"HARRELL OFF TO SLUGGISH START "

[Bretsky]

Notes: Harrell off to sluggish start
Team still has faith in top pick
By BOB McGINN
bmcginn@journalsentinel.com
Posted: Aug. 2, 2007

Green Bay - Defensive tackle Justin Harrell is off to a sluggish start after the first week of training camp, but the Green Bay Packers appear unconcerned.

Justin Harrell is trying to work himself into better football shape.
Harrell, the 16th pick in the 2007 draft, essentially is trying to play himself into shape after not having played football since mid-September because of a torn biceps.

Apparently because of his subpar conditioning, Harrell has exhibited little staying power in practice and hasn't been impressive against the run or pass. On Thursday morning, he was one of just two defensive linemen so fatigued that they had to take a knee after a rigorous drill.

The fact that their first-round draft choice is off to such an inauspicious start isn't lost on the Packers. However, they remain confident in Harrell's future.

"Just watching him, we recognize it will be awhile before he's in football shape," strength coach Rock Gullickson said. "He's really a good kid as far as his work ethic and the amount of effort he puts into his workouts. He will not be a problem in that regard."

Harrell was unable to take part in the team portion of practice this spring because of the arm. He also reported at 320 pounds after never having played at more than 305 at Tennessee, and admits the heavier weight probably was a mistake. He intends to reduce to 305.

"I think he's OK," co-defensive line coach Carl Hairston said. "He's just got to get in better football shape. He just hasn't done anything in a long time."

For his part, Harrell doesn't seem the least bit frustrated.

"Just talking to all the coaches and veteran players, they realize what I've gone through," he said. "Any time you're away from football for a year it's going to take awhile to get your legs up under you. Plus, it's my rookie year. I guess I'll know more next year how to prepare myself for training camp."

Harrell didn't participate in the sequence of eight conditioning runs last Friday, because he wasn't signed. But if he had, it's touch and go if he would have succeeded.

Gullickson guessed Harrell would have passed because of his fortitude.

"He's got a lot of pride," Gullickson said. "He would have been one of those guys who would have gutted it out."

The Packers have monitored Harrell's turns in practice. Even in a limited role, the flashes have been few and far between.

Is it unrealistic to think Harrell might be a dominant player this season?

"No, it's not unrealistic," Hairston said. "He's done some dominant things, but he just hasn't been able to do it on a consistent basis because of the condition he's in. He'll get there."

Defensive coordinator Bob Sanders said if Harrell kept pushing himself, he would be in much better shape within a few weeks. Harrell, in fact, went so far as to say he'd be able to survive 50 snaps on opening day Sept. 9 if necessary.

"We're going through two-a-days now," he said. "When the season comes, all this will slow down and you have a chance to get your legs. You're just getting a little peek of me now. Hopefully, when I do catch up, I'll be able to showcase myself."

Good practice
Incumbent kicker Dave Rayner made all 11 of his field-goal attempts against a rush Thursday morning, compared with nine of 11 for challenger Mason Crosby. The rookie missed from 39 and 48 yards.

According to Rayner, he has made 28 of 29 in team periods, and his miss was a block that was only partially his fault.

"That's the best I've hit the ball in camp, I'd say," Rayner said. "I'm going in every day focusing on Dave Rayner and how I kick. He's a good kicker. You don't get drafted unless you're a good kicker."

Crosby mis-hit a pair of kickoffs Tuesday night in a practice at City Stadium.

"Clearly, you put more credence into the game situation," coach Mike McCarthy said. "That will carry the most weight, but practice is important."

Last year, veteran Billy Cundiff had been more accurate on field goals than Rayner in practice, but on Aug. 17, it was Cundiff who was waived.

Injury list
McCarthy offered some description of the knee injury that running back Vernand Morency suffered five days earlier.

"The soreness is in his patella tendon," McCarthy said. "It's a knee strain. It could be two (weeks). It could be four."

Practice routine
McCarthy stuck to his schedule Thursday, giving half a dozen veterans the morning off, even though the team didn't practice at all Wednesday.

"We created criteria with the rest and recovery idea," he said. "We took the number of years played, six or more. A few guys were disappointed they weren't on the list."

Said GM Ted Thompson: "As we go through the evolution of training camp and the emphasis you put on the off-season, in not too short of a time two-a-days might be a thing of the past. It might be a morning practice for 2½ or three hours, then the rest meetings.

"It's a game of attrition sometimes, I know that. At the same time, there's a certain amount of work you must get in."
Top talk
Former Packers defensive end Willie Davis addressed the players Wednesday morning.

"One thing really stuck with me," quarterback Aaron Rodgers said. "He said, 'A few get what they want. Most get what they expect.' I thought that was pretty powerful.

"He basically said, 'If you expect greatness most of you will be able to achieve it if you put your mind to it.' He said if you expect to be an average person and an average team, you're probably going to be average."

[Freak Out]

Harrell can't get his ass on a bike and try and keep his weight down? A torn biceps does not keep you from walking or riding a stationary bike. How about walking up some hills or something. Sounds like a slack.

[Bretsky]

I do recall a few Robert Meachem digs when he came to Saints initial camp out of shape. Same deal applies to Harrell.

From the sounds of it he's about 15lbs over playing weight.

I'm sure he'll get it together eventually. But working through the arm injury you'd hope he'd be in better shape weight wise.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Meachem has played some football since last September though. Give the guy until end of camp, at least, before writing him off. Meachem was out of shape--with no injury to blame.

[Partial]

I am not at all worried about Harrell. Everything available on him says he has the heart of a champion and will work harder than his opposition. Those are the type of guys TT has drafted thus far which definitely a welcome change after seeing Sherman draft slacker after slacker based on their potential (James Lee, anyone?).

Get the fat boy in the pool for an hour after practice. Low impact, get his heart beating and get his body in shape. We don't want a guy that size doing sprints.

[wist43]

I'm not worried about Harrell's ability or his being in shape... my biggest concern wrt Harrell is injury.

[MJZiggy]

Harrell can't get his ass on a bike and try and keep his weight down? A torn biceps does not keep you from walking or riding a stationary bike. How about walking up some hills or something. Sounds like a slack.

From the way the quote read, I got the impression he was heavier intentionally...

[ND72]

Harrell can't get his ass on a bike and try and keep his weight down? A torn biceps does not keep you from walking or riding a stationary bike. How about walking up some hills or something. Sounds like a slack.

Harrell weighs 315 right now, and I read they expect him at 300 by the season. But they feel good that he's currently at 7% body fat. SEVEN PERCENT BODY FAT. I have 7% body fat in my left leg.

[PackerBlues]

7% body fat is impressive. But it really makes you wonder how he could be out of shape. He has plenty of time to improve his conditioning, and yet.......

Considering as how he was the first round pick, and that he was the last guy to sign, I would have thought that he would be looking to prove to everyone that he deserved to be a first round pick. Didnt he say something about how the Booing on draft day was motivation for him?

