The Turtle Speaks

[Packnut]

Much of the general manager’s 19½-minute speech today at Lambeau Field was a simple laundry list of players at each position group, with a short comment about a handful of them. But he also used some of an otherwise mundane talk to argue that his philosophy of heavily draft-oriented roster building is the smart way to do business in the NFL and not necessarily a slower path to becoming a winner than depending on free agency more heavily.

After reviewing the team’s 2006 season for several minutes today, the understated Thompson said he wanted to clear up what he considered a misconception: That he’s building with the thought of winning a couple years down the road.

“I want you guys to be clear on this because you’re my bosses,” Thompson said. “We want to win, and we want to win now. We like where we are, we are getting better, and like I said, through the individual growth of our team, some new additions and just toughness, I think we’re going to be fine. We’re going to win some games.”

Thompson alluded a couple of times in his speech to the fan unrest he’s perceived about his management decisions. When going over the defensive backs, for instance, he noted with a touch of sarcasm that Frank Walker, who’s in the running for the No. 3 cornerback job, was the lone player he signed in the Packers’ uneventful offseason in the free-agent market.

Also, the last time Thompson faced a large gathering of Packers fans, the crowd was far more hostile: at the Lambeau Field Atrium in late April, after he’d selected defensive tackle Justin Harrell rather than a receiver in the first round of the NFL draft.

Thompson, talking to a far more receptive crowd of more than 11,000 shareholders today, joked about the fans’ reaction that day.

“I was booed for it,” he said of the Harrell selection. “I think in the long run it will be OK, just relax. He’s a very good player, an outstanding human being, and he’s going to add some value to our group.”

Thompson also emphasized a point he’s been making all offseason, that he’s looking for significant improvement from within his young team to better the Packers’ 8-8 mark last year. Thompson has made that point repeatedly when speaking to reporters this offseason when explaining his general lack of interest in what he considered an especially weak free-agent class.

Last year, the Packers started two and sometimes three rookies on the offensive line (Daryn Colledge, Jason Spitz and Tony Moll), one at linebacker (A.J. Hawk), and another at receiver (Greg Jennings), plus two second-year pros on defense (safety Nick Collins and linebacker Brady Poppinga). This year they could have a rookie starting at halfback (Brandon Jackson), another at defensive line (Harrell) and other young players possibly moving into starting roles such as Marviel Underwood or rookie Aaron Rouse at safety.

“We’ve acquired over the last couple years a lot of young players, we spent a lot of time developing an offseason program,” Thompson said. “We’ve brought guys in, (training) specialists, to test every player on our roster, to pinpoint areas they need to improve, also improve areas where they might be overdeveloped and cause muscle pulls, things like that.

“We think this offseason has helped with our core (conditioning) dynamic, helped with our flexibility, and I think our players are going to be confident. We’ve always said the best way to build a team is to build from within, because you have these players already. Just to turn guys over and over and over every year doesn’t make sense.”

Thompson also briefly talked about the performance of Mike McCarthy, the coach he hired last year to replace Mike Sherman. The Packers closed the season with four wins and finished 8-8.

“First and foremost, I think Mike and his staff did an outstanding job of holding this team together,” Thompson said. “None of these (coaches) has ever been bowed or anything else when it comes to taking these young players and developing them. They relish it.”

Thompson made mostly perfunctory remarks when he went through the roster by position group. Probably his most expansive comment came at tight end, where veteran Bubba Franks could lose his starting job to Donald Lee. Three others — Zac Alcorn, Tory Humphrey and seventh-round draft pick Clark Harris — are in the running for three or perhaps four roster spots.

“At this position we do need more production,” Thompson said. “We expect this to be a good group when it’s all said and done. We have some guys here — Humphrey and Alcorn — that you guys might not be familiar with. They’re good athletes and they want to be good players and our coaches are working hard with them. We’ll see how it goes. Bubba’s been a good football player here for a long time. He had a down season last year, we look for him to have a comeback season.”

[Packnut]

"We'll see how it goes"???????????????

[retailguy]

"We'll see how it goes"???????????????

That would be called "Turtle Confidence".

[Scott Campbell]

"We'll see how it goes"???????????????


Were you expecting the Gettysburg Address?

[retailguy]

"We'll see how it goes"???????????????


Were you expecting the Gettysburg Address?

How about a "guarantee"? But, you know he did say


"We'll win SOME games".

Since 3 qualifies as "some" I guess he's correct without going too far out on the limb, huh?

[Packnut]

"We'll see how it goes"???????????????


Were you expecting the Gettysburg Address?

Nope, I expected to sign Eric Johnson at 2 mill for 1 year. Almost about the same cash spent on the Jones severence pay. :evil:

At least with Johnson we would'nt have the ole "we'll see how it goes". We'd have a TE who can move the sticks......... :idea:

[RashanGary]

I, too, am excited about the young players with the good season and now productive off season under their belts. This is going to be a very fun TC, preseason and regular season.

