Early Stab At The Roster

[HarveyWallbangers]

Bold are guys that are secure or solid bet. Bold/Italics are borderline that make it. Italics are borderline that don't make it. No formatting are longshots.

QB Brett Favre, Aaron Rodgers, Ingle Martin, Paul Thompson

RB Brandon Jackson, Vernand Morency, Noah Herron, Deshawn Wynn, P.J. Pope

FB Brandon Miree, Korey Hall, Corey White, Ryan Powdrell

WR Donald Driver, Greg Jennings, James Jones, Ruvell Martin, Shaun Bodiford, Carlyle Holliday, Robert Ferguson, David Clowney, Koren Robinson, Carlton Brewster, Calvin Russell, Chris Francies

TE Donald Lee, Bubba Franks, Zac Alcorn, Clark Harris, Joe Werner

OT Chad Clifton, Mark Tauscher, Tony Moll, Orrin Thompson, Travis Leffew

OG Daryn Colledge, Jason Spitz, Allen Barbre, Tony Palmer, Adam Stenavich, Pat Murray

OC Scott Wells, Junius Coston, Tyson Walter, C.J. Blomvall

DE Aaron Kampman, Cullen Jenkins, Kabeer Gbaja-Biamila, Michael Montgomery, Jason Hunter, Larry Birdine, DeVon Hicks

DT Ryan Pickett, Justin Harrell, Corey Williams, Johnny Jolly, Colin Cole, Daniel Muir

LB A.J. Hawk, Nick Barnett, Brady Poppinga, Abdul Hodge, Rory Johnson, Tracy White, Desmond Bishop, Juwan Simpson, Spencer Havner, Tim Goodwell, Carl-Johan Bjork

CB Al Harris, Charles Woodson, Will Blackmon, Jarrett Bush, Patrick Dendy, Tramon Williams, Frank Walker, Antonio Malone

S Nick Collins, Aaron Rouse, Marviel Underwood, Marquand Manuel, Atari Bigby, Tyrone Culver, Charlie Peprah, Alvin Nbabuife

K Dave Rayner, Mason Crosby

P Jon Ryan, Ryan Dougherty

LS Rob Davis

[Zool]

With "stab" in the title, i thought we were getting Ray Lewis.

[GrnBay007]

WR Donald Driver, Greg Jennings, James Jones, Ruvell Martin, Shaun Bodiford, Carlyle Holliday, Robert Ferguson, David Clowney, Koren Robinson, Carlton Brewster, Calvin Russell, Chris Francies

I've liked Jennings from day 1, but the injury bug seems to be hitting. If that's the case JJ moves up without a doubt.......until OR if the time KRob returns. Then it would be Driver, KRob, JJ or Jennings if he can stay healthy.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Put the beer down, and go to bed.
:D

[sepporepi]

Hmm, you know the roster limit is 53 not 55 :shock:

[RashanGary]

Damn, that was 55. This team is very deep. I imagine ST's is going to be a much improved unit this year.

[woodbuck27]

Bold are guys that are secure or solid bet. Bold/Italics are borderline that make it. Italics are borderline that don't make it. No formatting are longshots.

QB Brett Favre, Aaron Rodgers, Ingle Martin, Paul Thompson (3 QB's)

RB Brandon Jackson, Vernand Morency, Noah Herron, Deshawn Wynn, P.J. Pope (4 RB's)

FB Brandon Miree, Korey Hall, Corey White, Ryan Powdrell (2 FB's)

WR Donald Driver, Greg Jennings, James Jones, Ruvell Martin, Shaun Bodiford, Carlyle Holliday, Robert Ferguson, David Clowney, Koren Robinson, Carlton Brewster, Calvin Russell, Chris Francies (6 WR and to cover kicks now that Charles Woodson is off that detail)

TE Donald Lee, Bubba Franks, Zac Alcorn, Clark Harris, Joe Werner (** maybe only 2 - see LBers)

OT Chad Clifton, Mark Tauscher, Tony Moll, Orrin Thompson, Travis Leffew (3 T's)

OG Daryn Colledge, Jason Spitz, Allen Barbre, Tony Palmer, Adam Stenavich, Pat Murray (3 G's)

OC Scott Wells, Junius Coston, Tyson Walter, C.J. Blomvall (2 C's)

DE Aaron Kampman, Cullen Jenkins, Kabeer Gbaja-Biamila, Michael Montgomery, Jason Hunter, Larry Birdine, DeVon Hicks (4 DE's)

DT Ryan Pickett, Justin Harrell, Corey Williams, Johnny Jolly, Colin Cole, Daniel Muir (5 DT's)

LB A.J. Hawk, Nick Barnett, Brady Poppinga, Abdul Hodge, Rory Johnson, Tracy White, Desmond Bishop, Juwan Simpson, Spencer Havner, Tim Goodwell, Carl-Johan Bjork (5 or **6 LBer's)

CB Al Harris, Charles Woodson, Will Blackmon, Jarrett Bush, Patrick Dendy, Tramon Williams, Frank Walker, Antonio Malone (5 CB's)

S Nick Collins, Aaron Rouse, Marviel Underwood, Marquand Manuel, Atari Bigby, Tyrone Culver, Charlie Peprah, Alvin Nbabuife (5 Safty's)

K Dave Rayner, Mason Crosby (1)

P Jon Ryan, Ryan Dougherty (1)

LS Rob Davis (1)


I added #'s per position in ()'s and adding them to = a 53 man roster.

If we maintain 6 WR's to start the season, ** applies. Otherwise if we go with 5 WR's, we may still want to go with 2 TE's and have six (6) safety's.

Note:

** To make my (scenario) work or 6 WR's.

1. TT place's two (2) TE's on the roster and some other player has to play TE as needed.

2. He keeps the best two (2) of the other WR's. That's 2 of the 7 remaing WR's, along with DD, Jennings, Jones and Martin.

One of the WR's will return KO's ie the 6th WR Bodiford or Clowney. I like Carlyle Holliday as the 5th WR in my scenario of having 2 TE's on the roster. If TT decides to stay with Robert Ferguson it can get really messy.

It gets easier if he just cuts Manuel and Ferguson. :)

If Robert Ferguson is in that means that Ruvell Martin may be out.

3. TT keeps DT Colin Cole.

4. In my scenario of 6 WR's. TT keeps the best three of - Underwood, Bigby, Culver and Manuel with Collins and Rouse to give us five (5) Safety's.

If TT elects only 5 WR's he may add the third TE or elect two and add a player at another position.

[SkinBasket]

I'm taking the same position as last season. If Noah Herron and Patrick Dendy make this roster, I consider Ted Thompson a failure as GM (I know, real hard line position - but I do supported him to this day). There is no excuse for any NFL team carrying such absolute non-talent in this day and age.

[vince]

I'm taking the same position as last season. If Noah Herron and Patrick Dendy make this roster, I consider Ted Thompson a failure as GM (I know, real hard line position - but I do supported him to this day). There is no excuse for any NFL team carrying such absolute non-talent in this day and age.The "problem" with those guys is that, while certainly unspectacular, both have proven themselves to be fairly reliable - an important and valuable quality to have at the bottom of the roster depth chart.

[vince]

How many can be on the practice squad?

Paul Thompson, Corey White, David Clowney, Clark Harris, Orrin Thompson, Tony Palmer, Tyson Walter, Jason Hunter, Desmond Bishop, Charlie Peprah would all appear to be prime candidates under this scenario - which looks pretty accurate.

That'd be 10 on the practice squad... not sure of the size of the PS, or even if all of those guys are even eligible...

I'd like to see Culver beat out Manuel.

Pope to IR?

Cole to the Colts for a 5th?

[MJZiggy]

I would flip-flop Pope and Wynn and put Wynn on the practice sqad because if they changed the rule and Pope can hit the practice squad, I think he gets scooped up as fast as he did the last time...

[woodbuck27]

How many can be on the practice squad?

Paul Thompson, Corey White, David Clowney, Clark Harris, Orrin Thompson, Tony Palmer, Tyson Walter, Jason Hunter, Desmond Bishop, Charlie Peprah would all appear to be prime candidates under this scenario - which looks pretty accurate.

That'd be 10 on the practice squad... not sure of the size of the PS, or even if all of those guys are even eligible...

I'd like to see Culver beat out Manuel.

Pope to IR?

Cole to the Colts for a 5th?

Vince:

The problem that was brought up here the other day concerned David Clowney (if he shows skills) going on the PS to develop and with his speed getting picked off the PS.

Is the PS a maximum of 8 players? Where do we find all we ever wanted to know about the PS. i.e. eligibility based on time in the NFL? :)

[woodbuck27]

I would flip-flop Pope and Wynn and put Wynn on the practice sqad because if they changed the rule and Pope can hit the practice squad, I think he gets scooped up as fast as he did the last time...

Good thinking MJ.

[vince]

How many can be on the practice squad?

Paul Thompson, Corey White, David Clowney, Clark Harris, Orrin Thompson, Tony Palmer, Tyson Walter, Jason Hunter, Desmond Bishop, Charlie Peprah would all appear to be prime candidates under this scenario - which looks pretty accurate.

That'd be 10 on the practice squad... not sure of the size of the PS, or even if all of those guys are even eligible...

I'd like to see Culver beat out Manuel.

Pope to IR?

Cole to the Colts for a 5th?

Vince:

The problem that was brought up here the other day concerned David Clowney (if he shows skills) going on the PS to develop and with his speed getting picked off the PS.

Is the PS a maximum of 8 players? Where do we find all we ever wanted to know about the PS. i.e. eligibility based on time in the NFL? :)That's the chance you take when you have players who have skills, but aren't good enough to make the roster. IMO, you don't keep them on the roster just because you're paranoid about them being claimed by another team who doesn't have the same talent level at the respective position. Every team in the league passed on David Clowney at least 5 times in the draft, so he's not THAT valuable to be overly concerned about being claimed. Unless he can be servicable at the receiver position which he's not, and/or demonstrate superiority to Bodiford on special teams, there aren't enough spots for him. It's that simple.

[BallHawk]

Is the PS a maximum of 8 players? Where do we find all we ever wanted to know about the PS. i.e. eligibility based on time in the NFL? :)

Each NFL team may keep up to eight members on their "practice squad" in addition to their 53-member main roster. They consist mostly of rookies who were cut in training camps and borderline NFL-caliber players. Both rookies and young veterans are eligible for the practice squad. However, a player cannot participate on the practice squad for more than two seasons. Practice squad players practice alongside regular roster players during the week; however they are not allowed to play in actual games. They are paid considerably less that active squad players ($4700 per week or $80,000 per season, in comparison to the NFL minimum rookie salary of $225,000). They are also ineligible for many fringe benefits such as service time, pensions, and the like. They hope to be promoted to the active roster either by their current team, or by another team who is scouting them. They retain free agent status and may sign with any team they wish without compensation to the original team. Many are former college players living in the surrounding city area, and the vast majority of them are forced to take other jobs to help support themselves during the season and off-season. In fact, the current term evolved from the term "taxi squad", referring to the job that many scout team players held in order to supplement their income.

[woodbuck27]

Vince:

PRACTICE SQUADS

On Sunday, September 2, 2007, the day after the final pre-season cutdowns, each club may establish a Practice Squad of no more than eight (8) players who are free agents and who do not have more than nine games on an Active list in a previous season.

The minimum salary for a practice squad player is $4,700 per week, including the playoff weeks.

In addition, a player under contract to a club as a Practice Squad player is completely free to sign a contract with any NFL club to play on their Active/Inactive list.

[The Leaper]

That's the chance you take when you have players who have skills, but aren't good enough to make the roster. IMO, you don't keep them on the roster just because you're paranoid about them being claimed by another team who doesn't have the same talent level at the respective position.

I completely agree.

I'm not sure what in the hell Clowney has shown that has some of you in a tizzy. He can't run routes. He doesn't have great hands. As a receiver, he is probably 2-3 years away from being a contributor in the NFL. The only thing he has is elite speed...but that is a dime a dozen when you don't have any other solid qualities.

If you are scared of that getting snared from your PS...then you are quite paranoid. The fact of the matter is that if another team thinks Clowney can contribute now, so be it. It is clear he can't contribute now. He NEEDS at least a year on the practice squad.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Hmm, you know the roster limit is 53 not 55 :shock:

Funny. Yeah, I knew that. I play in a fantasy football league that's similar to Madden franchise mode, and we have a 55 man roster limit in that, so I was temporarily confused.
:D

[HarveyWallbangers]

I think the roster will contain extra WRs (lots of intriguing talent) and RB (lots of question marks). To get back down to 53, I think they only keep 5 LBs White could be gone if some of the young guys show ST skills. Otherwise, Johnson. They'll likely only keep 9 DBs, so Bigby, Williams, Dendy, Manuel, etc. are candidates to get cut. There was talk of Bigby doing well in the last camp, but that fell off when they started playing preseason games. He's an in-the-box safety, and I don't see that he's a good fit anyways.

[The Leaper]

I think Crosby beats Rayner. As I've maintained all along, Rayner is the guy who needs to beat Crosby.

Rayner faltered in the second half last year when the weather turned south. He missed 6 kicks in the last 7 games, and if I recall correctly, none of them were long distance attempts. Regardless of what Rayner looks like in camp, the downturn late in the year last season will still play heavily on the minds of the Packer braintrust.

