Ron Paul

[Partial]

Whoo, go Ronnie!

[BallHawk]

Are you one of his YouTube cronies?

[Partial]

No. He is just a smart man. He won't win because he doesn't have the support, but he is certainly smart enough and in my opinion the right man for the job.

[BallHawk]

No. He is just a smart man. He won't win because he doesn't have the support, but he is certainly smart enough and in my opinion the right man for the job.

He certainly has a backing among the 20-30 year old demographic. I don't think his problem is support, he just doesn't have the name appeal. Obviously, he's more known now then he was when he first entered the race, but when you're competing against "The People's Hero" in Giuliani and a guy that's made big headline in Romney, you're not only going to have to go the extra mile for votes, but for money and fundraising, as well. I think that his stance on the issues is solid and that he is a likable guy. However, he's just another guy who "tells it like it is." He doesn't stand out from the crowd, he doesn't make headlines. In an interview with James Kotecki he seemed like a good guy, but I don't see it working for him. If I had to see a GOP candidate elected (it won't happen, but hypothetical situation here) I would place him 2nd, behind Romney. Hell, I think Romney's going to get the GOP nomination. He's earning money in fundraising and his name gets in the news enough. He's lucky that he's running against a relatively weak field, though

[Partial]

No. He is just a smart man. He won't win because he doesn't have the support, but he is certainly smart enough and in my opinion the right man for the job.

He certainly has a backing among the 20-30 year old demographic. I don't think his problem is support, he just doesn't have the name appeal. Obviously, he's more known now then he was when he first entered the race, but when you're competing against "The People's Hero" in Giuliani and a guy that's made big headline in Romney, you're not only going to have to go the extra mile for votes, but for money and fundraising, as well. I think that his stance on the issues is solid and that he is a likable guy. However, he's just another guy who "tells it like it is." He doesn't stand out from the crowd, he doesn't make headlines. In an interview with James Kotecki he seemed like a good guy, but I don't see it working for him. If I had to see a GOP candidate elected (it won't happen, but hypothetical situation here) I would place him 2nd, behind Romney. Hell, I think Romney's going to get the GOP nomination. He's earning money in fundraising and his name gets in the news enough. He's lucky that he's running against a relatively weak field, though

Um, a GOP candidate will be elected.. Are you crazy? Chocolate Hussein Obama or a women? Not to knock on either of those, but I am simply stating why they won't be voted in. Society as a whole is not ready for a female president (why that is I know not of) or a black/muslin either.

I don't think it will be Paul or Romney. I think it'll be Fred Thompson or Guiliani.

[Freak Out]

Ron Paul is a good guy but he has no $$$$. He also needs a little establishment backing and he has none. In his case two strikes are as good as three. Obama will not get the nomination Clinton will.....and depending on who the "group" throw out against her she has a good shot.

[BallHawk]

Um, a GOP candidate will be elected.. Are you crazy? Chocolate Hussein Obama or a women? Not to knock on either of those, but I am simply stating why they won't be voted in. Society as a whole is not ready for a female president (why that is I know not of) or a black/muslin either.

Have you seen the polls? You do the same thing everybody else does. If you look at the polls the majority of America would be willing to elect a woman or a black president. However, the majority of America thinks that majority of America, besides them, wouldn't be willing to elect a black president.

Also, I'm assuming that is supposed to be "Muslim." Ummmm....are you assuming since his middle name is Hussein he's a muslim? He's worked extensively in Chicago's community, largely working through churches. There is no way in hell he's muslim or even associates with the Islamic community. Just because Fox news says it, doesn't mean it's true.

America will elect a black/woman this election. I guarantee it.

[MJZiggy]

Hey, if they team up, we could elect both...

[Jimx29]

Never quite understood that whole transgender dealio.


















:lol:

[Partial]

Um, a GOP candidate will be elected.. Are you crazy? Chocolate Hussein Obama or a women? Not to knock on either of those, but I am simply stating why they won't be voted in. Society as a whole is not ready for a female president (why that is I know not of) or a black/muslin either.

Have you seen the polls? You do the same thing everybody else does. If you look at the polls the majority of America would be willing to elect a woman or a black president. However, the majority of America thinks that majority of America, besides them, wouldn't be willing to elect a black president.

Also, I'm assuming that is supposed to be "Muslim." Ummmm....are you assuming since his middle name is Hussein he's a muslim? He's worked extensively in Chicago's community, largely working through churches. There is no way in hell he's muslim or even associates with the Islamic community. Just because Fox news says it, doesn't mean it's true.

America will elect a black/woman this election. I guarantee it.

What exactly has Obama or Hilary done? Obama has been a Senator for 2 years and has spent the whole time campaigning to be president, not addressing issues.

Hilary is not at all qualified.

Edwards is merely throwing his name in the hat and dividing the party.

Sorry, but a dem isn't going to win.

Not that Guiliani is any better in terms of qualifications, but you've got the christians who are going to vote for him. Plus he will win New York despite being Republican. That will be a critical loss to the Dems.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Um, a GOP candidate will be elected.. Are you crazy? Chocolate Hussein Obama or a women? Not to knock on either of those, but I am simply stating why they won't be voted in. Society as a whole is not ready for a female president (why that is I know not of) or a black/muslin either.

Have you seen the polls? You do the same thing everybody else does. If you look at the polls the majority of America would be willing to elect a woman or a black president. However, the majority of America thinks that majority of America, besides them, wouldn't be willing to elect a black president.

Also, I'm assuming that is supposed to be "Muslim." Ummmm....are you assuming since his middle name is Hussein he's a muslim? He's worked extensively in Chicago's community, largely working through churches. There is no way in hell he's muslim or even associates with the Islamic community. Just because Fox news says it, doesn't mean it's true.

America will elect a black/woman this election. I guarantee it.

What exactly has Obama or Hilary done? Obama has been a Senator for 2 years and has spent the whole time campaigning to be president, not addressing issues.

Hilary is not at all qualified.

Edwards is merely throwing his name in the hat and dividing the party.

Sorry, but a dem isn't going to win.

Not that Guiliani is any better in terms of qualifications, but you've got the christians who are going to vote for him. Plus he will win New York despite being Republican. That will be a critical loss to the Dems.

Once again, you are talking out of your ass. Do you ever think before you post?

Obama: What has he ever done? Is that really a relevant question. This country elected Bush who accomplished considerably less than Obama. Governor of Texas, that is it. And, Texas gives their governor the least amount of power of almost all governorships.

Hilary: Not qualified. Wow, your opinion is gospel? Again, her qualifications are equal to, if not better than Bush's. She has spent 10 plus years in Washington. As first lady she definitely was involved, not like Laura Bush or more traditional first ladies. Didn't we all hear the constant complaints that bill was elected not her.

If Hillary isn't qualified, then the Republicans should just concede the election as Rudy has NO qualifications, Romney isn't qualified, etc.

Edwards: How can running for the nomination divide the party. You run, you continue to run or drop out. You go the national convention and either get the nomination or you don't. The party then rallies around the nomination. If Edwards chose to run as an independent after someone else received the nomination then he would be dividing the party.

[the_idle_threat]

Never quite understood that whole transgender dealio.


















:lol:


I was thinking the same thing ... :lol:

But they do say the tallest candidate usually has an advantage in an election. :o

[BallHawk]

Obama has been a Senator for 2 years and has spent the whole time campaigning to be president, not addressing issues.

Not really. He intended to finish his work in the senate and then run in 2012. However, with all the hype surrounding him, he made the smart deceision and ran now.

So the whole "He hasn't done jack, besides campaigning" shtick isn't really that accurate.

[Partial]

Obama has been a Senator for 2 years and has spent the whole time campaigning to be president, not addressing issues.

Not really. He intended to finish his work in the senate and then run in 2012. However, with all the hype surrounding him, he made the smart deceision and ran now.

So the whole "He hasn't done jack, besides campaigning" shtick isn't really that accurate.

I refuse to address Tyrone since he is a troll and nothing more.

What has he done?!??!? How has he made Illinois a better place to live??!???!?

He hasn't done jack. He talks a good game. I can think of another guy who did that that ended up impeacher and didn't do a lot for our country.

He isn't going to win. And good riddance for that. We need another strong GOP candidate. Just not Bush and Cheney and the Haliburton fun that comes along with them.

[the_idle_threat]

Obama has been a Senator for 2 years and has spent the whole time campaigning to be president, not addressing issues.

Not really. He intended to finish his work in the senate and then run in 2012. However, with all the hype surrounding him, he made the smart deceision and ran now.

So the whole "He hasn't done jack, besides campaigning" shtick isn't really that accurate.

Sounds like it's kind of accurate based upon your own statement above, BH. He intended to finish his "work" in the Senate, but was interrupted by his calling to be president. It's not like he was in the Senate very long and can point to a long list of accomplishments there.

And in any case, Senatorial experience doesn't translate very well to the executive office. Sure, he can act as part of a 100-member body, but how is he as a leader? It's a huge question mark. Perhaps this is one reason why ex-Senators aren't often elected to the chief executive office. Hasn't the Democratic party learned anything from the past two presidential elections???

[Partial]

Obama has been a Senator for 2 years and has spent the whole time campaigning to be president, not addressing issues.

Not really. He intended to finish his work in the senate and then run in 2012. However, with all the hype surrounding him, he made the smart deceision and ran now.

So the whole "He hasn't done jack, besides campaigning" shtick isn't really that accurate.

Sounds like it's kind of accurate based upon your own statement above, BH. He intended to finish his "work" in the Senate, but was interrupted by his calling to be president. It's not like he was in the Senate very long and can point to a long list of accomplishments there.

And in any case, Senatorial experience doesn't translate very well to the executive office. Sure, he can act as part of a 100-member body, but how is he as a leader? It's a huge question mark. Perhaps this is one reason why ex-Senators aren't often elected to the chief executive office. Hasn't the Democratic party learned anything from the past two presidential elections???

ding ding ding ding.

That's why Governor Bush is president, Governor Clinton was president, and why Senator Kerry was not ever the president.

Fred Thompson has a decent shot but Guiliani is going to win New York which would be absolutely huge for the GOP.

[LL2]

I used to really follow politics but haven't for some years now. I don't want to see Obama or Hillary elected, but not sure if I want Guliani or Romney either. If I had to choose right now the lesser of the evils would be Guliani or Romney. The far liberal socialize everything bent of Obama and Hillary scare me.

Maybe Merlin, who seems to follow politics, can throw in his two cents.

[Jimx29]

Never quite understood that whole transgender dealio.


















