WR Breakdown- Packers will make Do

[Bretsky]

Position-by-position: Wide receivers
Packers will make do after failing to land Moss
Posted: July 25, 2007
On the Packers

Green Bay - If Green Bay general manager Ted Thompson had been sold on the Packers' wide receivers, he obviously never would have gone after Randy Moss in the first place.

After allowing themselves to be outbid by New England for Moss, the Packers return every wide receiver that saw the field for them in 2006, along with third- and fifth-round selections in this year's draft. But the game of what-if regarding Moss will be played for a long time to come.

"It could have been something that worked out well, or maybe it wouldn't have," said Jimmy Robinson, who begins his 18th consecutive season as a wide receivers coach in the National Football League. "We're never really going to know the answer to that question because it didn't happen. Suffice it to say it wasn't meant to be, more than anything."
Like most coaches, Robinson has a selfish side when it comes to acquiring talented players for his position. But from his perspective, there's absolutely no reason to fret about the Packers' wide receivers sans Moss.

"I'm optimistic that we're going to be a very, very productive group," Robinson said. "If you read some other people's opinions, maybe they're not as strong that way as I am.

"You can drive yourself crazy saying, 'Boy, I wish we had some guy that was 6-4 and ran 4.35 and caught everything.' But there's not many of those kinds of guys. They're here and there but they're not everywhere."

Moss was one of them, and Javon Walker, traded to Denver in April 2006, ranks as another. Without them, the Packers begin the second season of the post-Walker era with Donald Driver and Greg Jennings as starters.

"The two receivers are solid guys," a personnel director for an AFC team said earlier in the week. "But they don't scare anybody."

Driver, the best player on the team two years running, had the fifth-most receptions (92) and receiving yards (1,295) in the NFL last season. He meant everything to an offense that didn't offer enough vertical stretch. Brett Favre's yards-per-attempt rate of 6.34 was his second-worst ever.

Jennings had eight catches for 20 yards or more through five games (Driver had six) before suffering a classic ankle sprain. He wasn't the same player the rest of the way, but Robinson is confident Jennings will return to pre-injury form.

Driver and Jennings have good but not great speed. Also, Driver (5 feet 11½ inches) and Jennings (5-11) don't have the wingspan to consistently win deep jump balls.

Buffalo and Baltimore are the other teams in the league entering training camp with both starting receivers shorter than 6-0. Forty-five of the projected 64 starters, or 70.3%, are listed at 6-0 or taller. Twenty starters stand 6-3 or taller. Seventeen teams have one starter at least as tall as 6-2.

With the No. 3 job unspoken for, Robinson mentioned Robert Ferguson, Ruvell Martin, Carlyle Holiday and James Jones as those most heavily in the mix. The group has superb size and strength, but there is no blazing speed.

The only true deep threats currently on the roster are rookie David Clowney and free agent Calvin Russell. Clowney, a fifth-round pick, might make the team, but Russell is a long shot.

"Do I wish we were better?" Robinson said. "I spend my time on how to help us be better. You try to do the best with what you have and get the guys believing in themselves and the system and get them ready to play the very best that they can. We've got a very, very competitive situation."

Driver, the flanker, might be 32, but seems ageless. He stays in great shape, has uncommon rapport with Favre and will go anywhere to catch a ball.

Jennings, the split end, has deceptive speed and is a natural route-runner. He's smooth and fluid, runs explosively and unpredictably after the catch, finds ways to get deep and has a knack for big plays.

"I fully expect him to be a tough guy for defenses to handle," Robinson said. "You don't often have rookies play like Greg Jennings did from day one. I expect to see him have a great year."

As long as Jones doesn't struggle assimilating to a pro system, he should contribute as a rookie. He might have been the club's third-best receiver this off-season.

"He's built like a brick house," Robinson said. "Plucks the ball out in front. Everything in the hands. Maybe other teams didn't have him ranked as high as we did, but I think he's got a tremendous amount of talent."

