Workouts paying off for Favre

[HarveyWallbangers]

Innovative regimen keeps him in shape
By TOM SILVERSTEIN


Green Bay - There are pads you can wear on your ribs, braces you can wrap around your knees and orthotics you can put in your shoes, but when you play in the National Football League, there is no measure of protection against old age.

When the body signals the end, it's over.

It hasn't happened yet to the Green Bay Packers' Brett Favre, who at age 37 is the oldest starting quarterback in the NFL and the second-oldest quarterback overall.

If it doesn't happen this season, Favre can at least be assured that he will be in the best physical condition he possibly could. He and his personal trainer, Ken Croner, have seen to that, teaming on an eight-week program designed to sharpen the skills Favre needs most to play quarterback.

"Brett, his focus, his determination and the effort he put in, I can't even tell you," said Croner, a performance specialist for Athletes' Performance in Tempe, Ariz. "He looks better now than he did two years ago when I worked with him. I'm talking about movement, physically, everything.

"He's made the commitment to do everything he possibly could to get himself ready for the season. There's nothing that I do. It's Brett Favre. His work ethic makes this program work."

Croner lived with the Favre family in Hattiesburg, Miss., while he trained the quarterback, putting Favre through five workouts a week beginning the first week of April. The only break in their routine was during the weeks the Packers held mini-camps and organized team activities at their facility.

During the three weeks before training camp, Croner and Favre kicked the program into high gear, focusing on exercises that are quarterback-specific. Five days a week, they got up at 7 a.m. and prepared for a 60- to 75-minute workout that simulated what Favre might go through in a typical game.

Sometimes they would throw at night, and three times a week Favre would go over to nearby Oak Grove High School and practice with the football team, throwing passes to their receivers and running sprints and stadium stairs with the entire team.

"What Brett does on the field, that's Brett Favre," Croner said. "He deserves all the credit. We try to do things to help him and give him best chance to succeed. It doesn't guarantee anything.

"But I can tell you he's moving better than (two years ago). I admire Brett, how he plays and why he plays and his work ethic. The time and effort he put in was amazing. It really is."
Meeting of the minds

Croner, a former Butler University basketball player, met Favre when he assisted with the Packers' strength and conditioning program during the 2003 off-season.

Under former coach Mike Sherman, Croner was sent to Hattiesburg to help Favre get ready for the season. Last year, under coach Mike McCarthy, Favre didn't work with Croner, in part because there was no relationship between McCarthy and Croner and Favre didn't make his decision to return until late April.

McCarthy visited Athletes Performance this off-season and gave Croner his blessing to spend the spring with Favre, getting him ready for the 2007 season. Not only did Favre need to prepare himself for another year, but he was coming off surgery to remove bone chips from his left ankle.

When they first got together, Favre's ankle was in fairly solid shape, and Croner's only concern was rebuilding its strength. From the start, they began working on Favre's overall conditioning, working primarily with movement drills designed to increase the quarterback's endurance and stretch his muscles.

"We were trying to get those muscles moving again. We try to get that soreness out," Croner said.

Favre, who has maintained his weight at around 220 pounds, doesn't run sprints or hills or miles around the track.

He works with medicine balls, bungee ropes and different kinds of weights to build up his strength and endurance. Instead of countless stomach crunches, he two-hands a medicine ball against a wall, making sure his form is proper and his feet and legs are involved.

In June, using a plan approved by the coaches and the medical staff, Favre began simulating movements he'll have to make in a game, working specifically on maintaining his fundamentals under physical duress.

"I thought he came to camp in pretty good shape. He's moving well," quarterback coach Tom Clements said. "I think the work paid off."
Designing the program

Favre, who had to leave camp Monday after the death of his wife's stepfather and will return to practice today, sat down with Croner and broke down the quarterback position for him so he would understand what areas to focus on. Croner watched DVDs of Favre playing regular-season games and devised exercises designed to simulate the physical stress the quarterback will be under this year.

Using bungee ropes tied to Favre's waist, he had the quarterback drop back to pass under resistance. Sometimes it was a three-step drop, other times it was a five- or seven-step drop. Sometimes it was a rollout. Each repetition was timed precisely to coincide with how long Favre would have to get back to the line of scrimmage in a real game.
Over and over

Croner sometimes had Favre run the drill seven times to simulate a seven-play drive. Then he had him run it three times. On some days, by the time they were done, they had gone through an entire game.

"We got really creative," Croner said. "When I was out here two years ago, we really put our heads together, and it's gotten better over time. The most creative things, we had some drills where I had him hooked up to a bungee and had him go with a five-step drop.

" He's a little fatigued from the drop. In essence, we're trying to simulate him throwing a pass when he's tired."

Croner also had an apparatus that he could connect to both himself and to Favre, allowing Favre to get more creative with the drops.

"It allows him to rotate when he drops back," Croner said. "With a regular bungee he's dropping straight back. With this apparatus he's rolling out with me. He takes a three-step drop, looks, coverage is tight. He rolls right, coverage is still tight. He's got to backpedal and go to the left. All this time he has resistance."

During all of his exercises, Favre wore a heart monitor so he could see his gains in cardiovascular conditioning. Getting in better condition makes his heart rate drop faster after a play and cuts the fatigue he would feel for the next play.

A big focus of the program is keeping alive the spring in Favre's legs. He doesn't run as he did a decade ago, but as long as his feet are still quick, he can sidestep pressure and plant his feet to throw after sprinting out of the pocket.

"If you think about what he does in the huddle, we're working more on timing as far as his feet, being able to move efficiently," Croner said.

Favre's sore shoulder from the end of the June practices cleared up in the final weeks before training camp, so there are not too many concerns there.

Still, as he nears his 38th birthday in October, Favre knows time is running out on his career. But if he still has the mental and physical skills to be a top quarterback in the NFL, he'll not have squandered a shot at one last hurrah by neglecting his body.

In a season with so many question marks, the Packers can at least be assured of that.

[Packnut]

#04 is a warrior plain and simple.

[The Shadow]

Personally, it's not Favre's body (from the neck down) I worry about. He is a warrior, no question.
It's his head.
His decision-making is the largest factor in the Packers won/lost record this year. I would have him in the film room more than the weight room.

[Packnut]

Personally, it's not Favre's body (from the neck down) I worry about.
It's his head.
His decision-making is the largest factor in the Packers won/lost record this year.


Yep, the line , running game and WR's have nothing to do with it. :roll:

[The Shadow]

Personally, it's not Favre's body (from the neck down) I worry about.
It's his head.
His decision-making is the largest factor in the Packers won/lost record this year.


Yep, the line , running game and WR's have nothing to do with it. :roll:


REPEAT : His decision-making is the largest factor in the Packers won/lost record this year.

[Merlin]

The gunslinger mentality is lost on most Favre critics. It isn't his decision making that's the problem. It's his instinct to hit the route that the guy in the green jersey is supposed to be running. The problem is, either the guy in the green jersey decided to break his route, doesn't know the route, can't read the defense or couldn't catch the ball anyway. Does anyone know how many different WR's Favre has had to throw to in the past two seasons? I am willing to bet that it is a hell of a lot more then at anytime ever in his career. It's one thing when one guy goes down. It's completely another when they all go down, or nearly all of them and then the replacements suck ass so you have to keep throwing new guys in.

Anyone else ever see Favre scream at receivers as much as he had the past two years after an int?

Yeah, he shouldn't have thrown the ball to the guy who should have been there. It's all on Favre. Every other QB in the league that throws to a spot makes good decisions though right?

[The Shadow]

".......The problem is, either the guy in the green jersey decided to break his route, doesn't know the route, can't read the defense or couldn't catch the ball anyway."

Sigh.
It's difficult to reason with glassy-eyed, true believer Cult members.

[Merlin]

More difficult to reason with someone who doesn't know the game (that would be you).

The LARGEST part of this season comes down to the offense gelling. Not Favre's decision making. You buy into the media crap to easily. But go on believing that Favre controls everyone and their performance on the field. It's a one man show for the Packers I guess.

[The Shadow]

Sigh.
It's SO difficult to reason with glassy-eyed, true believer Cult members.

[Merlin]

Dude, you need professional help...

[The Shadow]

So I can jock worship along with you?
Look, here's a newsflash : Favre is a great player - but not infallible.
He has always had a tendency to rely far more on athletic ability than savvy.
Now, as he gets older and his abilities decrease, he needs to compensate; to make smarter decisions in the pocket.
Claiming that every poor decision and interception was ALWAYS another player's fault is really not reasonable....is it?
Think - I know you can do it if you try.

[HarveyWallbangers]

So I can jock worship along with you?
Look, here's a newsflash : Favre is a great player - but not infallible.
He has always had a tendency to rely far more on athletic ability than savvy.
Now, as he gets older and his abilities decrease, he needs to compensate; to make smarter decisions in the pocket.
Claiming that every poor decision and interception was ALWAYS another player's fault is really not reasonable....is it?
Think - I know you can do it if you try.

I'm on both sides. I think people who think Favre just goes back and wings are dead wrong. You don't throw for 64% completion rate, 4000 yards, and 30 TDs at the age of 35 only getting by on natural ability. In his MVP years, he wasn't throwing to Hall of Fame receivers--although the TEs helped. Sure, he takes chances, but not near as many as people make it out to be. In 2005, what else was he going to do? The team was 2-10 or something and had few people healthy. He improved last year, and his stats would have looked a lot better without the most drops in the league. He still needs good coaching, but this team would have been below average since 1998 without him, and they wouldn't have been championship caliber before that without him.

[Pack_Attack88]

i understand that some are sick of Favre fans saying it was the WR's fault.. but you also have to understand that it is a factor and cant deny that...


just go back to that Viking game on NFL network late last season.. Favre threw that INT to Smoot for the TD.. they then had Favre mic'd and as he came off the field McCarthy asked 'what was that?', and Fave said 'I threw the hook'... apparently the WR didnt do the right route as many here always say..

now I am not saying this is the case all the time, but you Favre bashers that dont want to acknowledge this, the proof is in the pudding on National tv.. Go back and watch the game and you will see what i am talking about!

[RashanGary]

I agree with both sides as well. Mostly I think it's his surrounding cast. HOwever, in Shermans last year, I think it was a Favre/Sherman/Surrounding combo. I personally thought Sherman had a "fuck it" attitude on the sideline. It was almost like he gave Favre a "Go ahead and do whatever teh hell you want, we're screwed anyway" Green light and I don't think he masked the "we're screwed" too well becuase his body language was that of a pouting baby with his arms crossed many times.


Anyway, Favre deserves some blame for just giving up and throwing bombs into triple coverage that year, but last year was probably more of the Oline and the new system than it was Favre. This year, I expect a better year out of Favre. 26 TD's 12 INT's with 3,800 yds and a 61% comp%. I think the line and the season in the offense is going to pay dividends for this offense.

[Fritz]

So I can jock worship along with you?
Look, here's a newsflash : Favre is a great player - but not infallible.
He has always had a tendency to rely far more on athletic ability than savvy.
Now, as he gets older and his abilities decrease, he needs to compensate; to make smarter decisions in the pocket.
Claiming that every poor decision and interception was ALWAYS another player's fault is really not reasonable....is it?
Think - I know you can do it if you try.

I think there are good points on both sides here. I remember back in the day, when Favre was a young QB, thinking that as he got older he might get even better because he'd settle down and quit making so many (seemingly) foolish throws. But that never did happen. I've always been just a little disappointed, though I recognize that perhaps if Favre did that, he'd also not be able to make some of the amazing throws he does. However, as his physical skills diminish, he's going to be able to maker fewer and fewer of those throws - yet he does not appear to be compensating by making wiser decisions.

Still, I recognize that he has been and still is an excellent QB and athlete, and if it were me out there, I'd probably not be able to even throw the ball twenty yards, much less make a good decision while 300 lb guys are flying at me...

So I'm good with having Favre back there, my disappointment notwithstanding.

[woodbuck27]

Personally, it's not Favre's body (from the neck down) I worry about. He is a warrior, no question.
It's his head.
His decision-making is the largest factor in the Packers won/lost record this year. I would have him in the film room more than the weight room.

Yaa Ya Ya !!

Your Favre is my Ted Thompson. :)

At least Brett Favre again demonstrated his resolve (commitment) to be all there for our team.

An operation to rid himself of bone chips (ankle) and effort put forth to be in top physical condition to complete another very difficult 16 game schedule demonstrates his determination to winning for us.

TT didn't give him a lot of support or tools to work with on our offense this off season. Except for rookies. Isn't that the TRUTH Shadow?

So Shadow, on game day when Favre has to do checkdowns over and over again after being forced to go to the air over and over again because our running game is off, to way off.

Our TE or RB/FB can't get open or catch the ball on third downs because he doesn't have the skills needed.

Those factors force Brett Favre over and over again to try the very difficult throw ( and gets picked ) because that's the only chance the Packers have to be in a game YOU will blame Brett Favre. That's too funny Shadow. :)

Would you prefer the offense goes three and out more this season. Translation. . . our team not in the game. As opposed to Brett Favre at least giving his best to move the sticks?

When and why (all of that) Favre is making those so called bad decisions has to be entered in the analysis.

[woodbuck27]

Personally, it's not Favre's body (from the neck down) I worry about.
It's his head.
His decision-making is the largest factor in the Packers won/lost record this year.


Yep, the line , running game and WR's have nothing to do with it. :roll:


REPEAT : His decision-making is the largest factor in the Packers won/lost record this year.

BALLS !!!!

Shadow . . .YOUR teams starting QB for the next two seasons, at least :) :

Current players prospectus to enter the HOF.

1. Brett Favre

At the top of the heap is an obvious pick. Favre's body of work is unmatched among active quarterbacks.

The three-time NFL MVP ranks second in career passing yards (57,500 -- 3,861 shy of Dan Marino), and is poised to break Marino's all-time record for touchdown passes. Favre has 414 career TD passes, six shy of the record.

Favre's résumé also includes back-to-back Super Bowl appearances, including a victory in Super Bowl XXXI.

The face of the Packers' franchise since the early 1990s,

Favre has been a fierce competitor and a model of durability. His consecutive games streak is at 237 and counting, an NFL record for quarterbacks.

Edit woodbuck27: Oh and. . .

He also boasts 15 consecutive seasons with at least 300 completions and 3,000 passing yards.

[woodbuck27]

I agree with both sides as well. Mostly I think it's his surrounding cast. HOwever, in Shermans last year, I think it was a Favre/Sherman/Surrounding combo. I personally thought Sherman had a "fuck it" attitude on the sideline. It was almost like he gave Favre a "Go ahead and do whatever teh hell you want, we're screwed anyway" Green light and I don't think he masked the "we're screwed" too well becuase his body language was that of a pouting baby with his arms crossed many times.

woodbuck27:

JH

Our OL was hurting to horrid in 2005. TT admits that recently he blew it in supplying poor talent to that OL. Mike Sherman and the offensive co-ordinator and OL coach could only work with what TT gave them to work with.

Then there was all the adversity (too many injuries to key players and no depth) that our team was saddled with.

That contributed hugely to Favre's off season and those 29 picks.

** Favre (at least trying. . . to do something) is what we get in his competitive drive and consecuently the sacrifice, or the 'H' with pride.

************************************************** **********


Anyway, Favre deserves some blame for just giving up and throwing bombs into triple coverage that year, but last year was probably more of the Oline and the new system than it was Favre.

woodbuck27:

** Yes !

************************************************** **********

This year, I expect a better year out of Favre. 26 TD's 12 INT's with 3,800 yds and a 61% comp%.

woodbuck27:

Lofty numbers JH, but I respect that confidence. :)

************************************************** **********

I think the line and the season in the offense is going to pay dividends for this offense.

woodbuck27:

Yup. :)

GO PACKERS !!

[woodbuck27]

So I can jock worship along with you?
Look, here's a newsflash : Favre is a great player - but not infallible.
He has always had a tendency to rely far more on athletic ability than savvy.
Now, as he gets older and his abilities decrease, he needs to compensate; to make smarter decisions in the pocket.
Claiming that every poor decision and interception was ALWAYS another player's fault is really not reasonable....is it?
Think - I know you can do it if you try.

I think there are good points on both sides here. I remember back in the day, when Favre was a young QB, thinking that as he got older he might get even better because he'd settle down and quit making so many (seemingly) foolish throws. But that never did happen. I've always been just a little disappointed, though I recognize that perhaps if Favre did that, he'd also not be able to make some of the amazing throws he does. However, as his physical skills diminish, he's going to be able to maker fewer and fewer of those throws - yet he does not appear to be compensating by making wiser decisions.

Still, I recognize that he has been and still is an excellent QB and athlete, and if it were me out there, I'd probably not be able to even throw the ball twenty yards, much less make a good decision while 300 lb guys are flying at me...

So I'm good with having Favre back there, my disappointment notwithstanding.

Solid take Fritz.

Brett Favre is afterall obviously GREAT but not a GOD and human.

If he can stay healthy is my biggest concern for our team, and if we are fortunate to see that health over the full schedule we will see some of that greatness fr. Favre again in 2007.

Most people that understand the game and our team will admit that Brett Favre gives us a real chance to win any game.

I do believe that our team is hard against it this season and I'll be very surprized if we win 8. I sure hope I"m wrong. :)

GO PACKERS !!

[Packnut]

".......The problem is, either the guy in the green jersey decided to break his route, doesn't know the route, can't read the defense or couldn't catch the ball anyway."

Sigh.
It's difficult to reason with glassy-eyed, true believer Cult members.

And it's difficult to reason with someone who has little understanding of the game. The Packer receiving corps had the most drops. They max protected the majority of the time. They had 2 rookies and a new center on the line. When Moll played they had 3 rookies on the OL. Yet, according to you, it's all on Favre. Do you have any idea how just plain dumb that is?

I used to get pissed off at the stupid things you would post, but then I realized it was from not understanding the game. Now I just feel sorry for you. Football is a much better game and a lot more fun when you really get what's going on with each and every play. Any knowledgeable fan knows that QB's get to much glory and to much blame. They know how many things have to go right in order to complete a pass. Most of all they know that for any QB to succeed, he need's talent around him. That is a FACT in the NFL and one that cannot be disputed......

[The Leaper]

I used to get pissed off at the stupid things you would post, but then I realized it was from not understanding the game. Now I just feel sorry for you. Football is a much better game and a lot more fun when you really get what's going on with each and every play. Any knowledgeable fan knows that QB's get to much glory and to much blame. They know how many things have to go right in order to complete a pass. Most of all they know that for any QB to succeed, he need's talent around him. That is a FACT in the NFL and one that cannot be disputed......

I agree.

Anyone who claims that Favre's decision making last year was horrible needs to have their head examined. He did not make too many bad throws last year...the result of having a coach who is willing to chew his ass if he makes a poor play.

Most poor plays last year were the result of having 8 guys blocking on pass plays and inexperience and lack of talent at the skill positions. That limits options, makes it far easier for the defense, and results in fewer big plays. Few QBs in the NFL could have put up the numbers Favre did last year in Green Bay with the same circumstances.

[the_idle_threat]

On another note ...


[T]hree times a week Favre would go over to nearby Oak Grove High School and practice with the football team, throwing passes to their receivers and running sprints and stadium stairs with the entire team.

Imagine being one of these kids ... that had to be really cool!

[The Shadow]

".......The problem is, either the guy in the green jersey decided to break his route, doesn't know the route, can't read the defense or couldn't catch the ball anyway."

Sigh.
It's difficult to reason with glassy-eyed, true believer Cult members.

And it's difficult to reason with someone who has little understanding of the game. The Packer receiving corps had the most drops. They max protected the majority of the time. They had 2 rookies and a new center on the line. When Moll played they had 3 rookies on the OL. Yet, according to you, it's all on Favre. Do you have any idea how just plain dumb that is?

I used to get pissed off at the stupid things you would post, but then I realized it was from not understanding the game. Now I just feel sorry for you. Football is a much better game and a lot more fun when you really get what's going on with each and every play. Any knowledgeable fan knows that QB's get to much glory and to much blame. They know how many things have to go right in order to complete a pass. Most of all they know that for any QB to succeed, he need's talent around him. That is a FACT in the NFL and one that cannot be disputed......

So then : let me try to elevate my 'understanding of the game' to your dizzying heights.
Brett Favre NEVER makes a poor decision.
Each & every one of his mistakes can be blamed on someone else.
Favre does not need to improve any phase of his game - he is perfect ALWAYS in everything he says and does.
Ted Thompson is now the reason Favre does not take the Packers to the Super Bowl every year.

Look, friends : Brett Favre is a fine quarterback and a HOF warrior.
But NO player is above the need to always be improving.
It IS possible to view the team objectively - and that entails viewing Brett Favre objectively.
I am often roundly criticized as an 'anti-Favre poster', but that's not the case at all. I just refuse to worship him - or any other player.

Category #3 : The Favre Cultists/ Jock-Sniffers
Think that people like that guy on the commercial who hides in a team clothes hamper just to get a whiff of an NFL player don’t exist? Think again, Bunky.
These are the folks who one suspects were just not very good at sports. Now, they vicariously live through the exploits of Brett Favre.
How to Recognize Them?
Look for the poster who explains away each of Favre’s interceptions –as many as 6 in a single game!- by always assigning blame elsewhere.
Note that in their eyes, Brett Favre -like the Pope - infallible in word and deed. Whatever he says or does MUST be great.
When writing about Favre, their words are reverential enough for Abraham Lincoln, Buddha, etc.
Mating Call Posts
“If Jesus Were Coach, His QB Would be Favre”.
“This is What Favre is Thinking/Doing/Dreaming Right Now”.
“Please, Please Don’t –sniff,sniff, Retire, Brett!”
"Does Brett Wear Boxers or Briefs?"
“Favre Would Build a Better Ark Than Noah.”
“What Would Favre Do?”

[packinpatland]

"So then : let me try to elevate my 'understanding of the game' to your dizzying heights.
Brett Favre NEVER makes a poor decision.
Each & every one of his mistakes can be blamed on someone else.
Favre does not need to improve any phase of his game - he is perfect ALWAYS in everything he says and does.
Ted Thompson is now the reason Favre does not take the Packers to the Super Bowl every year. "

I don't recollect anyone saying any one of these things. I realize you are exaggerating to make a point, but come on.

"I am often roundly criticized as an 'anti-Favre poster', but that's not the case at all. I just refuse to worship him - or any other player. "

I don't think there is a poster here that 'worships' Favre. That's reserved for God............................and Clapton. :wink:

[Merlin]

I think the reason you get that stigma Shadow is because you can't see the forest between the trees. It's okay for you to make a blanket statement that this season all hinges on Favres decision making. But the second anyone refutes that with reality, you claim they are sniffing Favre's jock.

I don't see anyone who said he never made a bad decision. I don't see anyone here who is sniffing his jock. What I do see is someone who doesn't know the game sitting on his soap box preaching to the choir. Favre has made poor decisions in his career. He is on the downside of his career. No one is denying that. But saying everything hinges on him is naive and an uneducated statement. Taking the position you have is also naive and shows your lack of understanding of not only football but the whole team concept.

I have to agree with Packnut here, it's pointless to argue with you. I also agree that you aren't educated enough about the game. I however don't feel sorry for you. I will reserve that for people that deserve it.

[woodbuck27]

".......The problem is, either the guy in the green jersey decided to break his route, doesn't know the route, can't read the defense or couldn't catch the ball anyway."

Sigh.
It's difficult to reason with glassy-eyed, true believer Cult members.

And it's difficult to reason with someone who has little understanding of the game. The Packer receiving corps had the most drops. They max protected the majority of the time. They had 2 rookies and a new center on the line. When Moll played they had 3 rookies on the OL. Yet, according to you, it's all on Favre. Do you have any idea how just plain dumb that is?

I used to get pissed off at the stupid things you would post, but then I realized it was from not understanding the game. Now I just feel sorry for you. Football is a much better game and a lot more fun when you really get what's going on with each and every play. Any knowledgeable fan knows that QB's get to much glory and to much blame. They know how many things have to go right in order to complete a pass. Most of all they know that for any QB to succeed, he need's talent around him. That is a FACT in the NFL and one that cannot be disputed......

So then : let me try to elevate my 'understanding of the game' to your dizzying heights.
Brett Favre NEVER makes a poor decision.
Each & every one of his mistakes can be blamed on someone else.
Favre does not need to improve any phase of his game - he is perfect ALWAYS in everything he says and does.
Ted Thompson is now the reason Favre does not take the Packers to the Super Bowl every year.

Look, friends : Brett Favre is a fine quarterback and a HOF warrior.
But NO player is above the need to always be improving.
It IS possible to view the team objectively - and that entails viewing Brett Favre objectively.
I am often roundly criticized as an 'anti-Favre poster', but that's not the case at all. I just refuse to worship him - or any other player.

Category #3 : The Favre Cultists/ Jock-Sniffers
Think that people like that guy on the commercial who hides in a team clothes hamper just to get a whiff of an NFL player don’t exist? Think again, Bunky.
These are the folks who one suspects were just not very good at sports. Now, they vicariously live through the exploits of Brett Favre.
How to Recognize Them?
Look for the poster who explains away each of Favre’s interceptions –as many as 6 in a single game!- by always assigning blame elsewhere.
Note that in their eyes, Brett Favre -like the Pope - infallible in word and deed. Whatever he says or does MUST be great.
When writing about Favre, their words are reverential enough for Abraham Lincoln, Buddha, etc.
Mating Call Posts
“If Jesus Were Coach, His QB Would be Favre”.
“This is What Favre is Thinking/Doing/Dreaming Right Now”.
“Please, Please Don’t –sniff,sniff, Retire, Brett!”
"Does Brett Wear Boxers or Briefs?"
“Favre Would Build a Better Ark Than Noah.”
“What Would Favre Do?”

Favre clearly had an excellent working relationship with MM and QB coach Tom Clements in 2006.

We saw a major shake-up in his decision making for the betterment of the team last season. Is there any reason to believe that won't continue Shadow?

Many here love Brett Favre, but when he blows one we try to determine why that was the result.

Our resources are limited and we try our best to understand collectively. We don't mke excuses for him when he pass's downfield when our WR's are well covered or he try's the risky throw.

We know that is part of the package that makes Favre who he is. We try to understand his efforts not excuse him.

That applies to all players,the coachs and GM.

Sometimes we rub one another the wrong way, but in the end collectively we are Packer fans and try our best to get a grip on the why's.

The bottom line is that we have our limitations and that it's OK to back down rather than be incorrigible or foolish.

We are all in this together Packer fan. :)

GO PACKERS !!

[packinpatland]

We are all in this together Packer fan.


Amen to that!!!

[The Shadow]

"......It's okay for you to make a blanket statement that this season all hinges on Favres decision making."

Please go back and review what was actually written.
I merely said that in my opinion, Favre's decision making was the MOST important factor. Why does any suggestion that Favre can do better always draw such hysteria?
Not understand the game? Hmmm. Well, do you happen to remember Ken Bowman's technique that enabled Jerry Kramer's block on Jethro Pugh to work on the last play of the Ice Bowl? Remember the hellacious hits wide receiver Perry Kemp took on sideline routes? Why the draw to Chuck Mercein was such an outstanding call? I've only lived & died with the Packers since 1961; I apologize for my total lack of knowledge about the game.

Yes, I realize that things can get heated - and I DO know we are all on the same side (most evident when a Bear or Viking troll appears).
For me, we can snipe away at each other's opinions BECAUSE we all know, deep down, that we are Packers brothers-in-arms.

[swede]

Personally, it's not Favre's body (from the neck down) I worry about. He is a warrior, no question.
It's his head.
His decision-making is the largest factor in the Packers won/lost record this year. I would have him in the film room more than the weight room.

Above is the quote for which Shadow's ass got jumped by Merlin and Woody.

My take on Shadow's post is that he believes that Favre's committment to staying in shape and playing with physical intensity on every snap is a given.

I thought Shadow then went on to say that Brett should play smarter and reduce risks taken in a game.

I generally agree with that assessment, although it may be argued that Brett already has shown that he can do that with his play last year. And I'm not convinced that Brett's head will be the single biggest factor in determining team success this year.

I would think that O line, D line, and WR play will be more important than Brett's head.

O line play improves pass AND run game.

D line improves play in the defensive backfield and allows linebackers to move more freely.

WRs that are in the right place at the right time without a lot of opposing D backs for company generally get the ball when Brett is the quarterback. (Sometimes they get the ball when they DO have D Backs hanging all over their ass which is why it has been fun to watch packer football in the Brett Favre era.)

[Partial]

I actually completely agree with Shadow. I just don't want to fight with Merlin.

[GBRulz]

Does Favre give us the best chance to win? YES. nuff said. 8-)

[MJZiggy]

Amen, sistah!!!

[packinpatland]

Ditto

[woodbuck27]

We'er in TC now and the time to point fingers (May -July) has expired. :)

Some of us hoped for a little more acquired talent on 'O' in this off season and we've butted heads a good deal over that. Now that's over except for the TC cuts and a possible trade.

We'll see more players get a shot with our team (I expect) and maybe we'll get another GADO thrill. :)

For us to win we need the most out of our roster. Yet the last player that concerns me is Favre. If he toss's it up like we saw him doing in the latter part of 2005 then he'll say goodbye because that will be a sure sign that we're behind the 8-ball too much.

I don't expect that will happen. He'll continue to give us the same honest effort overall and excellent winning attitude he has for most of his career.

[Bretsky]

Shadow makes a valid point that Favre needs to be smart to give Green Bay the best chance to win.

Packnut brings out good points that it is often not Favre's lack of intelligence, but the lack of talent surrounding him that leads to the mistakes.

To me they kind of go hand in hand. When our offense is not surrounded by playmakers, the room for error is often very little. To me, what Shadow seems to hint at criticism of Favre (not being smart and taking too many gambles) is also what has made Favre special over the years. He makes plays other QB's can not and do not even try, and sometimes those efforts turn into mistakes.

We don't have many weapons that get Tory Holt like open. Some would argue that Favre should throw the ball away much more when an obvious target is not there. But the obvious targets are not there that often, and Favre is still capable of making some of the gambling throws that others can not. So what has led to Favre's greatest success also sometimes results in his greatest weakness. If you coach Favre to be ultra conservative and not make mistakes, you will lose many more special plays that Favre will make.

I respect both sides of this debate.

To me I'd completely disagree that the most important factor in our success if Favre being more clever. I say it's developing a running game with our young OG's and inexperienced RB's.

That takes the pressure off of Favre and then it will not be as necessary for him to take the gambles he often takes. We lack proven playmakers. If the OL/RB game is not there we'll need to take gambles to move the ball and score. That will lead to greatness and crap.

To me the talent around Favre makes or breaks this offense.

But I'm not smarter than the next dude giving views in here.



Cheers,
B

[woodbuck27]

Most in here realize that we will only be as good as our running game.

We have to replace Ahman Green and that. . .

won't be a piece of cake.

I keep reading that our OL will be better this season but that has to be measured to be an creditable fact.

We have to use this season to somehow arrive on a similiar page. We are being sold on the system but the bottom line has to be how competitive are we in 2007.

We have to somehow get to real. A can of beans will never be a gourmet dinner. We need talent on offense. We need someone to step up at RB. We need some big plays at TE and FB.

If we don't see more of that this season then there has to be 'H' to pay before the next off season.

We as Packer fans shouldn't have to suffer through a similiar off season as we just did. It was pathetic.

A no show !!