Offseason update: Minnesota Vikings

[woodbuck27]

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/10212479

Offseason update: Minnesota Vikings

By Vic Carucci
National Editor, NFL.com

(June 4, 2007) --

This is what I like about the Minnesota Vikings' offseason moves:

They resisted the temptation to use the seventh overall pick of the draft on Brady Quinn, a quarterback who would need developing, and stuck to the plan of continuing to develop 2006 quarterback selection Tarvaris Jackson while also having him compete with Brooks Bollinger for the starting job.

The Vikings wisely spent their first-round choice on a player who could prove to be a dominant, game-changing force right away -- running back Adrian Peterson.

The former Oklahoma star has tremendous power to be highly effective on inside runs but also can turn the corner while barreling over smaller defenders on the perimeter. Peterson, who has spent part of his offseason workouts returning kicks, is a constant threat to go the distance with the ball. And the best part for the Vikings is that they won't have to rely solely on him for the strong rushing production necessary to help take pressure off of Jackson or Bollinger. They still have a solid alternative in Chester Taylor, who should be much fresher toward the end of the season than he was at the same point a year ago when carrying the load solo began to take its toll.

Second-rounder Sidney Rice, a former South Carolina standout, has the talent to quickly emerge as a dynamic playmaker at wide receiver.

The Vikings desperately need that to happen given how much Troy Williamson, another South Carolina product, struggled last season.

Rice has the size (6-foot-3-plus, 197 pounds), speed, athleticism, leaping ability and hands to make spectacular catches. He does, however, need to work at refining his skills to be more consistent and polished in all aspects of his game.

The Vikings got some help for their woeful pass coverage by signing free-agent safety Mike Doss, formerly of the Indianapolis Colts.

Doss is recovering well from a severe knee injury. He has participated, albeit on a limited basis, in offseason workouts. At the very least, Doss offers additional depth at safety, but he could end up providing more if his knee cooperates and he makes a splash in his playing opportunities.

Third-rounder Marcus McCauley (cornerback, Fresno State), fifth-rounder Aundrae Allison (wide receiver, East Carolina), and sixth-rounder Rufus Alexander (linebacker, Oklahoma) are capable of making solid contributions in the short term while eventually becoming solid starters.

The versatile McCauley will compete to become the Vikings' nickelback as a rookie but could ultimately end up at safety.

This is what concerns me:

The departure of defensive coordinator Mike Tomlin, who became head coach of the Pittsburgh Steelers, could have a significant negative impact.

Tomlin's replacement, former Indianapolis Colts assistant Leslie Frazier, has a thorough understanding of the scheme and was a student of Tony Dungy. But Tomlin's energy and charisma made him extremely popular with players that now must make a transition to a new coordinator.

The Vikings did not do enough to address their lack of an obvious No. 1 receiver.

Rice could emerge to fill that role, but he still is a rookie and the team needs at least one other receiver that would command respect from opposing defenses for being a constant big-play threat. Williamson certainly wasn't that guy last year. Free-agent newcomer Bobby Wade, formerly of the Tennessee Titans, primarily runs short and intermediate routes from the slot.

Kevin and Pat Williams continue to give the Vikings one of the best defensive-tackle tandems in the league; they were the primary reason the team allowed an NFL-low 61.6 rushing yards per game in '06.

But Minnesota's pass rush still leaves plenty to be desired. Unless right end Erasmus James makes a full recovery from a serious knee injury (a true sense of his progress won't be known until training camp), the Vikings don't figure to be a whole lot better in their ability to apply consistent pressure on the quarterback.

[HarveyWallbangers]

From my buddy who is a Vikings fan, here's some of the things he's hearing:

1) Tarvaris Jackson didn't look good at their recent mini-camp. "Deer-in-the-headlights" is the word used most often. He even heard that Bollinger got first string snaps later in the camp, but I don't know if that's because of Jackson's play or just mixing it up. He thinks it will be a long year for TJack, but is hoping for some improvement. Personally, I think it will be a long year for the Vikings if Jackson doesn't show major improvement. That position is just too important--especially for a team that's so one-dimensional on offense.
2) Troy Williamson looked solid in this camp. He was cautious because he's heard these reports before.
3) Sidney Rice looked really raw.
4) Adrian Peterson looks like all that and then some.
5) Chad Greenway looks healthy.

[woodbuck27]

From my buddy who is a Vikings fan, here's some of the things he's hearing:

1) Tarvaris Jackson didn't look good at their recent mini-camp. "Deer-in-the-headlights" is the word used most often. He even heard that Bollinger got first string snaps later in the camp, but I don't know if that's because of Jackson's play or just mixing it up. He thinks it will be a long year for TJack, but is hoping for some improvement. Personally, I think it will be a long year for the Vikings if Jackson doesn't show major improvement. That position is just too important--especially for a team that's so one-dimensional on offense.
2) Troy Williamson looked solid in this camp. He was cautious because he's heard these reports before.
3) Sidney Rice looked really raw.
4) Adrian Peterson looks like all that and then some.
5) Chad Greenway looks healthy.