[Bretsky]

Am I stuck with this Dam Signature for the entire season ???

Some have Turtle Confidence.

I would be labled as a Turtle Troll; I troll around daily shaking my head with my lack of patience

[retailguy]

Am I stuck with this Dam Signature for the entire season ???



Yes. And next season too. enjoy!

[retailguy]

I, too, am excited about the young players with the good season and now productive off season under their belts. This is going to be a very fun TC, preseason and regular season.

Remember.... The words of the turtle. "We'll win some games". Whoo hoo. Enjoy. :wink:

[Cheesehead Craig]

Am I stuck with this Dam Signature for the entire season ???

Some have Turtle Confidence.

I would be labled as a Turtle Troll; I troll around daily shaking my head with my lack of patience
I'm actually waiting for it to get to be a bigger signature. There's certainly enough material to double it's size at this point.

[Joemailman]

Am I stuck with this Dam Signature for the entire season ???



Yes. And next season too. enjoy!

Did TT say anything about Bretsky's sig?

[retailguy]

Am I stuck with this Dam Signature for the entire season ???



Yes. And next season too. enjoy!

Did TT say anything about Bretsky's sig?

Yes, it's payback for the crummy avatar. He misses the dancing blonde.

[the_idle_threat]

"We'll see how it goes"???????????????


Were you expecting the Gettysburg Address?

Nope, I expected to sign Eric Johnson at 2 mill for 1 year. Almost about the same cash spent on the Jones severence pay. :evil:

At least with Johnson we would'nt have the ole "we'll see how it goes". We'd have a TE who can move the sticks......... :idea:

......................until he gets hurt. With a guy that fragile, you have to "see how it goes."

If the over-under on games played by Johnson this year was 8, I'd probably take the under.

But even if Johnson stays healthy for most of the season, I definitely beleive that the Packers' leading TE (whoever that is) will have at least comparable yarda (within 50) and more touchdowns than Johnson in 2007.

[Joemailman]

Am I stuck with this Dam Signature for the entire season ???



Yes. And next season too. enjoy!

Did TT say anything about Bretsky's sig?

Yes, it's payback for the crummy avatar. He misses the dancing blonde.

Oops. I found that photo for Bretsky's avatar. :oops: As for the dancing blonde, I've heard that a certain Packerrat was threatening to sue if he didn't take that down.

[retailguy]

Am I stuck with this Dam Signature for the entire season ???



Yes. And next season too. enjoy!

Did TT say anything about Bretsky's sig?

Yes, it's payback for the crummy avatar. He misses the dancing blonde.

Oops. I found that photo for Bretsky's avatar. :oops: As for the dancing blonde, I've heard that a certain Packerrat was threatening to sue if he didn't take that down.

really? I get left out of all the good gossip.

[Bretsky]

"We'll see how it goes"???????????????


Were you expecting the Gettysburg Address?

Nope, I expected to sign Eric Johnson at 2 mill for 1 year. Almost about the same cash spent on the Jones severence pay. :evil:

At least with Johnson we would'nt have the ole "we'll see how it goes". We'd have a TE who can move the sticks......... :idea:

......................until he gets hurt. With a guy that fragile, you have to "see how it goes."

If the over-under on games played by Johnson this year was 8, I'd probably take the under.

But even if Johnson stays healthy for most of the season, I definitely beleive that the Packers' leading TE (whoever that is) will have at least comparable yarda (within 50) and more touchdowns than Johnson in 2007.


If Johnson was signed by Green Bay and healthy for all of the year, I'd put a load of money on him having a better year than Bubba Franks, Donald Lee, or the other NFL Europe guys TT has brought in to compete. This position is somewhere between below average to abysmal.

[HarveyWallbangers]

I would have liked to take a chance on the guy, but there's probably a reason he signed a 1y/$2M contract. Dude had one phenomenal season, but he has 110 receptions, 5 TDs, and averaged under 9 yards/reception in his other 5 season combined. I've moved on. It's not like we passed on a sure bet improvement to our TE group. He's probably as likely to miss 9 games as play 9 games.

Can't say that I feel good about the TE position though. Then again, Mark Chmura went from a practice squad player to a Pro Bowler. I'll have to wait to judge the group until I see how the rookie looks and see if their young TEs have indeed improved. I have to hope that what the coaches see in these guys is real.

[Bretsky]

The coaches witnessed this miserable group last year. And they didn't give Donald Lee much of a chance even when the production was so low so they must not have seen a whole lot in him.

Shocking

[HarveyWallbangers]

The coaches witnessed this miserable group last year. And they didn't give Donald Lee much of a chance even when the production was so low so they must not have seen a whole lot in him.