I don't think it is merely a coincidence that TT took a big leg kicker from another cold climate locale in the draft. Rayner should have the advantage on the kid...he's been in the NFL for a couple years, received coaching on how to function at this level, and generally should feel more comfortable with the routine and process of camp. If Rayner doesn't CLEARLY BEAT the kid, then I think the Packers keep Crosby...who would have to be viewed as having more upside potential as he gains experience.

[pittstang5]

Funny how the "big" FA signing of Walker is almost at the bottom of the DB postion. Well, I wanted this guy to lock up the 3rd DB postion, but something in my gut told me that this guy could be another Boarigter or Boa-Constrictor....whatever the heck his name was - just a camp body. From what I've heard Dendy is not doing too bad, but I'd really like Bush or Blackmon to pave the way. This team is gonna need to replace some aging corners sooner or later. Groom 'em now, like the Eagles did.

[CaliforniaCheez]

QB(3)- Favre, Rodgers, Martin

RB(3)- Jackson, Morency, Herron, PS Pope

FB(2)- Miree, Hall

WR(6)- Driver, Jones, Jennings, Holiday, Martin, Bodiford PS Clowney and Brewster

OL(8)- Tauscher, Spitz, Clifton, Colledge, Wells, Moll, Barbre, Walter, Coston PS Blomvall

TE(3)- Lee, Franks, Alcorn PS Harris

DT(5)- Williams, Pickett, Jolly, Cole, Harrell

DE(4)- Kampmann, Jenkins, KGB, Hunter

LB(6)- Hawk, Poppinga, Barnett, Hodge, White, Bishop PS Havner

CB(5)- Harris, Woodson, Bush, Dendy, Blackmon PS Malone

S(4)- Collins, Rouse, Underwood, Culver, PS Bigby

(3) Rayner, Ryan, Davis

However, I think there should be trades of a Safety, CB, and WR, for anything. TE or Olineman. A conditional 7th is okay too. That of course would screw a lot of this up.

This is a changable list and is only a snapshot opinion at this time.

[HarveyWallbangers]

With the roster flexibility that their OL provide, I'm thinking they keep 8. I'm not sure there's another worthy of a roster spot.

Banking on sliding a guy to PS is a crapshoot. By midway through the season, the practice squad usually only has a few guys that were actually on the team in training camp. A team with no depth at WR that can wait on Clowney's maturation would probably take a chance on him.

[GBRulz]

It seems like most feel like Fergy is going to get the ax. I feel the same, unless he has one helluva pre-season.

[RashanGary]

I like your list Cheeze. I think we might keep 4 RB's and 5 WR's instead of 3 and 6.

[KYPack]

We gotta toss some kind of Forum party when Ferg gets the ax.

B has got to get a cake, a bottle of sauce, or something.

It must, no has to be, a party.

Watta ya think?

[MJZiggy]

I'm there. I'll have to think up what type of beverage a Fergy tossing calls for...

[KYPack]

A fifth of Makers Mark.

Fine KY bourbon.

And a case of beer (brand to be debated).

B gets the first 5 shots, at a minimum.

[Lurker64]

S(4)- Collins, Rouse, Underwood, Culver, PS Bigby
.

Other than possibly Collins, isn't Bigby having the best camp of any safety? I've heard a lot more about "will Bigby beat out Manuel" than "will Bigby be cut", honestly.

[GrnBay007]

Put the beer down, and go to bed.
:D

I did.....lol
Although it wasn't beer. Tough times call for tough measures ...it was 2 bacardi and DP's.

However, you can still mark my words from that post Harv. :P

[Freak Out]

It seems like most feel like Fergy is going to get the ax. I feel the same, unless he has one helluva pre-season.

You would have to think this is the year TT decides to give one of his guys a shot and cut Fergy loose but one never knows....he could stay healthy and have an impact. Ya.....thats it...... :smk:

[BallHawk]

A fifth of Makers Mark.

Fine KY bourbon.

And a case of beer (brand to be debated).

B gets the first 5 shots, at a minimum.

Well, considering it is Fergy, here is my suggestion.

A smooth bottle of.....
http://www.hopsrestaurants.com/images/lbl_alligator.gif

And for the hell of it.....

http://www.hamiltonspcbeach.com/menu/A3.jpg

Cheers to you Ferg! Cheers to you!

http://www.manship2.lsu.edu/perkins/images/gator.gif

[The Shadow]

I have to believe upgrading special teams is a priority with the coaching staff, and that may very well be a determining factor with this year's roster decisions.

1. I'm wondering if Bubba makes the team. Franks is a big salary/non special-teamer/poor 06 performance player. I could just as easily see Lee, Alcorn, & Harris (who can also provide longsnapper insurance for Rob Davis) as a TE corp.
2. I agree with the earlier sentiment expressed here that Manuel might be playing with the 1st team right now to see if he's really an answer - and if not, cut. There's no way Rouse does not stick, and Bigby seems too full of promise to release.
Underwood, who does not seem to have regained his 06 camp form after the injury, might well be stashed on that always nebulous IR.
3. I just don't see how Robert Ferguson makes the team. Driver, Jennings, Jones, Martin, Holliday, and either Bodiford or Clowny.
4. Offensive line : Clifton, Tauscher, Colledge, Wells, Spitz, and Moll are locks. I suspect Barbre, Orrin Thompson - Walter (surprise) round things out. Why Walter? Because the James Campen seems interested in versatility, and with this offensive line crew, every position on the line could potentially be manned by at least three separate players :
Center : Wells, Spitz, Walter
LT : Clifton, Colledge, Thompson
LG : Colledge, Barbre, Moll
RG : Spotz, Moll, Barbre
RT : Tauscher, Moll, Walter

[GBRulz]

Tough times call for tough measures ...it was 2 bacardi and DP's.

:alc: :whist:

[GBRulz]

You would have to think this is the year TT decides to give one of his guys a shot and cut Fergy loose but one never knows....he could stay healthy and have an impact. Ya.....thats it...... :smk:

Step away from the bong!!

:lol:

The only reason I believe he's still on the team is because of past injuries to other players.

[Guiness]

As long as a player doesn't have 2 NFL seasons to his credit, he's eligible for the practice squad. Although, in reality, most have none. Teams tend to use it to audition players, not develop them. If a guy's had a season, there's enough tape out there for an evaluation, and if he's needed on the squad, they give him a call.

I guess Atari could be put on the ps, but I don't see it. He's had a couple of camps, and an NFLE season, so if they don't see enough, I think they just send him home.

[HarveyWallbangers]

I'm not buying the hype on Bigby yet. I heard similar things last year, and I thought he looked pretty pathetic in the preseason games. Same thing with Dendy--when he was getting praised for his offseason work. Dendy isn't a bad player, but ideally he's the last corner on your roster.

[HarveyWallbangers]

The season is just around the corner. Good to see things picking up even more around here.
:D

[BallHawk]

The season is just around the corner. Good to see things picking up even more around here.
:D

It's about time. June and July were just awful.
:shock:

[Bretsky]

The season is just around the corner. Good to see things picking up even more around here.
:D


Harvey,

Loved your list, but I'd be a bit surprised if Culver was cut this year. That was the only one that stuck out to me.

Cheers,
B

[HarveyWallbangers]

Bretsky,

I think we'll see some surprises in the secondary. Sounds like Tony Palmer has been getting OC reps. He might knock your fav, Juice Coston, off the roster.

[Lurker64]

Loved your list, but I'd be a bit surprised if Culver was cut this year. That was the only one that stuck out to me.

The numbers game at safety is going to be interesting, we have:
1) Collins, who's a lock to make the team.
2) Manuel, who's the nominal starter but could be cut for any number of past transgressions.
3) Rouse, who a first day draft pick this year, so won't get cut.
4) Underwood, who's looked very promising last year and is coming off an injury that takes just over a year to recover from.
5) Culver, who's looked promising enough to not cut in the year and change we've seen him.
6) Bigby who's apparently having a great camp so far, and so would be a tough cut.

and some other people (Peprah, et al.)

I can't possibly see us keeping more than 5 safeties, and 4 is more likely. I think most of us would be happy if Manuel got cut, but who else goes? Well, there's four preseason games left to answer some of these questions. Might come down to special teams play.

[KYPack]

Bretsky,

I think we'll see some surprises in the secondary. Sounds like Tony Palmer has been getting OC reps. He might knock your fav, Juice Coston, off the roster.

Palmer is a C or guard.

Coston played at LT in the scrimmage.

He actually held his own against our other 2's & 3's.

I think they like this Thompson at LT, but we'll see.

[Joemailman]

I'd like to see the Pack come up with a legitimate backup at LT so they don't have to move Colledge there if Clifton gets hurt. Barbre played LT in college, but has been playing LG in training camp.

[The Shadow]

Thompson?

[CaliforniaCheez]

With the roster flexibility that their OL provide, I'm thinking they keep 8. I'm not sure there's another worthy of a roster spot.

Banking on sliding a guy to PS is a crapshoot. By midway through the season, the practice squad usually only has a few guys that were actually on the team in training camp. A team with no depth at WR that can wait on Clowney's maturation would probably take a chance on him.

1) I think your OL thinking may be the thoughts Ted is thinking. I would guess one is picked up on the final cuts. The Packer backups are not good.

2) The PS at this time is just mental exercise. Again I think there is always some wheeling and dealing with final cuts and opening roster.

[KYPack]

Thompson?

Orrin Thompson. A big tackle out of Duke.

I didn't know he was on the roster, either.

He looks like a prospect, but still real green.

[SkinBasket]

I'm taking the same position as last season. If Noah Herron and Patrick Dendy make this roster, I consider Ted Thompson a failure as GM (I know, real hard line position - but I do supported him to this day). There is no excuse for any NFL team carrying such absolute non-talent in this day and age.The "problem" with those guys is that, while certainly unspectacular, both have proven themselves to be fairly reliable - an important and valuable quality to have at the bottom of the roster depth chart.

One could make the argument that Herron has "proven" himself to be reliably subpar - which, for what he is, is I guess as much as anyone could ask. The only thing Dendy has proven, however, is that he lacks any skills and has shown no inclination toward improving those non-existent skills. Saying Dendy has been reliable in any sense of the word is a bit of a titanic stretch of the word.

[Brohm]

How about Dendy was titanically more reliable than Carroll, but is still unreliable :P

[HarveyWallbangers]

However, you can still mark my words from that post Harv. :P

Not sure what your words are. If Jennings gets injured, Jones will move up. Don't count on KoRo. Jennings is a star in the making. I don't see Jones passing him by any time soon.

[Merlin]

I'm taking the same position as last season. If Noah Herron and Patrick Dendy make this roster, I consider Ted Thompson a failure as GM (I know, real hard line position - but I do supported him to this day). There is no excuse for any NFL team carrying such absolute non-talent in this day and age.

You now have zero creditability as far as I am concerned with this idiotic statement. Dendy has proven to be a very serviceable asset. Herron, give me a break. All the guy has done is produced when called upon to do so. Your judge of talent is now to be ignored as is your complete lack of knowledge of the Packers. You may want to try and watch a game these guys played in before you go throwing out such nonsense.

[Merlin]

I think Crosby beats Rayner. As I've maintained all along, Rayner is the guy who needs to beat Crosby.

Rayner faltered in the second half last year when the weather turned south. He missed 6 kicks in the last 7 games, and if I recall correctly, none of them were long distance attempts. Regardless of what Rayner looks like in camp, the downturn late in the year last season will still play heavily on the minds of the Packer braintrust.

I don't think it is merely a coincidence that TT took a big leg kicker from another cold climate locale in the draft. Rayner should have the advantage on the kid...he's been in the NFL for a couple years, received coaching on how to function at this level, and generally should feel more comfortable with the routine and process of camp. If Rayner doesn't CLEARLY BEAT the kid, then I think the Packers keep Crosby...who would have to be viewed as having more upside potential as he gains experience.

For all intents and purposes, they are both rookies. Rayner kicked off in Indy so he wasn't kicking field goals. He kicked for us for one year. I totally disagree that Crosby has more upside potential. Lambeau is one of the worst fields to kick in. Rayner was in his first real season as a real kicker. Dumping the strides he has made for a rookie who hasn't kicked in the NFL was a waste of time. The only things that are clear here is that both kickers have the same potential upside and they are both performing the same in camp. Rayner has the edge because he has one season under his belt. Crosby wasn't brought in because of 3T's lack of faith in Rayner. Crosby was brought in for two reasons: 1) To give Rayner serious competition. 2) To give the kid a shot to make the team because he does have an upside as a kicker. No way Crosby beats out Rayner if they both perform the same.

[Merlin]

As it sits right now, Ferguson will make the team. I hate to say that but he will. He has experience and unfortunately aside from Driver, he has more experience then the rest of the WR's combined. IF Robinson was in camp then Ferguson is out. Ferguson may be out if Robinson can come back. Driver & Jennings 1 & 2 and either Ferguson or Holiday as #3. Martin will be #4 and Jones #5. Bodiford & Francis have an outside shot if we keep 6.

Justin Harrell making the team is a forgone conclusion because of his draft status. If he doesn't make a marked improvement by the time the season is over then that is an unfortunate move and a wasted roster spot and a wasted draft pick. I am not for keeping someone on the team because of their draft status. You field the best team possible and if Harrell isn't in the top N of defensive linemen come cut day, you let him go.

Clowney will either be a KR/PR or on the practice squad. He can't catch and can't run routes.

Jackson will be the starter at RB day one because Morency is out right now. Herron will take over from Jackson if Morency does not come back as the RB who get's the most carries a game. Wynn has been disappointing and it's time to let Pope go.