Yea. The Vikings have alot of ? marks.

[mngolf19]

It sounds like Jackson needs to handle blitzes better and if he can do that, he'll be fine. But that is what they are giving him full-time now, blitzes, to learn it ASAP. And I can't tell you how much easier his job will be if only a guy like Williamson would catch the balls that were thrown to him last year.

[KYPack]

I still think Childress is their biggest weakness. He's been in the NFL, but he acts like a collge guy. Other than Vermeil and a few others, I don't think his approach will work.

I remember thinking we got the wrong guy at the start of last year, but I don't think Childress ( I can't remember any of his cool nicknames just now) will make it.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Childress is a concern amongst some Viking fans.

As far as Jackson, not every QB makes it, so just because they show Jackson a lot of blitzes doesn't mean he'll be fine. He may turn out okay. He may never make it. At this point, I don't think anybody can be remotely sure either way with him. It's the same as Rodgers. Jackson hasn't flashed anything more than Rodgers has flashed. They both run the ball pretty well, but are pretty frail looking and likely will get hurt running too much. They both have shown adequate arms, and nothing more. Rodgers is one year ahead in his development and came from a bigger school, so he's probably more ready to play--although he only played two years at California. They both scored adequately on their wonderlic. Jackson had a solid score, and Rodgers scored well. The coaching staff for both players say they are happy with their development. Other than that, we don't know much.

[mngolf19]

I still think Childress is their biggest weakness. He's been in the NFL, but he acts like a collge guy. Other than Vermeil and a few others, I don't think his approach will work.

I remember thinking we got the wrong guy at the start of last year, but I don't think Childress ( I can't remember any of his cool nicknames just now) will make it.

I still don't know about Childress. He obviously didn't handle many things well last year, but has shown a lot of personal changes so far this year. Guess we'll see. If they suck this year, he may be gone.

[oregonpackfan]

I was hoping to hear news that the Vikings were thinking of moving to Los Angeles. Get them out of the NFC-North! :)

[Rastak]

I was hoping to hear news that the Vikings were thinking of moving to Los Angeles. Get them out of the NFC-North! :)


I never realized you were so terrified of them!

I do agree with Harvey, I'm begining to realize that Jackson playing at a high level is a longshot at this point.

[oregonpackfan]

I was hoping to hear news that the Vikings were thinking of moving to Los Angeles. Get them out of the NFC-North! :)


I never realized you were so terrified of them!

.

Rastak,

As a Packer fan, I am hardly terrrified of the Vikings(The Packers did beat them twice last year, remember?)

I just don't like the Vikings, period.

[MadtownPacker]

I do agree with Harvey, I'm begining to realize that Jackson playing at a high level is a longshot at this point.
Great to hear your eyes are open!!!

Now by the time the season starts you will have realized that any viking playing at a high level is a longshot at any point. :lol:

[Rastak]

I was hoping to hear news that the Vikings were thinking of moving to Los Angeles. Get them out of the NFC-North! :)


I never realized you were so terrified of them!

.

Rastak,

As a Packer fan, I am hardly terrrified of the Vikings(The Packers did beat them twice last year, remember?)

I just don't like the Vikings, period.


Out of curiosity, did one of them F*** your wife or something? Disliking some team and hoping they move are different things.

We all have our teams to hate but I never actually hope they move or fold.


Think about it, it's a friggen game. There are LOTS of Packer fans in the world, would I really want them all to have broken hearts becasue the team folded or moved? NO. Why would you want that? I ask that question because I'm really curious......

[Tony Oday]

Vikings will be bad this year. Stuff happens. I think the worste move they did was drafting AP. I think he can be a solid RB with flashes of brilliance however there is NOBODY to throw the ball. Jackson more than likely will not make it and bollinger? C'mon. The difference between the Pack and the Vikes this year is the favre man :) Without him we would be in the same place.

Also it looks like Winfield is a little peved off.

[wist43]

Top to bottom, Minnesota is as talented as Chicago... If the Vikings had a QB, they'd be the favorite.

I'd give them a 50/50 shot at winning the division if they had a QB that could put up average numbers; however, Jackson, even if he does eventually prove to be an NFL calibur QB, he's certainly going to struggle this year.

[Cheesehead Craig]

Top to bottom, Minnesota is as talented as Chicago... If the Vikings had a QB, they'd be the favorite.
I must have missed the part where Chicago was #31 against the pass this past season. :roll: Chicago has better coaching and a much better secondary, better LB corps, WR and TE. For the $ MN has invested in the OL, it's arguable that it's not much, if any better than Chicago's.

I don't think they are close at all in talent.

[wist43]

Top to bottom, Minnesota is as talented as Chicago... If the Vikings had a QB, they'd be the favorite.
I must have missed the part where Chicago was #31 against the pass this past season. :roll: Chicago has better coaching and a much better secondary, better LB corps, WR and TE. For the $ MN has invested in the OL, it's arguable that it's not much, if any better than Chicago's.

I don't think they are close at all in talent.

Talent is one thing... putting it all together into cohesive units on the field is another.

