JOLLY SHINING

[Bretsky]

Jolly makes big push
Defensive tackle impresses in camp
By BOB McGINN
bmcginn@journalsentinel.com
Posted: Aug. 6, 2007

Green Bay - It sure seemed that Robert Nunn was guilty of temerity when, a few days before the start of training camp, he made the rather startling observation that Johnny Jolly wasn't far off from being a starting-caliber player for the Green Bay Packers.

Today, the team's co-defensive line coach looks neither rash nor bold after Jolly's terrific performance in the first week of practice. On Monday, Jolly was rewarded with a berth at right defensive tackle on the No. 1 defense.

Jolly had a big scrimmage Saturday night and another good day in practice Monday afternoon. The Packers are five deep at the position and the rotation isn't even close to being settled, but Jolly's ascension isn't without significance, either.

Given that Ryan Pickett and Corey Williams return as solid starters, Justin Harrell was drafted in the first round and Colin Cole played 327 more snaps than Jolly in 2006, isn't it ridiculous to think that Jolly could be starting Sept. 9 against Philadelphia?

"That's not ridiculous at all," said Reggie McKenzie, the club's director of pro personnel.

Despite the fact that Harrell's name was listed No. 1 at right tackle on the camp-opening depth chart, Williams and Cole actually ran first string for most of the first nine practices and the intra-squad scrimmage. Jolly and Pickett were second string, with Harrell and rookie Daniel Muir third string.

Neither Jolly nor Pickett was allowed to practice until the fourth day of camp, one day after they passed a conditioning exercise that they flunked July 27.

Pickett did and still does look somewhat out of shape. Jolly's weight was fine and his conditioning seemed OK, but for some reason he fizzled on test day.

That's ancient history now. Pickett was back starting Monday alongside Jolly, with Williams and Cole No. 2 and Harrell and Muir still No. 3.

Barring a trade, five tackles are expected to make the 53-man roster. Barring injury, one of the five probably won't be active on game day.

"That's a strong position for us," McKenzie said. "To tell you the truth, in this situation the (exhibition) games will separate that. Just let them all battle."

On Saturday night, Jolly opened at right tackle for the No. 2 defense against the No. 1 offense. On three of the first four plays he flashed exactly the improved play that the coaches have been seeing daily.

Brandon Jackson's 2-yard gain on a draw play would have been more if Jolly hadn't shed the block by center Scott Wells to make the tackle.

Then, after Greg Jennings came down inside to make a 5-yard reception, Jolly showed outstanding hustle and charged back to help on the tackle.

On the next play, Noah Herron burst for 5 away from Jolly, who once more got off Wells to make the stop.

"Very active," McKenzie said. "He's not a situational guy. He is complete."

Having missed the first four practices, Jolly did have fresh legs when allowed to practice last Tuesday. But that can't begin to account for how well he has fared in the one-on-one pass rush drill.

In the span of a week, Jolly has taken 12 turns against a total of nine different offensive linemen. By subjective judgment, Jolly has beaten his man nine times, lost two and had one draw.

Now compare Jolly's production against his fellow competitors. Harrell owns a 4-10-5 record, followed by Muir (3-11-6), Pickett (1-3), Cole (1-6) and Williams (0-4-2).

Even end Cullen Jenkins, regarded as the team's best inside rusher, is just 4-7-1. And the majority of Jenkins' repetitions have come against the same people trying to block Jolly.

Jolly has displayed a new spin move, much like Jenkins'. He has the size (6 feet 3 inches, 325 pounds) to bull rush but also the skill to get on the edge of blockers.

"He's got quick feet and he's got quick hands," McKenzie said. "That's why he's pretty good there (rushing the passer)."

Jolly wasn't first on this watch list or that All-American team, nor was he even all-state as a prep in Houston. He made all-district three times, backed up nose tackle Ty Warren as a freshman at Texas A&M before starting the next three seasons (6½ sacks) and was drafted by Green Bay in the sixth round.

"I've never been on top," Jolly said. "I'm always the underdog, so I'll never stop fighting. I'm going to keep working until I get it (starting job). I mean, that's the only way to go. I'm trying to help my family."

McKenzie loves what he has seen of Jolly's energy level and temperament this summer. This Jolly is better than the Jolly of '06, he says.

"Good kid," McKenzie said. "Real good kid. Very likeable. I like his progress. He's more comfortable with his technique and his responsibilities. Without a doubt."

By next week, McKenzie acknowledged that teams will have looked at exhibition tape and some might inquire about the Packers' interest in dealing a defensive tackle.

"I'm sure other teams might come knocking," he said. "But I don't want to let any of those guys go."

