1ST STRING JUSTIN HARRELL ?

[Bretsky]

I know I'm nitpicking here; but with the infinite news on the free agent front this one might be worth a thread. Somebody else bought this up as not being cool as well so I thought I'd give my take as well as get other views.

In the past I've been a varsity coach as well as a defensive coach for a High School JV Team. From a coaches normal mentality, players have to work their arse off to earn their jobs, and earn their starting positions.

Justin Harrell has did no physical activities for the Green Bay Packers as of yet.

So does anybody else find it highly odd that he is listed as the 1st String DT before the coaching staff has ever seen him perform.

Why do you think MM would choose to list Harrell as the starter before seeing him perform ? I'm not sure why; I cartainly do not agree with it, but I'll offer up some alternatives to try to describe this.

1. To Motivate Harrell- Maybe GB is sending a clear message to Harrell on how high on them they are and that they expect him to perform at a high level immediately

MY TAKE: From all accounts it appears Harrell has a great attitude. His coaches have commented that he gives it his all on and off the field and he's a leader. I'm not sure this would be any more of a motivator than his being a first round draft pick.

2. Message to Corey Williams- Maybe I'm way off base here, but how happy is TT with Williams performance ? Maybe he is not motivated enough ? He'll be a free agent next year so fiscally and ego wise Williams certainly can not be happy about being listed as 2nd string. I've popped the theory out that the Harrell selection may be about kissing goodbye to Williams; I hope that is not the case. But I find it hard to believe that GB's depth chart lists a rookie as the starter over last year's starter when the rookie has never played

3. The Conspiracy Theory- I don't buy it for one short second, but somebody might bring it up so I might as well. Many in here felt Nall outperformed Rodgers in year one, but Rodgers was handed the 2nd string job when he did not deserve it because he was the top pick. Some hinted TT pressured the coach to get Rodgers more reps whether he deserved it or not due to draft status. I don't think it's a plausible theory, but who knows.


OR, FEEL FREE TO ADD YOUR OWN THEORY......

Why would a rookie who has been injured so not physically participated in team activities be listed as the starting DL for the Green Bay Packers ?

[MJZiggy]

Because it's training camp and they want him to play with the first group to see what he can do. M3 already said it meant nothing.

[Bretsky]

HERE IS THE CLIP FROM JS

Coach Mike McCarthy tried to downplay Harrell's position on the depth chart during his pre-training camp news conference Friday afternoon, indicating that Harrell was listed first because he's more likely to play on early downs in the base defense. But he also didn't deny Harrell was someone the Packers feel can help them right away.

"On defense you never really have (just) 11 starters," McCarthy said. "If you want to get detailed, and go play a game today, we haven't taken the field yet with Justin, but based on his potential if we were playing 'base,' he probably would be out there with the first 'base' based on potential. I think Corey would have been out there with the first 'sub' group.

"But as you know, there's no starting lineup."

It's yet to be seen how Williams, who ranked second on the team in sacks last year with seven, will react to the news. Williams is in the final year of his contract, and some think he could have a breakout season if given an opportunity.

[woodbuck27]

I don't want to open any old wars but I was sick that Aaron Rodgers was handed the No. 2 QB slot over C. Nall.That reflected poorly on TT in season number 1 ( 2005) when a lot of eyes were on him and his style of being our GM.

Setting J. Harrel above Williams in the depth chart and given the fact he has to recover fr. injury and adapt to this level of play makes no sense to me. Why would TT instruct MM so ? Why would TT want to place the rush on Harrell and all that pressure to be there early this season?

Maybe TT is giving a clear message to the league that Williams is available?

[HarveyWallbangers]

Thompson's not the guy responsible for the depth chart. McCarthy is. Man, there's nothing that can't be blamed on Thompson. There's got to be a way we can blame Ted Thompson for global warming.

[Rastak]

Thompson's not the guy responsible for the depth chart. McCarthy is. Man, there's nothing that can't be blamed on Thompson. There's got to be a way we can blame Ted Thompson for global warming.


Yea, I would think it's McCarthy. Kinda strange he's listed on top but then again it means absolutely nothing at the end of July. 3rd preseason game is a when it starts to matter.

[woodbuck27]

Thompson's not the guy responsible for the depth chart. McCarthy is. Man, there's nothing that can't be blamed on Thompson. There's got to be a way we can blame Ted Thompson for global warming.

TT and those on top of him are very much in control in Green Bay.It's not like MM has all the pieces to be the next wonder boy as a HC. He is in a learning curve and the same goes for TT.

What's puplicized (Oh Mike is fully in charge of all activities that have to do with team personnel) and whats real. . . are too different things.

[Lurker64]

TT and those on top of him are very much in control in Green Bay.It"s not like MM has all the pieces to be the next wonder boy as a HC. He is in a learning curve and the same goes for TT.

What's puplicized (Oh Mike is fully in charge of all activities that have to do with team personnel) and whats real. . . are too different things.

Completely unsubstantiated conspiracy theories anybody?

[MJZiggy]

Thompson's not the guy responsible for the depth chart. McCarthy is. Man, there's nothing that can't be blamed on Thompson. There's got to be a way we can blame Ted Thompson for global warming.


Yea, I would think it's McCarthy. Kinda strange he's listed on top but then again it means absolutely nothing at the end of July. 3rd preseason game is a when it starts to matter.

Just for the record, no matter what it says on the depth chart, Williams played with the first team today according to the training camp notes.

Also, Harvey, you're right. My dog just farted and I'm sure TT is behind it somehow...

[woodbuck27]

TT and those on top of him are very much in control in Green Bay.It"s not like MM has all the pieces to be the next wonder boy as a HC. He is in a learning curve and the same goes for TT.

What's puplicized (Oh Mike is fully in charge of all activities that have to do with team personnel) and whats real. . . are too different things.

Completely unsubstantiated conspiracy theories anybody?

Absolutely no allusion to any conspiracy theory here. Simply the bare nuts facts of life.

Head Coach MM has to work very closely with his boss and that's GM Ted Thompson. Is that common practise such a difficult revelation to believe or accept? Is that so preposterous?

Would any of us expect anything different than this as the best way within certain acceptable bounds?

[MJZiggy]

TT and those on top of him are very much in control in Green Bay.It"s not like MM has all the pieces to be the next wonder boy as a HC. He is in a learning curve and the same goes for TT.

What's puplicized (Oh Mike is fully in charge of all activities that have to do with team personnel) and whats real. . . are too different things.

Completely unsubstantiated conspiracy theories anybody?

Absolutely no allusion to any conspiracy theory here. Simply the bare nuts facts of life.

Head Coach MM has to work very closely with his boss and that's GM Ted Thompson. Is that common practise such a difficult revelation to believe or accept? Is that so preposterous?

Would any of us expect anything different than this as the best way within certain acceptable bounds?

I'm very jealous of you Woodbuck that you get to socialize with our HC and GM and they tell you this kind of stuff. Next time invite me, would ya?

[Scott Campbell]

Thompson's not the guy responsible for the depth chart. McCarthy is. Man, there's nothing that can't be blamed on Thompson. There's got to be a way we can blame Ted Thompson for global warming.

TT and those on top of him are very much in control in Green Bay.It's not like MM has all the pieces to be the next wonder boy as a HC. He is in a learning curve and the same goes for TT.


Well McCarthy wasn't even here when your scenario played out - Rodgers>Nall. That was Sherman's depth chart.

[Scott Campbell]

TT and those on top of him are very much in control in Green Bay.It"s not like MM has all the pieces to be the next wonder boy as a HC. He is in a learning curve and the same goes for TT.