The Vikings have always been a poorly run organization... I regard them as one of those teams that it doesn't really matter how much talent they have... they'll never win it all, b/c there's something missing w/in the organization itself.

Lack of character, lack of vision, lack of something... whatever it is, they can't put it all together on the field. But talentwise??? Right now, with the exception of QB, I think they stack up pretty well with the Bears.

To tell you the truth, I think that pathetic excuse for a stadium has something to do with it... horrible place to watch a game. Going there to watch a game is akin to going to the dentist.

[Zool]

To tell you the truth, I think that pathetic excuse for a stadium has something to do with it... horrible place to watch a game. Going there to watch a game is akin to going to the dentist.

It is the single worst venue I've been to. I cannot wait until the Twinks new stadium opens. I will actually go watch games that dont involve the Brewers. I am hard pressed to bring myself to a Twins-Brewers game next week cause the "homer dome" is such a dump.

[Cheesehead Craig]

To tell you the truth, I think that pathetic excuse for a stadium has something to do with it... horrible place to watch a game. Going there to watch a game is akin to going to the dentist.

It is the single worst venue I've been to. I cannot wait until the Twinks new stadium opens. I will actually go watch games that dont involve the Brewers. I am hard pressed to bring myself to a Twins-Brewers game next week cause the "homer dome" is such a dump.
I'm going as my neighbor and some other friends are going. I'm the only Brewer fan among the bunch.

The place is very aptly named the Big Inflatable Toilet by the locals.

I too cannot wait for the new park as well as like you, I very likely will go to a game that doesn't involve the Brewers.

[The Leaper]

Top to bottom, Minnesota is as talented as Chicago... If the Vikings had a QB, they'd be the favorite.

I don't see that. The Viking run defense is pretty good, but their secondary was one of the most pathetic units I've seen in awhile...and we just got through seeing a rather pathetic group in Green Bay a couple years back. The Bear defense doesn't have many weaknesses when everyone is healthy/not suspended. They have more talent and more playmakers.

On offense, the Vikings may have as much talent as the Bears after this year's draft...but that talent has no experience. Jackson is a huge risk to me...he could potentially be a great QB if he puts everything together, but that rarely happens.

The Vikings also do not come close to the Bears in terms of special teams. Longwell is a fading kicker who is a liability on kickoffs, even in a dome, and the Vikings do not possess a dynamic return man like Hester.

Sorry Wist...I can't say how I see how the Vikings have talent comparable to the Bears. The Vikings had a nice draft this year, but they still have numerous gaping holes on that team.

[MadtownPacker]

Out of curiosity, did one of them F*** your wife or something? Disliking some team and hoping they move are different things.

We all have our teams to hate but I never actually hope they move or fold.


Think about it, it's a friggen game. There are LOTS of Packer fans in the world, would I really want them all to have broken hearts becasue the team folded or moved? NO. Why would you want that? I ask that question because I'm really curious......Whoa, whoa, whoa!

Why you gotta bring up someones family? I dont mind and often enjoy someone talking shit about me but when they bring up my people it makes me think very low of that person.

[Spaulding]

Wist, not trying to live in the past but how does Minnesota figure as an always poorly run organization?

Sure they've had their recent issues but without living in the past, the 70's was a pretty good decade for them and the 80's weren't all that shabby either. Even the 90's had their regular season moments before the playoff debacles but to suggest they've always been poorly run is a gross mis-statement.

And talent means nothing unless it leads to on the field results. Minnesota has a young unproven quarterback and a 2nd year military minded head coach.

I don't see good things for them under Childress unless he changes his approach as I would think today's pampered players don't respond well to his coaching style.

[HarveyWallbangers]

It is the single worst venue I've been to. I cannot wait until the Twinks new stadium opens. I will actually go watch games that dont involve the Brewers.

Agreed.

[HarveyWallbangers]

I don't think they are close at all in talent.

Agreed. Chicago has nice balance--outside of their QB.

[HarveyWallbangers]

I am hard pressed to bring myself to a Twins-Brewers game next week cause the "homer dome" is such a dump.

I'm going as my neighbor and some other friends are going. I'm the only Brewer fan among the bunch.

I too cannot wait for the new park as well as like you, I very likely will go to a game that doesn't involve the Brewers.

Superfan and I will be going to the Friday night game with a couple of friends. Which game(s) will you be going to?

[Zool]

Sounds like I might be there Friday and Sunday. Sunday for sure, and me and a Twinks fan from work might be heading up for the Friday night game.

My man crush on JJ will continue from close proximity.

[wist43]

Top to bottom, Minnesota is as talented as Chicago... If the Vikings had a QB, they'd be the favorite.

I don't see that. The Viking run defense is pretty good, but their secondary was one of the most pathetic units I've seen in awhile...and we just got through seeing a rather pathetic group in Green Bay a couple years back. The Bear defense doesn't have many weaknesses when everyone is healthy/not suspended. They have more talent and more playmakers.

On offense, the Vikings may have as much talent as the Bears after this year's draft...but that talent has no experience. Jackson is a huge risk to me...he could potentially be a great QB if he puts everything together, but that rarely happens.