[Scott Campbell]

That's not your typical fluff piece.

[KYPack]

Jolly is a good hand and all, but he isn't the talent Harrell is. Jolly has developed a spin move and is real slick at knifing his body thru the line. Jolly gives us a strong rotation at DT.

Cole might be trade bait. He went from starter to De-activated in one week last year.

[wist43]

Jolly looked pretty good in the scrimmage... but, ragdolling Wells has to be taken with a grain of salt. One on one, I would expect most DT's to handle Wells fairly easily.

That said, Wells really didn't have much trouble walking Harrell back two yds into the end zone on Jackson's TD run.

Harrell has looked very pedestrian... I'm not worried about him though, coming back from the bicep injury is going to take time. I had hoped that Harrell could be in the starting lineup on run downs, but at this point he's not even close to ready.

At this very early stage I think the starting lineups have to be:

Run downs:
Jenkins, Jolly, Pickett, Kampman

Passing downs:
KGB, Jenkins, Williams, Kampman

At this point Harrell, Cole, Montegomery, Hunter, et al are rotation bodies.

[Cheesehead Craig]

Jolly looked pretty good in the scrimmage... but, ragdolling Wells has to be taken with a grain of salt. One on one, I would expect most DT's to handle Wells fairly easily.

That said, Wells really didn't have much trouble walking Harrell back two yds into the end zone on Jackson's TD run.

Harrell has looked very pedestrian... I'm not worried about him though, coming back from the bicep injury is going to take time. I had hoped that Harrell could be in the starting lineup on run downs, but at this point he's not even close to ready.

At this very early stage I think the starting lineups have to be:

Run downs:
Jenkins, Jolly, Pickett, Kampman

Passing downs:
KGB, Jenkins, Williams, Kampman

At this point Harrell, Cole, Montegomery, Hunter, et al are rotation bodies.
+1

[Zool]

Jolly looked pretty good in the scrimmage... but, ragdolling Wells has to be taken with a grain of salt. One on one, I would expect most DT's to handle Wells fairly easily.

That said, Wells really didn't have much trouble walking Harrell back two yds into the end zone on Jackson's TD run.

Harrell has looked very pedestrian... I'm not worried about him though, coming back from the bicep injury is going to take time. I had hoped that Harrell could be in the starting lineup on run downs, but at this point he's not even close to ready.

At this very early stage I think the starting lineups have to be:

Run downs:
Jenkins, Jolly, Pickett, Kampman

Passing downs:
KGB, Jenkins, Williams, Kampman

At this point Harrell, Cole, Montegomery, Hunter, et al are rotation bodies.Good call on Jolly. You've been touting him since last year.

[Carolina_Packer]

This is really making that Cleveland offer on draft day seem like it would have been a good idea. If they had only known how much they already had developmentally at DT, they could have taken Cleveland's offer and drafted in their slots in the 2nd-4th rounds (correct me if I'm wrong on that). Then perhaps we look at a guy like Eric Weddle in the early second round, or someone at the skill position.

Oh well, now we have a strong D-line, and will have fresh bodies to rotate during the season. I just hope Harrell doesn't become a wasted pick if they can't get him meaningful time on the field this year. Nice problem to have, I guess. Most teams aren't going to cry if someone like Jolly steps up or Williams becomes an even more complete player, but it's a bit of a high price to pay (a first rounder) to light a fire under other players' butts.

If TT and staff had known that Jolly was going to step up like this and provide that depth, I wonder if they would have drafted someone other than Harrell in the 16th spot in the first round. Your thoughts?

[MJZiggy]

Maybe if they know that, they take the offer...

[HarveyWallbangers]

That said, Wells really didn't have much trouble walking Harrell back two yds into the end zone on Jackson's TD run.

Harrell has looked very pedestrian... I'm not worried about him though, coming back from the bicep injury is going to take time. I had hoped that Harrell could be in the starting lineup on run downs, but at this point he's not even close to ready.

I watched a different scrimmage. I didn't see who was in there on Jackson's two runs from the one. He was stuffed on one, and scored on the other. However, I watched Harrell on a few plays in the scrimmage. On two runs up the middle, the RB was stuffed for a 1-2 yard gains. On another, he walked Barbre into the backfield and knocked down a Rodgers pass. I don't think he looked as poor as it's been reported. At the worst, I think he can be a good run defender early.

[Brohm]

Given how TT drafts, I don't think swapping picks with Cleveland would have had any impact on who he drafted. He doesn't go for the "name-brand" players but goes for who he thinks is the BPA.

