PR Outsider: It’s in the Air

[MadtownPacker]

It’s that time of year again when fans have visions of the football gods smiling down upon their team and creating a magical season. Indeed, hope runs rampant all across the country as both the college and professional gridiron warriors prepare for the 2007 season......... MORE (http://packerrats.com/)

[BallHawk]

Good article.

[Packnut]

Good article.

Thank You. I have HUGE expectations for this defense.

[BallHawk]

Good article.

Thank You. I have HUGE expectations for this defense.

As do many of us here. Whether they meet those expectations remains to be seen.

Two players who are going to need to step up this year.

Nick Collins and Cullen Jenkins. If both of those guys get it going and Harris and CW keep up the good work from last year, then we got a playoff caliber defense on our hands.

[Packnut]

Good article.

Thank You. I have HUGE expectations for this defense.

As do many of us here. Whether they meet those expectations remains to be seen.

Two players who are going to need to step up this year.

Nick Collins and Cullen Jenkins. If both of those guys get it going and Harris and CW keep up the good work from last year, then we got a playoff caliber defense on our hands.

I agree. Those 2 guys are the whole key to a good season for the D. If both take the next step up, everyone else will benefit and I can see a highly motivated group.

[Bretsky]

Good article.

Thank You. I have HUGE expectations for this defense.


Good article, but if I didn't know you better I'd think you've turned soft and have climbed upon the turtle's shell :lol:

[RashanGary]

Nice work Packnut.



There is room for one more Bretsky :)

[MJZiggy]

I thought it was as balanced and unbiased as I've seen in an article in a while. Nice job.

[Packnut]

Good article.

Thank You. I have HUGE expectations for this defense.


Good article, but if I didn't know you better I'd think you've turned soft and have climbed upon the turtle's shell :lol:


The Walker fiasco burned in my brain will NEVER let that happen! :lol:

Really though, I think you can look back to the last 4 games and find some hard evidence of a much better D. I know wist will counter with who they played and to some extent it's true. However, the rise also coincided with the move of Jenkins outside so a case can be made that move made us a much better D. In fact if anything, one has to question why it took MM so long to realize what most of us here already knew.

I'm not about to turn into a rah-rah kool-aid guy as you'll see in part 2 when I discuss our offense. Our D has tangable reasons why we can expect them to improve, while the same cannot be said for our O. With them, all we have is "hope" for now.......

[Packnut]

Nice work Packnut.



There is room for one more Bretsky :)


Thank you. We all want the same result here, we just have different idea's on how to get there.

[Packnut]

I thought it was as balanced and unbiased as I've seen in an article in a while. Nice job.


Muchas Gracias

[HarveyWallbangers]

Pretty good and fair, actually. So unlike you.
:D

I don't think Nick Collins was terrible last year. He had some breakdowns early in the year, but made some plays also. Marquand Manuel was terrible. Collins had a sophomore slump, but classifying it as terrible is a tad much.

Everybody's play in the secondary improved after Carroll was released. Probably had more to do with them playing some of the best offenses (Rams, Saints, Eagles with McNabb, the Bears when they were going well) in the NFC early than just cutting Carroll. Interesting nonetheless. Then again, they didn't play a lot of good offenses after the first 6 weeks.

Should be interesting. I think there are signs they are a legit defense, but it's far from a certainty. Kampman and the starting corners need to stay healthy all year again for them to even have a chance.

[GrnBay007]

WTG Nut!! :P

Nice!

[Bretsky]

I thought it was as balanced and unbiased as I've seen in an article in a while. Nice job.


I agree; this is why I'm having writers block

[MJZiggy]

Get over it.








(just kidding, lol) :P

[Bretsky]

Pretty good and fair, actually. So unlike you.
:D

I don't think Nick Collins was terrible last year. He had some breakdowns early in the year, but made some plays also. Marquand Manuel was terrible. Collins had a sophomore slump, but classifying it as terrible is a tad much.

Everybody's play in the secondary improved after Carroll was released. Probably had more to do with them playing some of the best offenses (Rams, Saints, Eagles with McNabb, the Bears when they were going well) in the NFC early than just cutting Carroll. Interesting nonetheless. Then again, they didn't play a lot of good offenses after the first 6 weeks.

Should be interesting. I think there are signs they are a legit defense, but it's far from a certainty. Kampman and the starting corners need to stay healthy all year again for them to even have a chance.


I don't think Collins was that bad either. He was banged up early; he was better at the end. He has a nice jump on the ball; but he just seems to miss the big play. I didn't even think Manuel was horrid; he's a nice backup in the reality of things.

But this defense was ill prepared and incompetent at times. The Arizona was the third game I went to last year. I have distinct memories of the defense looking lost in the first two games I attended, which were the Bears game and the Rams game.