I am not bashing the guy, like I said, he has plenty of time to improve his conditioning. His current situation simply brings up questions as to his desire to play at a high level and to prove he was worthy of the faith Thompson put in him.

[run pMc]

I also got the impression he bulked up intentionally.
As for being in shape, I'm guessing there's only so much non-contact conditioning you can do to prepare for real practices and games. Riding a bike on the sidelines is very different from shoving 300lb guys out of your way while sprinting upfield. I'm not worried about the weight or conditioning...yet. What's much more troubling to me is that the article suggests he's not flashing much ability or dominance.

[Rastak]

7%? I highly doubt that. If he's 7% at his size I would be amazed. You'd walk around shirtless all the time....LOL.

Has a OL or DL ever been 7%?

[cheesner]

Notes: Harrell off to sluggish start
"That's the best I've hit the ball in camp, I'd say," Rayner said. "I'm going in every day focusing on Dave Rayner and how I kick. He's a good kicker. You don't get drafted unless you're a good kicker."
Cut Rayner now!

I don't care if he is the 2nd coming of jan Stenarud. Referring to yourself in the 3rd person is ample reason to cut someone.

I am now officially rooting for Crosby.

[dt2121]

If anyone was wondering it was reported on foxsports.com that Amobi Okoy (a DT a lot of people wanted and that was drafted ahead of Harrell) is also fighting the heat and his conditioning is on par with the reports we are hearing about Harrell. I think there is just an adjustment from to be made from college to the NFL and from student-athlete to working stiff. I think this runs truer with the big guys coming in. This is his job now and he was quoted already as saying he knows now what he needs to do to prepare for next year's training camp. So the lessons learned. He was also quoted as saying by opening day he would have no problem playing 50 snaps.

It has only been a couple of days these things will happen. Heck Grady and Gilbert had these same conditioning problems there whole careers and I doubt anyone is going to say they were not good or did nothing to help this team win ball games.

[CaliforniaCheez]

7%? I highly doubt that. If he's 7% at his size I would be amazed. You'd walk around shirtless all the time....LOL.

Has a OL or DL ever been 7%?

In an interview he said he weighed 320 at start of camp and he felt out of shape and wanted to get to 305. That would be almost 5% weight loss.

7% is high school kids. Anything under 10% is good. A highly trained WR might be 7% but NFL coaches don't want low mass linemen. Some fat helps them, a bit like Sumo wrestlers but not that extreme.

Perhaps a number was misquoted. 17% for him now and wanting to drop some might be more in line.

[Rastak]

7%? I highly doubt that. If he's 7% at his size I would be amazed. You'd walk around shirtless all the time....LOL.

Has a OL or DL ever been 7%?

In an interview he said he weighed 320 at start of camp and he felt out of shape and wanted to get to 305. That would be almost 5% weight loss.

7% is high school kids. Anything under 10% is good. A highly trained WR might be 7% but NFL coaches don't want low mass linemen. Some fat helps them, a bit like Sumo wrestlers but not that extreme.

Perhaps a number was misquoted. 17% for him now and wanting to drop some might be more in line.


Totally agree. 7% would be bodybuilder stuff at his size.

[Merlin]

I don't know how anyone cannot be concerned about it. These are supposed to be the world's best athletes. The coaching staff say he has a great work ethic which so far has proven to be all show on Harrell's part. Apparently he doesn't think he needed to work harder to prove himself after being selected in the first round with a questionable college career. I am not saying that's what he thinks. What I am saying is that by all signs, he blew off his preparedness. A torn biceps doesn't mean you can't condition the rest of your body. He should not be winded, in fact he should be eager and ready to go from day one.

I don't see how someone who has never played in the NFL, who has a long injury history in college and is coming off of a serious injury hasn't done everything they can to be game ready day one. He is saying all the right things but it doesn't appear he is doing them. Maybe his injury history is due to a poor work ethic with a lot of BS thrown in by Harrell. It's one thing to bamboozle a college coach, it's entirely another to try and get away with it in the NFL. I hope I am really wrong about this guy because I think he has a lot of potential.

[PaCkFan_n_MD]

I really hope we don’t regret not taking Nelson in a couple years.

[Partial]

7%? I highly doubt that. If he's 7% at his size I would be amazed. You'd walk around shirtless all the time....LOL.

Has a OL or DL ever been 7%?

Yeah, there is no way he is at 7%. 7% is bloody ripped and very hard to maintain. Most body builders maintain about 8% and cut down prior to a competition. None the less, you need to maintain a very rigid diet.

I think the numbers are always skewed. Driver is about 7-8% and they say he is at 3%.

[Carolina_Packer]

or Greg Olsen...although 16 would have been a reach for Olsen (I understand), however with as much red zone concern as we had, we needed someone who could create a matchup problem deep in enemy territory.

I think Harrell will be fine. With sites like this, with 24/7 coverage and with the fans high level of interest in all things Green Bay Packers, it can make it a bit of a microscope. Can you imagine about 40 years ago when Vince was running the show, finding out that some rookie was getting winded in practice? It's such a totally different time for the finances, media and for fan interest.

[MadScientist]

7%? I highly doubt that. If he's 7% at his size I would be amazed. You'd walk around shirtless all the time....LOL.

Has a OL or DL ever been 7%?

Well this guy might have been close.
http://i.cnn.net/si/si_online/covers/images/1989/0424_large.jpg

Of course he was also about 7% of a player.

[wist43]

Terrible memories of that draft...

The Friday b/4 that draft my girlfriend dumped me for a vacuum cleaner salesman... so I went out and tied one on, and of course, woke up in the drunk tank with a DUI to my credit.

To add insult to injury, there were 4 HOF'ers in that draft... and the Packers managed to side step all of 'em and draft the one bust.

I can look back and laugh at it all now... :lol: 8-)

[Partial]

7%? I highly doubt that. If he's 7% at his size I would be amazed. You'd walk around shirtless all the time....LOL.

Has a OL or DL ever been 7%?

Well this guy might have been close.
http://i.cnn.net/si/si_online/covers/images/1989/0424_large.jpg

Of course he was also about 7% of a player.

13-14%. Very muscular but not at all defined because he has a lot of fat over it. It could also be water bloat.

[Partial]

I don't know how anyone cannot be concerned about it. These are supposed to be the world's best athletes. The coaching staff say he has a great work ethic which so far has proven to be all show on Harrell's part. Apparently he doesn't think he needed to work harder to prove himself after being selected in the first round with a questionable college career. I am not saying that's what he thinks. What I am saying is that by all signs, he blew off his preparedness. A torn biceps doesn't mean you can't condition the rest of your body. He should not be winded, in fact he should be eager and ready to go from day one.

I don't see how someone who has never played in the NFL, who has a long injury history in college and is coming off of a serious injury hasn't done everything they can to be game ready day one. He is saying all the right things but it doesn't appear he is doing them. Maybe his injury history is due to a poor work ethic with a lot of BS thrown in by Harrell. It's one thing to bamboozle a college coach, it's entirely another to try and get away with it in the NFL. I hope I am really wrong about this guy because I think he has a lot of potential.

When you can't run you can't run.. Simple as that. Most people move their arms quite a bit when they run. They were holding him out of impact exercises such as that.

a 300 pounder being 15 lbs overweight is about the same as a 200 pounder being 10 pounds overweight. Happens all the time. He'll be an animal come regular season time. He was probably at 330 when he started and lost a bit of water weight.

[woodbuck27]

7%? I highly doubt that. If he's 7% at his size I would be amazed. You'd walk around shirtless all the time....LOL.

Has a OL or DL ever been 7%?

Yea maybe Donald Driver is that lean. We all wish we could have 7% body fat. That's extremely healthy.

[4and12to12and4]

As has been said here a million times, there is no way he is at 7%. Mike Tyson had 5% body fat. Those two bodies aren't even close to comparable. BTW, it doesn't matter, because Mike Tyson would've gotten thrown around like a ragdoll by NFL offensive linemen. Keep some fat, Harrell, you'll need it.

[Carolina_Packer]

Prime of their careers Brett Favre and Barry Sanders on Offense, and our mid-90's defense...it wouldn't have even been fair. Ah the fool's gold of steroids.

I too think Harrell will be fine. I agree about football shape. You can do non-contact conditioning, but until you are in contact/collision shape, you're probably going to suck some wind. Not surprising. I give him some slack, but it sure would be nice to have some production from him this year.

[BallHawk]

7%? I highly doubt that. If he's 7% at his size I would be amazed. You'd walk around shirtless all the time....LOL.

Has a OL or DL ever been 7%?

Yea maybe Donald Driver is that lean. We all wish we could have 7% body fat. That's extremely healthy.

Isn't Driver like 3-4% body fat?

[MJZiggy]

Why, yes. Yes he is. Hmmm...what were we talking about again?

[woodbuck27]

7%? I highly doubt that. If he's 7% at his size I would be amazed. You'd walk around shirtless all the time....LOL.

Has a OL or DL ever been 7%?

Yea maybe Donald Driver is that lean. We all wish we could have 7% body fat. That's extremely healthy.

Isn't Driver like 3-4% body fat?

He's lean.

Saw a pic of DD in TC last night and he looks more muscled (bigger) so far this season.

Here's lean ONLY:

http://graphics.jsonline.com/graphics/packer/img/news/aug07/tdriver0805.jpg

[Fritz]

Notes: Harrell off to sluggish start
"That's the best I've hit the ball in camp, I'd say," Rayner said. "I'm going in every day focusing on Dave Rayner and how I kick. He's a good kicker. You don't get drafted unless you're a good kicker."
Cut Rayner now!

I don't care if he is the 2nd coming of jan Stenarud. Referring to yourself in the 3rd person is ample reason to cut someone.

I am now officially rooting for Crosby.

Cheeser, Fritz loves guys who refer to themselves in the third person. It's hilarious. Unfortunately, Dave slipped - after referring to himself as Dave Rayner, he immediately followed it with "and how I kick." That young man needs a lesson on using the third person pronoun if he's going to go for the third-person reference.

Fritz will switch his allegiance to Crosby if Crosby can prove he can correctly refer to himself in the third person. In the meantime, Fritz hopes Dave practices the third person a little more.

[Partial]

7%? I highly doubt that. If he's 7% at his size I would be amazed. You'd walk around shirtless all the time....LOL.

Has a OL or DL ever been 7%?

Yea maybe Donald Driver is that lean. We all wish we could have 7% body fat. That's extremely healthy.

Isn't Driver like 3-4% body fat?

It has been reported as that but he is nowhere near that. That is impossible to maintain. Body builders don't even get like that lean for more than a day or two. Then when they eat anything containing salt or potassium they put on 10 lbs immediately.

Driver is about 7%. Look at JohnStoneFitness.com and you'll see what 7% looks like. Driver looks about the same but smaller.

[the_idle_threat]

Look at JohnStoneFitness.com and you'll see what 7% looks like.

Oh Geez ... the EC Rats are gonna be gone for a while ... :!: :lol:

[Partial]

Look at JohnStoneFitness.com and you'll see what 7% looks like.

Oh Geez ... the EC Rats are gonna be gone for a while ... :!: :lol:

:lol: I love to give the ladies a little pleasure in life. They might as well take in the eye candy. He's a good looking guy for 37 years old.

[KYPack]

All players on defense have to get in hitting shape. I don't care how good a condition you are in, until you start banging heads, you won't be ready to play.

The fat guys all keep a little weight on 'em, because some of it falls off early in camp.

Harrell will be further slowed by an inability to lift the heavy weights until that 'cep heals totally.

Be patient with the young guy, he'll be fine when he gets it all going.

[Bretsky]

All players on defense have to get in hitting shape. I don't care how good a condition you are in, until you start banging heads, you won't be ready to play.

The fat guys all keep a little weight on 'em, because some of it falls off early in camp.

Harrell will be further slowed by an inability to lift the heavy weights until that 'cep heals totally.

Be patient with the young guy, he'll be fine when he gets it all going.


That's what we are all praying for. Early reports add more question to how ready this guy is to heavily contribute in 07

[red]

yuck

i'm with freak out

an arm injury does not prevent you from riding an stationary bike

no excuse

[Bretsky]

yuck

i'm with freak out

an arm injury does not prevent you from riding an stationary bike

no excuse


completely agree

[HarveyWallbangers]

1) We don't know if it would or wouldn't.
2) Still wouldn't put him in football shape.

[Bretsky]

Maybe my memory serves me wrong, but I thought the medical guys on GB and TT said they expected 100% participation once the camp started and were holding him out in earlier camps so he could be 100% now

[KYPack]

All players on defense have to get in hitting shape. I don't care how good a condition you are in, until you start banging heads, you won't be ready to play.

The fat guys all keep a little weight on 'em, because some of it falls off early in camp.

Harrell will be further slowed by an inability to lift the heavy weights until that 'cep heals totally.

Be patient with the young guy, he'll be fine when he gets it all going.


That's what we are all praying for. Early reports add more question to how ready this guy is to heavily contribute in 07

B,

I dunno if you saw my comment in another thread (it might even be in this one) on film I saw on him a few weeks ago. We were hangin' at the lake in So KY. It's so far south, most of the lake is in Tennesee.

Local TV is real strange down there & not much to watch. After water skiin' all day, I sat down to nurse a tall Makers Mark & coke & watch the tube. Best show I could find was a U Tenn football show.

They were reviewing the DLine so I decided to watch and see if they spoke about Harrell. Did they ever! The kid that was replacing Harrell was flat out reverential about Justin Harrell The kid immediately said how tough it was to replace a guy who had the potential to be as good as Reggie White & the announcer quickly agreed that Harrell was one of the best DLine prospects in the last 30 years at UT.

They don't throw compliments like that loosely down there so I kept watching. Then they ran 4 or 5 minute of Harrell highlights. I really couldn't believe how eye popping a player he was. I basically had never heard of the guy til we drafted him. He absolutely destroyed anyone he was singeled up against. Both a run stuffer and a pass rusher, he dominated the OLines he played. Most of the time they double him with the center, but he's so active, he can split 'en pretty easy

I wanted to post again because I saw something in that tape package that may be a problem for this year. Harrell has a Reggie-like move on his bull rush. he likes to keep his one arm inside and get the other outside the guard. The, when he bulls 'em he pushed with that inside arm. & flings the guy on his ass. It reminded me of Reggies club, but was a clear indication that Harrell can be a special guy.

I couldn't help wonder if the kid is a year away, because a rehabbing bicep might really hurt the kid & prevent him from using a key move. I also wonder if he was hurt using that move?

[HarveyWallbangers]

I don't get the point. The arm may be 100% now. Doesn't mean he was able to workout all offseason. Definitely doesn't mean he'd be close to playing shape. He didn't play much last year, and he didn't practice at mini-camp or all offseason.

I think it's silly to write him off just because he's struggled the first week of camp. Is that really a surprise?

[Bretsky]

All players on defense have to get in hitting shape. I don't care how good a condition you are in, until you start banging heads, you won't be ready to play.

The fat guys all keep a little weight on 'em, because some of it falls off early in camp.

Harrell will be further slowed by an inability to lift the heavy weights until that 'cep heals totally.

Be patient with the young guy, he'll be fine when he gets it all going.


That's what we are all praying for. Early reports add more question to how ready this guy is to heavily contribute in 07

B,

I dunno if you saw my comment in another thread (it might even be in this one) on film I saw on him a few weeks ago. We were hangin' at the lake in So KY. It's so far south, most of the lake is in Tennesee.

Local TV is real strange down there & not much to watch. After water skiin' all day, I sat down to nurse a tall Makers Mark & coke & watch the tube. Best show I could find was a U Tenn football show.

They were reviewing the DLine so I decided to watch and see if they spoke about Harrell. Did they ever! The kid that was replacing Harrell was flat out reverential about Justin Harrell The kid immediately said how tough it was to replace a guy who had the potential to be as good as Reggie White & the announcer quickly agreed that Harrell was one of the best DLine prospects in the last 30 years at UT.

They don't throw compliments like that loosely down there so I kept watching. Then they ran 4 or 5 minute of Harrell highlights. I really couldn't believe how eye popping a player he was. I basically had never heard of the guy til we drafted him. He absolutely destroyed anyone he was singeled up against. Both a run stuffer and a pass rusher, he dominated the OLines he played. Most of the time they double him with the center, but he's so active, he can split 'en pretty easy

I wanted to post again because I saw something in that tape package that may be a problem for this year. Harrell has a Reggie-like move on his bull rush. he likes to keep his one arm inside and get the other outside the guard. The, when he bulls 'em he pushed with that inside arm. & flings the guy on his ass. It reminded me of Reggies club, but was a clear indication that Harrell can be a special guy.

I couldn't help wonder if the kid is a year away, because a rehabbing bicep might really hurt the kid & prevent him from using a key move. I also wonder if he was hurt using that move?

I missed that; interesting comments.
Thanks for posting them again.

With serious injuries like this year one often ends up being working through the injury and year two is when we see players 100%

[MJZiggy]

We were hangin' at the lake in So KY. It's so far south, most of the lake is in Tennesee.

Local TV is real strange down there & not much to watch. After water skiin' all day, I sat down to nurse a tall Makers Mark & coke & watch the tube.

You write this stuff just to torture me, don't you...

[KYPack]

We were hangin' at the lake in So KY. It's so far south, most of the lake is in Tennesee.

Local TV is real strange down there & not much to watch. After water skiin' all day, I sat down to nurse a tall Makers Mark & coke & watch the tube.

You write this stuff just to torture me, don't you...

You doubtin' my work ethic, Zig?

I was partyin' hard that week.

Why does it torture you?

[MJZiggy]

We've had discussions on Southern Kentucky and the state parks there....

[KYPack]

We've had discussions on Southern Kentucky and the state parks there....

Well, get ready to feel real tortured.

My neighbor is one of the top fishing guides in the state. His wife made him give up guiding. Next week he's taking me down to the headwaters of the Cumberland River. He assures me we will have our limit of 10 Rainbow and Brown Trout by 11 AM or so.

[MJZiggy]

Can I come?

[vince]

It seems like a lot of people are concluding that Harrell's injury will take him another year to overcome. From where is this conclusion being drawn?

Here's an excerpt from the following site about rehabilitating a surgically repaired biceps tendon: Internet Society of Orthopaedic Surgery and Trauma (http://www.orthogate.org/patient-education/elbow/distal-biceps-rupture.html)


Immediately after surgery, your surgeon may cast your elbow for up to six weeks. Some surgeons prefer to use a special range-of-motion brace with careful elbow motion starting within one to two weeks. When you start therapy, your first few sessions may involve ice and electrical stimulation treatments to help control pain and swelling from the surgery. Your therapist may also use massage and other types of hands-on treatments to ease muscle spasm and pain.

You will gradually start exercises to improvement movement in the forearm, elbow, and shoulder. You need to be careful to avoid doing too much, too quickly.

Exercises for the biceps muscle are avoided until at least four to six weeks after surgery. Your therapist may begin with light isometric strengthening exercises. These exercises work the biceps muscle without straining the healing tendon.

At about six weeks, you start doing more active strengthening. As you progress, your therapist will teach you exercises to strengthen and stabilize the muscles and joints of the wrist and hand, elbow, and shoulder. Other exercises will work your elbow in ways that are similar to your work tasks and sport activities. Your therapist will help you find ways to do your tasks that don't put too much stress on your elbow.

You may require therapy for two to three months. It generally takes four to six months to safely begin doing forceful biceps activity. Before your therapy sessions end, your therapist will teach you a number of ways to avoid future problems.
I see no reason to believe Harrell can't/won't be 100% effective this year. This is also an injury that has zero increased chance of reoccurring after successful repair and rehab. What don't I know about this situation?

[RashanGary]

Justin Harrell is going to take a year to develop becuase he's a college DT heading into the NFL. No DT's that I am aware of in the last 10 years came out of the gates as probowlers or even close. He's going to need a year like every other rookie DT. I'll bet Amobe Okoye, a top 10 pick, doesn't set the NFL on fire either.

[Packnut]

Justin Harrell is going to take a year to develop becuase he's a college DT heading into the NFL. No DT's that I am aware of in the last 10 years came out of the gates as probowlers or even close. He's going to need a year like every other rookie DT. I'll bet Amobe Okoye, a top 10 pick, doesn't set the NFL on fire either.


And you would win that bet.

[vince]

I don't think anyone's expecting him to make the Pro Bowl as a rookie, and obviously, he'll become more effective as he gains experience playing against the stronger and faster NFL linemen. That goes without saying. And given that he'll rotate with the deepest group on the team, he'll likely have relatively low stat production. My question is about his health.

