agency while wages go up another tier that year :idea: :wink:

Maybe not; maybe they'll all be overpaid :lol:

He does use the cap space, it's true. It's just that often he uses it in ways that are not as splashy as they might be. It can be disconcerting, when all the media trumpets buying - not just in sports, but everywhere - as the answer to all questions.

I think it would behoove the organization to hand out Ben Franklins to all the anxious fans, to compensate them for their stress during TT's inactivity in free agency.

[Bretsky]

Anybody who uses the overpaid cliches are neglecting the changing times IMO. Salaries are going up with the cap.

It's fine if your GM does not want to play I guess, but I'd hope we hold the GM accountable for improvement either way.

He'll find ways to use up the cap space, as Patler has noted many times, by the end of next season.

I'm sure we'll be set up wonderfully cap wise for 2008 as well; hey maybe we can participate in free agency while wages go up another tier that year :idea: :wink:

Maybe not; maybe they'll all be overpaid :lol:

He does use the cap space, it's true. It's just that often he uses it in ways that are not as splashy as they might be. It can be disconcerting, when all the media trumpets buying - not just in sports, but everywhere - as the answer to all questions.

I think it would behoove the organization to hand out Ben Franklins to all the anxious fans, to compensate them for their stress during TT's inactivity in free agency.


Well, I'd rather have him use up the cap space with other means than frontloading deals for the bettement of the future........but......do you want my address for the Ben Franklin's ? :lol: :lol: