The Official Race Thread

[Little Whiskey]

Okay, football season hasn't started, the draft is over, lets talk Nascar!!

Sunday's race has been rained out, so they are racing right now. Wisconsin's own Matt Kenseth, is now leading. Sounds like an early wreak has taken out some good cars. Newman, Martin, Kahne.

if you want to listen on the internet, here is a site to log on to: [/url]www.sportsradio910.com you have to register, but that only takes a minute.

[Little Whiskey]

jr and stewart just involved in a spin. doesn't sound like it is too serious, for stewart. damn.....

[Little Whiskey]

kenseth finishes 6th, while Jimmie Johnson wins Talledaga. Jr. blows up with less than 50 laps to go. Kenseth will lose the points lead to Johnson.


thanks for talking nascar with me, Whiskey!!




no problem, maybe we can do it again next week, LW




sure thing, Whiskey

[HarveyWallbangers]

Kenseth took 6th, huh? That's a solid showing for him at Talledega. I smell a championship.

[Little Whiskey]

welcome to the party Harv, a little late though.

I agree he is doing very well. very similar to his championship season.


good news, gordon finishes 15!!!

[Joemailman]

When I saw the title of this thread, I thought Mobb had joined us. :wink:

[Charles Woodson]

Nascar makes my head and tummy hurt. I mean how can u watch a car go for 50 mill. laps. anyways its 24 time

[GBRulz]

When I saw the title of this thread, I thought Mobb had joined us. :wink:

LOL, either that or all the marches going on today about that immigrant law

[MJZiggy]

I thought there was supposed to be a boycott today, but they sure weren't boycotting where I was shopping.

[Little Whiskey]

ladies, this is a thread devoted to Nascar, not race baiting!! :mrgreen:

nick, you ask the question, " how can youhow can u watch a car go for 50 mill laps?" well i ask you, how can you watch 22 guys playing keep away for 3 hrs?" same thing, once you understand the sport you will start to appreciate it.

ask a question i will try to explain.

[Little Whiskey]

this past weekend the cup cars traveled to Richmond to race under the lights. After having a car that looked like it could compete for the win, Kenseth rear rotor fell off and after he ran it over, it punched a hole in the oil pan. Needless to say he didn't finish very well. The 38th place finish dropped him a spot in the overall standings to third. Dale Jr. battled rookie Denny Hamlin for the win. I cannot say much more about the race, since after Kenseth's early exit i decided to watch something else. (actually the wife had been nagging me to watch a movie with her.

Next week the make a stop at the track too tough to tame. Darlington. This track is egg shapped and is as hard on the tires as it is on the drivers. by the conclusion of the race most cars will be wearing the famous "darlington stripe" since the tight racing causes many-a-driver to drift up and scrape the outside retaining wall. Should be a great race, be sure to tune in.

[Little Whiskey]

LW, when are you going to post your race update?



Sorry, whiskey i've been shirking my responsiblitly to all the race fans here at pack rats. so here is the short and sweet of sat. darlington race.

Greg biffle won the dodge charger 500 after leading the most laps. The final lap could have been more interesting if the lapped car of Ken Schrader hadn't have gotten in Jeff Gordon's way in the last turn. Wisconsin's own (and personal favorite) matt kenseth finished third. Kenseth had a good car most of the night and his quick pitstops kept him up front most of the night. He now trails tony stewart by 1 point in the overall point standings.

Next week is the All Star event a Lowes motor speedway. It is a race for a million bucks. The only place that counts is first, bring back the checkers or the wrecker!! Should be a great race.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Little Whiskey,

I have a question for you. Why doesn't Nascar rotate the 10 Cup races at the end of the year? It seems like if those 10 favor a race team, they will always favor a race team. I'd like to see them mix it up each year and throw some new races in there.

[Little Whiskey]

I guess i don't have to quote you harv, since you are the only other poster to EVER post on my race thread. :mrgreen:

I think the reason nascar doesn't rotate the final ten is two fold. first they have a pretty good mix of tracks in the last ten races. shorttracks, superspeedway, and the 1.5 milers. so it already lends itself to the driver who is best at a variety of tracks. (the only type track excluded is the road course. however they only race at two of those per year. more of a novelty). the second reason is scheduling. every year the dates are pretty much the same. they run the same schedule. it causes alot of uproar when they decide to change a date. fans don't like it. Alot of scheduling has to do with climate. They don't race indoors, and remember they start the season in feb. can you imagine racing MI or ILL in Feb, or March??

[FavreChild]

LW, you'd be very proud of ol' FC. I spent the day yesterday at the Milwaukee Mile for Marlboro's Racing School.

After signing about a bazillion waivers, we got to ride shotgun with the drivers on three different tracks:

1) Took a couple of laps in the IROC around the oval
2) Rode the Panoz GTS around the road course
3) Went DRIFTING with the Mustangs

It was pretty freakin' awesome! And hot as hell in those racing suits. Now that I have a much better appreciating for racing, perhaps I will post here in the race thread again sometime...
:cool:

[Little Whiskey]

wow, we are now up to 3!!!


I've always wanted to do that FC. sounds like it would be a blast. the problem is $$$$. can i ask what it cost for you to go?


now to task at hand. we need to find you a driver to root for. From what i know about you from the forums. i might suggest Jamie McMurray. He drive the #26. He is sponserd by Crown Royal/Sharpie/Rubbermaid. he is also one of the prettyboys of the racing. So i think he meets EC and Alcohol requirment for you. He is not doing extremely great right now, but give him another year under rousch and he will get better. so jump on his bandwagon now.

[FavreChild]

It *was* a blast, and extremely well-done. The best part...it didn't cost me anything! A friend of mine won the experience from Marlboro and brought me as a guest. I almost felt bad b/c I do not smoke, and Marlboro really went all out for its customers. It lasted about three hours - definitely an experience worth a couple hundred bucks. They let us keep the racing gloves, but not the $2,000 racing suits. But we got lots of pictures of us in the cars, wearing the full gear. Sweet.

I have always liked IRL, but haven't really followed NASCAR. I know a lot of the big names, of course, but don't root for any of them. Thus, I like your suggestion and the fact that I haven't heard of this Jamie McMurray fellow. I'll have to check him out....

[Little Whiskey]

FC, here is your driver.

Jamie McMurray broke into Cup Cars, back in 2002 when he sub for an injured Sterling Marlin. He won in just his second race. When Marlin returned Chip Gnassi (team owner) found room for him in the #42 Havoline Dodge. Since his big break in 2002, Jamie has had up and down seasons. He lured away from Genassi last year by Jack Rousch and was asked to take over for the then departing Mark Martin, however since Kurt Busch thought that Miller and Penske offered greener pastures the decided to ask Martin to drive one more year and put jamie in the 26. (at the time it was the 97 car). The recently switched crew cheifs between Jamie and Carl Edwards and i don't know yet if it was good or bad. I look for Mcmurray to finish this year on an up note and be settled by next year.

http://www.irwin.com/irwin/consumer/images/mcmurray_press3.jpg

http://i.cnn.net/nascar/.element/img/1.1/sect/drivers/cup/jmcmurra00/car.jpg

[FavreChild]

OK, we'll give it a try. Is there a race coming up soon that I'm supposed to be watching (besides the Indy 500)?

[Little Whiskey]

This week is the the all star event (used to be called the Winston). there is three ways to be able to race in this event. first is to win a race the previous year. or second is to win the qualifing race. or third is to be voted in by the fans. I don't think McMurray won a race last year, and i don't think he will be voted in by the fans. so in order for him to race this weekend he is going to have to win the qualifier. he might. but this weekend will be a good race to watch. if you don't finish first you don't win anything. so those last laps will be some beating and banging. next weekend is the cocacola 600. it is at the same racetrack but 600 miles!! it is the longest race of the season. and Lowes motorspeedway, usually lends itself to good racing. but i'll be honest the next good beginer race to watch will be daytona on 7/1. don't get me wrong you can practice watching up until then. Since you like IRL and you are going to watch the indy500, did you know that Nascar races at indy? 8-6, for the brickyard 400. Who do is your driver for IRL?? I'm not a huge fan, but i will watch the 500 and every now and then i will watch a race.

I think you should post some of the pic from your racing weekend!! do you have any action photos? how fast did they take the corners? please tell me you didn't scream and cry?!! every week the anouncers (ex-drivers) take some sort of celeb for a lap or two around the track. i don't remember who it was but they took this woman in the car for a lap around atlanta (fastest track) and after they came out of the corner he road up near the wall...i think she just about pissed herself!! screaming and carrying on, covering her eyes and holding her face. too damn funny. i hope this wasn't YOU.

[Little Whiskey]

last night, as part of the all star festivities, they held their anual pit crew competion. Martin Truex Jr beat Kasey Kahne to take the crown. the compition consists of heats, each team must change four tires, fill the car with gas then push it down the pit road. fastest wins. Its nice to see nascar recognize some of the behind the scenes guys. it kinda pisses me off that truex could find time in his busy schedule to root his team on. these guys give their heart and soul to him week in and week out and root him on during the race, without any fame or glory. now it is their turn and he can't make it. SHAME!!

[FavreChild]

LW, they told us that we had an average speed of 100 mph on the oval. They made us sign about a bazillion disclaimers, and they told us ahead of time that we'd be going as fast as the real drivers do, and riding up next to the wall, and that we'd have to climb in through the IROC window and all that stuff. We knew what we were in for! Also, they sort of did a "test lap" on each track to make sure the riders were okay with the speed. Then you would give the driver the thumbs-up to go full speed. I thought it was frickin' sweet - but there were some people who didn't like taking the turns or driving up next to the wall. No one freaked out, though.

I'm not a complete NASCAR dummy - I know the CocaCola 600 and the Brickyard and the major races, and who the major drivers are. I just don't watch them. :wink:

When I was little, I always watched the 500, though. I remember liking the Andrettis, Arie Luyendyk, and I would root for Lyn St. James 'cause she was the only chic. I haven't followed IRL much lately, so I don't know about many of the drivers other than the big names - Andretti, Cheever, Castroneves, and of course Patrick.

I got my picture taken sitting in the car that won the Milwaukee Mile last year - NOT a replica - I think Hornish was the driver...?

[Little Whiskey]

so now that you are pumped up on racing again, are you going to get tickets to the bush or truck race at The Mile??? not the same as a cup event, but a good time. make sure to tune sat night at 7pm for the all star. your boy needs all the help he can get!!

[FavreChild]

OK, I will try to remember.

(Or at least try to remember to look up how he does so that I can be ready when you quiz me.) :mrgreen:

[Little Whiskey]

FC, i'm counting on you. i won't be able to watch the race since we are going up north this weekend and it is on FX, no cable in the cottage. ahh but maybe it will be a good excuse to visit the local establishment. BRILLIANT!!

[GBRulz]

FC, that's very cool about getting to ride in that car!

I used to attend more of the local races. State Park Speeday and also Marshfield are two of my old stomping grounds.

I follow my friend Scott Wimmer, whom I have known since high school, but other than that, I'm not big on the NASCAR circuit.

[Little Whiskey]

GBM, i've always liked wimmer since his earlier bush days. (mostly cause the wisconsin thing) but since he has moved into cup, he has driven for subpar teams. when he took over for ward burton on the 22, bill davis was going thru a feud GM, because of his dealings with Toyota and helping them into the sport, so he had to switch to dodge with poor factory support. Then davis fired him and he is driving for Morgan Mclure, who just doesn't have the funding to give him top notch equipment.

so that means we need to pick you a new driver.

from what i know about you from the forums. I would suggest for you Carl Edwards. while he is not a member of the EC gang, he does have a small town attitude. He is from Columbia MO, but you would swear he is from BFE. Just a real down to earth guy. He climbed his way up thru the ranks. he went out and worked his butt off for every opportunity that he has gotten. His trademark is his backflip, when he wins a race. He drives the OfficeDepot 99 Ford. Which didn't have a sponser when he took the car over, from jeff burton. He is an up and comming driver. Last year he finished second in the overall points standings. As this is his second season racing, this would be a great time to jump on the Carl Edwards band wagon. what do you think??

[HarveyWallbangers]

Sports talk . . . with Jaime Pressly
By Zach Bodendieck - SportingNews

The actress, model and NASCAR nut talks to Sporting News about her love of racing:

TSN: How did you become a NASCAR fan?

Pressly: I was born and raised in North Carolina, that's how. It's like basketball in North Carolina -- everybody just kind of knows about it because it's there.

TSN: How fast do you drive?

Pressly: My dad sold cars my whole life, so I love cars--and I love driving fast.

TSN: How many tickets do you have to your name?

Pressly: I don't have any, actually. I didn't get out of tickets; I just haven't gotten any. I am very aware when I'm driving, that's why.

TSN: Who's more fun to party with -- rock stars or athletes?

Pressly: Partying with a rock star is way more fun than partying with an athlete. I don't really party with athletes.

TSN: Joy, your character in My Name is Earl, would like which driver?

Pressly: I think she'd pretty much like every driver because they have money. And they're famous. I mean, she's after Earl's money, and she thinks she's a star in her own right. I think any of them would do for her.

TSN: So who's your favorite driver?

Pressly: Jamie McMurray.

TSN: Many people probably now consider you the most attractive NASCAR fan. Thoughts?

Pressly: I would never say that, but if someone thought that, it's a huge honor and compliment.

[chain_gang]

I have couple drivers I like, Kenseth mainly cause I'm such a frickin homer, and Denny Hamlin. Used to like Gordon when he used to spin people all the time at the end for the win, but now he's a wuss. Bristol Race is one I'd like to see in person. I went to the Michigan 400 a few years back, and it was alright. But I'll be honest I mainly like watching the wrecks. If they don't have any I get a little bored.

I prefer Indy racing though. Love going down to the milwaukee mile for the race at the end of july, A.J. Foyt 225. Now that Danica Patrick is a chick I'd like to take home, lol.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Stewart is never at fault for anything, apparently.

[Little Whiskey]

FC, i am waiting for the race recap. I was able to break away to head off to the tavern to watch the race, but since it was under rain delay, i had to leave. So all that i know is that Johnson won, but why didn't Kenseth finish. I assume he was involved in a wreck, but why and how. Sorry McMurray didn't make it.


chain-gang, gordon isn't a wuss, his is a puss, or a siss. always was, always will be. I think he might be dating TT, just ask Tank for sure :mrgreen:

[chain_gang]

Stewart is never at fault for anything, apparently.


Yeah, sure seems that way, wish somebody would get the balls to jack him right in the damn face. Of course if you hit one of the babyfaces of racing you'll probably be banned for life.

[HarveyWallbangers]

FC, i am waiting for the race recap. I was able to break away to head off to the tavern to watch the race, but since it was under rain delay, i had to leave. So all that i know is that Johnson won, but why didn't Kenseth finish. I assume he was involved in a wreck, but why and how. Sorry McMurray didn't make it.

chain-gang, gordon isn't a wuss, his is a puss, or a siss. always was, always will be. I think he might be dating TT, just ask Tank for sure :mrgreen:

Stewart crashed Kenseth on a turn when they were in 3rd and 4th with about 20 laps to go. It was somewhat debatable. Maybe Kenseth was blocking him a bit, but sometimes it's best to let up a bit--even the God, Tony Stewart. He got him in the left rear and spun both out. The worst is Tony's reaction after the race. Like chain_gang wrote, I wish somebody would smack the little guy across the head. Here's the report:

Kyle Busch, Jeremy Mayfield, Jamie McMurray and Greg Biffle couldn't avoid the carnage. Stewart did slide through, only to get hit by Mayfield's careening car.

Irritated with the wreckage, Stewart drove by Mayfield and revved his engine in anger as he passed. Mayfield then stopped by to assure Stewart he wasn't at fault.

``I just told him I didn't have nothing to do with it,'' Mayfield said. ``We're cool.''

Although Stewart returned to the track, his night ended early in the final 20-lap sprint when he ran into Matt Kenseth to send them both into the wall.

`He put me in the wall head-on,'' Kenseth complained on his radio. ``He must have drove across the bottom, and he just wrecked me. Then he flipped me the bird.''

Stewart vehemently disagreed.

``That's a pretty demented view in my opinion,'' Stewart said. ``I think he screwed up on this one. If he thinks I did that and that was my fault, he's screwed up in the head.''

[Little Whiskey]

sorry FC, i guess Mcmurray was in the race, since his car won a race last year. turns out he didn't fair any better than the rest of his teamates. Only GBM's Carl Edwards was the only rousch car to finish.

I watched the replay of kenseth/stewart wreck. it looks like (and also suggested by the crew of Nascar Victory Lane) stewart cut a tire and pushed the two of them into the wall. I don't really ever give stewart the benifit of the doubt, but i think this was a tire failure intead of a brain failure.

I heard that stewart and Robby Reiser (kenseth's crew chief) went after it after the race. anybody have any more insight to this??

[HarveyWallbangers]

I watched the replay of kenseth/stewart wreck. it looks like (and also suggested by the crew of Nascar Victory Lane) stewart cut a tire and pushed the two of them into the wall. I don't really ever give stewart the benifit of the doubt, but i think this was a tire failure intead of a brain failure.

If this is true, why does he go out of his way to blame Kenseth for the crash?

[FavreChild]

Thanks for bailing me out with the summary, HW (altho I woulda pasted in the same stuff).

All I saw was the qualifier - and when I saw that my boy wasn't in that, I figured he was already in the "real" race. But I didn't get to see that part. There was a lot of pre-race coverage w/ your boy Jeff Gordon and some BBQ guy. (See? Just proving I watched *some* of it.)

Fights are fun. NASCAR - the soap opera for men.

[Little Whiskey]

harv, don't get me wrong i'm not sticking up for stewart. He is creeping very close to taking over the my #1 hated spot from Gordon. it is just from the replay i saw (nascar.com and nascar victory lane) it looked like a cut tire. he was on the bottom of the track, and just shot up the track. he was 1/4 past kenseth, if he wante to rub kenseth to spin him, he would hit them in the rear quarter panel, not the front end.

[chain_gang]

This is quite an interesting read from espn.com


Richard Petty: Racing not a sport for women



CONCORD, N.C. -- Richard Petty didn't think women belonged on the race track when Janet Guthrie became the first female driver to compete in the Coca-Cola 600 in 1976.

Thirty years later, his opinion hasn't changed.

"I just don't think it's a sport for women," Petty said in an interview with The Associated Press. "And so far, it's proved out. It's really not. It's good for them to come in. It gives us a lot of publicity, it gives them publicity.

"But as far as being a real true racer, making a living out of it, it's kind of tough."

Petty, a seven-time champion and NASCAR's all-time winningest driver, was one of the many people who gave Guthrie a cool reception when she came to Lowe's Motor Speedway for her first NASCAR event.

Guthrie had failed to qualify for the Indianapolis 500 when track officials persuaded her to come to North Carolina and try to make their race, then known as the World 600.

In her book, "Janet Guthrie A Life at Full Throttle," that was released last year, Guthrie recounted the icy reception she received from other drivers when she came to Lowe's for the '76 race.

"When I shook hands with Richard Petty I thought I'd get frostbite," Guthrie wrote. "Later, he would be quoted as saying of me: 'She's no lady. If she was she'd be at home. There's a lot of differences in being a lady and being a woman."'

In the three decades that have passed, Petty has grown to appreciate what Guthrie accomplished. She competed for underfunded teams at a time when NASCAR did not have the programs that are currently in place to promote women and minorities.

"I've still not changed my mind about women racing," he said. "The deal with her ... she came in before you had any diversity deal. She come in just as herself and done a decent job. She come in the hard way, because no one really welcomed her in.

"She said, 'I'm here, I'm going to do it,' and she was able to get it done. You have to admire her for that."

Guthrie remains the only woman to compete in the Coca-Cola 600, and NASCAR has not had a female racer at the top level since Shawna Robinson ran seven events in 2002. The only woman even close to making it to the top is Erin Crocker, who will compete in Saturday night's Truck Series race in Ohio driving for Ray Evernham's development program.

So while Danica Patrick prepares to make her second start in the Indianapolis 500 on Sunday, the NASCAR event will go off with an all-male field.

But NASCAR remains convinced that it will have a woman at the top level in no time.

"I think there is a woman driver out there who will break through," spokesman Jim Hunter said Thursday. "There will be the emergence of a contending woman driver. When? I have no idea.

"But I do know there are a lot of women drivers in the pipeline today, running sprint cars or whatever, who are wanting to make it to this level."

Kyle Petty, who currently runs the two-car operation built by his grandfather and father, said he would never rule out having a woman driver. He also pointed out that Petty Enterprises was one of the first teams in the garage to employ female engineers and mechanics.

But he said his father will never budge on his belief that women don't belong behind the wheel -- even if Kyle Petty's daughter one day decides she wants to be a racer.

"His position is not going to change because that is who he is, that is part of who he is," Kyle Petty said. "That's just a fact of life. That's how he was raised, when he was raised, the era he was raised in. And that's just the way it is."

[chain_gang]

I think he needs to wake up a little and realize that times have changed, and if a women is good enough to be out there she should be. I mainly watch Indy for Danica anyways. :D

[HarveyWallbangers]

I say keep chicks out of sports--unless it's an Olympic sport for women. We need all the gold medals we can get.
:D

[MJZiggy]

I realize this isn't nascar, but still.
By EDDIE PELLS AP National Writer

INDIANAPOLIS (AP) - Even race car drivers care about the ozone layer.

Though the idea of cars zooming around the track at full throttle rarely evokes the environmental movement, the Indy Racing League is trying to do its part.

This Sunday will mark the first Indianapolis 500 in which all the cars burn ethanol, the corn-based fuel additive that has been generating more buzz in the wake of the current spike in gasoline prices and the heightening search for American-grown renewable energy.

Where else to make a big splash but the heartland, a stone's throw away from the cornfields of Indiana?

"To me, it's very appropriate," said 1996 Indy 500 champion Buddy Lazier.

It's the highest profile attempt in recent years by the IRL to stay on the cutting edge of technology in a sport that is, as part of its core mission, expected to revolutionize its industry, along with entertaining the fans.

This year, the IRL takes a baby step, mixing in 10 percent ethanol into the traditional, carbon-based methanol, which burns much the same as ethanol but is made from a nonrenewable source. Next year, these open-wheel cars will run on 100 percent ethanol.

[Little Whiskey]

that's okay zig, this is a race thread so you can add open-wheel topics!!

I havn't looked it up recently but last i knew Nascar was given an exemption so they can still run a lead based fuel. to show further they are behind the times. those cars are still carburated engines. i heard one of the owners talk about how none of his engine mechanics could get a job anywhere else since engines haven't used carburators since the '80s. kinda funny.

[FavreChild]

LW, I am awaiting your commentary on the weekend's events. :wink:

I watched most of the 500 before deciding to give in to the gorgeous weather (and accompanying beverages). I would have liked the Andrettis to triumph, but I don't mind Sam Hornish, I guess.

I sorta, um, forgot to watch the CocaCola 600. But at about 11:30 p.m., I realized that I needed to check in on what happened. When I explained why, I got a major eye-roll from both the boyfriend and my mother. But the moral of the story is that even though I didn't technically "watch" the race, I do know who won and how to spell his name (Kahne), and also that my boy took eighth.

That's progress, isn't it???

[Little Whiskey]

I too was like you FC. i watched a chunk of the 500 and a little more of the 600. I thought for a bleating second that an andretti was going to win. i was pulling for them in the end. but like you say, the curse is still on them. I also didn't mind hornish winning. the finish on the 500 was much better then the finish on the 600.

kahne, had the best car and in the end it showed. johnson wasn't even close at the end. but this turned out to be a great race (for me, anyway) since both gordon and stewart were taken out early and finished well back in the standings. this coupled with kenseth running very well at the end equals a great weekend. Kahne's win at Lowe's marked the first victory by a dodge at that track since Richard Petty won back in the 70's. It also broke Jimmie Johnson's consecutive wins streak at the track. GBM's driver also finished in the top 5, with a 3rd place finish.


still waiting for mazzin to show up so we can figure out her driver.

[chain_gang]

I watched most of the indy 500 and bits and pieces of the CC600. Indy was great, watching that finish with the andretti's falling short yet again, felt kind of bad for Michael and Marco, but Marco's best days are in front of him. As for the CC600 it was a boring race, I believe Nextel is ruining Nascar racing in general, too many commercials and they are more about marketing, whereas Winston gave into what the fans wanted. Seems like 95% of the tracks are the damn 1.5 mile oval, boring, same race every week. With the exception of Bristol, I haven't found any of the Nascar races exciting. They're ruining the Super speedways by eliminating the bump drafting, because of that whiney little bitch Tony "Doughboy" Stewart. He's the one who's going to get someone killed with his roadrage. Enough about him though.

In a few years with the way Nascar is going, I see Indy racing taking over in popularity, because of the bright new stars. Plus the side by side during commercial breaks is the best idea in a long time. The only thing that pissed me off about Indy was they didn't broadcast in HD, cheapskates.

[Deputy Nutz]

Indy will be interesting but their is still to much controversy with open wheeled racing. I really don't like how they depend on the team concept during the race with blocking and stuff.

Indy is a coulda woulda shoulda.... They have blown it too many times.

[chain_gang]

I agree somewhat nutz, however Indy is starting to get back where it used to be in the early 90s, and I believe they're going to go above and beyond Nascar, only because of Nextel's involvement. The races this year have been stale, and boring. The excitement of what the drivers are going to do in the final laps, are gone, for fear of punishment, with the exception of the Nascar Golden Boys. Nextel is blinded by dollar signs, and it's affecting the quality of the races and the race tracks. Up pops the same 1.5mi oval in every major market, although toyota may help with interest for a year or so. I just think Indy, while not having the highest ceiling race wise, will out do Nascar for the reasons I gave.

[Little Whiskey]

Chain gang. i see some of your points and agree with the commercial take. when they went split screen on the 500. i couldn't believe it. I'll bet soon you will see that in nascar. it is very frustrating when a caution comes out during a break, or somthing big happens and they still go to commercial.

I think nacar is the "common man's" race. where as IRL and Cart, are the upper class. you can't go to the dealer and test drive an Indy car, but you can go and drive around in a Monte Carlo SS. Granted it doesn't bear many other similarities other than the name plate. other than INDY those races don't sell out and the TV coverage is terrible. If it weren't for SPEED TV you would be tough to find talked about.

I took don't like the cookie cutter tracks, and was very upset when they dropped Rockingham during realignment along with the other track changes, but i see why they are doing it. they are trying to get a limited, but long, schedule to other larger markets. Nascar was very confinded to the south west and extremly limited in the west.

initially i was upset with the CHASE, but after the last couple years i have really grown to enjoy the playoff format. it was good for nascar and good for the fans.

I agree money is changing the sport. but it is that way for most sports that become popular. how many times do you yell at the tv when they go to commercial befor a punt then after a punt, and before and after a kickoff. same thing with nascar.

if INDY style racing starts to grow and get back to prominance i think they will go thru the same thing, with money.

[HarveyWallbangers]

I agree somewhat nutz, however Indy is starting to get back where it used to be in the early 90s, and I believe they're going to go above and beyond Nascar

Not a chance in hell, IMHO. I don't like the addition of Toyota, and your criticisms of NASCAR are valid, but this just ain't going to happen.

[Little Whiskey]

Not a chance in hell, IMHO. I don't like the addition of Toyota, and your criticisms of NASCAR are valid, but this just ain't going to happen.

come on harv, i think you can do better than that!! give some reasons buddy.

[chain_gang]

initially i was upset with the CHASE, but after the last couple years i have really grown to enjoy the playoff format. it was good for nascar and good for the fans.



Yeah at first I didn't know what to think about the Chase format, I kind of thought it was disrespectful to past winners. I do like it a lot now and it makes it more interesting towards the end of the year. The free pass rule is another I kind of like, however, I'd like to see the driver that gets a free pass only be able to do it once during the race. I still watch Nascar, but this year seems to be a little boring compared to years past for some reason.

I also agree that if indy gets more viewers and fan support they'll get into marketing a lot more, just as any other sport does.

[Little Whiskey]

The free pass rule is another I kind of like, however, I'd like to see the driver that gets a free pass only be able to do it once during the race.


I glad they did away with racing back to the caution flag, but i agree with you on the once per race rule change. i think you should be able to race back with one or two laps to go. i like the green white checkers rule but still hate the fact that the race can finish under caution, and you can't race back to the finish line.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Not a chance in hell, IMHO. I don't like the addition of Toyota, and your criticisms of NASCAR are valid, but this just ain't going to happen.

come on harv, i think you can do better than that!! give some reasons buddy.

The biggest reason: Americans like sports that are distinctly American. Stock car racing, not open wheel racing, is distinctly American.

[Little Whiskey]

i agree with you harv.


so why your dislike for toyota entering Nascar? are you only against cup, or where you against the trucks too?

[HarveyWallbangers]

I'm the ugly American. I don't want Toyota dominating NASCAR like they do the Truck series.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Kenseth with a nice win today at Dover. He passed teammate Jamie McMurray with 3 laps to go.

[Little Whiskey]

I was hoping that FC watched the race. Her boy had a damn good chance of winning. those closing laps were some great racing. I wouldn't have been too upset if kenseth couldn't have passed him. he is due for a break.

speaking of breaks, do you think someone can pull the horseshoe out of Jimmie Johnsons rear. the guy was laped during the race and was in the back of the field all day long, and still pulls out a top ten finish. I hate to say it but this might be his year.

I don't know if you heard in the post race interviews, but reiser (kenseth's crew cheif) had called for him to pit under the final caution. If he had there was no way he wins the race. even though he had the best car all day, there just wasn't enough laps for him to fight thru the field.

[MadtownPacker]

The race on the new movie "Cars" looks exciting. :mrgreen:

[Deputy Nutz]

McMurray and Kenseth don't much care for each other, so I am glad that #17 car sped past him.

Kenseth is gonna be the #1 car going into the Chase. Whether or not he can hold on is another matter, but he has the best car, and right now the best pits. He is even running in the top ten in the super speedways. Rousch is by far and away the strongest team out there right now.

[Little Whiskey]

nutz i think they might have mended a few of those fences. it probably helps a little bit that they are now on the same team. I was curious to see how it would play out after it was announced that rousch had hired mcmurry to drive the 97 (or 26), since they have had more then words the past couple years. I thought their relationship was going to be similar to Robby Gordon and Harvick, when they both raced for Childress. but so far it has worked out. they raced each other very clean at the end of the race. I was more concered about Harvick wrecking one of them, then i was about each of them taking the other out.

[FavreChild]

I was hoping that FC watched the race.

LW, I checked in on the race earlier but McMurray was back in 17th or something. I didn't really "watch" much, though. I caught the highlights, though, which is good 'cause I would have been ticked at the end. Stupid Kenseth!

Really, I got nothing against Kenseth, and I guess he's supposed to be the local guy. How come him and Jamie don't like each other? They're teammates now, though, right?

[Little Whiskey]

up until last year Mcmurry drove for chip gnassi racing. the last couple years the two of them have had a couple "run-ins" and duked it out on the track and to a lesser extent in the media during the post race interviews. however, on sunday they raced each other very clean at the end. if either was holding a grudge they could have ruined each others day. or at least cost them the win. so i think they have kissed and made up.

[Deputy Nutz]

I don't know if they kissed and made up. I know Kenseth said that he tried to call him after the 2005 season and his phone call was never returned by McMurray. That was 6th months ago.

[FavreChild]

How is this not a soap opera for men? :wink:

Someone needs to draw up a chart for me of who hates whom. You need to create a storyline to get non-fans more interested in the race outcomes.

In fact, I also suggest that technique for getting your wives/girlfriends/female friends more interested in football (and therefore more tolerant of your spending countless hours watching/reading about it). I wrote an article for Mad on the subject (coming soon).

[HarveyWallbangers]

Favorite: Matt Kenseth
Also Like: Mark Martin, Carl Edwards, Dale Earnhardt Jr., Bobby Labonte
Don't Like: Jeff Gordon, Jimmie Johnson, Ryan Newman
Least Favorite: Tony Stewart, Kyle Busch, Kurt Busch

I'm indifferent on everybody else.

[FavreChild]

I mean, a chart of which drivers hate each other.

I don't care who YOU like, Harv. :wink:

Just kiddin' - good to have on record for bragging rights. Not kidding about the master chart, though.

[Little Whiskey]

its not really who hates who. but it is more like rivalries. bears vs packers, redsox vs yankees, Notre Dame vs USC. you get the picture. however, each of these rivalries "play" every week. It also extends to the fans. you might root for certain drivers/teams, you might tolorate other drivers, and hate (or strong dislike) other drivers.

for instance. kevin harvick vs curt busch. Tony Stewart vs Matt Kenseth, Jeff Gordon vs Dale Earnhardt sr (back in the day). kurt busch vs Jimmie Spencer, (again back in the day) (classic rivalry, spencer ended up punching busch in the face while he was belted into his car!! he deserved every bit of it.)

i root for kenseth and the old timers, as well as the other rousch cars. I tolorate, jeff burton, Earnhardt Jr. Micheal Waltrip, truex jr, and a some others. I hate both gordons, harvick, both buschs, tony stewart, jimmie johnson, and a few others.

but you see how great this is!! Its like Sunday ticket every week, and i dont' have to pay to get it!!

[FavreChild]

its not really who hates who. but it is more like rivalries. bears vs packers, redsox vs yankees, Notre Dame vs USC. you get the picture.

Semantics!


for instance. kevin harvick vs curt busch. Tony Stewart vs Matt Kenseth, Jeff Gordon vs Dale Earnhardt sr (back in the day). kurt busch vs Jimmie Spencer, (again back in the day) (classic rivalry, spencer ended up punching busch in the face while he was belted into his car!! he deserved every bit of it.)

Ok, good. But take it a step further. WHY do these rivalries exist? How did they develop? You gotta provide some historical context. Again, like tv characters - maybe there is a business rivalry, or one slept with the other's wife. I know y'all don't like to think of it that way 'cause you're manly men and all, but it really is the same. You have to create a storyline for the viewer. "Harvick hates Busch because...." Create characters. Who is the good guy and who is the bad guy? That's what gets new viewers interested - the prospect for drama. And then by watching, you have the potential for adding to the drama.

Obviously, y'all don't watch soap operas, but trust me - it's the same. :cool:

[Little Whiskey]

like other sports the rivalries and "soap opera" stems from the game (in this case the race). unlike in other sports, this sometimes flows over into post race interviews. this mainly brought on by the media. no other sport allows such access to the athletes. imagine in hockey they interview the player as he sits in the penalty box, or the baseball player as he walks into the dugout after a bench clearing brawl. in those sports the media allows the player to cool down after the event. in nascar they stick the mic in the drivers face as they are pulling him from the wrecked car, heck they are even broadcasting the communication between the driver and crew while they are racing. so there isn't a cool down period, no locker room.

some drivers are better then others at controlling there emotions after a race. but even the best will lose there cool if they have the car to beat and are taken out by someone who is being an idiot on the track.


as far as good "guys/bad guys", that is a matter of personal opinion. I think busch, harvick and gordon are "bad guys", but others might tend to disagree. just like harv thinks that newman is a "bad guy" whereas i would put him in my tolerate group.

[jack's smirking revenge]

Ok Whiskey, I'm here. I'll follow NASCAR if you can find me a driver who is...

a) Negro
b) A Homosexual

Those are my criteria for following the sport. I'm big on diversity.

:lol:

tyler

[FavreChild]

How 'bout you take the scientology-sponsored driver, JSR? I think that's as diverse as you're gonna get... :wink:

[HarveyWallbangers]

b) A Homosexual

A homosexual? Like all of the other sports. Well, I can just about guarantee you that Jeff Gordon is gay--with his Rainbow Warrior car.


a) Negro

A black dude has attempted to qualify for a NASCAR race this year, but hasn't been successful. I believe the Trucks series and Busch have a couple. I just read an article in ESPN Magazine a few weeks ago about diversity in NASCAR. They are making a big push for diversity in NASCAR. They have a number of minority driving programs and scholarships, and there are some good, black drivers coming up the pipeline. Actually, I think NASCAR, in a very short time of pushing these programs, are farther along than the PGA Tour and USTA. NASCAR has some heavy hitters, like Magic Johnson, working for their diversity programs. What's funny is that NASCAR is appealing to black folks. The percentage of NASCAR fans who are black is around 9%. That's just under the percentage for the overall population. There are a number of black athletes (e.g. a few of the Carolina Panther players) that are getting into the NASCAR business. From 1995 to 2002, Hispanic and black interest in NASCAR increased by up to 40%--according to an ESPN poll. NASCAR execs see huge dollar signs, and they REALLY WANT a Tiger Woods of NASCAR to come along.

The lack of sponsorship money is what's keeping a minority driver from excelling. There's enough money out there in the black community to make it happen. There are some blacks getting involved in the ownership of lower level teams. I believe it will filter up.

[jack's smirking revenge]

b) A Homosexual

A homosexual? Like all of the other sports. Well, I can just about guarantee you that Jeff Gordon is gay--with his Rainbow Warrior car.


a) Negro

A black dude has attempted to qualify for a NASCAR race this year, but hasn't been successful. I believe the Trucks series and Busch have a couple. I just read an article in ESPN Magazine a few weeks ago about diversity in NASCAR. They are making a big push for diversity in NASCAR. They have a number of minority driving programs and scholarships, and there are some good, black drivers coming up the pipeline. Actually, I think NASCAR, in a very short time of pushing these programs, are farther along than the PGA Tour and USTA. NASCAR has some heavy hitters, like Magic Johnson, working for their diversity programs. What's funny is that NASCAR is appealing to black folks. The percentage of NASCAR fans who are black is around 9%. That's just under the percentage for the overall population. There are a number of black athletes (e.g. a few of the Carolina Panther players) that are getting into the NASCAR business. From 1995 to 2002, Hispanic and black interest in NASCAR increased by up to 40%--according to an ESPN poll. NASCAR execs see huge dollar signs, and they REALLY WANT a Tiger Woods of NASCAR to come along.

The lack of sponsorship money is what's keeping a minority driver from excelling. There's enough money out there in the black community to make it happen. There are some blacks getting involved in the ownership of lower level teams. I believe it will filter up.

Interesting stuff Harv. Thanks for the info.

tyler

[Little Whiskey]

hey jack thanks for stoping by. for your homo driver, i'll agree with harv. jeff gordon is your man. the rumor has always been that there was always something between him and his crewchief. whether it was robbie lomis or ray evernham. why else would his first wife leave him. the answer is that it was just a front. she could no longer put up with his tendencies!!

anyway, for your black driver. there actually was a driver who qualified for a cup race this year. his name escapes me now but i believe his car was sponsered by waste mgmt. and he drove for gibbs. I also think it is only a matter of time before you see a minority in the cockpit. (i think that word gives Gordon a stiffy).

i would suggest we dig a little deeper to find you a driver. that black guy was not very successful his first time out. and has not qualified for another race. so it would be pretty tough for you to root for a guy who doesn't make the show. Jeff Gordon has also had his troubles of late. you can pull for him if you like, but you won't be very popular if you ever make it to a race. every lap he makes he is boo'ed by the fans seated in that section. this happens even during the introductions. the two drivers you can always tell where they are at on the track is Gordon and Jr. Gordon from the boo's and Jr. from the cheers.

I think your driver should be Dale Jr. I usually don't ever recommend him since he is always the default answer when you ask who people root for. But he has been sponserd numerious times by bands and since you are into the music thing. i think it is a good fit. however, Kenseth is a huge Metallica fan. infact his cat is named Lars. so there is a couple drivers for you. i think a little longer to come up with a couple more.

[Little Whiskey]

this week the cup teams make their way to Pocono race way in the Pocono Mtns. this track is always very tricky since it is shaped like a triangle. each of the three corners are at different angles and banking, and the three straightaways are different lengths. these factors make it very difficult for the crew chiefs to get the right set up for all the variables. you might be good in turns one and two and lousy in turn three. it makes headaches for both the driver and the crew. should be a good race.

[the_idle_threat]

As I recall, Walter Payton was into auto racing.

Also, in related news, check out the last prank call on this page, re: black race car drivers. :lol:

http://www.ebaumsworld.com/mrbergis.html

[FavreChild]

Holy bleep!

Gilbert Brown, also.

LW, you need to post time/station for these races if you want any chance of me remembering to tune in. Then again, I won't have any excuse to "forget" to watch. :mrgreen:

[Little Whiskey]

FC, i believe Gilbert is stakeholder in the Milwaukee Mile.

the cup race starts sunday at 12:30 central. of course there is about a 1/2 hour or so of pre-race. looks like your boy qualified 8th. Denny Hamlin (rookie) is starting on the pole. hard to believe since this track really gives rookies a tough time. Give Gibbs racing another year and they are going to have a very strong stable. With Burton finally showing some flashes this year, Hamlin shinning as a rookie, and of course the two time champ Tony stewart. Kenseth is starting towards the back of the field at 25th. Sorry GBM, but Edwards is back even further at 40th, but don't count him out he won here last year. Jack, Dale Jr is rolling of in the 11th spot.

[Little Whiskey]

As I recall, Walter Payton was into auto racing.

Also, in related news, check out the last prank call on this page, re: black race car drivers. :lol:

http://www.ebaumsworld.com/mrbergis.html

welcome to the race thread idle, and Packerrats too. Do you have a driver that you pull for? Are you a rookie Nascar fan or experienced?

[the_idle_threat]

As I recall, Walter Payton was into auto racing.

Also, in related news, check out the last prank call on this page, re: black race car drivers. :lol:

http://www.ebaumsworld.com/mrbergis.html

welcome to the race thread idle, and Packerrats too. Do you have a driver that you pull for? Are you a rookie Nascar fan or experienced?

Thanks, Whiskey! I'm a very casual fan of Nascar at best ... my brother on the other hand has been a big Bobby Labonte fan since before he was driving the green Interstate Batteries car. If I pull for any driver, it's Labonte on my brother's behalf.

[Little Whiskey]

Idle, Labonte is having a decent year. He has finally given some respect back to the 43 team and petty enterprises. After struggling last year with gibbs it is nice to see him on a team that is giving him the equipment he deserves. After the dismisal of "Fatback" (his crew chief on the 18 team) they could never pull the team out of the downward spiral. Labonte is a driver that i don't mind rooting for. His Brother Terrry is the only Hendrick driver i could ever root for.

I would to appologize for an earlier post were i misspoke and said that Burton races for Gibbs and is helping turn that team around. In fact he drives for RCR not JGR. The third driver for Gibbs is JJ Yaley, who took over for Bobby Labonte when he left the 18 team last year.

[Little Whiskey]

FC, i'm waiting for your Pocono race recap. no excuses :mrgreen:

[FavreChild]

Um, ok, then. Here is my recap.

Driving home from the Brewer game, the classic rock station was playing a song by The Cars. After the song, the DJ mentioned that, ironically, while a song by The Cars was playing, Jeff Gordon just hit the wall. And I thought to myself, well, that will make LW happy.

When I got home, I turned on FOX, but there was a commercial. So I flipped over to another station and saw highlights from Brett Favre's charity softball game. When I flipped back to FOX, they were interviewing the winner. Some rookie I did not know; I think his name had "Ham" in it. Hamlin, maybe? Gosh, I hope that's close. Then they also interviewed Tony Stewart - I think he got third. I watched the scroll with the order of finish to see that my boy finished 18th, I think. And Matt Kenseth got 5th. Didn't sound like any fights happened or anything too controversial, but that it was impressive for a rookie and his crew to win at Pocono.

The end.

[MJZiggy]

Ya mean I missed highlights from the softball game? I saw about 30 seconds of the race while waiting for my car and reaffirmed my thoughts on car racing.

[FavreChild]

Yes, they kept showing two highlights from the softball game:

1) Brett made a lazy fielding error at third base and got ripped by his teammates for it.

2) Tom Arth jumped on Aaron Rodgers while celebrating and A-Rodg came up limping. Guess it turned out to be nothing, or else it would be big news today.

Now LW will probably yell at me for providing a more thorough summary of the softball game than the race.

Want a detailed recap of the Brewer game? Now THAT I could provide....but frankly, I'd rather not.

[MJZiggy]

Are the Brewers doing any worse than the O's? Last I checked, Brewers were one game better. :cry:

[FavreChild]

The Brewers are lucky that they have a nice array of aesthetically pleasing players, let's put it that way.

But stop trying to get me in trouble with LW! :wink: He is going to be mad that we steered the conversation away from racing.

Ha ha, get it? "Steered?"

[Little Whiskey]

well, that wasn't the greatest review, but i guess not to bad for someone who DIDN'T WATCH the race!! :mrgreen: your right i smiled a bit after gordon hit the wall, but after seeing the replay, i was amazed that he got out and walked away. He lost his brakes heading into turn 1 at over 170mph. he caught the dirt with is left tires and spun around and hit the wall in the driver side of the car. it was hard hit. It was a specatular wreck like you see at daytona or talladega. ie cars cartwheeling thru the infield. but one of the hardest hits i have seen into the outside wall. So i was relieved to see that he was okay.

your right Hamlin won, as a rookie. he sat on the pole (damn that sounds bad) and had the dominate car all day. Early in the race he blew out a tire and tore up the rear of his car a bit. after the crew made repairs he was back in 40 place. I think if he hadn't lost the tire he might have lead all day. he was that good.

Carl Edwards had a great day, but did have as great of a finish as he would have liked since during a green flag pit stop the car slid off the jack. he ended finishing a laps down because of the mistake.

Jimmie Johnson has yet to lose the horseshoe, after a pit road violation (speeding) which would normaly cost you a lap, he finished 10th

next week Michigan!

[FavreChild]

Heyyy, at least I got the Hamiln part right.

Baby steps, my friend. :wink:

[Little Whiskey]

thats right ladies this is a race thread not a brewers softball thread!!! :mrgreen:

Zig, have we found you a driver yet?? thats why you opinion of racing hasn't changed. so what do you look for in a sports team. why do you root for the O's and the Pack??

[Little Whiskey]

Heyyy, at least I got the Hamiln part right.

Baby steps, my friend. :wink:

ya i think you said "Ham somthing. i know it had ham in it." well that doesn't count!! :mrgreen:

[FavreChild]

Some rookie I did not know; I think his name had "Ham" in it. Hamlin, maybe? Gosh, I hope that's close.

Hey, I'm pretty proud of my memory skills. You will note that the above post was not edited to insert the correct name. I was just playing a little CYA in case I was wrong, that's all...

[Little Whiskey]

okay, what ever you say. you really know who won the race :wink: but can you tell me the number and sponser of the car??


anyway, you can have the next two weeks off. Michigan might be boring to the casual fan. Sometimes its a good race sometimes it is not, however roush cars usually dominate this track so McMurray should finish well. the following week is a road course. (see they don't just turn left) it can also be a boring race. However in three weeks it is Daytona. i expect full attention for the Pepsi 400!! I will expect a full recap on the following monday for that race. so mark your calander now. 7-1-06 :mrgreen:

come on zig, we only have two weeks left to get you a driver!!

[HarveyWallbangers]

No flash, just performance
By Lee Spencer - SportingNews

What can you say about a driver who is so damn dominant that NASCAR had to change its points system to protect the other competitors?

A lot when that driver is Matt Kenseth. Kenseth isn't flashy or flamboyant. He doesn't race to buy a bigger vacation house or a faster jet. He'd rather spend his down time in his native Wisconsin than on a St. Barths beach. He races for the sheer joy of competition. And, he races to win.

Kenseth practically coasted to the 2003 championship, topping the standings after a record 33 consecutive races and eventually finishing 90 points ahead of Jimmie Johnson. When NASCAR introduced the Chase for the NASCAR Nextel Cup in 2004, Kenseth entered the postseason fifth and finished eighth, the third straight season Kenseth finished in the top 10.

Shame on the idiots who counted Kenseth out last season after he finished 42nd in the Daytona 500 and didn't finish two more of the first 12 races. Kenseth's No. 17 team dropped to 24th after 14 races, but Kenseth and the Killer Bees went on a tear in the next 14 races -- they won once and finished in the top five seven times and squeezed into the Chase for the NASCAR Nextel Cup.

But that run took its toll. A roller-coaster Chase performance -- six finishes in the top fives and three of 26th or worse -- resulted in a seventh-place finish.

The 2006 season has been different. He has improved his qualifying considerably in the last two seasons. This year, he has an average starting position of 15.4, and he has led laps in all but three races. After his Daytona dogfight with defending series champion Tony Stewart -- and 15th-place finish -- Kenseth has not been lower than third in points.

Much of the team's success comes from the core relationship between Kenseth and crew chief Robbie Reiser. Reiser's selflessness led him to step out from behind the wheel of his family's Busch ride in 1997 and plug Kenseth, a 25-year-old fellow Cheesehead, in the car. The combination is the longest tenured in the Nextel Cup garage and shows no signs of getting stale.

As with any marriage, Kenseth and Reiser have experienced their ups and downs, but their personal agendas never have outweighed their desire to race.

Their dedication to racing -- and each other -- is what separates this team from the rest of the field and what will make Kenseth a contender for many years.

[Little Whiskey]

Great Article Harv. Kenseth is often found still running some the local tracks around WI and out east on some of the weekends off. its kinda like seeing your fav Pro baseball player playing in your beer league softball game. He is a down to earth guy

[Little Whiskey]

Sorry for the all you nascar fans out in PR world. I have neglected my duties to write the race recap for michigan. But since i was unable to tune in i felt less than qualified to write the recap. I was hoping that FC didn't heed my advice and watched so she could have let us know what happend. but she didn't or did, i guess it depends how you look at it. the long and short of sunday's race at michigan was rain. Kahne won by beating Edwards out of the pits and the race was shorted due to rain. if you subscribe to the conspiracy theories you would buy into the fact that they called the race even though it only rained for 15-20 minutes. Kasey was sponsered by the movie "Click" which stars Adam Sandler, who "coincidently" was the Grand Marshal for the race.

Any way this week they travel to Sonoma, the first of two road courses. You had better be a true die hard to watch this week. I personally don't care for the road courses but i will try to make time between trips around the lake to tune in. If you are in Milwaukee both the Trucks and Busch cars race on the mile this weekend.

[Little Whiskey]

The first road course race of the season is over and it was a pretty good race. J. Gordon pretty much lead the whole damn thing. strongest car on the track. Terry Labonte finished third and if anyone but gordon restarted behind him, he might have ended up winning. terry decided to stay out instead of pitting the last time and ended up finishing on fumes. Tony stewart had a great bit of karma repayment. early in the race he decided that he was going to try and intimidate borris said, and in the end ended up finishing towards the back (29 i think) He is a little punk and needs to be put in his place. if nascar isn't going to do it a fellow driver has to. after he just about wrecked Borris he proceeds to flip him off as he passes.

Next week is the second race at daytona. make sure you check this race out. a great race for everyone new to Nascar. FC, your two week vacation is over, i will be looking foward to your recap after the fourth. remember they race on sat. night.

A non-nascar note. I was watching speed news and they were showing the highlites from the GT race in ohio. (similar racing to Grand Tourismo, the video game). A driver was forced into the grass and drove over a culvert, which launched his car into the air and landed nose first. His car proceeded to flip end over end multiple times. he ends up walking away. hard to believe.

[FavreChild]

LW, I have been OOC lately, but saw somethin' on the tele about your boy JG.

No, I have not been a good fan lately - not even close. But do make sure to send me a reminder about what I am supposed to watch on 4th of July weekend. I am clueless - but I will not break a promise. Just please remind me of what I am supposed to do....

[FavreChild]

Oh yeah....LW, this is for you. I did remember to "watch" the race, although I will not pretend I watched it through and through like a football game. First of all - and this is not an excuse - they kept interrupting and/or using a reduced screen size to break in with severe weather alerts here. So it was really hard to see the running order and other things going on sometimes. Secondly, what the hell is with all the commercials? Yeah, yeah, I know - NASCAR is a business. But they really need to get that split screen like Indy.

OK, so certainly everyone knows that Tony Stewart won by passing that Said guy with only a few laps to go (or NASCAR people know that, anyway). I am just reporting it to demonstrate that I saw it happen. But I think Stewart was a big favorite and let a good chunk of the race, if I am not mistaken. But the race basically ended under caution - I do not like that. It's very anti-climactic. I guess a lot of the fans didn't think so, though, 'cause it looked like a big celebration at the end. I guess that's what happens when you race at night and people can get all cranked up in the stands.

I remember there was a big crash with, I dunno, maybe seven laps to go? It took out five cars, including LW's boy Jeff Gordon - although he was in no way responsible for the crash. Was it my imagination, or were there some members of the crowd cheering when it became clear that the rainbow car was out? Or was I hearing LW from afar? :wink:

Um, let's see...what else? I think McMurray finished 7th or 8th. Before that last big crash, he was up to 4th or 5th, but the rest of the race he wasn't too high in the running order.

So, yeah...that's about all I have to say. Does that meet with your approval, Little Whiskey? What do I need to work on for next time?

What *IS* next time, by the way?

[Little Whiskey]

bravo...bravo...bravo. i am doing the golf clap while i am typing this. i am very impressed. however there is one little thing you need to work on...gordon is NOT my guy!!!! never has been....never will be!! it was probably me you heard cheering from the great north woods. I think i even woke my son up after that. my wife was not very happy, as i was dancing and shouting around the living room!! but the other two things that made me very happy was the fact that kenseth finished top 5 (he is showing that he is becoming a contender even on the restrictor plate tracks) but also that Johnson had trouble as well. Hated to see bobbie labonte involved, but way to help out the number 17 bobbie. Kenseth is currently 8 points behinde Jimmie for first place.

ya i know the commercials suck. it seems that fox is cramming more and more of them in to pay for the big contract they just signed for the nascar progamming. unlike other sports the race usually does not stop, so there is not a great time to put in a commercial. for instance they were at commercial when the Gordon wreck happened. then everyone pitted so they didn't even show a good replay. pissed me off. follow that up with the fact that my power went out with two laps to go (damn storms could wait another 5 minutes!!) and then to find out they finished under caution due to debris!!! the conspircy theorist are coming out for this one. from what i understand stewart was being challanged for the lead when the caution flag flew. and since they were on the last lap (leader took the white flag) the green white checker rule does not apply. however it should. no excuse to finish under caution. either you run the green white checkers, or else you race back to the finish on the last lap. simple as that. if gordon or busch would have won that race, we might have seen them showered with beer cans again!!

actually this race, imo, was kinda boring for a usual restrictor plate race and they never had the big wreck. that usually thins out the field a bit so you don't have a boris said finishing 4th. however, i was hoping he could have held stewart off for the win. I thought he should have at least gave him a little bump as he past, since the incident last week at infineon.

next week they travel to chicago. 1.5 oval very similar to Mich. and Vegas. could be good could be a blow out

[FavreChild]

Thanks, LW! :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

OF COURSE I know you hate Gordon - I'm just giving you the business.

Yes, I wish Said would have held on for the win, too. It was a crappy finish...but at least I SAW the finish. There you go.

[Little Whiskey]

OF COURSE I know you hate Gordon - I'm just giving you the business.



ya i know!! just trying to return your serve. so are you tuning in for chicago?? i believe they race on sunday this week. unfortunatly i will be driving near that hell hole on sunday. so i leaving early to avoid the traffic. but that means i will most likely miss the race.

[Fosco33]

I'm not a NASCAR fan but I did pay attention to this league about 5 years ago when I lived in S. Carolina for a summer.

So, I just read the race recap of Chicago. How the fuck can NASCAR consider itself a real sport if the officials basically turn their heads on straight up cheating (that could have killed someone)? Feels closer to WWF than the NFL, IMO.

If I were Kenseth and lost both points and roughly $200,000 in wages, I wouldn't just be looking for revenge during the next race - I'd be hunting the prick down - period.

[HarveyWallbangers]

I watched most of the race, and I was disappointed, but that was pretty much just racing. Kenseth has to get tougher though. These guys seem to not care if he's mad at them. Gordon and Stewart have both basically kicked him in the teeth in post-race interviews after wrecking him in a race. He's a great racer, but he needs to grow some balls. Gordon and Stewart are pip squeeks.

[Deputy Nutz]

I missed the race, what happened.

[Fosco33]

I watched most of the race, and I was disappointed, but that was pretty much just racing. Kenseth has to get tougher though. These guys seem to not care if he's mad at them. Gordon and Stewart have both basically kicked him in the teeth in post-race interviews after wrecking him in a race. He's a great racer, but he needs to grow some balls. Gordon and Stewart are pip squeeks.

Didn't they get into a fight once - Gordon being punished. And who had their girlfriends fighting for them??

I say embrace the WWF mentality - have a 3 way winner takes all cage match :mrgreen:

Seriously though, what should Kenseth have done besides blocking? I saw a neat interview on ESPN last week comparing NASCAR and Formula One - I can see why the world interest is higher with Formula One...

[Fosco33]

I missed the race, what happened.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/racing/07/09/nascar.chicago.ap/index.html

[Deputy Nutz]

Well he basically admitted to doing it on purpose, and he should be docked and fined.

[Little Whiskey]

god dammed computer. i just finished the recap and my take on the race and this fucking thing deleted my whole post!!!! :mad: :mad: :mad:


here is the shorted version
basically gordon punted kenseth out of the groove. during post race interviews all the drivers said that what gordon did was wrong, even his teammate kyle busch and his crew chief. Gordon should be suspended PERIOD. nascar cannot have drivers punting each other out of the way. as gordon finished his burnouts the fans rained beer cans down on his car. damn punk!!! i wanted kenseth to put gordon's car into the wall during the caution laps. he could have servived the point deduction.

sorry FC Macmurry finished two laps down, in 39

[Harlan Huckleby]

god dammed computer. i just finished the recap and my take on the race and this fucking thing deleted my whole post!!!! :mad: :mad: :mad:

Perhaps it was an act of God. And what message do you suppose God is trying to send you, hmmm? "STFU, Litttle Whiskey", perchance?

[Fosco33]

god dammed computer. i just finished the recap and my take on the race and this fucking thing deleted my whole post!!!! :mad: :mad: :mad:

Perhaps it was an act of God. And what message do you suppose God is trying to send you, hmmm? "STFU, Litttle Whiskey", perchance?

I think it's the 21st century version of 'the dog ate my homework'... :mrgreen:

[Little Whiskey]

go hump a leg harlan!!

[FavreChild]

LW, I won't ever call Gordon "your boy" again - even in jest.

What an asshole.

[Little Whiskey]

just in case anyone wants to post on another thread other than Mazzin's baby thread. i thought i'd remind you all of the nascar race this weekend. Unfortunatly i will not be able to watch as i am, again going to be traveling on sunday, but i will listen on the radio.

this week the cup boys take on New Hampshire. Some refer to it as Martinsville on steroids. It is a short(er) track that carries a lot of speed thru the corners. Should be a good race. they race sunday at 1:30pm on TNT. It will be interesting to see how the Gordon/Kenseth fued continues. Incase you haven't heard it looks like everyone is trying to run kenseth off the road. on his way to test in INDY, he was run into by student driver. then while he was testing he put his car into the wall. the guy should be out of wrecks by the time he gets to Hew Hampshire this weekend. I expect to see him finish strong.

[MJZiggy]

I saw Cars this week, does that count?

[HarveyWallbangers]

'Pretty well retired' Trickle to race in home state
By CHRIS JENKINS, AP Sports Writer

MILWAUKEE (AP) -- Dick Trickle just signed up for Medicare.

But that doesn't mean he won't try to trade some paint with NASCAR star Matt Kenseth and other notable drivers when he comes out of semiretirement Tuesday night for the Slinger Nationals in Slinger, Wis.

``I'm going there to win,'' said Trickle, who turns 65 in October. ``I ain't going there to show.''

Trickle hasn't raced at NASCAR's top level since 2002, but he still races occasionally at minor-league short tracks in his home state of Wisconsin.

``I'm pretty well retired,'' Trickle said by telephone from his home outside Charlotte, N.C. ``I don't have them scheduled yet, but I'll probably run another couple races in Wisconsin this year.''

So, does he still have his skills?

``I don't do it every day, so I'm probably not as tough as I was,'' Trickle said. ``But I'm as good as I was.''

Trickle never won a race in 24 years at NASCAR's top level, then called Winston Cup.

He did win two races in the second-tier Busch Series, and gained a cult following in part because of a name that could induce giggles from any self-respecting eighth-grader. ESPN commentators built the legend by noting where Trickle finished every week.

In the Midwest, however, Trickle was known as perhaps the most formidable grassroots short-track driver in history.

Record-keeping for grassroots racing is sporadic, but a fan Web site, tricklefan.com, credits him with more than 1,200 career victories in several different forms of racing -- proving, perhaps, that you don't have to be holding a rod and reel to tell fish stories in Wisconsin.

Trickle will try to add another victory to that total -- whatever it is -- at Slinger Speedway's quarter-mile oval on Tuesday, when he faces a field expected to include Kenseth, the 2003 NASCAR champion, and NASCAR regulars Scott Wimmer and Todd Kluever.

Wimmer, who calls Trickle a family friend, said the old man still brags that he can win.

``You can't argue with him,'' Wimmer said before a Busch Series race at the Milwaukee Mile last month. ``He's won more races than anyone in the world, I think.''

Wimmer credits Trickle for helping Wisconsin drivers make inroads into NASCAR, where drivers who weren't from the South used to be viewed skeptically.

``Every time you talk to him, you learn something,'' Wimmer said.

Trickle originally planned to race a 17-year-old car on Tuesday, but said he ``couldn't quite get it whipped into shape'' the last time he ran it. So Trickle had friends build him a new car.

``This'll be a test, but I'm up for it,'' Trickle said.

Trickle is spending his semiretirement on a sprawling property on the outskirts of Charlotte, where he lives with his three children and their families.

Trickle said he now spends most of his time keeping his ``toys'' running, fiddling with a collection of motorcycles, tractors and other mechanical goodies. He sprinkles in a bit of golf, too.

``I tell my kids, 'You're lucky I didn't try to make a living golfing. We'd really be broke,''' he said.

[Bretsky]

I saw Cars this week, does that count?

Counts in my book.

Last week's race is why I hate racing. Somebody dominates most of way and then another racer decides to get rid of him w/o a conscience and NASCAR does absolutely nothing. Kenseth is a home boy (from same City I was born in and about same age) so I occasionally watch a bit of a race or two. It's a hair above soccer for my interest level.

B

[HarveyWallbangers]

Is safety causing complacency, aggressiveness in NASCAR?
By CHRIS JENKINS, AP Sports Writer

NASCAR has made significant safety strides since the death of Dale Earnhardt, and many drivers credit recent innovations for an improved safety record: No deaths and few serious injuries in NASCAR's top three series in the past five years.

But after watching his drivers get wrecked at high-speed tracks three times this season _ including Jeff Gordon knocking Matt Kenseth out of the lead at Chicagoland Speedway on Sunday _ Roush Racing president Geoff Smith says drivers have been lulled into a false sense of security and are more willing to make risky moves.

"There's an undeserved complacency that's creeping into the racing," Smith said. "To me, there's a time bomb that's ticking there. You've got to stop it."

After winning Sunday's race, Gordon didn't deny he made the aggressive move in part to pay back Kenseth for an incident earlier this season.

Smith suspects two other incidents this season were intentional and unsafe: Kurt Busch's crash with Roush driver Greg Biffle at Texas Motor Speedway, which led to a pit-road confrontation between Biffle's girlfriend and Busch's fiancee, and the Tony Stewart-Kenseth crash at Daytona.

Busch denied it was intentional. But after Daytona, Stewart said Kenseth deserved rough treatment because of an earlier race incident.

"The reason people keep pushing the limits is because they keep getting a slap on the wrist. And 25 points or 50 points are starting to get more peoples' attention _ and some of the fines," Gordon said Wednesday. "But until they truly react in a big, big way, I think that guys are always going to continue to push the limits."

Paybacks and grudges always have been a part of NASCAR. But revenge typically has been unleashed at relatively low-speed short tracks, not bigger tracks where speeds can exceed 180 mph and consequences can be more severe.

"It's starting to get in their heads that it's not dangerous anymore," Smith said.

NASCAR certainly is less dangerous than before Earnhardt's death. Drivers wear full-face helmets and head and neck restraints. Cars sport redesigned cockpits with improved padding, seatbelts and seats. Tracks feature sprouted impact-absorbing wall barriers.

But racing never will be safe.

"We're not done testing the limits of what physics can do or not do in this sport," Smith said. "It's not bumper cars."

It sure looked that way Sunday. After winning the race, Gordon said he was trying to bump Kenseth out of the way, not wreck him.

"He should have expected, if I could get to his bumper, there was going to be some action," Gordon said Sunday. "One, because of what happened in Bristol _ and I'm not saying I just was going to wreck him, but you better believe I was going to make life difficult on him. And then No. 2, just 'cause we're hungry right now."

In March, Kenseth spun Gordon out at Bristol Motor Speedway and appeared to be trying to apologize after the race when Gordon shoved him. NASCAR fined Gordon $10,000 and put him on probation until Aug. 30.

Smith said it's odd NASCAR won't penalize Gordon this time: "(Just) because he confessed without trial doesn't mean there shouldn't be punishment."

NASCAR spokesman Jim Hunter said officials considered Sunday's wreck a "racing incident," and Gordon's post-race comments didn't change their minds.

Hunter said Gordon might have tried to knock Kenseth aside but wasn't trying to spin him out _ a distinction Hunter compared to a pitcher hitting a batter in the back instead of the head.

He argues drivers aren't complacent about safety, noting NASCAR crash data recorders show short-track crashes can be just as hard as those at high-speed tracks.

"They feel safer today than they ever have," Hunter said. "But I don't think to the extent that they're going to drive willy-nilly. I don't believe that."

But Smith said Kenseth now has no choice but to protect his reputation.

"I guess I don't really care whether NASCAR takes care of it _ or Matt does," Smith said.

Driver Jeff Burton, a former teammate of Kenseth's, said such incidents put NASCAR officials in a tough spot. They want to maintain order, but know aggressive racing is part of the sport's appeal.

"If you black flag somebody every time somebody causes a problem, then the drivers become afraid to do anything and you have boring races," Burton said.

Not a big fan of paybacks, Burton said drivers must police themselves.

"If you feel like you've been mistreated, you've got to go aggressive and you've got to do it in whatever way you think is effective," he said.

[Fosco33]

Nice to see Dick Trickle - the funniest name in sports - to be back near my hometown track.

Slinger Speedway was so much fun to go to as a kid. I could hear the races from my house as a young child.

Also glad to see NASCAR officials looking at those incidents. But, what the hell is 10K gonna do to change behavior when you make 200-300 for one race win. I say, raise the stakes or limit their ability to be in the postseason races...

[chain_gang]

My question is this, everybody likes to tear guys like gordon, harvick, kenseth apart when they "wreck" another car, however, you see guys like Stewart and Jr. doing this shit week in and week out, and nobody cares. Remember when Stewart threw that fit at the Daytona 500, that the other drivers are going to get someone killed out there. I do and I also remember Stewart being the aggressive driver out there.

Back in the 1990's and throughout his career Earnhardt Sr. used to wreck people on the last lap of a race for the win, nobody bitched and moaned then.

In my opinion, since Nextel has taken over, Nascar is turning into a load of shit. It says a lot about it when you best race of the year is the Road Course in Sears Point(At least to me it was). I used to a pretty big race fan, now I see myself turning it on if I need a good sunday nap to recover from the saturday night hangover.

A side note though, at least this makes an interesting storyline. Now if someone would grow some balls and stand up to stewart the next time he gets out of hand.


It's also the first year I can remember a Daytona race being a snoozer. I now see myself saying during the race, at the boring 1.5 mile tracks, Someone just make a god damn right turn already.

Now for the people that enjoy this style of racing, where you don't want to see any action, and want the drivers to all get along and have no rivalries, I apologize, it's just my view. Nascar is just another sport where the $ signs have ruined it for me, just like baseball has.

[Bretsky]

Kenseth questions Gordon's apology
By DAVE KALLMANN

dkallmann@journalsentinel.com
Posted: July 14, 2006
Matt Kenseth and Jeff Gordon talked this week but didn't exactly clear the air.

The two met during testing at the Indianapolis Motor Speedway to discuss Gordon's bump-and-run pass for the lead Sunday in the Nextel Cup Series race at Chicagoland Speedway.

Kenseth walked away still certain that he got spun on purpose, unsure of where he and the four-time champion stand and as confused as ever about what NASCAR considers acceptable from drivers in terms of bumping, blocking and behavior on restarts.

"We talked about it after Indy, but honestly when we talked about it, it was kind of one of them things where he came over and apologized but wasn't very apologetic, if you know what I mean," Kenseth said Friday at New Hampshire International Speedway. "He almost acted like he was mad at me."

Still, Kenseth said, it's time for the two to move on.

"Somebody's got to be the man about it and forget about it and try to remember what's most important, why we come to the track," said Kenseth, the 2003 champion from Cambridge, Wis. "We come to the track to try and win races and try to win championships.

"If you're focused on something else, I don't think you're going to do the best job you can at what you're supposed to be doing."

Gordon, a four-time title-holder, was closing quickly on Kenseth in the waning laps of the USG Sheetrock 400 when they came upon Casey Mears' lapped car. Gordon accelerated more quickly off Turn 2, smacked Kenseth's car in the left rear and sent him spinning.

Gordon went on to win the race and Kenseth, who had to pit for gas under the resulting caution flag, ended up 22nd. Kenseth held on to second in the points behind Jimmie Johnson, and Gordon climbed to 10th.

Kenseth didn't see the move as simple desperation from a man trying to qualify for the Chase for the Nextel Cup, NASCAR's 10-man, 10-race pseudo-playoff.

In Kenseth's mind, the bump was payback for an incident earlier this season at Bristol (Tenn.) Motor Speedway and for the way Kenseth blocked Gordon down to the apron on a restart a few laps earlier at Chicagoland.

The Bristol episode was a different situation, Kenseth said, because of circumstances and intent, and the restart is an altogether separate argument.

At Bristol, Kenseth had just been knocked from the lead by Kurt Busch when Gordon nudged him again and passed him. Then Kenseth hit Gordon and spun him, accidentally, Kenseth insisted.