Rob Davis will win that job because the guy is good at it. I don't look for him to be around much longer though because he is getting up there. He will however retire a Packer.

Frank Walker won't make the roster. He has not shown much and there are better young prospects then him.

Rayner will be the kicker unless Crosby can do something to prove he is better. So far they look to be the same kicker and in that race, you go with experience.

Ryan will be our punter for many many years. His hang time is coming around. Once he stops out kicking the coverage, the rest is gravy. He has the ability to put the ball anywhere at anytime.

Abdul Hodge may not make the roster unless he does something spectacular. So far he hasn't shown much.

The offensive line starters will remain barring injury.

We will sign a veteran FB sometime this season yet to compete with Miree.

Thompson will be kept around as either the #3 QB or Practice squad. He looks better then I thought he would be. Martin needs to step it up to keep his spot. Rodgers is the anointed default #2 unless by some miracle the coaching staff actually let someone compete for #2.

So far that's what I am thinking although of course it's really early to make predictions so I am sure I will miss on most of them.

[swede]

Merlin I agree with most of that other than the bit about Ferguson.

I'll defend the Skinbasket angle to some extent. TT will look like a GM that tolerates mediocrity if Ferguson or Marquand Manuel make the team. Walker needs to earn his way onto this team as well.

I'm not a big fan of Herron but he seems assignment sure and I think he earns brownie points from the coaches by being the first in line for every drill and keeping the area in front of his locker real clean. He makes the team.

[Scott Campbell]

You field the best team possible and if Harrell isn't in the top N of defensive linemen come cut day, you let him go.


So how many teams in the last 10 years have cut their 1st round pick after just the rookie season?


Were barely 2 weeks into camp. I know you hate Ted, but this stuff is ridiculous.

[The Shadow]

You field the best team possible and if Harrell isn't in the top N of defensive linemen come cut day, you let him go.


So how many teams in the last 10 years have cut their 1st round pick after just the rookie season?


Were barely 2 weeks into camp. I know you hate Ted, but this stuff is ridiculous.

It's just more of the SOS from the tragically-frustrated cadre.

[The Leaper]

No way Crosby beats out Rayner if they both perform the same.

We'll see. Both are not rookies, unless you somehow just conveniently ignore last season. One year of experience in the NFL is very meaningful for a kicker...and Rayner now has more than one year of experience in terms of practicing and getting confortable with the K ball.

Missing 6 kicks under 45 yards in the last 7 weeks is hardly reliable. Rayner looked pretty poor in the second half of last season when the weather got less than comfortable. I don't see it as just coincidence that the kicker we drafted played in a cold weather climate in college.

If you want to challenge Rayner, you can bring in a free agent kicker rather than drafting one. It isn't like 20 kickers get drafted. You can still get a top 5 kicker as a free agent. Any kicker who is drafted is viewed as having pretty good potential.

When you draft a kicker, it is because you believe he can be better than what you have. Otherwise, why the hell would you waste a pick on someone merely to "challenge" Rayner...as you suggest?

[The Leaper]

You field the best team possible and if Harrell isn't in the top N of defensive linemen come cut day, you let him go.

Quite possibly the dumbest comment of the day. Eat a couple million in cap space because a guy coming off an injury last season didn't light up training camp. Few rookies are consistently reliable their first year...that is why the roster is 53 deep, not 25.

Anyone who thinks you dump Harrell based on a poor training camp is an idiot. From just the few snaps I saw him take in the scrimmage, he has the talent to make an impact in the NFL. You have to give the kid some time to get his feet under him.

[GBRulz]

Merlin, I've always wanted to ask....why you you refer to TT as T3? Is his middle name also T or something? Just curious :)

[SkinBasket]

I'm taking the same position as last season. If Noah Herron and Patrick Dendy make this roster, I consider Ted Thompson a failure as GM (I know, real hard line position - but I do supported him to this day). There is no excuse for any NFL team carrying such absolute non-talent in this day and age.

You now have zero creditability as far as I am concerned with this idiotic statement. Dendy has proven to be a very serviceable asset. Herron, give me a break. All the guy has done is produced when called upon to do so. Your judge of talent is now to be ignored as is your complete lack of knowledge of the Packers. You may want to try and watch a game these guys played in before you go throwing out such nonsense.

Jesus, got some pent up aggression there big fella?

If you think Dendy was "very serviceable," you may want to check your own credentials on judging talent. He was shit. Plain and simple. He has no coverage skills, was confused in space, had no athletic ability to recover when he was consistently being tarred, feathered, and burned by 3rd and 4th WRs, and showed zero capability to improve with the more than generous playing time he got as a result of our bone-headed personnel moves last year.

Herron is a sub par RB who, along with Dendy, contributed very little to nothing on ST, further devaluing their already minimal value.

Instead of telling me to "try and watch a game," why don't you give some examples of why these guys give you such a boner? Give me all the big numbers they posted. Link me some youtube clips that show all their awesome plays. Recall one game either played a role in a victory.

Or maybe you could counter my argument that having players on our team, and getting significant playing time last year at that, that wouldn't make any other 53 man roster in the NFL means our GM has failed to fill our roster with the necessary talent to win now and develop for the future.

Or just go fist yourself if your gonna act like an asshat.

[The Leaper]

Compared to Carroll, I can see how someone may confuse Dendy as being serviceable. However, Dendy is actually below average and got abused quite often last season. He simply didn't add insult to injury by getting flagged for PI every time his receiver was a target.

[SkinBasket]

I take it Merlin chose the fisting option.

[woodbuck27]

I have to believe upgrading special teams is a priority with the coaching staff, and that may very well be a determining factor with this year's roster decisions.

1. I'm wondering if Bubba makes the team. Franks is a big salary/non special-teamer/poor 06 performance player. I could just as easily see Lee, Alcorn, & Harris (who can also provide longsnapper insurance for Rob Davis) as a TE corp.
2. I agree with the earlier sentiment expressed here that Manuel might be playing with the 1st team right now to see if he's really an answer - and if not, cut. There's no way Rouse does not stick, and Bigby seems too full of promise to release.
Underwood, who does not seem to have regained his 06 camp form after the injury, might well be stashed on that always nebulous IR.
3. I just don't see how Robert Ferguson makes the team. Driver, Jennings, Jones, Martin, Holliday, and either Bodiford or Clowny.
4. Offensive line : Clifton, Tauscher, Colledge, Wells, Spitz, and Moll are locks. I suspect Barbre, Orrin Thompson - Walter (surprise) round things out. Why Walter? Because the James Campen seems interested in versatility, and with this offensive line crew, every position on the line could potentially be manned by at least three separate players :
Center : Wells, Spitz, Walter
LT : Clifton, Colledge, Thompson
LG : Colledge, Barbre, Moll
RG : Spotz, Moll, Barbre
RT : Tauscher, Moll, Walter

Yup.

I'm seeing a lot of that.

I havn't been following the OL development too much ( because we read a lot of general stuff on it).

Still, a lot of people feel it's on the rise. stronger that last season.

Hoping that's the case.

[RashanGary]

double post

[RashanGary]

QB (3)
Brett Favre, Aaron Rodgers, Ingle Martin

RB (4)
Brandon Jackson, Vernand Morency, Noah Herron, Deshawn Wynn

FB (2)
Brandon Miree, Korey Hall

WR (5)
Donald Driver, Greg Jennings, James Jones, Ruvell Martin, Carlyle Holliday

TE (3)
Donald Lee, Bubba Franks, Someone from a different roster

OT (4)
Chad Clifton, Mark Tauscher, Tony Moll, Orrin Thompson

OG (4)
Daryn Colledge, Jason Spitz, Allen Barbre

OC (1)
Scott Wells, Tyson Walter

DE (5)
Aaron Kampman, Cullen Jenkins, Kabeer Gbaja-Biamila, Michael Montgomery, Jason Hunter

DT (5)
Ryan Pickett, Justin Harrell, Corey Williams, Johnny Jolly, Colin Cole

LB (5)
A.J. Hawk, Nick Barnett, Brady Poppinga, Desmond Bishop, Spencer Havner

CB (5)
Al Harris, Charles Woodson, Jarrett Bush, Patrick Dendy, Will Blackmon

S (4)
Nick Collins, Aaron Rouse, Marquand Manuel, Tyrone Culver

K (1)
Mason Crosby (Seems to have gotten more accurate and Rayner less accurate as camp goes by)

P (1)
Jon Ryan

LS (1)
Rob Davis

[GBRulz]

Is it normal for teams to have a dedicated position on the roster for a long snapper?

JH, as far as your list... I think both kickers performed very well last night. At this time, I'd say they are about even, but I agree Crosby certainly added a few points to his cause with that 52 yarder last night.

The TE position...it's scary as hell to think of Lee as our starting TE. WHY was this position not addressed in the off-season...grrr :x

[PaCkFan_n_MD]

Is it normal for teams to have a dedicated position on the roster for a long snapper?

JH, as far as your list... I think both kickers performed very well last night. At this time, I'd say they are about even, but I agree Crosby certainly added a few points to his cause with that 52 yarder last night.

The TE position...it's scary as hell to think of Lee as our starting TE. WHY was this position not addressed in the off-season...grrr :x

I also don't understand way TE was not addressed. It just doesn't make sense to me with 13 mil of cap space. Every position on the team has some type of talent except this one. This position is going to hurt us a lot when the season starts, I hope Babba gets cut if he keeps dropping the ball. I hope he calls up Dallas and makes a trade for Curtis there back up, he looked a lot better than the crap we have here.

[RashanGary]

The TE position...it's scary as hell to think of Lee as our starting TE. WHY was this position not addressed in the off-season...grrr :x

That's fine, it will hurt Brett's last year but hopefully we get that fixed before Aaron takes over :)

hahaha just kidding. Seriously though, sometimes you just have to take what's out there and have a stop gap until a permenant solution comes along. There aren't 32 good starting TE's. Every team has a hole somewhere, you just have to keep scouring all of the avenues and eventually a real answer will present itself. That just didn't happen this off season. I hope we get one soon though, I'd hate to see Rodger take over and not have a threat down the middle to bail him out :)

Yes, I'm trolling. Sorry, with Rodgers performing well I can't help but get a kick out of the Favre emotion. Nobody's showing it, I just know it's there and I can't help myself.

[Joemailman]

I think the kicking job is Crosby's to lose, and has been since he was drafted. Teams don't use draft picks on kickers that often, and using a 6th round pick on a kicker is like using a 3-4 round pick on a position player. Rayner would have to clearly beat him out to keep the job.

[RashanGary]

The whole team loves Crosby too. Rayner doesn't seem to be the most well liked guy in the lockerroom. They are performing about equally IMO but Crosby is a likable guy and a good lockerrrom guy. Thompson has this wierd thing about Packer people. Who knows, maybe a good lockerroom really makes a difference but Thompson has that little quirk and Crosby just strikes me as a good guy. A good kicker and a good guy beats a good kicker and a bad guy the way Thompson does buisness. I was saying Rayner all the way and it's been close but Crosby is kicking better and better, and he has that joy for team work that Thompson seems to value.

[GBRulz]

The TE position...it's scary as hell to think of Lee as our starting TE. WHY was this position not addressed in the off-season...grrr :x

That's fine, it will hurt Brett's last year but hopefully we get that fixed before Aaron takes over :)

hahaha just kidding. Seriously though, sometimes you just have to take what's out there and have a stop gap until a permenant solution comes along. There aren't 32 good starting TE's. Every team has a hole somewhere, you just have to keep scouring all of the avenues and eventually a real answer will present itself. That just didn't happen this off season. I hope we get one soon though, I'd hate to see Rodger take over and not have a threat down the middle to bail him out :)

Yes, I'm trolling. Sorry, with Rodgers performing well I can't help but get a kick out of the Favre emotion. Nobody's showing it, I just know it's there and I can't help myself.

Yes, Rodgers played great last night...of course we're all happy to see his improvement. The last thing any of us want is a first round bust.

Anyhow, enjoy another two seasons of Rodgers riding the pine. :wink: :jig:

[falco]

Wasn't Conway a draft pick when Longwell beat him out? I could be wrong.

[GBRulz]

The whole team loves Crosby too. Rayner doesn't seem to be the most well liked guy in the lockerroom.

I haven't been in the lockerroom lately, so I can't tell you for sure. :wink:

[falco]

Wasn't Conway a draft pick when Longwell beat him out? I could be wrong.

Conway was a 3rd round draft pick at that.

[RashanGary]

I was juding it on the way everyone was laughing and having a good time with Crosby after that 52 yard kick. Rayner seems like he's not well liked and CRosby seems like they love him. I don't know, it's a pretty small sample but I know Thompson takes that lockerroom (I should have said sideline) stuff seriously.

Thompson said he wants guys who value team work and such. Crosby just seems to have that joy for workign together. I just got that hunch after the 52 yarder, it could be ntohing but I know Thompson pays attn to that stuff.

[Joemailman]

Wasn't Conway a draft pick when Longwell beat him out? I could be wrong.

Yep. Conway was terrible though. Longwell clearly beat him out. It was a different situation from what we have here.

[vince]

Wasn't Conway a draft pick when Longwell beat him out? I could be wrong.I believe Longwell was a late addition to the team - after he was cut from another team - Seattle I think. He was added because it had quickly become clear that Conway was having big problems and they needed someone who could make a field goal.

[Iron Mike]

Wasn't Conway a draft pick when Longwell beat him out? I could be wrong.I believe Longwell was a late addition to the team - after he was cut from another team - Seattle I think. He was added because it had quickly become clear that Conway was having big problems and they needed someone who could make a field goal.

