trick play or poor sportsmanship?

[Little Whiskey]

http://www.620wtmj.com/shows/charliesykes

check out this peewee football clip. qb runs to the sidlines yelling to his coach that he has the wrong ball once he gets near the sidelines he runs to the endzone and the refs score it as a touchdown.

is this just another hiddenball trick or poor sportsmanship on the coach?

[swede]

As a youth football coach, I would never ever choose to employ such a shoddy trick. I'd rather be able to yell across the field to the other coach, "Here comes our sweep. We're gonna pull our left guard, seal your backside pursuit, and knock out your lb and safety with our flanker and end. Good luck!"

On the other hand, I defend the other coach's right to play within the legal scope of the rules. By facing a legal yet underhanded trick play my boys will learn to be game aware at all times.

I hear that people are getting faint with their concern for the lessons taught children by employing such a mean abuse of the rules in a game.

The American way is to defend the other guy's right to be a jerk while teaching your children to be better than that.

[Zool]

This is a clear case of douchebaggery on the coach. Clearly a 12 year old should be able to diagnose a trick play on the fly like that. :roll:

[BallHawk]

Cheap. And the thing is, if the defense tackled the kid, the coach would shout at the kid for tackling his player.

Loser.

[PackerBlues]

Did the coach admit to drawing up the play, or admit that he called the play? If he did, then yes, that is lame as all hell.

On the other hand, didnt you ever try a trick play when you were a kid playing in a team sport? Maybe him and his teamates came up with that play on their own, and were just having fun.

Dunno.

[Zool]

Maybe you watched without sound. You can clearly hear the coach telling him to go.

[PackerBlues]

OOOF. yeah, that was lame. Poor sportsmanship for sure, and not something to proudly teach a child.

[Green Bud Packer]

Youth sports at times are an outlet for the macho image of coaches. it's sad and more common than i remember as a kid.

[Cheesehead Craig]

Cheap. And the thing is, if the defense tackled the kid, the coach would shout at the kid for tackling his player.

Loser.
Exactly. Had the LB or S come up and tackled the kid, he would have been blindsided and the coach and the parents would have had a coronary. It was a total lose/lose for the defense.

[Little Whiskey]

the other thing is that i think the officials were in on the play as well. otherwise if the kid was yelling that he had the wrong ball the ref would have whistled the play dead and checked the ball.


as they were talking about this they brought up a little league game in which the pitcher intentionally walked a good batter to pitch to a retarded kid. is that right???

how about the hidden ball trick in baseball?? same or different?


do trick plays belong in kids sports? what about if this play happened in High School Football? College? Pros?

[MJZiggy]

I don't think in either college or pros this play could happen 'cause as soon as the ball moved no matter what the qb was yelling, the D would come and there would be a field general shaped impression in the field turf...

Or they'd have called a false start on the center.

[BallHawk]

as they were talking about this they brought up a little league game in which the pitcher intentionally walked a good batter to pitch to a retarded kid. is that right???

You kinda got it. They walked the best hitter to pitch to a kid that was recovering from cancer. That is so much worse then this.

In regards to the hidden ball trick, I don't think that's cheating. It's bush league, sure, but it's just another reason that base-runners need to pay attention to everything and be observant.

And there is no way this would fly in a high school game or any level higher then that. The refs would call BS immediately and I doubt the coach would be dumb enough to even try it. Also, the QB would be charged with a false start, I believe.

[Guiness]

Geez. Part of the game. Next thing you know you'll be ragging on me for the foil I put on the kids knuckles for the Atom playoff game...

[packinpatland]

Did the coach admit to drawing up the play, or admit that he called the play? If he did, then yes, that is lame as all hell.

On the other hand, didnt you ever try a trick play when you were a kid playing in a team sport? Maybe him and his teamates came up with that play on their own, and were just having fun.
Dunno.


I'd say this was the case if it were 'sandlot' type of game. But with a coach calling the plays, it's just cheating with an 'ok'.

[Little Whiskey]

You kinda got it. They walked the best hitter to pitch to a kid that was recovering from cancer. That is so much worse then this.



sorry, i only caught the end of very end of the story and i didn't hear that he had cancer. maybe they had the facts wrong or maybe i misunderstood.

anyway, what if this took place (i'm not sure if it did or not) in the ninth inning and their were runners on 2nd and third with 1 out? would it only matter if the kid following was a cancer patient? isn't this a fundemental strategy?

[BallHawk]

anyway, what if this took place (i'm not sure if it did or not) in the ninth inning and their were runners on 2nd and third with 1 out? would it only matter if the kid following was a cancer patient? isn't this a fundemental strategy?

That is what the whole commotion over the even was. It was the bottom of the 6th (we're talking little league) and there was a runner on 3rd with two outs. The coach ordered his pitcher to walk the big hitter coming to the plate and then the pitcher proceeded to strike out the cancer kid.

I know there is a strategical side to this event, and that's what the coaches argument was. However, this is little league, not the MLB. You play for fun, not to win.

It doesn't surprise me, though. I've had some pretty crazy Little League events happen in my life.

[Jimx29]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2hpOnoD_LEQ&NR=1

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=wrong+ball&search=Search

[LEWCWA]

You don't play to win in little league? If your playing a game and they keep score you play to win. Thats why you play games and keep score. To determine a winner and loser. Along the way, hopefully the kids learn to win with some dignity and lose with grace. But the idea that you don't play to win is absurd!

[FritzDontBlitz]

i would put all of that in the referees' lap. they could have negated the touchdown by saying it created an unfair advantage, just make them do the play over. its kiddie ball, save the morale crushing tactics for high school. :roll:

besides, i never heard the whistle blow to start the play but i assume it was already blown since every play in football starts and ends with a whistle. arent coaches still telling their players to play until the whistle blows?

[swede]

You don't play to win in little league? If your playing a game and they keep score you play to win. Thats why you play games and keep score. To determine a winner and loser. Along the way, hopefully the kids learn to win with some dignity and lose with grace. But the idea that you don't play to win is absurd!

I felt the same way when that story came out last summer. The victory for that little boy was that he had beaten down the cancer and had become well enough to play with his friends. Why would the other team have to give up its chance to win a league championship in order to provide a storybook ending for the other guys?

There are Goliaths among the youth that bat about .750 in little league. I don't think it is unsportsmanlike to intentionally walk a good hitter--even at the little league level.

Intentionally walking a good batter is nowhere near as unsporting as the deception practiced by the football coach with the "wrong ball" trick. Were I the opposing coach I'd still shake the guy's hand after the game, but I'd mention how his play had given me an opportunity to teach my young men how not to play the game.

[packinpatland]

After seeing the Letterman clip, I'm amazed. Didn't realize it was high school football that was being discussed. The QB was a senior!
Coach and team should have been penalized.

[NewsBruin]

At any level of the game, refs are aware of trick plays. Coaches meet with the refs before the start of the game and go over any plays they might be using, so that the refs don't blow a fake play dead while it's still legal. The refs will tell the coaches how the plays can and can't be run.

What both YouTube plays had in common was this:
--The ball was whistled in play
--The offense was set for >1 second
--No one on offense moved while set
--The ball was delivered from the center to the quarterback
--There were no ineligible receivers downfield (i.e. the O-line stayed in place until after the ballcarrier crossed the LOS).

Depending on the league rules, the center may have to snap the ball between his legs, but I've never heard of that before.

I think it's tacky for a little-kid league and shouldn't be run. Trick plays are still tacky at the high-school level, but by then, we're dealing with talent mismatches, players who want to compete, and enough experience to know that if the whistle is blown, everything and everyone is live.

In high school, I've seen the fake bad punt (ball snapped to a back while the punter acts as though the snap has flown way over his head), the "wrong player" (WR is split off to his sideline, and the QB keeps motioning him to get off the field, so the defense doesn't cover him), and the wrong ball plays. I think they're pretty cheesy when the game is on the line, but teams will pull one out once a season, if they believe it will swing their momentum.

As far as bigger leagues:

Under Kevin Steele, every Baylor extra point attempt started in the swinging gate formation. If the PAT blocking team didn't respect the formation, we'd run it in for two. Except that we never did run the swinging gate. Once. Ever.

I've seen a side/shovel snap in the NFL about 2-3 years back. I think the Giants had run everyone up to the line after a long gain, and the officials whistled the ball in play. The O-line was set, but gapped -- not the usual 5-wide formation. The receivers and backs were standing around. The center picked up the ball, stood up, and gave a casual one-hand shovel toss to someone in the backfield, who swept around with the rest of the line blocking.

There was also the yank-my-chinstrap-I-can't-hear-this-play-sucks trick play that Kordell Stewart ran with the Steelers. The refs must have known completely about this, or that play would have failed in the backfield.

[Little Whiskey]

and the dan marino fake ball spike against the jets

[dt2121]

One other thing to add about the intentional walk situation is that the kid who had survived cancer was on the Dan Patrick show and said that it was the correct move to intentionally walk the guy ahead of him (who had 2 HR's already in the game) and that he wouldn't want the other team to not do what they would've done because he was a cancer patient. He said they probably would've walked the stud no matter who was batting after him. He said that he loves situations like that and that he should've responded with a hit. Also, it made him feel like an average, everyday, normal kid to be in that situation.