Shocking

I can't argue it much, but couldn't the same be said for the likes of Cullen Jenkins before they started him late in the season. Sometimes it takes guys awhile to reach their potential. I'm not very confident in this group, but I think Lee has the physical abilities to be a starter.

[Bretsky]

The coaches witnessed this miserable group last year. And they didn't give Donald Lee much of a chance even when the production was so low so they must not have seen a whole lot in him.

Shocking

I can't argue it much, but couldn't the same be said for the likes of Cullen Jenkins before they started him late in the season. Sometimes it takes guys awhile to reach their potential. I'm not very confident in this group, but I think Lee has the physical abilities to be a starter.


I've always been very intrigued by Lee's speed. He seems fluent and he has the speed to stretch the field. I was baffled at last year.

I thought Lee would have received loads of opportunities last year. But since he didn't my assumption is the coaches are not that high on him.

Patler has pointed out a few times he drops a lot of balls; maybe that is it. Who knows.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Alcorn is somewhat intriguing with his measurables. I wonder if Lee didn't get a lot of playing time because he isn't near the blocker Bubba and even Martin is, and they kept their TEs in to block quite a bit. That doesn't explain all of his failures, but I'm not writing him off yet.

Alcorn hoping to catch on this season
By RICHARD PUFALL, JSO

Green Bay - Zac Alcorn is a fast, pass-catching tight end for the Green Bay Packers with one glaring omission on his résumé: Alcorn has yet to catch a pass in the National Football League.

Catching the ball is what Alcorn does best, but in a brief trial during his rookie season last year, he didn't have a chance to do so. Alcorn played in six games and was inactive once after being signed from the practice squad on Nov. 18. He saw most of his action on special teams and played just eight snaps with the offense.

But Green Bay head coach Mike McCarthy took notice, saying of Alcorn: "The guy has the best hands on our team."

Alcorn knows he can catch the ball in the NFL, but first he must grab a spot on the roster in the training camp competition, which begins Saturday. Five tight ends are in the mix for what could be three or four jobs. Last season, the Packers carried four tight ends on the roster, mostly for blocking help to protect a green and growing offensive line.

Right now, veteran tight ends Bubba Franks and Donald Lee are leading the competition, largely by default.

Green Bay lost its best tight end when David Martin signed as a free agent with the Miami Dolphins. Martin caught 21 passes for 198 yards and two touchdowns in 2006.

Franks matched his career-low with 25 catches for 232 yards and zero touchdowns.

Lee, who looms as the starter right now, caught just 10 passes for 150 yards without a TD.

As a group, the tight ends caught just 56 passes for 580 yards and two touchdowns, so that means there is also opportunity at the position for Tory Humphrey and rookie Clark Harris who, like Alcorn, have not caught a pass in the NFL.

Alcorn knows what he must do to win a job.

"Basically, what they told me is that I really need to improve on my blocking," Alcorn said. "I think I'm taking steps toward that. I know I really improved from last year. That's my main focus, to be a good functional blocker."

Alcorn caught the ball with frequency and effectiveness at Black Hills State University in Spearfish, S.D. He grabbed 85 passes for 1,220 yards (14.4 average) and 12 touchdowns in 20 games for the Yellow Jackets. Alcorn was an NAIA All-American, and believes some of that success can translate to the NFL.

"That's my strength, catching passes," Alcorn said. "Catching passes is where I fit in best on the football field. That's why I said I need to work on my blocking. I feel I've got a lot of natural instincts, I guess, as a receiver. And that helps me a lot."

His athletic ability complements those instincts. Alcorn was a three-sport athlete at Chadron High School in Nebraska where he was an all-state football and basketball player and threw the discus for the track team. He is 6-foot-4, 255 pounds, runs 40 yards in 4.6 seconds and has a 34-inch vertical jump.

"He's a guy that really catches the ball extremely well," said offensive coordinator Joe Philbin. "He's athletic, he's got good size. He has a good knack of finding the open seams in coverage. And he has a very good feel in the passing game. So he's a guy who kind of jumps at you the way he catches the football. It never gets to his body, he's got real nice hands. We're excited to see what he can do when he puts the pads on."

Alcorn will put the pads on Saturday with Brett Favre and the rest of Green Bay's offense. And Philbin, like Alcorn, sees the young tight end's blocking game needing to catch up to his receiving.

"I'd say that's fair right now," Philbin said of Alcorn, 26. "There are probably some different techniques and fundamentals that he probably wasn't used to from his background coming here. I think it's taken him a little while to get adjusted to that. I expect him to make strides. He's worked awfully hard in the running game as well, and at that position you can't just do one of those things. You've got to do 'em both."