Another lost season due to injury for Ferguson gave chances to Holiday and Martin down the stretch in '06. Holiday is faster (running the 40-yard dash in 4.56 seconds) than Martin and is a better athlete.

"Very sharp mentally, as you might think having been a former quarterback," Robinson said, referring to Holiday. "Real good hands. He's strong."

Martin probably made more plays in May and June than any other receiver. He had a great spring in '06, beat the odds to make the roster after a great camp and maximized his modest ability when given a chance to play last season.

"I just think the world of the guy because he really gets the most out of what he has," Robinson said. "He just knows what he's doing. He can play anywhere for you. And he catches the ball pretty consistently."

Ferguson, with a $1.8 million base salary and a spotty résumé, cannot afford another injury or more than a bad day or two in camp. The Lisfranc foot sprain that ruined his '06 season shouldn't be a problem, but there are always health issues with Ferguson.

"It's hard for me to understand why Robert can't be a very, very productive receiver," Robinson said. "He's a big, strong, physical guy. He does things well."

Another veteran in the picture could be Koren Robinson, who can apply for reinstatement in mid-September from his year-long suspension. Last year, he looked sluggish during his 63 snaps in four games. Like Ferguson, he would be in his seventh season and is 27.

Clowney and Shaun Bodiford lack size, but do have redeeming qualities. Clowney's would be 4.36 speed. Bodiford's would be return ability.

"(Clowney) continues to learn how to use his speed on all his routes," Robinson said. "(Bodiford) may be the most fearless of the whole group. The word I use for him is 'hungry.' He just needs to improve on route technique and getting into some real fundamental stuff maybe he hasn't been exposed to before."

[oregonpackfan]

The WR position is a huge factor in the Packers' success/failure this year.

[retailguy]

Position-by-position: Wide receivers
Packers will make do after failing to land Moss
Posted: July 25, 2007
On the Packers


"The two receivers are solid guys," a personnel director for an AFC team said earlier in the week. "But they don't scare anybody."




<sigh> :cry:

[wist43]

I look at the offense overall and the first question has to be, "where are the points going to come from"???

Even if Jones proves to be a decent player, the type of decent player he will be, will be an underneath possession guy. And while he has decent size, i.e. he's strong and thickly built, he isn't a "long" athlete that can go up and win jump balls on a consistent basis, and he's certainly not going to put any pressure on a defense over the top.

Jennings has some big play ability - as has been said, he and Driver are "solid", but relatively unspectacular. Hopefully Jennings can elevate his game and draw some attention away from Driver, thereby improving both of their numbers.

Don't see where defenses will have any problem keeping the Packers WR's penned up in front of them.

[mraynrand]

I was disappointed that the Packers seemingly did nothing to get a middle of the field threat. Geez, they struggled when Martin went out last year. The absolute best this offense has ever had with Favre was with the two tight end set. The obvious objection to that is that Favre was at his best back then and took a lot of hits due to less pass pro coverage.

I think the reduction of focus on the TE position - as far as receiving goes - shows just how much this offense is switching to a run first, ball control offense. A team that will rely on defense and teams to get them the ball more often and in better scoring position...

Who knows, maybe they'll have Jones run up the center of the field from the slot. Ferguson seems unable or unwilling to do this, so Jones may be the guy. And Bubba isn't the answer either. He runs like a guy who has his shoe laces tied together or a guy who didn't pull his trousers up after taking a dump (or a gangsta rap guy too, I guess).

[Carolina_Packer]

Beyond our two starters, I think the article points out a lot of questions. Questions are OK, as long as there are good answers. For there to be good answers, we will also need:

1) Good offensive line play. The passing game seemed to come together late last year, and Jennings wasn't even available, which was in large part due to the offensive line coming together as a unit.

2) Decent/Good running game. We certainly don't have to dominate (although I'd love it), but we have to make them respect our run game in order for the passing game to have a chance to succeed.

3) A return to form for Bubba as a pass catcher. Why not squeeze that lemon since you're paying him? Perhaps someone else will step up if Bubba can't.