:lol:


I was thinking the same thing ... :lol:

But they do say the tallest candidate usually has an advantage in an election. :oglad i'm not the only one that has thoughts like that :D

[Cheesehead Craig]

My opinion is this:

A Senator is very very unlikely to win the Presidency, the last one was Kennedy over 40 yrs ago. Why? His/her voting record comes under constant scrutiny and attack. The longer a person is a Senator, the less likely they can be voted in.

A Governor is much more likely to make it as president as their job is essentially a training ground for the job. They have to deal with the legislative and judicial bodies on laws, budgets and initiatives. They also do some direct, limited dealings with foreign countries. Just like the president, but only on a smaller scale.

As much as I like Obama, I don't think he'll beat Hillary, but then who gave Jesse Ventura a chance? Assuming Hillary makes it, she's too divisive of a candidate. You either love her or hate her. If she has to go toe to toe with Guiliani, I don't think she can win as Rudy has charisma and likeability in spades and he'll just need to keep hammering home that he got NYC through 9/11 and he'll get the votes, even if some are out of sympathy over what happened.

Again, just my opinion.

[MJZiggy]

Only thing is, I hear Giulliani's wife is a real piece of work and could be a serious PR problem for him.

[BallHawk]

Only thing is, I hear Giulliani's wife is a real piece of work and could be a serious PR problem for him.

He could just divorce her. I think he's knows his way around divorce laws in the state of New York. :wink:

[lonely t-set]

Never quite understood that whole transgender dealio.


















:lol:


I was thinking the same thing ... :lol:

But they do say the tallest candidate usually has an advantage in an election. :o

sounds like you have a crush. :?:

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Obama has been a Senator for 2 years and has spent the whole time campaigning to be president, not addressing issues.

Not really. He intended to finish his work in the senate and then run in 2012. However, with all the hype surrounding him, he made the smart deceision and ran now.

So the whole "He hasn't done jack, besides campaigning" shtick isn't really that accurate.

I refuse to address Tyrone since he is a troll and nothing more.

What has he done?!??!? How has he made Illinois a better place to live??!???!?

He hasn't done jack. He talks a good game. I can think of another guy who did that that ended up impeacher and didn't do a lot for our country.

He isn't going to win. And good riddance for that. We need another strong GOP candidate. Just not Bush and Cheney and the Haliburton fun that comes along with them.

I'm far from a troll.

You are just an idiot who makes ridiculous statements. That is why you don't respond. Backbone of the internet..refuted.

Better place: Um, sorry, the nature of the senate isn't about making your home state better..unless you are now complaining that he hasn't gotten enough pork.

Impeacher: um, are you referring to Nixon. That is the only president impeached. yea, it would suck to have another clinton in office..good employment, surging economy, not despised by the rest of the world, etc.

[MJZiggy]

You forgot the budget surplus. What did Bush spend that on again?

[Tyrone Bigguns]

My opinion is this:

A Senator is very very unlikely to win the Presidency, the last one was Kennedy over 40 yrs ago. Why? His/her voting record comes under constant scrutiny and attack. The longer a person is a Senator, the less likely they can be voted in.

A Governor is much more likely to make it as president as their job is essentially a training ground for the job. They have to deal with the legislative and judicial bodies on laws, budgets and initiatives. They also do some direct, limited dealings with foreign countries. Just like the president, but only on a smaller scale.

As much as I like Obama, I don't think he'll beat Hillary, but then who gave Jesse Ventura a chance? Assuming Hillary makes it, she's too divisive of a candidate. You either love her or hate her. If she has to go toe to toe with Guiliani, I don't think she can win as Rudy has charisma and likeability in spades and he'll just need to keep hammering home that he got NYC through 9/11 and he'll get the votes, even if some are out of sympathy over what happened.

Again, just my opinion.

Giuliani likeable. Oh, lord, please stop making me laugh.

Do you really know anything about him. He is far from likable. Perhaps you should ask those from NYC about him. His career was over before 9/11.

[Freak Out]

My opinion is this:

A Senator is very very unlikely to win the Presidency, the last one was Kennedy over 40 yrs ago. Why? His/her voting record comes under constant scrutiny and attack. The longer a person is a Senator, the less likely they can be voted in.

A Governor is much more likely to make it as president as their job is essentially a training ground for the job. They have to deal with the legislative and judicial bodies on laws, budgets and initiatives. They also do some direct, limited dealings with foreign countries. Just like the president, but only on a smaller scale.

As much as I like Obama, I don't think he'll beat Hillary, but then who gave Jesse Ventura a chance? Assuming Hillary makes it, she's too divisive of a candidate. You either love her or hate her. If she has to go toe to toe with Guiliani, I don't think she can win as Rudy has charisma and likeability in spades and he'll just need to keep hammering home that he got NYC through 9/11 and he'll get the votes, even if some are out of sympathy over what happened.

Again, just my opinion.

Giuliani likeable. Oh, lord, please stop making me laugh.

Do you really know anything about him. He is far from likable. Perhaps you should ask those from NYC about him. His career was over before 9/11.

I think Dubya is a simpleton and a complete failure and still think Rudy would be worse. Well....maybe not worse.

[Partial]

Obama has been a Senator for 2 years and has spent the whole time campaigning to be president, not addressing issues.

Not really. He intended to finish his work in the senate and then run in 2012. However, with all the hype surrounding him, he made the smart deceision and ran now.

So the whole "He hasn't done jack, besides campaigning" shtick isn't really that accurate.

I refuse to address Tyrone since he is a troll and nothing more.

What has he done?!??!? How has he made Illinois a better place to live??!???!?

He hasn't done jack. He talks a good game. I can think of another guy who did that that ended up impeacher and didn't do a lot for our country.

He isn't going to win. And good riddance for that. We need another strong GOP candidate. Just not Bush and Cheney and the Haliburton fun that comes along with them.

I'm far from a troll.

You are just an idiot who makes ridiculous statements. That is why you don't respond. Backbone of the internet..refuted.

Better place: Um, sorry, the nature of the senate isn't about making your home state better..unless you are now complaining that he hasn't gotten enough pork.

Impeacher: um, are you referring to Nixon. That is the only president impeached. yea, it would suck to have another clinton in office..good employment, surging economy, not despised by the rest of the world, etc.

I am an idiot? Exactly what have you done in this world? What is your career and qualifications? What has the baggins family historically done? My thoughts are you are a pompass ass who is still riding the "I went to Madison" pretentious asshole syndrome while finally reaching middle-management at your company around 35. Now that you're in your late 30's my guess is you're bitter because you've come to realize you don't have any real skills and like to nitpick on facts in online chat forums where you can anonymously be "the man" that you can't be in the real world.

You should really look into the back bone of the internet because I can verify my claims but would rather you learn something on your own instead of regurgitating the facts you'll learn from the first page of a poorly worded google search. It is something like 30% connects directly through AT&T and another large portion connects indirectly through AT&T.

Obama hasn't done anything because since being elected he has had his eyes set on bigger things. What has he done!?!? I have asked 3-4 times in this thread now and not a single person has provided an explanation. The reason for this is he hasn't done anything. He's all talk and no walk. Exactly what this country does not need.

Actually, since you like to nitpick, you should go get your facts straight because Nixon was not impeached. He resigned prior to the inevitable impeachment. Clinton on the other hand was impeached by the house, as I correctly stated. Zoom zoom zoom.

And as far as Guiliani being likable, why did he have a 92% approval rating on October 2nd of 2001? Or how about winning the election in 1997 by a margin of 18%? Seems fairly popular to me.

On that note, please stop addressing me troll. I don't like wasting my time dealing with Jackasses. You make Merlin look like a phD candidate!

[Freak Out]

A. Johnson and Clinton were the only Presidents impeached by the house. Nixon resigned before he could be......arguably Johnson and Clinton were impeached for political reasons not high crimes..as far as I remember Clinton never lied under oath.

[BallHawk]

And as far as Guiliani being likable, why did he have a 92% approval rating on October 2nd of 2001?

Why the f*ck do you think? Because NY had been struck by a terrorist attack and he was the knight in shining armor.

For the last 6 goddamn years that's all he's been about, September of 2001.

[Joemailman]

Obama has been a Senator for 2 years and has spent the whole time campaigning to be president, not addressing issues.

Not really. He intended to finish his work in the senate and then run in 2012. However, with all the hype surrounding him, he made the smart deceision and ran now.

So the whole "He hasn't done jack, besides campaigning" shtick isn't really that accurate.

Sounds like it's kind of accurate based upon your own statement above, BH. He intended to finish his "work" in the Senate, but was interrupted by his calling to be president. It's not like he was in the Senate very long and can point to a long list of accomplishments there.

And in any case, Senatorial experience doesn't translate very well to the executive office. Sure, he can act as part of a 100-member body, but how is he as a leader? It's a huge question mark. Perhaps this is one reason why ex-Senators aren't often elected to the chief executive office. Hasn't the Democratic party learned anything from the past two presidential elections???

ding ding ding ding.

That's why Governor Bush is president, Governor Clinton was president, and why Senator Kerry was not ever the president.

Fred Thompson has a decent shot but Guiliani is going to win New York which would be absolutely huge for the GOP.

Giuliani will not win New York. People tend to forget how unpopular he was before 9/11. Try as he might, he won't be able to ride 9/11 to victory. If he somehow wins the Republication nomination (which he won't), the scrutiny will kill him. He's got more skeletons in the closet than Dahmer. I suspect the race will be Obama vs. Romney. People are fed up with Washington, and neither of these guys are considered to be Washington insiders.

[Scott Campbell]

I suspect the race will be Obama vs. Romney. People are fed up with Washington, and neither of these guys are considered to be Washington insiders.


I sure hope you are right. I can live with either of those guys.

[Partial]

And as far as Guiliani being likable, why did he have a 92% approval rating on October 2nd of 2001?

Why the f*ck do you think? Because NY had been struck by a terrorist attack and he was the knight in shining armor.

For the last 6 goddamn years that's all he's been about, September of 2001.

I would hope so considering he hasn't been in office in 6 years.

Talk about an outburst.

[falco]

And as far as Guiliani being likable, why did he have a 92% approval rating on October 2nd of 2001?

Why the f*ck do you think? Because NY had been struck by a terrorist attack and he was the knight in shining armor.

For the last 6 goddamn years that's all he's been about, September of 2001.

I would hope so considering he hasn't been in office in 6 years.

Talk about an outburst.

Partial, I'm still trying to figure how you were going to get away with calling Obama a Muslim? Maybe you shouldn't read everything you get in your junk email.

[falco]

Obama has been a Senator for 2 years and has spent the whole time campaigning to be president, not addressing issues.

Not really. He intended to finish his work in the senate and then run in 2012. However, with all the hype surrounding him, he made the smart deceision and ran now.

So the whole "He hasn't done jack, besides campaigning" shtick isn't really that accurate.