The Vikings also do not come close to the Bears in terms of special teams. Longwell is a fading kicker who is a liability on kickoffs, even in a dome, and the Vikings do not possess a dynamic return man like Hester.

Sorry Wist...I can't say how I see how the Vikings have talent comparable to the Bears. The Vikings had a nice draft this year, but they still have numerous gaping holes on that team.

Their talent is spread over different positions, but I think it's at least comparable.

That said, the Bears have most of their top end talent concentrated on the defensive side of the ball, so it all comes together on the field as a dominant unit.

The Vikings on the other hand have their top end talent more spread out.

OL: Birk, Hutchinson, and McKinnie are much better than what Chicago can throw out there. Although, Kruetz is as good it gets at C.

RB: Chester Taylor is a very good back IMO. Throw in Peterson, and I'd definitely take those two guys over Benson.

WR: Both teams have problems.

DL: Chicago's line is one of the best in the league, but they lack depth inside - as was shown to be the case when Harris went down; Johnson is talented, but he's an idiot and is suspended; Anderson, Ogunleye, and Brown are all good pass rushers and generally very active against the run.

Kevin and Pat Williams are absolute studs in the middle against the run... Kevin Williams is as a good a DT as there is in the league. Outside, the Vikings have swung for the fences in the draft a few times and missed. James might have been the answer, but I fear he's going to have a disappointing career due to being injury prone.

LB: No contest - Chicago wins this one hands down... although I think Leber is underrated, and Henderson improved last year. Greenway is an unknown, although I didn't like him much coming out. If Briggs gets the boot, then Chicago's LB'ing corp becomes: Urlacher, and a bunch of other guys.

DB: Antoine Winfield is the best CB on either team IMO, and I hold McCauley in pretty high regard. If he can straighten his head out, he'll be a steal; Sharper is OK, but inconsistent.

Vasher is very good cover corner, but not very physical; Tillman is a pretty good all around corner.

ST's: Chicago hands down.

When you break it down, I see them as being pretty close in overall talent... Minnesota simply doesn't have it concentrated on one side of the ball the way Chicago does.

[Merlin]

I still think Childress is their biggest weakness. He's been in the NFL, but he acts like a collge guy. Other than Vermeil and a few others, I don't think his approach will work.

I remember thinking we got the wrong guy at the start of last year, but I don't think Childress ( I can't remember any of his cool nicknames just now) will make it.

I totally agree with this. Jackson looks more like a Michael Vick type QB. Too quick to run and he doesn't read the defense or doesn't go through his progressions well, not sure which yet. The upshot is that Jackson can throw the ball and has some touch, something Vick will never accomplish. I think it's going to be a long season for the Vikings. I wouldn't be surprised to see Childress canned before the end of the season. Their defense against the run should be towards the top of the league and they should have a solid running game. Other then that, no QB threat to throw and a suspect secondary will make for a below average team.

Talent-wise "on paper" the Vikings do stack up with the Bears. But then again, the Vikings have always looked good "on paper". How many "paper championships" have they been predicted to win pre-season now? 20? 30?

[Cheesehead Craig]

I am hard pressed to bring myself to a Twins-Brewers game next week cause the "homer dome" is such a dump.

I'm going as my neighbor and some other friends are going. I'm the only Brewer fan among the bunch.

I too cannot wait for the new park as well as like you, I very likely will go to a game that doesn't involve the Brewers.

Superfan and I will be going to the Friday night game with a couple of friends. Which game(s) will you be going to?
Both Friday and Saturday night. Not sure where we are sitting as someone else bought the tix. Likely we're in around section 228-229, which is the 3rd base/Twins side. That's the usual place.

[HarveyWallbangers]

We're in section 136 for the Friday night game.

[Cheesehead Craig]

That said, the Bears have most of their top end talent concentrated on the defensive side of the ball, so it all comes together on the field as a dominant unit.

The Vikings on the other hand have their top end talent more spread out.

OL: Birk, Hutchinson, and McKinnie are much better than what Chicago can throw out there. Although, Kruetz is as good it gets at C.
Per Football Outsiders, the Bears OL did a better job both run and pass blocking than the Vikes did. (9 vs 14 run and 5 vs 22 in pass)
http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/ol.php

CHI 1, MN 0


RB: Chester Taylor is a very good back IMO. Throw in Peterson, and I'd definitely take those two guys over Benson.
No argument here.

CHI 1, MN 1


WR: Both teams have problems.
While this is true, the Bears WR are quite a bit better than the Vikes. I'm not saying that the Bears have all that great of talent, but it is markedly better than the Vikes have. I don't think there is any question here.

CHI 2, MN 1


DL: Chicago's line is one of the best in the league, but they lack depth inside - as was shown to be the case when Harris went down; Johnson is talented, but he's an idiot and is suspended; Anderson, Ogunleye, and Brown are all good pass rushers and generally very active against the run.

Kevin and Pat Williams are absolute studs in the middle against the run... Kevin Williams is as a good a DT as there is in the league. Outside, the Vikings have swung for the fences in the draft a few times and missed. James might have been the answer, but I fear he's going to have a disappointing career due to being injury prone.
Agree here. MN has 2 superstuds at DT, but the Bears have a better overall line.