4) And of course the "straw that stirs the drink", Brett Favre, has to play within himself, and I think numbers 1 and 2 will have a lot to do with that.

I believe this group of WR's is a talented group, waiting to prove themselves, and they wouldn't be there if they weren't deserving to be there. Put it this way, if Detroit's offensive line and QB situation sucks this year, how good will their talented receivers be? It's the ultimate team sport as far as success goes.

[The Leaper]

1) Good offensive line play. The passing game seemed to come together late last year, and Jennings wasn't even available, which was in large part due to the offensive line coming together as a unit.

I can't recall the passing game "coming together" at any point last year. It was continually frustrated in the red zone due to the lack of size, and that will continue in 2007. Dropped balls were numerous the entire season. If you don't have reliable TEs, which we don't, then you must have a WR with size to make an impact in the red zone...and neither of the starters has that size, and they are the only reliable WRs on the roster.


2) Decent/Good running game. We certainly don't have to dominate (although I'd love it), but we have to make them respect our run game in order for the passing game to have a chance to succeed.

I don't think the running game has a major impact on the passing game that Green Bay is FORCED to utilize. We have NO DEEP THREATS, and those are the plays that benefit the most from a strong running attack. You don't play action and plan to throw a 5 yard crossing pattern over the middle of the field. Without the capacity to make many big plays downfield, opposing defenses are just going to continue to force Green Bay to put together 15 play drives to score TDs.


3) A return to form for Bubba as a pass catcher. Why not squeeze that lemon since you're paying him? Perhaps someone else will step up if Bubba can't.

There is absolutely no evidence that Bubba is suddenly going to "return to form". His "form" was never really much of a threat...he just caught a lot of wide open TDs in the red zone because of the elite running game Green Bay had in much of the Sherman era that forced goalline defenses to respect the run. Between the 20s, Bubba has never been a threat...and his play has continually declined in the last 2-3 years. I don't see how any of the other guys are going to magically put it all together either. It was a critical blunder for Thompson to not upgrade the TE position.

Sure, the offense as a whole needs to work together...but you need experienced talent to have a threatening offense. We have an aging Favre and an aging Driver...and that's pretty much it. Things aren't likely to be pretty when September rolls around.

[woodbuck27]

And Bubba isn't the answer either. He runs like a guy who has his shoe laces tied together or a guy who didn't pull his trousers up after taking a dump (or a gangsta rap guy too, I guess).

No kidding ! :) :)

[RashanGary]

I think we have a really good starting two as far as WR's go and we have normal competition for the #3-#5 slots.

I think the offensive lines ability to pass block and run block is going ot make or break the offense.

We have good WR's, a really good QB (most important) and two RB's who have been good whenever they've been given the chance. If the online does it's job, the offense can be a top 10 offense which is more than enough considering the strength of their defense.


I think the Packers are very underrated heading into this season adn it will be fun to watch them prove the doubters wrong.

[wist43]

I think we have a really good starting two as far as WR's go and we have normal competition for the #3-#5 slots.

I think the offensive lines ability to pass block and run block is going ot make or break the offense.

We have good WR's, a really good QB (most important) and two RB's who have been good whenever they've been given the chance. If the online does it's job, the offense can be a top 10 offense which is more than enough considering the strength of their defense.


I think the Packers are very underrated heading into this season adn it will be fun to watch them prove the doubters wrong.

WOW, JH...

Off the meds??? Top 10 offense - are you whacked out on something??? :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:

Perhaps a nap would be in order about now...??? :)

[woodbuck27]

I think we have a really good starting two as far as WR's go and we have normal competition for the #3-#5 slots.

I think the offensive lines ability to pass block and run block is going ot make or break the offense.

We have good WR's, a really good QB (most important) and two RB's who have been good whenever they've been given the chance. If the online does it's job, the offense can be a top 10 offense which is more than enough considering the strength of their defense.


I think the Packers are very underrated heading into this season adn it will be fun to watch them prove the doubters wrong.

and there is absolutely no reason that the Packers shouldn't be legitimate Super Bowl contenders.

