RB Breakdown

[Bretsky]

Position-by-position: Running backs
Posted: July 24, 2007
On the Packers

Bob McGinn
E-MAIL

Green Bay - For the last decade, the Green Bay Packers ran with either the complete big back in Dorsey Levens or the breakaway muscle back in Ahman Green, with fullback William Henderson as a redoubtable escort.

From 2002-'05, the Packers enjoyed rare continuity at the position with Green, Henderson, Najeh Davenport and Tony Fisher serving as the lead four backs all four years.

Even last season, Green was still around to provide Green Bay with its eighth 1,000-yard rusher in 10 years, aided by Henderson.

Now they're all gone, replaced by a nine-man contingent that includes six players without a snap of regular-season experience and just one, Noah Herron, who even played for Green Bay prior to last season. He arrived in November 2005.

"Seven straight years Ahman and William were in the backfield," said Joe Philbin, the first-year offensive coordinator who joined the staff in '03. "That is a long time. It's a changing of the guard, really in one year. But that's life in the NFL."

After going only so far in bidding for Green, general manager Ted Thompson watched him sign with Houston. He had the cap room to go after running backs such as Travis Henry, Jamal Lewis, Chris Brown and Dominic Rhodes, not to mention a fullback group headed by Terrelle Smith and Justin Griffith.

Thompson could have traded for Willis McGahee, and he still could make a blockbuster bid for Kansas City's Larry Johnson.

If the Packers operate as usual and make no major moves, they'll be trying to make something out of maybe the least imposing depth chart in the league.

In its summer rankings, Pro Football Weekly rated the Packers' corps better than only one team, Tennessee. Earlier in the week, a personnel director for an AFC team said, "I still don't know what they're going to do at running back."

It's a fair question, a satisfactory answer to which could hold the key for a successful season.

"There's a lot of conjecture right now," Philbin said. "The big thing will be how these guys progress in the next five weeks. So to rush to judgment and say, 'Hey, we're loaded,' or to say, 'We have nothing,' I'm not ready to do either one of those things."

Vernand Morency, a shrewd trade acquisition by Thompson last September, is the front-runner, not just because he was here in '06 but also because his average in 96 rushes was an impressive 4.5 yards.

At some point, Morency could very well be challenged by rookie Brandon Jackson, a second-round draft choice.

Morency and Jackson seem almost like the same back. Each entered the league as a third-year junior, each scored 11 on the 50-question Wonderlic intelligence test and each weighs 212 pounds. Morency measured 5 feet 9 5/8 inches at the 2005 combine and Jackson measured 5-9 7/8 at the '07 combine.

The Packers haven't had a featured back weigh less than 215 since 1992, when 205-pound Vince Workman led them with 631 yards. How a relatively small back will fare in short yardage and in the NFC North late in the season also is guesswork.

For now, at least, Jackson figures to run a little harder than Morency, who is more than strong enough to break arm tackles. Jackson definitely is faster than Morency, but one personnel director said all four collegiate reports written by his team's scouts listed speed as one of Morency's strengths.

"Probably the No. 1 thing that catches your attention is his ability to make a move in the hole," Philbin said, referring to Morency. "Unless the first guy's got a real clean shot it's hard for him to take him down. Smart guy. Very serious. Very hard worker."

Although not used much as a receiver, Morency in the opinion of scouts has typical baseball player's hands, which means they're good (he played center field in the minors for four years). And, said Philbin, "We feel comfortable with his ability to pick up blitzes."

Jackson didn't emerge until his third season at Nebraska and could need time, time the Packers really don't have.

"The thing that really impressed us was he keeps his feet in the ground," Philbin said. "Therefore, he's able to change direction, able to keep pretty good balance, able to maybe absorb a hit and not go down right away. He's got good quick feet."

The unknowns on Jackson include durability and pass blocking.

Another back with the exact same dimensions, P.J. Pope, almost cracked Chicago's talented depth chart as a rookie. Said Philbin: "We feel he's more of a power type of guy."

The big back is rookie DeShawn Wynn, a 232-pounder with natural running skills and 4.47-second speed at 40 yards. But he ran too often like a little guy at Florida, which won't be tolerated in the pros.

The Packers surely would like better than Herron, whose 40 time of 4.67 pales in comparison to the others. His hope would be that some seasoning and some savvy might come in handy at cut-down time.

At fullback, holdover Brandon Miree could be pushed by rookies Ryan Powdrell, Korey Hall and Corey White, all of them are trying to make transitions from other positions. The fullback that Miree replaced last September, Vonta Leach, now is entrenched as the starter in Houston.

"It's still an attitude position . . . you want a tough guy," Philbin said. "We have to take a really, really hard look at these guys. 'EB' (running backs coach Edgar Bennett) is going to be teaching his butt off in camp."