I refuse to address Tyrone since he is a troll and nothing more.

What has he done?!??!? How has he made Illinois a better place to live??!???!?

He hasn't done jack. He talks a good game. I can think of another guy who did that that ended up impeacher and didn't do a lot for our country.

He isn't going to win. And good riddance for that. We need another strong GOP candidate. Just not Bush and Cheney and the Haliburton fun that comes along with them.

I'm far from a troll.

You are just an idiot who makes ridiculous statements. That is why you don't respond. Backbone of the internet..refuted.

Better place: Um, sorry, the nature of the senate isn't about making your home state better..unless you are now complaining that he hasn't gotten enough pork.

Impeacher: um, are you referring to Nixon. That is the only president impeached. yea, it would suck to have another clinton in office..good employment, surging economy, not despised by the rest of the world, etc.

Tyrone, Nixon resigned, he was never impeached (although he most likely would have been). Clinton was impeached.

[Partial]

And as far as Guiliani being likable, why did he have a 92% approval rating on October 2nd of 2001?

Why the f*ck do you think? Because NY had been struck by a terrorist attack and he was the knight in shining armor.

For the last 6 goddamn years that's all he's been about, September of 2001.

I would hope so considering he hasn't been in office in 6 years.

Talk about an outburst.

Partial, I'm still trying to figure how you were going to get away with calling Obama a Muslim? Maybe you shouldn't read everything you get in your junk email.

I don't read junk mail and have no idea if he is a muslim or not. I made the assumption based on his name. Barack Hussein Obama is very middle-eastern sounding.

[falco]

Giuliani will not win New York. People tend to forget how unpopular he was before 9/11. Try as he might, he won't be able to ride 9/11 to victory. If he somehow wins the Republication nomination (which he won't), the scrutiny will kill him. He's got more skeletons in the closet than Dahmer. I suspect the race will be Obama vs. Romney. People are fed up with Washington, and neither of these guys are considered to be Washington insiders.

Joe, I agree with you. If he does somehow get the nod, its going to be open season on his record. His role post-9/11 made a lot of people forget about his past.

[MJZiggy]

And as far as Guiliani being likable, why did he have a 92% approval rating on October 2nd of 2001?

Why the f*ck do you think? Because NY had been struck by a terrorist attack and he was the knight in shining armor.

For the last 6 goddamn years that's all he's been about, September of 2001.

I would hope so considering he hasn't been in office in 6 years.

Talk about an outburst.

Partial, I'm still trying to figure how you were going to get away with calling Obama a Muslim? Maybe you shouldn't read everything you get in your junk email.

I don't read junk mail and have no idea if he is a muslim or not. I made the assumption based on his name. Barack Hussein Obama is very middle-eastern sounding.

Then maybe you should find out for sure before spouting. The name, along with its owner, are African.

[falco]

And as far as Guiliani being likable, why did he have a 92% approval rating on October 2nd of 2001?

Why the f*ck do you think? Because NY had been struck by a terrorist attack and he was the knight in shining armor.

For the last 6 goddamn years that's all he's been about, September of 2001.

I would hope so considering he hasn't been in office in 6 years.

Talk about an outburst.

Partial, I'm still trying to figure how you were going to get away with calling Obama a Muslim? Maybe you shouldn't read everything you get in your junk email.

I don't read junk mail and have no idea if he is a muslim or not. I made the assumption based on his name. Barack Hussein Obama is very middle-eastern sounding.

Then maybe you should find out for sure before spouting. The name, along with its owner, are African.

Ziggy, maybe partial already knew that, and he just assumed all Africans are Muslims, like all Middle Easterns.

[BallHawk]

I made the assumption based on his name.

You and the other half of America. :roll:

[Partial]

I made the assumption based on his name.

You and the other half of America. :roll:

That doesn't really make any sense at all. I am going to let you take a moment and think about that :P . Sounds like something my dad would use in an argument.




But really, who cares where he is from? He is still black and based on my limited life experiences and what I now of the 50 something age group he doesn't have an ice cubes chance in hell of winning.

[Partial]

Giuliani will not win New York. People tend to forget how unpopular he was before 9/11. Try as he might, he won't be able to ride 9/11 to victory. If he somehow wins the Republication nomination (which he won't), the scrutiny will kill him. He's got more skeletons in the closet than Dahmer. I suspect the race will be Obama vs. Romney. People are fed up with Washington, and neither of these guys are considered to be Washington insiders.

Joe, I agree with you. If he does somehow get the nod, its going to be open season on his record. His role post-9/11 made a lot of people forget about his past.

He won two elections and went out on a high note. He'll win New York because he is relatively moderate and has the name recognition after the disaster. I would bet the farm on it.

[falco]

Giuliani will not win New York. People tend to forget how unpopular he was before 9/11. Try as he might, he won't be able to ride 9/11 to victory. If he somehow wins the Republication nomination (which he won't), the scrutiny will kill him. He's got more skeletons in the closet than Dahmer. I suspect the race will be Obama vs. Romney. People are fed up with Washington, and neither of these guys are considered to be Washington insiders.

Joe, I agree with you. If he does somehow get the nod, its going to be open season on his record. His role post-9/11 made a lot of people forget about his past.

He won two elections and went out on a high note. He'll win New York because he is relatively moderate and has the name recognition after the disaster. I would bet the farm on it.

Too bad you already lost the farm when you bet Obama was a Muslim.

Keep trying partial, you'll get there someday. In the meantime, maybe you should go back to arguing with Tyrone.

[Partial]

I said he was a black/muslim meaning I was unable to distinguish what he was without doing my homework. Never did I make any statement towards him being muslim. What the hell?

[BallHawk]

But really, who cares where he is from? He is still black and based on my limited life experiences and what I now of the 50 something age group he doesn't have an ice cubes chance in hell of winning.

Why do so many people think they know who America is going to vote for? There's polls showing that people are willing to vote for Obama, but they think that the rest of America won't. It's in everybody's mind.

We don't live in the Jim Crow South anymore, Partial. Our country is not perfect on the issue of race, but America is ready to elect a black president. Without a doubt, they are ready to put an African-American in the White House.

And to those who say that Hillary is going to win because she is ahead in the polls, I have two words for them: Bradley Effect

[Partial]

But really, who cares where he is from? He is still black and based on my limited life experiences and what I now of the 50 something age group he doesn't have an ice cubes chance in hell of winning.

Why do so many people think they know who America is going to vote for? There's polls showing that people are willing to vote for Obama, but they think that the rest of America won't. It's in everybody's mind.

We don't live in the Jim Crow South anymore, Partial. Our country is not perfect on the issue of race, but America is ready to elect a black president. Without a doubt, they are ready to put an African-American in the White House.

And to those who say that Hillary is going to win because she is ahead in the polls, I have two words for them: Bradley Effect

Yeah ok. If America wants a dead president they'll put a black one in the white house.

You just don't get it. The 18-30 demographic is the one that doesn't show up to polls, where as the 40-death crowd does not take this for granted and makes their voice heard loud and clear. This is a good thing, though, because I don't think very many people in the younger age group are mature enough to make a proper decision rather than just going with whatever is popular with their friends and peers.

I don't think you can tell me that half the people you know over 60 are not racist (not even a little teenie bit) and be truthful and confident in making that statement.

I don't consider myself a racist person so I hope it isn't coming off as such. I am a realistic person, though.

It is still about 20-30 years away from happening. Hilary has 3x the chance as Obama.

[BallHawk]

Do I know 60 year olds that are racist? Sure. Who doesn't? However, I know a good amount that aren't.

65% of America said that if a candidate shared the values that they did and happened to be black, they would vote for him.

America is ready.

Also, Obama has Oprah supporting him. Do not underestimate that. Oprah is the most influential woman in the world. She has plenty of viewers with no opinion of their own and if Oprah tells them to do something, they will do it.

[Joemailman]

But really, who cares where he is from? He is still black and based on my limited life experiences and what I now of the 50 something age group he doesn't have an ice cubes chance in hell of winning.

Why do so many people think they know who America is going to vote for? There's polls showing that people are willing to vote for Obama, but they think that the rest of America won't. It's in everybody's mind.

We don't live in the Jim Crow South anymore, Partial. Our country is not perfect on the issue of race, but America is ready to elect a black president. Without a doubt, they are ready to put an African-American in the White House.

And to those who say that Hillary is going to win because she is ahead in the polls, I have two words for them: Bradley Effect

Yeah ok. If America wants a dead president they'll put a black one in the white house.

You just don't get it. The 18-30 demographic is the one that doesn't show up to polls, where as the 40-death crowd does not take this for granted and makes their voice heard loud and clear. This is a good thing, though, because I don't think very many people in the younger age group are mature enough to make a proper decision rather than just going with whatever is popular with their friends and peers.

I don't think you can tell me that half the people you know over 60 are not racist (not even a little teenie bit) and be truthful and confident in making that statement.

I don't consider myself a racist person so I hope it isn't coming off as such. I am a realistic person, though.

It is still about 20-30 years away from happening. Hilary has 3x the chance as Obama.

You should study your history Partial. The people who pushed through the Civil Rights Act and the Voting Rights Act are in the 60+ age group. The vast majority of Americans moved past racism long ago. That is not to say that everything is perfect. What makes Obama unique though is that although he is black, he does not polarize issues along racial lines like Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton. Obama is an incredibly gifted speaker who may well be able to overcome the stereotypes some still have about black people. If Obama gets the nomination, I suspect that those who would vote against him because he is black will be more than offset by those who have tired of the white male domination of the Presidency.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Personally, I don't get the lovefest for Obama. Then again, I think he's the best candidate the Democrats have.

[falco]

Personally, I don't get the lovefest for Obama. Then again, I think he's the best candidate the Democrats have.

Yawn...

[HarveyWallbangers]

Stealing my material now, huh?
:five:

[falco]

Stealing my material now, huh?
:five:

Alls fair in politics!

[Joemailman]

Personally, I don't get the lovefest for Obama. Then again, I think he's the best candidate the Democrats have.

I'm not completely sold on him either. I think he's a really good speaker who can connect with a crowd. I'm just not sure how much is image and how much is substance.

[digitaldean]

Personally, I don't get the lovefest for Obama. Then again, I think he's the best candidate the Democrats have.

I'm not completely sold on him either. I think he's a really good speaker who can connect with a crowd. I'm just not sure how much is image and how much is substance.

I do think Obama has more substance than Edwards. That guy is a pure phony.

A new face that doesn't have as much political baggage could make a move. That is where Obama could make some headway.

Hillary is SO polarizing, she could definitely get the nomination, but could be a liability in the general election.

[Cheesehead Craig]

My opinion is this:

A Senator is very very unlikely to win the Presidency, the last one was Kennedy over 40 yrs ago. Why? His/her voting record comes under constant scrutiny and attack. The longer a person is a Senator, the less likely they can be voted in.

A Governor is much more likely to make it as president as their job is essentially a training ground for the job. They have to deal with the legislative and judicial bodies on laws, budgets and initiatives. They also do some direct, limited dealings with foreign countries. Just like the president, but only on a smaller scale.

As much as I like Obama, I don't think he'll beat Hillary, but then who gave Jesse Ventura a chance? Assuming Hillary makes it, she's too divisive of a candidate. You either love her or hate her. If she has to go toe to toe with Guiliani, I don't think she can win as Rudy has charisma and likeability in spades and he'll just need to keep hammering home that he got NYC through 9/11 and he'll get the votes, even if some are out of sympathy over what happened.

Again, just my opinion.

Giuliani likeable. Oh, lord, please stop making me laugh.

Do you really know anything about him. He is far from likable. Perhaps you should ask those from NYC about him. His career was over before 9/11.
My point about Guiliani and Hillary was that Hillary cannot beat an opponent with charisma who also has a solid background in politics. Guiliani has charisma and is a likeable guy and was an example. I should have been clearer on that.

Rudy is apparently dropping in the polls as is McCain with Romney gaining ground. But how will Romney's religious beliefs (Morman) play out with the Republican party faithful?

[Scott Campbell]

I don't think you can tell me that half the people you know over 60 are not racist (not even a little teenie bit) and be truthful and confident in making that statement.



I think making statements like the one above based on age is every bit as discriminatory as making racist statements.

[Scott Campbell]

But how will Romney's religious beliefs (Morman) play out with the Republican party faithful?


I am not Mormon. I do live in Utah. I've lived a lot of other places, and I've never seen religion mixed with politics they way they do it here. Not even close. It's unbelievable.

But I'd bet that Romney's religious beliefs would play far less a role in his administration than what's going on in the current administration. Romney is not from Utah, and is different from Utah Mormons. There is a huge difference. Living out of state, he is used to being a religious minority, and he knows he can't shove his beliefs down everyone's throats - the way they do here in Utah. It might be a different story with Orrin Hatch. But I'm not worried about Romney. At least not when it comes to his religion.

[Scott Campbell]

I do think Obama has more substance than Edwards. That guy is a pure phony.


IMO, John Edwards respresents everything that is wrong with the Democratic party. I wanted to not vote for Bush in this last election. I had resigned myself to voting for a Democratic president for the first time in my life.

And then I watch this guy. His 2 America's rhetoric was a classic divide and conquer strategy. His tactics were to try and create a class warfare, and pander to the poor by blaming anyone with a "swimming pool" for their troubles. His target demographic is anyone looking to blame "rich fuckers" and "corporate greed" for their lot in life. And when you think about what he did for a living prior to public office, it makes sense. Personal injury attorney's make a lot of money if they're able to blame people with money for stuff that sometimes just happens. Find deep pockets. Make them look bad. And then bank the 30% of the punative damages. He runs for office the same way.

I wasn't wild about Kerry, and when he picked Edwards as his running mate, that was the last straw. I reluctantly voted for Bush.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Obama has been a Senator for 2 years and has spent the whole time campaigning to be president, not addressing issues.

Not really. He intended to finish his work in the senate and then run in 2012. However, with all the hype surrounding him, he made the smart deceision and ran now.

So the whole "He hasn't done jack, besides campaigning" shtick isn't really that accurate.

I refuse to address Tyrone since he is a troll and nothing more.

What has he done?!??!? How has he made Illinois a better place to live??!???!?

He hasn't done jack. He talks a good game. I can think of another guy who did that that ended up impeacher and didn't do a lot for our country.

He isn't going to win. And good riddance for that. We need another strong GOP candidate. Just not Bush and Cheney and the Haliburton fun that comes along with them.

I'm far from a troll.

You are just an idiot who makes ridiculous statements. That is why you don't respond. Backbone of the internet..refuted.

Better place: Um, sorry, the nature of the senate isn't about making your home state better..unless you are now complaining that he hasn't gotten enough pork.

Impeacher: um, are you referring to Nixon. That is the only president impeached. yea, it would suck to have another clinton in office..good employment, surging economy, not despised by the rest of the world, etc.

Tyrone, Nixon resigned, he was never impeached (although he most likely would have been). Clinton was impeached.

True. My fault. Though, Clinton wasn't impeached, he was acquitted by the senate.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Giuliani will not win New York. People tend to forget how unpopular he was before 9/11. Try as he might, he won't be able to ride 9/11 to victory. If he somehow wins the Republication nomination (which he won't), the scrutiny will kill him. He's got more skeletons in the closet than Dahmer. I suspect the race will be Obama vs. Romney. People are fed up with Washington, and neither of these guys are considered to be Washington insiders.

Joe, I agree with you. If he does somehow get the nod, its going to be open season on his record. His role post-9/11 made a lot of people forget about his past.

He won two elections and went out on a high note. He'll win New York because he is relatively moderate and has the name recognition after the disaster. I would bet the farm on it.

Too bad you already lost the farm when you bet Obama was a Muslim.

Keep trying partial, you'll get there someday. In the meantime, maybe you should go back to arguing with Tyrone.

He can't argue with me. In order to do that you would actually have to present some logic and facts.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Do I know 60 year olds that are racist? Sure. Who doesn't? However, I know a good amount that aren't.

65% of America said that if a candidate shared the values that they did and happened to be black, they would vote for him.

America is ready.

Also, Obama has Oprah supporting him. Do not underestimate that. Oprah is the most influential woman in the world. She has plenty of viewers with no opinion of their own and if Oprah tells them to do something, they will do it.

Partail conflates racism with prejudice. Most people are prejudiced, but not racist.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

My opinion is this:

A Senator is very very unlikely to win the Presidency, the last one was Kennedy over 40 yrs ago. Why? His/her voting record comes under constant scrutiny and attack. The longer a person is a Senator, the less likely they can be voted in.

A Governor is much more likely to make it as president as their job is essentially a training ground for the job. They have to deal with the legislative and judicial bodies on laws, budgets and initiatives. They also do some direct, limited dealings with foreign countries. Just like the president, but only on a smaller scale.

As much as I like Obama, I don't think he'll beat Hillary, but then who gave Jesse Ventura a chance? Assuming Hillary makes it, she's too divisive of a candidate. You either love her or hate her. If she has to go toe to toe with Guiliani, I don't think she can win as Rudy has charisma and likeability in spades and he'll just need to keep hammering home that he got NYC through 9/11 and he'll get the votes, even if some are out of sympathy over what happened.

Again, just my opinion.

Giuliani likeable. Oh, lord, please stop making me laugh.

Do you really know anything about him. He is far from likable. Perhaps you should ask those from NYC about him. His career was over before 9/11.
My point about Guiliani and Hillary was that Hillary cannot beat an opponent with charisma who also has a solid background in politics. Guiliani has charisma and is a likeable guy and was an example. I should have been clearer on that.

Rudy is apparently dropping in the polls as is McCain with Romney gaining ground. But how will Romney's religious beliefs (Morman) play out with the Republican party faithful?

Again, Rudy isn't likable. Go back and do some research. He is not liked by those in NYC for the most part. They do appreciate his accomplishments, but there was never a lovefest for him.

Romney: It won't matter, as with Rudy. The hard core conserv/religious right aren't jumping on the train. Rudy is multi divorced, cheated on his wives, etc.

[hoosier]

[True. My fault. Though, Clinton wasn't impeached, he was acquitted by the senate.

Impeached doesn't mean convicted, it just means tried. One can be impeached and acquitted.

[Scott Campbell]

Though, Clinton wasn't impeached, he was acquitted by the senate.


Partial's statement may have been incomplete, but your statement is factually incorrect. Bill Clinton was impeached. By the House. He was later Acquitted by the Senate.

[Cheesehead Craig]

Again, Rudy isn't likable. Go back and do some research. He is not liked by those in NYC for the most part. They do appreciate his accomplishments, but there was never a lovefest for him.

Romney: It won't matter, as with Rudy. The hard core conserv/religious right aren't jumping on the train. Rudy is multi divorced, cheated on his wives, etc.
Then how is Rudy leading the GOP Presidential nominee race if he's not likable?

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/us/republican_presidential_nomination-192.html

You don't get a 9% + point lead if you are not likable. He's not just running in NYC. It's his national appeal. Most people only know him from how he acted in and is portrayed after 9/11 which was extremely favorable.

I did my research to show he is currently likable. Now you go do some research to show me he's not liked nationwide.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Again, Rudy isn't likable. Go back and do some research. He is not liked by those in NYC for the most part. They do appreciate his accomplishments, but there was never a lovefest for him.

Romney: It won't matter, as with Rudy. The hard core conserv/religious right aren't jumping on the train. Rudy is multi divorced, cheated on his wives, etc.
Then how is Rudy leading the GOP Presidential nominee race if he's not likable?

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/us/republican_presidential_nomination-192.html

You don't get a 9% + point lead if you are not likable. He's not just running in NYC. It's his national appeal. Most people only know him from how he acted in and is portrayed after 9/11 which was extremely favorable.

I did my research to show he is currently likable. Now you go do some research to show me he's not liked nationwide.

Really? You get a lead because you are running for the nomination and there isn't anyone better. Ever heard of the "lesser of 2 evils."

He also has a lead because he is known. He has had a platform since 9/11. I don't think 15% of the country even knew who romney was prior to announcing.

Lastly, he has a lead because of 9/11. He is perceived as a strong leader. Strong leaders don't necessarily have to be liked. Why don't you read The Prince by Machiavelli and get back to me. It is great to be loved, but if the choice comes down, better to be feared and respected.

Giuliani's main claim to fame is his conduct immediately after 9/11. Many still remember his TV press conference the night of the attacks, when a reporter asked how many casualties there would be. Giuliani had a magnificent answer: "More than we can bear." Compared to what President Bush was saying, that was Shakespeare.

Likable: Ok. You think women and christian conservatives are going to like the fact he has cheated on 2 wives and been divorced. That ain't likable.

His current wife is despised. Candidates are judged by their mate. Look at how the media and critics savaged Teresa Heinz Kerry.

It is still very early and most of the stuff hasn't come out, or been exploited yet.

1. Family issues. His own son isn't supporting him. Hard to win when your family is divided. He treated Hanover like dirt and his children won't help. Caroline has already pledged support to Obama.
2. Association with Bernard Kerik.
3. Business. He has made alot of cash off 9/11. You think the attacks on Edwards as a money grubbing attn were something, wait until the media gets after that. And, all the perks he demands for himself and Judith.
4. Loyalty to raping priest. 'nuff said
5. Liberal voting record, pro choice. Why don't you ask skeletal ann coulter about his record on: supporting abortion, pro gay marriage, opposing welfare reform, and opposing clinton impeachment, etc.
6. Temper.
7. IN favor of gun control. He has a legendary temper, is a bully, and doesn't like to be challenged. Good luck with that Rudy.

"He is not understood outside of New York City," said Ed Koch, the former mayor who evolved from a Giuliani supporter to critic. "He is quite correctly accorded great acclaim for his response to 9/11. Nobody could have done it better. (But) I don't believe he could have been elected dog catcher on 9/10."

Giuliani's popularity soared in the aftermath of the attacks. Now his hometown is divided, with 40 percent of people viewing him favorably and 51 percent unfavorably, a Siena Research Institute poll found in May (this was in 04)

"He's an explosive personality with a short temper and with little restraint. He attacks those who he feels are his enemies, and he sees a lot of enemies around him," Kirtzman said, author of "Rudy Giuliani: Emperor of the City." "It was often really harrowing to watch, but it was also extraordinarily effective."

He fought with: city officials including chief of police william bratton, his own party when he endorsed Democratic Gov. Mario Cuomo for re-election over Republican George Pataki, New York Magazine, which advertised itself as "possibly the only good thing in New York Rudy hasn't taken credit for." The mayor banned the ads from city buses, but the magazine sued and won.

And, what about being liked by minorities. Oops. Giuliani long refused to meet with the city's top black elected officials.

Can anyone say Amadou Diallo?

8. 9/11. Many feel Rudy exploited it for his own gain. Remember he tried extending his office term because of it, and tried putting judith in charge of dispensing funds to survivors.

Unions don't particularly like him. Witness the fireman's union.

“He’s not a leader,” said retired Deputy Chief Jim Riches, whose son was killed in the 2001 attack. “He’s running on 9/11, and it’s all a fallacy.”

Not to mention how they feel about the radio problems that he didn't solve after 93.

You clearly have no idea of what life for Rudy was prior to 9/11. He was not well liked by upstate republicans. He had to give up his senate run because of his messy divorce and prostate cancer.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Though, Clinton wasn't impeached, he was acquitted by the senate.


Partial's statement may have been incomplete, but your statement is factually incorrect. Bill Clinton was impeached. By the House. He was later Acquitted by the Senate.

You are of course correct. What i was trying to convey is that the process didn't go all the way thru.

1. Starts in house
2. before final vote, can vote to get judiciary comm to begin an impeachment inquiry
3.The Judiciary Committee may at this stage conduct hearings and draw up the articles of impeachment
4.Under the Constitution, the House must vote on articles of impeachment. A simple majority vote can impeach the president-"impeachment" is more of an indictment than a conviction- and send the case to the Senate for trial.
5. The Senate conducts the trial.

[Cheesehead Craig]

A very nice post Tyrone.

First off, I am not endorsing Rudy. Just want to clear that up.

You make my point as well. He's known and has a mystique about him in regards to 9/11. I cited that originally. But if he was such a hugely unlikable person as you make him out to be, he wouldn't be anywhere near the top of the polls.

Yes, we all read The Prince in college. Congratulations.

He's got way more personality than Hillary does, and there are loads of Americans who will simply vote on that alone. Prime example: See how our current president defeated Kerry and Gore.

Sure we look at the mate of the president. Is it an absolute make or break for the vast majority of the populous? Absolutely not. When it comes down to it, nobody cares.

1. Gee, a 17 yr old daughter rebelling? Stop the presses there.
2. So he worked with Kerik years ago. Big deal. Go around the streets of general America and ask 1000 people who he is. Doubt you'll find more than 3 and they may just vaguely remember his failed bid for Homeland Security.
3. There will be mud slinging from both sides on where $ came from. Nothing new here and again, people won't care as they will tune it out. Not like he made it using porn.
4. Loyalty to a childhood friend when he goes through a tough time is honorable. If nothing was yet proven in court, would you abandon a friend?
5. He doesn't simply adhere to the Republican stereo-typical mantra. That would gain liberal votes as he seems reasonable versus polarizing.
6. And?
7. Standard GOP pro-gun stance. Not sure how that's a detriment. When was your quote from if I may ask? Simply just want to get a frame of reference.
8. Prior to 9/11 is just about irrellivent now given it was 6 yrs ago as far as Rudy is concerned. It's conveniently forgotten about any issues he had. He can brush off any previous battles by now saying that after 9/11 he's realized how much working together means. He can milk it.

You're right. I didn't know Rudy prior to 9/11. I didn't live in NY and couldn't care what happened there on a daily governmental basis.


My whole point is this. The vast majority of knowledge that Americans have about Rudy is post 9/11. The hero. The leader. That's all they want to know. He's seen in a very positive light, hence his ratings as we both have agreed upon. He's got a lot of political capitol from that and in the last 6 years he's done no major gaffe to give the populous a different view.

His past is not so much of a big issue as you are portraying it I think. I certainly can appreciate your grasp of it and your "dislike" of him, to put it mildly. The general populous simply don't care about the past of many of our politicians (see Ted Kennedy) but they will still vote for him if he/she seems nice.

If GW can be elected twice with his embarrassment of a past and running primarily on some semblance of personality, Rudy can duplicate it as his past is not as bad and he has far more personality than GW does.

Fun discussion Tyrone. Thanks. This was definately educational.

[falco]

If GW can be elected twice with his embarrassment of a past and running primarily on some semblance of personality, Rudy can duplicate it as his past is not as bad and he has far more personality than GW does.

You make a good point.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

A very nice post Tyrone.

First off, I am not endorsing Rudy. Just want to clear that up.

You make my point as well. He's known and has a mystique about him in regards to 9/11. I cited that originally. But if he was such a hugely unlikable person as you make him out to be, he wouldn't be anywhere near the top of the polls.

Yes, we all read The Prince in college. Congratulations.

He's got way more personality than Hillary does, and there are loads of Americans who will simply vote on that alone. Prime example: See how our current president defeated Kerry and Gore.

Sure we look at the mate of the president. Is it an absolute make or break for the vast majority of the populous? Absolutely not. When it comes down to it, nobody cares.

1. Gee, a 17 yr old daughter rebelling? Stop the presses there.
2. So he worked with Kerik years ago. Big deal. Go around the streets of general America and ask 1000 people who he is. Doubt you'll find more than 3 and they may just vaguely remember his failed bid for Homeland Security.
3. There will be mud slinging from both sides on where $ came from. Nothing new here and again, people won't care as they will tune it out. Not like he made it using porn.
4. Loyalty to a childhood friend when he goes through a tough time is honorable. If nothing was yet proven in court, would you abandon a friend?
5. He doesn't simply adhere to the Republican stereo-typical mantra. That would gain liberal votes as he seems reasonable versus polarizing.
6. And?
7. Standard GOP pro-gun stance. Not sure how that's a detriment. When was your quote from if I may ask? Simply just want to get a frame of reference.
8. Prior to 9/11 is just about irrellivent now given it was 6 yrs ago as far as Rudy is concerned. It's conveniently forgotten about any issues he had. He can brush off any previous battles by now saying that after 9/11 he's realized how much working together means. He can milk it.

You're right. I didn't know Rudy prior to 9/11. I didn't live in NY and couldn't care what happened there on a daily governmental basis.


My whole point is this. The vast majority of knowledge that Americans have about Rudy is post 9/11. The hero. The leader. That's all they want to know. He's seen in a very positive light, hence his ratings as we both have agreed upon. He's got a lot of political capitol from that and in the last 6 years he's done no major gaffe to give the populous a different view.

His past is not so much of a big issue as you are portraying it I think. I certainly can appreciate your grasp of it and your "dislike" of him, to put it mildly. The general populous simply don't care about the past of many of our politicians (see Ted Kennedy) but they will still vote for him if he/she seems nice.

If GW can be elected twice with his embarrassment of a past and running primarily on some semblance of personality, Rudy can duplicate it as his past is not as bad and he has far more personality than GW does.

Fun discussion Tyrone. Thanks. This was definately educational.

I think if you stick to the point that he is seen in a positive light, then i agree. But, likable, no way.

More personality: I'm not sure I agree, and is that really a good thing?

As for me, don't confuse what i wrote for my opinion of the candidate.

Response:

1. More than daughter, his son at Duke as well. He treated Hanover terribly, and his children aren't happy about it, nor do they like Judith. I'm sorry, but a candidate in this country needs that family image..especially Reps.
2. Kerik. Associated with the mob. Not the failed bid.
3. No, i guess i would have to give better examples like the fact that he requires a private plane, Judith must accompany and have a seat next to him on any dais...and she requires a separate seat on the plane for her bag.
4. Um. When a grand jury accuses your friend of molestation and his diocese has suspended him, then i don't think you keep them on as a consultant. That isn't politically smart. What is most disturbing about this report is not the fact of abuse, but the utter failure of Guiliani to empathize with the victims of abuse. Basically, it reinforces the reality that Giuliani is a wheeler-dealer who plays fast and loose with the truth.
5. I see your point, but i think you dont' realize the liberals and dems aren't switching to vote repub. Maybe in the past, but no way for another Bush, which rudy is..with a lisp. His previous actions as mayor soured most libs.
6. Temper isn't usually found in likable people. Rudy is known for his temper and inability to get along. Bush maybe an idiot, but he is likable.
7.Rudy is for gun control (that isn't standard GOP), but only in urban areas. LOL He was in favor when he was mayor, getting handguns off the streets.
8. That may be true. Good point. I don't think it will work that way, but he could try to spin it. Unfortunately, he has many critics of his work in 9/11. Now that 9/11 isn't sacred and beyond criticism, we can plainly see the mistakes that were made. Hello, Ms. Whitman.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

A very nice post Tyrone.

First off, I am not endorsing Rudy. Just want to clear that up.

You make my point as well. He's known and has a mystique about him in regards to 9/11. I cited that originally. But if he was such a hugely unlikable person as you make him out to be, he wouldn't be anywhere near the top of the polls.

Yes, we all read The Prince in college. Congratulations.

He's got way more personality than Hillary does, and there are loads of Americans who will simply vote on that alone. Prime example: See how our current president defeated Kerry and Gore.

Sure we look at the mate of the president. Is it an absolute make or break for the vast majority of the populous? Absolutely not. When it comes down to it, nobody cares.

1. Gee, a 17 yr old daughter rebelling? Stop the presses there.
2. So he worked with Kerik years ago. Big deal. Go around the streets of general America and ask 1000 people who he is. Doubt you'll find more than 3 and they may just vaguely remember his failed bid for Homeland Security.
3. There will be mud slinging from both sides on where $ came from. Nothing new here and again, people won't care as they will tune it out. Not like he made it using porn.
4. Loyalty to a childhood friend when he goes through a tough time is honorable. If nothing was yet proven in court, would you abandon a friend?
5. He doesn't simply adhere to the Republican stereo-typical mantra. That would gain liberal votes as he seems reasonable versus polarizing.
6. And?
7. Standard GOP pro-gun stance. Not sure how that's a detriment. When was your quote from if I may ask? Simply just want to get a frame of reference.
8. Prior to 9/11 is just about irrellivent now given it was 6 yrs ago as far as Rudy is concerned. It's conveniently forgotten about any issues he had. He can brush off any previous battles by now saying that after 9/11 he's realized how much working together means. He can milk it.

You're right. I didn't know Rudy prior to 9/11. I didn't live in NY and couldn't care what happened there on a daily governmental basis.


My whole point is this. The vast majority of knowledge that Americans have about Rudy is post 9/11. The hero. The leader. That's all they want to know. He's seen in a very positive light, hence his ratings as we both have agreed upon. He's got a lot of political capitol from that and in the last 6 years he's done no major gaffe to give the populous a different view.

His past is not so much of a big issue as you are portraying it I think. I certainly can appreciate your grasp of it and your "dislike" of him, to put it mildly. The general populous simply don't care about the past of many of our politicians (see Ted Kennedy) but they will still vote for him if he/she seems nice.

If GW can be elected twice with his embarrassment of a past and running primarily on some semblance of personality, Rudy can duplicate it as his past is not as bad and he has far more personality than GW does.

Fun discussion Tyrone. Thanks. This was definately educational.

I think if you stick to the point that he is seen in a positive light, then i agree. But, likable, no way.

More personality: I'm not sure I agree, and is that really a good thing?

As for me, don't confuse what i wrote for my opinion of the candidate.

Response:

1. More than daughter, his son at Duke as well. He treated Hanover terribly, and his children aren't happy about it, nor do they like Judith. I'm sorry, but a candidate in this country needs that family image..especially Reps.
2. Kerik. Associated with the mob. Not the failed bid.
3. No, i guess i would have to give better examples like the fact that he requires a private plane, Judith must accompany and have a seat next to him on any dais...and she requires a separate seat on the plane for her bag.
4. Um. When a grand jury accuses your friend of molestation and his diocese has suspended him, then i don't think you keep them on as a consultant. That isn't politically smart. What is most disturbing about this report is not the fact of abuse, but the utter failure of Guiliani to empathize with the victims of abuse. Basically, it reinforces the reality that Giuliani is a wheeler-dealer who plays fast and loose with the truth.
5. I see your point, but i think you dont' realize the liberals and dems aren't switching to vote repub. Maybe in the past, but no way for another Bush, which rudy is..with a lisp. His previous actions as mayor soured most libs.
6. Temper isn't usually found in likable people. Rudy is known for his temper and inability to get along. Bush maybe an idiot, but he is likable.
7.Rudy is for gun control (that isn't standard GOP), but only in urban areas. LOL He was in favor when he was mayor, getting handguns off the streets.
8. That may be true. Good point. I don't think it will work that way, but he could try to spin it. Unfortunately, he has many critics of his work in 9/11. Now that 9/11 isn't sacred and beyond criticism, we can plainly see the mistakes that were made. Hello, Ms. Whitman.

[Partial]

CHC it is not worth getting into it.

Tyrone will cite his opinion as a fact and then criticize you for a lack of facts :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

I would get out before he just pisses you off and makes you snap.

[Cheesehead Craig]

Actually, it was a nice discussion.

There was no name calling and it was fairly civil. Politics is always a messy area to discuss and frankly, this was interesting.

[Scott Campbell]

Actually, it was a nice discussion.


Easy for you to say. You won.


:)

[Joemailman]

Again, Rudy isn't likable. Go back and do some research. He is not liked by those in NYC for the most part. They do appreciate his accomplishments, but there was never a lovefest for him.

Romney: It won't matter, as with Rudy. The hard core conserv/religious right aren't jumping on the train. Rudy is multi divorced, cheated on his wives, etc.
Then how is Rudy leading the GOP Presidential nominee race if he's not likable?

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/us/republican_presidential_nomination-192.html

You don't get a 9% + point lead if you are not likable. He's not just running in NYC. It's his national appeal. Most people only know him from how he acted in and is portrayed after 9/11 which was extremely favorable.

I did my research to show he is currently likable. Now you go do some research to show me he's not liked nationwide.

If Rudy having a 9 point lead in the polls makes him likable in your eyes, what does Hillary having a 18 point lead make her to you? Lovable? :shock: :lol: :wink:

[MJZiggy]

Here's an interesting little tidbit...in another article, the fire chief goes off...

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/2007/08/10/2007-08-10_911_workers_outraged_by_new_rudy_claim.html

[packinpatland]

I remember this tidbit:

http://www.papillonsartpalace.com/chelseas.htm

Curious confusion swirls around former first daughter Chelsea Clinton's upcoming essay for TALK magazine describing exactly where she was on Terror Day in New York City.

Breaking her media silence once and for all -- Chelsea writes in great detail about her personal experience on the morning of September 11.

But, the DRUDGE REPORT has learned, her account now sharply conflicts with her mother's version of Chelsea's New York adventure.

Appearing on NBC's DATELINE, Sen. Hillary Clinton told how daughter Chelsea cheated death on that fateful morning.

"She had gone on what she thought would be a great jog," Hillary Clinton explained. "She was going down to Battery Park, she was going to go around the towers. She was going to get a cup of coffee and - that's when the plane hit!"

Hillary's dramatic story about her daughter's close call with the Twin Towers became a media sensation.

"At that moment, she was not just a Senator, but a concerned parent," TODAY show's Katie Couric told viewers.

But now, in her own words, Chelsea does not mention a jog. Does not mention her plans to go to Battery Park, around the towers -- only to be stopped by a coffee break.

In fact, Chelsea writes that she was at her friend's apartment on Park Avenue South -- miles from Ground Zero -- when she learned of the attacks!

"I stared senselessly at the television," Chelsea writes.

Calls to Senator Clinton went unreturned on Friday.

-----------------------------------------------------------
Filed By Matt Drudge

[Tyrone Bigguns]

CHC it is not worth getting into it.

Tyrone will cite his opinion as a fact and then criticize you for a lack of facts :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

I would get out before he just pisses you off and makes you snap.

Man, you are obsessed with me.

What opinions would that be? Like the fact that that AT&T doesn't control the internet like you said. Guess the data is my opinion.

Perhaps you should talk less and listen more, especially from someone who thought Obama was muslim.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Actually, it was a nice discussion.


Easy for you to say. You won.


:)

Um, you don't have winners and losers in discussions.

But, if there were...i definitely won.

[Partial]

CHC it is not worth getting into it.

Tyrone will cite his opinion as a fact and then criticize you for a lack of facts :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

I would get out before he just pisses you off and makes you snap.

Man, you are obsessed with me.

What opinions would that be? Like the fact that that AT&T doesn't control the internet like you said. Guess the data is my opinion.

Perhaps you should talk less and listen more, especially from someone who thought Obama was muslim.

Again, where did I ever say that?

I question your credentials. I still maintain you're milking your 4 years at UW and give yourself a little ego stroke despite being near 40 and finally only getting to a middle-management position at some shitty job.

And you most definitely did not win. But I could see where you would think that considering you HAVE to be right and EVERYONE else is automatically wrong. Considering you still have clearly not done your homework on the internet thing, or else you wouldn't still be singing that tune.

CHC pretty much bitch slapped your silly post from end to end. Time to go back to the drawing board and continue eating up the mindless, actionless statements of your boy Obama Hussein.

[falco]

Um, a GOP candidate will be elected.. Are you crazy? Chocolate Hussein Obama or a women? Not to knock on either of those, but I am simply stating why they won't be voted in. Society as a whole is not ready for a female president (why that is I know not of) or a black/muslin either.

This is where you said it Partial. Did you forget so soon?

[Terry]

And as far as Guiliani being likable, why did he have a 92% approval rating on October 2nd of 2001?

Why the f*ck do you think? Because NY had been struck by a terrorist attack and he was the knight in shining armor.

For the last 6 goddamn years that's all he's been about, September of 2001.

I would hope so considering he hasn't been in office in 6 years.

Talk about an outburst.

Partial, I'm still trying to figure how you were going to get away with calling Obama a Muslim? Maybe you shouldn't read everything you get in your junk email.

I don't read junk mail and have no idea if he is a muslim or not. I made the assumption based on his name. Barack Hussein Obama is very middle-eastern sounding.

Then maybe you should find out for sure before spouting. The name, along with its owner, are African.

That's right. From those parts of Africa which are Muslim. So he's obviously descended from Muslims and you know what the Sicilians say.

:knll:

[falco]

This is why I won't be voting for Rudy. I've been trying to find this since this discussion came up.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=aqrEw901KXE

I'm loyal to my furry friends.

[Terry]

I am an idiot? Exactly what have you done in this world? What is your career and qualifications? What has the baggins family historically done?

Well, they found that ring, for one thing. And they were instrumental in overthrowing Sauron. They're credited with saving Middle Earth.

[MJZiggy]

Well, technically in his defense, he actually called Obama a lovely cotton fabric commonly used in bedsheets...but I'm willing to assume he meant the religion...

[falco]

Well, technically in his defense, he actually called Obama a lovely cotton fabric commonly used in bedsheets...but I'm willing to assume he meant the religion...

Boy zig, with that kind of technicality you should be helping defend mcdonalds against their "cheese suit".

[Terry]

Obama has been a Senator for 2 years and has spent the whole time campaigning to be president, not addressing issues.

Not really. He intended to finish his work in the senate and then run in 2012. However, with all the hype surrounding him, he made the smart deceision and ran now.

So the whole "He hasn't done jack, besides campaigning" shtick isn't really that accurate.

I refuse to address Tyrone since he is a troll and nothing more.

What has he done?!??!? How has he made Illinois a better place to live??!???!?

He hasn't done jack. He talks a good game. I can think of another guy who did that that ended up impeacher and didn't do a lot for our country.

He isn't going to win. And good riddance for that. We need another strong GOP candidate. Just not Bush and Cheney and the Haliburton fun that comes along with them.

I'm far from a troll.

You are just an idiot who makes ridiculous statements. That is why you don't respond. Backbone of the internet..refuted.

Better place: Um, sorry, the nature of the senate isn't about making your home state better..unless you are now complaining that he hasn't gotten enough pork.

Impeacher: um, are you referring to Nixon. That is the only president impeached. yea, it would suck to have another clinton in office..good employment, surging economy, not despised by the rest of the world, etc.

Tyrone, Nixon resigned, he was never impeached (although he most likely would have been). Clinton was impeached.

True. My fault. Though, Clinton wasn't impeached, he was acquitted by the senate.

Yes, he was impeached. Impeachment isn't conviction, it's the process, more like being indicted. He was acquited.

Like someone else said, however, it was political, as with Andrew Johnson. Had Nixon remained in office, he would have been impeached for non-political reasons, which would have been novel.

Most people don't understand high crimes and misdemeanors. People say Clinton lied, some say he committed perjury. Who cares? Those aren't high crimes or misdemeanors as the terms were designed to mean by the founding fathers. In that context, shoplifting is not a high crime or misdemeanor. The constitutional crime he was charged with was putting himself above the law, which is impeachable. We all know that was a pathetic excuse, but it was the rationale. The current bozos at the helm are ten times as impeachable as Nixon was, but the congress is not doing their duty - neither side of the aisle. Madison and his pals foresaw executive power grabbing, but they didn't seem to foresee a congress that would refuse to fulfill its constitutional obligations. I guess they didn't foresee such a total loss of education and character among American statesmen.

[MJZiggy]

This is why I won't be voting for Rudy. I've been trying to find this since this discussion came up.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=aqrEw901KXE

I'm loyal to my furry friends.

That is hilarious. Just the kind of warm, fuzzy guy that people want in office...

[Terry]

This is why I won't be voting for Rudy. I've been trying to find this since this discussion came up.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=aqrEw901KXE

I'm loyal to my furry friends.

Good clip! I'm with you, lol. What I wonder about that incident is whether Americans will like Rudy more for his approach, or dislike him more because of the use of his platform to emotionally bully and belittle.

Does anyone remember that incident where some mayor kicked a Beagle, or something like that (I don't quite recall it)? I only remember that it got a lot of bad press for the guy, Beagles being seen as the most lovable breed of dog out there, never mind them being our best friends overall, lol.

[Terry]

I used to really follow politics but haven't for some years now. I don't want to see Obama or Hillary elected, but not sure if I want Guliani or Romney either. If I had to choose right now the lesser of the evils would be Guliani or Romney. The far liberal socialize everything bent of Obama and Hillary scare me.

Maybe Merlin, who seems to follow politics, can throw in his two cents.

I still marvel at this American tendency to find socialism and communism under every bed. The last thing America needs to worry about is socialism. The feds could nationalize the oil companies and turn medicine into a government program tomorrow and the USA would still be 99% capitalist, open market, and democratic.

It's in places like China that people have to worry about the "socialize everything" crowd since everything is already socialized and centralized. Some progress by the common sense moderates to inject some capitalism and at least economic freedom into their system is carrying it forward at a lightning rate, but make no mistake, those moderates are still essentially communists.

Same thing for us, but in reverse. Liberals are not left wingers - they are right wingers who are just not AS right wing as most conservatives. People like FDR were smart enough to know that spreading around the crumbs a little thicker among the masses was the best way to keep everyone happy so that business could prosper and everyone else could continue to get richer. Real Marxists and Commies have always hated American liberals - not because liberals are leftists, but because they are right wingers with enough foresight to know what strengthens the system.

It's not the "socialize everything" crowd you conservative guys have to worry about. It's the type of short sighted right wing ideologues like those in the administration right now.

Ron Paul is probably the best one of the lot from either party. But he won't catch on, whoever said that is right. Pity.

[Scott Campbell]

People say Clinton lied, some say he committed perjury. Who cares?


Who cares?

1) Me.
2) Lots of other people, but not everybody.
3) The United States House of Representatives.

I'm sure I've left somebody out. Some of us have higher standards of conduct for our president than others. Implying that Clinton didn't do anything wrong (the who cares comment) by complaining that George is worse smells like it's tainted by the same partisanship you denounce in your post.

[MJZiggy]

Give him a couple shots at it. He may be the new Perot...

[Scott Campbell]

This is why I won't be voting for Rudy. I've been trying to find this since this discussion came up.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=aqrEw901KXE

I'm loyal to my furry friends.

Good clip! I'm with you, lol. What I wonder about that incident is whether Americans will like Rudy more for his approach, or dislike him more because of the use of his platform to emotionally bully and belittle.

Does anyone remember that incident where some mayor kicked a Beagle, or something like that (I don't quite recall it)? I only remember that it got a lot of bad press for the guy, Beagles being seen as the most lovable breed of dog out there, never mind them being our best friends overall, lol.


I wasn't planning on voting for him, but that clip reinforced my decision.

[falco]

How could you be against such an all american animal:

http://cheekykitten.blogs.com/my_weblog/images/ferret2.jpg

[Terry]

People say Clinton lied, some say he committed perjury. Who cares?


Who cares?

1) Me.
2) Lots of other people, but not everybody.
3) The United States House of Representatives.

I'm sure I've left somebody out. Some of us have higher standards of conduct for our president than others. Implying that Clinton didn't do anything wrong (the who cares comment) by complaining that George is worse smells like it's tainted by the same partisanship you denounce in your post.
I haven't noticed those higher standards of conduct for the president that you are touting here, but to each his own.

What I meant was that I'm a lot less concerned by a president's sexual peccadilloes and everything attendant to them than I am about threats to the American constitutional system. It has nothing to do with partisanship - and I'm not trying to contend that I am not personally partisan. I just don't care who has sex with who and whether they lie about it or not, be they republican or democrat.

I don't care any more about what the House of Representatives think than you do when it's filled with democrats. You could have included them all in your 2nd category - lots of other people.

Meanwhile, I'm every bit as concerned about a Hillary Clinton who has imperial powers as I am about a George Bush having them. The only surprise for me would be that you seemingly aren't.

[Terry]

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/2007/08/10/2007-08-10_911_workers_outraged_by_new_rudy_claim.html

9/11 Workers Outraged by New Rudy Claim
By Celest Katz
The New York Daily News

Friday 10 August 2007

Rudy Giuliani drew outrage and indignation from Sept. 11 first-responders yesterday by saying he spent as much time - or more - exposed to the site's dangers as workers who dug through the debris for the missing and the dead.

Speaking to reporters at a Cincinnati Reds ballgame he caught between fund-raisers, the GOP front-runner said he helped 9/11 families and defended himself against critics of how he managed the attack's aftermath.

"This is not a mayor or a governor or a President who's sitting in an ivory tower," Giuliani said. "I was at Ground Zero as often, if not more, than most of the workers. I was there working with them. I was exposed to exactly the same things they were exposed to. So in that sense, I'm one of them."

His statement rang false to Queens paramedic Marvin Bethea, who said he suffered a stroke, posttraumatic stress disorder and breathing problems after responding to the attacks.

"I personally find that very, very insulting," he said.

"Standing there doing a photo-op and telling the men, 'You're doing a good job,' I don't consider that to be working," said Bethea, 47.

Ironworker Jonathan Sferazo, 52, who said he spent a month at the site and is now disabled, runs a worker advocacy group with Bethea and called Giuliani's comments "severely" out of line.

"He's not one of us. He never has been and he never will be. He never served in a capacity where he was a responder," Sferazo said.

In the aftermath of the attacks, admirers dubbed Giuliani "America's Mayor," praising his leadership in the face of an unprecedented disaster. Detractors, including the International Association of Fire Fighters, which put out a scathing 13-minute video on his performance, suggested he profited politically and financially from the attacks.

"[Giuliani] is self-absorbed, arrogant and deluded," said IAFF spokesman Jeff Zack.

Responded Giuliani spokesman Michael McKeon, "Americans saw Rudy's performance for themselves during the aftermath of 9/11 and will dismiss this as the ridiculous and partisan rantings of a Democratic front group, because that's what they are."

Giuliani backer Lee Ielpi, a retired firefighter who lost his son, said no one's saying Giuliani dug through the rubble personally, but that doesn't mean he wasn't exposed to toxins.

"For me to say I saw him every day [would] not be fair," said Ielpi, who participated in the recovery effort for nine months. "But I can say I did see the mayor there a large number of times, [trying] to be as helpful and supportive as possible."

[Scott Campbell]

Meanwhile, I'm every bit as concerned about a Hillary Clinton who has imperial powers as I am about a George Bush having them. The only surprise for me would be that you seemingly aren't.



I'm surprised too. How on earth did you arrive at that whacky conclusion?

I guess I'll clarify the record even though I think it's kind of silly to think otherwise - I too am against any president having imperial powers.

[Scott Campbell]

I don't care any more about what the House of Representatives think than you do when it's filled with democrats.



Another goofy set of conclusions. I've voted for Jim Matheson (D) in the last two elections. If a Democratic House impeached a president, I'd care.

[Terry]

Back off a little, Scott. And stop trying to insult me. What I said was that some people say he (Clinton) lied, others say he committed perjury, who cares - meaning I don't much care about the distinction, particularly when it comes to one's personal sex life. The distinction, not about lying. If it concerns a murder, I certainly care in both cases - if it concerns an affair, I don't care in either case.

As for the House, I also care if they impeach someone and I too think it would be silly to think otherwise, so nice try shifting the focus to set up your little insult. I was talking about the same original subject.

My original comments were not aimed at any individual here in particular and I don't much appreciate you targeting me to play these silly little oneupsmanship games.

So go troll on someone else. I dislike dishonesty in discourse with anyone - whether it's perjury or just plain simple game playing. I'm out of this thread, so you go ahead and have your last word.

[GrnBay007]

I think political threads are bad for any forum...that is not meant to be political. It would be great if there could be calm/rational discussion and everyone accepting of other's thoughts/positions. I've never ever seen that accomplished when talking politics.....or religion for that matter. It never seems to fail. The banter/bitterness/sarcasm spills over to other areas of the forum. Just my opinion. Prove me wrong guys.

[Scott Campbell]

Back off a little, Scott. And stop trying to insult me.


I'm not trying to insult you. You misrepresented my position on two occassions, either intentionally or unintentionally. In such cases I'm going to do two things:

1) Clarify my position.
2) I'll do so strongly enough to discourage the perp. from doing it again.

That's it. You don't need to read anything else into it. I respect your other positions even if I don't agree with all of them.

As far as political threads go, this seems pretty mild. I thought it was church league rules in here - no blood, no foul.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

CHC it is not worth getting into it.

Tyrone will cite his opinion as a fact and then criticize you for a lack of facts :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

I would get out before he just pisses you off and makes you snap.

Man, you are obsessed with me.

What opinions would that be? Like the fact that that AT&T doesn't control the internet like you said. Guess the data is my opinion.

Perhaps you should talk less and listen more, especially from someone who thought Obama was muslim.