Good grief. . .is that helium that your on? :) :)

[the_idle_threat]

Top 10 offense = crazy?

Depends upon how you measure the offense. According to nfl.com, the Packers were 9th in "total offense" last season, measured in terms of yards per game.

The red zone is what gave them problems. They were 23rd in scoring offense.

[The Leaper]

With Favre, the Packers won't have too much difficulty moving between the 20s. The problem is the red zone. We have no size or length at the receiver positions to be a threat around the endzone.

I'm sure we will eat up a lot of yardage yet again...and again have few points to show for it.

[RashanGary]

There are two keys to an effective redzone offense:

1. An offensive line that can get a push
2. A QB who can make a play when he needs to, to keep the defense of balance


The Packers had one of the two a year ago but were absolutly miserable as far as the other was concerned. The offensive line was acctually laughed at by the Vikings defensive lineman. They talked about how weak our interior line was. IT was true, we could not get a push in the redzone all year. I'd bet that our rushing TD's was among the leagues lowest if not the lowest. Without the ability to impose your will in the redzone with the rushing attack, the passing attack becomes predictable and bad things happen.

The offensive line should be much stronger and more capable in the redzone this year. I think we'll be a top 10 offense in both yards and points. A good defense and ST's help an offense too, so because our team is improved from top to bottom, it's going to compound good things.

[b bulldog]

Agree with the above statement but having guys who give your offense the matchups that are favorable are also key. Big, thick, tall WR's are obviously great redzone targets and TE's can be great examples of that. A QB with some mobility that will make the D commit is also a nice luxury to have.

[RashanGary]

6 mos from now I'm gonna be saying "I told you so" and everyone is going to say "You just got completely lucky guessing. Who would have thought that Jennings would be a 1,000 reciever, Morency/Jackson would have a good season and our TE's would return to the TD catching unit of old. Who would have guessed all of that in their right mind"

Our skill guys *Favre, Jennings, Driver, Morency, Jackson, Bubba* can all get it done. It's not their fault when they can't run routes allowing DB's to focus on just two route runners. It's not their fault that the line is getting pounded and no yards are there to be gained. It's the fault of the Oline. My only real prediction is that the offensive line littered with young, motivated players takes a big step. The odds of Colledge, Wells and Spitz just staying the same after a year of NFL conditioning and a year to learn the scheme is slim to none. I'm not making a bold prediction, I'm looking at cause and effect. The cause is the line getting better, the effect is the whole offense producing the way they are capable.

[RashanGary]

Agree with the above statement but having guys who give your offense the matchups that are favorable are also key. Big, thick, tall WR's are obviously great redzone targets and TE's can be great examples of that. A QB with some mobility that will make the D commit is also a nice luxury to have.

Much, much less important compared to the QB and the online. I'd put the RB before the WR's and TE's.

IMO

[Bretsky]

I think we have a really good starting two as far as WR's go and we have normal competition for the #3-#5 slots.

I think the offensive lines ability to pass block and run block is going ot make or break the offense.

We have good WR's, a really good QB (most important) and two RB's who have been good whenever they've been given the chance. If the online does it's job, the offense can be a top 10 offense which is more than enough considering the strength of their defense.


I think the Packers are very underrated heading into this season adn it will be fun to watch them prove the doubters wrong.


I think we have two solid starting caliber receivers and a bunch of #4-#5 guys. If or when one of the two solid staters get hurt we're screwed IMO

It's interesting to see all of these outside reports and scout comments. They hold an unbiased view of things and their view of our offense is not favorable.

[Bretsky]

Top 10 offense = crazy?

Depends upon how you measure the offense. According to nfl.com, the Packers were 9th in "total offense" last season, measured in terms of yards per game.

The red zone is what gave them problems. They were 23rd in scoring offense.


Yards will be there for teams often behind and going against squads playing the Zone Prevent Defense.