Longwell came from the 49ers.

[falco]

Wasn't Conway a draft pick when Longwell beat him out? I could be wrong.

Yep. Conway was terrible though. Longwell clearly beat him out. It was a different situation from what we have here.

I like Crosby, I think he'll be our kicker. I'm just saying stranger things have happened.

I wonder if Wolf got chided for blowing a 3rd round pick on a bust of a kicker? At least he didn't trade up for it I guess.

JH, where do you get these things? Are you basing this on a short clip you saw of players on the sidelines? Or do you have a legitimate source?

[Bretsky]

Wasn't Conway a draft pick when Longwell beat him out? I could be wrong.I believe Longwell was a late addition to the team - after he was cut from another team - Seattle I think. He was added because it had quickly become clear that Conway was having big problems and they needed someone who could make a field goal.


Conway was a 3rd round pick
Longwell was cut by the 49ers

[RashanGary]

JH, where do you get these things? Are you basing this on a short clip you saw of players on the sidelines? Or do you have a legitimate source?


It's a coplete guess and a hunch. It's neck and neck. I think it might come down to who is the better team guy.

It's sort of a weird thing that I pick up on TT. He has a strange affinity for team guys and lockerroom (sideline) love.

I listen to all of Thompsons press conferences. He seems to be very concious of how guys get along. I just would not be suprised if the final straw is the guy who gets along best in the lockerroom. After the short clip, I saw something with Crosby that I don't see with Rayner.

It's just a guess but it has some twisted logic behind it.

[GBRulz]

Rayner does a ton of community events with teammates. He also watched the SB on board a navy aircraft carrier with a handful of teammates. I'd say he gets along with them just fine.

The pre-season sidelines are a little different. Guys are working hard and stressing out over making the team. Do you not think Rayner isn't just a bit nervous for his job right now?

I don't really care which kicker we go with. The one that gives us the best chance to win is all I care about. To make up accusations that Rayner doesn't get along as well with teammates in the lockerroom is a bit far-fetched.

[RashanGary]

Never said to take the lesser guy. May the best guy win.

I think they are equal but Crosby might have an intangible edge that Thompson looks for.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Pretty silly, Nick. You have no idea if Rayner is well-liked or not. You have no idea if Crosby is well-liked or not. As far as Rayner goes, I remember training camp reports from last year that stated his teammates did indeed like him because he was different than your typical kicker. He was a part of the team... a football player.

[RashanGary]

Pretty silly, Nick. You have no idea if Rayner is well-liked or not. You have no idea if Crosby is well-liked or not. As far as Rayner goes, I remember training camp reports from last year that stated his teammates did indeed like him because he was different than your typical kicker. He was a part of the team... a football player.

I could be wrong, just a hunch. No one will ever know, I just think Thompson weighs how good of a team mate that guys are more than other GM's. I thought it might translate to this neck and neck race.

[falco]

Pretty silly, Nick. You have no idea if Rayner is well-liked or not. You have no idea if Crosby is well-liked or not. As far as Rayner goes, I remember training camp reports from last year that stated his teammates did indeed like him because he was different than your typical kicker. He was a part of the team... a football player.

I could be wrong, just a hunch. No one will ever know, I just think Thompson weighs how good of a team mate that guys are more than other GM's. I thought it might translate to this neck and neck race.

I think Thompson will take whoever is going to be the most reliable and accurate kicker, regardless of whether the teammates love him or think he is a jerk.

[RashanGary]

Question 1

Who is the better field goal kicker?

Answer 1

All things considered they are equal




Question 2

Who is the better kick off guy?

Answer 2

They are both equal




Question 3

Who should we keep?

Answer 3

If we can get a trade for one or teh other take it. If not, we can either flip a coin or take the better lockerroom guy. Let's take the better lockerroom guy.



Last resort tie breaker. They are equal. Nobody is pulling away. A tie breaker like intangibles might have to be used.

[falco]

I guarantee you by the end of the preseason they will have enough information to make a decision one way or the other. If the decision comes down to who the other players like better, than the coaching/evaluation staff are not doing their jobs.

[HarveyWallbangers]

From Bob McGinn's chat--which would seem to go against JH's argument. McGinn could be wrong, but we just don't know enough to make an ascertation like that.


Q: Digger of Andover - Hi Bob; A 52 yarder off the grass on the road to seal the victory? Not bad for your first NFL kick. Can he do it off the tundra in December? What are Crosby's chances of unseating Rayner? Does Rayner have to falter, or will a tie go to the draft pick? Either way, I feel a lot better about kicker than I did 1 yr ago. Lay your wisdom on me, oh mighty sage.

A: Bob McGinn - Dig: If the cut was today, no way they'd cut Crosby. His potential is vast. He has been automatic. Rayner hasn't been quite as good. Many veterans are pulling for Rayner. It's tough on a rookie in this setting. All the kid has done is make everything. Yes, the FG kicking should be better in 2007.

[RashanGary]

Yes, I do appear to be wrong.

[RashanGary]

New Guess

1. Favre
2. Rodgers
3. Thompson

4. Jackson
5. Morency
6. Herron
7. Wynn

8. Driver
9. Jennings
10. Jones
11. Martin
12. Holliday

13. Hall
14. Miree

15. Franks
16. Lee
17. Some other TE from another team

18. Clifton
19. Colledge
20. Wells
21. Spitz
22. Tauscher
23. Moll
24. Coston
25. Barbre
26. Walter


27. Crosby
28. Ryan
29. Davis

30. Jenkins
31. Williams
32. Pickett
33. Kampman
34. Jolly
35. Harrell
36. KGB
37. Montgomery
38. Hunter
39. Cole

40. Hawk
41. Barnett
42. Poppinga
43. Bishop
44. Hodge

45. Collins
46. Manuel
47. Bigby
48. Rouse

49. Harris
50. Woodson
51. Bush
52. Blackmon
53. Walker

[Deputy Nutz]

Sorry, I just don't see them cutting Rouse who was a third round pick.

[HarveyWallbangers]

QB (3) Brett Favre, Aaron Rodgers, Ingle Martin, Paul Thompson

RB (3) Brandon Jackson, Vernand Morency, Noah Herron, Corey White, Deshawn Wynn, P.J. Pope

FB (2) Brandon Miree, Korey Hall, Ryan Powdrell

WR (6) Donald Driver, Greg Jennings, James Jones, Ruvell Martin, Carlyle Holliday, Shaun Bodiford, Robert Ferguson, David Clowney, Koren Robinson, Carlton Brewster, Calvin Russell, Chris Francies

TE (3) Donald Lee, Bubba Franks, Free Agent, Zac Alcorn, Clark Harris, Joe Werner

OT (3) Chad Clifton, Mark Tauscher, Tony Moll, Orrin Thompson, Travis Leffew

OG (3) Daryn Colledge, Jason Spitz, Allen Barbre, Junius Coston, Adam Stenavich, Pat Murray

OC (2) Scott Wells, Tony Palmer, Tyson Walter, C.J. Blomvall

DE (4) Aaron Kampman, Cullen Jenkins, Kabeer Gbaja-Biamila, Michael Montgomery, Jason Hunter, Larry Birdine, DeVon Hicks

DT (5) Ryan Pickett, Justin Harrell, Corey Williams, Johnny Jolly, Colin Cole, Daniel Muir

LB (6) A.J. Hawk, Nick Barnett, Brady Poppinga, Desmond Bishop, Tracy White, Abdul Hodge, Rory Johnson, Juwan Simpson, Spencer Havner, Tim Goodwell, Carl-Johan Bjork

CB (5) Al Harris, Charles Woodson, Jarrett Bush, Will Blackmon, Frank Walker, Patrick Dendy, Tramon Williams, Antonio Malone

S (5) Nick Collins, Aaron Rouse, Marquand Manuel, Atari Bigby, Marviel Underwood, Tyrone Culver, Charlie Peprah, Alvin Nbabuife

K (1) Mason Crosby, Dave Rayner

P (1) Jon Ryan, Ryan Dougherty

LS (1) Rob Davis

[vince]

I'd say that's REAL close, Harv.

Possibly sub Thompson for Palmer on OL and another RB for Bodiford...

[Joemailman]

I agree with Harv with 2 exceptions. Alcorn makes it and I think Muir beats out Cole. Also, if Bigby beats out Manuel, Manuel is released and Culver makes it.

[Bretsky]

Yes, I do appear to be wrong.


Naaaaa :wink:

[RashanGary]

Sorry, I just don't see them cutting Rouse who was a third round pick.

Oh shit, I did it off the top of my head and missed him.

[HarveyWallbangers]

McGinn reads this forum?
:D


Roster remains work in progress for Packers
Several backup spots up for grabs
Bob McGinn

Green Bay - The Green Bay Packers might end up cutting some players of interest to other teams in 2 1/2 weeks, including Robert Ferguson, Dave Rayner, Abdul Hodge and Frank Walker.

But that doesn't mean the Packers have a deep roster in their third season under general manager Ted Thompson. What it does reflect is a logjam of mediocrity at wide receiver, linebacker and the secondary.

The condition was brought on by Thompson's decision to trade down nine times in his three drafts, accumulating a National Football League-leading 34 selections. Twenty-seven of those players remain on the 88-man roster.

"It's not like we've got this Super Bowl team and we brought in 10 new guys and we've only got six slots," coach Mike McCarthy said. "That's not where we are right now.

"I think it will be hard to cut because there's more unknown here. We're in the process of building the bottom half of our roster through the draft. To me, the biggest challenge is the middle part of our roster. Who is the starter? Who (plays) special teams? Or maybe they've got to do both."

A year ago this week, the Packers had 30 players judged to be on the fence and another 26 as long shots to make the 53-man roster. Today, there are 38 players on the fence and just 18 long shots.

It has made for increased competition, the watchword of Thompson's rebuilding effort. Whether it makes for a better team remains to be seen.

"Let's be honest," McCarthy said. "We want all our positions to look like the D-line and the corners. The outside person might not feel that way about our corners, but we've got some young guys that have made tremendous strides."

Unfortunately for Thompson and McCarthy, two of the offensive skill positions are so weak that the entire offense could be compromised.

"The two positions that I worry about are running back and tight end," McCarthy said. "Because we don't have the competition there that you do elsewhere."

No team fared worse than the Packers on special teams over the last two seasons. The organizational push to improve means special-teams capability could split ties in several positions.

All teams must be down to 75 players on Aug. 29, then to the final 53 on Sept. 2.

On Sept. 3, the Packers can sign up to eight players to the practice squad. Candidates are any free agents who do not have an accrued season of free-agency credit (six games on the 53-man roster or injured reserve) or who were on the 45-player active roster for fewer than nine regular-season games during their only accrued season. A player who has been on a practice squad for three weeks or more in two seasons also is ineligible.

WIDE RECEIVERS (4 to 6)

Locks: Donald Driver, Greg Jennings, James Jones.

On the fence: Ruvell Martin, Carlyle Holiday, Robert Ferguson, Shaun Bodiford, David Clowney.

Long shots: Chris Francies, Calvin Russell, Carlton Brewster.

Comment: The Packers really could use a vertical threat, but Clowney, a fifth-round pick, doesn't look ready and might be headed for the practice squad. Ferguson still can run and will sell out on special teams, but unless he does something dramatic in the last three games the Packers seem prepared to move on with someone more durable.

Martin, not real fast and almost too tall, is a quarterback's dream with his huge frame and attention to detail. He could write the book on how to impress in camp. Holiday is another power player without a second burst. Plus, he also can cover kicks. Jones, Martin and Holiday are alarmingly similar in style and speed.

Bodiford's chances hinge on his ability to win the return job. He's quick and courageous but needs route refinement. Francies spent 10 weeks on the 53 in '06 but appears outgunned this time.

TIGHT ENDS (3)

Good bets: Donald Lee, Bubba Franks.

On the fence: Zac Alcorn, Clark Harris.

Long shots: Joe Werner.

Comment: The Packers' band-aid approach figures to go another year with Lee and Franks splitting time. They'll try to use Lee as the receiver and Franks as the blocker. Both have been OK in camp.

Tory Humphrey, who broke his ankle in the first practice, might have claimed the No. 3 job by default. Alcorn will be 27 next week and should be more mature, but he tends to get so down on himself that he compounds his mistakes. His soft hands have betrayed him too often and his blocking has been disappointing. Harris, a seventh-round pick, doesn't have a distinguishing characteristic and probably isn't worth keeping. Thus, the No. 3 tight end might well be someone presently on another team.

Werner, the former UW-La Crosse basketball player, has worked hard, caught everything and shown necessary guts. He needs a year on the practice squad and in the weight room to make a real bid.

OFFENSIVE LINE (9)

Locks: T Chad Clifton, T Mark Tauscher, C Scott Wells, G Daryn Colledge, G Jason Spitz, G Allen Barbre.

Good bets: T-G Tony Moll.

On the fence: G-C Tony Palmer, T-G Junius Coston, C-T Tyson Walter.

Long shots: T-G Travis Leffew, T-G Adam Stenavich, G Pat Murray, T Orrin Thompson, C C.J. Blomvall.

Comment: Barbre, the fourth-round pick, has had a better camp than Moll and appears to have usurped the status as sixth-best lineman.

Palmer, the Rams' seventh-round pick in '06, is a thick, strong point-of-attack run blocker and a popular guy among his teammates. A guard by trade, he has worked extensively at center in camp. Coston, a fifth-round choice in '05, has shown left-tackle feet and probably has had his best camp. They look to be the eighth and ninth players.