Miree is more athletic than the aging Henderson. As a blocker, he's more finesse than collision. The Packers want him to be more physical.

Powdrell, who played all but two games at linebacker for Southern California, has ideal size, can run and catch. Hall, strictly a linebacker at Boise State, would become a strong candidate to lead the Packers' lowly special teams if he learns to lower his pads and block people.

White was a running back at Alabama-Birmingham and will practice some there in camp, but at 239 also will get a long audition at fullback.

"Guys know there's a lot of opportunity out there waiting for somebody to grab it," said Philbin said. "Part of the job of coaching is developing players. I was kidding Mike McCarthy. We're going to need a bunch of 9-on-7 because we have a lot of guys to find out about."

[CaliforniaCheez]

Breakdown?? We don't want to use that word with the Packer backfield.

I'm confident Hall will make the team. He may not beat out Miree.

Wynn can't break tackles perhaps he is a practice squad guy. Herron isn't fast enough or strong enough. I think Pope has a good chance of being the #3 RB. Jackson is the best RB. Morency will make the team.

An RB will be drafted in the first half of the Packers 2008 draft.

[wist43]

Position-by-position: Running backs
Posted: July 24, 2007
On the Packers

Bob McGinn
E-MAIL

Green Bay -

If the Packers operate as usual and make no major moves, they'll be trying to make something out of maybe the least imposing depth chart in the league.

In its summer rankings, Pro Football Weekly rated the Packers' corps better than only one team, Tennessee. Earlier in the week, a personnel director for an AFC team said, "I still don't know what they're going to do at running back."



"... least imposing depth chart in the league." That pretty much sums up our RB situation. I could tell that scout what "they're going to do at RB"... nothing.

The Packers are so far away from contending that it really doesn't matter what they do this year.

In a perfect world I'd like to see Wynn come out of nowhere and play like a bonafide #1 back, with Jackson as the backup, and Morency flipping burgers. However, Wynn will likely sulk his way right off the roster b/4 the season even starts, and since the coaching staff thinks Morency is the second coming of Barry Sanders, Walter Peyton, and Gale Sayers all rolled into one, it's likely that Morency will just be handed the job.

I would be happy if Jackson overtakes Morency by the 3rd or 4th game, and proves to be durable. I haven't seen much of him on film, but he appears to run harder and with more toughness than Morency - granted that's not hard to do, as Morency runs like a ballarina.

All in all, ranking them 31st out of 32 is pretty optimistic... pass the Kool-Aid!!! :tup:

[Zool]

Position-by-position: Running backs
Posted: July 24, 2007
On the Packers

Bob McGinn
E-MAIL

Green Bay -

If the Packers operate as usual and make no major moves, they'll be trying to make something out of maybe the least imposing depth chart in the league.

In its summer rankings, Pro Football Weekly rated the Packers' corps better than only one team, Tennessee. Earlier in the week, a personnel director for an AFC team said, "I still don't know what they're going to do at running back."



"... least imposing depth chart in the league." That pretty much sums up our RB situation. I could tell that scout what "they're going to do at RB"... nothing.

The Packers are so far away from contending that it really doesn't matter what they do this year.

In a perfect world I'd like to see Wynn come out of nowhere and play like a bonafide #1 back, with Jackson as the backup, and Morency flipping burgers. However, Wynn will likely sulk his way right off the roster b/4 the season even starts, and since the coaching staff thinks Morency is the second coming of Barry Sanders, Walter Peyton, and Gale Sayers all rolled into one, it's likely that Morency will just be handed the job.

I would be happy if Jackson overtakes Morency by the 3rd or 4th game, and proves to be durable. I haven't seen much of him on film, but he appears to run harder and with more toughness than Morency - granted that's not hard to do, as Morency runs like a ballarina.

All in all, ranking them 31st out of 32 is pretty optimistic... pass the Kool-Aid!!! :tup:

I'm curious what you think of undrafted Willie Parker? He played for UNC in college and didnt exactly light it up there (181 yards on 48 carries in his senior year) so I'm not buying anything about Jackson and his JR year at Nebraska.

Parker is 5'10 209 and put up 598 carries in the last 2 years. He's far from a big and powerful back, but he gets it done. He's about exactly the same size as Jackson, but he does have a top end gear that I'm not sure Jackson has. He does seem to be able to carry the load on a power running team.

The Steelers also have Closet McPooperson and Verron Hayes as their backups. Not exactly HoF material.

[Harlan Huckleby]

since the coaching staff thinks Morency is the second coming of Barry Sanders, Walter Peyton, and Gale Sayers all rolled into one, it's likely that Morency will just be handed the job ....Morency runs like a ballarina.

I just don't understand this attitude. Morency showed good quickness, averaged 4.6 yards per carry in his first NFL opportunities. He's not some high draft pick who is just handed a job.

Not every back carries tacklers for extra yardage. You mention Sayers and Sanders - they ran like ballerinas too.

[wist43]

I like Parker, and while he's not the biggest guy in the world, he does run pretty tough, and runs behind a very tough and physical line - something the Packers don't have. Parker's lack of size will likely affect his durability and longevity at some point I would imagine, but there are exceptions to the rule - Warrick Dunn comes to mind.

That said, just b/c a guy is listed at a given ht/wt, doesn't mean he plays to those measurables. Maurice Jones-Drew is what??? 5'7", 212lbs??? He's a mini-tank; very tough. Body type matters in terms of running style and durability. Morency runs like a wimp... doesn't matter how much weight he may have gained in the offseason, he's a slasher, and a good change of pace back, but he's simply not physical enough to be an every down back, IMO.

Don't see Morency as being able to get the job done long term... I have more hope for Jackson; and, as I said, hope he takes over the #1 spot w/in the first few games of the season.

[Bretsky]

since the coaching staff thinks Morency is the second coming of Barry Sanders, Walter Peyton, and Gale Sayers all rolled into one, it's likely that Morency will just be handed the job ....Morency runs like a ballarina.

I just don't understand this attitude. Morency showed good quickness, averaged 4.6 yards per carry in his first NFL opportunities. He's not some high draft pick who is just handed a job.

Not every back carries tacklers for extra yardage. You mention Sayers and Sanders - they ran like ballerinas too.

Playing devil's advocate, Morency had one, maybe two games in which he racked up stats to give him that 4.5 yards per carry against sub par defenses. He also looked completely lost at times, such as the Rams game I attented.

I'll give the mighty Vern a shot, but I'd agree GB RB core is in the bottom five in football on paper.

[Bretsky]

Position-by-position: Running backs
Posted: July 24, 2007
On the Packers

Bob McGinn
E-MAIL

Green Bay -

If the Packers operate as usual and make no major moves, they'll be trying to make something out of maybe the least imposing depth chart in the league.

In its summer rankings, Pro Football Weekly rated the Packers' corps better than only one team, Tennessee. Earlier in the week, a personnel director for an AFC team said, "I still don't know what they're going to do at running back."



"... least imposing depth chart in the league." That pretty much sums up our RB situation. I could tell that scout what "they're going to do at RB"... nothing.

The Packers are so far away from contending that it really doesn't matter what they do this year.

In a perfect world I'd like to see Wynn come out of nowhere and play like a bonafide #1 back, with Jackson as the backup, and Morency flipping burgers. However, Wynn will likely sulk his way right off the roster b/4 the season even starts, and since the coaching staff thinks Morency is the second coming of Barry Sanders, Walter Peyton, and Gale Sayers all rolled into one, it's likely that Morency will just be handed the job.

I would be happy if Jackson overtakes Morency by the 3rd or 4th game, and proves to be durable. I haven't seen much of him on film, but he appears to run harder and with more toughness than Morency - granted that's not hard to do, as Morency runs like a ballarina.

All in all, ranking them 31st out of 32 is pretty optimistic... pass the Kool-Aid!!! :tup:

I'm curious what you think of undrafted Willie Parker? He played for UNC in college and didnt exactly light it up there (181 yards on 48 carries in his senior year) so I'm not buying anything about Jackson and his JR year at Nebraska.

Parker is 5'10 209 and put up 598 carries in the last 2 years. He's far from a big and powerful back, but he gets it done. He's about exactly the same size as Jackson, but he does have a top end gear that I'm not sure Jackson has. He does seem to be able to carry the load on a power running team.

The Steelers also have Closet McPooperson and Verron Hayes as their backups. Not exactly HoF material.


Maybe I'm wrong here, but I think Parker has absoulute breakaway speed that Morency does not have. And he has a tough experienced OL to run behind in a power system. We might need a tougher back as we do not yet have that.

[HarveyWallbangers]

RB is the one position where rookies can shine. In all honesty, I'm not that worried about the RB position.

My concerns boil down to:
1) Finding WRs for subpackages.
2) Improvement in the interior OL.
3) Finding anyone serviceable at TE.
4) Finding a starting safety to replace Manuel.
5) The starting corners staying healthy.
6) Finding CBs for subpackages.
7) Getting better special teams play overall.

Of these, #3, #5, and #7 are the ones that I'm most worried about. At WR, CB and S, we have some young players that could surprise. I think you'll see improvement in the OL.

[Bretsky]

RB is the one position where rookies can shine. In all honesty, I'm not that worried about the RB position.