[Bretsky]

6 mos from now I'm gonna be saying "I told you so" and everyone is going to say "You just got completely lucky guessing. Who would have thought that Jennings would be a 1,000 reciever, Morency/Jackson would have a good season and our TE's would return to the TD catching unit of old. Who would have guessed all of that in their right mind"

Our skill guys *Favre, Jennings, Driver, Morency, Jackson, Bubba* can all get it done. It's not their fault when they can't run routes allowing DB's to focus on just two route runners. It's not their fault that the line is getting pounded and no yards are there to be gained. It's the fault of the Oline. My only real prediction is that the offensive line littered with young, motivated players takes a big step. The odds of Colledge, Wells and Spitz just staying the same after a year of NFL conditioning and a year to learn the scheme is slim to none. I'm not making a bold prediction, I'm looking at cause and effect. The cause is the line getting better, the effect is the whole offense producing the way they are capable.


Nine wins for this season to be considered a success under the Turlteite Regime and a Top 10 Scoring offense.

Those are the two stats I'll remember you by.

[wist43]

6 mos from now I'm gonna be saying "I told you so" and everyone is going to say "You just got completely lucky guessing. Who would have thought that Jennings would be a 1,000 reciever, Morency/Jackson would have a good season and our TE's would return to the TD catching unit of old. Who would have guessed all of that in their right mind"

Our skill guys *Favre, Jennings, Driver, Morency, Jackson, Bubba* can all get it done. It's not their fault when they can't run routes allowing DB's to focus on just two route runners. It's not their fault that the line is getting pounded and no yards are there to be gained. It's the fault of the Oline. My only real prediction is that the offensive line littered with young, motivated players takes a big step. The odds of Colledge, Wells and Spitz just staying the same after a year of NFL conditioning and a year to learn the scheme is slim to none. I'm not making a bold prediction, I'm looking at cause and effect. The cause is the line getting better, the effect is the whole offense producing the way they are capable.

The only way I can see this offense being very productive, both in terms of yds and pts, is if most of the "if's" come together. I think that's asking a lot.

The best bet to provide a vertical threat up the field might be Lee. He's got the athleticism and speed, but his hands are shaky. If he can get it together, that would go a long way toward opening everything else up... that's another one of those pretty big ifs though.

[RashanGary]

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e331/e_mailbob/Thompson.jpg

Listen up mother fuckers, this team is going to do fine. Now quit your damn chicken little, alarmist whinitudes and watch some Brewer games. When the season opens we're going to be an aggressive, tough, playoff competive team. Now get the hell out of here and quit being such a bunch of pussy's.

Thank you for your time, you are my bosses but it doesn't mean I listen to you, EVER, and believe me, it's for the good of team.

[b bulldog]

Football is a game of matchups, definitely in the redzone. Our guys will not scare anyone matchup wise except for DD. The TE position will be weak but the rb position will be better than most think and the line will be top half of the league at worst. Our O does lack the players that can dictate to the D what will happen.

[RashanGary]

Our O does lack the players that can dictate to the D what will happen.

I agree with this. When I say top 10, I mean 10th or in that area. I think they can have an upper average offense with a very good defense (Top 5ish). I think they have wildcard talent, maybe the division if the Bears take a dive like I think they might.

[Bretsky]

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e331/e_mailbob/Thompson.jpg

Listen up mother fuckers, this team is going to do fine. Now quit your damn chicken little, alarmist whinitudes and watch some Brewer games. When the season opens we're going to be an aggressive, tough, playoff competive team. Now get the hell out of here and quit being such a bunch of pussy's.

Thank you for your time, you are my bosses but it doesn't mean I listen to you, EVER, and believe me, it's for the good of team.


Thanks for the immediate help Ted; just remember the season is a failure if your record does not improve because you chose to hibernate during periods when other teams were at least trying to upgrade their personnel to become contenders.

Rumor has it if the Brewers don't make it we can at least wait for the Bucks to contend in their crappy conference . Keep on turtling on. Take your sweet time in the name of the good of the team.