If the Packers aren't sold on Palmer as the No. 2 center, versatile veteran Tyson Walter might stick. Walter would add some experience (he's 29) to a youthful group but isn't all that strong. Leffew can play everywhere except center but is undersized. Stenavich, the Marshfield native, struggles to hold up physically. Murray might be worth a practice-squad contract.

QUARTERBACKS (2 or 3)

Locks: Brett Favre, Aaron Rodgers.

On the fence: Ingle Martin, Paul Thompson.

Comment: Martin appears to have reached a plateau. He's not accurate or poised. For a second-year man, he makes too many mistakes.

Signed May 16, Thompson has made significant strides and finds himself squarely in the picture if the Packers keep three, as they have done every year of the Favre era. He has great size, a good arm and excellent mobility. However, he's green as grass.

RUNNING BACKS (5)

Locks: RB Brandon Jackson.

Good bets: RB Vernand Morency.

On the fence: FB Korey Hall, FB Brandon Miree, RB Noah Herron, RB DeShawn Wynn, RB-FB Corey White.

Long shots: FB Ryan Powdrell, RB P.J. Pope.

Comment: Both positions remain in a complete state of flux. When will Morency return from his knee injury? Can Jackson carry the load? Is Wynn anything more than a tease? Do the Packers need to obtain a veteran ball carrier? Do they have a starting fullback?

Wynn flashed his great feet and vision, just as the seventh-round pick did at Florida. He even ran hard at times. But he can't stay out of the training room. Herron has done the Tony Fisher third-down thing for 1 1/2 seasons, just not as well. He has serious physical limitations. And White, given a $500 signing bonus May 15 to play fullback, has had to perform strictly as a running back. He's a 235-pound power back who runs high and in a straight line. Pope might be headed for injured reserve but wasn't the answer, anyway.

William Henderson is gone, but his replacement has yet to be found. It was expected to be Miree, but he's marginal and has been out about 10 days with a stinger. Hall has made a rapid conversion from linebacker to fullback and looks like a keeper. Powdrell showed up in less than tip-top shape and hasn't challenged.

DEFENSIVE LINE (9 or 10)

Locks: DE Aaron Kampman, DE Cullen Jenkins, DT Ryan Pickett, DE Kabeer Gbaja-Biamila, DT Justin Harrell.

Good bets: DT Corey Williams, DT Johnny Jolly, DE Michael Montgomery.

On the fence: DT Colin Cole, DE Jason Hunter, DT Daniel Muir.

Long shots: DE Larry Birdine, DE DeVon Hicks.

Comment: Jolly and Montgomery needed excellent camps to earn roster berths and came through with them. Jolly probably has played the best of all the tackles. Montgomery added about 15 pounds, is much more stubborn against the run and hasn't lost his pass-rushing knack.

The fifth berth at tackle looks like a dogfight between Cole and Muir. If it's Muir, an impressive rookie free agent from Kent State, the Packers might be able to obtain a late-round pick for Cole. Muir has more pass-rush skill than Cole and might be as stout.

Hunter is playing better than he did a year ago as a rookie free agent. He's also 15 pounds heavier and more aware. If a fifth end makes it, it could be a close call between Hunter and Birdine, who after a slow start has come on.

LINEBACKERS (5 or 6)

Locks: WLB A.J. Hawk, MLB Nick Barnett, SLB Brady Poppinga.

On the fence: WLB Tracy White, MLB Desmond Bishop, MLB Abdul Hodge, WLB Rory Johnson, SLB Spencer Havner, MLB-WLB Tim Goodwell.

Long shots: SLB Juwan Simpson.

Comment: White, the club's No. 1 special-teams performer in '06, has improved from scrimmage and should stick.

It's uncertain if both Bishop and Hodge would make it. Bishop is running ahead of Hodge to be Barnett's backup. He's bigger, a tad more athletic and healthier than Hodge, whose chronic case of patellar tendinitis could threaten his career. If Hodge is playing at the end of camp, he might bring a draft choice via trade.

Johnson is by far the most athletic of the players fighting for the No. 4 outside berth but didn't get in until the last 5 minutes in Pittsburgh. The Packers need to find out what they have in him. Havner is versatile, shows rush ability and is OK on special teams. Goodwell can find the ball but is fourth-string in the middle and probably too slow for outside.

DEFENSIVE BACKS (9 or 10)

Locks: CB Charles Woodson, S Nick Collins, CB Al Harris.

On the fence: S Marquand Manuel, CB Will Blackmon, S Aaron Rouse, CB Jarrett Bush, S Atari Bigby, CB Patrick Dendy, S Tyrone Culver, CB Tramon Williams, CB Frank Walker, S Marviel Underwood.

Long shots: S Charlie Peprah, S Alvin Nnabuife, CB Antonio Malone.

Comment: Manuel remains the nominal starter but based on the way that he played last year doesn't appear guaranteed even of a roster berth. Bigby is getting his shot this week, but it would be a mistake for the Packers not to give Rouse an equally long look in the remaining games.

The 6-foot-4 Rouse has been on the No. 3 pair of safeties most of camp and his potential remains unknown. Quite possibly he isn't ready, but the staff needs to find that out. Bigby has far more range than Manuel and might be as physical in the box. Underwood, Bigby's partner throughout camp with the No. 2 defense, is 11 1/2 months removed from reconstructive knee surgery and isn't back where he was.

Culver, the No. 3 safety in '06, is more dependable than athletic. Both Culver and Peprah offer more in terms of instinct than speed and striking ability.

At cornerback, five players are in a pitched battle for what looks like three backup jobs. The front-runner appears to be the gifted Blackmon, who has come on after a rough first week. Dendy has been back at left corner in the nickel defense all camp but has taken more than his share of lumps. He carries out assignments to the letter but is limited by speed.

Bush, an excellent special-teams player, is much more consistent in coverage. Williams, a late cut by Houston as a rookie free agent in '06, is very physical for his gangly build and uses his long arms well in press coverage. Walker, the team's only unrestricted free-agent signing, has been slow making the major transition from playing mostly off with the Giants to pressing here. A gambler, he has the size and speed to make a late charge.

SPECIALISTS (3)

Good bets: LS Rob Davis, P Jon Ryan.

On the fence: K Mason Crosby, K Dave Rayner.

Long shots: P Ryan Dougherty.

Comment: If the cut were today, it'd have to be Crosby over Rayner. Both have met the challenge, but Crosby has slightly better numbers and limitless potential. Dougherty is one of the better free-agent punters to come through Green Bay in a while but isn't going to beat out Ryan, who seems improved. Dougherty, who also kicks off effectively, could find work elsewhere.

[sepporepi]

No way the keep Bishop and Hodge, especially not as the only two backups.
They are both MLBs.
My bet is Hodge is going on IR and bishop makes the team.

[Bretsky]

But that doesn't mean the Packers have a deep roster in their third season under general manager Ted Thompson. What it does reflect is a logjam of mediocrity at wide receiver, linebacker and the secondary.


Very true of this roster; we have a whole bunch of OK players. We're not really sure how good many of them are. Fun to speculate though. I'm higher on Jackson and Jones than I was a few months back. Wonder if any of these late rounder will turn out to be anything besides Crosby ?

[KYPack]

No way the keep Bishop and Hodge, especially not as the only two backups.
They are both MLBs.
My bet is Hodge is going on IR and bishop makes the team.

Agreed. Hodge is hurt & couldn't even fill against Pitt. That's his strong suit. Give the kid a year and let him make his big shot in '08.

They like Bishop. He gets a ton of reps for a kid.

[privatepacker]

I just don't think we have seen the last FA RB or TE to come into camp. Living in Dallas you see a RB like Tyson Thompson and he's buried on the Cowboys but could see him in the Green and Gold easily. Same w/ another TE called Tony Curtis. I'm sure there are many other players like these 2 guys that GB must be look at once teams have to start cutting players or putting them on waivers.

[Joemailman]

QB (3) Favre, Rodgers, Thompson
RB (4) Jackson, Morency, Herron, White
FB (2) Miree, Hall
WR (5) Driver, Jennings, Jones, Martin, Holiday
TE (3) Lee, Franks, Alcorn
OL (8) Clifton, Colledge, Wells, Spitz, Tauscher, Moll, Coston, Barbre
DT (5) Pickett, Williams, Harrell, Jolly, Muir
DE (5) Kampman, Jenkins, KGB, Montgomery, Hunter
LB (6) Poppinga, Barnett, Hawk, Bishop, Johnson, White
CB (5) Harris, Woodson, Walker, Blackmon, Bush
S (4) Collins, Bigby, Rouse, Culver
ST (3) Crosby, Davis, Ryan

[HarveyWallbangers]

I like your list. A couple of ones that I'd change, but it looks close to me at this point.

[falco]

I feel a lot more solid about the roster this year. Not sure exactly why. I like the fact that a lot of Thompsons picks seem to have the capability to be starters. Of course, he is the one selecting the roster, but nevertheless...

[BooHoo]

I feel better about the roster this year also. It seems like we have more depth.

[SkinBasket]

QB (3) Favre, Rodgers, Thompson
RB (4) Jackson, Morency, Herron, White
FB (2) Miree, Hall
WR (5) Driver, Jennings, Jones, Martin, Holiday
TE (3) Lee, Franks, Alcorn
OL (8) Clifton, Colledge, Wells, Spitz, Tauscher, Moll, Coston, Barbre
DT (5) Pickett, Williams, Harrell, Jolly, Muir
DE (5) Kampman, Jenkins, KGB, Montgomery, Hunter
LB (6) Poppinga, Barnett, Hawk, Bishop, Johnson, White
CB (5) Harris, Woodson, Walker, Blackmon, Bush
S (4) Collins, Bigby, Rouse, Culver
ST (3) Crosby, Davis, Ryan

I like this for the most part as well. I would say drop Herron, but we don't even have a camp body to take his spot. I think they'll keep the kid from Ruetgers over Alcorn, and I can only hope, really really hope, that they would keep Birdine over Hunter. Hunter's got nothing, although he is improved from last pre-season, when he was less than nothing, he was a hindrance any time he was on the field. Birdine's game is much much more rounded.

[Joemailman]

Yeah, battles like Hunter/Birdine will be decided in the last pre-season game. The starters will play a series or two and the guys trying to make the team will get their chance to do something.

[Deputy Nutz]

Here it goes,

QB
1 Favre
2 Rodgers
3 Martin

RB
4 Jackson
5 Morency
6 Herron- must improve his blitz pickup and third down blocking
7 Wynn

FB
8Miree
9 Hall

WR
10 Driver
11 Jennings
12 Jones
13 Martin
14 Holliday

TE
15 Franks
16 Lee
17 Alcorn

LT
18 Clifton
19 Thompson

LG
20 Colledge
21 Barbre

C
22 Wells


RG
23 Spitz
24 Coston

RT
25 Tauscher
26 Moll

DE
27 Kampman
28 Jenkins
29 G.-Biamila
Montgomery-IR

DT
30 Pickett
31 Harrell
32 Jolly
33 Williams
34 Cole

MLB
35 Barnett
36 Bishop

SLB
37 Poppinga
38 Havner

WLB
39 Hawk
40 White

CB
41 Harris
42 Woodson
43 Bush
44 Blackmon
45 Dendy

SS
46 Bigby
47 Rouse

FS
48 Collins
49 Culver

P
50 Ryan

K
51 Crosby

Snapper
52 Davis

[RashanGary]

I don't see Alcorn sticking. Best case is trading Cole for a backup TE. Worst case is cutting Cole and picking up a TE on waivers.

I'm not so sure Manuel is gone either. Bush starting over Woodson doesn't mean Woodson is cut so Bigby over Manuel might not mean Manuel is cut. We'll see I guess.

[Deputy Nutz]

I don't see Alcorn sticking. Best case is trading Cole for a backup TE. Worst case is cutting Cole and picking up a TE on waivers.

I'm not so sure Manuel is gone either. Bush starting over Woodson doesn't mean Woodson is cut so Bigby over Manuel might not mean Manuel is cut. We'll see I guess.

Bush ain't starting over Woodson. What kinda crack are you smoking brotha?

[RashanGary]

Bush and Dendy started a game over Woodson and Harris. I thought I heard Bush was going to start in the next preseason game as well or maybe that was just him playing with the 1's in practice.

I get a little worried about Bigby starting but if they think he has upside and the skill to handle it now I'm warming up to it. Wist watched him pretty closely apparently and saw some good things. I think we're good enough to win now so I hate to experiment, but playing it safe is exactly what Sherman did and it is exactly what stopped us from really getting better. Despite that urge to hold on to the comfort blanket, it might be best to take a chance. I'm warming up to Bigby, but it's tough because of those awful tackles in his first live oppertunities. First impressions last. I'll try to judge him on his body of work going forward, but it's hard for me to get those horrible whiffs out of my head right now.

[esoxx]

QB (3) Favre, Rodgers, Thompson
RB (4) Jackson, Morency, Herron, White
FB (2) Miree, Hall
WR (5) Driver, Jennings, Jones, Martin, Holiday
TE (3) Lee, Franks, Alcorn
OL (8) Clifton, Colledge, Wells, Spitz, Tauscher, Moll, Coston, Barbre
DT (5) Pickett, Williams, Harrell, Jolly, Muir
DE (5) Kampman, Jenkins, KGB, Montgomery, Hunter
LB (6) Poppinga, Barnett, Hawk, Bishop, Johnson, White
CB (5) Harris, Woodson, Walker, Blackmon, Bush
S (4) Collins, Bigby, Rouse, Culver
ST (3) Crosby, Davis, Ryan

I like this for the most part as well. I would say drop Herron, but we don't even have a camp body to take his spot. I think they'll keep the kid from Ruetgers over Alcorn, and I can only hope, really really hope, that they would keep Birdine over Hunter. Hunter's got nothing, although he is improved from last pre-season, when he was less than nothing, he was a hindrance any time he was on the field. Birdine's game is much much more rounded.