Bumps happen all the time at a half-mile track such as Bristol, and they don't always lead to spins. It's rare, though, for someone to get rear-ended at a 175-mph mile-and-a-half track, such as Chicagoland, and avoid spinning.

"I probably hit him half as hard as he hit me at Bristol, and he spun out," Kenseth said. "It was just bad timing, barely touched him, and I was trying to get by him on the last lap, so I think that's quite a bit different. But everybody's going to have their opinions about it."

Kenseth approached Gordon immediately after the race to apologize, and Gordon responded by shoving him. NASCAR placed both drivers on probation.

"I look at the Bristol incident and this incident as so similar, and he came up to me and apologized to me and said he was sorry, didn't mean to do it, and I was fuming for a long time after that," Gordon said. "But you have to move on and go on.

"People can believe me or not but that wasn't payback. It really wasn't. It was racing hard, and it just happened to be a guy that I had an incident with earlier in the season."

As for the restart at Chicagoland, Kenseth has argued all week that he would not have had to block Gordon if Gordon had not hung back to get a jump. The practice is not allowed by NASCAR but perpetrators rarely are penalized.

"I felt like he hung way back, and I knew I could get away in a couple of laps," Kenseth said. "I thought that was kind of a cheap way to pass somebody, by holding back, which a lot of people do because they never enforce it."

Kenseth also had several run-ins this year with two-time and defending champion Tony Stewart.

Although he would prefer to steer clear of such episodes, Kenseth did concede that conflict is good for the sport in terms of the interest it generates.

What Kenseth struggles with, though, is NASCAR's reaction.

"I read (NASCAR President Mike) Helton's comments afterwards, and he said it was a case of a slower car being in front of a faster car and the fast car moved him out of the way, and acted like that was OK," Kenseth said. "So is that OK?

"Is that OK if somebody gets spun out at Michigan and gets hurt? Is that all right? And, it's the closing laps, is that OK or not OK? Is it not OK halfway through the race?

"I don't really understand that so I probably need clarification."

[4and12to12and4]

This is my first year watching Nascar and I am loving it. In trying to figure out who I wanted to root for, I liked that Kenseth is from WI and I love his car. The second race I watched was the one that Stewart basically bumped Kenseth off the track and Kenseth passed him coming out of the pits and flipped him off. AWESOME!! I'm falling in love with Nascar, and the more I watch the more I like it. I see that Kenseth is less than 100 points from the point lead. Could someone explain how winning the championship works?

[HarveyWallbangers]

Basically, it's 26 regular season races. The top 10 drivers get into the playoffs--called "The Chase". Only the top 10 at that time are competing for the championship in the last 10 races. The big thing is to get into The Chase. There's an advantage in points by qualifying higher in the regular season, but it's not anywhere close to insurmountable. The one thing that has not changed with "The Chase" is the importance of being consistent over being a winner. You get a couple of bad results, and it's nearly impossible to make up the difference. That happened to Kenseth last year.

Other Wisconsin drivers are Scott Wimmer and Todd Kluever. Wimmer runs for a lower tier organization--while Kluever is just getting his feet wet with Rousch Racing. Rousch has grown an affinity for Wisconsin talent--Robbie Reiser, Kenseth's crew chief, is also from Wisconsin.

[Little Whiskey]

harv, don't forget kvapil. he is also from wisconsin. I'm not sure if i misunderstood, but you don't get points for qualifiing.

4-12-12-4, here is some more info on the chase and points. after the "regular Season" is over the top ten in points (or 400points out of first) advance to The Chase (aka playoffs). the points for these drivers are reset to 5 point increments. first place is 50points higher than tenth place. who ever is in the lead in points at the end of the 10 races is the champion. history has shown that usually you get only one bad race during the chace. anymore and you are out of contention. the rest of the drivers race for 11th place. whoever takes 11th wins $1 million. Initially i was very skeptical of the chase. I thought it was a knee jerk reaction to the fact that kenseth won the championship while only winning one race the previous year. it has really grown on me now. it sound like they are looking at making some changes for next year. some are needed, but nothing drastic.

[HarveyWallbangers]

I'm not sure if i misunderstood, but you don't get points for qualifiing.

You answered yourself here.


after the "regular Season" is over the top ten in points (or 400points out of first) advance to The Chase (aka playoffs). the points for these drivers are reset to 5 point increments

The advantage is minimal, but there is an advantage for what place you are in after the "regular season."

[HarveyWallbangers]

harv, don't forget kvapil.

I didn't realize Kvapil was from Wisconsin also.


Initially i was very skeptical of the chase. I thought it was a knee jerk reaction to the fact that kenseth won the championship while only winning one race the previous year.

Yeah, it seems they forgot that he won 5 races the year before and didn't win. Nobody ever points that out. Kenseth never gets the respect he deserves.

[Little Whiskey]

harv, don't forget kvapil.

I didn't realize Kvapil was from Wisconsin also.



yep, he is from janesville. the other driver i forgot to mention is Paul Menard, even though he accationally drives the cup cars. He is from eau claire.


4-12-12-4, tell me who you like in football? what players do you like? maybe i can get a better sense of who you like to root for and maybe help you find a driver.

[Fosco33]

Stewart was at it again - and this time (as I posted above) - his actions not only were dangerous (and admitedly he was responsible) but they took out a second driver (who now has little/no shot at the playoff/raceoff).

Dude needs to go the anger management - and if this continues, throw his dumbass out of these races - before he kills somebody (as he fricken predicted!).... now, is deuschbag or or two words???

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/racing/07/24/stewart.ap/index.html


As the defending Nextel Cup champion, the platform is Stewart's to do and say what he wants and he's repeatedly used it this season. But his messages are so mixed that he's struggling to keep his audience.

His dire warning at Daytona that someone was going to be killed if NASCAR didn't curb aggressive driving certainly caught everyone's attention, including the sanctioning body, which implemented a policing system.

But Stewart was the very first violator of the new guidelines, intentionally crashing into Matt Kenseth during the season-opening race.

He then spent the first quarter of the season feuding with Kyle Busch, whom he accused of being too wild on the race track and tuning out Stewart's veteran's advice.

And just last week, the driver who wants everyone to give-and-take on the race track refused to give Ryan Newman an inch of space to pass him.

[Little Whiskey]

Stewart is finger pointer. never takes responsiblity. if he doesn't give some one room, thats because that is how they race. if someone doesn't give him room, he wrecks them. he needs to be sat down for a couple weeks. no doubt homedepot will put alot of pressure on gibbs to solve his "problem" The thing about nascar is that every drive and owner answer to someone. that is the sponser who answers to the fans. no other sport has that responsiblity. big dollar sponser are hard to come by, if nascar sits stewart they don't get the advertising that they paid for and they will find a competitive driver who will not get them left out on sundays. this is all contingent on Nascar wanting to stop his type of driving. the only other way to fix this problem is to let the drivers self police. It will happen. Stewart will get his. if you make too many enemies, you won't finish well. there are ways to make it a "racing deal" when they take him out. I was surprised they parked him for a lap. but really what did that do?? he had a top car and easily made up the lap, since his penalty came early enough in the race.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Kenseth had a solid car and a good pit crew. By the end, Jimmie Johnson and his team made the necessary adjustments and had a dominant car. Matt beat himself up a bit for getting caught up in lapped traffic, but it was pretty inevitable that Johnson was going to pass him. Kenseth did well to hold off a couple of cars that were a little faster at the end.

[Little Whiskey]

I agree with you harv, even if kenseth were able to get thru traffic cleaner, i doubt he would have been able to hold off or catch johnson. if there had been another caution with those two up front kenseth might have been able to pass jimmie, and block him for a victory, but jimmie's car was tops in the field.

this weeks race is watkins glenn. the other road course. tough to pass.

[4and12to12and4]

I can't believe Harvick passed Stewart, I thought Stewart had it won. By the way, I don't care for Stewart, as I am a Kenseth follower, but I am new to Nascar and I was bitching to a buddy of mine about Stewart's agressive style, and he said that everyone who says that about him are a bunch of hypocrites, because he drives the same way Earnhardt Sr. drove, and he was a hero, and considered one of the greatest of all time. I never saw him, is there truth to that?

[Little Whiskey]

4th, the thing is that not everyone used to adore Sr. they way they seem to now. in a way his tragic death immortalized him. and everyone who was a nascar or closet nascar fan automatically became a fan after his death. i'm trying to think of a football example, but am drawing a blank right now. oh i got one. think of him along the lines of pat tillman. once he was killed in action, everyone became a fan of his. it is very similar to they way everyone adores Darrel Waltrip. back when he was racing he wasn't liked by all. now he is the lovable idiot. times change people's minds.

the other thing is that just because you drive "aggresive" doesn't mean that they should be mentioned in the same breath as Sr. the only other driver to have as many championships as Dale Sr. is Richard Petty. and even a newby to the sport as you claim, i bet you have heard of him before. Kevin Harvick and Kurt Busch drove "aggresive" (some would agrue reckless). i wouldn't mention their names in the same list as Sr. I believe these two drivers have gotten a bit of preasure from their sponsers and owners to behave on the track or else. if they put this same presure on stewart, i would guess that he would change his attitude.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Personally, I despised Earnhardt Sr. before his death. I like his son more. He seems to be pretty grounded for a rich kid. That tells me Sr. or his Mom did a good job raising him.

[MJZiggy]

Who is Jeff Burton?

[Little Whiskey]

He drive the 31 cingular car. orange and black paint scheme. which is owned by RCR (richard Childress Racing). he is on the same team as Kevin Harvick. He used to race for Rousch a few years back. He drove the 99 car. the spot now filled by Edwards. he did very well early on for rousch but came upon a dry spell for a while. he lost his sponser and i think he thought he was going to lose his ride. so he jumped at the opportunitee with RCR. he started off pretty slow but has turned things around this year. i always have liked him he is a very clean and smart driver. very well spoken and gives good insight when he helps out on the broadcasts. he has a future ahead of him after he is done racing. His brother is ward burton. he used to drive the Cat. car. if you ever heard ward talk you will know who he is. imagine someone talking with their mouth full of marbles. that was ward burton. another well liked driver. is that what you were looking for??

[HarveyWallbangers]

I like Burton, as well.

If I had to rank my favorite drivers, they would be:

1) Matt Kenseth
2) Bobby Labonte
3) Carl Edwards
4) Dale Jr.
5) Jeff Burton

My least favorite drivers:

1) Kurt Busch
2) Tony Stewart
3) Kyle Busch
4) Ryan Newman
5) Jimmie Johnson--just because he's from California and he has some shady things going on in his garage.

I like Jeff Gordon in a lot of ways. I just can't get myself to like somebody who drives the Rainbow Warrior car. Plus, he's from Illinois. I guess I hate him too.
:D

[MJZiggy]

I think so. My kid "won" a banner at the fair and Burton's 99 is the one he chose.

[Little Whiskey]

they must have gotten a good deal on those banners since he hasn't been in that car for 2 or 3 years. but now you have a driver to root for. not a bad pick. just make sure you change the number to a 31

harv, i think gordon is from Indiana, not Ill. doesn't really matter they are both FIB's states anyhow.

[HarveyWallbangers]

It says Gordon was born in California, but I'm pretty sure he's from Illinois. Could be wrong though. They usually only play up the Stewart's hometown status at Indy amongst the big boys.

I can't find the facts, but I found this:

"Other Illinois tracks have hosted NASCAR drivers Kenny Schrader and Jeff Gordon as young men."

Actually, I found out he was born in Cali, but claims his home start as Indiana, so you are right. However, he did race on Illinois tracks in his youth, so he's a FIB.
:D

[Little Whiskey]

However, he did race on Illinois tracks in his youth, so he's a FIB.
:D

like i said before, calling Indiana your home makes you a FIB anyway. you just travel north to a different state.

Michigan has FIB's too. they are just from Indiana

[HarveyWallbangers]

From WSJ:

"NASCAR Nextel Cup driver Matt Kenseth, a Cambridge native, will be visiting [Packers] practice today."

[Deputy Nutz]

Did any of you catch those race hooligans that stole the guys race car while he was recieving some kind of award? It was ESPN. One of the funniest things I have seen all year.

[4and12to12and4]

What a race today in Michigan! Matt Kenseth with another top 5!!!! Yahoo!! Keep those points a comin'!! Stewart finshed 11th unofficially. I'm new to Nascar, and am looking for opinions from the ol' vets here about that finish. I didn't think it was Jrs. fault. Edwards' car was a bit sideways, and the 88 was right next to him, so no where else for him to go. What is he suppose to do, put the brakes on? What do you guys think?

[HarveyWallbangers]

Wasn't it the Busch race? If so, it doesn't really mean much. Michigan is a great track for Kenseth. In fact, I read that he has the best career average finish at Michigan of any driver.

[Little Whiskey]

your righ harv, yesterday was the busch race. that is funny that the top finishers were all from the Cup series.

I think Jr. could have avoided the wreck, but instead took out edwards. it was a bit of "days of thunder" with edwards comming back on the track and slamming into jr. pretty funny!!

i am looking for kenseth to have a good race today. not only does he finish well at Mich. but all the 1.5 mile tracks

[Little Whiskey]

matt had another one of his typical mich races!!! he won the damn thing!!!!!gordon was closing in but never really had a shot. if they had thrown the caution flag for those cars that blew out a tire, jeff might have been able to pass him after the restart. Gordon's comment after the race was pretty good. he said that he wanted to catch and pass kenseth so that people would know that he could pass matt cleanly instead of wrecking him. i doubt it. any way good race and kenseth closed in on jimmie today. who must still have that horseshoe wedged up his ass. since he blew out a tire on the second lap and had to make a full lap and green flag pit stop. he was a lap down but shortly after the caution came out and he was able to make up his lap.

[digitaldean]

matt had another one of his typical mich races!!! he won the damn thing!!!!!gordon was closing in but never really had a shot. if they had thrown the caution flag for those cars that blew out a tire, jeff might have been able to pass him after the restart. Gordon's comment after the race was pretty good. he said that he wanted to catch and pass kenseth so that people would know that he could pass matt cleanly instead of wrecking him. i doubt it. any way good race and kenseth closed in on jimmie today. who must still have that horseshoe wedged up his ass. since he blew out a tire on the second lap and had to make a full lap and green flag pit stop. he was a lap down but shortly after the caution came out and he was able to make up his lap.

Great to see Kenseth get another one. He has been a model of consistency for most of the season. Would've been nice to have him "nudge" Gordon :mrgreen: if he would've gotten close. Would've made up for the cheap shot at the Brickyard.

[Little Whiskey]

its the sharpie 500 on saturday. thats bristol baby. short track racing where things will get heated. make sure you tune in. 7pm on tnt. bristol at night is like nothing else. it'll be exciting!!!

[FavreChild]

LW, where have you been? I am drinking a Red Bull cocktail right now - just for you. (Well, really just for ME.)

[Little Whiskey]

sorry FC, I've got a new job. it keeps me out of the office quite a bit so i cannot check in as regularly.

remember where my loyalties are at.....i do not drink red bull!!! its rockstar!!! besides i believe red bull is going to start sponsering a toyota in nascar. and i have decided to boycot all sponsers of toyota. no more burger king, ups and napa!! damn those foreigners comming in and ruining our sport!! :mrgreen: :mrgreen: j/k my red neck is just glowing a little bright this afternoon. THATS BECAUSE ITS BRISTOL BABY!!!!!

well time to get back to the ole john deer. my back yard looks like a hayfield with all this rain we've had the past couple days.

[FavreChild]

LW, it doesn't really matter what brand of energy drink you use, as long as it has booze mixed in it. :cool:

I'll be in the same boat as you when I go back to work full time next week, too. Damn work, always getting in the way of stuff.

[digitaldean]

Woo-hoo!!

Another win for #17!!! :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

Great to see him clinch a spot in the Chase too.

Jr. helped his cause tonight to with a great finish.

[Little Whiskey]

i dont' think there has been anybody as consistant as jimmie johnson and Matt kenseth. even with the chase formate i think it will be a two pony race. it was nice to see stewart finish two laps down. and gordon in controversy again. gordon is blocking his posistion and holding up a faster car. Scott riggs should have dumped him like gordon did to kenseth in chicago. kinda funny that a rookie can pass a vet cleaner at bristol than a vet could pass at the 1.5 mile track of chicago! then he wants to start a shouting match after the race.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Kenseth is leading The Chase standings now. Kasey Kahne won. Talented, young driver. He's not bad looking, so it wasn't surprising--but his Mom looked like a MILF to me.
:D

At first, I was thinking his girlfriend isn't bad, but she looks a little old for him. Then, the announcers said it was his Mom.
:D

[digitaldean]

Kenseth is leading The Chase standings now. Kasey Kahne won. Talented, young driver. He's not bad looking, so it wasn't surprising--but his Mom looked like a MILF to me.
:D

At first, I was thinking his girlfriend isn't bad, but she looks a little old for him. Then, the announcers said it was his Mom.
:D

Harv, what a keen eye you have! :mrgreen:

[Little Whiskey]

i was looking for this thread. thanks for bumpin it up harv. did you get to see the race this weekend? i'd like a quick recap. i missed it due to a wedding this weekend. anything exciting? i was pretty pumped that matt is now leading the points. doesn't really matter after next week. he'll just be five points up on jimmie. its kinda disapointing that only kasey has a chance to get into the chase. that means only one of the remaining 8 drivers could be bumped out. next week won't be as exciting as it has been years past. i'd really like to see mark martin win the whole damn thinkg this year. it would be great to see him finally get his championship.

[digitaldean]

Sorry for the double post,

Had to mention something about Kenseth's season.

I hope and pray he wins the championship. It was so tiring hear the naysayers in 2003. He was the best driver, period.

Not sure the types of tracks left that suit his style, but he's been consistent enough that he's got better than an avg. shot to win it.

EDIT: Little Whiskey, came down to the final laps and REED SORENSON of all drivers had the lead with less than 5 laps to go. (Kahne led the most laps, even though he got a pit penalty)

Sorenson took a gamble on not refueling toward the end, but he ran out of fuel at the start of the final lap and Kahne won.

[HarveyWallbangers]

I saw that you were online and hadn't bumped this, so I helped you out. Plus, I had been meaning to post that tidbit about Kahne's Mom.

The race? Well, I watched off and on. It's actually an interesting race. With the daylight and then night racing, it's actually like two different races. Most cars were good in one condition, not so good in the other. Kahne was one of the few that had a great car in both. Best car won. Pit strategy played a big part, but the track is kind of interesting too. You can run about 3 or 4 different lines there. The racing wasn't that interesting, but I could see where it could be.

[Little Whiskey]

they have a good mix of tracks in the chase. but you are right matt has been very consistant this year and at a wide variety of tracks so he has a great shot. the problem is...so has jimmie johnson. i really think it is going to be a two horse race. unless bad luck strikes. either of those two really deserve to win this thing. however, i'd rather not see jimmie win. but that is just me. there is only four drivers i don't want to win the championship. jj, gordon, busch, and jr. after matt and mark. i wouldn't be disappointed if someone else one.

[HarveyWallbangers]

I hope and pray he wins the championship. It was so tiring hear the naysayers in 2003. He was the best driver, period.

Not to mention he led the series in wins the year before, but finished like 6th or something. He proved he could win races the year before, but learned that consistency is what wins championships. He's very underrated. He gets another championship and people will have to give him his due.

[Little Whiskey]

i agree harv. he is one of the most underrated drivers in the sport. he wins races, finishes well, and still hardly gets his "props". they would rather interview Michael waltrip cause he is good for a laugh or jr since everyone worships the ground he walks on. and neither of those two have done shit yet. hell waltrip can't win a non-restrictor plate race. and you would have thought he was the second comming of richard petty when he signed his deal with toyota.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Friggin' Tony Stewart missed the Chase. Awesome! Karma, bee'otch!

Matt Kenseth goes in #1. Doesn't mean much, but means he'll start with 5 more points than the second place guy and like 45 more points than the 10th place guy.

Great friggin' race tonight. The race wasn't that great, but the fact there were like 6 drivers so close to each there made it great. A few of those drivers (Hamlin, Dale Jr., Gordon) were having mechanical difficulties, but hung on.

Great job done by Kasey Kahne at the end of the year. He's a rising star.

[Fosco33]

Friggin' Tony Stewart missed the Chase. Awesome! Karma, bee'otch!

Matt Kenseth goes in #1. Doesn't mean much, but means he'll start with 5 more points than the second place guy and like 45 more points than the 10th place guy.

Great friggin' race tonight. The race wasn't that great, but the fact there were like 6 drivers so close to each there made it great. A few of those drivers (Hamlin, Dale Jr., Gordon) were having mechanical difficulties, but hung on.

Great job done by Kasey Kahne at the end of the year. He's a rising star.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

[Little Whiskey]

yep it was a good race....for the chase ramifications. otherwise the race itself was kinda boring. (other than harvick passing busch on the second to last lap) but i think the fight for the chase adds the drama to this race. I wished there were more drivers outside of top ten that where in a position to break into the chase. with only one going in you knew that only one had the possiblity of dropping out. If, like in years past, there were a few drivers on the bubble, we might have gone two years on a row without a gordon or earnhardt in the top ten in points.

the three guys that harv mentioned were trying all they could to miss the chase. jr had brake problems. they mentioned that he might not have had rear breaks at all. hamlin was only running on 7 cylinders. he had a plug wire melt. and gordon.....well he just doesn't run very well at richmond. he had a typical gordon at richmond run. he finished well towards the back.

I am very happy to see stewart miss the chase....couldn't happen to a nicer guy. i actually was rooting for gordon to maintain enough points to keep him in and stewart out.


soo who are you guys pulling for, for the championship? well, if you have been a reader of this thread you know that i for one will be rooting for kenseth. I won't however be disappointed in Martin or Burton win the championship.

[HarveyWallbangers]

soo who are you guys pulling for, for the championship? well, if you have been a reader of this thread you know that i for one will be rooting for kenseth. I won't however be disappointed in Martin or Burton win the championship.

Kenseth. That's it. If somebody else has to win, there are guys I like more than others (e.g. Burton or Martin). However, I'll only be really happy if Kenseth wins it all.

[Fosco33]

soo who are you guys pulling for, for the championship? well, if you have been a reader of this thread you know that i for one will be rooting for kenseth. I won't however be disappointed in Martin or Burton win the championship.

Kenseth. That's it. If somebody else has to win, there are guys I like more than others (e.g. Burton or Martin). However, I'll only be really happy if Kenseth wins it all.

True that - and only b/c I'm a homer :lol:

I love it when a Yankee can do well in a 'southern' sport.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Kenseth won't change much in first Chase race
By MATT KENSETH, For The Associated Press

CHARLOTTE, N.C. (AP) -- Well, the Chase is finally here and now all anyone wants to ask me is, ``How do you approach it?''

For me, it's the same as the 26 races before. This No. 17 team has done a really good job of taking it one race at a time all year. Do I look at the points? Sure. But, I don't dwell on them or think about the different scenarios or anything like that.

Here's what I know: If we can get the car as fast as we possibly can each week, have good pit stops, no part failures, and don't wreck, then we'll consistently have good finishes and things will take care of themselves. I know that first pays more points than second, second more than third, and so on.

We can't control how good other teams run, all we can control is how good our car is and how good the pit stops we have are and how good of race I run. I like the way our team is performing right now, but that doesn't guarantee us anything for the next 10 races. We have to continue to approach it one race at a time.

Crew chief Robbie Reiser and the guys have done a great job in the first 26 races. Overall, our cars this year have been better and more competitive than ever. We've been fortunate to win four races and close enough to win four or five more.

This is the first year where I've felt like we were capable of winning eight to ten races so far. Hopefully, we'll have a chance to win a few more. We're all excited about going into the Chase as the points leader, but we also know that they don't pay anything to the leader after 26 races. We have to continue to perform at the level we're at if we're going to compete for the championship in these final races -- and that all starts at Loudon this weekend.

Kenseth also sat down to answer five questions with AP Auto Racing Writer Jenna Fryer:

Q: NASCAR changed the championship format after your runaway title to ``add excitement.'' Did that offend you?

A: ``Maybe when NASCAR first announced it, it did. They did wait until after New York, after we were done celebrating the championship, and I was thankful for that. But they maybe could have called and told us before they announced it to the media, even if it was just five minutes before. I didn't know anything about it, and all of a sudden I'm getting all these questions about the points system. But looking back, I can see why they did it and I understand that they are trying to compete with the NFL, and I'm actually thankful for it.''

Q: The perception is that your title run was boring, and that you are also boring. Why do people think that about you?

A: ``I don't know and I don't really care, either. From my standpoint being a fan, I think the Busch Series championship is boring. Nothing against Kevin Harvick, but if someone tunes in with five races to go and sees that he already has the title wrapped up, they're going to think that is boring, too. So I understand where people are coming from when they say my title run was boring. NASCAR wants to make it more exciting, and I can totally see that now.''

Q: The top 10 drivers are going to New York City this week to promote the Chase. Since you say you aren't boring, what do you plan to do in the big city?

A: ``Nothing. My media commitments and that's it. Wait, actually, I am getting to go on Letterman, and I always said that was something I wanted to do, so that will be pretty cool. But that's really about it. I'm a country boy, and the things I like to do don't involved bumping elbows with a million people.''

Q: You are a country boy, from tiny Cambridge, Wisc., and I know you are a huge Packers fan. How brutal was their 26-0 loss to the Bears?

``Well, I went to the game and I really enjoy doing that. But me and (wife) Katie went with a couple of friends who are Bears fans, so that was painful. But we got to go down on the field, and see Lambeau Field in September when you aren't freezing your butt off. That part is just awesome, and really gives me an appreciation for the sport and the history and the tradition of the Packers. But the game? That was terrible. Luckily I had gone to Chicago to pick my friends up and fly them to the game, so they didn't dare give me any crap because they knew it would be a long five-hour drive home for them if they did.''

Q: You are playing fantasy football this year, how did opening week go for you?

``Oh, I don't know. I fell asleep! I was winning my game, but the guy I was playing had Randy Moss. I didn't do super great this week because my best player is Chad Johnson and he had a bad week. I need to go so I can find out if I won or lost.'' (He won.)

[Little Whiskey]

okay, well nobody has bumped this thread in a while so while i'm on i might as well take care of it.

this past weeks race was at dover. kenseth tried to hold off a hard charging burton but with older tires simply couldn't. Shortly after he was passed by burton he ran out of gas. however he still finished 10 and is third in the points. during the post race interview you could tell that he was shocked that he ran out of fuel. Sounds like robbie rieser miscaculated. if he knew he was close on fuel i doubt he would have raced burton that tough.
I'd say that both kahne and kyle busch are out of the race with back to back bad races. kahne was no fault of his own, as both wrecks were the result of being caught up in some one elses mistake. This week it was stewarts turn to run out of skill. he spun out by him self and kahne had no where to go. busch simply blew up his engine. if jimmie johnson has another bad finish (lets hope) you might as well count him out too. he is turning into the peyton manning of nascar. after three chase races it looks like RCR will be the team to beat. both harvick and burton are peaking at the right time.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Love the fact they ask him a Packers question each week. I've a read a quote from him in the past where he said that he takes Packer losses harder than his own losses. True Packer fan.

When the tank runs dry
By MATT KENSETH, For The Associated Press

CHARLOTTE, N.C. (AP) -- I guess there's nothing really to talk about this week. Pretty much business as usual last weekend. Nothing too eventful at Dover.

Yeah, right.

Anytime something like this happens -- getting passed for the lead with six laps left, then running out of gas with two to go -- my first reaction is to get upset and frustrated because we should have had at least a second-place finish. But once you take a minute, or in my case a day, to step back and look at things, we're very fortunate to have left Dover with a top-10 finish and only 16 points out of first.

If you would have told me last week that we would go to Dover and run out of gas, I'd probably have said we'd finish around 30th or worse. So the fact that we did run out of gas with two to go, and were still able to coast to pit road, get a splash of gas, and still finish 10th is remarkable.

We're very fortunate for sure.

It was frustrating and still is frustrating because we had the dominant car all day long on Sunday. When you have the dominant car, you need to win, and we didn't get that done. Yeah, we actually cut into the points lead a little, but just think if we could have held on for second: We would be about 30 points clear and in first place in the Chase.

I just hope that it doesn't come back to bite us, but I can't help but feel frustrated with all of those points we left on the table.

I was happy that Jeff Burton won. If I couldn't win, there's honestly no one else I'd rather see win than Jeff. He's a good friend and a great person. I was using a lot of racetrack when we were racing there at the end, but he finally got the bottom groove to work and made the clean pass. He's a great driver and I know that win will mean a lot to him and he deserves it.

One last bright note, because I feel like I'm being too negative -- I'm still extremely pleased with how our cars have been running. Robbie (Reiser, the crew chief) has this team operating at a championship level and the pit stops continue to be fantastic.

We just didn't get it done as a team on Sunday. And if you race long enough, things like that will happen. We're going to Kansas this week where we've had some success in the past, and hopefully we'll bounce back in a big way this weekend.

Kenseth's Q&A with AP Auto Racing Writer Jenna Fryer:

Q: That was a tough loss, and you were pretty hard on Robbie after the race for not pitting for gas. How long does that stuff stay with you? And how do you handle it with Robbie once you've calmed down?

A: ``Well, I don't think I was really hard on Robbie that much. It was dumb not to pit, it cost us and we can't do those things if we want to win a championship. So I was a little hard on all of us. And when I make a mistake, I am hard on me and admit that I screwed up.

``It was tough to take that we gave it away. And after I calmed down, I apologized to Robbie. But Robbie has a way of not letting things go too quick, he doesn't move on too fast. So I said what I had to say and just moved on. That's all you can do, is move on and let it go. It wasn't the smartest move we've made as a group. Now we've gotta be smart enough to move on.''

Q: Great moment after the race when you stopped your car next to Jeff Burton to congratulate him. A lot of other drivers visited him in Victory Lane. I know he's a former teammate of yours, but why the love widespread for Jeff?

A: ``I think Jeff is well respected, he's a great driver and he had been in a little bit of a slump the past few years. It doesn't seem like it had been five years since he won, but it was and that's a long time. Obviously, he's proven himself as a championship contender before, and he had 17 career wins. So when somebody goes through that kind of slump, everybody is happy for him.

``I think the drivers are a pretty close-knit community, so when people say a guy can't drive anymore and it's someone as respected as Jeff as, we all want to see him win again. When he does it makes all of us happy.''

Q: You're big into aviation, and I know that the track is near the Dover Air Force base. Did you get a chance to stop over there? Check out any of the planes?

A: ``I got to go to the Air Force base, and signed some autographs and hung out with a lot of those guys. Then I got to see a C-5, which they say is the biggest airplane in the world. I don't know for sure if that is true, but it is the biggest military airplane. So I got to see the flight deck, and see the things they do for moving a lot of equipment and a lot of people. It's really big when there is no cargo in there. The guys told me they can play football down there in the bottom.''

Q: Dover also has a casino on track property. Did you lighten your wallet at all last weekend?

A: ``I went and donated a little bit. It was my annual donation and I gave most of it up on one machine. But then (wife) Katie went in there and won it all back, so as a group we left even. But my wallet was light and her purse was full. I can't tell you how much.''

Q: Last but not least, big win for your Packers last weekend. Was your fantasy football team as lucky?

A: ``Yeah, it was great the Packers won. Brett Favre looked really sharp, the offense looked really sharp, and Favre threw his 400th touchdown pass and that's just a huge milestone. I think he is more about wins and losses, but it was still great to see him get it. And he threw it to Greg Jennings, who is my receiver in fantasy, so that was great for me, and it helped me get to 3-0 in fantasy this year. So it was all around a great football weekend.''

[digitaldean]

Had to bump this thread back up.

Boy, what a nasty finish at Talladega! Dale Jr. has Jimmie Johnson and Vickers try passing him on turn 3 of the final lap. Dale tries to block them Johnson hits the binders, Vickers rear ends Johnson, sending Johnson into Dale.

Both Dale Jr. and Johnson go into the grass and out of the top 20. Vickers wins the race.

Dale wasn't ticked off. Essentially said, "that's Talladega racing." Flat out said he wasn't that upset. Johnson on the other hand was whining about a teammate knocking him out (Vickers). Vickers is leaving their team (Hendrick) at the end of the year for another. Hendrick has locked him out of team meetings and all sorts of juvenile crap. Don't think Vickers is losing any sleep over this one.

Points leader Jeff Burton got a flat tire near the end of the race and lost a lap to the field. Burton finished out of the top 20 I believe.

Wisconsin's own, Matt Kenseth, lead over 20 laps of the race and finished 4th. He is now ONLY 6 points behind Burton. Mark Martin had a good day and is only 10 behind Burton.

Jeff Gordon :cry: :cry: finished in 35th after getting tangled in an earlier 11-car pileup.

Here are the pts. standings as of now (number in parentheses is amt of movement in top 10)
1. Jeff Burton --
2. (+2) Matt Kenseth -6
3. Mark Martin -10
4. (+1) Kevin Harvick -33
5. (-3) Denny Hamlin -51
6. (+1) Dale Earnhardt Jr. -106
7. (-1) Jeff Gordon -147
8. Jimmie Johnson -156
9. (+1) Kasey Kahne -185
10. (-1) Kyle Busch -185 :mrgreen:

[Little Whiskey]

Thanks for the bump digitaldean, i was hoping i wouldn't have to dig for this thread. with burton's misfortune, it really helped kenseth close in to the lead.

I think the vickers incident ruined Jimmie's hopes for a championship. again he is the payton manning of Nascar. chokes in the playoffs. you can pretty much count out gordon on down. unless the top teams have multiple bad races they are out of it.

the reason vickers is locked out of the meetings (i believe) has more to do with company secrets (more specifically mfg secrets) than juvenile crap. he will be driving a toyota as well next year.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Kenseth moving up in the points
By MATT KENSETH, For The Associated Press
October 10, 2006

CHARLOTTE, N.C. (AP) -- I guess Talladega lived up to the hype. Thankfully, we weren't a part of the drama.

We had a great car and were able to lead some laps, but we just didn't have much help at the end. Still, it was a great points day for us and I moved up to second and am only six points behind Jeff Burton.

We were sitting in sixth for the final 10 laps or so, and I was trying to time my run on Kurt Busch in front of me with the run that Martin Truex was getting behind me. But he was trying to do the same with me and Kevin Harvick, who was running behind him.

Obviously, we never could get in tune.

I knew the 31 (Burton) and the 24 (Jeff Gordon) had some big problems and it was going to end up a pretty good day for us in the points, so part of me was thinking, ``Man, I can't risk jumping out of line and falling all the way back to 20th or something.''

But I had made up my mind to dive low going into turn three on the final lap and just see what happens. I thought, even if no one went with me, I could still salvage a top-10 finish.

But as soon as I took a peek inside, all I could see was the side of the 8 (Dale Earnhardt) and the 48 (Jimmie Johnson). I didn't know what had happened, but I quickly tucked back in line and we ended up finishing fourth, which is probably the best thing that could have happened for us at that point anyway.

It puts us in a good spot for these next few races. After the miserable run we had at Kansas and the disappointment we had at Dover, it was nice to run up front, lead laps and get a top-five finish out of it. This finish definitely helped us gained some much-needed momentum.

