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woodbuck27
06-04-2007, 01:25 PM
http://www.sportsline.com/nfl/story/10205109

Overrated-underrated: Porter, Warren on opposite ends

May 31, 2007

By Pete Prisco
CBS SportsLine.com Senior Writer

A certain magazine known for a cover jinx put Joey Porter on its cover last year and called him the NFL's meanest man.

This would have been a better description: The NFL's most overrated player.

Porter signed a five-year, $32 million deal with the Miami Dolphins this spring as an unrestricted free agent. The Dolphins think he can be a pass-rush force, adding to an already talented defense.

Many personnel people and coaches I talked to think they're getting something else, which is a player who has more bark than bite.

Porter had seven sacks last season, but six of those came in three games, two in each of those games. That means in the other 11 games he played -- he missed two for injuries -- he had one sack.

"What's even more alarming about that," said an AFC personnel director, "is that he played a 3-4 outside linebacker. Those players are expected to get double-digits sacks at the least."

Porter turned 30 in March, which is even more reason for concern. Add it all up, and it's why he's the pick as my most overrated player in the NFL, which is something I've picked each of the past four years.

This isn't to pile on Porter, who was fined $1,000 this week for his role in a fight with Cincinnati Bengals tackle Levi Jones in a Las Vegas casino. Porter could still face sanctions from the league for that incident.

The flip side of an overrated player is the league's most underrated player.

So who's that lucky player?

It's New England defensive end Ty Warren.

In his fourth season in 2006, Warren had 7½ sacks and 84 tackles. It was his breakout season, and one that some said should have landed him in Hawaii for the Pro Bowl.

The problem is that Warren plays opposite Richard Seymour, who is one of the best defensive linemen in the league. Seymour gets most of the attention, which is why Warren doesn't.

But keep an eye on Warren this season. He might be ready to join Seymour in Hawaii.

Here are the underrated and overrated players for each of the league's 32 teams.

Arizona Cardinals

Overrated

RB Edgerrin James. Yes, he played behind a bad line last year when he struggled. But that's not the whole reason for his 3.2 average.

Underrated

LB Gerald Hayes. Now that Adrian Wilson has finally gone to the Pro Bowl, it's Hayes who gets the slot here. He was a force in the middle as a 4-3 middle linebacker, and should be just as good in the Cardinals' 3-4 defense.

Atlanta Falcons

Overrated

QB Michael Vick. Until he becomes a better pocket passer, he's always going to be in this spot. It can still happen for him, but it takes work. This is a huge year for him on the field -- if he stays there.

Underrated

DT Grady Jackson. Say all you want about his weight -- and he sure is big -- but he knows how to clog things up against the run. He does have to get healthy again.

Baltimore Ravens

Overrated

RB Willis McGahee. Blame the Bills line all you want, but this guy just hasn't performed like a star back.

Underrated

NT Kelly Gregg. He is a short keg-like body in the middle of the defense who helps keep the linebackers clean to flow to the football. He does the dirty work inside.

Buffalo Bills

Overrated

RT Langston Walker. It's hard to find one on this young team, but since they paid him money as a free agent he's the pick.

Underrated

LT Jason Peters. He's close to being a Pro Bowl player. This converted tight end has a ton of potential.

Carolina Panthers

Overrated

MLB Dan Morgan. The tools are there, but he can't stay on the field. That puts him in this category.

Underrated

QB David Carr. He will take over as the team's starting quarterback at some point and show the Houston Texans they made a big mistake.

Chicago Bears

Overrated

S Adam Archuleta. He's never been effective as a cover player. He's basically a glorified linebacker. Watch teams attack him in pass coverage.

Underrated

DT Tank Johnson. Off-the-field problems aside, Johnson is a heck of a player when he's on the field. The Bears need him in the worst way.

Cincinnati Bengals

Overrated

CB Deltha O'Neal. He went to the Pro Bowl in 2005, but didn't come close to getting there a year ago. He could be pushed for his starting job now.

Underrated

DE Robert Geathers. He is a situational pass rusher with speed off the corner. That's why the Bengals made re-signing him a priority.