I agree with you about Birdine. He has been impressive with penetration and disruption. He seems to have a knack. I also really like Muir. These are the type of young guys that TT has been mining for to develop into gold.

I see more limited type players like Montgomery and Cole hitting the road. Maybe they don't keep both Birdine and Muir but it wouldn't surprise me in the least.

[RashanGary]

Good point essox. Birdine and Muir seem like they have played better than Montgomery, Hunter and Cole. Hunter is a ST's demon so it's hard to get rid of him. If he stays, I'm OK because we need all the help we can get on ST's.

[Merlin]

QB (3) Favre, Rodgers, Thompson
RB (4) Jackson, Morency, Herron, White
FB (2) Miree, Hall
WR (5) Driver, Jennings, Jones, Martin, Holiday
TE (3) Lee, Franks, Alcorn
OL (8) Clifton, Colledge, Wells, Spitz, Tauscher, Moll, Coston, Barbre
DT (5) Pickett, Williams, Harrell, Jolly, Muir
DE (5) Kampman, Jenkins, KGB, Montgomery, Hunter
LB (6) Poppinga, Barnett, Hawk, Bishop, Johnson, White
CB (5) Harris, Woodson, Walker, Blackmon, Bush
S (4) Collins, Bigby, Rouse, Culver
ST (3) Crosby, Davis, Ryan

The only ones I disagree with are:

1) QB - Martin over Thompson ~ Unless a miracle happens for Thompson after Saturday's debacle.

2) TE - Alcorn ~ I don't think he is going to make the team.

3) DT - Harrell ~ Jolly will be ahead of him and should be.

4) CB - Culver ~ Gets nod over Rouse based on Rouse not having a friggin clue yet.

5) K - Rayner ~ Cutting a veteran kicker in a tie game is stupid (then again 3T isn't all that bright)

[RashanGary]

QB (3) Favre, Rodgers, Martin (Thompson flopped bad enough to clear waivers and make the PS)
RB (4) Jackson, Morency, Herron
FB (2) Miree, Hall
WR (5) Driver, Jennings, Jones, Martin, Holiday
TE (3) Lee, Franks, Someone from another team
OL (8) Clifton, Colledge, Wells, Spitz, Tauscher, Moll, Coston, Barbre
DT (5) Pickett, Williams, Jolly, Cole, Harrell, Muir
DE (5) Kampman, Jenkins, KGB, Birdine, Hunter
LB (6) Poppinga, Barnett, Hawk, Bishop, Johnson, White
CB (5) Harris, Woodson, Walker, Blackmon, Bush
S (4) Collins, Bigby, Rouse, Culver
ST (3) Crosby, Davis, Ryan

Muir and Birdine beat out Cole and Montgomery becuase they seem a little more intrigueing. Hunter makes it on ST's. I'm going to let go of my instinct to play it safe and cut Manuel for Bigby. I don't know who's going to be at TE but after Lee and Franks I think we have to bring in someone from another roster.

[Joemailman]

Regarding Thompson, MM talked about how Thompson was put in some bad situations because the Packers had to go with 1 back much of the time. Overall, he didn't seem too down about Thompson's performance. Martin to me hasn't really stepped up this year, and #3 Qb's who don't improve are very vulnerable to a challenge, especially from someone with Thompson's physical skills.

[Merlin]

Don't get me wrong, I like Thompson. I think though if the coaches actually did their job and had a real competition after Favre, Rodgers wouldn't be on the team. Rodgers was handed #2 regardless of how he performed. Rodgers has been given every opportunity to succeed (and had very few successes in that time span). I think if all things were equal, Rodgers would be gone. We will never know though because when 3T drafts someone that high, they are on the team #1 on the depth chart come hell or high water. The problem for that 3T plan with Rodgers is that Favre refuses to hang em up.

[HarveyWallbangers]

:crazy:

[Partial]

QB (3) Favre, Rodgers, Martin (Thompson flopped bad enough to clear waivers and make the PS)
RB (4) Jackson, Morency, Herron
FB (2) Miree, Hall
WR (5) Driver, Jennings, Jones, Martin, Holiday
TE (3) Lee, Franks, Someone from another team
OL (8) Clifton, Colledge, Wells, Spitz, Tauscher, Moll, Coston, Barbre
DT (5) Pickett, Williams, Jolly, Cole, Harrell, Muir
DE (5) Kampman, Jenkins, KGB, Birdine, Hunter
LB (6) Poppinga, Barnett, Hawk, Bishop, Johnson, White
CB (5) Harris, Woodson, Walker, Blackmon, Bush
S (4) Collins, Bigby, Rouse, Culver
ST (3) Crosby, Davis, Ryan

Muir and Birdine beat out Cole and Montgomery becuase they seem a little more intrigueing. Hunter makes it on ST's. I'm going to let go of my instinct to play it safe and cut Manuel for Bigby. I don't know who's going to be at TE but after Lee and Franks I think we have to bring in someone from another roster.

That roster has 54 people. DT has 6 people instead of five.

[Harlan Huckleby]

:lol: rich

[superfan]

Considering some of the tough cuts at other positions, I would strongly consider only going with two QBs. Martin and Thompson have yet to show that they can help the team this year, and neither is looking like starting material in the future. Thompson does appear to have some more upside than Martin at this point, and could be stashed on the practice squad.

Might be worth it to keep someone like Cole, Clowney, Muir, Culver, or another borderline guy over a third QB. And Holliday might be able to take a few snaps if the situation becomes truly dire. If both Favre and Rodgers go down in the same game, the odds of that game being winnable are very slim, so playing Holliday over Martin or Thompson likely wouldn't matter much.

Since the Favre era has started, has the third QB ever seen the field, except in mop up duty? Just taking up a roster spot.

Assuming Favre and Rodgers both get hurt, my guess is we could pick up almost anybody and they could be equally (in)effective.

[SkinBasket]

I'm also counting on Travon Williams passing Dendy on the depth chart and beating him out for a roster spot if it comes to it. Of course I'm not sure that's possible given how stubborn we've been with trying to make players succeed on our defense despite the fact they suck ass instead of cutting our losses and moving on.

[Brohm]

As far as third string QBs seeing the field the most infamous was the "audible" in the Vikings game years ago...what was his name? T. J. Rubely :shock: or something like that (former Ram). He never saw the field again.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Packers: Who will make the team?
By JASON WILDE

GREEN BAY — One of Ted Thompson's favorite words is competition. To the Green Bay Packers' third-year general manager, from competition springs individual improvement, which leads to team success.

"I think we have more competition at more positions than in the past, which I think theoretically will lead to a better team, if we put these players in the right positions and we make the right decisions," Thompson said. "So I feel pretty good about the team. Most of these guys are football guys. I like the group."

What Thompson doesn't like is paring the roster down from the 87 players on it to an NFL-mandated 53 for the Sept. 9 regular-season opener against Philadelphia, a task he says is going to be difficult given how close many of those competitions are.

While he has a general idea of how the roster will look, very little is certain going into Thursday night's third preseason game against Jacksonville at Lambeau Field.

"Things do change. Some guys that maybe aren't playing very well will all of a sudden play really good in the last couple of games, or vice versa," Thompson said. "We're constantly going through different combinations of players and looking at the board and seeing how it looks, and doing it again. But there's not that many decisions already made."

With the NFL's two mandatory roster reductions — to 75 players by 3 p.m. Tuesday and to 53 players by 3 p.m. Sept. 1 — in mind, here's a subjective look at where the Packers stand entering Thursday's game against the Jaguars.

Quarterbacks (2 or 3)

In: Brett Favre, Aaron Rodgers.

On the bubble: Ingle Martin, Paul Thompson.

Favre is the icon. Rodgers has been impressive through two games — 28-of-43 for 265 yards, three touchdowns, no interceptions and a 105.3 rating — and now looks like a very worthy heir apparent. The question is at No. 3, where Martin, a 2006 fifth-round pick, hasn't shown much. Thompson, an undrafted rookie free agent, has shown flashes but was horrible against Seattle. The coaches want to see Martin take a step forward tonight after he was knocked out of the preseason opener at Pittsburgh by a blow to the head.

"When you've got a guy (in Ingle) who's been in your program now for over a full year, you want to see some development," offensive coordinator Joe Philbin said. "We'll be interested to see how far he's come."

It's possible the Packers could keep just Favre and Rodgers and put Thompson on the practice squad.

Running backs (5 or 6)

In: Brandon Jackson, Korey Hall.

On the bubble: Vernand Morency, Noah Herron, Corey White, Brandon Miree, DeShawn Wynn.

Out: P.J. Pope, Ryan Powdrell.

No area is more uncertain than the backfield, where Jackson, a rookie second-round pick, has assumed the starting halfback job because Morency hasn't practiced since the opening of camp July 28, when he strained the patellar tendon in his right knee. Coach Mike McCarthy thinks he'll be ready for the opener, but who knows for sure?

Miree is listed as the starting fullback on the depth chart but has missed significant time with a stinger, allowing Hall, a converted college linebacker and rookie sixth-round pick, to make a run at the job. Herron seems safe as the third-down back, but the position is in too much flux to know for sure.

Wynn teased the coaches with a glimpse of his ability in practice before a quadriceps injury put him back on the sideline before the games started. It's hard to believe he hasn't found a way to get back on the field. Pope and Powdrell's knee injuries killed their chances.

Wide receivers (5 or 6)

In: Donald Driver, Greg Jennings, James Jones, Ruvell Martin.

On the bubble: Carlyle Holiday, David Clowney, Chris Francies.

Out: Calvin Russell, Carlton Brewster, Shaun Bodiford.

The release of Robert Ferguson was in part the result of Martin and Holiday's improvement. Holiday has the inside track on the No. 5 job, while Francies would have to do something spectacular to earn it. Clowney has struggled as a receiver and is more practice-squad material.

Bodiford had a realistic shot to make the team as a returner before a knee injury against Seattle knocked him out. Suspended receiver Koren Robinson is eligible for reinstatement Sept. 18, when his one-year ban for violating the NFL's substance-abuse policy expires.

Tight ends (3)

In: Donald Lee, Bubba Franks.

On the bubble: Zac Alcorn, Clark Harris

Out: Joe Werner.

The team kept four tight ends last year but barely has two worth keeping this year. Franks looks like a new man after back-to-back disappointing seasons, while Lee remains listed as the starter.

They'll see the bulk of the action because neither candidate for the No. 3 job has done much. Harris, a rookie seventh-round pick from Rutgers, could have seized the job but didn't. The competition is so poor that injured Tory Humphrey (ankle) was probably the best option here. Don't be surprised if the team claims a tight end on the final cuts. Werner isn't ready to play in the NFL but a year on the practice squad could make him an intriguing prospect.

Offensive line (9 or 10)

In: LT Chad Clifton, RT Mark Tauscher, C Scott Wells, RG Jason Spitz, LG Daryn Colledge, G Allen Barbre.

On the bubble: RT Tony Moll, T/G Junius Coston, G/C Tony Palmer, C/T Tyson Walter.

Out: T/G Travis Leffew, T/G Adam Stenavich, G Pat Murray, T Orrin Thompson, C C.J. Blomvall.

Barbre, a rookie fourth-round pick, appears to be the top backup, mainly because Moll has missed so much time with a pinched nerve in his neck. Palmer had been an option as the backup to Wells at center but a hamstring injury has sidelined him. Still, he figures to stick, as does Coston, a 2005 fifth-round pick who's finally starting to show why the team drafted him. Walter's versatility and experience could land him the final spot.

Defensive line (9 or 10)

In: DE Aaron Kampman, DE Cullen Jenkins, DT Ryan Pickett, DE Kabeer Gbaja-Biamila, DT Justin Harrell, DT Corey Williams, DT Johnny Jolly.

On the bubble: DE Michael Montgomery, DT Colin Cole, DE Jason Hunter, DT Daniel Muir.

Out: DE Larry Birdine, DE DeVon Hicks.

Jenkins, like Kampman last year, has taken his game to a higher plane after signing a big contract. Harrell, the rookie first-round pick, has been outplayed by Jolly, Williams, Pickett and Cole, but he's the No. 1 pick and will eventually be a player. Jolly's camp has been the most impressive, considering he did little as a sixth-round pick last year.

Montgomery was a lock after a strong camp but now could be headed to injured reserve with a knee injury suffered against Seattle. At best, he'll be inactive for the first few weeks of the season. That could open the door for Hunter. Cole deserves a roster spot but could be traded. Muir has been impressive as an undrafted rookie.

Linebackers (5 or 6)

In: MLB Nick Barnett, WLB A.J. Hawk, SLB Brady Poppinga.

On the bubble: MLB Abdul Hodge, WLB Tracy White, MLB Desmond Bishop, WLB Rory Johnson, SLB Spencer Havner.

Out: MLB-WLB Tim Goodwell, SLB Juwan Simpson.

The starters are set. The backups are anything but. White, a top-notch special-teamer, should make the team based on that alone. Bishop, a rookie sixth-round pick, is working ahead of Hodge, whose patellar tendinitis in both knees is troubling. Johnson, Havner, Bishop and Hodge are playing for the last one or two jobs tonight and next Thursday night.