Now we're heading to Charlotte, which is one of my favorite tracks on the circuit. My first Cup win was there (in 2000) and we've won the All-Star race there. We're only six points back and in good shape to make a run at the title.

Kenseth's Q&A with AP Auto Racing Writer Jenna Fryer:

Q: What a finish at Talladega. Now that you've seen the replays, what did you think of Vickers taking out the leaders?

A: ``It was unfortunate for Dale Jr. and Jimmie and I hate to see that happen. But in that type of racing, it's always a possibility. The main thing is I doubt that Brian did it on purpose. I think he really intended to push him to the win and it just didn't work out, he just got him at a bad angle. But that's the way those deals go sometimes.''

Q: I think people wonder why Jimmie just didn't sit in second place and take those points, because he really needed them. As a racer, is it possible to just sit back and points race, or is it against everything you believe in to not run for the win?

A: ``No, no, you go for it. I always say the same thing; What's more important, the win or the points? Well, every time I've checked, you get the most points for the win, so you've got to go for the win. You know, the way Jimmie raced that race was really, really smart. He didn't try to get the lead with four laps to go, he waited until the perfect time. He and Vickers had a big lead on fourth place, he had a huge run going, he was going into turn three, so even if he didn't complete the pass, he was still going to get a good finish. The worst he was going to do was finish third. He played it really smart, had nothing to lose, calculated it out and was probably going to win the race. He just didn't expect to get wrecked by his teammate.''

Q: It looks like that accident might really harm the friendship between Vickers and Johnson. Have you ever feuded with a teammate?

A: ``I have had disagreements with teammates and they've had them with me, but we've all worked it out. I can't imagine that someone would turn a teammate on purpose. But I've been on the other side of it, like in Chicago when Jeff Gordon took me out, that was totally intentional. So I totally know how it feels. I've been on the other side of it, too.''

Q: The Gordon situation at Chicago is a little different because he wasn't your teammate. So how is the relationship now?

A: ``I don't know if we've ever had a relationship. We've always known each other, and always raced against each other, but I haven't really been one of his `in' people. I don't get invited to the clubs in New York. But we do race each other clean.''

Q: There's some rumblings that you and crew chief Robbie Reiser may be splitting up at the end of the season, so he can move into a managerial role at Roush Racing. What's going on there?

A: ``I don't know, it looks to be something that (teammate) Greg Biffle started in an interview more than anything and now it's got legs. I only know that Robbie is one of the most talented crew chiefs in the business, and I'm really proud that we have the longest crew chief-driver relationship in the garage. But he's obviously not going to be a crew chief forever. I do hope he keeps doing it for a while, but whatever he wants to do I support him. Robbie has offers from all over the place to go run other teams, and maybe someday he will. Selfishly, I want him to keep doing my deal for a long time.''

Q: Mark Martin is leaving Roush Racing after like 100 years there. What do you think about that?

A: ``I have really mixed emotions on that because I hate to see him leave Roush, he's been here a long time and he's the face of the team. But if that's what he wants to do, and it gives him more flexibility with his schedule, then I am happy for it.''

Q: So if Mark's gone, are you the new face of Roush Racing?

A: ``I don't know if I am ready for that role. I would certainly like to help where I can. But I like to joke that Greg is the new face because he's the oldest. But he's certainly been around a long time and has won a Busch championship and a truck championship, and like I said, he's the oldest. So between me and him, we'll do what we can to help.''

Q: Give me a fantasy football update.

A: ``I won this week, so I am now 4-1. But I play (wife) Katie and her sister, Julie, this week. Their team name is `Twisted Sisters.' Her sister is really into it, and Katie is getting into it, and I've already been talking smack this week. I'm looking forward to the matchup.''

[HarveyWallbangers]

Kenseth: Lucky to still be within striking distance
By MATT KENSETH, For The Associated Press
October 17, 2006

CHARLOTTE, N.C. (AP) -- I have to feel fortunate that, despite finishing two laps down at Lowe's Motor Speedway, I still ended up 14th.

To me, that says:

1. The leaders set a pretty fast pace.
2. There were a lot of teams having problems, us included.
3. As a team, we never gave up.

The third one is the most encouraging sign to me. We had some problems that got us two laps down early and we never could quite recover. We came close and it's kind of frustrating because we had a car that was capable of a top-10 finish, but we could never get back on the lead lap.

I'm not saying we deserved to get our laps back on Saturday, because I'm not sure we did. I guess what I'm saying is neither do the guys that wreck or have problems and go three or four laps down, and just because it's early in the race get the free pass the next four times the caution flag comes out and get back on the lead lap. I think that rule (the ``Lucky Dog'') should be looked at.

This week we're testing at Homestead, and a couple of guys are testing the Car of Tomorrow. I doubt I'll drive it, simply because our sole focus right now is on the championship.

Jeff Burton has been real consistent and we definitely have to pick up our game if we're going to keep pace. If you think about it, had Burton not had a tire problem at the end of the race at Talladega, he'd be up by over 100 points on the field.

Fortunately, we're still in the hunt. I'll feel a lot better once Martinsville is in the rearview mirror. It's been one of our toughest places to run, and that was no different in the spring. We had a good, solid top-10 run going until the brakes went out with under 10 laps to go and we wrecked going into turn one.

Needless to say, that car needed some big-time repairs, but it was pretty good and we've fixed it up to take back this weekend.

I think we've got a better handle on the brake issues that have hurt us a lot of flat tracks this season. We've done a brake test since they went soft on us at New Hampshire, and hopefully everything has been fixed and we'll be in good shape for a solid finish this weekend at Martinsville.

We've been doing a good job about taking it one race at a time, and we'll have to be sure to keep it business as usual this weekend if we want to keep pace.

Kenseth's Q&A with Auto Racing Writer Jenna Fryer:

Q: You fell two laps down so early at Charlotte, never recovered and finished 14th. Was the car that bad? How come you never contended?

A. ``The car was OK, but we certainly weren't going to be a contender to win. I do think we had a top-10 car, but we just had so many issues. Bad timing with the cautions, mistakes on pit road -- we just couldn't get it to roll right for us. It just was one of them nights where you couldn't get anything to go right. It's frustrating, but the best thing, the main thing, is that we forget about it and worry about the things we can control and that's our performance on the track. If our car had been better at the start the other night, we never would have gotten so far behind and fallen into the cycle that we did.''

Q: You said in your post-race interview: ``We'd be kidding ourselves thinking we can win a championship operating like we did tonight.'' You are only 45 points behind leader Jeff Burton, but it sounds like you think it's slipping away.

A: ``I don't think it's slipping away, but it's just a fact that we've got to be better and we're all smart enough to know that. Everyone keeps saying `we're just 45 points out,' but we're not doing anything to put us in position to win a championship. We're only 45 points out because Jeff Burton got a flat tire at Talladega, and some other guys crashed and had problems. We haven't performed at all the way we need to the last few weeks, and we've got to get better. There's only five races left. Time is running out for us.''

Q: So what's the deal with Jeff Burton? Is this his championship to lose now?

A: ``Jeff is smart, a great competitor, and one of the things that he's really got going for him is that everybody has left him alone. He's just kind of doing his own thing and nobody is taking him serious. When the Chase began, he wasn't a favorite to win it. I never heard people picking him to win 10 weeks ago, and that's an advantage. There's not a lot of high expectations on him. He's really sneaking up on the deal. Now is it his to lose? I don't know. I think whoever is leading, people would say it's his to lose. But there are five races left, and a 45-point lead isn't really that many points. That's one flat tire. One loose lug nut. That's a lot of races to put together, five perfect races. If they have one slip-up, that's 45 points.''

Q: What about your teammate, Mark Martin? After his crash at Charlotte he said he doesn't think he's ever meant to win a championship. Do you think he's cursed?

A: ``I don't think there's any such thing as being cursed. But I think there is something to be said about not being too optimistic or too pessimistic. You just go out there and do the best you can. You don't give up because you just don't know what's going to happen. I do believe it's easy to overanalyze this stuff, so you can't get too high or too low. You just worry about the things you can control.''

Q: So last week was the big fantasy football matchup against Twisted Sister, the team owned by your wife and her sister. How did it go?

A: ``I lost. It's been a bad week for me.''

Q: You lost to your wife! Has she been gloating?

A: ``I've been super busy. I went from Charlotte straight to Homestead, where I have been testing for two days. I haven't been around for her to gloat.''

[Little Whiskey]

Well, it was a great sports weekend for me. the pack won sunday and kenseth took the points lead. Too bad for burton who had engine problems. but that made the chase real close. there are 8 drivers who have a chance at winning the whole thing. I'd love to see kenseth win the damn thing without winning a race. lets see how they change it for next year then. maybe the rule will be..."kenseth cannot win the championship."

[HarveyWallbangers]

Matt hasn't been running really well. However, he does have four 1 1/2 mile tracks (cookie cutter tracks that Roush Racing is known for) that he's had good results with in the past.

[Little Whiskey]

your right harv, he has not run well, but he has finished alright. i think he has got a few horse shoes in the car. he was two laps down last week and finished top 15. this past week he was in the back all day but pulled out a 11th place finish. combine that with burtons woes and he takes the points lead.

it was nice to finally see two petty cars up front. both petty and labonte finished top 10 with labonte in 3rd.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Labonte has been running really well: two top 5s, three top 10s the last 4 weeks. His other finish was 17th. It's good to see the #43 car up there.

[FavreChild]

It was a valiant effort, LW, but I don't know that you were successful in converting me into a fan.

In fact, when does the PBA tour start? :mrgreen:

(Sadly, perhaps, I already know the answer to that question!)

P.S. I do hate Jr. and Gordon, though. So maybe you consider that a small victory??

[Iron Mike]

http://www.jaunted.com/files/admin/ar_ep_4_pic2jpg.jpg

Man, I'm SOOOO ready for Kentucky Coalminer team to be eliminated.



Ooooooops, wrong race thread :oops:

[Little Whiskey]

It was a valiant effort, LW, but I don't know that you were successful in converting me into a fan.

In fact, when does the PBA tour start? :mrgreen:

(Sadly, perhaps, I already know the answer to that question!)

P.S. I do hate Jr. and Gordon, though. So maybe you consider that a small victory??

are your following all of the indoctrination rules, fc???? if not then you are not trying hard enough!!

i know it is tough now that the pack is playing, but that is why they invented pic. in pic, or better yet two tv's in the living room. my wife hates it too but its that or sit at the local tavern all afternoon..........on second thought maybe i should make my wife happy!!!! the tavern might not be a bad idea, besides i could drink those rockstar mixers and not feel the effect.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Kenseth `survives' Martinsville to take Chase lead
By MATT KENSETH, For The Associated Press

CHARLOTTE, N.C. (AP) -- I survived Martinsville Speedway, and that's really all we were hoping to do.

We unloaded on Friday and just never could get the car good enough to really compete. We had a car that was about a 20th to 25th-place car, but we did everything else right and were able to pull out a good finish. Robbie Reiser called a great race and the guys were excellent all day in the pits.

If you would have told me last week that we would go to Martinsville and finish 11th, I think my reply would've been, ``I hope so.'' All we were looking to do on Sunday was break even and not lose any ground in the Chase. We ended up in better shape than we had planned on, that's for sure, by taking over the points lead.

It's all down to these last four races and after everything that's happened I feel that we're in pretty good shape and fortunate to be in the position we're in. It's been a sloppy Chase in general, especially for us. I don't think our performance has been near what it was in the first two-thirds of the season, but we still have the points lead and the next four tracks, historically, have been good to us.

Three of the next four races are on mile-and-a-half tracks, and in the past that's been one of our strengths. However, we haven't looked too good in the last two races on those types of tracks, at Lowe's and at Kansas.

At Kansas, we were just bad and at Lowe's we were fast but made too many mistakes. If we're going to have a shot at the title, we have to step up our performance on the 1.5 milers.

Everyone has had trouble in the Chase. I think the reason we're on top right now is because we've had less trouble than the rest. But, it's going to take more than that to win this thing.

Somebody over the next four races is going to step it up, go out and knock off several top-five finishes. Whoever can do that will probably win the title. Hopefully, we're ready to respond and be that team that can go out there, contend for wins, run up front and get the job done in these last four races.

Kenseth's Q&A with AP Auto Racing Writer Jenna Fryer:

Q: You left Martinsville on top of the standings with a 36-point lead over Kevin Harvick. How does it feel to be the points leader?

A: ``I don't know. I guess I feel fortunate to be leading considering how we ran the first six. But I don't have that much confidence right now. I haven't been running nearly as good as we were before the Chase started. But we have some really good tracks for us coming up, and if we can perform like we did in the first part of the year, I know we'd have a good shot. But if we run the way we have the last few weeks, I don't think we have much of a chance.''

Q: You sound pretty negative -- maybe discouraged is the better word -- and yet you are the points leader despite not running as well as you would have liked. What's your problem? And don't you like your chances at all?

A: ``I've just been pretty disappointed with how the Chase has gone for us because we were so strong before it started. All I can do is put it behind me and just try to start over with these four races to go. I've thought all along that if we can stay within 50 points of the lead, our chances are as good as anybody. But I know it's going to be tough to beat the 48 (Jimmie Johnson). He's been so close the last few years, and he's the only one of us able to click off wins like they are nothing. So we'll just have to see if we can get back to running like we were and compete for this thing.''

Q: I understand you used this week to get away and clear your head a little bit. What are you up to?

A: ``I'm going fishing in the Bahamas with five friends. It's pretty cool, the first time we've ever been able to all get together for a trip like this. We'll be fishing for whatever bites, tuna or something, I guess. But it doesn't have anything to do with the Chase and trying to get away from it. It really was just timing -- it was late in hurricane season, and when my friends could all get off work. It just so happens to fall now, but I do think it will be relaxing.''

Q: So noted motorcycle builder Paul Yafee gave you a custom-made bike before the race in Martinsville. I know you like to ride, and I bet you have a bunch of bikes. Do you wear a helmet? What did you think of Steelers quarterback Ben Roethlisberger not wearing a helmet?

A: ``The bike he built me was pretty cool, and I'm embarrassed to admit that I now have five or six. But (wife) Katie rides with me and we enjoy it. I absolutely always wear a helmet, even though if the state doesn't mandate it you do have a choice. But in the case of Roethlisberger, I know it was legal for him not to wear one, but a lot of kids probably look up to him and that's not the message he should be sending. And it almost ended his career. I'm sure he thinks twice about not wearing one now.''

Q: How did fantasy football go last week?

A: ``Not good. I lost 50-44 to Dave McDonald, the shock specialist. It was my second straight loss, and I'm now in a four-way tie for fifth place.''

[Little Whiskey]

Its that time of year again. the daytona 500 is next weekend, with the twin duels to take place this week. I figured i should dust off this thread.

some story lines to follow this year.

-Dale Jr. to leave DEI?
-how will toyota do?
-tweeks to the points and chase, good or bad?
-car of tomorrow in select races?
-will Kenseth win his 2nd championship?

[digitaldean]

Its that time of year again. the daytona 500 is next weekend, with the twin duels to take place this week. I figured i should dust off this thread.

some story lines to follow this year.

-Dale Jr. to leave DEI?
-how will toyota do?
-tweeks to the points and chase, good or bad?
-car of tomorrow in select races?
-will Kenseth win his 2nd championship?

In the order you have them:
1.) No, I think that it will get resolved, but it could be a HUGE distraction the whole season.
2.) I think Toyota will do OK this year, but I don't think they will qualify all their cars for Daytona. (highest qualifier was 15th and Jarrett will have to use his champion's exemption to get in).
3.) I dislike the additional drivers that can get into the Chase, and I think those who finished in the top 5 should be rewarded higher than just getting an extra 5-10 points.
4.) Car of tomorrow...I don't really know enough about to comment on. But I have read there have been grumblings about it from some teams.
5.) I think he has an excellent shot. The possible penalty of Reiser getting suspended (due to car failing inspection) hurts him in the early going.

[HarveyWallbangers]

http://sports.yahoo.com/nascar/news?slug=rc-checkers061107&prov=yhoo&type=lgns


Under the radar

Once again, as goes Matt Kenseth, so goes Ford. Kenseth was Ford's highest finisher, coming home ninth. It would be a tremendous mistake to underestimate this team's ability to win this year's title. Their strengths far exceed their weaknesses.

Matt quietly goes about his business and wins races, the same way he won his championship a few years back. He seldom makes mistakes and has a near permanent presence in the top 10. He is the only driver to have completed every lap this season. A true mix of talent and intelligence behind the wheel, Matt Kenseth is one of the best drivers I ever competed against. His title hopes could increase if there is depth added to Ford's weekly performance. Considering Chevrolet's dominance in 2007, Kenseth's current position of second in the standings confirms the risk of underestimating this driver or team.

[BallHawk]

Every time I see this thread I always think it's a political thread about ethnic backgrounds. :lol: :lol:

[HarveyWallbangers]

Here's a race post in the race thread. Kind of interesting to read that Reggie White was looking to become a team owner for a minority driver.

http://sports.espn.go.com/rpm/columns/story?seriesId=2&columnist=blount_terry&id=2905158&lpos=spotlight&lid=tab5pos2

NASCAR playing catch-up in its Drive for Diversity
By Terry Blount

INDIANAPOLIS -- Where is NASCAR's Lewis Hamilton?

If Formula One can find a talented black driver and make him a winner, why can't NASCAR?

Those questions came up in light of Hamilton's victory last weekend in the Canadian Grand Prix, when he became the first black driver to win an F1 event.

Hamilton will compete in his first U.S. Grand Prix Sunday at Indianapolis Motor Speedway. F1 officials were concerned how this season would go without seven-time champion Michael Schumacher, who retired after the 2006 season.