Cleveland Browns

Overrated

OLB Willie McGinest. He doesn't have much left and that started to show up last season after the Browns paid him big money as a free agent.

Underrated

S Sean Jones. He emerged as a top-notch safety last season, showing why the Browns drafted him in the second round in 2004. He had 111 tackles and five interceptions.

Dallas Cowboys

Overrated

QB Tony Romo. It's way too early to put him as a top 10 quarterback, which some have done. He sure didn't look like it at the end of last season.

Underrated

CB Terence Newman. His not going to the Pro Bowl last year was a crime. He is a top-notch cover corner.

Denver Broncos

Overrated

DT Gerard Warren. In fairness to Warren, he played with dislocated toes last season. But he still didn't play like he did in 2005. Of course, John Lynch could fill this spot every year.

Underrated

LG Ben Hamilton. He has taken over as the team's best offensive lineman. He's a tough, physical player whose best football is still ahead of him.

Detroit Lions

Overrated

G Damien Woody. He hasn't played well since signing with the Lions as a free agent and now he might go to the bench.

Underrated

QB Jon Kitna. Maybe he's not the long-term answer, but he got the job done last season for Mike Martz. He knows where to go with the football.

Green Bay Packers

Overrated

TE Bubba Franks. His career has gone down the toilet in a hurry. This former first-round pick is now fighting for a job.

Underrated

DE Cullen Jenkins. His emergence as a defensive end will allow the Packers to make Kabeer Gbaja-Biamila a situational pass rusher.

Houston Texans

Overrated

RB Ahman Green. In his last 34 starts, Green has nine rushes of 20 yards or more. In 2003, he had 15 alone. The Texans paid him way too much money at his age.

Underrated

CB Dunta Robinson. His silky smooth cover skills get lost because the defense has struggled at times.

Indianapolis Colts

Overrated

DT Anthony McFarland. It was tough finding an overrated player on this team, but McFarland might be it. He did nothing during the regular season, but did show up in the playoffs. Maybe that says something about why he's here.

Underrated

TE Dallas Clark. His versatility is so key to the Colts offense. He can flex out like a receiver and create match-up problems.

Jacksonville Jaguars

Overrated

DE Paul Spicer. The team talks up his effort, but what does he really do? He needs to be replaced.

Underrated

DT John Henderson. For whatever reason, he doesn't get the due he deserves. Maybe it's because he plays next to Marcus Stroud.

Kansas City Chiefs

Overrated

CB Ty Law. He's living off the past. He has slowed down and it shows. Even in the Chiefs' Cover-2 defense, that shows up.

Underrated

DE Jared Allen. If he can stay clear of off-the-field problems, he will cash in big next year as a free agent.

Miami Dolphins

Overrated

LB Joey Porter. And it isn't even close. Why they paid him all that money is a great mystery.

Underrated

S Yeremiah Bell. When he was inserted into the starting lineup in the sixth game last season, the defense became better. He's a good, solid tackler.

Minnesota Vikings

Overrated

LT Bryant McKinnie. He gives up too many sacks. He's never lived up to the hype as a first-round pick.

Underrated

LB E.J. Henderson. He had his best season last year and now moves back from the outside to the middle. He struggled as a middle backer earlier in his career, but he's better suited for it now.

New England Patriots

Overrated

LB Tedy Bruschi. He has slowed down, and that showed up in a big way in the playoff loss to the Colts. He doesn't have it anymore, and is living on his reputation.

Underrated

DE Ty Warren. Keep a close eye on him. His Pro Bowl time is coming.

New Orleans Saints

Overrated

CB Mike McKenzie. When he wants to be good, he's good. But he has too many lapses to be an elite player.

Underrated

G Jahri Evans. As a rookie, he didn't give up a sack. That's high marks for a young lineman.

New York Giants

Overrated

CB Sam Madison. Once upon a time he was a great man cover corner. You'd never know it now.

Underrated

DT Fred Robbins. He started all 16 games, getting 62 tackles and 5½ sacks. He's a good, steady player who doesn't get much due.