CHI 3, MN 1


LB: No contest - Chicago wins this one hands down... although I think Leber is underrated, and Henderson improved last year. Greenway is an unknown, although I didn't like him much coming out. If Briggs gets the boot, then Chicago's LB'ing corp becomes: Urlacher, and a bunch of other guys.
Yep.

CHI 4, MN 1


DB: Antoine Winfield is the best CB on either team IMO, and I hold McCauley in pretty high regard. If he can straighten his head out, he'll be a steal; Sharper is OK, but inconsistent.

Vasher is very good cover corner, but not very physical; Tillman is a pretty good all around corner.
Winfield is the best. But given the 31 pass ranking of the unit, I have to go Bears here. Good secondaries just don't get murdered like this.

CHI 5, MN 1


ST's: Chicago hands down.
CHI 6, MN 1

You forgot about the QBs. As much as everyone makes fun of Grossman, he's still better than anything the Vikes have. It's similar to the WR situation.

CHI 7, MN 1


When you break it down, I see them as being pretty close in overall talent... Minnesota simply doesn't have it concentrated on one side of the ball the way Chicago does.
From the individual breakdown, it's pretty clear that Chicago has more talent overall.

[HarveyWallbangers]

The Bears are clearly better than the Vikings at WR. Both Muhammad and Berrian are markedly better than anybody on Minnesota.

At TE, I'd take Desmond Clark (productive last year) and Greg Olsen over Shiancoe and Kleinsasser.

Huge advantage over Minnesota.

I'd easily take Minnesota's RB. For this year, I'd take Grossman over Jackson/Bollinger. I'd take the Bears OL over the Vikings overhyped OL. I'd take the Bears LB and DBs also. The Bears have a Pro Bowl caliber K, P, and return man. No comparison on special teams. The one positon besides RB that I might give the edge to the Vikings is DL. Might. Only because of the uncertainty over the DTs for the Bears. The Vikings have the best pair of DTs in the NFC. They could have a stellar DL group--if Erasmus stays healthy and they get more from Udeze (those are still big ifs).

I don't see it at all. Talent-wise, the Bears are still the class of the division. Minnesota's talent is more comparable to the Packers than the Bears. Minnesota has a handful of big name, blue chippers. Some are worthy of the hype. Some are not. Overall, the talent is pretty average.

[oregonpackfan]

I was hoping to hear news that the Vikings were thinking of moving to Los Angeles. Get them out of the NFC-North! :)


I never realized you were so terrified of them!

.

Rastak,

As a Packer fan, I am hardly terrrified of the Vikings(The Packers did beat them twice last year, remember?)

I just don't like the Vikings, period.


Out of curiosity, did one of them F*** your wife or something? Disliking some team and hoping they move are different things.

We all have our teams to hate but I never actually hope they move or fold.


Think about it, it's a friggen game. There are LOTS of Packer fans in the world, would I really want them all to have broken hearts becasue the team folded or moved? NO. Why would you want that? I ask that question because I'm really curious......

Jumping off the deep end, are we Rastak? Take a deep breath and keep repeating, "Mike Tice is no longer the Vikings' coach, Mike Tice is..."

[Rastak]

I was hoping to hear news that the Vikings were thinking of moving to Los Angeles. Get them out of the NFC-North! :)


I never realized you were so terrified of them!

.

Rastak,

As a Packer fan, I am hardly terrrified of the Vikings(The Packers did beat them twice last year, remember?)

I just don't like the Vikings, period.


Out of curiosity, did one of them F*** your wife or something? Disliking some team and hoping they move are different things.

We all have our teams to hate but I never actually hope they move or fold.


Think about it, it's a friggen game. There are LOTS of Packer fans in the world, would I really want them all to have broken hearts becasue the team folded or moved? NO. Why would you want that? I ask that question because I'm really curious......

Jumping off the deep end, are we Rastak? Take a deep breath and keep repeating, "Mike Tice is no longer the Vikings' coach, Mike Tice is..."


I'm all for hating on teams, but fans?

[oregonpackfan]

I was hoping to hear news that the Vikings were thinking of moving to Los Angeles. Get them out of the NFC-North! :)


I never realized you were so terrified of them!

.

Rastak,

As a Packer fan, I am hardly terrrified of the Vikings(The Packers did beat them twice last year, remember?)

I just don't like the Vikings, period.


Out of curiosity, did one of them F*** your wife or something? Disliking some team and hoping they move are different things.

We all have our teams to hate but I never actually hope they move or fold.


Think about it, it's a friggen game. There are LOTS of Packer fans in the world, would I really want them all to have broken hearts becasue the team folded or moved? NO. Why would you want that? I ask that question because I'm really curious......

Jumping off the deep end, are we Rastak? Take a deep breath and keep repeating, "Mike Tice is no longer the Vikings' coach, Mike Tice is..."


I'm all for hating on teams, but fans?

Rastak,

I was unable to send you a personal message, so hear me out.