Last year, Corey Williams, a 4th year pro, who played in all 16 games, and the player with whom he's expected to share time and rotate, had 34 total tackles last year, according to NFL.com. That's the kind of production that I think we should expect from a first round draft choice with the skills, size and strength of Justin Harrell.

If he's on the field and healthy, he has the ability to contribute to the team's run-stopping effectiveness - rookie or not. Plugging holes, attracting double teams, opening up the linebackers, and getting some stops up the middle. If he's effective, teams may find they have a hard time running up the middle on Harrell and Pickett.

Again, I don't expect him to be a pro bowler, but I do expect him to contribute to the team's success, predominantly against the run this year- again, if he's healthy - which as far as I can tell, he should be.

If he does that, he'll serve an important role on this team.

[Lurker64]

Last year, Corey Williams, a 4th year pro, who played in all 16 games, and the player with whom he's expected to share time and rotate, had 34 total tackles last year, according to NFL.com. That's the kind of production that I think we should expect from a first round draft choice with the skills, size and strength of Justin Harrell.

Similarly, last year's highest drafted DT, (Haloti Ngata who went 12th to Baltimore), managed 13 tackles, 18 assists, 1 sack, and 1 INT. Expecting dramatically more from Harell who was drafted 4 spots lower and is recovering from an injury, is probably unreasonable.

On the other hand, we judge DTs less on their ability to rack up stats, and more on their abilities to enable the defense. If Harrell can hold the point, and keep blockers off of LBs, he'll be a success no matter how few tackles he gets.

On the third hand, didn't the kerfluffle with A.J. last year teach us to not get too worked up about what out number one draft picks do in training camp anyway?

[red]

I don't think anyone's expecting him to make the Pro Bowl as a rookie

my expectations of him are so low that i would just be happy if he isn't a complete bust and out of the league in 4 years

didn't big gil play a year with that same injury

and didn't that same injury have something to do with his career ending?

[woodbuck27]

I don't think anyone's expecting him to make the Pro Bowl as a rookie, and obviously, he'll become more effective as he gains experience playing against the stronger and faster NFL linemen. That goes without saying. And given that he'll rotate with the deepest group on the team, he'll likely have relatively low stat production. My question is about his health.

Last year, Corey Williams, a 4th year pro, who played in all 16 games, and the player with whom he's expected to share time and rotate, had 34 total tackles last year, according to NFL.com. That's the kind of production that I think we should expect from a first round draft choice with the skills, size and strength of Justin Harrell.

If he's on the field and healthy, he has the ability to contribute to the team's run-stopping effectiveness - rookie or not. Plugging holes, attracting double teams, opening up the linebackers, and getting some stops up the middle. If he's effective, teams may find they have a hard time running up the middle on Harrell and Pickett.

Again, I don't expect him to be a pro bowler, but I do expect him to contribute to the team's success, predominantly against the run this year- again, if he's healthy - which as far as I can tell, he should be.

If he does that, he'll serve an important role on this team.

It's incumbant being a first round pick that Justin Harrerll gets lots of rep's.

We'll get an ample opportunity to see what he brings to the table this season.

We all surely hope he will be a valuable piece of our 'D' this season and in the future. It's all up to Justin Harrell, provided the HC and coaching staff use some common sense with this young DT.

[RashanGary]

Last year, Corey Williams, a 4th year pro, who played in all 16 games, and the player with whom he's expected to share time and rotate, had 34 total tackles last year, according to NFL.com. That's the kind of production that I think we should expect from a first round draft choice with the skills, size and strength of Justin Harrell.

Similarly, last year's highest drafted DT, (Haloti Ngata who went 12th to Baltimore), managed 13 tackles, 18 assists, 1 sack, and 1 INT. Expecting dramatically more from Harell who was drafted 4 spots lower and is recovering from an injury, is probably unreasonable.

On the other hand, we judge DTs less on their ability to rack up stats, and more on their abilities to enable the defense. If Harrell can hold the point, and keep blockers off of LBs, he'll be a success no matter how few tackles he gets.

On the third hand, didn't the kerfluffle with A.J. last year teach us to not get too worked up about what out number one draft picks do in training camp anyway?

Nice comparison. I like Ngata a lot but I know DT's just take time to adjust. It's the way has been, the way it is and the way it will but until drugs come out that allow 21 and 22 year olds to be as strong as 26 and 27 year olds.

[Terry]

They don't throw compliments like that loosely down there so I kept watching. Then they ran 4 or 5 minute of Harrell highlights. I really couldn't believe how eye popping a player he was. I basically had never heard of the guy til we drafted him. He absolutely destroyed anyone he was singeled up against. Both a run stuffer and a pass rusher, he dominated the OLines he played. Most of the time they double him with the center, but he's so active, he can split 'en pretty easy

Unfortunately, those highlights don't seem to be on YouTube, or at least I can't find them. If anyone knows where those clips can be seen on the internet, please post a link. Thanks in advance.

[TennesseePackerBacker]

I don't think anyone's expecting him to make the Pro Bowl as a rookie

my expectations of him are so low that i would just be happy if he isn't a complete bust and out of the league in 4 years

didn't big gil play a year with that same injury

and didn't that same injury have something to do with his career ending?

wow, how can your expectations be so low? Maybe because you didn't read about him being picked much in every draft mag? or it could be that you don't watch much SEC football(such a shame).

They don't just give out the #92 at the University of Tennessee, as it's been stated a hundred times on this board, Harrell was and is probably the last player to wear #92 there. He was a complete team leader, workout warrior, etc. Had he had a full senior year he would've been a top 10 pick.

Maybe my expectations are just too high, but with the kind of heart this kid has shown(played the florida game with a torn biceps muscle), combined with his work ethic, size, strength, I don't see how we missed. At the very least we have a #2/#3 6'4" 310lb. tackle who is known for both run stopping and getting effective pass rush.

[Freak Out]

It is nice to hear some comments from the Tennessee Volunteers who post here at PackerRats as to what we can expect from our #1 pick.

[KYPack]

They don't throw compliments like that loosely down there so I kept watching. Then they ran 4 or 5 minute of Harrell highlights. I really couldn't believe how eye popping a player he was. I basically had never heard of the guy til we drafted him. He absolutely destroyed anyone he was singeled up against. Both a run stuffer and a pass rusher, he dominated the OLines he played. Most of the time they double him with the center, but he's so active, he can split 'en pretty easy

Unfortunately, those highlights don't seem to be on YouTube, or at least I can't find them. If anyone knows where those clips can be seen on the internet, please post a link. Thanks in advance.

They put local yokel college football shows on YouTube?

I just watch what I see come across the tube, meself.

[RashanGary]

If you go down to the draft board and across from each players name you'll see a little camera. Click on the camera across from Harrells name and you have a decent little video.

http://sports.yahoo.com/s/nfldraft

[The Leaper]

didn't big gil play a year with that same injury

and didn't that same injury have something to do with his career ending?

I think Gilbert's propensity to devour hamburgers by the dozen and not maintain a strong workout routine in the offseason had more to do with his early career exit than any arm injury.

