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4and12to12and4
07-12-2007, 08:41 PM
Great Training Camp Battles Loom in the Packers’ Defensive Secondary
July 10, 2007
Written by Bruce Smith - PackerChatters Staff



Yes, three of the four starting positions in the Green Bay Packers’ secondary are locked down by veterans Harris, Woodson and Collins. And yes, short of injury all three will hold onto their jobs as starters.

However, after those three locks to start, the competition should be wild and intense for the 4th starting spot and the two to three positions open in the nickel and dime packages that have become essential mainstay in today’s NFL defensive arsenals.

For the moment Marquand Manuel is still penciled in as the starting strong safety, but after his dismal play last season, the young guys Atari Bigby, Tyrone Culver, Marviel Underwood, Aaron Rouse, and Charlie Peprah, all of whom have more physical talent than Manuel, are gunning for his spot. I am sure most of you will be surprised to learn that at the moment they are lined up just as I listed them above.

Atari Bigby has worked like a mad man throughout the off-season and turned coach’s heads in the mini-camps and OTA’s. This tough 5-11 and 210 lb Jamaican born safety has the speed to run side line to side line and is physically toughness to battle TE’s, blowup receivers and provide solid support for the run defense. This work has Atari running slightly ahead of last year’s rookie surprise Tyrone Culver

Like last season, the 6-1 and 200 lb Culver used his head and instincts to get the every bit out of his athletic ability. Tyrone is a solid tackler, contains well in the open field and secures the ball carrier with solid wrap-up and tackling technique. Tyrone continues to be a film room freak and will not be caught under prepared in this sure to be intense playing time and roster spot battle.

Marviel Underwood was positioned to make his move last season in training camp when he shredded his knee in the first preseason game. When healthy this 5-10 200 lb youngster packs a wallop and has above average speed and quickness for a safety. I know some of you want to pencil him in as the starter; however Underwood’s freak injury will test his ability to overcome adversity and result in him entering the competition stiff and full of rust. Add to that this young man does not have years of experience to fall back on and you begin to see the substantial hurdles Marviel will have to overcome to emerge victorious in this cage match competition.

Of course any discussion on the Safety position needs to factor in 3rd round draft pick Aaron Rouse, a 6-4 220 lb intriguing prospect from Virginia Tech. Aaron had a monster junior season, but struggled greatly in his senior season. Part of this could be attributable to the fact that he never settled into a single position at Virginia Tech (Rouse began as an outside linebacker at Virginia Tech but eventually shifted to safety) and partly because he played with a broken hand. His physical tools make him an exceptionally prospect with some pretty impressive raw measurable's - like being 6-4 220 and running a 4.37 40.

However, he will be competing in the big leagues and cannot afford to stumble like he did as a senior at VT. For many reasons I don't think Aaron has will be in the competition for serious playing time, but he should cash in on some very good physical tools and upside potential to make the team. If he is a quick learner he may have an opportunity to be a monster contributor on special teams as he uses his rookie season to learn the craft of playing safety in the NFL.

Two long shots hoping for injury opportunities opening roster spots for them include Charlie Peprah and Alvin NNabuife. Charlie played in a big time program and Alvin is a sleeper who played in NFLE.

I would be remiss if I did not point out, while I have been down on Manuel from the moment the rumors of Thompson’s interest began, he is a veteran player who has survived to craft a NFL career and will not lie down without a fight. He will have to really turn up his game to hold off the young hungry pack gnawing at his heals and ready to pounce at even the slightest stumble.

While the competition at Safety will draw a great deal of ink and much of the attention, the competition does not stop there. While there are only 4 starting positions, modern NFL defensive backfields frequently man the field with 2 to 3 more DB’s in their nickel and dime packages

Frank Walker is an aggressive, 25 year old, hard-hitting cornerback whose playing ability and experience should make him an ideal candidate for the nickel and dime job. Walker is a pretty straight-laced, "breath-sleep-and-eat" football guy who should thrive in a town like Green Bay. He is blessed with a true CB mentality, a short memory on the field (when plays don't go as planned) and loads of confidence, both are essential ingredients for success at CB in the NFL.

Remember, Walker has started in this league, and as a 25 year old with 4 years experience, Frank still has plenty of upside to build on to that experience. Walker's got good speed (running in the low 4.4’s for the Packer workout) and he is fluid, with good burst and the flexible hips that are so essential for playing CB in the NFL. He is a strong tackler, which is always nice for nickel and dime packages, as is his superior ball awareness - especially playing zone defense. Areas of growth include: getting better at jamming receivers in press coverage and staying away from taking penalties of over-aggression. He has been relatively healthy, but did have some hamstring issues last season.

Of course Walker will have to compete with Will Blackmon, Jarrett Bush and Patrick Dendy for playing time at the CB position.

Dendy is the one who grabbed the job of nickel back after Ahmad Carroll was released in week 5 or the '06 season and hopes to parlay that experience with hard work over the off season to hold the nickel job and first CB off the bench. Patrick Dendy, at 6' 190 lbs has the right mental makeup to play the corner and his 3 interceptions were impressive and timely, After suffering through watching Carroll’s flagatitus, even the casual observer had to be impressed by the fact that Dendy handled the top nickel job while only drawing one penalty all season long. Equally important to the defense was the fact that his teammates could count on him to be where he was supposed to be - Dendy studies hard and plays assignment sure for a young undrafted free agent corner.

Jarrett Bush 6 foot 200 lbs, on the other hand, is loaded with athletic ability, with a great size to speed ratio, who rarely got on the field as a defender last season as a free-agent rookie pickup. Last season Jarrett did provide the team with the Kamikaze special team player that most teams covet, and where he delivered big hits and impressive hustle as a gunner on the punt team. He also was a fixture on the kick-off coverage team.

If the coaching staff can work with this kid on developing his ability as a corner, he might surprise some folks and leap-frog into the nickel position in 2007. He certainly has the size and strength and athletic ability to do the job, if he can just get it down between the ears, he should make a great press CB. He stood out at mini-camp and OTA’s with his marked improvement

Of course the biggest hopes at this position lie with the 6 foot 202 pound, Will Blackmon. Will watched his rookie season implode due to injuries right out of the gate - he broke his foot in mini-camp and as soon as he healed he fractured his ribs and ended up on the IR for the season.

While there is no questioning Will Blackmon's athletic ability, there certainly are questions about his development. Blackmon was outstanding as a DB, but never settled into the position long enough to gather significant experience or learn the more subtle aspects of playing CB due to shifting to wide receiver to benefit his team in college. IF he can stay healthy, he has the athletic ability to not only grab the top spot off the bench, but to eventually be a talented starter in this league. Ah, but there is that BIG IF again…

Like I said in the title of this piece “Great Training Camp Battles Loom in the Packers’ Defensive Secondary…” So pull up a chair, fasten your seatbelts and let the games begin – this should be fun to watch.

Hmm, interesting. I hope that Rouse shows so much potential, that the coaches can't help but keep him on the field. I have very high hopes for him. On the other hand, these other young guns got quite a bit of experience last year, and hopefully that will turn into positive improvements this year. At least it looks like we've got talented guys fighting for positions, and most of them aren't "grabby" type of DB's like we've had in the past (I won't mention any names).

wist43
07-13-2007, 11:03 AM
That's the first I've seen of anybody having Bigby as a possible starter. I had pencilled in Underwood, but his knee is coming back pretty slowly apparently.

I'm not sure what the state of our secondary is. Woodson and Harris are solid, but Collins was either invisible or deficient most of the year; and, of course, the other safety spot is a mess.

Walker or Blackmon has to step up and win the nickel job. If Dendy is still the #3 corner when the regular season starts - we've got major problems.

In watching the Jet game last week, I remember a stat they put up: 28 trips into the red zone by opposing offenses, 100% score rate: 19 TD's, 9 FG's... that's just nothing short of pathetic.