On second thought, bringing in my family member with "Did the Vikings f---your wife" is crosses the line of human decency. Please don't respond with "First amendment--freedom of speech--I can say anything I want" type of crap. Even the first amendment has limitations, i.e. slander.

All my initial statement was a half-joking move the Vikings out of town. You brought in my family members. Then you accuse me of attacking Viking fans, in general. I did not intend that.

I hope we can keep this discussion civil. If you cannot, please go to some other forum.

Oregonpackfan

[Rastak]

I was hoping to hear news that the Vikings were thinking of moving to Los Angeles. Get them out of the NFC-North! :)


I never realized you were so terrified of them!

.

Rastak,

As a Packer fan, I am hardly terrrified of the Vikings(The Packers did beat them twice last year, remember?)

I just don't like the Vikings, period.


Out of curiosity, did one of them F*** your wife or something? Disliking some team and hoping they move are different things.

We all have our teams to hate but I never actually hope they move or fold.


Think about it, it's a friggen game. There are LOTS of Packer fans in the world, would I really want them all to have broken hearts becasue the team folded or moved? NO. Why would you want that? I ask that question because I'm really curious......

Jumping off the deep end, are we Rastak? Take a deep breath and keep repeating, "Mike Tice is no longer the Vikings' coach, Mike Tice is..."


I'm all for hating on teams, but fans?

Rastak,

I was unable to send you a personal message, so hear me out.

On second thought, bringing in my family member with "Did the Vikings f---your wife" is crosses the line of human decency. Please don't respond with "First amendment--freedom of speech--I can say anything I want" type of crap. Even the first amendment has limitations, i.e. slander.

All my initial statement was a half-joking move the Vikings out of town. You brought in my family members. Then you accuse me of attacking Viking fans, in general. I did not intend that.

I hope we can keep this discussion civil. If you cannot, please go to some other forum.

Oregonpackfan


Civil it shall be. I was merely asking what would provoke a guy to hope many thousands of people would be heartbroken. What would motivate that? Merely speculation on my part. I see it was off base, so please accept my apology. Perhaps you could elaborate on what would motivate you to wish such a thing?

[oregonpackfan]

Thank you, Rastak. Apology accepted.

I did not intend to wish heartbreak on any, or thousands of Viking fans. IMO, that is your misinterpretation of my message.

OPF

[HarveyWallbangers]

I think Oregon started with a low blow, and then Rastak came back to bite his year off, Tyson-style.
:D

[Rastak]

Thank you, Rastak. Apology accepted.

I did not intend to wish heartbreak on any, or thousands of Viking fans. IMO, that is your misinterpretation of my message.

OPF


No problem Oregon.....check your private messages......


Yea Harv, I went Tyson.....does that mean I'm insane?

[Bretsky]

Some Packer football news besided MM is closing more practices would sure be pretty dam cool !!

[HarveyWallbangers]

JSO blows goat since Christl left. Apparently, it caught them by surprise and most of their other writers are on vacation. Their search for a replacement is the longest in history. I sent them an email saying they should just hire Tom Pelissaro. I also told them that they blow goat.

[Rastak]

JSO blows goat since Christl left. Apparently, it caught them by surprise and most of their other writers are on vacation. Their search for a replacement is the longest in history. I sent them an email saying they should just hire Tom Pelissaro. I also told them that they blow goat.


It's a bit different than the past isn't it, haven't they usually been all over the Pack coverage even in the offseason? Maybe it's budget related.....

[Bretsky]

JSO blows goat since Christl left. Apparently, it caught them by surprise and most of their other writers are on vacation. Their search for a replacement is the longest in history. I sent them an email saying they should just hire Tom Pelissaro. I also told them that they blow goat.


Maybe I should put my English Major to work :lol: :lol:

Then again, you'd send me plenty of emails saying I blow goats :wink:

[MJZiggy]

JSO blows goat since Christl left. Apparently, it caught them by surprise and most of their other writers are on vacation. Their search for a replacement is the longest in history. I sent them an email saying they should just hire Tom Pelissaro. I also told them that they blow goat.

Well, the dude was older than dirt, how could they not know he'd retire eventually. Telling them they blow goat will also help the cred of your e-mail immensely...I wonder if this is a punishment for the media having pissed M3 off last year.

[Rastak]

JSO blows goat since Christl left. Apparently, it caught them by surprise and most of their other writers are on vacation. Their search for a replacement is the longest in history. I sent them an email saying they should just hire Tom Pelissaro. I also told them that they blow goat.


Maybe I should put my English Major to work :lol: :lol:

Then again, you'd send me plenty of emails saying I blow goats :wink:


I just did a search on JSO and the Green Bay Gazette and there were no stories of Bretsky blowing goats.....

[HarveyWallbangers]

Maybe I should put my English Major to work :lol: :lol:

Then again, you'd send me plenty of emails saying I blow goats :wink:

I didn't know you could use your English Major to critique my slang.