Again, where did I ever say that?

I question your credentials. I still maintain you're milking your 4 years at UW and give yourself a little ego stroke despite being near 40 and finally only getting to a middle-management position at some shitty job.

And you most definitely did not win. But I could see where you would think that considering you HAVE to be right and EVERYONE else is automatically wrong. Considering you still have clearly not done your homework on the internet thing, or else you wouldn't still be singing that tune.

CHC pretty much bitch slapped your silly post from end to end. Time to go back to the drawing board and continue eating up the mindless, actionless statements of your boy Obama Hussein.

Where did you ever say that. LOL. How about your Google thread:

"Right now, pretty much AT&T controls the way we connect to the internet whether anyone wants to admit it or not. For a company that went bankrupt and got 2 billion from the government, they have come back very strong and showed no remorse towards their customers.

Then you should really get your facts straight because AT&T is behind just about every provider in the world. That road runner connection your using is going through AT&T at some point."

Credentials: You can question them all you want. I would expect that outta someone who has done nothing yet. I'm sure you will be a shining example for UWM someday. As for middle management, i'm not there. But, for you to denigrate someone who actually has is kinda foolish. When you are in the real world you will see making it to middle management is an accomplishment.

Win: You need to relax. My response was to Scott, not directed at you. It was a discussion, there is no intention of winning. Because what is there to win?

But, feel free to keep your obsession with me. FYI, tommorow I will be wearing my grey trousers and white shirt. That should tide you over.

Feel free to continue to spout off and then get slapped rhetorically.

[Partial]

CHC it is not worth getting into it.

Tyrone will cite his opinion as a fact and then criticize you for a lack of facts :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

I would get out before he just pisses you off and makes you snap.

Man, you are obsessed with me.

What opinions would that be? Like the fact that that AT&T doesn't control the internet like you said. Guess the data is my opinion.

Perhaps you should talk less and listen more, especially from someone who thought Obama was muslim.

Again, where did I ever say that?

I question your credentials. I still maintain you're milking your 4 years at UW and give yourself a little ego stroke despite being near 40 and finally only getting to a middle-management position at some shitty job.

And you most definitely did not win. But I could see where you would think that considering you HAVE to be right and EVERYONE else is automatically wrong. Considering you still have clearly not done your homework on the internet thing, or else you wouldn't still be singing that tune.

CHC pretty much bitch slapped your silly post from end to end. Time to go back to the drawing board and continue eating up the mindless, actionless statements of your boy Obama Hussein.

Where did you ever say that. LOL. How about your Google thread:

"Right now, pretty much AT&T controls the way we connect to the internet whether anyone wants to admit it or not. For a company that went bankrupt and got 2 billion from the government, they have come back very strong and showed no remorse towards their customers.

Then you should really get your facts straight because AT&T is behind just about every provider in the world. That road runner connection your using is going through AT&T at some point."

Credentials: You can question them all you want. I would expect that outta someone who has done nothing yet. I'm sure you will be a shining example for UWM someday. As for middle management, i'm not there. But, for you to denigrate someone who actually has is kinda foolish. When you are in the real world you will see making it to middle management is an accomplishment.

Win: You need to relax. My response was to Scott, not directed at you. It was a discussion, there is no intention of winning. Because what is there to win?

But, feel free to keep your obsession with me. FYI, tommorow I will be wearing my grey trousers and white shirt. That should tide you over.

Feel free to continue to spout off and then get slapped rhetorically.

I was referencing the Obama being a Muslim, not the AT&T thing. I already told you once you do your homework we can discuss it.

A shining example of UWM I will be. As you know since you previously commented on it, I will be going to some sort of grad school or taking the actuarial exams. For what or where exactly I know not, but I have the grades and the credentials to make it into the lower portion of the top 10 schools in a couple of fields. Who knows what I will be doing someday, but if you looked up the definition of tenacity in the dictionary there would be a picture of me. I would like to think that someday I will be a shining example of a good, successful family man. I don't think what school I attended would have any bearing on that.

I still maintain I have does as much if not more than Obama has done already. He is just a pretty face and a good speaker.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

CHC it is not worth getting into it.

Tyrone will cite his opinion as a fact and then criticize you for a lack of facts :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

I would get out before he just pisses you off and makes you snap.

Man, you are obsessed with me.

What opinions would that be? Like the fact that that AT&T doesn't control the internet like you said. Guess the data is my opinion.

Perhaps you should talk less and listen more, especially from someone who thought Obama was muslim.

Again, where did I ever say that?

I question your credentials. I still maintain you're milking your 4 years at UW and give yourself a little ego stroke despite being near 40 and finally only getting to a middle-management position at some shitty job.

And you most definitely did not win. But I could see where you would think that considering you HAVE to be right and EVERYONE else is automatically wrong. Considering you still have clearly not done your homework on the internet thing, or else you wouldn't still be singing that tune.

CHC pretty much bitch slapped your silly post from end to end. Time to go back to the drawing board and continue eating up the mindless, actionless statements of your boy Obama Hussein.

Where did you ever say that. LOL. How about your Google thread:

"Right now, pretty much AT&T controls the way we connect to the internet whether anyone wants to admit it or not. For a company that went bankrupt and got 2 billion from the government, they have come back very strong and showed no remorse towards their customers.

Then you should really get your facts straight because AT&T is behind just about every provider in the world. That road runner connection your using is going through AT&T at some point."

Credentials: You can question them all you want. I would expect that outta someone who has done nothing yet. I'm sure you will be a shining example for UWM someday. As for middle management, i'm not there. But, for you to denigrate someone who actually has is kinda foolish. When you are in the real world you will see making it to middle management is an accomplishment.

Win: You need to relax. My response was to Scott, not directed at you. It was a discussion, there is no intention of winning. Because what is there to win?

But, feel free to keep your obsession with me. FYI, tommorow I will be wearing my grey trousers and white shirt. That should tide you over.

Feel free to continue to spout off and then get slapped rhetorically.

I was referencing the Obama being a Muslim, not the AT&T thing. I already told you once you do your homework we can discuss it.

A shining example of UWM I will be. As you know since you previously commented on it, I will be going to some sort of grad school or taking the actuarial exams. For what or where exactly I know not, but I have the grades and the credentials to make it into the lower portion of the top 10 schools in a couple of fields. Who knows what I will be doing someday, but if you looked up the definition of tenacity in the dictionary there would be a picture of me. I would like to think that someday I will be a shining example of a good, successful family man. I don't think what school I attended would have any bearing on that.

I still maintain I have does as much if not more than Obama has done already. He is just a pretty face and a good speaker.

Homework: Um, and your response to the graphic that was proviced in that thread. Clearly showed that AT&T wasn't in control as you stated.

Top 10: Until you are accepted it is all talk. And, w/o verification, it is just more of your pontificating.

[Partial]

CHC it is not worth getting into it.

Tyrone will cite his opinion as a fact and then criticize you for a lack of facts :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

I would get out before he just pisses you off and makes you snap.

Man, you are obsessed with me.

What opinions would that be? Like the fact that that AT&T doesn't control the internet like you said. Guess the data is my opinion.

Perhaps you should talk less and listen more, especially from someone who thought Obama was muslim.

Again, where did I ever say that?

I question your credentials. I still maintain you're milking your 4 years at UW and give yourself a little ego stroke despite being near 40 and finally only getting to a middle-management position at some shitty job.

And you most definitely did not win. But I could see where you would think that considering you HAVE to be right and EVERYONE else is automatically wrong. Considering you still have clearly not done your homework on the internet thing, or else you wouldn't still be singing that tune.

CHC pretty much bitch slapped your silly post from end to end. Time to go back to the drawing board and continue eating up the mindless, actionless statements of your boy Obama Hussein.

Where did you ever say that. LOL. How about your Google thread:

"Right now, pretty much AT&T controls the way we connect to the internet whether anyone wants to admit it or not. For a company that went bankrupt and got 2 billion from the government, they have come back very strong and showed no remorse towards their customers.

Then you should really get your facts straight because AT&T is behind just about every provider in the world. That road runner connection your using is going through AT&T at some point."

Credentials: You can question them all you want. I would expect that outta someone who has done nothing yet. I'm sure you will be a shining example for UWM someday. As for middle management, i'm not there. But, for you to denigrate someone who actually has is kinda foolish. When you are in the real world you will see making it to middle management is an accomplishment.

Win: You need to relax. My response was to Scott, not directed at you. It was a discussion, there is no intention of winning. Because what is there to win?

But, feel free to keep your obsession with me. FYI, tommorow I will be wearing my grey trousers and white shirt. That should tide you over.

Feel free to continue to spout off and then get slapped rhetorically.

I was referencing the Obama being a Muslim, not the AT&T thing. I already told you once you do your homework we can discuss it.

A shining example of UWM I will be. As you know since you previously commented on it, I will be going to some sort of grad school or taking the actuarial exams. For what or where exactly I know not, but I have the grades and the credentials to make it into the lower portion of the top 10 schools in a couple of fields. Who knows what I will be doing someday, but if you looked up the definition of tenacity in the dictionary there would be a picture of me. I would like to think that someday I will be a shining example of a good, successful family man. I don't think what school I attended would have any bearing on that.

I still maintain I have does as much if not more than Obama has done already. He is just a pretty face and a good speaker.

Homework: Um, and your response to the graphic that was proviced in that thread. Clearly showed that AT&T wasn't in control as you stated.

Top 10: Until you are accepted it is all talk. And, w/o verification, it is just more of your pontificating.

Said graphic was correct to an extent but does not take a few facts into consideration.

[Joemailman]

You guys keep quoting each other and pretty soon you'll need two pages for a single post. :mrgreen:

[Zool]

When are you guys gonna just do it to relieve this sexual tension between you? Its almost palpable.

[Cheesehead Craig]

If Rudy having a 9 point lead in the polls makes him likable in your eyes, what does Hillary having a 18 point lead make her to you? Lovable? :shock: :lol: :wink:
Just able to catch back up with the thread.

Excellent counterpoint Joe! Got me on that one. :lol:

[Badgerinmaine]

I'm taking no side here, but in case anyone is interested, Barack Obama is a member of the United Church of Christ (UCC), one of the more socially liberal mainline Protestant churches. Here's an article I found discussing him and his beliefs:
[url]http://nwaonline.net/articles/2007/08/20/religion/063007mattingly.txt

[the_idle_threat]

I'm taking no side here, but in case anyone is interested, Barack Obama is a member of the United Church of Christ (UCC), one of the more socially liberal mainline Protestant churches. Here's an article I found discussing him and his beliefs:
[url]http://nwaonline.net/articles/2007/08/20/religion/063007mattingly.txt

Don't be fooled. It's just a front for al Qaeda.