Defensive backs (9 or 10)

In: CB Al Harris, S Nick Collins, CB Charles Woodson, S Atari Bigby, CB Will Blackmon, S Aaron Rouse, CB Jarrett Bush.

On the bubble: S Marquand Manuel, CB Patrick Dendy, S Tyrone Culver, CB Tramon Williams, CB Frank Walker, S Charlie Peprah.

Out: S Alvin Nnabuife, CB Antonio Malone.

Bigby starts Thursday night ahead of Manuel, and with rookie third-round pick Rouse, Culver and Peprah in the mix, Manuel could be cut. The team would take a $1.2 million hit on the salary cap in 2008, but it may be time for the club to admit it whiffed on him as a free agent. Marviel Underwood has already been cut, Manuel could be next.

Bush has taken the lead in the No. 3 corner spot over Dendy, but both figure to make the team. Blackmon's return work should land him a spot, too. Culver, a 2006 sixth-round pick, is reliable, while Peprah has flashed and is good on special teams.

Walker, the club's only unrestricted free-agent signing, simply hasn't shown as much as Bush, Blackmon, Dendy or Williams. He got a $150,000 signing bonus up front, but with a $750,000 base salary and $240,000 roster bonus (in the form of $15,000 for each game he's on the 45-man roster), he'll have to come on strong in the final two games to show he's worth keeping, both fiscally and given the younger players' improvement.

Special teams (3)

In: LS Rob Davis, P Jon Ryan.

On the bubble: K Dave Rayner, K Mason Crosby.

Out: P Ryan Dougherty.

Rayner and Crosby are in an intense duel for the kicking job, and special teams coordinator Mike Stock insists Crosby hasn't taken even a slight lead. Everything being equal, Crosby will likely get the nod based on potential, while Rayner's one year of experience kicking at Lambeau Field should help his chances. Ryan is punting extremely well, improving following a technique change.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Thompson knows feeling
By ROB REISCHEL

Green Bay - Ted Thompson will never forget when the end came.

It was the summer of 1985 when Thompson was set to start his 11th season as a linebacker for the Houston Oilers. Just four days before the season opener, though, Thompson found out that wouldn't be the case after all.

"I go through an entire practice on a Wednesday afternoon, and I come in and our head coach at the time was Hugh Campbell, and he's walking by my locker and he goes, 'Ted, can I see you for a second?' " said Thompson, who's Green Bay general manager today. "So I go in and talk to him, and we had a draft choice (first-round pick Ray Childress), . . . but he had been holding out all this time, and he had signed that day, so they released me to free up the roster spot for this new guy.

"So he gave me the speech, and then the defensive coordinator came in and gave me a speech, and the linebacker coach, and everybody else came in, and by the time they got through talking to me, not only was I surprised I got cut, I'm surprised I didn't get a raise, because everybody was saying what a great guy I was and all that. But that's what happened to me, and it really surprised me because I thought I was past that. I'd been through 10 years kind of wondering how it was going to go. I was an old grizzled vet, so I thought I was past the danger point, but I wasn't."

Today, Thompson's in a much different spot. Instead of hoping to make a roster, he'll hand pick Green Bay's 53-man team.

The first cut-down day is Aug. 28 when teams need to get their rosters to 75. Then on Sept. 1, teams set their final 53-man roster.

Thompson said he's still evaluating several scenarios, but by now, the roster is pretty well set. Here's a guess at how the 2007 Packers will look.

QUARTERBACKS (3)

• Keep: Brett Favre, Aaron Rodgers, Paul Thompson.

• Cut: Ingle Martin.

The first two quarterbacks are clear-cut. Favre is nearing the end of a Hall of Fame career. Rodgers has had his most impressive summer since the Packers used a first-round draft pick on him in 2005. The only battle is between Martin, last year's No. 3, and rookie free agent Thompson. Martin has struggled throughout much of camp and doesn't appear to have gotten any better. Thompson is more raw than Martin and threw two interceptions Saturday against Seattle. Still, Thompson carries more upside, which makes him the perfect player to groom behind Favre and Rodgers.

RUNNING BACKS (4)

• Keep: Brandon Jackson, Vernand Morency, Noah Herron, Corey White.

• Cut: DeShawn Wynn, P.J. Pope.

Jackson has the inside track on the starting job, largely because Morency has been out since the first day of camp. Herron has done nothing to hurt his chances of being the third-down back again. White, a rookie free agent, could surprise and stick largely because he can also play fullback and his ability on short-yardage and goal-line plays. Wynn, a seventh-round draft pick, and Pope had their chances ruined due to injuries throughout camp.

FULLBACKS (2)

• Keep: Brandon Miree, Korey Hall.

• Cut: Ryan Powdrell.

Miree has missed both pre-season games with a shoulder stinger, but remains the best bet to be the opening-day starter. Don't rule out Hall, though, a converted linebacker who has taken to the position quickly. Regardless if Hall starts, his roster spot is safe because he's a potential standout on special teams. Powdrell, another converted linebacker, failed to impress then suffered an MCL injury against Seattle.

WIDE RECEIVERS (5)

• Keep: Donald Driver, Greg Jennings, James Jones, Ruvell Martin, Carlyle Holiday.

• Cut: Shaun Bodiford, David Clowney, Carlton Brewster, Chris Francies, Calvin Russell.

Jones has been the surprise of camp and could eventually push Jennings as the starter opposite Driver. Martin has had a big summer and built on what was a solid first year in Green Bay. Holiday, who has caught a TD pass in each of the first two pre-season games, has the edge for the fifth and final job. Holiday could be a real weapon in the red zone and has become integral on special teams. Bodiford appeared to have a decent chance of surviving earlier in camp. But he's been passed in the return game by CB Will Blackmon and suffered an MCL injury against Seattle. Clowney is weak and has been awful as a receiver, but GM Thompson might try saving face and store the fifth-round pick on the practice squad. The rest of the group were all long shots coming to camp and didn't show enough to stick around.

TIGHT ENDS (3)

• Keep: Donald Lee, Bubba Franks, Zac Alcorn.

• Cut: Clark Harris.

Lee has had a solid camp and is the likely starter. But Lee's still best suited to be a backup and the Packers would be well advised to add another tight end before camp ends. Franks flashed against the Seahawks (4-30) for one of the first times all summer and will stick. Alcorn gets the nod at No. 3 over Harris, although Harris might wind up on the practice squad.

OFFENSIVE LINE (9)

• Keep: Chad Clifton, Daryn Colledge, Scott Wells, Jason Spitz, Mark Tauscher, Tony Moll, Allen Barbre, Junius Coston, Tyson Walter.

• Cut: Tony Palmer, Orrin Thompson, Travis Leffew, Pat Murray, Adam Stenavich, C.J. Blomvall

The starting five of Clifton, Colledge, Wells, Spitz and Tauscher returns intact. Moll can play guard and tackle, but it appears he's being groomed to replace Tauscher in 2009. Barbre, a rookie fourth-rounder who has spent most of training camp at left guard, has impressed and appears to be a future starter, as well. Coston has likely bought himself a third year with his ability to play multiple positions. Walter's versatility gives him the edge over an injured Palmer for the ninth and final spot.

DEFENSIVE ENDS (4)

• Keep: Aaron Kampman, Cullen Jenkins, Kabeer Gbaja-Biamila, Mike Montgomery.

• Cut: Jason Hunter, DeVon Hicks, Larry Birdine.

Kampman, a Pro Bowl selection in 2006, and the ascending Jenkins give the Packers a dynamic pair of ends. Gbaja-Biamila figures to make a major impact as a nickel pass rusher. Montgomery, a third-year player, was having his best camp before suffering an MCL injury against Seattle. If Montgomery rebounds quickly enough, he's in. If he has to go on the PUP list, Hunter is likely to survive.

DEFENSIVE TACKLES (5)

• Keep: Ryan Pickett, Corey Williams, Johnny Jolly, Justin Harrell, Colin Cole.

• Cut: Daniel Muir.

This is the deepest and arguably the most talented position on Green Bay's roster. The Packers believe they have at least three players who are of starting caliber and will employ a rotation system. There is a chance Green Bay could trade a tackle and try shoring up an area of weakness such as tight end. If the Packers do so, Williams - a free agent at the end of the year - would be the most likely to go.

LINEBACKERS (6)

• Keep: A.J. Hawk, Nick Barnett, Brady Poppinga, Tracy White, Desmond Bishop, Abdul Hodge.

• Cut: Spencer Havner, Juwan Simpson, Tim Goodwell, Rory Johnson.

The starters - Hawk, Barnett and Poppinga - could develop into an upper echelon unit. White will return for a second season because he's one of Green Bay's best special teams players. Bishop, a sixth-round draft choice, has passed Hodge up in this camp as the top reserve in the middle. Bishop might also be able to play on the strong side. Hodge, a third-round pick in 2006, has been limited by patellar tendinitis in both knees. But because GM Thompson has a soft spot for linebackers, the guess is he'll keep six and Hodge will survive by a whisker.

CORNERBACKS (5)

• Keep: Charles Woodson, Al Harris, Jarrett Bush, Will Blackmon, Patrick Dendy.

• Cut: Tramon Williams, Frank Walker, Antonio Malone.

Woodson should have been a Pro Bowl pick a year ago. Harris is a solid complement. The pair rivals Chicago and Philadelphia for the best tandem in the NFC. Bush and Blackmon are young, ascending players who've had strong camps. Dendy, the No. 3 cornerback a year ago, has probably done enough to stick, but is unlikely to keep his job in the nickel. It's not unfathomable that Dendy could lose out to Williams, a practice-squad player last year who's clearly improved. Walker, Green Bay's only free-agent acquisition this off-season, has flopped and figures to be sent packing.

SAFETIES (4)

• Keep: Nick Collins, Atari Bigby, Marquand Manuel, Aaron Rouse.

• Cut: Marviel Underwood, Tyrone Culver, Charlie Peprah, Alvin Nnabuife.

Collins has Pro Bowl ability and is a lock at one starter. Bigby looked like the second coming of LeRoy Butler against Seattle and seems poised to win the job opposite Collins. Manuel, a starter last season, has been better this camp than any time in 2006. Manuel could be cut if he loses out to Bigby, but he's a Thompson favorite who will likely serve as a veteran backup. Rouse has shown little this summer, but survives because he was a third-round pick. Underwood is coming off a torn ACL and hasn't been nearly the player he was last summer. Because of that, his time could be up. Culver was Green Bay's No. 3 safety last season, but loses out in a numbers game this year.

SPECIALISTS (3)

• Keep: Kicker Mason Crosby, punter Jon Ryan, long-snapper Rob Davis.

• Cut: Kicker Dave Rayner, punter Ryan Dougherty.

The best battle in camp has come between the incumbent Rayner and the rookie Crosby. Their daily accuracy has been extremely close to date, but Crosby has the bigger leg and more upside. Rayner, who made a disappointing 74.3% of his attempts a year ago, will likely kick somewhere in the league. It just won't be in Green Bay. Ryan has been much more consistent this summer after changing to a two-step approach.

[Guiness]

I dunno about keeping only 2 QB's. Do we have any WR's or anyone who could fill in as an emergency QB?

Don't forget the game against NE last season when Rodgers went in, and broke his foot, after they took Favre out with a banged up elbow. Rodgers toughed it out, and stayed in, but if he'd come out...

[HarveyWallbangers]

I dunno about keeping only 2 QB's. Do we have any WR's or anyone who could fill in as an emergency QB?

WR Holiday was a QB at Notre Dame.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Roster analysis: Trades, waiver-wire pickups may be utilized to fill Packers' roster
By Pete Dougherty, Green Bay Press Gazette

Ted Thompson might be just as busy on the waiver wire and making trades at the end of this training camp as he was after last year's.

After final cuts last September, the Green Bay Packers' general manager picked up three players off waivers for his 53-man roster. This year, because injuries and shaky play have put his team in a roster bind at halfback, fullback and tight end, Thompson and his scouting staff are studying every team's game tapes especially close at those positions for possible trades or waiver pickups before the start of the regular season.

"That's what we're working on — we work on all positions all the times," Thompson said. "So, if we can upgrade, we will."

The Packers say they expect to get back halfback Vernand Morency, a likely significant contributor, by the regular-season opener. Whether that happens remains to be seen.

Regardless, along with injuries to halfbacks P.J. Pope and rookie halfback DeShawn Wynn, and fullbacks Ryan Powdrell and Brandon Miree, the team alarmingly is thin at both backfield positions only two weeks before the regular-season opener.

At tight end, the Packers are desperate for a third-stringer after being left thin by Tory Humphrey's season-ending broken leg early in camp, and the struggles of Zac Alcorn (blistered feet) and rookie Clark Harris.

Perhaps one or two of those problems will fix themselves —aybe Wynn returns from his thigh injury next week and performs well, for instance. Or Alcorn or Harris plays much better in the final two exhibition games. But there's at least as good a chance Thompson and his scouting staff will have to acquire a key backup or two.

The Packers might have some trade bait with their excess depth at the defensive line and secondary, if they can find someone who wants to deal.

"To do a trade," Thompson said, "you have to have two teams where what you have extra, they need, and what they have extra, you need. Nobody's going to be trading starting quarterbacks or anything like that. If you're looking for something at a particular position and fits what maybe another team is looking to do, it works out."

Following is a breakdown of the Packers' 87-man roster before the cuts to 75 on Aug. 28 and final cuts to 53 on Sept. 1.