The four game winning streak, against abysmal offensive teams, made everyone forget how woeful the defense was for most of the year.

Freak Out
07-13-2007, 11:37 AM
In watching the Jet game last week, I remember a stat they put up: 28 trips into the red zone by opposing offenses, 100% score rate: 19 TD's, 9 FG's... that's just nothing short of pathetic.

Pathetic? Stronger words are in order for that type of performance. The defense was bent over a barrel more times than I care to remember last year..at home to boot!

retailguy
07-13-2007, 12:45 PM
The four game winning streak, against abysmal offensive teams, made everyone forget how woeful the defense was for most of the year.


That, and a good pair of kool-aid goggles will cure just about anything. I was at one of those abysmal games (Vikings at Lambeau). This team has a LONG way to go, whether those here label me "negative" or not.

Spot on Wist. Spot on.

Spaulding
07-13-2007, 09:30 PM
The four game winning streak, against abysmal offensive teams, made everyone forget how woeful the defense was for most of the year.


That, and a good pair of kool-aid goggles will cure just about anything. I was at one of those abysmal games (Vikings at Lambeau). This team has a LONG way to go, whether those here label me "negative" or not.

Spot on Wist. Spot on.

Not negative, just realistic. I'm a glass half full kinda guy and don't plan on breaking the TV set unless we experience more of the home blowouts again this year. We get bombed at home like we did against the Bears, Pats and Jets and things could get tougher than trying to figure out if Pat from SNL is a man or a woman.

ND72
07-14-2007, 10:15 AM
I'm not sure what the state of our secondary is. Woodson and Harris are solid, but Collins was either invisible or deficient most of the year; and, of course, the other safety spot is a mess.


SO you obviously didn't watch the last 6 games of the season when Collins was 2nd on the team in interceptions, 3rd on the team only behind Hawk & Barnett, and tied for the lead in pass deflections.

ND72
07-14-2007, 10:20 AM
[quote="wist43"]
The four game winning streak, against abysmal offensive teams

Comments like these show me how spoiled we have become. I would have given anything to face some "abysmal offense" when we were 4-12 and gotten a few more wins. Fact is in the NFL....wins are wins. I don't care who we beat, but wins are wins. The other fact is, those last 4 wins, are wins we SHOULD have won, and did. When you beat the teams you're suppose to beat, then it doesn't matter to me. in the 90's we beat a bunch of abysmal offensive teams, such as every chicago bear team then....are we suppose to take away credit from those Packer teams?

RashanGary
07-14-2007, 10:31 AM
Collins had 3 int's and 2 FF's

That's not probowl level, but he's certainly making big plays. You see many SS's across the league with 1 FF and 0 INT's. Collins impacts the game. I don't think he's a great player but I think he has a chance to be a borderline probowler if he can get those INT #'s up to 5 and the FF's up to 3 or 4.

NFL players and coaches take note when their guys are getting lit up. Collins makes one monster hit every 3 or 4 games and the coaches and players remember that sort of thing. Over time he'll build his probowl votes.

Tarlam!
07-14-2007, 10:53 AM
The other fact is, those last 4 wins, are wins we SHOULD have won, and did. When you beat the teams you're suppose to beat, then it doesn't matter to me. in the 90's we beat a bunch of abysmal offensive teams, such as every chicago bear team then....are we suppose to take away credit from those Packer teams?

Kudos. Never thought of this, but you are right. LIS, Kudos.

KYPack
07-15-2007, 08:51 PM
I hope two guys make the 'ol Quantam Leap and help us this year.

One is Culver. For one thing, if he plays well, Mad will finally be right about one thing in his life. Culver carries himself well, and has a confident manner about himself. iIthink the guy could really bloom.

The other kid is Blackmon. Not only is he a helluva athlete, he could help us both at nickel and the return game.