My concerns boil down to:
1) Finding WRs for subpackages.
2) Improvement in the interior OL.
3) Finding anyone serviceable at TE.
4) Finding a starting safety to replace Manuel.
5) The starting corners staying healthy.
6) Finding CBs for subpackages.
7) Getting better special teams play overall.

Of these, #3, #5, and #7 are the ones that I'm most worried about. At WR, CB and S, we have some young players that could surprise. I think you'll see improvement in the OL.


I'd add #1 to my list of extreme concerns and concur with the rest of your list.

If we can't find a solid #3 then those two problems together bode poorly for the offense.

[Cheesehead Craig]

It will all come down to how the OL plays. If they can be better blockers, then our RB by committee should do the job just fine. If we don't have the HR threat, fine. I'm happy if both Morency and Jackson avg about 4.25 yds/carry.

[wist43]

RB is the one position where rookies can shine. In all honesty, I'm not that worried about the RB position.

My concerns boil down to:
1) Finding WRs for subpackages.
2) Improvement in the interior OL.
3) Finding anyone serviceable at TE.
4) Finding a starting safety to replace Manuel.
5) The starting corners staying healthy.
6) Finding CBs for subpackages.
7) Getting better special teams play overall.

Of these, #3, #5, and #7 are the ones that I'm most worried about. At WR, CB and S, we have some young players that could surprise. I think you'll see improvement in the OL.

Good list Harv... there's more of course; but it serves to show just how many holes/weaknesses/questions the Packers have going into this season.

So many things have to work out perfectly for the Packers to be competitive - is it any wonder national writers look at the Packers and see a team that has little chance of winning.

[Zool]

Position-by-position: Running backs
Posted: July 24, 2007
On the Packers

Bob McGinn
E-MAIL

Green Bay -

If the Packers operate as usual and make no major moves, they'll be trying to make something out of maybe the least imposing depth chart in the league.

In its summer rankings, Pro Football Weekly rated the Packers' corps better than only one team, Tennessee. Earlier in the week, a personnel director for an AFC team said, "I still don't know what they're going to do at running back."



"... least imposing depth chart in the league." That pretty much sums up our RB situation. I could tell that scout what "they're going to do at RB"... nothing.

The Packers are so far away from contending that it really doesn't matter what they do this year.

In a perfect world I'd like to see Wynn come out of nowhere and play like a bonafide #1 back, with Jackson as the backup, and Morency flipping burgers. However, Wynn will likely sulk his way right off the roster b/4 the season even starts, and since the coaching staff thinks Morency is the second coming of Barry Sanders, Walter Peyton, and Gale Sayers all rolled into one, it's likely that Morency will just be handed the job.

I would be happy if Jackson overtakes Morency by the 3rd or 4th game, and proves to be durable. I haven't seen much of him on film, but he appears to run harder and with more toughness than Morency - granted that's not hard to do, as Morency runs like a ballarina.

All in all, ranking them 31st out of 32 is pretty optimistic... pass the Kool-Aid!!! :tup:

I'm curious what you think of undrafted Willie Parker? He played for UNC in college and didnt exactly light it up there (181 yards on 48 carries in his senior year) so I'm not buying anything about Jackson and his JR year at Nebraska.

Parker is 5'10 209 and put up 598 carries in the last 2 years. He's far from a big and powerful back, but he gets it done. He's about exactly the same size as Jackson, but he does have a top end gear that I'm not sure Jackson has. He does seem to be able to carry the load on a power running team.

The Steelers also have Closet McPooperson and Verron Hayes as their backups. Not exactly HoF material.


Maybe I'm wrong here, but I think Parker has absoulute breakaway speed that Morency does not have. And he has a tough experienced OL to run behind in a power system. We might need a tougher back as we do not yet have that.
Im about 10% sold that Morency is going to even start this year. If Jackson gets into camp on time, I think he'll end up starting.

I know Parker is fast, I said he has the top gear that Jackson doesnt have, but he carried the ball a ton the last 2 years without wearing down.

Summary, I hope that Jackson looks as good on the field as he does in the youtube clips. He wont outrun everyone but i'll take a solid 4.5ypc.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Maybe I'm wrong here, but I think Parker has absoulute breakaway speed that Morency does not have. And he has a tough experienced OL to run behind in a power system. We might need a tougher back as we do not yet have that.

Parker is one of the fastest RBs in the league. Parker doesn't have a lot of power, and he's smaller than Morency. Tomlin wants to spell Parker more than Cowher--which is probably smart. Morency isn't going to be Parker, but his speed is solid. I think there's a good chance that the Packers will be fine at RB. Most of the success or failure of the running game will depend on how much the OL improves.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Good list Harv... there's more of course; but it serves to show just how many holes/weaknesses/questions the Packers have going into this season.