Sincerely,
Whinitudee

[the_idle_threat]

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e331/e_mailbob/Thompson.jpg

Listen up mother fuckers, this team is going to do fine. Now quit your damn chicken little, alarmist whinitudes and watch some Brewer games. When the season opens we're going to be an aggressive, tough, playoff competive team. Now get the hell out of here and quit being such a bunch of pussy's.

Thank you for your time, you are my bosses but it doesn't mean I listen to you, EVER, and believe me, it's for the good of team.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

***Nominated for post of the week!

[HarveyWallbangers]

With Favre, the Packers won't have too much difficulty moving between the 20s. The problem is the red zone. We have no size or length at the receiver positions to be a threat around the endzone.

I'm sure we will eat up a lot of yardage yet again...and again have few points to show for it.

It's going to come down to the OL in the redzone getting a push (possible) and the TEs playing better (unlikely). RBs usually get what's available. I think our WRs aren't quite as inept in the redzone as some make them out to be. Not being able to run and not getting much from our TEs is what killed us in the redzone.

Driver has a knack for making plays anywhere. Jennings seems to have the same qualities. You don't have to be tall to be a redzone target. See Sterling Sharpe. James Jones had 10 TDs in college last year, so maybe he eventually develops into that guy.

Sure, Owens and Moss are tall, but Chad Johnson is 6'1. Marvin Harrison is 6'. Reggie Wayne is 6'. Lee Evans is 5'10". Torry Holt and Isaac Bruce are 6'. Steve Smith is 5'9". Lav Coles is 5'11". Hines Ward is 6'. Darrell Jackson is 5'11". A lot of the best receivers in the league are similar in size to our guys. It's not like we have 6 Antonio Chatmans. Driver is 6'. Jennings is 5'11". Ruvell Martin is 6'4". Robert Ferguson is 6'1". David Clowney is 6'1". James Jones is 6'1".

[Scott Campbell]

Nice.

[MJZiggy]

With Favre, the Packers won't have too much difficulty moving between the 20s. The problem is the red zone. We have no size or length at the receiver positions to be a threat around the endzone.

I'm sure we will eat up a lot of yardage yet again...and again have few points to show for it.

It's going to come down to the OL in the redzone getting a push (possible) and the TEs playing better (unlikely). RBs usually get what's available. I think our WRs aren't quite as inept in the redzone as some make them out to be. Not being able to run and not getting much from our TEs is what killed us in the redzone.

Driver has a knack for making plays anywhere. Jennings seems to have the same qualities. You don't have to be tall to be a redzone target. See Sterling Sharpe. James Jones had 10 TDs in college last year, so maybe he eventually develops into that guy.

Sure, Owens and Moss are tall, but Chad Johnson is 6'1. Marvin Harrison is 6'. Reggie Wayne is 6'. Lee Evans is 5'10". Torry Holt and Isaac Bruce are 6'. Steve Smith is 5'9". Lav Coles is 5'11". Hines Ward is 6'. Darrell Jackson is 5'11". A lot of the best receivers in the league are similar in size to our guys. It's not like we have 6 Antonio Chatmans. Driver is 6'. Jennings is 5'11". Ruvell Martin is 6'4". Robert Ferguson is 6'1". David Clowney is 6'1". James Jones is 6'1".

Can I nominate this for predictive post of the offseason?

[b bulldog]

I so underestimated the importance of Greg jennings at the start of the season. :oops:

[MJZiggy]

A lot of people did that when he was hobbled for the second half of last year with the ankle injury. They somehow forgot how potent he can be...don't think anyone (including NFL DCs) will make that mistake twice...

[RashanGary]

I think peoples problem with poor prediction is that they take the average of the last two years rather than strying to find the pattern.

Connect a few meaningfull dots and then extrapolate them to mean something.

Don't add up a couple seasons and divide by two thinking you have the answer to the next season.

[MJZiggy]

Careful, there JH, they'll start digging up your old threads next...

[Zool]

WOW, JH...

Off the meds??? Top 10 offense - are you whacked out on something??? Perhaps a nap would be in order about now...??? :)

D'OH