[woodbuck27]

If you go down to the draft board and across from each players name you'll see a little camera. Click on the camera across from Harrells name and you have a decent little video.

http://sports.yahoo.com/s/nfldraft

OK.

Excellent size and quickness for a big man. Good lateral movement and decent feet.

He uses his hands v. well to protect against the pass. He's in the play or stays with it both straight ahead and laterally (and he's pumped) which demonstrates leadership to me. Harrell was projected at #29 and went to us at #16.

PACKERRATS (if your interested) compare Justin Harrell with:

Link:

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/prospects?rank_type=13

My humble observations of each prospect are within brackets.

** #91 Amobi Okoye ( v. athletic and extreme potential being so young) - Projected at #18 and went 10th to Houston.

** #80 Alan Branch ( a monster at 6'-6" and 330 lbs., a huge man with it all ) - Projected at #16 and slipped to #33 to Arizona.

Personally, I really like the way Alan Branch plays his position. He's on the depth chart at #2 LDT behind #1 LDT Gabe Watson, Arizona Cardinals.

** #90 Turk McBride ( at 6'-4" 274 lbs. plays v. quick like a DE ). Turk McBride was projected ? and went #54 to KC.

** #13 Jay Alford ( at 6'-3" and 288 lbs. he's also v. athletic, hard hitting with good penetration and sack ability. He's all there.) Jay Alford was projected ? and went #81 to the NY Giants

** #72 Tank Tyler (v.quick and strong with loads of attitude) - Projected at #55 and Tank Tyler went #82 to KC.

** #52 Brandon MeBane (great speed, penetration and toughness). Projected at #74 and Brandon McBane went #85 to Seattle.

[woodbuck27]

Is anyone aware why DT Alan Branch (drafted by Arizona) slipped to the top of the second round?

He was projected to go midway through the first round and first among DT's.

[Lurker64]

Is anyone aware why DT Alan Branch (drafted by Arizona) slipped to the top of the second round?

He was projected to go midway through the first round and first among DT's.

I think he slipped because he's lazy, takes plays off, telegraphs to the opposing team when he's not trying very hard, and can't deal with a double-team at all. Excellent physical tools, but his motor is highly questionable. He's the sort of player whose highlight film is great, but if you watch a lot of his game film you see a lot of things you don't like on those non-highlight plays.

[woodbuck27]

Is anyone aware why DT Alan Branch (drafted by Arizona) slipped to the top of the second round?

He was projected to go midway through the first round and first among DT's.

I think he slipped because he's lazy, takes plays off, telegraphs to the opposing team when he's not trying very hard, and can't deal with a double-team at all. Excellent physical tools, but his motor is highly questionable. He's the sort of player whose highlight film is great, but if you watch a lot of his game film you see a lot of things you don't like on those non-highlight plays.

DAM !

His highlight video really showcases him.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Is anyone aware why DT Alan Branch (drafted by Arizona) slipped to the top of the second round?

He was projected to go midway through the first round and first among DT's.

It happens in every draft to numerous players, and then the so-called experts think a guy is a steal or reach based on the other so-called experts bored. Our resident Michigan fan thinks Branch is a lazy turd.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Packers: Harrell making progress
By JASON WILDE

GREEN BAY — A.J. Hawk was in New York City for the NFL draft this April — got to be a supportive brother-in-law, you know — when the Green Bay Packers went on the clock with the 16th overall pick.

But with Notre Dame quarterback Brady Quinn — the younger brother of Hawk's wife, Laura — available, the Packers took Tennessee defensive tackle Justin Harrell — much to the disappointment of the Quinn clan, but much to the delight of Hawk, who knew another wide-body in the middle of the defensive line would only make his job at linebacker easier.

Unlike many Packers fans, who reacted with a chorus of who?s and boos, Hawk had seen a pre-draft feature on Harrell while waiting for a piece on Quinn on the same show, so he knew all about Harrell, who'd was coming off a ruptured biceps that had ended his senior season after three games.

"I'd actually seen Justin's whole story, so when they picked him, I remembered that right off the bat and was glad," Hawk recalled between training-camp practices Tuesday. "I thought, 'That's good for us."'

And 11 days into training camp, Hawk's opinion hasn't changed, despite Harrell's slow start. After all, Hawk can identify, having gone through the same thing last year, when he found that meeting the expectations of being the No. 5 overall pick right out of the gate impossible to do.

"He's in an almost more difficult spot than I was, because he's a D-lineman. You don't notice interior D-linemen a lot," Hawk said. " So you can't judge him, especially a week into camp."

Maybe not, but Harrell is the first to admit — even before straight-talking defensive tackles coach Robert Nunn — that he didn't get off to the best of starts. After being held out of 11-on-11 periods during minicamps and organized team activity practices this offseason, he struggled in team periods early in camp and may not have passed the pre-camp conditioning test had he signed in time to participate in it.

"When you get tired, you get lazy, so I'm trying to get my conditioning level back up and just being able to do it every play," Harrell said. "There's a lot of things I need to work on, and the more I do it, the better I'll get at it. This whole defensive technique is totally different from what I played in college. So it's all new to me. It's coming along slowly, but it's coming."

Even general manager Ted Thompson, who goes out of his way to avoid criticizing players, admitted he ``thought (Harrell) was a little out of shape coming in, (but) he seems to be rounding into (form),'' while Nunn said Harrell's play has improved in direct proportion to his fitness level.

"He's behind, there's no question about that. And he knows that. Being out a year has really set him back. But he's showing some really positive signs the last few days," Nunn said after Tuesday morning's practice. "He's certainly come back, and we're giving him more reps now because he's starting to get in shape. He's going to be fine. We're encouraged."

Coach Mike McCarthy said he is "not concerned," either, because Harrell "has a very good work ethic, so I don't foresee it being a problem. As far as what's going to happen, only time will tell."

Actually, Saturday night's preseason opener at Pittsburgh should tell a lot. The Packers have a glut of defensive tackles — Ryan Pickett, Corey Williams, Johnny Jolly, Colin Cole and Harrell are all worthy of the final 53-man roster — and at this point, Harrell is behind the first four.

A strong performance against the Steelers would prove that he really is progressing and ease everyone's minds, including Harrell's.

"It's going to come along. I can't worry about what people are expecting from me," Harrell said. "But I've definitely got a lot of work to do to get to the level where I need to be.

"But for my first week, getting my legs under me, getting my conditioning better than what it was the first day, you can really see the difference. Compared to the first day, when I was dragging and barely made it through practice, it's good. It's coming along."

[The Leaper]

Harrell had a couple very nice plays in the scrimmage. He stuffed a couple runs, and had a nice pass deflection when he just bullrushed right over whatever OL guy was in front of him.

Perhaps he is a guy who plays better than he practices. I'm sure he's rusty after virtually a year off the field. He has tremendous physical potential and likely will become a solid player in this league. Most comments regarding his work ethic and attitude are very positive...and I remember a lot of people moaning about how poor Hawk looked in camp at times last year.

