How about a tour in Iraq?

[Freak Out]

Every male in my family has a few tales to tell about service throughout the years although it does not come up very much.....But I cannot comprehend what our countrymen and women go through working the streets in Iraq. I have a nephew that is over now for the second time and he talked real tough before he was first deployed. Now his attitude is the same as the soldier in this slide show. Attitudes are changing in our military regarding the operations in Iraq and support is much lower within the ranks than many believe.

http://abcnews.go.com/Nightline/popup?id=3382593&contentIndex=1&page=9

[Harlan Huckleby]

I believe that anybody who supports a war ought to be willing to send their own kids to fight.

I remember arguing with my dad about the surge strategy back in January, I said, "the odds of this thing succeeding are 25% or less." His response, "probably so, but the stakes are so high that it might still be worth taking that risk."

Well, fuck. I KNOW he wouldn't send his own kids out for a dangerous project with 25% odds of success. (Well, he might send me, but not the others.) I HATE the all-too-common attitude that "we" have to make a sacrifice from people who would never take the risks themselves.

[Joemailman]

Yesterday I saw one of those "Freedom Isn't Free" bumper stickers. I thought for most of us, it pretty much is free. I don't know if the person displaying the bumper sticker is a veteran, but if not, they shouldn't be displaying it.

[Little Whiskey]

Yesterday I saw one of those "Freedom Isn't Free" bumper stickers. I thought for most of us, it pretty much is free. I don't know if the person displaying the bumper sticker is a veteran, but if not, they shouldn't be displaying it.

you don't need to be a veteran to display that sticker, but if you paid a price for freedom.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Yawn!

[SkinBasket]

Don't forget the flip side of this whole thing. There are a lot of kids who bought into the wrongheaded commercial campaign for the Army that all you have to do is sign up and you'll get valuable training, free college, and real world experience. The result is we have a fighting force of soldiers who don't even know what the term soldier entails. They all think they're just running around with guns and training and "playing" soldier as a way to get ahead in the world without realizing that when we fucking go to war, that means you go and fight and kill people and die. You don't get to decide if it's the "morally" right thing to do, or whether political objectives are being met, or what the value of your life versus the lives of x number of strangers is. I have no sympathy for those who signed up, then decided that when they were actually expected to do something for that money for college or that technical training fled to Canada or decided they don't believe in war. They should be allowed to resume their normal lives once they reimburse the US government every cent of their incentives and training, which they apparently felt they should get for free.

As far as the whole "sending your kids to fight argument," I think it's just more pussy ass nonsense. The "kids" signed up to be SOLDIERS, not peace corps workers, not nuns, not special education teachers - some of them at the urging of their parents. They did send their kids off to be soldiers, apparently not understanding what that meant, like they were sending them to summer camp. Then when they die, it's never their fault. No it's the evil workings of the government - unexpectedly using soldiers for war. How dare they!

[Freak Out]

Yawn!

Harvey is right there with most Americans, asleep during the "struggle of our times".

[Harlan Huckleby]

As far as the whole "sending your kids to fight argument," I think it's just more pussy ass nonsense. The "kids" signed up to be SOLDIERS, not peace corps workers,

You are ranting against a straw man. The "kids to fight" conversation was about war supporters, not the soldiers.

But whatever, maybe the straw man had a good kick comin.

[BallHawk]

FYI 3.

[mraynrand]

I believe that anybody who supports a war ought to be willing to send their own kids to fight.

What if I were willing but they didn't want to go?


I remember arguing with my dad about the surge strategy back in January, I said, "the odds of this thing succeeding are 25% or less."

How did you come up with 25%? What was your definition of success? What was your Dad's definition?

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Those National Guard members certainly didn't sign up expecting to be sent overseas. Nor did the reservists.

But, I am not asleep. Our glorious leader asked for our sacrifice after 9/11 to support the war. If you aren't spending more then you are giving aide to the enemy. I, for one, have racked up an incredible debt so as to support freedom.

Never have so many done so little.

[PackerBlues]

I was in the military for 4 years. I hated it. I hated it with a passion. I stuck it out, finished my contract, and left with my Honorable discharge.

Within days of 9/11, I was at the same recruiting station that I originally went to when I served that first time. More than anything, I was pissed off that anyone would dare to attack our home land. The sight of people jumping from the towers......... I was ready to sign back up irregardless of how I felt about my previous time in the military.

The very first thing that I found out, going into that recruiting station, was that they would not give me my previous last held rank. While I would not have to re-attend boot camp, I would have had to start back up as an E-1. That made me think about all the bullshit I had been fed the first time I joined. How I had been told that if I went through an "A-school", I wouldn't have to go through the same things as the guys that simply joined up with no idea what "rate" they would work in. As it turned out, I still ended up scrubbin toilets and buffing floors, just like most everyone else, for damned near the first 2 years of my so-called military career.

The next thing that I thought about, was all of the great benefits that you are told that you will recieve as a veteran, once you get out and re-join the civilian world. As it turns out, they have more excuses not to give you these benefits than you could possibly imagine.

In the end, I took a "wait and see" approach. While I didnt have any problem with our military going into Afganistan, going into Iraq has been nothing more than a joke from the very start. Bush, Cheyney, Haliburton..... its nothing but the rape of a country.