No need to worry. Outside of Dale Earnhardt Jr.'s contract saga, Hamilton is the talk of the racing world.

NASCAR officials say they desperately want a driver like Hamilton who can win at the Nextel Cup level, but it's still a long way from becoming a reality.

Forty-three drivers will start the Cup race Sunday at Michigan -- 42 Caucasian American men and one South American male (Juan Pablo Montoya).

No African-Americans, no Hispanic Americans, no Asians and no women. Not exactly the picture of diversity.

NASCAR officials all say they hate it and they're doing everything they can to change it. But four years into NASCAR's Drive for Diversity program, the sport remains a long way from reaching its diversity goals.

"People ask us when we're going to get our Tigers Woods,'' said Andrew Giangola, NASCAR's director of business communications. "We don't know. This isn't going to happen overnight, but we're doing all we can to make it happen."

Giangola works in New York at NASCAR's Manhattan offices.

"I'm in my fifth year here now," Giangola said. "I can tell you that literally every sponsor meeting we have includes the topic of diversity. And in almost every marketing meeting, diversity is discussed. Diversity now is ingrained as part of our business."

But it has yet to show on the racetrack. The Indy Racing League has Danica Patrick and two other women -- Sarah Fisher and Milka Duno -- in the usual 20-car field for an IndyCar Series event.

The series also has three South American drivers -- Helio Castroneves, Vitor Meira and Tony Kanaan, along with Japanese racer Kosuke Matsuura.

IRL president Brian Barnhart was asked why they've had more success with diversity than NASCAR.

"That's tough to respond to because I don't know enough about how they do it," Barnhart said. "What we try to do is create opportunities for drivers by encouraging more participation.

"But Indy-car racing is a bit of a different animal. Just by running more road races and street races we appeal to different people. And the Indy 500 always has been somewhat of an international sweepstakes. The dynamic itself is more diverse."

That's certainly true for F1, which now has Hamilton, the first black racer in the history of the sport.

Hamilton is leading the F1 standings entering Sunday's race. He could become the first rookie to win the championship.

But Hamilton didn't reach F1 through any diversity program. His father started him in go-kart racing at age 6. Hamilton met McLaren team owner Ron Dennis when he was 10, and Dennis signed him to a developmental deal when he was 13.

Nine years later, after much success at lower levels, Hamilton is being touted as the best rookie in F1 history.

NASCAR hopes to find its Hamilton through a similar route. The goal isn't to put a diversity driver in a car and have that person run 30th every week.

That's been done. The goal is to develop young drivers who can win at the Cup level.

"Nobody is going to start racing at age 21 and be successful in the Cup series," said Ramsey Poston, NASCAR director of corporate communications. "Whether they are black, white or brown, all successful drivers started by the age of 10, and most were racing cars by the time they were 6 or 7."

The NASCAR diversity program is designed to find those kids and help them move up.

Former NBA player Brad Daugherty was one of the founders of NASCAR's Drive for Diversity program. He helped develop the program with NASCAR chairman Brian France.

Daugherty was one of the first African-Americans to own a team in NASCAR, fielding entries in the Craftsman Truck Series.

"I can tell you with all sincerity this is something NASCAR officials desperately want to make work," Daugherty said. "But it's a very difficult thing to do."

Daugherty believes NASCAR is headed in the right direction, but he also realizes the D for D program has its critics.

"The typical investment in each of these kids is about $150,000," said Daugherty, a NASCAR analyst for ESPN. "I realize that's a significant amount of money, but it's not enough. It takes a lot more to get a kid from the grassroots level to become contender for a Nextel Cup ride."

Daugherty said he told Brian France that it would take a bigger investment if NASCAR hoped to get a diversity driver to the Cup level quickly. But is it NASCAR's responsibility to finance diversity drivers?

"It's a difficult question," Daugherty said. "The cost to run a full season competitively at the Grand National level is about $750,000 a year. But is it fair for NASCAR to spend the money to help along the diversity kids and not other deserving young racers?"

NASCAR's position on subsidizing drivers is clear.

"Absolutely not," Poston said. "We don't sponsor drivers. As a sanctioning body, that's not fair and it's not the right thing to do. What we're doing is building a system where these kids can succeed. We are the bridge."

NASCAR is so sensitive about the appearance of any impropriety that it has an independent firm -- Access Marketing -- run the diversity program.

"Imagine if we funded a driver from start to finish and he became a Nextel Cup champion?" Giangola said. "How would all the other drivers feel about that?"

NASCAR officials say their mission is to get sponsors and team owners to foot the bill by buying into the concept that diversity is good for everyone.

NASCAR legend Rusty Wallace is doing it. He signed Chase Austin, a 17-year-old African-American and one of the top young racers in the country. Austin races in the Grand National East Series for Wallace, who also owns a Busch team. His son, Steve, is a rookie driver for that team.

Maybe the best example of a Cup team that embraces the diversity effort is Joe Gibbs Racing. JGR has two of the top diversity candidates -- Marc Davis and Aric Almirola -- in its development program.

"We started it five or six years ago with [former NFL star] Reggie White," said J.D. Gibbs, president of JGR. "We had a goal of using diversity drivers, Almirola at the time, and have them move up to Busch and eventually Cup with Reggie as the team owner."

White died before that dream became a reality. But Almirola, a Hispanic racer from Tampa, now races in the Busch Series for JGR.

"We realized a long time ago it was the right thing to do," Gibbs said of JGR's diversity effort. "It just makes sense. For NASCAR to continue to grow, you need kids from all backgrounds to feel passionate about it."

Davis, who is black, represents what NASCAR wants to see. He's 17 and has raced at various levels since he was 7. His father, Harry Davis, believes Marc can become a successful driver in Cup.

"I call Marc my million-dollar baby," Davis said. "But it's not what you think. What I mean is it's going to cost us $1 million over 10 years to get him where he wants to go."

Davis is a retired network news cameraman who has guided his son's career. He said NASCAR's diversity program isn't perfect, but people shouldn't view it as the ultimate solution.

"No one entity will do it," Davis said. "Drive for Diversity is one part of it. But anyone who depends on that to get them there isn't going to make it. That's a short vision. You bet on the wrong thing.

"It's a tool among 100 other tools. It's a building block, but it's not a be-all end-all. You have to go into it knowing it has limitations. The program has some baggage. It has gone through some growing pains."

Davis gave an example of the system's flaws.

"If a team owner gets $150,000 for a diversity program kid, he might take $75,000 for overhead and leave only $75,000 to run the program," Davis said. "I know that has happened. I've seen it.

"And the equipment a kid has in the diversity program isn't good enough to compete at the level they are trying to compete."

Despite the problems, Davis has no beef with the D for D program. It got his son noticed and got him the deal with Gibbs.

Gibbs also has 17-year-old Joey Logano, who many in NASCAR believe is the best teenage racer in America. He defeated Daytona 500 winner Kevin Harvick in a late-model race at Iowa Speedway a few weeks ago.

Logano is white. Logano and Davis have raced each other since they were in grade school. JGR is investing more than $750,000 each in Logano and Davis.

Logano has three victories this season in the Grand National East Series and Davis has three top-5s. Both drivers could move up to the Busch Series next year when they turn 18, depending on sponsorship.

Harry Davis believes both drivers will make it to the Cup level in the next five years, but their impact won't be the same.

"Joey Logano is going to be a Cup driver like Tony Stewart or Jeff Gordon," Davis said. "That's great, but Marc is going to change the sport."

Davis said Joe Gibbs gave him an example of how big Marc can become.

J.D. Gibbs took over JGR when his father went back to coaching the Washington Redskins, but Joe still oversees the operation.

"Coach Gibbs wants to do with Marc what he did with Doug Williams,'' Davis said.

Williams was the first black quarterback to play in a Super Bowl, guiding the Redskins to a 42-10 victory over Denver in 1988.

"Coach Gibbs says Marc can change NASCAR," Davis said. "Marc making it to Cup can increase NASCAR's gross revenues by 20 percent if he becomes the first winning minority driver. He will broaden the fan base."

Marc Davis already has sponsorship from Howard University, a predominantly black college in Washington, D.C.

"JGR's job is to train Marc to become the best racer he can be," Davis said. "My job is to make sure he has the financial backing he needs."

NASCAR won't bankroll a driver, but J.D. Gibbs believes NASCAR gets criticized unfairly on the diversity issue.

"I know for a fact that NASCAR officials really want this to happen," Gibbs said. "And no one wants to see this succeed more than Brian [France].

"But it's very expensive, and it's not NASCAR's job to hand out money to drivers. NASCAR's job is to make sure everyone has an equal opportunity on a level playing field. It's a slippery slope if they start writing checks to one driver over another one."

Making it to the upper levels of NASCAR, or any major racing league, is all about money. Lots of money.

That's the problem for any young racer, but it also shrinks the pool of diversity candidates.

"We're at a disadvantage," Poston said. "Unlike stick-and-ball sports, NASCAR doesn't have the luxury of billions of dollars in publicly funded programs with the infrastructure in schools."

Parents have to get kids started in a racing program, and it isn't cheap. Even a used quarter-midget car costs over $1,500.

Harry Davis knows well the sacrifice a parent must make to become successful in racing.

"I'm the first to tell you it's a financial drain and a burden most families can't do," Davis said. "But it isn't NASCAR's responsibility to do it."

Not everyone would agree. Some people feel NASCAR isn't doing enough to bring more women and minorities into the sport.

Eddie Gossage, the president of Texas Motor Speedway, says people frequently tell him NASCAR should spend more of its enormous profits to advance diversity.

"We all want to do this," Gossage said. "But the truth is we don't really know how. I know this: You can't just throw money at it. That won't solve the problem. We're talking about a cultural change here. You have to make racing at dirt tracks across America popular in minority families."

Giangola said that's one of the goals of NASCAR's diversity effort.

"It's a challenge, but we're working on it," he said. "We have to develop a rooting interest. The goal is to make stock car racing culturally acceptable to minority kids."

More girls and minority kids are racing at the grassroots level than ever before, but it's still a small number.

"I would say it's way less than 10 percent," Davis said. "There are pockets that have more in places like California, but in some places like Ohio and Pennsylvania, it's almost all white kids."

There's a limited pool of diversity drivers, and that number drops significantly when trying to find candidates with the talent to reach the upper levels of racing.

"Like any other sport, most people fail and don't get to the highest level." Poston said. "And remember, we only have 43 slots for drivers at the top level. That's less than one NFL team."

Gibbs said finding a driver who can make it in Cup is like looking for a needle in a haystack.

"For anyone looking for young drivers, no matter who they are, you always have a high rate of turnover," Gibbs said. "You have no way of knowing whether a kid is really good until you see them race for a while.

"Team owners want to win. They don't care whether you're white, brown, black or purple. If they believe you can win, you'll be in the car. But even if you're Hispanic and African-American, no one cares unless you're really good. And if you are that good, it's still a long process to get to the top level."

Marcus Jadotte, NASCAR's director of public affairs, said NASCAR works diligently to find those young diversity candidates.

"We cast as broad a net as possible," Jadotte said. "We reach out to the local tracks to help us identify talent. We have people calling dirt tracks across America to locate these kids. And kids or their parents can submit résumés to the D for D program."

NASCAR holds a combine each fall where 20 to 30 of the top diversity candidates test their racing skills in front of team owners.

Some of those kids move into the diversity program. Some do well, some don't.

For Joe Henderson, it didn't work out. He left the diversity program after two years after he and his father said it wasn't possible to succeed.

But Jesus Hernandez is running well (four top-5s) in the same equipment Henderson criticized at Ginn Racing. Hernandez, 26, has done so well that Allstate Insurance now is sponsoring his car.

NASCAR officials say that's how it has to work -- sponsors and team owners investing in a future where the starting grid will look much different than it looks today.

"We tell every potential sponsor to invest some of the money they would give us into the diversity program," Poston said. "It's the right thing to do and it will make the sport better."

But NASCAR isn't there yet. Its Lewis Hamilton hasn't arrived.

"We're creating opportunities for talented young diversity drivers to reach the top of the sport and be successful," Jadotte said. "But I can't give you a definitive timeline. The part of the equation that's missing isn't money, it's time. It's just a matter of time."

[Little Whiskey]

looks like kenseth didn't do very well. i wasn't able to watch the race this weekend in Michigan, but looks like he was involved in an early race wreck. it was his first DNF of the season. until today's race, i think he was the only drive to finish every lap. it was nice to hear that edwards won. only the second non-chevy to win this year. kenseth was the other.

waltrip finished tenth. kinda surprising, since this was only his third race. i imagine his car will be throughly inspected....two or three times!

[HarveyWallbangers]

Matt and some others got caught up in a wreck between Jeff Green and Ryan Newman. To me, it looked like Green was at fault. Matt and some others just happened to be coming up behind the wreck.

[BallHawk]

Bump

[Little Whiskey]

but maybe he doesn't have as good of a team or car.


to keep to the original thread. this quote is from the other thread.

LL2, kenseth has a better team, but a worse car. if you look at which mfg is dominating this year it is the chevys. i think they did a much better job getting ready for the "car of tomorrow". the only ford driver that is having a decent year is kenseth, and i think that is a testiment to his team.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Another Packers fan among the NASCAR drivers--even though he's from California. I'll have to root for him.

http://www.nascar.com/2008/news/headlines/cup/02/02/aallmendinger.ready.for.new.season/index.html


Sunday's telecast of the Super Bowl may attract as many as 100 million viewers, but there's at least one regular on the NASCAR circuit who won't be watching.

A California native, but an ardent cheesehead when it comes to NFL football, Sprint Cup driver A.J. Allmendinger has seen his last pro football game of the season, after watching his beloved Green Bay Packers lose to the New York Giants in the NFC championship game...

[HarveyWallbangers]

Randy Moss = future NASCAR owner?


Patriots' Moss hopes to race trucks with new motor group

HUNTERSVILLE, N.C. -- New England Patriots wide receiver Randy Moss announced the formation of Moss Motorsports, LLC, and said Tuesday he hopes to have a team in the NASCAR Craftsman Truck Series by the end of this year.

Moss said his goal is for the team to debut at selected races in the second half of the 2008 season, with a full-time schedule in 2009. Currently, the team has no driver, manufacturer or sponsors lined up.

"We don't have all of the details in place just yet, but I am very excited about Moss Motorsports becoming a part of NASCAR," he said. "I am by nature a very competitive person and this is an outlet for me to compete at another level.

"There are some pretty awesome challenges in building a program like this from the ground up, but I am looking forward to it."

[HarveyWallbangers]

Well, Matt is back on track after several early season wrecks--most of which (maybe all) weren't his fault. I believe he has three straight top 10 finishes. I think the #12 spot for the chase (now occupied by Kasey Kahne) will end up being Matt's spot. Another Wisconsin kid is doing well. Travis Kvapil is 18th in the standings driving for an inferior team, Yates Racing--although Yates is better now that Roush is supplying them equipment.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Matt's been on quite a streak. Moved from 22nd (and looking like he wouldn't make the chase) to #8 over the last 10 weeks or so. He has 9 top eight finishes in his last 10 races, and took 18th in the other race.

Another Packers fan from an unlikely place. I'll have to root for this guy, A.J. Allmendinger from California:

http://sports.yahoo.com/nascar/news;_ylt=Av_6ybhJLi5HEXWyGOz.Otfov7YF?slug=aa-unleashed072308&prov=yhoo&type=lgns


Outside of racing, I love the NFL. My favorite team/man crush is Brett Favre and the Green Bay Packers, so I’m pretty interested in what’s going on right now.

I’m pretty biased, but I want Favre to come back. I wasn’t ready for him to retire yet. It put a pretty emotional hurt on me when it happened. Unfortunately, the day he retired was the day I was told Mike Skinner was going to replace me for five races in the 84 car.

It all happened within about 30 minutes. I was at the Phoenix test when I got the phone call that they were putting Mike in the car. Then, as I was about to get in the car, one of my crew guys said, “Hey, Favre just retired.” I was like, “That’s not even funny.”

I thought they were joking with me and I made it clear that I wasn’t amused. Then I saw it online and, well, that hurt. Honestly, it was up for debate as to which hurt more – me getting replaced or Brett retiring.

I kind of figured I would get back in the car again, but I didn’t think I would ever see Brett play again. But I think he’s looking good. I’ve watched the video of him training. I think he should come back, and the Packers are stupid if they don’t take him.

I really started getting into the Packers when Brett took over. I just loved the way he played the game. I mean, he’s not out there showboating. He’s out there just for the love of the game, the love of winning.

I love his attitude. The guy could throw six picks in a row and on that seventh pass he’ll cock his arm back and throw it in there again. He never gives up.

I try to incorporate that attitude into my life. I think you have to.

[digitaldean]

Thanks for bumping this up Harv.

Sure would be great for #17 to get at least ONE win before the Chase.

Frickin' Busch has been hard to beat this season. He has caught some breaks re: cautions, etc., but he's made the most of them.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Yeah, and friggin' forgot A.J. was a Packers fan. I forgot I had posted he was a Packers previously. Senility, I guess.
:D

[HarveyWallbangers]

Well, Matt thinks the Packers made the right choice at QB.
:D

http://mattkenseth.com/AskMatt/AskMatt.html


Q. Now that the season is over for the Packers, do you think they made a good choice with their new quarterback Aaron Rodgers?
Rusty Stover, Marshall, Ill.

A. I really do, I think Aaron Rodgers exceeded most people’s expectations. I think the offense will be really great for years with him under center.

[Little Whiskey]

Kenseth Misses the Chase (Nascar Playoffs) for the first time.

On a positive note, Kyle Busch also didn't make it, but Mark Martin did.