Last season, Green Bay's tight ends were asked to do more blocking than receiving, protecting a young offensive line in which three rookies played key roles. Often the tight ends were lined up in the backfield or the slot with a block-first focus. That line has vastly improved, which should open up the offense for the tight ends.

"My main focus this off-season was to work on my blocking and my technique," Alcorn said. "But you can't just throw your strengths to the side and just work on your weaknesses. It's a real big focus of mine and I pride myself in being a good receiver and trying to be the best I can. I always work on my receiving abilities, too, but I guess my main emphasis was my blocking."

After Green Bay's last practice of organized team activities in June, Alcorn headed back to his home in Spearfish with a plan that would get him ready for training camp.

"I'm going to do a lot of what I call active recovery," Alcorn said. "I'm going to do a lot of stretching and running to try to keep in shape. I'm not going to overdo it. You can't over-train and you can't under-train.

"I've got a few bumps and bruises that I'm nursing. I'm going to nurse those and get those rehabbed. Hopefully, I'll be feeling good coming into training camp and my energy levels are really high."

Alcorn's goals for 2007 are set high, too.

"My goal for this season? Oh man, I want to get in at tight end and play and make an impact, help Brett out," Alcorn said. "I know the tight ends didn't get a whole lot of balls last year . . . but we had a young O-line and our main job was basically to help in pass protection.

"I know this year we've come a long way on the offensive line, they've taken huge steps. I know the tight ends are going to get in on the passing game quite a bit more. My goal is to get in there and make an impact."

Of course, the first big catch for Alcorn will be grabbing a spot on the roster.

[Packnut]

"We'll see how it goes"???????????????


Were you expecting the Gettysburg Address?

Nope, I expected to sign Eric Johnson at 2 mill for 1 year. Almost about the same cash spent on the Jones severence pay. :evil:

At least with Johnson we would'nt have the ole "we'll see how it goes". We'd have a TE who can move the sticks......... :idea:

......................until he gets hurt. With a guy that fragile, you have to "see how it goes."

If the over-under on games played by Johnson this year was 8, I'd probably take the under.

But even if Johnson stays healthy for most of the season, I definitely beleive that the Packers' leading TE (whoever that is) will have at least comparable yarda (within 50) and more touchdowns than Johnson in 2007.


How can you use the injury excuse when our FIRST ROUND PICK has a much more EXTENSIVE injury history than Johnson? Sorry, that does'nt work. As far as production goes, your dreaming if you think Lee and Alcorn will come anywhere close to matching Johnson. My guy has PROVEN himself in the NFL, yours is nothing but may-be and hope.

[Packnut]

I would have liked to take a chance on the guy, but there's probably a reason he signed a 1y/$2M contract. Dude had one phenomenal season, but he has 110 receptions, 5 TDs, and averaged under 9 yards/reception in his other 5 season combined. I've moved on. It's not like we passed on a sure bet improvement to our TE group. He's probably as likely to miss 9 games as play 9 games.

Can't say that I feel good about the TE position though. Then again, Mark Chmura went from a practice squad player to a Pro Bowler. I'll have to wait to judge the group until I see how the rookie looks and see if their young TEs have indeed improved. I have to hope that what the coaches see in these guys is real.

Again, same point. Harrell has a more extensive history with injuries than Johnson and will cost a whole lot more, but yet picking him was a good move injury wise? As for his production, he did have a huge year when healthy and remember where he played and who the QB's were.

[retailguy]

Alcorn hoping to catch on this season
By RICHARD PUFALL, JSO

"My goal for this season? Oh man, I want to get in at tight end and play and make an impact, help Brett out," Alcorn said. "I know the tight ends didn't get a whole lot of balls last year . . . but we had a young O-line and our main job was basically to help in pass protection.



Very telling line... Straight from the mouth of one of the TE's. Our MAIN job was to block. MAIN.

He also said the line has improved (Thank God), I sure hope he is correct on that. If he is not ready to step it up a bit, and the OL hasn't improved we are in deep trouble here. If BOTH play out in our favor, perhaps we have an improved season. If only the OL plays out, then we have to hope for Franks and Lee. If he pans out, but the OL doesn't, then I guess we need to be grateful he can block....

I just can't get past the fact that betting on this team, is like taking the riskiest bet you can find in Las Vegas and wagering your entire pension plan...

The odds just are not good. At all.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Again, same point. Harrell has a more extensive history with injuries than Johnson

More extensive? How do you figure? Harrell had one major injury in college. His senior year. The rest of his college career, he played in 32 of 36 games. Overall, even with the one major injury, he played in 35 of 48 games. I don't see one major injury as making a guy injury prone. The type of injury is a big factor. From what I've heard, once you recover from a torn biceps injury, you aren't any more likely to have that injury again.