Both these guys could lift us into the elite tier of defenses if they play really well.

retailguy
07-15-2007, 09:07 PM
[quote=wist43]
The four game winning streak, against abysmal offensive teams

Comments like these show me how spoiled we have become. I would have given anything to face some "abysmal offense" when we were 4-12 and gotten a few more wins. Fact is in the NFL....wins are wins. I don't care who we beat, but wins are wins. The other fact is, those last 4 wins, are wins we SHOULD have won, and did. When you beat the teams you're suppose to beat, then it doesn't matter to me. in the 90's we beat a bunch of abysmal offensive teams, such as every chicago bear team then....are we suppose to take away credit from those Packer teams?

You are missing some analysis to your point. While I agree in SUBSTANCE with what you say, you 'conveniently' forget that there are many here who use those 4 wins to 'justify' the teams improvement. Those 4 wins didn't 'justify' anything. You stated it well, they should've won and they did. You use wins to justify improvement when you beat teams YOU ARE SUPPOSED TO LOSE against. Had we beaten the Patriots, the Jets, or the Bears (BEFORE they won the division) THEN I'd be talking about 'justifying' improvement.

Other than that, good rant ND... :wink:

wist43
07-16-2007, 07:41 AM
Back to the secondary... one of the most disappointing aspects of the offseason for me was the lack of attention in addressing the CB position - in both the long and short term.

Frank Walker, Patrick Dendy, Will Blackmon, and Jarrett Bush... not sure that I see the future there. :?

I have hope for Blackmon, and Bush has the physical skills... but, it's a huge leap to go from having athletic ability and stepping up to play starting calibur CB in the NFL.

Where's the future??? Harris and Woodson have to be viewed in the short term, i.e. they won't be around if the TT ever gets the roster build up enough to make a playoff run.

So does TT go into the '08 offseason looking at CB as a "need"??? If CB is a need, we can be rest assured that our 1st round pick will definitely be a Center.

mraynrand
07-16-2007, 08:34 AM
Atari Bigby has worked like a mad man throughout the off-season and turned coach’s heads in the mini-camps and OTA’s. This tough 5-11 and 210 lb Jamaican born safety has the speed to run side line to side line.

http://www.videogamecritic.net/images/2600/space_invaders.png

TopHat
07-16-2007, 09:37 AM
This secondary roster battle article, along with other very good roster battles' articles, was already posted, a day before this posting, on "TRAINING CAMP: PROJECTED DEPTH CHART & ROSTER BATTLES".

http://www.packerrats.com/ratchat/viewtopic.php?t=7091&start=20

MadtownPacker
07-16-2007, 11:23 AM
One is Culver. For one thing, if he plays well, Mad will finally be right about one thing in his life. Culver carries himself well, and has a confident manner about himself. iIthink the guy could really bloom.Hold your horse there playboy!! I said they would finish off last season with a December sweep and possibly make the playoffs which all came true so I got one thing right. Plus I said you are so ugly you scare babies and you know thats true.

As for Culver, I know part of it is me being a Fresno State homer but the truth is the guy is smart, not just football smarts but education smarts and he is a leader to boot. He was the QB of the defense and was in charge of calling the plays and directing the defense. FS HC Pat Hill runs a pro style defense so Culver is no stranger to complicated schemes. You saw he got the sweet INT last season when he was given a chance. HE is one to watch for on D.

MadtownPacker
07-16-2007, 11:38 AM
This secondary roster battle article, along with other very good roster battles' articles, was already posted, a day before this posting, on "TRAINING CAMP: PROJECTED DEPTH CHART & ROSTER BATTLES".

http://www.packerrats.com/ratchat/viewtopic.php?t=7091&start=20
Maybe it was but we like to DISCUSS the articles and expecting people to keep it all to one thread (yours) is kinda selfish and egotistic.

KYPack
07-17-2007, 07:05 AM
One is Culver. For one thing, if he plays well, Mad will finally be right about one thing in his life. Culver carries himself well, and has a confident manner about himself. iIthink the guy could really bloom.Hold your horse there playboy!! I said they would finish off last season with a December sweep and possibly make the playoffs which all came true so I got one thing right. .

OH yeah.

If Mad is right about Culver, he can be right about TWO things in his life.