Rookie pool discussion

[Rastak]

Okay guys, how does the NFL's rookie pool work for frontloading contracts?
I think it's relevent this year because both Green Bay and even more so Minnesota have loads of cap space right now. Front loading the #1 picks contract would make sense for both teams given the free cap space and injury history concerns.

Is this really feasibile with the rookie pool or would frontloading eat up the pool RIGHT NOW and prevent a team from signing all it's picks? Perhaps a second year high base might also work somewhat if enough cap could be pushed back to next year via LTBE bonuses.

Thoughts? (Ecspecially Patler :) )

[Patler]

The CBA states it this way:


(a) No Club may enter into Player Contracts with Drafted Rookies that, standing alone or in the aggregate, provide for Salaries in the first League Year of such Player contracts that would exceed the Club’s Rookie Allocation for that year.

All rookies' first year cap values have to be worked in under the "rookie cap" that the team has. That is one reason the Packers signed Hawk to a contract that gave him a bonus in year two of $2.3+ million.

[Rastak]

The CBA states it this way:


(a) No Club may enter into Player Contracts with Drafted Rookies that, standing alone or in the aggregate, provide for Salaries in the first League Year of such Player contracts that would exceed the Club’s Rookie Allocation for that year.

All rookies' first year cap values have to be worked in under the "rookie cap" that the team has. That is one reason the Packers signed Hawk to a contract that gave him a bonus in year two of $2.3+ million.


Thanks Patler, I figured that might be the case....so second year bonuses are the only way I guess.....

[pittstang5]

Have they announced what the rookie pool is for each team yet?

[Patler]

Have they announced what the rookie pool is for each team yet?

They must have. It normally comes out just before the draft. Several teams have signed rookies already, and I can't believe they would do it blindly.

[Rastak]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2862869


Team Picks Rookie Pool
Arizona 5 $4.186
Atlanta 11 $6.171
Baltimore 7 $3.374
Buffalo 7 $4.061
Carolina 8 $4.086
Chicago 9 $4.043
Cincinnati 7 $3.512
Cleveland 7 $5.674
Dallas 8 $3.540
Denver 4 $2.757
Detroit 8 $5.824
Green Bay 11 $4.907
Houston 7 $3.814
Indianapolis 9 $4.336
Jacksonville 11 $4.916
Kansas City 7 $3.432
Miami 10 $5.367
Minnesota 8 $4.840
New England 9 $3.683
New Orleans 7 $3.371
NY Giants 8 $3.870
NY Jets 4 $2.653
Oakland 11 $6.913
Philadelphia 8 $3.359
Pittsburgh 8 $4.256
St. Louis 8 $3.984
San Diego 8 $3.284
San Francisco 9 $5.420
Seattle 8 $3.007
Tampa Bay 10 $6.102
Tennessee 10 $4.602
Washington 5 $3.432

[Patler]

Team Picks Cash Rookie Pool
Arizona 5 $4.186
Atlanta 11 $6.171
Baltimore 7 $3.374
Buffalo 7 $4.061
Carolina 8 $4.086
Chicago 9 $4.043
Cincinnati 7 $3.512
Cleveland 7 $5.674
Dallas 8 $3.540
Denver 4 $2.757
Detroit 8 $5.824
Green Bay 11 $4.907
Houston 7 $3.814
Indianapolis 9 $4.336
Jacksonville 11 $4.916
Kansas City 7 $3.432
Miami 10 $5.367
Minnesota 8 $4.840
New England 9 $3.683
New Orleans 7 $3.371
NY Giants 8 $3.870
NY Jets 4 $2.653
Oakland 11 $6.913
Philadelphia 8 $3.359
Pittsburgh 8 $4.256
St. Louis 8 $3.984
San Diego 8 $3.284
San Francisco 9 $5.420
Seattle 8 $3.007
Tampa Bay 10 $6.102
Tennessee 10 $4.602
Washington 5 $3.432

You beat me to it! Just found the list. :(

:D

[Rastak]

They must have some strict algorithm they use.....

[Patler]

They must have some strict algorithm they use.....

When the rookie pool was first established they assigned a first year contract value to each spot in the draft, based on previous signings for several years. That was how the league-wide salary pool was determined. It now goes up every year by a percentage related to overall cap increases.