What's puplicized (Oh Mike is fully in charge of all activities that have to do with team personnel) and whats real. . . are too different things.

Completely unsubstantiated conspiracy theories anybody?

Absolutely no allusion to any conspiracy theory here. Simply the bare nuts facts of life.

Head Coach MM has to work very closely with his boss and that's GM Ted Thompson. Is that common practise such a difficult revelation to believe or accept? Is that so preposterous?

Would any of us expect anything different than this as the best way within certain acceptable bounds?


I too think you're trying to pass conjecture off as fact.

[Scott Campbell]

I think way too much is being made out of a July depth chart at DT here. They rotate. They'll all get a lot of snaps. It doesn't matter.

[ZachMN]

I think its Bretsky's TT paranoia which postulated this post. MM stated quite clearly that there are three groups for D and that objectively there is no 'starting; lineup for the Defense:

From the JSO article:

Coach Mike McCarthy tried to downplay Harrell's position on the depth chart during his pre-training camp news conference Friday afternoon, indicating that Harrell was listed first because he's more likely to play on early downs in the base defense. But he also didn't deny Harrell was someone the Packers feel can help them right away.

"On defense you never really have (just) 11 starters," McCarthy said. "If you want to get detailed, and go play a game today, we haven't taken the field yet with Justin, but based on his potential if we were playing 'base,' he probably would be out there with the first 'base' based on potential. I think Corey would have been out there with the first 'sub' group.

"But as you know, there's no starting lineup."

I am just pulling your leg Bretsky........who knows about all of the mind games, I would say its to motivate for Williams.... I hope we end up signing him(Williams) and having a kick ass line with a lot of depth for a while.....break that pencil neck punk ass grossman in half, rip Tjacks head of and throw Kitna right out of Lambeau.......

[Packnut]

Harrell got two chances during one-on-one pass rush drills and he looked very ordinary. Guard Travis Leffew stuffed him on one of his turns and guard Tony Palmer handled him on the other.


Not exactly off to a great start. Rookies do tend to struggle a bit...........

[RashanGary]

Where did you hear that Packnut? I was there and I saw him get four chances. I had him winning 3 of the 4 including the Leffew guy taht you had him losing to. I did have him losing to Palmer though so that much jives.

I think I know the Leffew play though, Harrell had the guy stood up and off balance. It could have really gone either way

[retailguy]

Because it's training camp and they want him to play with the first group to see what he can do. M3 already said it meant nothing.

He also said he was "painting his dreamhouse" 35 players ago too.

[MJZiggy]

Evidently it needed a lot of paint.

[retailguy]

Evidently it needed a lot of paint.

That's not the point, and YOU KNOW it. What he says is not always what he does. He gets that from his boss, and to go on record, I don't give a damn who is at the top of the depth chart.

That being said, it was the "general consensus" when McCarthy was hired that Thompson hired him, in part, because McCarthy was likely to do as Thompson wished because he was a new coach.

Does he? Who knows, but it seems clear that Thompson knows ONE WAY - his way. Seems plausible that McCarthy will play along, no?

Especially if McCarthy believes there isn't much difference between the two players, and face it, Williams was an unheralded 6th rounder, and Harrell is not, and Thompson was BOOED loudly for his selection. Don't you think that maybe, just maybe, he's going to prove us all wrong? hmmm?

[MJZiggy]

Yeah, I do think Harrell's gonna prove us all wrong.

[Scott Campbell]

No matter how many times you click your red slippers together, Shermy is not coming home.

[retailguy]

No matter how many times you click your red slippers together, Shermy is not coming home.

Who said anything about Sherman? Tell me where I'm wrong o wise one. :P

[retailguy]

Yeah, I do think Harrell's gonna prove us all wrong.

Hope that's the case, I truly do. That guy has A LOT of pressure on him for a 16th pick, doesn't he?

[MJZiggy]

No, not really. He's in a pretty damn good rotation that can pick up the slack if he struggles at the outset.