Johnson has had two major injuries that have put him out for entire seasons. Johnson broke his foot one year and his collarbone another year. He's also had a broken thumb, a sprained MCL, and cracked ribs. Johnson has played in 57 of 96 games.

Johnson was never a speedster to begin (see his 9 yards/catch), so I don't necessarily see him being a guy that gives the Packers what they need at the position. Wouldn't have hurt to try to sign him, but I'm not losing a lot of sleep over his loss. Johnson was rated the 70th best TE in the league by Sporting News going into last season. I'll have to see where he's ranked this year.

BTW, who was it that you wanted the Packers to draft?

[PackerBlues]

A guy could argue that its not just the TE's that were mainly just blocking, but also the fullbacks.

So why have the TE's and Fullbacks mainly block? Obviously, using rookies to fill our guard and center positions was a move that was going to have a period of "growing pains".

If Veteran help had been signed to help ease these rookie OL into the starting positions, would we have needed our TE's and Fullbacks to do so much blocking, rather than what their duties would normally entail?

Who would they have signed, and at what cost, as opposed to the players they went with and the method they ended up using.


Again, my main gripe about Thompsons methods, is the fact that we Have Favre, Clifton, Tauscher, Harris, and Woodson.......these guys are playing at our skilled positions, and are arguably some of the best to play at their positions in the game today. You do not find players of this quality at their positions easily or cheaply. None of these guys has much time left in their careers. Why is Thompson not using free agency to get more experienced players on the field? To fill gaping holes? To help tutor or mentor the rookies? :beat:

[MJZiggy]

A guy could argue that its not just the TE's that were mainly just blocking, but also the fullbacks.

So why have the TE's and Fullbacks mainly block? Obviously, using rookies to fill our guard and center positions was a move that was going to have a period of "growing pains".

If Veteran help had been signed to help ease these rookie OL into the starting positions, would we have needed our TE's and Fullbacks to do so much blocking, rather than what their duties would normally entail?

Who would they have signed, and at what cost, as opposed to the players they went with and the method they ended up using.


Again, my main gripe about Thompsons methods, is the fact that we Have Favre, Clifton, Tauscher, Harris, and Woodson.......these guys are playing at our skilled positions, and are arguably some of the best to play at their positions in the game today. You do not find players of this quality at their positions easily or cheaply. None of these guys has much time left in their careers. Why is Thompson not using free agency to get more experienced players on the field? To fill gaping holes? To help tutor or mentor the rookies? :beat:

He did do that. Remember 2005? (or had you blacked it out of you memory as poeple so often do with traumatic events?)

[wist43]

It's strange that TT is working so hard trying to sell his Kool-Aid.

The transcript of this press conference reads more like a sell job, than an update on the state of the team. He seems to be feeling the pressure... I'm somewhat surprised by that.

[MJZiggy]

Either that or maybe he really just wants you to see what he sees and senses that you don't...

[retailguy]

Either that or maybe he really just wants you to see what he sees and senses that you don't...

Either way, you and Wist say the same thing. If he KNOWS it to be true, who cares what anyone else thinks... unless maybe he's not so sure?

Wist a right. A small crack in the armor. I didn't take it that way, but clearly should have.

Remember - "we'll win some games".

[PackerBlues]

Anyone can see (If they are looking) that Thompson is doing what he feels is best for the Packers. That Thompson does have a plan, and that he is sticking to it. And, Yes, that Thompson is doing his best (without free agency?) to improve the Packers.


However, looking at where the team is now, thinking about where the team needs to be. And considering the time it may take this team to get to where it needs to be. I again have to think about not just Favre, but also, Clifton, Tauscher, Harris, and Woodson. At the pace that Thompson is building this team for a playoff run,by the time we get there, these guys are going to be close to the end of their respective careers. Some sooner than others. Considering how little has been done to fill other positions such as Safety, TE, FB and perhaps RB, how long would it take before we were to see an impact player filling the shoes of Favre, Clifton, Tauscher, Harris, and Woodson???


If you see my point, then you should also understand my dismay at Thompsons dislike of free agents. Yes we have seen him sign a guy now and then. But he also screwed the pooch pretty badly at times, passing up on guys that, given their experience, could have provided much needed help, maybe not guys that you would expect to keep long term, but guys that can step in right away, while you prep a rookie for the future. That would be opposed to what we have seen during regular season games. Throwing a couple of rookies on the field, have them battle it out, and wait to see which one is going to be your starter. Sure, it makes it easier to find out which guy you want to develop into your starter, but that is what the "off season" is for. The Regular season games should always be fielded by guys that you KNOW are capable of being starters. How much of a distraction do you think it is to the players, knowing that the guy playing left guard may not even be worthy of being a starter??

I dont think anyone expects Thompson to "break the bank" in free agency. I just think it would be nice to see a few more veteran players filling some of these positions that we need help in.