Ziggy, I didn't actually tell them they blow goat. It was what I thought though. I was just embellishing my story.
:D

[Bretsky]

Maybe I should put my English Major to work :lol: :lol:

Then again, you'd send me plenty of emails saying I blow goats :wink:

I didn't know you could use your English Major to critique my slang.

Ziggy, I didn't actually tell them they blow goat. It was what I thought though. I was just embellishing my story.
:D

I can write
I can criticize
I can be ornry and impatient and judgemental
and I can embrace the playmaker theory when building contenders

Being Cliffy Cristl would not be that hard

and I'm pretty dam sure I'd be controversial

Oh well, one can only dream of being a sports guy for a living

[MJZiggy]

OK, but it would've been funnier if you'd actually done it. :mrgreen:

[HarveyWallbangers]

I get it. Sorry Bretsky, I totally misjudged your post.

[HarveyWallbangers]

You're too negative to replace Christl.

[MJZiggy]

I can write
I can criticize
I can be ornry and impatient and judgemental
and I can embrace the playmaker theory when building contenders

Being Cliffy Cristl would not be that hard

and I'm pretty dam sure I'd be controversial

Oh well, one can only dream of being a sports guy for a living

And they can't hire you unless you apply...

[Bretsky]

You're too negative to replace Christl.


Cristl would mimic my view on the offensive side of the ball

[Bretsky]

I can write
I can criticize
I can be ornry and impatient and judgemental
and I can embrace the playmaker theory when building contenders

Being Cliffy Cristl would not be that hard

and I'm pretty dam sure I'd be controversial

Oh well, one can only dream of being a sports guy for a living

And they can't hire you unless you apply...

Yes, good point

[the_idle_threat]

Telling them they blow goat will also help the cred of your e-mail immensely...

Well, it's not as bad as telling them they blow goat and suck a little on the balls. :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

[oregonpackfan]

I've always like Bretsky's financial advice. Perhaps he can draw up a financial retirement plan for Christl. :)

[wist43]

I think it's easy to say Chicago has more talent b/c of their success on the field, and Minnesota's lack of success. But therein lies my point to some degree... Minnesota has talent, but is a rudderless ship, and I fully expect them to remain so, while Chicago is a well run organziation.

You could fill out a roster with 22 pro bowlers, but if the front office is poorly run, and the coaching is sub standard, all of that talent will go for naught.

The Vikings - and I'll apologize in advance to Rastak for the bluntness of these comments - are kind of a skuzzy organization. Whether it's Dennis Green's sexual exploits, or Randy Moss's idiocy, or Tice's scalping, or half the team's "love boat" shenanigan's, or the owners defense of all of it... it just seems that character never enters into their thinking when they bring people into their organization - and it shows.

In short, I don't think it matters how much talent the Vikings have on the field... I don't think they'll ever be able to win it all b/c of the shortcomings in their overall organization.

[HarveyWallbangers]

What constitutes talent? Apparently, having a big name is your criteria. Udeze is a big name, but hasn't done much. Sharper has lost a step. McKinnie has never been as good as some make him out to be. Birk wasn't quite as good as he has been in the past, but that's understandable--since he was coming off a serious injury. They have some talent, but are their LBs more talented than our LBs? Let alone Chicago. How about their corners? Let alone Chicago. How about their DEs? Let alone Chicago. Their safeties are better, and their DTs are better. On offense, Jackson is no different than Aaron Rodgers at this point. They have great RBs. Their WR and TE corps may be the worst in the league. Hutchinson is a stud, but is their OL better than Green Bay's as a whole? Not really. They weren't last year. I'd take Clifton over McKinnie. Tauscher is better than their RT. Birk is better than Wells, but on the downside and might not be for long. Hutch is better than Colledge. RG is a wash. If you take position group by position group, I think Minnesota's talent is comparable to Green Bay's talent, but the Packers still have an advantage at QB. The Bears are more talented across the board than both teams.

[HarveyWallbangers]

This for Rastak.

According to reliable sources, Jackson has improved in recent days. It also looks like you might have found yourself a player in Bryan Robison. Sidney Rice continues to struggle. Suddenly, I'm not as hyped on the Packers drafting him as I was in April.
:D

[mngolf19]

Wist, I don't think you can still say the Vikes are a skuzzy org. They've had their years and ownership, but it hasn't always been that way and now they certainly don't put up with the same things they did in the past. You can question Childress's ability, I still do, but ownership and Childress have created a much better atmosphere and require players of better character. They may not translate to wins though.

Harv, as many often say the MN OL needed time to jel. Birk didn't play the year before, Hutch was new, Hicks was new and Cook was new. I fully expect that they will be much better this year and live up to more of that hype. If they aren't, then you are 100% correct. And the reason I believe that they will improve this year is that. Jackson will have much more time, an even better running game to hand off to, and certainly the WR's could only be better than what they had last year.

[Rastak]

This for Rastak.

According to reliable sources, Jackson has improved in recent days. It also looks like you might have found yourself a player in Bryan Robison. Sidney Rice continues to struggle. Suddenly, I'm not as hyped on the Packers drafting him as I was in April.
:D

Well, they drafted 3 wideouts using TT's method of quantity drafting.....at least one should work out!