New York Jets

Overrated

QB Chad Pennington. Can he be a Super Bowl quarterback? I doubt it. He threw 17 touchdowns and 16 interceptions. He's just okay.

Underrated

S Kerry Rhodes. Much like Adrian Wilson of the Cardinals, his time in the spotlight will eventually come. He's too good a player for that not to happen.

Oakland Raiders

Overrated

RB Dominic Rhodes. Yes, he had a nice Super Bowl. And he did nicely splitting time with Joseph Addai. But that's all he is, a spot player.

Underrated

CB Nnamdi Asomugha. This kid has developed into one of the best cover corners in the league. He was a Pro Bowl snub last year.

Philadelphia Eagles

Overrated

MLB Jeremiah Trotter. He doesn't get to the football, and it shows in the run defense. His best days are long behind him.

Underrated

C Jamaal Jackson. Playing on the best line in the league, he doesn't get the Pro Bowl attention. But it could come this year,

Pittsburgh Steelers

Overrated

G Alan Faneca. He's a nice run blocker, but he struggles in pass protection. The Steelers will make the wise move not paying him a new deal.

Underrated

DE Brett Keisel. He always seems to be around the quarterback. This year, the Steelers plan to use some special defenses where he will line up as rover.

St. Louis Rams

Overrated

TE Randy McMichael. He's OK, but he's not nearly as good as his reputation. Miami wouldn't have let him go if he was.

Underrated

CB Fakhir Brown. Defensive coordinator Jim Haslett had him in New Orleans and wanted him in St. Louis. Brown is a much better corner than he's given credit for being.

San Diego Chargers

Overrated

QB Philip Rivers. This being nitpicky because I really like Rivers. But I've seen him ranked as a top five quarterback already. That's a bit quick. He can get there this season, but not yet. There aren't a lot of candidates on the Chargers for this spot.

Underrated

DE Igor Olshansky. He tends to get overlooked on a line with Jamal Williams and Luis Castillo, but he's right up there with them.

San Francisco 49ers

Overrated

WR Darrell Jackson. If they think he's going to cure their receiver problems, they are wrong. He's not better than Antonio Bryant, the guy they let go. Jackson drops a lot of passes.

Underrated

LB Brandon Moore. He had 6½ sacks last year, four games with 10 or more tackles, including the last three, and yet you'd be hard-pressed for people on the East Coast to know his name. He's a heck of a player.

Seattle Seahawks

Overrated

WR Deion Branch. He's a nice player, but he wasn't worth what the Seahawks traded and paid to get him. Is he really a No. 1 receiver?

Underrated

WR D.J. Hackett. He got a chance to play last season because of injuries, starting five games, and showed some nice skills. He caught 45 passes and had four touchdown catches, the same as Branch, who started 13 games.

Tampa Bay Buccaneers

Overrated

QB Jeff Garcia. He played well for the Eagles last year, but is he really any better than Chris Simms? We'll find out. I doubt it.

Underrated

DE Greg Spires. He doesn't get the attention Simeon Rice gets, but he is one of those effort guys all defenses need.

Tennessee Titans

Overrated

QB Vince Young. Is it crazy to put a second-year player in this spot? Maybe. But he isn't close to being the quarterback some say he is. He can't pass the football consistently yet, but most would make you think otherwise. Give him time.

Underrated

LT Michael Roos. He isn't Pro Bowl caliber yet, but this young player has a chance to be a nice starting player for a long time.

Washington Redskins

Overrated

WR Antwaan Randle El. Is he anything more than a good No. 3 receiver? The Redskins paid him way too much money.

Underrated

DT Kedric Golston. He won a job last year and played well inside as a rookie. He has a chance to develop into a quality defensive tackle. He might never be a Pro Bowl player, but he will be a consistent starter.

Merlin
06-04-2007, 01:36 PM
Atlanta Falcons

Overrated

QB Michael Vick. Until he becomes a better pocket passer, he's always going to be in this spot. It can still happen for him, but it takes work. This is a huge year for him on the field -- if he stays there.