[woodbuck27]

"We'll see how it goes"???????????????


Were you expecting the Gettysburg Address?

How about a "guarantee"? But, you know he did say


"We'll win SOME games".

Since 3 qualifies as "some" I guess he's correct without going too far out on the limb, huh?

No ! Winning three games would be a few.

Winning some games implies four or more wins for the Green Bay Packers under the excellent managing system incorporated by Ted Thompson.

DAMN !! We are hearing it from the man himself.

We are in for a tremendous season !!!

We are going to win. . . some games.

Haaahoooo !!

[woodbuck27]

Anyone can see (If they are looking) that Thompson is doing what he feels is best for the Packers. That Thompson does have a plan, and that he is sticking to it. And, Yes, that Thompson is doing his best (without free agency?) to improve the Packers.


However, looking at where the team is now, thinking about where the team needs to be. And considering the time it may take this team to get to where it needs to be. I again have to think about not just Favre, but also, Clifton, Tauscher, Harris, and Woodson. At the pace that Thompson is building this team for a playoff run,by the time we get there, these guys are going to be close to the end of their respective careers. Some sooner than others. Considering how little has been done to fill other positions such as Safety, TE, FB and perhaps RB, how long would it take before we were to see an impact player filling the shoes of Favre, Clifton, Tauscher, Harris, and Woodson???


If you see my point, then you should also understand my dismay at Thompsons dislike of free agents. Yes we have seen him sign a guy now and then. But he also screwed the pooch pretty badly at times, passing up on guys that, given their experience, could have provided much needed help, maybe not guys that you would expect to keep long term, but guys that can step in right away, while you prep a rookie for the future. That would be opposed to what we have seen during regular season games. Throwing a couple of rookies on the field, have them battle it out, and wait to see which one is going to be your starter. Sure, it makes it easier to find out which guy you want to develop into your starter, but that is what the "off season" is for. The Regular season games should always be fielded by guys that you KNOW are capable of being starters. How much of a distraction do you think it is to the players, knowing that the guy playing left guard may not even be worthy of being a starter??

I dont think anyone expects Thompson to "break the bank" in free agency. I just think it would be nice to see a few more veteran players filling some of these positions that we need help in.

That is it bang on !!

100%. . .perfectly expressed.

[wist43]

Either that or maybe he really just wants you to see what he sees and senses that you don't...

Not just me MJ, he's not getting much love from scouts and national writers either. Granted, a lot of that you can take with a grain of salt (national writers), but scouts usually try to remain unemotional and detached, and offer up an unbiased, unvarnished analysis.

If it were just one thing, you could say - even if this player doesn't work out (Rodgers), all we need is this one piece of the puzzle... but TT has chosen the path less travelled - of course that's going to draw heat.

Wahle, Walker, the mighty-midget OL, Rodgers, the '05 OL debacle, his cavalier attitude toward addressing needs, his complete disdain for FA, his extending Sherman only to fire him, the questionable hiring of McCarthy, 587 draft picks/yr...

And of course, all of this taking place while "not rebuilding"... :?: :?:

To me, the biggest reason that TT is under the microscope is Rodgers... if Rodgers can't play, that alone will set the franchise back at least 2-3 years while they flail around trying to find a QB. That would put you into years 6-7 of the TT regime (best case scenario) - still, with no realistic shot at even talking about a SB.

There are a number of other reasons that rank as 1A (already existing holes - WR, RB, TE, CB, ST's), 1B (expected holes - CB, OT, WR), etc... but, not having a QB, pretty much means the Packers have no shot - and that's what I see.

[woodbuck27]

Either that or maybe he really just wants you to see what he sees and senses that you don't...

Not just me MJ, he's not getting much love from scouts and national writers either. Granted, a lot of that you can take with a grain of salt (national writers), but scouts usually try to remain unemotional and detached, and offer up an unbiased, unvarnished analysis.

If it were just one thing, you could say - even if this player doesn't work out (Rodgers), all we need is this one piece of the puzzle... but TT has chosen the path less travelled - of course that's going to draw heat.

Wahle, Walker, the mighty-midget OL, Rodgers, the '05 OL debacle, his cavalier attitude toward addressing needs, his complete disdain for FA, his extending Sherman only to fire him, the questionable hiring of McCarthy, 587 draft picks/yr...

And of course, all of this taking place while "not rebuilding"... :?: :?:

To me, the biggest reason that TT is under the microscope is Rodgers... if Rodgers can't play, that alone will set the franchise back at least 2-3 years while they flail around trying to find a QB. That would put you into years 6-7 of the TT regime (best case scenario) - still, with no realistic shot at even talking about a SB.

There are a number of other reasons that rank as 1A (already existing holes - WR, RB, TE, CB, ST's), 1B (expected holes - CB, OT, WR), etc... but, not having a QB, pretty much means the Packers have no shot - and that's what I see.