Key Veterans motioning over to the sidelines, players running on and off as the play was about to be snapped. Borderline incompetence. And that goes to the coaching.

As sold as I am on our defensive personnel overall, I fear the leadership of the defensive coordinator and secondary coach just as much. They better have this fixed from the start because on paper the defensive talent is a solid notch up from the offensive talent.

And much of that is because TT had focused on defense in free agency instead of the offense.

[Joemailman]

Good article.

Thank You. I have HUGE expectations for this defense.


Good article, but if I didn't know you better I'd think you've turned soft and have climbed upon the turtle's shell :lol:


The Walker fiasco burned in my brain will NEVER let that happen! :lol:

Really though, I think you can look back to the last 4 games and find some hard evidence of a much better D. I know wist will counter with who they played and to some extent it's true. However, the rise also coincided with the move of Jenkins outside so a case can be made that move made us a much better D. In fact if anything, one has to question why it took MM so long to realize what most of us here already knew.

I'm not about to turn into a rah-rah kool-aid guy as you'll see in part 2 when I discuss our offense. Our D has tangable reasons why we can expect them to improve, while the same cannot be said for our O. With them, all we have is "hope" for now.......


Following the Jets fiasco, MM sat in on some of the defense meetings leading up to the SF game. I wonder if putting Jenkins into the starting lineup might have been MM overruling Sanders, or at least strongly suggesting a change needed to be made. It was also at that point that it seemed the communications problems in the secondary disappeared. We can't be sure of the reasons, but the defense definitely played better after MM got more involved with the defense.

[Packnut]

Pretty good and fair, actually. So unlike you.
:D

I don't think Nick Collins was terrible last year. He had some breakdowns early in the year, but made some plays also. Marquand Manuel was terrible. Collins had a sophomore slump, but classifying it as terrible is a tad much.

Everybody's play in the secondary improved after Carroll was released. Probably had more to do with them playing some of the best offenses (Rams, Saints, Eagles with McNabb, the Bears when they were going well) in the NFC early than just cutting Carroll. Interesting nonetheless. Then again, they didn't play a lot of good offenses after the first 6 weeks.

Should be interesting. I think there are signs they are a legit defense, but it's far from a certainty. Kampman and the starting corners need to stay healthy all year again for them to even have a chance.

Don't know what Nick Collins you were watching, but the one I saw was hesitant and out of position several times. I would classify that as terrible. Must be a subjective word with different meanings to different people so I'll put it another way- he SUCKED!

[Packnut]

Just saw this from Pierson at MSNBC sports:



Outlook
This has the makings of a very good defense, provided cornerbacks Charles Woodson and Al Harris hold up. They should, because the front seven is as strong as it's been in years. The Packers put more pressure on quarterbacks than any other team in the division. While the Bears remain the division favorite, the Packers are poised to step up if the Bears slip.

[Bretsky]

Just saw this from Pierson at MSNBC sports:



Outlook
This has the makings of a very good defense, provided cornerbacks Charles Woodson and Al Harris hold up. They should, because the front seven is as strong as it's been in years. The Packers put more pressure on quarterbacks than any other team in the division. While the Bears remain the division favorite, the Packers are poised to step up if the Bears slip.


Watched an interview with Leroy Butler last night. It's his opinion that Green Bay should have a very good defense, but they have not did enough to contend in the division or for the NFC Title. Felt the Bears were heads and heels above the rest in our division. Butler is usually pretty Packer Kool Aidy; it was hard to watch

[Packnut]

Pretty good and fair, actually. So unlike you.
:D

I don't think Nick Collins was terrible last year. He had some breakdowns early in the year, but made some plays also. Marquand Manuel was terrible. Collins had a sophomore slump, but classifying it as terrible is a tad much.

Everybody's play in the secondary improved after Carroll was released. Probably had more to do with them playing some of the best offenses (Rams, Saints, Eagles with McNabb, the Bears when they were going well) in the NFC early than just cutting Carroll. Interesting nonetheless. Then again, they didn't play a lot of good offenses after the first 6 weeks.

Should be interesting. I think there are signs they are a legit defense, but it's far from a certainty. Kampman and the starting corners need to stay healthy all year again for them to even have a chance.


More often than not Harv, I do have facts to support an opinion:

Marcus Colston beat Collins for a 35-yard TD catch in Week 2 and Collins was largely responsible for a 42-yard TD by Detroit's Roy Williams in Week 3. Collins also blew the coverage and inexplicably jumped a route that Minnesota's Billy McMullen turned into a 40-yard touchdown.

I call this TERRIBLE! Saftey is your last line of defense and you can't give up these kind of plays. I do believe part of the problem was Manuel. He confused the hell out of Nick. If you remember, one of the packer beat writers wrote a story hinting that the 3 starting members of the secondary were less than thrilled with Manuel.......