So basically would be trading help now for another 1st next year. Having Harrel now gives us some options at DT, and we will see what people offer for the odd man out, thus getting that pick next year or maybe some specific help this year (TE :shock: ). Also we have great depth in the trenches (OL last year and now the DL).

Maybe the shifted picks could have netted us Moss :?:

If Cleveland would mave thrown in another hard pick this year maybe TT would have went for it otherwise the trade as is doesn't stack up as well given how TT drafts.

Hope that made sense :P I don't think I artciulated that particularly well.

[Packgator]

If TT and staff had known that Jolly was going to step up like this and provide that depth, I wonder if they would have drafted someone other than Harrell in the 16th spot in the first round. Your thoughts?

Could be drafting DT Harrell at number one has given guys like Jolly reason to pick it up a few notches. Competition is good. I wonder what Jolly and the other DT's were thinking to themselves on draft day?

[woodbuck27]

As I recall it.

Johnny Jolly also came to us with a reputation as a natural leader and a solid attitude.

Maybe he'll feed off Aaron Kampman's work ethic and develop a fuller potential.

[PaCkFan_n_MD]

If Jolly turns out to be a great run stopper with decent pass rushing skills than the Harrell pick was a waste because that’s exactly what Harrell will give us. We have so many guys at DT now that we probably will have to trade one away. I think we should of taken the Browns offer or even drafted Quinn are selves. I would rather be stacked at QB than DT. The only way I like this pick later on is if he becomes a force in the middle like one of Jacksonville's Dt’s. I'm hoping he does.

[The Leaper]

With our smaller LBs, having as many sturdy DTs is a must. Neither Jolly or Williams is still a "sure-thing" as a consistent starter to this point, so I see no reason to label the Harrell pick a mistake yet.

[Scott Campbell]

If they had only known how much they already had developmentally at DT,...........

If TT and staff had known that Jolly was going to step up like this and provide that depth,........... Your thoughts?


I'm not ready to assume that the staff didn't already know.

[Scott Campbell]

If Jolly turns out to be a great run stopper with decent pass rushing skills than the Harrell pick was a waste because that’s exactly what Harrell will give us.


It appears to me that there is a different strategy in play here. Having clones on the DL does is not a sign of "wasted picks" - if this staff's strategy is to rotate fresh DL's in.

The only plausible reason for drafting Harrell when we appeared less despearate at DT than at RB, S or WR is that this staff puts a tremendous premium on rotating fresh bodies into the lineup at that position.

That, and we assume he was Ted's BPA.

[HarveyWallbangers]

People wanted the Packers take a safety. If Underwood suddenly made a big jump this offseason and looked like he could be a solid starter, would that have meant drafting a safety was a waste? Hell, Underwood showed as much or more than Jolly did last year.

[PaCkFan_n_MD]

If Jolly turns out to be a great run stopper with decent pass rushing skills than the Harrell pick was a waste because that’s exactly what Harrell will give us.


It appears to me that there is a different strategy in play here. Having clones on the DL does is not a sign of "wasted picks" - if this staff's strategy is to rotate fresh DL's in.

The only plausible reason for drafting Harrell when we appeared less despearate at DT than at RB, S or WR is that this staff puts a tremendous premium on rotating fresh bodies into the lineup at that position.

That, and we assume he was Ted's BPA.

I understand your point on rotating and keeping people fresh. But to spend a first round pick on a position of strength, the player must be exceptional and I really hope he is.

[Fritz]

I'm guessing that perhaps TT will let the season play out, and if the current top five play well and Harrell and Jolly develop, then TT will tag Williams with a second round tender, perhaps hoping someone will bite.

[PaCkFan_n_MD]

People wanted the Packers take a safety. If Underwood suddenly made a big jump this offseason and looked like he could be a solid starter, would that have meant drafting a safety was a waste? Hell, Underwood showed as much or more than Jolly did last year.

The pick is only wasted if Harrell is not exceptionally better than every player we have at DT. If we picked a safety in the first and he couldn't beat out Underwood or Manuel or didn't turn out to be a lot better in the long run than the pervious starter then that is a wasted pick, but if he is a big upgrade the pick is not wasted. I expect every first round pick we make to be great player, that’s why I’m questioning this pick because I don’t know how much better Harrell will be than Pickett, Williams, etc. I really hope Harrell turns out though.

[AV David]

"I'm guessing that perhaps TT will let the season play out, and if the current top five play well and Harrell and Jolly develop, then TT will tag Williams with a second round tender, perhaps hoping someone will bite."


Williams will be an unrestricted FA after this season. The tenders only apply to 3rd year players who are restricted free agents.