[retailguy]

No, not really. He's in a pretty damn good rotation that can pick up the slack if he struggles at the outset.

That is the theory anyhow, but you think Harrell doesn't feel pressure after he saw and heard the boos? C'mon, don't be contrary, even if you disagree with me, you have to agree with the pressure thing.

remember too small Jamal?

[HarveyWallbangers]

No matter how many times you click your red slippers together, Shermy is not coming home.

Nice.

[swede]

Harrell's position on the depth chart causes me to raise one eyebrow slightly, nothing more. As others have stated, as a practical matter the July depth chart means little.

As for it being a means of putting pressure on Harrell, I don't think that works with this kid. He seems easy-going. Almost too easy-going.

Those clips I saw in April showed a player who was extraordinarily disruptive. The offense makes up pretty little plan and Justin messes it all up.

I think the kid is high reward/high risk. A disciplined pro offense may take him out of that chaotic game he plays and make him very ordinary. That is the risk.

The possibility exists that he will mess up four interior running lanes and the quarterbacks pocket at this level too. The high reward.

However that plays out, being number one or number two on the depth chart now will have nothing to do with it, a decidedly unimportant issue.

[HarveyWallbangers]

I have high hopes. I'm hoping for a John Henderson. Could be a Donnell Washington. Probably somewhere in between. The two things that killed Donnell don't seem to be a problem with this guy. Work ethic ("want to") and knee bend. Washington struggled with his knee bend. For a guy that's tall, that's not good. Means people can get leverage on you very easily.

[Scott Campbell]

No matter how many times you click your red slippers together, Shermy is not coming home.

Who said anything about Sherman? Tell me where I'm wrong o wise one. :P


Hey moron, show me where I said you did?

[the_idle_threat]

:cat:

:hug:

[PackerBlues]

No matter how many times you click your red slippers together, Shermy is not coming home.

Who said anything about Sherman? Tell me where I'm wrong o wise one. :P


Hey moron, show me where I said you did?

Holy Shit Batman. This makes so little sense, that I am going to have a real hard time bashing Thompson on this one.

Aww screw it, here goes nothin........


Lookin at their records for the first 3 years as GM, Sherman makes Thompson look like Matt Millen. :taunt: :taunt: :taunt:

Ha Ha Ha :knll:

[RashanGary]

If Harrell is a good, contributing member to a top leve interior line then I'm happy with his rookie year.

I'll give final judgement on the Harrell pick after three years.

[Packnut]

Where did you hear that Packnut? I was there and I saw him get four chances. I had him winning 3 of the 4 including the Leffew guy taht you had him losing to. I did have him losing to Palmer though so that much jives.

I think I know the Leffew play though, Harrell had the guy stood up and off balance. It could have really gone either way


When McCarthy watches the film of Saturday's practice, he'll see Harrell get swallowed by interior linemen on some running plays and have little success in three one-on-one pass rushing reps against journeymen offensive linemen Travis Leffew and Tony Palmer.


I got my info from Packersnews.com


Any evaluations you do are gonna be a little one-sided. :P

[Scott Campbell]

Where did you hear that Packnut? I was there and I saw him get four chances. I had him winning 3 of the 4 including the Leffew guy taht you had him losing to. I did have him losing to Palmer though so that much jives.

I think I know the Leffew play though, Harrell had the guy stood up and off balance. It could have really gone either way


When McCarthy watches the film of Saturday's practice, he'll see Harrell get swallowed by interior linemen on some running plays and have little success in three one-on-one pass rushing reps against journeymen offensive linemen Travis Leffew and Tony Palmer.


I got my info from Packersnews.com


Any evaluations you do are gonna be a little one-sided. :P


LOL

Nobody's going to be nick-naming you Mr. Objectivity any time soon, though I've grown to enjoy your posts. At least JH actually saw the plays.

Where'd you see this at Packernews?