I am sickened by people bitching about our soldiers not wanting to be in Iraq. Saying that they signed up and therefore they have no right to complain about the war. Sorry, but that is just ignorant bull shit. How many of the people in the military right now, signed up not only to defend this country, but also to avenge 9/11? Iraq has nothing to do with either. So, instead of doing something they find meaningful, these people are being asked to risk their lives so that cock suckers like Cheyney, can recieve his kick backs from Haliburton. Instead of hunting down anyone that had anything to do with 9/11, they get to be body guards for Haliburton. Ask any one of these soldiers, that bitch about being in Iraq, if they would volunteer for a suicide mission to go after Bin Laden, and my bet is that they would gladly go. The thing is, the ones that are bitching, are the ones that are smart enough to know that being in Iraq is not in our countries best interest, its in the best interest of scum like Bush and Cheyney.


On a lighter note, check out John Stewarts update on Iraq:

http://www.spikedhumor.com/articles/115629/The_Daily_Show_Mess_O_Potomac.html

If the video starts with an advertisement, hit your refresh button and then start the video.

[Freak Out]

Don't forget the flip side of this whole thing. There are a lot of kids who bought into the wrongheaded commercial campaign for the Army that all you have to do is sign up and you'll get valuable training, free college, and real world experience. The result is we have a fighting force of soldiers who don't even know what the term soldier entails. They all think they're just running around with guns and training and "playing" soldier as a way to get ahead in the world without realizing that when we fucking go to war, that means you go and fight and kill people and die. You don't get to decide if it's the "morally" right thing to do, or whether political objectives are being met, or what the value of your life versus the lives of x number of strangers is. I have no sympathy for those who signed up, then decided that when they were actually expected to do something for that money for college or that technical training fled to Canada or decided they don't believe in war. They should be allowed to resume their normal lives once they reimburse the US government every cent of their incentives and training, which they apparently felt they should get for free.

As far as the whole "sending your kids to fight argument," I think it's just more pussy ass nonsense. The "kids" signed up to be SOLDIERS, not peace corps workers, not nuns, not special education teachers - some of them at the urging of their parents. They did send their kids off to be soldiers, apparently not understanding what that meant, like they were sending them to summer camp. Then when they die, it's never their fault. No it's the evil workings of the government - unexpectedly using soldiers for war. How dare they!

They signed up to be soldiers for sure..but not to get stuck with endless tours in a shithole. We have mercenaries who do sign up to fight....just for the $$$ but it is not the folks wearing the uniform of the US services. If this is a fight for our survival like our leaders like to tell us and the answer is a military one then they need to get balls and draft an army and get the job done. If that was the case the people would not run when the call came, they would line up to fight.

[Little Whiskey]

Im with skin, if you sign up to be a soilder don't bitch when you have to fight. in the military you don't get to question what you want and don't want to do, just like you don't get to question what your uniform looks like. you do it. you follow where your commander sends you. thats your job.

[Freak Out]

Im with skin, if you sign up to be a soilder don't bitch when you have to fight. in the military you don't get to question what you want and don't want to do, just like you don't get to question what your uniform looks like. you do it. you follow where your commander sends you. thats your job.

Everyone gets to bitch.

[Joemailman]

I agree that when you join the military, you have to serve wherever they send you. That doesn't mean that it is ok for the White House to sent them into harm's way without a damn good reason. It is up to the Congress, the media and the public to make sure that the President is given the authorization to go to war only as a last result. In that we all failed.

[Harlan Huckleby]

How did you come up with 25%? What was your definition of success? What was your Dad's definition?

success would be to create sustainable momentum towards stability. "sustainable" means done with a modest commitment of U.S. troops. The U.S., for a variety of reasons, can't indefinitely be the cop there.

To give the surge strategy a 25% chance now would be optimisitic.

[SkinBasket]

As far as the whole "sending your kids to fight argument," I think it's just more pussy ass nonsense. The "kids" signed up to be SOLDIERS, not peace corps workers,

You are ranting against a straw man. The "kids to fight" conversation was about war supporters, not the soldiers.

But whatever, maybe the straw man had a good kick comin.

Yeah, you're right. I guess I should have realized you were focusing on all the people sitting around talking about the fighting instead of the people doing the fighting, because they're the important one's in all of this. They have much more at stake.

But fine, let's pretend that this is about war supporters, and their apparent need to have a personal stake in the war in order to support it. Does this view extend to people who don't support the war? Do you think anyone who doesn't have a child in uniform should be allowed an opinion or belief regarding the war or that they can only be allowed an opinion that corresponds to yours? Just wondering since you haven't mentioned them.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Do you think anyone who doesn't have a child in uniform should be allowed an opinion or belief regarding the war

nah, I don't care about Cindy Sheehan's opinion just because she had a kid in the war. I'm not saying people need a connection to the military to be taken seriously.

I suggest that people should treat decisions about war with the same seriousness they would in risking their own personal safety. If you (hypothetically) wouldn't put your own ass on the line, or your kids, than don't put your fellow citiczen out there to die for an iffy cause.

I understand that we have a volunteer army, and when fighting needs to be done, that's their job to do. But they are not mercenaries! In the first place, it is dishonest to treat them as hired guns, many of them joined for patriotic reasons, they were told that they are helping to protect America & American values. And secondly, it is suicidal to think that we could survive with a military detatched from public support, it would unravel under stress.

[Zool]

Team America: World Police

[Harlan Huckleby]

that was a damn funny movie.