Underrated

DT Grady Jackson. Say all you want about his weight -- and he sure is big -- but he knows how to clog things up against the run. He does have to get healthy again.

You have to be friggin kidding me! Until he becomes???? HE IS A NEVER WAS....

I like Grady, but he can't stay on the field long enough to be considered underrated!

HarveyWallbangers
06-04-2007, 01:59 PM
I actually think this is a pretty good list.

CaliforniaCheez
06-04-2007, 02:42 PM
Pete Prisco's opinion is worth about as much as the average poster here.

The Leaper
06-04-2007, 02:56 PM
David Carr underrated?

He sucks...the guy simply makes HORRIBLE decisions on the field. I've seen plenty of film on him where he has guys open all over the field and simply can't unload the football.

Whether he is just dumb or whether the horrible Texans OL allowed his brain to get beaten out of him...he's toast.

MadtownPacker
06-04-2007, 08:34 PM
David Carr underrated?

He sucks...the guy simply makes HORRIBLE decisions on the field. I've seen plenty of film on him where he has guys open all over the field and simply can't unload the football.

Whether he is just dumb or whether the horrible Texans OL allowed his brain to get beaten out of him...he's toast.
Look at what happened in 2005 to one of the NFLs greatest QBs ever when he had a shitty OL.

29 INTs and a 4-12 record!

Well that is how Carr had it every game since his rookie season in houston. The texans decision to pick up Tony Bosselli in the expansion draft and his failure to make it on the field and lead their OL doomed Carr from the start. He never had any protection and is currently of shell of the QB he was at Fresno State (where I saw just about all his games). He is not lost and when he gets his shot in Carolina, and he will get his shot, he will regain his confidence.

Then you will see the guy the texans drafted. Not the guy they failed to build a team around.

wist43
06-05-2007, 07:29 AM
I don't think Franks is "overrated"... he's really not rated at all.

Fits in perfect with TT's pedestrian vision for the offense though.

KYPack
06-05-2007, 07:38 AM
David Carr underrated?

He sucks...the guy simply makes HORRIBLE decisions on the field. I've seen plenty of film on him where he has guys open all over the field and simply can't unload the football.

Whether he is just dumb or whether the horrible Texans OL allowed his brain to get beaten out of him...he's toast.
Look at what happened in 2005 to one of the NFLs greatest QBs ever when he had a shitty OL.

29 INTs and a 4-12 record!

Well that is how Carr had it every game since his rookie season in houston. The texans decision to pick up Tony Bosselli in the expansion draft and his failure to make it on the field and lead their OL doomed Carr from the start. He never had any protection and is currently of shell of the QB he was at Fresno State (where I saw just about all his games). He is not lost and when he gets his shot in Carolina, and he will get his shot, he will regain his confidence.

Then you will see the guy the texans drafted. Not the guy they failed to build a team around.

Well, well, well. The Mex knows some ball, anyhow.

No QB would've performed behind the Tex line. Carr has a helluva lot of skills and can still be effective for the Panthers. He can ease in behind Jake and will be a good QB again.

Joemailman
06-05-2007, 08:08 AM
Imagine being Damien Woody. You play for the Lions, and somebody says you're overrated. :shock:

OS PA
06-05-2007, 08:34 AM
David Carr underrated?

He sucks...the guy simply makes HORRIBLE decisions on the field. I've seen plenty of film on him where he has guys open all over the field and simply can't unload the football.

Whether he is just dumb or whether the horrible Texans OL allowed his brain to get beaten out of him...he's toast.

If Favre weren't around, this kid would be talked about as the Iron Man of Football. In five years as a Texan, Carr started 60 out of 64 possible games, in those 60 games he was sacked a whopping 249 times. Too put that into perspective, in those five years Favre was sacked 84 times, Peyton Manning was sacked 85 times, and for even more perspective the Lions in that five year span allowed their QB's to be sacked 186 times, or 63 less times than Carr got hit. The kid had some major guts to go out there and take all of those sacks. Like Mad said, a bad line can make even the best QB's look crappy.