Yup !

I can't decide whether TT has too much imagination or not enough.

[Bretsky]

Anyone can see (If they are looking) that Thompson is doing what he feels is best for the Packers. That Thompson does have a plan, and that he is sticking to it. And, Yes, that Thompson is doing his best (without free agency?) to improve the Packers.


However, looking at where the team is now, thinking about where the team needs to be. And considering the time it may take this team to get to where it needs to be. I again have to think about not just Favre, but also, Clifton, Tauscher, Harris, and Woodson. At the pace that Thompson is building this team for a playoff run,by the time we get there, these guys are going to be close to the end of their respective careers. Some sooner than others. Considering how little has been done to fill other positions such as Safety, TE, FB and perhaps RB, how long would it take before we were to see an impact player filling the shoes of Favre, Clifton, Tauscher, Harris, and Woodson???


If you see my point, then you should also understand my dismay at Thompsons dislike of free agents. Yes we have seen him sign a guy now and then. But he also screwed the pooch pretty badly at times, passing up on guys that, given their experience, could have provided much needed help, maybe not guys that you would expect to keep long term, but guys that can step in right away, while you prep a rookie for the future. That would be opposed to what we have seen during regular season games. Throwing a couple of rookies on the field, have them battle it out, and wait to see which one is going to be your starter. Sure, it makes it easier to find out which guy you want to develop into your starter, but that is what the "off season" is for. The Regular season games should always be fielded by guys that you KNOW are capable of being starters. How much of a distraction do you think it is to the players, knowing that the guy playing left guard may not even be worthy of being a starter??

I dont think anyone expects Thompson to "break the bank" in free agency. I just think it would be nice to see a few more veteran players filling some of these positions that we need help in.


:bclap: :bclap: :bclap: :bclap: :bclap: :bclap:

[PackerBlues]

Am I stuck with this Dam Signature for the entire season ???

Some have Turtle Confidence.

I would be labled as a Turtle Troll; I troll around daily shaking my head with my lack of patience--

Ya know Bretsky..... when you first took up that signature, with the idea that you would keep it until Thompson signed two (?) free agents, I thought to myself, "hey, Thompson signed two of em last year, and with all of our needs, two shouldn't be that much to ask this year."

Even though you and I both knew that Thompson isnt into free agents, I was just wondering, are you as suprised as I am, that you are still havin to use that signature? I mean honestly, two free agents is not that much to ask, is it? With the needs that this team has? :huh:

[Bretsky]

Am I stuck with this Dam Signature for the entire season ???

Some have Turtle Confidence.

I would be labled as a Turtle Troll; I troll around daily shaking my head with my lack of patience--

Ya know Bretsky..... when you first took up that signature, with the idea that you would keep it until Thompson signed two (?) free agents, I thought to myself, "hey, Thompson signed two of em last year, and with all of our needs, two shouldn't be that much to ask this year."

Even though you and I both knew that Thompson isnt into free agents, I was just wondering, are you as suprised as I am, that you are still havin to use that signature? I mean honestly, two free agents is not that much to ask, is it? With the needs that this team has? :huh:


Honestly, I'm frickin AMAZED that the Turtle has only signed one free agent. Last year we signed Manuel, Woodson, Pickett, and Ben Taylor. Four free agents.

This year we went into free agency with a load of money and we still have a load of money.

I never honestly fathomed that I'd still have this dam signature nearly five frickin months after the start of free agency.

Even the most loyal of the Turtleites are at least a bit surprised Ted has not signed a mere two free agents.

I put up this dam signature as a joke figuring it would not be there for over a month.

Fans should light up the Turtle if this team does not show marked improvement in the win loss record after he choosed to hibernate throughout the free agency period.

[Scott Campbell]

Am I stuck with this Dam Signature for the entire season ???

Some have Turtle Confidence.

I would be labled as a Turtle Troll; I troll around daily shaking my head with my lack of patience--

Ya know Bretsky..... when you first took up that signature, with the idea that you would keep it until Thompson signed two (?) free agents, I thought to myself, "hey, Thompson signed two of em last year, and with all of our needs, two shouldn't be that much to ask this year."

Even though you and I both knew that Thompson isnt into free agents, I was just wondering, are you as suprised as I am, that you are still havin to use that signature? I mean honestly, two free agents is not that much to ask, is it? With the needs that this team has? :huh:


Honestly, I'm frickin AMAZED that the Turtle has only signed one free agent. Last year we signed Manuel, Woodson, Pickett, and Ben Taylor. Four free agents.

This year we went into free agency with a load of money and we still have a load of money.

I never honestly fathomed that I'd still have this dam signature nearly five frickin months after the start of free agency.