[HarveyWallbangers]

Harv, as many often say the MN OL needed time to jel. Birk didn't play the year before, Hutch was new, Hicks was new and Cook was new.

None of them were rookies (besides Cook, who didn't start that many games), and only one was a second year player. Shouldn't a veteran be better able to handle that? Also, doesn't that speak well to the Packers OL--who had a first year starter at OC and 3 rookies with at least 10 starts each? Green Bay had 4 young guys that played extensively at the interior OL positions that all may have shown more last year than the likes of Cook and Johnson have. So, what makes the Vikings young guys more "talented?" Draft position?

[Rastak]

Harv, as many often say the MN OL needed time to jel. Birk didn't play the year before, Hutch was new, Hicks was new and Cook was new.

None of them were rookies (besides Cook, who didn't start that many games), and only one was a second year player. Shouldn't a veteran be better able to handle that? Also, doesn't that speak well to the Packers OL--who had a first year starter at OC and 3 rookies with at least 10 starts each? Green Bay had 4 young guys that played extensively at the interior OL positions that all may have shown more last year than the likes of Cook and Johnson have. So, what makes the Vikings young guys more "talented?" Draft position?


My understanding is that Hicks had a very tough time with his footwork moving from LG to RG. Also, Marcus Johnson played pretty poorly. Ryan Cook had never played tackle before but didn't do too badly. I don't know if they'll be better or not but they difinately didn't take to the new offensive scheme last year.

[woodbuck27]

Vikings will be bad this year. Stuff happens. I think the worste move they did was drafting AP. I think he can be a solid RB with flashes of brilliance however there is NOBODY to throw the ball. Jackson more than likely will not make it and bollinger? C'mon. The difference between the Pack and the Vikes this year is the favre man :) Without him we would be in the same place.

Also it looks like Winfield is a little peved off.

Yup.

I was thinking the same thing a day ago (or without Favre) we would be alot similiar to the Vikings.

So after Favre at least Jackson will (if he plays most of 2007) have some seasoning over Rodgers. They do have a decent prospect at RB in A. Peterson.

An interesting watch in 2007 will be the Peterson Vs V. Morency (slash) Brandon Jackson watch.

The Vikings (like us) need a couple of WR's to come out of the woodpile.

I'm most concerned about the Packers at ther TE and FB spots and I don't expect to see much more than max protect out of these two positions.

[mngolf19]

McKinnie is proven, at least to some level. Hutch and Birk are proven. But they had not played together. The running game was pretty good as that is the first part to come along. Pass blocking usually takes longer to get. I don't give them any more leeway than-they should have it this year or they aren't up to hype. I don't think I ever said the Pack's OL was bad. I think they had to gel as well, and you will see this year if they are good or not.

[HarveyWallbangers]

My understanding is that Hicks had a very tough time with his footwork moving from LG to RG. Also, Marcus Johnson played pretty poorly. Ryan Cook had never played tackle before but didn't do too badly. I don't know if they'll be better or not but they difinately didn't take to the new offensive scheme last year.

I'm not saying they don't have a chance, but you could say the same for the Packers guys. Clifton, Tauscher, and Wells hadn't played in the ZBS. Colledge was a LT in college. Moll was a TE and then a OT. Neither was an OG. Colledge had to start at LT in spots because of Clifton injuries--which is tough for a rookie.

[HarveyWallbangers]

From my buddy, the Vikings fan:


I'm not a big fan of the current Kfan purple monkey. He is no .com tom. He was talking about Jason Carter last year like he was the next Steve Smith....i was more than disappointed when I actually saw him play. He's an athletic small guy that spent most of the year on the practice squad.

[Rastak]

From my buddy, the Vikings fan:


I'm not a big fan of the current Kfan purple monkey. He is no .com tom. He was talking about Jason Carter last year like he was the next Steve Smith....i was more than disappointed when I actually saw him play. He's an athletic small guy that spent most of the year on the practice squad.


I'll reply to both comments, I agree on your Pack OL comments. On Carter, he really did look good last year and I have no idea why he didn't get some playing time. Did your buddy actually watch ANY pre season games? How can he say he didn't look good? He faced 3rd string guys but HE LOOKED GOOD. Does that translate to the real NFL? Obviously we don't know that. Childress certainly didn't think so or he would have played him. But in the only action he saw he looked good....so what action did he see that made hinm think that? Some practices he attended?

[HarveyWallbangers]

Did your buddy actually watch ANY pre season games? How can he say he didn't look good?

He's a diehard. Watches every minute of every game--preseason and all. Loves the Vikes. He's the only Vikings fan that I have ever taken to a Packers game in Lambeau. Actually, besides you, he's the only one I would.


But in the only action he saw he looked good....so what action did he see that made hinm think that? Some practices he attended?

Well, he gets a gut feeling--just like we all do. He called Cedric Griffin being a solid player last year in preseason. Not to insult you, because you are great, but he doesn't like to hear the homerstic bull. On the other hand, he's not one of these types that likes to whine about the team or pretend he doesn't care. He could join the Optimistic Realists club.
:D