In his first two seasons, Carr averaged a mediocre 54.55 quarterback rating and threw 18 touchdowns to 28 interceptions. This was expected of him, considering he was given a piss poor expansion team and spent half of his time on his back.

In his remaining three seasons as a Texan, Carr averaged a 63.33 quarterback rating, which is actually a good rating as compared to Brett Favres 60.46 qb rating and Peyton Manning's 66.33 qb rating during the same three years.

Over those three seasons Carr threw 41 touchdowns to 37 interceptions, which averages out to 1 interception for every 1.1 touchdowns. Over those three seasons Manning threw an ungodly 108/29 or 1 interception for every 3.7 passes and Favre threw 68/64 or 1 interception for every 1.06 passes.


The point i'm trying to prove is that Carr is not a terrible quarterback, he isn't even a bad quarterback, he's actually a pretty good player, and if he were given an NFL team to work with he would be able to prove how good he actually is.

Fritz
06-05-2007, 08:46 AM
This list looks like something someone put together by simply studying little SI team reports for a few days. I see no names here that are illuminating. Lots of regurgitation.

MJZiggy
06-05-2007, 08:50 AM
At this point, I'm willing to read even regurgitation...

pbmax
06-05-2007, 09:11 AM
Carr's team unleashed on him after it was clear he was going somewhere else. Several team officials talked about how he held the ball too long, couldn't handle Kubiak's playbook, and how the coach lost confidence in the QB. The new regime thought he was a lost cause.

I think Jaws or someone did a film breakdown on him that demonstrated, at least in certain cases, he was his own worst enemy handling pressure. Drifting after the first read, stepping left or right when he could have bounced up in the pocket, etc..

That is one of the things I think Favre still does best, move in the pocket just enough to get the throw off. And not move so you compromise your lineman or get into more trouble. He's not a runner, but he has made more than his share of guys miss.

I'd be surprised, if this assessment isn't just self-serving, if Carr found greater success elsewhere. Someone, was it PFT(?), wondered if Tedford actually gave better QB coaching than some NFL staffs. Given that the college offensive game has gotten way more complex in the last twenty years (starting with Schnellenberger and Miami), that might be true.

Although Kubiak was thought to be the next QB guru, Elway may have skewed perceptions. Kubiak and Shanahan struggled with Griese and Plummer.

Fritz
06-05-2007, 10:02 AM
Yes, it will be interesting to see how Cutler develops this year.

By the way, Zig, that's my favorite avatar of yours...

The Leaper
06-05-2007, 10:39 AM
I think Jaws or someone did a film breakdown on him that demonstrated, at least in certain cases, he was his own worst enemy handling pressure. Drifting after the first read, stepping left or right when he could have bounced up in the pocket, etc..

I think I saw the exact same thing.

In one instance, the TE and slot WR ran 5 yard curl routes underneath and were both WIDE OPEN 8-10 yards from Carr on a short pass drop. He didn't spot EITHER guy, was looking downfield and took a sack a couple seconds later. His presence in the pocket was disturbing at best...I was shocked at how bad Carr was in terms of making crucial errors, even with years of experience.

While I agree that Houston did little to help Carr in terms of the OL, he did have weapons at the skill positions to utilize. However, Carr never seemed to develop any sense of timing or ability to read defenses quickly enough to get rid of the ball.

ANY quarterback can succeed when they have lots of time in the pocket. The ultimate test is how they do when they need to quickly read a defense, find the open receivers, and deliver the ball under pressure. Time and time again, Carr failed in Houston...despite having some very capable receiving targets to utilize. I don't see how that is suddenly going to change because of a new system.

And Favre failed in 2005 because of a lack of weapons to utilize...not because the OL was so horrific. Carr had weapons in Houston. He failed to take advantage of them. Favre would do just fine in Houston...because he can read a defense and get rid of the ball quickly.

BallHawk
06-05-2007, 10:52 AM
David Carr underrated?

He sucks...the guy simply makes HORRIBLE decisions on the field. I've seen plenty of film on him where he has guys open all over the field and simply can't unload the football.

Whether he is just dumb or whether the horrible Texans OL allowed his brain to get beaten out of him...he's toast.