[Guiness]

This certainly does make it interesting. Even if Williams is the low man on the totem pole, he's still certainly very serviceable. You have to think we can get something for one of these guys - DT is a horribly difficult position to fill, and even having four good players there is a lot more than most teams can say.

[rpiotr01]

People wanted the Packers take a safety. If Underwood suddenly made a big jump this offseason and looked like he could be a solid starter, would that have meant drafting a safety was a waste? Hell, Underwood showed as much or more than Jolly did last year.

The pick is only wasted if Harrell is not exceptionally better than every player we have at DT. If we picked a safety in the first and he couldn't beat out Underwood or Manuel or didn't turn out to be a lot better in the long run than the pervious starter then that is a wasted pick, but if he is a big upgrade the pick is not wasted. I expect every first round pick we make to be great player, that’s why I’m questioning this pick because I don’t know how much better Harrell will be than Pickett, Williams, etc. I really hope Harrell turns out though.

I agree generally, but two things:

If you expect every first round pick the team makes to be a great player you're setting yourself up for disappointment. Odds of players being great outside the top 5 or so diminish very quickly as you go down the first round. The best you can reasonably hope for is that they turn out to be good players. For example, I wouldn't call Barnett a great player, but he's about as good as it gets considering where he was drafted.

Other thing is, I don't think it's out of line to expect Harrell to be better than all of our other DTs... I just think it's way out of line to expect him to be better THIS YEAR. That isn't going to happen. I like him a lot and I can see him being a monster in the middle, but rookie DTs don't pop in and become monsters in their first season. I believe Harrell will get there, and that 2-3 years from now, who knows, maybe Harrell-Jolly will be GB's version of the Williams boys or Harris-Johnson. That seems to be the plan, anyway.

[Carolina_Packer]

I just heard John Clayton talking about being in Rams camp and being very impressed with how Adam Carriker was dominating. Obviously, tossing guys around in practice is one thing and doing it in game situations is different. I guess they are moving Carriker to interior lineman from what I understood and he's a beast, tossing guys around, etc. Sure would be nice to see those flashes from Harrell, but given his injury and the relative recovery time, and rust he needs to shake off to get in football shape, I agree that it might be a bit much to expect lots of production this year. He'd be clearing my bar if he was a valuable man in the DL rotation, where there wasn't a lot of drop-off when he went into the game, and he could blow up plays and get a push on the O-line, but holding the point of attack would be cool too, letting our undersized LB's clean it up.

[RashanGary]

Pickett has three more years in GB. Jolly will take one more year to fully develop. Harrell will take two years to fully develop. Williams is fully developed. Williams and Harrell can both play power end on run downs.

I say keep them all and have one of the deepest, most powerfull Dlines in the NFL. Eventually let Pickett walk, but get milage out of his legs as long as we're paying him.

[RashanGary]

Goalline

Jenkins / Jolly / Pickett / Williams



Obvious passing downs

KGB / Jenkins / Williams / Kampman



Base

Jenkins / (Jolly, Williams) / Pickett / Kampman



There are many other situations like 3rd and short or 2nd and short that you can mix and match personal. There is no reason to let any of them go IMO. I say just run the deepest and one of the strongest Dlines in football for the next couple years. We might see our defense establish itself as top 5 this year.

[Partial]

That said, Wells really didn't have much trouble walking Harrell back two yds into the end zone on Jackson's TD run.

Harrell has looked very pedestrian... I'm not worried about him though, coming back from the bicep injury is going to take time. I had hoped that Harrell could be in the starting lineup on run downs, but at this point he's not even close to ready.

I watched a different scrimmage. I didn't see who was in there on Jackson's two runs from the one. He was stuffed on one, and scored on the other. However, I watched Harrell on a few plays in the scrimmage. On two runs up the middle, the RB was stuffed for a 1-2 yard gains. On another, he walked Barbre into the backfield and knocked down a Rodgers pass. I don't think he looked as poor as it's been reported. At the worst, I think he can be a good run defender early.

I think the biggest thing is he is probably getting winded really easily, still. It's only been a week. I think the story will be very different 4 weeks from now.

[Partial]

Pickett has three more years in GB. Jolly will take one more year to fully develop. Harrell will take two years to fully develop. Williams is fully developed. Williams and Harrell can both play power end on run downs.

I say keep them all and have one of the deepest, most powerfull Dlines in the NFL. Eventually let Pickett walk, but get milage out of his legs as long as we're paying him.

If Jolly is starting and playing that well, no way do they keep Corey Williams. My guess is they try to work out a sign and trade.