[Packnut]

Here's the article I took that from.

http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=630877

[HarveyWallbangers]

Not sure that not making enough big plays (like the article reads) equates to having a terrible year. You cited three big plays that he gave up, but those were three of the four or five big plays he gave up. It happens. Overall, I don't think he was terrible. I remember him struggling early. Then, I watched a replay of the Rams game, and he made a few plays. He made what could have turned out to be the biggest play of the game. With the Rams trying to run out the clock, he made a beautiful pass breakup on 3rd down to give the ball back to the offense. Unfortunately, the offense fumbled. People remember the few big plays he gave up, but they don't remember the good stuff he did. The guy also led all NFC safeties in pass breakups with 14.

From McGinn's All NFC North review:


FREE SAFETY: Nick Collins (GB), Danieal Manning (Chi.) and Dwight Smith (Minn.), 7. Other: Terrence Holt (Det.), 3.

Comments: Collins and Manning, a pair of second-round picks, have tons of talent but don't react quickly. "Collins was a little disappointing," one scout said. "Usually guys make a big jump in their second year. But I think he will get better." Manning isn't as physical as Collins but probably has better ball skills. Smith was a good pickup in late July.

McGinn's season grades:


Nick Collins: Played his finest game in two seasons last Sunday night in Chicago. Made two exceptional interceptions, dropped what would have been a third and was seen to gallivant all over the field making tackles. He had been playing a much more hesitant game. He tied for second in turnover plays (five). In coverage, he allowed five plays of 20 yards or more and four TD passes, third most on the team. Grade: C-plus.

[Freak Out]

"Were gonna get that fixed"....

Nick Collins is going to play like a demon this year and teach opposing players to fear treading his turf. The other safety spot will get worked during training camp and Schott will have the guys playing like a well oiled machine! Look out for Rouse, he is going to be in the middle of things when its all said and done.

[Carolina_Packer]

I had to finally admit I wasn't 100% sure what a strong safety did vs. a free safety, so I looked it up. Here is a web site that I found, and the articles are kind of amusing. Look at the part that says "You know he's doing his job when" and "You know he's not when"

http://www.phillyburbs.com/football101/ssafety.shtml

Here's the explanation for free safety and there's a link to each position on the right hand column. Good stuff.

http://www.phillyburbs.com/football101/fsafety.shtml

[RashanGary]

Didn't Collins have a hamstring, a knee and that lower back injury? ? ?

He was pretty knicked up during the heart of the season. I think he'll have a better year.

[BEARMAN]

High expectations, ... Don't need 'em, Da BEARS win the NCFN (again), win the NCF and win the SB ! That's right I said it, so take head cheeseheads, ... Da BEARS are comming, and they are hungery ! :twisted:

[MJZiggy]

Mornin' Bearman...maybe the Bears do win the division again, but they're sure doing their best to make it interesting...let's play a game of "who else are they gonna give a contract to, JUST to piss off Lance Briggs..."

[Packnut]

Mornin' Bearman...maybe the Bears do win the division again, but they're sure doing their best to make it interesting...let's play a game of "who else are they gonna give a contract to, JUST to piss off Lance Briggs..."

According to media reports here in Bear land, Briggs is close to signing.

[Bretsky]

Mornin' Bearman...maybe the Bears do win the division again, but they're sure doing their best to make it interesting...let's play a game of "who else are they gonna give a contract to, JUST to piss off Lance Briggs..."

How about Lance Briggs :lol:

[Packnut]

Didn't Collins have a hamstring, a knee and that lower back injury? ? ?

He was pretty knicked up during the heart of the season. I think he'll have a better year.


I think he'll have an outstanding year. My only point that for whatever the reason, he sucked the first 3/4's of the season. 99.9% of any article written on the Packers D from last season all pretty much say the same thing. I believe he suffered from Manuel syndrome but that is just an un-substantiated opinion.......

[4and12to12and4]

Well, I think last year's schedule was both a blessing and a curse for the Packer's season last year.

On one hand, the offensive line was simply too young, inexperienced, and, well, probably pscyologically beaten before the Bear's game even started, as far as confindence goes, after the way they played in preseason. So, in a way, I think it really hurt the confidence of a young team, to get our asses kicked in their first go-around in the NFL.

However, the good that came out of it, IMO, is that it set a precedent for them for the rest of the season, and their careers, that this ain't college no more, and the boys on the other side of the ball are kinda, big and fast. So, I think it had to help them reach back and realize if they want to keep their jobs they were going to have to bust their humps on every play in this league.