Fortunately, many of the teams in the NFC have a similar list.

[The Leaper]

Summary, I hope that Jackson looks as good on the field as he does in the youtube clips. He wont outrun everyone but i'll take a solid 4.5ypc.

Well, Morency DID average 4.5 ypc last year...and you are ready to run him out of town and let Jackson take over because of YouTube. That's ridiculous. You could make Robert Ferguson look like Jerry Rice with a 2 minute YouTube edit. I'm sure Morency's 2 minute media clip was pretty convincing too.

Jackson isn't likely to start week 1. Morency has 2 years of NFL experience under his belt, which means he will likely be better in the intangibles of playing the position, as well as having a better grasp of the Packer playbook.

The bottom line is that BOTH of these guys are going to be utilized. We aren't likely to see either one suddenly get the lion share of carries if both are healthy. Since neither is proven over the long term, keeping both fresh is the best strategy for maximizing their performance.

[Zool]

Summary, I hope that Jackson looks as good on the field as he does in the youtube clips. He wont outrun everyone but i'll take a solid 4.5ypc.

Well, Morency DID average 4.5 ypc last year...and you are ready to run him out of town and let Jackson take over because of YouTube. That's ridiculous. You could make Robert Ferguson look like Jerry Rice with a 2 minute YouTube edit. I'm sure Morency's YouTube clip was pretty convincing too.

Jackson isn't likely to start week 1. Morency has 2 years of NFL experience under his belt, which means he will likely be better in the intangibles of playing the position, as well as having a better grasp of the Packer playbook.

The bottom line is that BOTH of these guys are going to be utilized. We aren't likely to see either one suddenly get the lion share of carries if both are healthy. Since neither is proven over the long term, keeping both fresh is the best strategy for maximizing their performance.There's a reason he was traded straight up for Samkon Gado I think. He had 2 good games, but Wisper had a couple good games too. So did Samkon. I want someone who will be good for a couple seasons not a couple games.

I'm not basing my expectations on a youtube clip obviously. I'm basing it on the fact that Jackson as a 2nd round pick. Nice tho.

[run pMc]

Morency probably starts the season and Jackson hopefully starts by Week 4 or 5. Assuming both stay healthy, it's going to be RB by committee all season. Durability is a concern, so splitting carries mitigates that and eases Action Jackson (LOL) into the starting role.

DEN has had lots of success using mid-to-late round draft picks with the ZBS (Mike Bell, Olandis Gary, Terrell Davis); Morency and Jackson are 2nd rounders. Based on the postings, it looks like most people think it will come down to the OL...I agree. With Favre at QB plus good blocking, the rest will follow. I do think they will have trouble against the league's better defenses (Top 10).

[The Leaper]

I'm not basing my expectations on a youtube clip obviously. I'm basing it on the fact that Jackson as a 2nd round pick. Nice tho.

Jackson was the 63rd pick overall as a VERY late 2nd round pick.

Morency was the 73rd pick overall as an early 3rd round pick.

I don't see why you would base your thoughts on why Jackson is clearly a better back based on where they were selected in the draft. There really shouldn't be much of a difference in talent between them.

Yes, Morency was traded for Gado. If you also recall, Ahman Green was traded for Fred Vinson...so trying to relate value into who someone was traded for isn't all that accurate either.

Morency has been relatively effective in the few chances he's had behind pretty poor OLs in Houston and Green Bay. If the OL improves, there is no reason to believe Morency can't continue to be effective with more experience and more chances. The only drawback is that he may not have the durability...which is also a concern with Jackson. That is why both are going to share the load.

[Cheesehead Craig]

Summary, I hope that Jackson looks as good on the field as he does in the youtube clips. He wont outrun everyone but i'll take a solid 4.5ypc.

Well, Morency DID average 4.5 ypc last year...and you are ready to run him out of town and let Jackson take over because of YouTube. That's ridiculous. You could make Robert Ferguson look like Jerry Rice with a 2 minute YouTube edit. I'm sure Morency's YouTube clip was pretty convincing too.

Jackson isn't likely to start week 1. Morency has 2 years of NFL experience under his belt, which means he will likely be better in the intangibles of playing the position, as well as having a better grasp of the Packer playbook.

The bottom line is that BOTH of these guys are going to be utilized. We aren't likely to see either one suddenly get the lion share of carries if both are healthy. Since neither is proven over the long term, keeping both fresh is the best strategy for maximizing their performance.There's a reason he was traded straight up for Samkon Gado I think. He had 2 good games, but Wisper had a couple good games too. So did Samkon. I want someone who will be good for a couple seasons not a couple games.

I'm not basing my expectations on a youtube clip obviously. I'm basing it on the fact that Jackson as a 2nd round pick. Nice tho.
Can't always judge talent by who they were traded for. Look who we gave up for Ahman Green.

[4and12to12and4]

Good list Harv... there's more of course; but it serves to show just how many holes/weaknesses/questions the Packers have going into this season.

Fortunately, many of the teams in the NFC have a similar list.

In fact, my friends, who unfortunately are Bears fans, here in the chicagoland area, are also concerned about their wideout situation, and most are pissed off about losing Thomas Jones. So, even the NFC's representative to the SuperBowl last year has these same issues. To be honest, I like Benson, but he does seem to be injury-prone. Heck, I watched the replay when he went down in the Superbowl and am still trying to figure out how he got injured.

As far as wideouts go, I think we are in a MUCH better situation than Chicago. Not that comparing them to Chicago means much, but then again, they did go to the SuperBowl with those receivers.

I am a fan of Morency, and like him more than it seems most here do. He showed excellent cutbacks skills, quickness, elusiveness from the first tackler, and didn't really get a whole lot of opportunities. His size doesn't bother me at all (See Barry Sanders, Maurice-Drew, etc.). He seems to possess decent breakaway speed. To be honest, I'm happily surprised to hear that Jackson is considered faster. Morency is not a slow runner by any stretch of the imagination.

I am not really worried about RB. I'm more worried about this OL scheme we are running. It better improve drastically, especially the backside blocking, or NO RB is going anywhere. Look at Edgerrin James. He's with the explosive pass-happy Colts, and he's considered one of the best backs in the world, partially because nobody playing against the Colt's give a shit about the running attack, they are doing everything in their power just to stop Peyton from throwing 600 yards. He goes to Arizona, and he might as well have gone to NFL Europa. He disappears off the face of the map. Morency, Jackson, Herron, whatever, block somebody on the backside, and quit diving at people's knees and falling two feet short to suck a face full of grass, and maybe our RB's will have some success this year!!
8-)

[Patler]

Morency had 5 decent games:

Philly - 26/99
Arizona - 11/101
San Fran - 7/69
Detroit - 7/54
Chicago - 9/37

against NE he had only 1 carry, but for 5 yards.

In those 6 games he was 61/365 for about a 6.0/carry average. He missed 2 games due to injury, was not with the Packers for game #1, and had no carries in game #2. In the remaining 6 games in GB he was 30/56 for a 1.9/carry average.

[Zool]

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/games/MoreVe00.htm#2006

[4and12to12and4]

Morency had 5 decent games:

Philly - 26/99
Arizona - 11/101
San Fran - 7/69
Detroit - 7/54
Chicago - 9/37

against NE he had only 1 carry, but for 5 yards.

In those 6 games he was 61/365 for about a 6.0/carry average. He missed 2 games due to injury, was not with the Packers for game #1, and had no carries in game #2. In the remaining 6 games in GB he was 30/56 for a 1.9/carry average.

Not to make light of those stats Patler (that would be heresy :P ) I just think we have the stallions, we just need the driver to clear the way. (See Edgerrin James' career).

[HarveyWallbangers]

Morency had 5 decent games:

Philly - 26/99
Arizona - 11/101
San Fran - 7/69
Detroit - 7/54
Chicago - 9/37

against NE he had only 1 carry, but for 5 yards.

In those 6 games he was 61/365 for about a 6.0/carry average. He missed 2 games due to injury, was not with the Packers for game #1, and had no carries in game #2. In the remaining 6 games in GB he was 30/56 for a 1.9/carry average.

Well, I've made the argument that Morency's 4.6 yards/carry was inflated. It was higher than Ahman Green's yards/carry, but Ahman generally went against tougher run defenses. However, that doesn't mean he's destined to suck. He'll probably be closer to 4.0 yards/carry, but that still isn't bad. If the OL improves, he could be solid. It should be pointed out that he averaged 4.0 yards/carry running behind a poor Houston OL in 2006 (although 46 carries is a small sample). As to Patler's stats, 30 carries in the other 6 games is also a very small sample.

[Jerry Tagge]

What makes anyone think Morency is a back who can carry the ball 20-25 times a game?

He's a nice backup, but that's all he is, a backup.

[The Shadow]

I think the tandem of Morency and Jackson will be a pleasant surprise - and I also suspect P.J. Pope will be the 3rd back.
Having similar kinds of backs does not require adjustments with the O-Line, and that could be a plus.
I always thought things got a little offtrack when Davenport came in for Green.
Young, fresh legs. Let em run!

[retailguy]

Morency had 5 decent games:

Philly - 26/99
Arizona - 11/101
San Fran - 7/69
Detroit - 7/54
Chicago - 9/37

against NE he had only 1 carry, but for 5 yards.

In those 6 games he was 61/365 for about a 6.0/carry average. He missed 2 games due to injury, was not with the Packers for game #1, and had no carries in game #2. In the remaining 6 games in GB he was 30/56 for a 1.9/carry average.

Well, I've made the argument that Morency's 4.6 yards/carry was inflated. It was higher than Ahman Green's yards/carry, but Ahman generally went against tougher run defenses. However, that doesn't mean he's destined to suck. He'll probably be closer to 4.0 yards/carry, but that still isn't bad. If the OL improves, he could be solid. It should be pointed out that he averaged 4.0 yards/carry running behind a poor Houston OL in 2006 (although 46 carries is a small sample). As to Patler's stats, 30 carries in the other 6 games is also a very small sample.


And the small sample is where the issues lie for me. See, it depends on WHEN those small samples occurred. That's why most backups have a better avg yd per carry.

The real test is what happens when the back is given 15-30 carries a game. Morency averaged less than 10 in the games he played. Can he be as explosive on carry 18 or 28 that he can be on carry 5? I don't think so. In any case, that question has yet to be answered.

The YPC argument is incomplete. The assumption is that he'll maintain that YPC when the carries triple. There is little basis that supports or doesn't support that conclusion.

Morency and the rest of the backfield are HUGE unknowns. Remember Lamont Jordan? He was supposed to "fix" the Oakland backfield. It didn't work. Then Chester Taylor came along and DID fix Minnesota's backfield. That guy should have a gold star 1000 times over for the effort he put forth with the rest of the Vikings miserable offense. It could go either way. But maintaining that it'll be fine because of his YPC is just foolish.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Difference between Morency and Jordan is that he has had success with this team, in this system (which seems to suit him), and behind this OL. Sure, when an RB has his carries is important, but he showed well in the games where Ahman was out--which means in starting situations. I don't know that he can handle it 25 times/game. I know he held up fine with a heavy workload at Oklahoma State. He's not that small. Plenty of RBs that carry 320 times/year are no bigger than he is. Then again, 25 carries/game = 400 carries/year--which few RBs this side of Larry Johnson have been asked to do. I don't see anything wrong with dividing the carries up. The #1 RB gets 15 carries/game, the #2 RB gets 10-12 carries/game, and the #3 RB gets a few.

I think RB is one of the most overrated positions on the field. There are a few RBs that are not (LT, LJ, Faulk). They can carry a bad offense. Most RBs are as good as their OL. (See Willis McGahee, Edgerrin James, Thomas Jones, Clinton Portis, any Denver RB, Ronnie Brown, Cadillac Williams, etc.) When Ahman has been injured, Najeh goes for 100 yards. Morency goes for 100 yards. Samkon goes for 100 yards. Noah Friggin' Herron goes for 100 yards. Tony Fisher goes for, well, 60 yards.

[4and12to12and4]

What makes anyone think Morency is a back who can carry the ball 20-25 times a game?

He's a nice backup, but that's all he is, a backup.

So, let me get this straight, I'm just checking our logic here, since Morency has never been given a chance to carry the ball 20 to 25 times, it proves he can't do it?

I'm going on paper (sort of) right now to end this silliness. I have played a couple of sports here and there. This whole "can he carry the load crap" is just that, "crap". When most RB's are spoken of in this way, what is really being asked is "can the guy run good, can he produce in the NFL?" If you're big, fast, and strong enough to get to the level that these guys are at, do you really think that they aren't capable once they're there to carry a ball 20 times in three friggin' hours? Give me a break. He either is a good running back or not. It has nothing to do with "will he be gassed in the second quarter?" So, is Morency good enough to start or not? That is the question? The second question is whether or not Jackson is better. I can already tell you from what I've seen I'd rather have Morency than Herron, not that Herron isn't a tool that can be utilized. He simply, IMO, isn't as strong, and doesn't cut as quick. He has plenty of speed, but that's about it. Having said that, he carved up a defense or two last year, when needed. So, what do I know?

[Patler]

When Ahman has been injured, Najeh goes for 100 yards. Morency goes for 100 yards. Samkon goes for 100 yards. Noah Friggin' Herron goes for 100 yards. Tony Fisher goes for, well, 60 yards.

Now, lets be fair to Tony!
In 2002, in successive weeks vs

Chicago - 17/91 (after Green was hurt)
Minnesota - 25/96 (started in place of Green)

Not the magical 100, but closer to it than to 60!

[Patler]

In 2006, only 9 backs averaged 20 or more carries per game, and only 8 did it while playing 14 or more games.

In 2005, only 11 backs averaged 20 or more carries per game, and only 10 did it while playing 14 or more games.