They aren't moaning now...and I'm guessing they won't be moaning about Harrell this time next year either.

[HarveyWallbangers]

From JSO:


Harrell had his best day thus far in one-on-one pass rush drills. He won his first three turns, slipping Palmer with a quick inside move and then beating rookie free agent Pat Murray with a bull rush and a rip move.

Jenkins sounds like he's having a helluva camp.


Defensive end Cullen Jenkins continues to dominate during the pass rush drills. He blew past guard Daryn Colledge on one turn and then drew what arguably would have been a holding penalty on another one.

[Partial]

From JSO:


Harrell had his best day thus far in one-on-one pass rush drills. He won his first three turns, slipping Palmer with a quick inside move and then beating rookie free agent Pat Murray with a bull rush and a rip move.

Jenkins sounds like he's having a helluva camp.


Defensive end Cullen Jenkins continues to dominate during the pass rush drills. He blew past guard Daryn Colledge on one turn and then drew what arguably would have been a holding penalty on another one.


Jenkins was an animal in the scrimmage. I think the defensive line is going to be one of the best in the business.

[RashanGary]

It's good to hear Harrell is improving. I think how he plays in the last preseason game will be a good indicator for what we can expect. It takes a little bit to get back in shape and to adjust to a lot of new techniques. He'll probably steadily improve over the course of the season as well, but I don't expect a world beater as a rookie. A good contributor would be very nice for this defense. Something better than Cole is all I'm hoping for as a rookie.

[HarveyWallbangers]

This is a fair article, I think. It was mentioned before camp that this type of injury takes a lot of strength away from a player and it takes time to build that back up. I wonder if that's part of the problem, where his strength is at, and how long before he's back at full strength. Anyways. I'm sure this will turn into we should have draft Greg Olsen or Robert Meachem over Harrell thread by the anti-Thompson crowd.


Jury's still out on Harrell
By Tom Pelissero

By the time Justin Harrell brought down Jacksonville's D.D. Terry on Thursday night, more than 55 minutes of game time had elapsed and the Green Bay Packers had all but cleared their bench.

The play encapsulated the potential the Packers saw in Harrell when they selected him 16th overall in April's NFL draft. The 6-foot-4, 310-pound defensive tackle knocked back guard Tuten Reyes from the line of scrimmage, then kept Reyes engaged as he reached out his free arm to haul down Terry for a 1-yard loss, with assistance from safety Charlie Peprah.

Yet the timing — in mop-up duty, against a third-string guard and a fifth-string running back, surrounded by reserves and players fighting to avoid the waiver wire — is the caveat that has marked each successful moment in Harrell's preseason.

He's spent practices with the scout team and games with the practice-squad sect. He's struggled in one-on-one drills and hasn't cracked the primary rotation, all the while taking 25 to 30 percent more reps than any other defensive tackle as he tries to play himself into football shape after nearly a year on the sideline.

Recent history shows defensive tackles sometimes need a little more time to develop into starters than players at other positions. But real games start two weeks from today, and there's little reason — barring an injury or trade involving Ryan Pickett, Corey Williams, Colin Cole or Johnny Jolly — to believe the Packers could justify having their first-round pick in uniform Sept. 9 against Philadelphia.

"That's a pretty good first-four rotation," General Manager Ted Thompson said last week. "But Justin's doing OK. I know there's a lot of speculation on No. 1 picks, and people saying, 'Well, what about this? What about this?'

"I think he's going to be a fine player, and I'm sure he would probably like to have a little more success. But he's had his moments in preseason games. But again, that's part of being a rookie, too, is kind of learning the speed of the game and learning the violence that's in there."

From 2002 to 2006, teams drafted 19 players as defensive tackles in the first round. Only seven (36.8 percent) started at least half their teams' games as rookies, but 12 of 16 (75 percent) who have played multiple seasons were starters in Year 2.

There have been busts — University of Wisconsin product Wendell Bryant (12th in 2002 to Arizona) and Johnathan Sullivan (sixth in 2003 to New Orleans) had off-the-field issues and are out of the league — but the majority have been serviceable or better. Minnesota's Kevin Williams (ninth in 2003) and Chicago's Tommie Harris (14th in 2004) have been selected to multiple Pro Bowls.

Amobi Okoye, the 10th overall pick by the Houston Texans, was the only other defensive tackle taken in the first round this year. Okoye's readiness for NFL competition has been questioned as well, but he isn't coming off a major injury like Harrell, who missed all but three games in his senior season at the University of Tennessee because of a ruptured biceps tendon in his left arm.

Harrell sat out contact drills in both minicamps and organized team activity practices as a precaution. So the past month, particularly the first 10 days of training camp, has been dedicated to regaining stamina, adjusting to his increased weight — 310 pounds, up from 300 in college — lowering his pad level and acclimating to the speed of the NFL.

"He's a little bit behind, and I tell him that," defensive tackles coach Robert Nunn said before the Jacksonville game. "He's taken a lot of practice reps, which I know his legs are not under him by no means, and so that's been a factor. Once he gets to slow down a little bit and get his legs underneath him, that's going to help him that much more. But right now, we don't have that luxury of slowing him down."

Coaches felt Harrell played well in roughly two dozen snaps in the preseason opener at Pittsburgh, in which he registered three tackles and sacked third-string quarterback Brian St. Pierre. But he left that game early because of fatigue — forcing an offensive lineman, Travis Leffew, to take his place the final series — and was less effective Aug. 18 against Seattle, a game in which he played more than 40 snaps and assisted on only one tackle.

"He's got to learn from that," Nunn said. "He's got to play when he's tired. He's got to get in a good stance when he's tired. He's got to play fast with his hands when he's tired. He's got to do all those things, so that's part of the learning process of being a rookie. But he's steadily getting better."

Harrell's other notable play Thursday was in the third quarter, when he got two hands in the face of Jaguars quarterback Byron Leftwich. For the most part, though, Harrell blended in during his roughly two dozen plays from scrimmage, double-teamed a handful of times but often stood up one-on-one.

Harrell has been listed since before training camp as the starter next to the seventh-year veteran Pickett, but Williams has started all three games, with Cole and Jolly rotating in regularly. Starting end Cullen Jenkins also moves inside in certain situations, leaving little room for Harrell with the front line.

Each of the players in front of Harrell can verify the difficulty of getting into the lineup as rookies. None of them started a game in their first year out of college, and Cole and Jenkins didn't even appear in one.

Then again, none of those players entered the NFL under the scrutiny that comes with being a first-round pick.

Asked whether he'd be OK with Harrell not dressing for the season opener, Thompson hesitated before saying, "I suppose. I guess it's happened before."

The last time it happened in Green Bay was 2001, when defensive end Jamal Reynolds was selected 10th overall, a pick the Packers acquired by trading quarterback Matt Hasselbeck to the Seattle Seahawks — where Thompson was vice president of football operations.

Reynolds sat out the season's first 11 games. He totaled three sacks in three seasons before the Packers cut him, cementing his status as one of the biggest draft busts in team history.