I think that we won that final game because the Bears were probably a bit unconcerned about beating us, when you go into any game thinking you're superior, you do lose an edge, and the Packers, feeling more confident with a three game win streak, knowing they almost made the playoffs, also remembering how this team kicked their ass a few months earlier, went into the game with every ounce of intensity they could muster. Thus the outcome. The Bears were probably the better team that night, but, football is a very mental game. It requires a rugged, confident, intensity to play against the type of talent they see each week, and though our young guys AND our vets were much more relaxed in their knowledge of the scheme by the season's end, I believe that they went into the game thinking "we can beat these guys, we have a good defense, and our QB is ten times better than theirs". Scoring a touchdown on that first drive was big, I think it messed with the Bear's a bit, and certainly helped the Packer's confidence. It set the tone to the game.

All that to say, I think that confidence plays such a major role in the development and continued success of any given team, that I believe winning in Chicago last year was HUGE for this team. I mean, look at the NBA last year. The Suns were better than the Spurs. Period. But, the Spurs had the confidence of winning it all, and I believe that is what made the difference in them winning the trophy. LeBron James wasn't "scared" of Detroit, because, no one in the East was really suppose to be that good, anyways. And he played with confidence until he met the "giant", the Spurs, and it messed with his game, his confidence, he was missing LAYUPS in the finals, all due to his mentality. Well, we didn't just beat our "giant", we kicked their ass on THEIR turf, and I think that will pay HUGE benefits MENTALLY for this team this year. (If we end up 6-10, please disregard this post :oops: )

[Packnut]

Well, I think last year's schedule was both a blessing and a curse for the Packer's season last year.

On one hand, the offensive line was simply too young, inexperienced, and, well, probably pscyologically beaten before the Bear's game even started, as far as confindence goes, after the way they played in preseason. So, in a way, I think it really hurt the confidence of a young team, to get our asses kicked in their first go-around in the NFL.

However, the good that came out of it, IMO, is that it set a precedent for them for the rest of the season, and their careers, that this ain't college no more, and the boys on the other side of the ball are kinda, big and fast. So, I think it had to help them reach back and realize if they want to keep their jobs they were going to have to bust their humps on every play in this league.

I think that we won that final game because the Bears were probably a bit unconcerned about beating us, when you go into any game thinking you're superior, you do lose an edge, and the Packers, feeling more confident with a three game win streak, knowing they almost made the playoffs, also remembering how this team kicked their ass a few months earlier, went into the game with every ounce of intensity they could muster. Thus the outcome. The Bears were probably the better team that night, but, football is a very mental game. It requires a rugged, confident, intensity to play against the type of talent they see each week, and though our young guys AND our vets were much more relaxed in their knowledge of the scheme by the season's end, I believe that they went into the game thinking "we can beat these guys, we have a good defense, and our QB is ten times better than theirs". Scoring a touchdown on that first drive was big, I think it messed with the Bear's a bit, and certainly helped the Packer's confidence. It set the tone to the game.

All that to say, I think that confidence plays such a major role in the development and continued success of any given team, that I believe winning in Chicago last year was HUGE for this team. I mean, look at the NBA last year. The Suns were better than the Spurs. Period. But, the Spurs had the confidence of winning it all, and I believe that is what made the difference in them winning the trophy. LeBron James wasn't "scared" of Detroit, because, no one in the East was really suppose to be that good, anyways. And he played with confidence until he met the "giant", the Spurs, and it messed with his game, his confidence, he was missing LAYUPS in the finals, all due to his mentality. Well, we didn't just beat our "giant", we kicked their ass on THEIR turf, and I think that will pay HUGE benefits MENTALLY for this team this year. (If we end up 6-10, please disregard this post :oops: )


Hey great idea to add that little dis-claimer at the end. I'm gonna borrow it and use it on the article I wrote about how great our D is gonna be just in case we SUCK! :lol:

[4and12to12and4]

LOL. BTW, that was a GREAT article, whether or not all in it will be determined accurate. It's the type of article that makes a TRUE Packer's fan's hair raise a little on his or her forearms (and other unmentionable areas). Very enjoyable reading. :worship:

[Packnut]

LOL. BTW, that was a GREAT article, whether or not all in it will be determined accurate. It's the type of article that makes a TRUE Packer's fan's hair raise a little on his or her forearms (and other unmentionable areas). Very enjoyable reading. :worship:

Thanks. I really do believe this D is gonna be special so hopefully they don't make a liar out of me. 8-)

[4and12to12and4]

LOL. BTW, that was a GREAT article, whether or not all in it will be determined accurate. It's the type of article that makes a TRUE Packer's fan's hair raise a little on his or her forearms (and other unmentionable areas). Very enjoyable reading. :worship:

Thanks. I really do believe this D is gonna be special so hopefully they don't make a liar out of me. 8-)

Or maybe that was just you're avatar working it's magic once again!! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: