Quick hits from Thursday nights practice

[RashanGary]

Spitz, Wells and Colledge held up during one on one pass rushing drills against Colin Cole, Corey Williams and Cullin Jenkins.

The offensive line opened a huge hole on the left side breaking open what would have been at least a 15 yard run for Pope.

The WR's have shown better hands than I remember in past camps. Very rarely does a ball hit the ground that is catchable.

Rayner was 1 for 1 from 51 yards. He nailed it right down the middle and it would have been good for 61.

Crosby was also 1 for 1 from 51 yards but his barely made it past the left upright.

From watching, I think they have the same leg strength but Rayner is more accurate and kicks higher on kickoffs, allowing for his coverage team to get down the field. I would say Rayner has the edge on kickoffs and according to packersnews.com, he also has the leg up right now on field goals.

Rodgers continues to look accurate and decisive.

James Jones continues to catch everything thrown his way.

Al Harris spends a lot of time at the jugs machine or catching balls from the QB's. You can tell he's working on his ball skills.

[PackerTimer]

Thanks for the reports JH. I love hearing the reports about Jones. It's too early to make any judgment, but its great to hear the same type of reports that we heard about Jennings last summer.

[woodbuck27]

How did DD and Greg Jennings look tonight?

Same with Bubba Franks?

Is TE Donald Lee making plays?

Are any TE's impressing you?

Have you seen anything out of Kory Hall yet?

[RashanGary]

He's doing a good job.

Driver
Jennings
Martin
Jones
Clowney
Holliday


I know they are not world beaters but when compared to:

Driver
Ferguson
Chatman
Taco Wallace
Andre Thurmon

It's like having 6 probowlers.

[RashanGary]

How did DD and Greg Jennings look tonight?

Same with Bubba Franks?

Is TE Donald Lee making plays?

Are any TE's impressing you?

Have you seen anything out of Kory Hall yet?

Kory Hall hasn't done much to stand out.

Bubba was out tonight. Alcorn caught a nice bomb on a deep seam from Favre. Lee hasn't stood out to me.

Greg Jennings had a nice crossing route that might have gone for a TD with the yards after catch. AFter he caught it he was instantly up the field and nobody got a hand on him.

[RashanGary]

Harrell has looked pretty bad. He's just not as powerfull as I had hoped. He's obviously a rookie and he's going to have his struggles, but he's definitly a guy who needs a year to get stronger and more technically sound.

I think he's about eqaul to Cole right now. For a rookie it's not bad, but he's a high pick so you want him to eventually be a probowl type DT.

[Bretsky]

Harrell has looked pretty bad. He's just not as powerfull as I had hoped. He's obviously a rookie and he's going to have his struggles, but he's definitly a guy who needs a year to get stronger and more technically sound.

I think he's about eqaul to Cole right now. For a rookie it's not bad, but he's a high pick so you want him to eventually be a probowl type DT.


I hope you are wrong about Harrell; TT really liked the guy, enough to turn down Cleveland's second and a future first round draft pick so I'd hope he'd be par with our starters. Cole, to me, is one of Wist's "just a guy" players.


I noticed you have not mentioned Robert Ferguson, which is music to my ears. With the additional WR's does he look like a pedestrian now ?

Have you noticed much of Spitz ? He's my main concern on the OL.

[RashanGary]

Spitz dominated Cole in a one on one pass rushing drill tonight. Cole barely even budged him.

Harrell does look like just a guy right now Bretsky. I'm still expecting him to play and to help us but I'm not expecting him to do what he did in college. He's going to need a year like Mario or any other DT/power DE.

Ferguson catches a pass every now and again, but he's definitly being weeded out. They used to try to find ways to get him the ball. They tried to let him compete for a starter. Now, he's no higher regarded than Ruvell Martin or Carlyl Holliday. I think he's gone Bretsky.

[Partial]

I would expect Harrell will take a bit to get into game shape considering he's coming off a serious injury and whatnot.

By the end of camp, he'll be the best DT on our roster.

[BallHawk]

By the end of camp, he'll be the best DT on our roster.

:alc: :alc: :shock: :shock:

[KYPack]

Any Moll sightings?

I've read reports that he was getting rolled in practice.

Harrell will take time to get going. When you tear those big muscles, they take a long time to heal. I've experienced a torn triceps and you ain't back 100% for 12 - 18 months. That will hurt in the weight room as much as on the field. It takes a long time to get back to full strength so you can lift the heavy weight it take to build a DLineman's strength.

I really think Harrell will eventually be a star for us, just be patient, Pack fans.

[RashanGary]

I would expect Harrell will take a bit to get into game shape considering he's coming off a serious injury and whatnot.

By the end of camp, he'll be the best DT on our roster.

I don't think so Partial. He gets shoved around pretty easily. He has a hard time getting leverage. He's going to have to get stronger. You don't get stronger over one training camp. He'll play and he'll do a decent job in our rotation, but I don't expect a playmaker until next year at the soonest.

[Partial]

I would expect Harrell will take a bit to get into game shape considering he's coming off a serious injury and whatnot.

By the end of camp, he'll be the best DT on our roster.

I don't think so Partial. He gets shoved around pretty easily. He has a hard time getting leverage. He's going to have to get stronger. You don't get stronger over one training camp. He'll play and he'll do a decent job in our rotation, but I don't expect a playmaker until next year at the soonest.

I simply don't believe it because the big thing with him is he is strong as an ox. Strength shouldn't be one of his issues. Nor should playing with leverage. Time will tell, but I think he'll be a very solid starter by the end of camp.


My guess is his body is just tired. If I remember correctly they have restricted him from doing any sort of running or contact exercises. My guess is he is simply out of shape right now. At the second practice of a two-a-day, even if you're stronger than the guy in front of you but are fat and winded and the opposition is not, you're probably going to lose the battle.

When you don't have any energy left in the tank it is probably fairly difficult to penetrate and beat your man.

[RashanGary]

Moll looks like a completely different player to a year ago, KY. He's is by far the biggest and most imposing of the young lineman. I think he's doing a pretty good job but he's going up against 2nd string guys. He stoned Michael Montgomery tonight.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Moll got dominated twice by Montgomery during the City Stadium practice, but I've also read that it was the first time he got dominated like that.

[RashanGary]

I simply don't believe it because the big thing with him is he is strong as an ox. Strength shouldn't be one of his issues. Nor should playing with leverage. Time will tell, but I think he'll be a very solid starter by the end of camp.

I think he'll do a pretty good job, but I don't think he's ready to take Williams or Pickets job just yet.

[woodbuck27]

I simply don't believe it because the big thing with him is he is strong as an ox. Strength shouldn't be one of his issues. Nor should playing with leverage. Time will tell, but I think he'll be a very solid starter by the end of camp.

I think he'll do a pretty good job, but I don't think he's ready to take Williams or Pickets job just yet.

I appreciate all the information and the frankness JH.

It's time as a board we all try to get there for the future good of our team.

Forget the ego's and naivete.

[packrat]

Great reports. You make this the best board going right now. Focused on FOOTBALL, not gamesmanship between posters trying to cut each other down.

[woodbuck27]

Great reports. You make this the best board going right now. Focused on FOOTBALL, not gamesmanship between posters trying to cut each other down.

Yes.

This is a solid Packer home. It gets a tad testy at times, esp. just after the draft through to TC. A lot of that is because it's so slow. It certainly has been that way if your a Packer fan. :)

Then there's the real stuff to focus on. The roster.

Come here often packrat. It's a great learning environment and you'll get to know the members in time.

It's a safe place to be a Packer fan.

[woodbuck27]

I simply don't believe it because the big thing with him is he is strong as an ox. Strength shouldn't be one of his issues. Nor should playing with leverage. Time will tell, but I think he'll be a very solid starter by the end of camp.

I think he'll do a pretty good job, but I don't think he's ready to take Williams or Pickets job just yet.

Harrell does OK in drill

First-round draft choice Justin Harrell was OK but nothing special in one-on-one pass rush drills.

Harrell didn't beat anybody badly enough to get a sure sack, but he did get decent push on two of his three repetitions.

In two reps against guard Travis Leffew, Harrell was able to get decent penetration. But on a third rep against guard Adam Stenavich, Harrell was essentially stopped.

— Pete Dougherty/pdougher@greenbaypressgazette.com

[woodbuck27]

Harrell has looked pretty bad. He's just not as powerfull as I had hoped. He's obviously a rookie and he's going to have his struggles, but he's definitly a guy who needs a year to get stronger and more technically sound.

I think he's about eqaul to Cole right now. For a rookie it's not bad, but he's a high pick so you want him to eventually be a probowl type DT.


I hope you are wrong about Harrell; TT really liked the guy, enough to turn down Cleveland's second and a future first round draft pick so I'd hope he'd be par with our starters. Cole, to me, is one of Wist's "just a guy" players.


I noticed you have not mentioned Robert Ferguson, which is music to my ears. With the additional WR's does he look like a pedestrian now ?

Have you noticed much of Spitz ? He's my main concern on the OL.


http://www.packerpalace.com/links.html

An Offer He Couldn't Refuse

I just read this in a month-old piece by Jason Wilde on this year’s NFL draft:

Ted Thompson turned down a trade with the Cleveland Browns that would have given GBP the Browns first rounder in 2008 and flip-flopped the team’s 2nd, 3rd and 4th rounders this year

(all to GBP’s great advantage, because the Browns were the 3rd worst team in football last year) in exchange for our 1st round pick this year.

We improve our position on four draft picks for a pick we used on a player with a scary injury history.

As Wilde points out, the Browns aren’t going anywhere with a rookie QB and rookie left tackle next year. So the 2008 pick would have been quite high.

Wilde asked Thompson, who’s traded down in all of his 15 draft-day deals, why he wouldn’t consider taking a future pick:

“I don’t know (why). I’ve never really been able to figure that one out, quite frankly,” Thompson said when I asked him about it.

“I normally don’t do that.”

[CaliforniaCheez]

The Cleveland deal was intriguing. There was the second TE in the draft and 4th Safety available in round two. Who knows with Cleveland's first rounder next draft.

Something pre-injury showed well on film for Harrell. That was 2 years ago.
He is a pick for the future.

Aaron Kampmann said it best. "The guy is coachable and sincerely wants to get better. With those two things you know he is going to improve."

I did not see the draft as I was at the biggest HS track meet in the country that weekend. I did not see the alleged booing.

Why are people supportive of Rodgers whose few career meaningful snaps will be exceeded by Harrell's in his one rookie season?

Yet Harrell is not given the courtesy of a chance?

Perhaps one of the booers will explain.

[Cheesehead Craig]

I agree we need patience with Harrell. We're not relying on him to be our savior in the middle this year. The guy needs to get into football shape and he's getting there. I wasn't expecting much out of the guy except to be in the rotation to keep everyone fresh during the game this year. He'll get to where he needs to be.

[PackerBlues]

Conditioning for the NFL, has to be quite a step up from conditioning at the college level. You see it every year. While everyone was very high on Jennings last year, and Jennings did show a great amount of talent and production for a rookie, I am sure that I am not the only one that thought that he could use an extra 15-20 pounds of lean muscle mass added to his frame. I am sure that Harrell will be fine. His conditioning may have him ready by the start of the season, and there is a chance that it may take him the better part of the season to really understand where he needs to be conditioning wise.

As I have said before. You always hope that the first round pick will be a starter, from the first game of the season to the last. You hope, but its not a definite thing. If the second round pick plays as a starter at all during his first year, its a good thing, but not really expected. After that, any pick that turns into a starter is a rare gift.

[Packnut]

Rookies have little effect in the NFL so it's a mute point about his conditioning. He could have started in shape and still would'nt be better than the 2 guys ahead of him.

[CaliforniaCheez]

Harrell like many who dominate at the college level seemed to have done it on strength.

At the NFL level everyone is strong and well versed in technique.
Harrell will be learning technique this season and a full off season of strength and conditioning in Green Bay will help him greatly.

He was drafted for his potential. It takes time to get there.

[The Leaper]

I can't fault Thompson too much. Chances are reasonable that Cleveland would have a top 10 pick next year, but it isn't a lock. If Cleveland manages to go 7-9 or 8-8, then the trade really benefits Cleveland...who gets their mid round 1st selection a year in advance. With a young team like Green Bay has, you are looking to continue to build the roster NOW to have a strong contender by 2008 or 2009.

Teams after Green Bay are ones who should be taken to task even more. I would expect they all got the same deal...and no one accepted it until it got down to Dallas. By pick #20 or so, the deal became very advantageous for the Browns' trading partner.

[RashanGary]

Rookies have little effect in the NFL so it's a mute point about his conditioning. He could have started in shape and still would'nt be better than the 2 guys ahead of him.

I agree 100%. Hawk was a good player but that is very rare. Our Olineman for as promising as they looked for rookies were still rookies and in the grand scheme, the sucked compared to good vets. Harrell is going to be a solid backup this year, that's it. Next year if he's struggling we should all start to worry.

[Partial]

Rookies have little effect in the NFL so it's a mute point about his conditioning. He could have started in shape and still would'nt be better than the 2 guys ahead of him.

I agree 100%. Hawk was a good player but that is very rare. Our Olineman for as promising as they looked for rookies were still rookies and in the grand scheme, the sucked compared to good vets. Harrell is going to be a solid backup this year, that's it. Next year if he's struggling we should all start to worry.

Disagree with both completely. 1st round draft picks are supposed to step in right away. He'll be in shape sooner than later.

[woodbuck27]

I can't fault Thompson too much. Chances are reasonable that Cleveland would have a top 10 pick next year, but it isn't a lock. If Cleveland manages to go 7-9 or 8-8, then the trade really benefits Cleveland...who gets their mid round 1st selection a year in advance. With a young team like Green Bay has, you are looking to continue to build the roster NOW to have a strong contender by 2008 or 2009.

Teams after Green Bay are ones who should be taken to task even more. I would expect they all got the same deal...and no one accepted it until it got down to Dallas. By pick #20 or so, the deal became very advantageous for the Browns' trading partner.

That deal would likely have given us another top 5 pick. Plus we would have advanced in rounds 2-4 to the third pick per round (ahhemm, before TT traded down :) with one of them or more,of course).

He could have had a TT picnic !! :)

If we wanted to improve our depth. That move would have set just that up. We get two first round picks in round one 2008, and the way I see it there is a strong liklihood that both would be top ten picks.

If that was to be the case in reality, then again there was more offered to TT. It was just simply a win-win win. . .for our team.

TT may rightly be scratching his head over that one because such a move would have actually fit who he is.

He just flat out can't think on his feet. He has a ton to learn ( the man's in his mid fifty's and set in his ways) and do we have time for TT to look back on some of his errrs admit them and change? Assuming he could even go there.

Ever notice how red he can get? What's up with that?

Maybe he suffers high anxiety or hyper tension? Why does he act so tight when he comes out of his comfort zone ( his thinking closet ). . . and all that burping ! What's that about?

I good burp is necessary at times but not in public or before the press and camera's. :)

Am I the only person here that wonders or see's that stuff?

As a forum (board) we are very kind and patient with Ted Thompson. Most people here are very decent sorts. We'er solid people and Packer fans.

12 -20 spells patient.

I check around for all I can find on TT that reflects a poor opinion of his style of managing, just out of curiosity. There are Packer fans of an insulting opinion of his ways. What. . and the way or manner that they express their disenchantment with TT is brutal.

I actually feel terrible for the guy.

When he says it's time to win. . now !! It's very difficult to believe that he's being forthright. Does he really believe he did enough for 2007?

Because, he didn't.

He didn't ( sorry about that, but it's time we get off the glue). He makes every stall or excuse to not apply himself to meet our needs. He has to be our GM active in improving our team every day. BUSY !!!

We need badly at RB. We need at TE.

TT almost shrugs his shoulders and is perfectly content with the status quo. What other GM would act that way isn't a question but why does our's always seem to go just there?

[BallHawk]

Disagree with both completely. 1st round draft picks are supposed to step in right away. He'll be in shape sooner than later.

Earlier, in another thread, you said he's going to be the best DT on this team, on opening day. It's not going to happen.

For God's sake, he got stoned last night by Adam Stenavich! And I guarantee you, when he goes against Philly and NYG, he's not going to be going up against any guys like Adam Stenavich.

He'll be lucky if he's the 2nd best DT on our roster on opening day. He's playing like "a guy." He needs to step it up and it's going to take a drastic turnaround to make it happen.

I am not calling him a bust, but he's just not at a level, as of now, where he can make an impact.

[Fritz]

I still am not sure why TT didn't at least counteroffer. It would have seemed so Teddish to make such a trade. And in many respects it appears it would have been a good trade. It would have netted Sidney Rice, whom the Packers appeared to want, as well as the ability to trade down to get the Brandon Jacksons and the Rouses and perhaps even James Jones.

So un-tedlike.

[bbbffl66]

Harrell like many who dominate at the college level seemed to have done it on strength.

At the NFL level everyone is strong and well versed in technique.
Harrell will be learning technique this season and a full off season of strength and conditioning in Green Bay will help him greatly.

He was drafted for his potential. It takes time to get there.

I'm sure the next GM will thank TT then!

[Bretsky]

I still am not sure why TT didn't at least counteroffer. It would have seemed so Teddish to make such a trade. And in many respects it appears it would have been a good trade. It would have netted Sidney Rice, whom the Packers appeared to want, as well as the ability to trade down to get the Brandon Jacksons and the Rouses and perhaps even James Jones.

So un-tedlike.


We've beaten this horse to death, but I agree with you completely. We're rebuilding this team slowly and surely the TT way. That would have been an outstanding deal for Green Bay IMO and consistent in the way he is trying to rebuild through the draft.

Why would TT not do it ? Very simple. He loved Justin Harrell and didn't want to give him up. Maybe he ends up being right and Harrell is a perrennial all pro.

But odds are IMO next year we'd have been looking at one first round pick in the top 10 and a second first round pick in the top 20.

VERY very un TT like to turn down that deal.

[RashanGary]

Why would TT not do it ? Very simple. He loved Justin Harrell and didn't want to give him up.

This is getting more and more rare, but I agree 100% with you. I got the feeling that Thompson liked Harrell a lot.

[Bretsky]

Why would TT not do it ? Very simple. He loved Justin Harrell and didn't want to give him up.

This is getting more and more rare, but I agree 100% with you. I got the feeling that Thompson liked Harrell a lot.


My viewpoint from that comes from probably reading numerous articles right after the draft. TT was questioned about this quite a lot; every time he came back to the answer that he didn't want to give up the shot of drafting Justin Harrell.

But man, the Browns first round draft pick...........unless a fan feels like we are contenders right now it'd be hard to argue with that trade if TT made it.

[RashanGary]

I listen to the press conferences, B. You can hear the tone and gather little hints from how things are said. Much of communication is tone and body language. What is acctually said, is acctually not as important as how it's said. I sort of knew Morency was going to be out longer than a week. Just the way McCarthy talked, you could tell it was more serious than two weeks. I don't know, I think you can pick up a lot listening to those packer.com press conferences.

[Rastak]

I listen to the press conferences, B. You can hear the tone and gather little hints from how things are said. Much of communication is tone and body language. What is acctually said, is acctually not as important as how it's said. I sort of knew Morency was going to be out longer than a week. Just the way McCarthy talked, you could tell it was more serious than two weeks. I don't know, I think you can pick up a lot listening to those packer.com press conferences.



You did nail that one....credit where credit is due. I think some of your optimism (just some) is a bit wild.....but now is the time of year for that.


I wish I was as optomistic about the Vikes.....I'm a bit worried....

[woodbuck27]

I still am not sure why TT didn't at least counteroffer. It would have seemed so Teddish to make such a trade. And in many respects it appears it would have been a good trade. It would have netted Sidney Rice, whom the Packers appeared to want, as well as the ability to trade down to get the Brandon Jacksons and the Rouses and perhaps even James Jones.

So un-tedlike.

Well finally someone gets it. Thank You.

I feel that Ted's response indicates he may have blown that one. He would have improved his draft position for last April a lot by moving up to pick third in rounds 2-4, and, had two firsts, (possibly both in the top third) of the 2008 draft.

My stance.

I certainly believe he did blow it. I sense he knows that now.

Why my stance?

TT selected a DT with that pick in April instead of taking the Cleveland deal. In a sense that was a redundant move, given that DT is where we were strongest on the roster.

Let's take Justin Harrell's medical history out of the argument.

[vince]

It's funny how the people who criticize Thompson for "wasting" Brett Favre's final years by not acquiring the "name" players they think must be better than those already on the roster are the same people who are also criticizing him for not trading out of the first round and giving up the opportunity to acquire the most talented player possible who can help the team win while Brett Favre is still playing.

If Thompson had taken that trade, there's no doubt the same people would be criticizing him for having done so.

If Harrell turns out to be a staunch run defender, his selection will prove to be a very valuable one for Brett Favre and this franchise.

Obviously time will tell, but the strategy to select him in that spot, given the Packers projection for his skills and level of play - was very sound for the present and future of this franchise.

[Bretsky]

Disagree with both completely. 1st round draft picks are supposed to step in right away. He'll be in shape sooner than later.

Earlier, in another thread, you said he's going to be the best DT on this team, on opening day. It's not going to happen.

For God's sake, he got stoned last night by Adam Stenavich! And I guarantee you, when he goes against Philly and NYG, he's not going to be going up against any guys like Adam Stenavich.

He'll be lucky if he's the 2nd best DT on our roster on opening day. He's playing like "a guy." He needs to step it up and it's going to take a drastic turnaround to make it happen.

I am not calling him a bust, but he's just not at a level, as of now, where he can make an impact.


Hmm; I sense a bit of shortness in your Turtleite Kool Aide :lol:

Hey, one of these years we'll be able to compete in FFL in here; than the real trash talking and debating could start.

Good luck to you and Harv; I"ll miss that competition too.

B