Praising Harrell's coachability and steady improvement, Packers coaches maintain Harrell will make a far more positive impact.

Perhaps sooner than his limited preseason role makes it seem.

"He's just got a lot of areas he's got to come on in," Nunn said. "I talk to him at least every other day, but probably every day about it. I think he will definitely be contributing early in the season."

[Bretsky]

This is a fair article, I think. It was mentioned before camp that this type of injury takes a lot of strength away from a player and it takes time to build that back up. I wonder if that's part of the problem, where his strength is at, and how long before he's back at full strength. Anyways. I'm sure this will turn into we should have draft Greg Olsen or Robert Meachem over Harrell thread by the anti-Thompson crowd.


Jury's still out on Harrell
By Tom Pelissero

By the time Justin Harrell brought down Jacksonville's D.D. Terry on Thursday night, more than 55 minutes of game time had elapsed and the Green Bay Packers had all but cleared their bench.

The play encapsulated the potential the Packers saw in Harrell when they selected him 16th overall in April's NFL draft. The 6-foot-4, 310-pound defensive tackle knocked back guard Tuten Reyes from the line of scrimmage, then kept Reyes engaged as he reached out his free arm to haul down Terry for a 1-yard loss, with assistance from safety Charlie Peprah.

Yet the timing — in mop-up duty, against a third-string guard and a fifth-string running back, surrounded by reserves and players fighting to avoid the waiver wire — is the caveat that has marked each successful moment in Harrell's preseason.

He's spent practices with the scout team and games with the practice-squad sect. He's struggled in one-on-one drills and hasn't cracked the primary rotation, all the while taking 25 to 30 percent more reps than any other defensive tackle as he tries to play himself into football shape after nearly a year on the sideline.

Recent history shows defensive tackles sometimes need a little more time to develop into starters than players at other positions. But real games start two weeks from today, and there's little reason — barring an injury or trade involving Ryan Pickett, Corey Williams, Colin Cole or Johnny Jolly — to believe the Packers could justify having their first-round pick in uniform Sept. 9 against Philadelphia.

"That's a pretty good first-four rotation," General Manager Ted Thompson said last week. "But Justin's doing OK. I know there's a lot of speculation on No. 1 picks, and people saying, 'Well, what about this? What about this?'

"I think he's going to be a fine player, and I'm sure he would probably like to have a little more success. But he's had his moments in preseason games. But again, that's part of being a rookie, too, is kind of learning the speed of the game and learning the violence that's in there."

From 2002 to 2006, teams drafted 19 players as defensive tackles in the first round. Only seven (36.8 percent) started at least half their teams' games as rookies, but 12 of 16 (75 percent) who have played multiple seasons were starters in Year 2.

There have been busts — University of Wisconsin product Wendell Bryant (12th in 2002 to Arizona) and Johnathan Sullivan (sixth in 2003 to New Orleans) had off-the-field issues and are out of the league — but the majority have been serviceable or better. Minnesota's Kevin Williams (ninth in 2003) and Chicago's Tommie Harris (14th in 2004) have been selected to multiple Pro Bowls.

Amobi Okoye, the 10th overall pick by the Houston Texans, was the only other defensive tackle taken in the first round this year. Okoye's readiness for NFL competition has been questioned as well, but he isn't coming off a major injury like Harrell, who missed all but three games in his senior season at the University of Tennessee because of a ruptured biceps tendon in his left arm.

Harrell sat out contact drills in both minicamps and organized team activity practices as a precaution. So the past month, particularly the first 10 days of training camp, has been dedicated to regaining stamina, adjusting to his increased weight — 310 pounds, up from 300 in college — lowering his pad level and acclimating to the speed of the NFL.

"He's a little bit behind, and I tell him that," defensive tackles coach Robert Nunn said before the Jacksonville game. "He's taken a lot of practice reps, which I know his legs are not under him by no means, and so that's been a factor. Once he gets to slow down a little bit and get his legs underneath him, that's going to help him that much more. But right now, we don't have that luxury of slowing him down."

Coaches felt Harrell played well in roughly two dozen snaps in the preseason opener at Pittsburgh, in which he registered three tackles and sacked third-string quarterback Brian St. Pierre. But he left that game early because of fatigue — forcing an offensive lineman, Travis Leffew, to take his place the final series — and was less effective Aug. 18 against Seattle, a game in which he played more than 40 snaps and assisted on only one tackle.

"He's got to learn from that," Nunn said. "He's got to play when he's tired. He's got to get in a good stance when he's tired. He's got to play fast with his hands when he's tired. He's got to do all those things, so that's part of the learning process of being a rookie. But he's steadily getting better."

Harrell's other notable play Thursday was in the third quarter, when he got two hands in the face of Jaguars quarterback Byron Leftwich. For the most part, though, Harrell blended in during his roughly two dozen plays from scrimmage, double-teamed a handful of times but often stood up one-on-one.

Harrell has been listed since before training camp as the starter next to the seventh-year veteran Pickett, but Williams has started all three games, with Cole and Jolly rotating in regularly. Starting end Cullen Jenkins also moves inside in certain situations, leaving little room for Harrell with the front line.

Each of the players in front of Harrell can verify the difficulty of getting into the lineup as rookies. None of them started a game in their first year out of college, and Cole and Jenkins didn't even appear in one.

Then again, none of those players entered the NFL under the scrutiny that comes with being a first-round pick.

Asked whether he'd be OK with Harrell not dressing for the season opener, Thompson hesitated before saying, "I suppose. I guess it's happened before."

The last time it happened in Green Bay was 2001, when defensive end Jamal Reynolds was selected 10th overall, a pick the Packers acquired by trading quarterback Matt Hasselbeck to the Seattle Seahawks — where Thompson was vice president of football operations.

Reynolds sat out the season's first 11 games. He totaled three sacks in three seasons before the Packers cut him, cementing his status as one of the biggest draft busts in team history.

Praising Harrell's coachability and steady improvement, Packers coaches maintain Harrell will make a far more positive impact.

Perhaps sooner than his limited preseason role makes it seem.

"He's just got a lot of areas he's got to come on in," Nunn said. "I talk to him at least every other day, but probably every day about it. I think he will definitely be contributing early in the season."



No we should have traded the pick down 15 spots to pick up a top 12 pick from the Cleveland Browns next year :wink: :lol:

[Joemailman]

So now people will start criticizing TT because he wasn't willing to trade down in the draft? :roll:

As the article states, most DT's drafted in the 1st round do not become starters their rookie year, but do become starters their 2nd year. If Harrell starts to have more and more impact as this season wears on, he should be right on target to assume a starting role in 2008.

[Carolina_Packer]

So, what will Harrell's status be this fall?

Will he dress most games?

Will he be inactive most games?

If he dresses, how many snaps will he see?

Will he make a modest impact, an average impact or a significant impact?

With our DT position being strong, I'm happy to have him rest up and learn, unlike Brandon Jackson who is being thrown into the fire. But, I guess, who wouldn't love the opportunity he's been given?