In 2004, only 12 backs averaged 20 or more carries per game, and only 9 did it while playing 14 or more games.

[4and12to12and4]

In 2006, only 9 backs averaged 20 or more carries per game, and only 8 did it while playing 14 or more games.

In 2005, only 11 backs averaged 20 or more carries per game, and only 10 did it while playing 14 or more games.

In 2004, only 12 backs averaged 20 or more carries per game, and only 9 did it while playing 14 or more games.

That's why we keep this guy around. :lol:

Great stats. I'm not surprised, it seems as though the Green Bay Packers started more than the Lambeau Leap in the NFL, it seems they started the two-headed backfield also. (I know other teams did it before we did, but we won a SuperBowl doing it).

[BallHawk]

Morency showed you, at times, that he could be a solid starting back. Other times, he looked nothing more then a back-up. However, one thing is certain. Both Jackson and Morency have to perform at a solid level. If one of them doesn't pull their weight, we're going to have issues.

And I'm rooting for PJ Pope. Anything to get Herron out of Green and Gold.

[4and12to12and4]

Morency showed you, at times, that he could be a solid starting back. Other times, he looked nothing more then a back-up. However, one thing is certain. Both Jackson and Morency have to perform at a solid level. If one of them doesn't pull their weight, we're going to have issues.

And I'm rooting for PJ Pope. Anything to get Herron out of Green and Gold.

This is my 3rd post regarding the issue that the talent of the RB is far less important in today's NFL than the scheme and guys ahead of him (or her :wink: ). Larry Johnson looked like a second string running back in the playoffs against the Colts defense, so, does that mean, he sucks, and "can't handle a first-string load? That is how we're judging Morency. The fact is, Morency, or Herron, for that matter, haven't gotten a chance to prove themselves one way or the other. He simply hasn't had the playing time to prove himself one way or the other. He certainly doesn't seem to be another LT or Bush, but, IMO, he could be better than average, and work very well with our system. I agree, I'd like to see Pope succeed, first of all, it would be a great story, and he seems like a nice kid, but, I hope that Jackson comes out and blows everybody up on defense and proves he was worth a second round pick. One way or the other, once again, if our o-line doesn't stay healthy and continue improving, especially on the backside blocking aspect of this scheme, ALL our RB's are going to be hanging around the backfield most of the day, regardless of their talent.

[Bretsky]

In 2006, only 9 backs averaged 20 or more carries per game, and only 8 did it while playing 14 or more games.

In 2005, only 11 backs averaged 20 or more carries per game, and only 10 did it while playing 14 or more games.

In 2004, only 12 backs averaged 20 or more carries per game, and only 9 did it while playing 14 or more games.

The stat machine is back; where have you been ? I've been throwing out blubber left and right from rote memory and rarely have I been busted :lol:

[Zool]

The guys ahead of Morency in Houston were pretty much nothing, and he still couldnt take the starting role from Wali Lundy or Ron Dayne. I don't know if Morency has enough talent to be an NFL back or not. It would be a great surprise if he does and I would welcome it, but I'm not going to bet on it happening.

How's this for an anomaly, Morency ended up playing against the Eagles twice last year. Wonder how many times thats happened against a team not in your division in the regular season.

[RashanGary]

It's going to be a fun TC, Preseason and hopefully regular season. These questions are all going to begin to be answered in a few short days.

[HarveyWallbangers]

The guys ahead of Morency in Houston were pretty much nothing, and he still couldnt take the starting role from Wali Lundy or Ron Dayne. I don't know if Morency has enough talent to be an NFL back or not. It would be a great surprise if he does and I would welcome it, but I'm not going to bet on it happening.

How's this for an anomaly, Morency ended up playing against the Eagles twice last year. Wonder how many times thats happened against a team not in your division in the regular season.

Again, some teams do make a mistake. Seattle wanted to ship Ahman Green out for very little. I don't know what happened. His first year he was backing up a pretty good RB in Domanick Davis (Domanick Williams now). Last year, I know Lundy surprised some people in the preseason. I don't know if they liked Morency or not, but maybe Sherm talked Gado up so much that Houston thought they'd take a chance on him. After his success in the 2005 season, there were a lot of people enamored with Gado's size/speed combination.

[retailguy]

In 2006, only 9 backs averaged 20 or more carries per game, and only 8 did it while playing 14 or more games.

In 2005, only 11 backs averaged 20 or more carries per game, and only 10 did it while playing 14 or more games.

In 2004, only 12 backs averaged 20 or more carries per game, and only 9 did it while playing 14 or more games.

The stat machine is back; where have you been ? I've been throwing out blubber left and right from rote memory and rarely have I been busted :lol:

I call you on it every once in a while... but there is so much, I cannot keep up. I need help. :P