Hmm. It puzzles me how he makes horrible decisions, yet lead the league in completion percentage. Can you explain this for me?

The Leaper
06-05-2007, 11:46 AM
Hmm. It puzzles me how he makes horrible decisions, yet lead the league in completion percentage. Can you explain this for me?

Because his best pass is dumping off into the flat as soon as he feels pressure...which probably is the highest percentage pass to throw.

Can you explain for me how you can complete 68% of your passes and still throw more INTs than TDs?

Carr sucks. Just accept it. At least you won't have to incur the cost of a cap hit like the Texans had to. :D

MadtownPacker
06-05-2007, 11:56 AM
And Favre failed in 2005 because of a lack of weapons to utilize...not because the OL was so horrific. Carr had weapons in Houston. He failed to take advantage of them. Favre would do just fine in Houston...because he can read a defense and get rid of the ball quickly.
Thats funny cuz I could have swore I saw him getting bumrushed every other play by the DL. As for Carr having all these "weapons", who besides WR Andre Johnson are you referring to? Can't say Carr didn't get Johnson the ball cuz he has made the Probowl (twice?) with Carr passing to him. So he used the weapon as much as possible.

Like I said, he is shellshocked and needs to regain his confidence. 2005 Favre would have done better in Houston but 1992 Favre would have likely suffered the same fate.

Tarlam!
06-05-2007, 12:02 PM
...but 1992 Favre would have likely suffered the same fate.

That's bold!

I am not an experienced enough fan to argue, but my gut says, I disagree.

MadtownPacker
06-05-2007, 12:10 PM
...but 1992 Favre would have likely suffered the same fate.

That's bold!

I am not an experienced enough fan to argue, but my gut says, I disagree.Your gut also tells you to drink until you puke and pass out so what good is that. :lol:

What I meant is that Carr didnt get to develop into a system cuz he was too busy running for his life. Now when he feels any kind of pressure he folds. But I say he can be saved, Carolina agrees. :lol:

Favre was pupil to a guy (Walrus) who mentored several of his assistant coaches into head coaching gigs. He wasn't thrust into the starting role of an expansion team with expectations to be it's savior.

Tarlam!
06-05-2007, 12:17 PM
Coupla points:

Favre wasn't a first overall pick, plus he had a garbage time year in Atlanta.

Both probably gave him a huge chip that ultimately propelled him to success. Those, for me crucial observations. still make me believe Favre would have reached greatness in Housten.

I think it'd be a safer bet to say, had Carr gone in the second round, and had he been relegated to the dungeons of a depth chart for a year,then found love from a new team (Favre cost us a 1st rounder after all) he would not be considered a bust by some today since he might of actually proven he can play in the nfl.

]{ilr]3
06-05-2007, 12:18 PM
Atlanta Falcons

Overrated

QB Michael Vick. Until he becomes a better pocket passer, he's always going to be in this spot. It can still happen for him, but it takes work. This is a huge year for him on the field -- if he stays there.

Underrated

DT Grady Jackson. Say all you want about his weight -- and he sure is big -- but he knows how to clog things up against the run. He does have to get healthy again.

IYou have to be friggin kidding me! Until he becomes???? HE IS A NEVER WAS....

I like Grady, but he can't stay on the field long enough to be considered underrated!


always thought Grady was a great player, just not worth the baggage and trouble he brings. Seems like he is currently trying to sue the Falcons for something erroneous (speling? :) ) !

The Leaper
06-05-2007, 12:20 PM
Thats funny cuz I could have swore I saw him getting bumrushed every other play by the DL.

I didn't say that Favre had a good OL. I was pointing out that Favre was effectively able to avoid sacks by quickly reading defenses and getting rid of the ball. While Carr's OL certainly was ridiculous, Carr rarely helped himself by showing no ability to read the rush and step up in the pocket and by taking far too long to read the defense and find the openings.


As for Carr having all these "weapons", who besides WR Andre Johnson are you referring to?

Eric Moulds wasn't a horrible #2 WR last year, although the #2 guy previous to that was typically pretty bad. Bradford was #2 for awhile...not sure who else stunk it up as well. Carr had pretty decent TEs in the past to work with as well...Miller comes to mind, and Daniels was solid last year as a rookie. Dominick Davis was a pretty good RB when healthy. It isn't like Carr was shackled with a team like Tim Couch was...devoid of any offensive talent whatsoever.

Overall, Carr has had more to work with in the last 2-3 years than Favre has had.


Like I said, he is shellshocked and needs to regain his confidence. 2005 Favre would have done better in Houston but 1992 Favre would have likely suffered the same fate.

Did Favre have some kind of amazing OL in front of him in 1992? Hell no. He had a weak OL and had nothing to work with on offense other than Sharpe. He still put up better numbers than Carr ever has.

Carr very well may be shellshocked...but he also hasn't shown much development in his career either. He holds the ball too long, he doesn't make quick, decisive reads and he now has no confidence. The chances of any team getting Carr to rise like a phoenix from the ashes is slim to none.

MadtownPacker
06-05-2007, 12:26 PM
Coupla points:

Favre wasn't a first overall pick, plus he had a garbage time year in Atlanta.

Both probably gave him a huge chip that ultimately propelled him to success. Those, for me crucial observations. still make me believe Favre would have reached greatness in Housten.

I think it'd be a safer bet to say, had Carr gone in the second round, and had he been relegated to the dungeons of a depth chart for a year,then found love from a new team (Favre cost us a 1st rounder after all) he would not be considered a bust by some today since he might of actually proven he can play in the nfl.Thats exactly what Im saying you kangaroo murderer!!

Expectations for Carr where incredibly high and having to meet then on a team that to this day is still looking for it's identitiy was damn near impossible.

Had he being drafted to a team that already had a decent core and failed I might agreed but that wasn't the case and bottom line is he got a raw deal.

Im curious to see how Schaub does this season.

Tarlam!
06-05-2007, 12:36 PM
That's funny how I get labelled a Kangaroo murderer when you own a website that has a Kangaroo being killed by a rat as its logo.....

:twisted:

pbmax
06-05-2007, 01:09 PM
His average per completion was low, and his average per attempt was bad as well, even with a high completion percentage.

That's part of the debate in Houston. Was this the offense Kubiak dumbed down, or was this how Carr was reading the defense or feeling the heat?

Either way, with so many short gains from completions, the offense was moribund.



David Carr underrated?

He sucks...the guy simply makes HORRIBLE decisions on the field. I've seen plenty of film on him where he has guys open all over the field and simply can't unload the football.

Whether he is just dumb or whether the horrible Texans OL allowed his brain to get beaten out of him...he's toast.

Hmm. It puzzles me how he makes horrible decisions, yet lead the league in completion percentage. Can you explain this for me?

MadtownPacker
06-05-2007, 01:23 PM
Did Favre have some kind of amazing OL in front of him in 1992? Hell no. He had a weak OL and had nothing to work with on offense other than Sharpe. He still put up better numbers than Carr ever has.

Carr very well may be shellshocked...but he also hasn't shown much development in his career either. He holds the ball too long, he doesn't make quick, decisive reads and he now has no confidence. The chances of any team getting Carr to rise like a phoenix from the ashes is slim to none.In no way am I saying Carr is where Favre was at in the same stage of his career. Just using him as more of a measuring stick by saying if the OL sucks it has a huge effect on the QB.

What I bolded is exactly what I am saying. He HASN"T developed and that blame falls directly on the texans organization. FSU HC Pat Hill (who runs a prostyle offense) didn't have to dumb anything down for him. Yet Carr played great against big conference schools playing with players that would have also been considered lesser talent.

Something went wrong, I agree, but Carr has or maybe had the talent. With the right place and the right coach he still has a chance.

MJZiggy
06-05-2007, 01:27 PM
It will be interesting to see if he can get rid of the ghosts chasing him. I also am interested to see if Schaub can deal with it too. I know that Houston's line is supposed to be better, I just can't believe it took this long to do anything about their o-line situation.