Even the most loyal of the Turtleites are at least a bit surprised Ted has not signed a mere two free agents.

I put up this dam signature as a joke figuring it would not be there for over a month.

Fans should light up the Turtle if this team does not show marked improvement in the win loss record after he choosed to hibernate throughout the free agency period.


I'm surprised too. I'm not as critical of Ted because of the amount of cap money out there and the mediocre free agent pool. But I didn't see it being this bad.

[retailguy]

I'm surprised too. I'm not as critical of Ted because of the amount of cap money out there and the mediocre free agent pool. But I didn't see it being this bad.


Well, never thought I'd agree with you, but I do. The more I reflect on this, the more I question if Thompson truly thinks we're going to win now.

I thought there were 7 major holes on this team at the beginning of free agency. Maybe Thompson thinks there were more? Or, that was just too many to fill? ?? Don't really know, just guessing. Some people can be read if you pay attention. Ted is bit difficult.

I don't know, but his inaction could only mean 3 things to me:

1. He thinks we're a couple seasons away at best, why waste the money.
2. The players were truly overpaid, and he just couldn't do it.
or
3. He really believes this team will win a bunch of games.

#3 scares the crap out of me, if this team isn't competitive, number 2 shows he needs some educating as a GM to go along with his superior talent skills and #1 makes sense.

I can't see any other options here. I'm sure someone will come up with another to remind me that I'm not Miss Cleo.... :P

[MJZiggy]

What if, as a talent evaluator and the guy responsible, he simply didn't think that the guys that were out there could really and truly help this team as compared to the contracts they were asking for? If I think the return for my investment is not what I'm hoping for, I don't invest either...

[retailguy]

What if, as a talent evaluator and the guy responsible, he simply didn't think that the guys that were out there could really and truly help this team as compared to the contracts they were asking for? If I think the return for my investment is not what I'm hoping for, I don't invest either...


Wouldn't that be #2, just phrased a bit differently?

Expounding on that, even if you have to overpay, you do it, or, you make a conscious decision not to win, right? If that's what it takes?

I understand the value angle. The problem is HE IS NOT TELLING US THAT, is he?

[MJZiggy]

No, it would indicate that he saw less talent than the fans did and didn't think the guys could really help. He did call this "a very weak FA class." He gave Woodson and Pickett contracts because he believed in their abilities. Maybe he didn't believe in the abilities of this years' guys.

[retailguy]

No, it would indicate that he saw less talent than the fans did and didn't think the guys could really help. He did call this "a very weak FA class." He gave Woodson and Pickett contracts because he believed in their abilities. Maybe he didn't believe in the abilities of this years' guys.


You are missing my point. I agree with this. I think I discussed it in #2.

But see my point - He isn't saying this. Maybe he thinks he can't? Don't really know.

But, if he identified the same holes that we did, (unknown), then if you elect to pass, you elect the consequences of passing, right? We just don't know yet, if there will be any. I think there will, you think there won't be. We'll just have to see.

[Scott Campbell]

I don't think I want our GM gulping down truth serum the way some of us gulp down beer. Obfuscation is a viable strategy.

[Bretsky]

I don't think I want our GM gulping down truth serum the way some of us gulp down beer. Obfuscation is a viable strategy.


Obfuscation; I've never heard of that word. Assuming it means secrecy but I'm too lazy to look it up

[Scott Campbell]

"We'll see how it goes"???????????????


Were you expecting the Gettysburg Address?

How about a "guarantee"? But, you know he did say


"We'll win SOME games".

Since 3 qualifies as "some" I guess he's correct without going too far out on the limb, huh?

No ! Winning three games would be a few.

Winning some games implies four or more wins for the Green Bay Packers under the excellent managing system incorporated by Ted Thompson.

DAMN !! We are hearing it from the man himself.

We are in for a tremendous season !!!

We are going to win. . . some games.

Haaahoooo !!




Haaahoooo indeed.

[cheesner]

Am I stuck with this Dam Signature for the entire season ???

Some have Turtle Confidence.

I would be labled as a Turtle Troll; I troll around daily shaking my head with my lack of patienceCould I suggest a new sig?

"You don't have to sign FAs to become a Superbowl competitive team."

[RashanGary]

"You don't have to sign FAs to become a Superbowl competitive team."

:lol:

[Lurker64]

"You don't have to sign FAs to become a Superbowl competitive team."

Does Frank Walker not count, for some reason?

[Bretsky]

Am I stuck with this Dam Signature for the entire season ???

Some have Turtle Confidence.

I would be labled as a Turtle Troll; I troll around daily shaking my head with my lack of patienceCould I suggest a new sig?

"You don't have to sign FAs to become a Superbowl competitive team."


A very fair comment

but I'm not going to drool over anything until we win a championship

Then I'll put in a sig like that