Each team's allotment of the overall league-wide pool is based on what draft positions they had. Teams with compensatory picks are granted an extra amount for each, depending on the draft position.

I've never figured out why it sometimes seems to take so long to negotiate the rookie contracts. There really isn't all that much that can be changed. Almost all are very similar to the same spot in the draft the previous year, increased by a small amount. QBs drafted later than expected in the first round are about the only ones who manage to negotiate "unusual" terms for their draft spot. Rodgers and Leinert did, and I expect Quinn will this year.

[pittstang5]

They must have some strict algorithm they use.....

When the rookie pool was first established they assigned a first year contract value to each spot in the draft, based on previous signings for several years. That was how the league-wide salary pool was determined. It now goes up every year by a percentage related to overall cap increases.

Each team's allotment of the overall league-wide pool is based on what draft positions they had. Teams with compensatory picks are granted an extra amount for each, depending on the draft position.

I've never figured out why it sometimes seems to take so long to negotiate the rookie contracts. There really isn't all that much that can be changed. Almost all are very similar to the same spot in the draft the previous year, increased by a small amount. QBs drafted later than expected in the first round are about the only ones who manage to negotiate "unusual" terms for their draft spot. Rodgers and Leinert did, and I expect Quinn will this year.

The amount the Packers can use seems low compared to the number of players they have to sign. But, like you stated, the amount is based on position of where the players were taken, etc.

[Scott Campbell]

I've never figured out why it sometimes seems to take so long to negotiate the rookie contracts.


I think some get hung up on length of term.

[Rastak]

I've never figured out why it sometimes seems to take so long to negotiate the rookie contracts.


I think some get hung up on length of term.


Also, agents are terrified the guy below his client will get a better deal and this will be used against him in recruiting clients. Really a goofy system.

[Patler]

I've never figured out why it sometimes seems to take so long to negotiate the rookie contracts.


I think some get hung up on length of term.


Also, agents are terrified the guy below his client will get a better deal and this will be used against him in recruiting clients. Really a goofy system.

Even the length of contract is limited. Basically now they argue over 3 years versus 4 years.

One of the excuses I have heard for it taking so long is that there really are very few agents who handle most of the rookies. Each has a lot of deals to finalize in a relatively short period of time. Each team only has one or two guys who negotiate on behalf of the team. Getting the two together can be a scheduling problem.

[Guiness]

Good luck to Cleveland with that number! Both of their 1st rounders are going to want that in signing bonus alone!

[Zool]

Good thing signing bonuses are pro-rated I guess.

[gureski]

Okay guys, how does the NFL's rookie pool work for frontloading contracts?
I think it's relevent this year because both Green Bay and even more so Minnesota have loads of cap space right now. Front loading the #1 picks contract would make sense for both teams given the free cap space and injury history concerns.

Is this really feasibile with the rookie pool or would frontloading eat up the pool RIGHT NOW and prevent a team from signing all it's picks? Perhaps a second year high base might also work somewhat if enough cap could be pushed back to next year via LTBE bonuses.

Thoughts? (Ecspecially Patler :) )

I don't think it's ever a good idea to front-load a rookie's contract. First, if they don't work out then the team will have invested a large portion of the contract prior to getting any return. It's not wise to front-load payments for services yet rendered in most anything in life, especially when you're talking about young men with various maturity levels. Since you don't know what you're getting from a rookie, why push more money into their hands early in the deal?

Second, if the player is any good, most rookie contracts will get redone before they expire. You save nothing if you end up having to redo the final years of the deal which is where the real cap value would come into play from front-loading the deal.

Third, from a risk standpoint, in the NFL contracts aren't guaranteed so a large cap number later in the deal is a safe bet for a team because they don't necessarily have to pay it. It's the ultimate flexibility. If the player stinks, (see J.Reynolds) then you just cut him and the cap number doesn't matter. If the player is good, then you extend the deal and end up reworking the cap number for the final year or two. Giving the money up front to a guy like Reynolds only makes a mistake worse because now you've screwed up on the evaluation of talent AND given him a chunk of money that you can't get back.

[Charles Woodson]

Good luck to Cleveland with that number! Both of their 1st rounders are going to want that in signing bonus alone!

But Quinn wont be, he was taken 25 or around there and he will have to suffer because of it