Quarterbacks (2 or 3)

# Locks: Brett Favre, Aaron Rodgers.

# On the bubble: Ingle Martin, Paul Thompson.

# Comment: In 2001, former coach and GM Mike Sherman carried only two quarterbacks the final six weeks of the season, and several NFL teams opened last season with only two quarterbacks on the roster. Ted Thompson never has done that, but even if it's not likely, it's something he might consider this year, especially if there's an extra defensive lineman or defensive back he values.

Undrafted rookie Paul Thompson shows some potential with a live arm and good mobility, and is pushing second-year pro Ingle Martin for the No. 3 job. But both have had their struggles in camp and especially the first two preseason games. Both are eligible for the practice squad. Considering Favre's historic durability, the Packers are as well equipped as any team to go with only two quarterbacks. Plus, with receiver Carlyle Holiday a strong bet to make the roster, the Packers at least would have an emergency quarterback who played the position in college, at Notre Dame.

Running backs (5 or 6)

# Locks: RB Brandon Jackson, RB Vernand Morency, FB Korey Hall.

# On the bubble: RB Noah Herron, RB-FB Corey White, FB Brandon Miree, RB DeShawn Wynn.

# Long shots: RB P.J. Pope, FB Erryn Cobb, FB Ryan Powdrell.

# Comment: The injuries to seventh-round pick Wynn (quadriceps pull) and second-year pro Pope (knee cartilage) helped blow up this position, because both are more talented than Herron, and the Packers hoped one of them would upgrade their No. 3 halfback. Instead, Herron holds that job for now. He's conscientious and dependable, but that still has to scare the Packers because of Morency's patellar-tendon injury sustained on the first day of camp. If Morency has more problems with his knee, or the rookie starter Jackson gets hurt, Herron would move up to the No. 2 job, where his pedestrian explosiveness is a liability.

The team also is hurting at fullback, where converted linebacker Korey Hall has made a fast transition as a rookie and will be the starter unless the Packers pick up a more experienced player at that position. Miree started camp slowly and then has been in and out of practice the last three weeks because of a nerve injury in his neck and shoulder. Powdrell, an undrafted rookie, lost whatever shot he had at making the roster with an MCL injury last week that will sideline him three to six weeks. Also, White hasn't done enough so far to warrant a job at a hybrid halfback-fullback and has only two games to change that.

Receivers (5 or 6)

# Locks: Donald Driver, Greg Jennings, James Jones, Ruvell Martin.

# Good bet: Carlyle Holiday.

# On the bubble: David Clowney.

# Long shots: Chris Francies, Shaun Bodiford, Calvin Russell, Carlton Brewster.

# Comment: The third-round pick Jones has been one of the stars of training camp and a surprise to any scouts who considered him a late-round prospect. He's wrapped up the No. 3 receiving job and might provide a substantial upgrade from last year.

Martin and Holiday played well enough in camp to make injury-prone Robert Ferguson expendable. Neither is fast, but Martin is a big (6-foot-4) and polished receiver who could be a red-zone threat, and Holiday has become a good special-teams cover man.

Clowney, a fifth-round pick, is the best pure vertical threat on the roster and has improved as camp has gone on, but he's still raw and a better bet for the practice squad than the 53-man roster. Bodiford had a shot at a roster spot as a special-teams player and receiver prospect until his MCL injury last week against Seattle.

Tight end (3 or 4)

# Lock: Donald Lee, Bubba Franks.

# On the bubble: Zac Alcorn, Clark Harris.

# Long shot: Joe Werner.

# Comment: Lee, the new starter, has been a consistent receiver so far in camp, but this looks like a weak position overall. Franks, the best blocker of the group, looks a tad quicker this year and has had an OK camp after two sub-par years, but still has the same limitations with speed and agility that he's always had. He and Lee will share time and probably get plenty of snaps in two tight-end sets.

Alcorn supposedly has the best hands of the group, and the Packers had high hopes for him going into camp, but he hasn't distinguished himself. He gamely practiced through horrendous blistering on his feet, caused by excessive practice reps after injuries hit early in camp, and that's surely contributed to his struggles. But he'll need to play well in the last two games to win a roster spot.

Harris has been better lately but probably not good enough after an extremely slow start in camp. Joe Werner, the former UW-La Crosse basketball player, might warrant a shot on the practice squad. Humphrey probably was the best athlete of the group and might have won the No. 3 job if not for his broken leg.

Offensive line (9 or 10)

# Locks: T Chad Clifton, G Daryn Colledge, C Scott Wells, G Jason Spitz, T Mark Tauscher, G Allen Barbre.

# Good bets: G-T Junius Coston, T Tony Moll.

# On the bubble: C-T Tyson Walter, C-G Tony Palmer.

# Long shots: G-T Adam Stenavich, C C.J. Blomvall, G Pat Murray, G-T Travis Leffew, T Orrin Thompson.

# Comment: The fourth-round pick Barbre has been better than either Spitz or Colledge were last year as rookies. He could be a left guard or left tackle of the future.

Coston finally has made a nice jump in his third season, and with his versatility — he probably could play anywhere on the offensive line if needed — has all but locked up a backup job. Moll has had a tough camp, because he's still unpolished and has been in and out of practice since Aug. 7 because of a shoulder stinger. Still, he has too much potential to cut.

Palmer is one of the best drive blockers on the roster, so that could win him a job even though he's been slowed by a hamstring injury the past week. Walter's versatility to play several positions also could land him a job.

Defensive line (9 or 10)

# Locks: DE Aaron Kampman, DT Ryan Pickett, DT Justin Harrell, DE Cullen Jenkins, DT Corey Williams, DE Kabeer Gbaja-Biamila.

# Good bets: DT Colin Cole, DT Johnny Jolly.

# On the bubble: DE Michael Montgomery, DE Jason Hunter, DE Larry Birdine.

# Long shots: DT Daniel Muir, DE DeVon Hicks.

# Comment: The Packers are deep enough at defensive tackle to warrant keeping five — Pickett, Harrell, Williams, Jolly and Cole. They could deal one of them, but Thompson values big men and might be loathe to leaving the position vulnerable to injuries.

Montgomery was having a good camp as a backup DE but probably will miss six weeks because of an MCL injury, so Thompson will have to decide whether to carry him on the roster while he recovers for the first month or more of the season, or place him on injured reserve. Hunter has played a big role on special teams and is a decent outside rusher who could replace Montgomery. Birdine, an undrafted rookie, has looked more like the good prospect he was early in his career at Oklahoma rather than the underachiever of the last couple years. He has some pass-rush talent that might make him worth keeping. Muir, another undrafted rookie, might have a decent shot at making the roster in past years, but unless there are injuries or trades appears out of luck this year.

Linebackers (5 or 6)

# Locks: WLB A.J. Hawk, MLB Nick Barnett, SLB Brady Poppinga.

# On the bubble: SLB Spencer Havner, WLB Tracy White, MLB Abdul Hodge, MLB Desmond Bishop, WLB Rory Johnson.

# Long shots: WLB Tim Goodwell, SLB Juwan Simpson.

# Comment: The starters are set and a strength of the defense, but the backups are a major concern. Hodge's patellar tendinitis in both knees has diminished his play and left him in a dead heat with Bishop for the backup job at middle linebacker. Bishop worked with the No. 2 defense this week in practice.

Havner could be a special-teams core player and is versatile enough to play two or three of the linebacker positions, so he has a decent shot at a job. White is a special-teams standout from the last two seasons and could win a spot on that account. Undrafted rookie Rory Johnson is the most physically gifted of the group and will get a long look the last two games now that he's close to fully recovered from an abdominal strain.

Defensive backs (9 or 10)

# Locks: CB Charles Woodson, CB Al Harris, S Nick Collins, S Atari Bigby, CB Jarrett Bush, S Aaron Rouse, CB Will Blackmon.

# On the bubble: S Marquand Manuel, S Charlie Peprah, S Tyrone Culver, CB Patrick Dendy, CB Frank Walker, CB Tramon Williams.

# Long shots: S Alvin Nnabuife, CB Antonio Malone.

# Comment: Bigby has a great shot at beating out Manuel for the starting job opposite Collins this week. If Bigby performs, Manuel could become trade bait or a possible cut. The Packers cut Marviel Underwood so they could get a longer look at Peprah and Culver before deciding whether either should be No. 4 safety if Manuel is expendable.

Similar to Bigby at safety, Bush has a chance to nail down the No. 3 cornerback job this week after replacing Dendy in that role in practice. He's been the third-best cornerback for most of camp. Blackmon, who has all but locked up the job as punt and kickoff returner, still could get consideration for that job as well. Williams and Walker will be battling Dendy for the fifth and likely final CB job. Dendy was the No. 3 last year and is assignment-sure, but didn't improve as much as Bush and Blackmon. Williams has flashed cover skills, especially early in camp. Walker, who received a $150,000 bonus as the Packers' only free-agent signee this offseason, hasn't played as well as projected and needs a big final two games to win a spot.

Specialists (3)

# Locks: P Jon Ryan, LS Rob Davis.

# On the bubble: K Dave Rayner, K Mason Crosby.

# Long shot: P Ryan Dougherty.

# Comment: Rayner and the sixth-round pick Crosby have been in a near dead heat for the kicking job all training camp. Crosby ultimately could get the nod because of his youth and perhaps slightly better long-term talent, but Rayner has a strong leg as well and kicked in Green Bay's climate for a year. Both have good temperaments for the job. The last two preseason games will be critical.

Ryan has adapted well to changing from a three-step punter to two steps and improved his hang times as well.

[CaliforniaCheez]

IT is no longer early and the Jacksonville game will likely be the deciding factor.

The Titans game is a nonfactor.

[Guiness]

I dunno about keeping only 2 QB's. Do we have any WR's or anyone who could fill in as an emergency QB?

WR Holiday was a QB at Notre Dame.

Didn't know that...why not then?

[HarveyWallbangers]

Late Stab At The Roster
By Harvey Wallbangers

QUARTERBACKS (2): Brett Favre, Aaron Rodgers

Paul Thompson hasn't shown enough to keep on the roster. WR Carlyle Holiday can be the emergency QB.

RUNNING BACKS (4): Brandon Jackson, Vernand Morency, Noah Herron, DeShawn Wynn

If he shows anything against Tennessee, Wynn will make the roster.

FULLBACKS (2): Korey Hall, Brandon Miree

If Wynn falters, then Corey White has a good chance at making the roster as a combination RB/FB at the expense of Miree.

WIDE RECEIVERS (6): Donald Driver, Greg Jennings, James Jones, Ruvell Martin, Carlyle Holiday, David Clowney

Clowney has looked better in practice recently, and if he can put together a good game against Tennessee, he may stick as a 6th WR. Interestingly, it may come down to whether Tony Moll is healthy enough at the start of the season. If Moll is healthy, the Packers can afford to go with 8 OL.

TIGHT ENDS (3): Donald Lee, Bubba Franks, Clark Harris

Zac Alcorn has had a year to improve, and it appears he hasn't taken that step. More than likely, both Harris and Alcorn get cut and a TE is picked up later in the week.

OFFENSIVE LINE (8): Chad Clifton, Daryn Colledge, Scott Wells, Jason Spitz, Mark Tauscher, Tony Moll, Allen Barbre, Junius Coston

If Moll returns before the opener, the Packers may keep only 8 OL. A healthy Moll and Coston could fill all 5 OL spots because of their versatility. If Moll is slow in returning, look for Tyson Walter to be on the team in the early part of the season. Tony Palmer had a good shot at making the team, but he's missed too much time to injury. Adam Stenavich is not out of the running yet.

DEFENSIVE ENDS (5): Aaron Kampman, Cullen Jenkins, Kabeer Gbaja-Biamila, Mike Montgomery, Jason Hunter

Montgomery looked improved before his injury, and he should be able to return by the end of September, so he makes the team. The last spot is a tossup between Hunter and Larry Birdine.

DEFENSIVE TACKLES (5): Ryan Pickett, Johnny Jolly, Corey Williams, Justin Harrell, Colin Cole.

Daniel Muir still has a chance at winning a roster spot. The Packers may attempt to trade Cole or Muir for help at another position.

LINEBACKERS (6): A.J. Hawk, Nick Barnett, Brady Poppinga, Tracy White, Desmond Bishop, Spencer Havner

The guess here is that the Packers keep Havner or Rory Johnson. White is a good special teams player, but he's limited as a LB. Bishop looks like a MLB only at this point. Havner provides more versatility--while Johnson has more upside.

CORNERBACKS (5): Charles Woodson, Al Harris, Jarrett Bush, Will Blackmon, Frank Walker

The final corner spot looks to be between Walker and Patrick Dendy. Walker struggled early in camp, but has played well in the last two preseason games. Dendy has little upside, and the guess is that the Packers keep Walker.

SAFETIES (4): Nick Collins, Atari Bigby, Aaron Rouse, Charlie Peprah

Tyrone Culver and Marquand Manuel still have a shot, but this could come down to Peprah. If he has a good game against Tennessee, he likely beats out Culver and Manuel.

SPECIALISTS (3): Mason Crosby, Jon Ryan, Rob Davis.

Dave Rayner and Crosby are similar kickers, but Crosby has a little more upside. Crosby has been better on FGs--while Rayner has been slightly better on kickoffs. The Packers are hoping to get compensation for Rayner.

[Partial]

I think you have it 100% correct.

Birdline and Muir seem like pretty good players to cut unfortunately. That is a good problem to have, though.