[rbaloha1]

If Jolly is the real deal, trade Corey Williams for a minimum second round pick or an offensive playmaker

Corey is scheduled for free agency next season. Coupled by a good 2006 season and sixth round status it is prudent to get as much as possible.

A compensatory pick is inadequate. Furthermore a great year is too much for the salary cap vis a' vis: Kampman, Jenkins, Pickett, Harrel, KGB.

[MJZiggy]

I can understand the idea the Jolly's having a nice camp and all, but aren't we jumping the gun just a bit wanting to trade away Williams on Jolly's potential? I'd like to see how he handles games and such first...

[Partial]

If Jolly is the real deal, trade Corey Williams for a minimum second round pick or an offensive playmaker

Corey is scheduled for free agency next season. Coupled by a good 2006 season and sixth round status it is prudent to get as much as possible.

A compensatory pick is inadequate. Furthermore a great year is too much for the salary cap vis a' vis: Kampman, Jenkins, Pickett, Harrel, KGB.

You get a 5th rounder for him at best. He's not established, yet.

[Partial]

My advice to Colts architect Bill Polian: Scout the Green Bay Packers on Saturday at Pittsburgh. Look hard at No. 97 for the Pack, Johnny Jolly. He's a 6-foot-3, 317-pound hulk with movement, who, when I saw him last Friday, was every bit the specimen of first-round pick Justin Harrell. And the Packers might not have a spot for him in their DT rotation. Jolly was a sixth-round pick in 2006, and my guess is the Packers would take a low fourth-rounder for him. That's the kind of fix the Colts need to make now, and the kind Polian is so good at. He's often made chicken salad out of chicken feathers, and Indianapolis needs his Midas touch this month as much as ever.



NO NO NO NO NO WAY!!! Send them Corey Williams for a 3rd if that is the case. He'll get a long term deal and we'll solve our problem of having too much depth.

[Scott Campbell]

I think we should sit pat unless some team is desperate enough to overpay.

[BallHawk]

NO NO NO NO NO WAY!!! Send them Corey Williams for a 3rd if that is the case. He'll get a long term deal and we'll solve our problem of having too much depth.

When did having having depth become a problem? :?:

[Partial]

NO NO NO NO NO WAY!!! Send them Corey Williams for a 3rd if that is the case. He'll get a long term deal and we'll solve our problem of having too much depth.

When did having having depth become a problem? :?:

It's a good problem to have, but I see no reason to give up Jolley who we will have for at least 2 more years and the ability to lock him up for cheaper than Williams who we will likely lose after this season anyway.

[Brohm]

If Peter King thinks Jolly is every bit the specimen that Harrell is, maybe they should give us a 1st for him :roll:

[rpiotr01]

If they want Jolly they have to give us Reggie Wayne or Dallas Clark :wink: Nuts to the draft picks!

[PaCkFan_n_MD]

I think we should sit pat unless some team is desperate enough to overpay.

I agree. And then next year we should re-sign Williams and either trade/cut KGB. In essence your giving KGB's money to Williams. However if some team is willing to give a 2nd or higher for Williams I would take that.

[Partial]

I think we should sit pat unless some team is desperate enough to overpay.

I agree. And then next year we should re-sign Williams and either trade/cut KGB. In essence your giving KGB's money to Williams. However if some team is willing to give a 2nd or higher for Williams I would take that.

The logic is flawed because you still need to pay a defensive end.

[PaCkFan_n_MD]

I think we should sit pat unless some team is desperate enough to overpay.

I agree. And then next year we should re-sign Williams and either trade/cut KGB. In essence your giving KGB's money to Williams. However if some team is willing to give a 2nd or higher for Williams I would take that.

The logic is flawed because you still need to pay a defensive end.

Not really, KGB is going to make 7.7 million next year. Not sure how much the cap hit would be but I would imagine that Williams will be making less than KBG's inflated contract. As for replacing KGB, how much is Jason Hunter or some low draft pick going to cost. Remember KGB doesn't start anymore.

[RashanGary]

Cole isn't very good. I see no problem with paying and keeping Williams.

Pickett
Williams
Harrell
Jolly

Williams and Harrell can both play DE in the redzone and obvious run downs. They are versatile players. I think we can utilize all of them without considering it a wasted spot. Having an extremely deep and strong DL is not as bad as you guys make it out to be. I think we forget how much impact those positions really have.

[The Leaper]

I'm not sure about Williams at DE...I think Jolly may be the better pass rusher and better suited to the outside. To this point, he's shown a variety of moves and good technique one-on-one in camp.

I'd at least throw him out there in preseason and see what happens. We need someone solid who can spell Kampman from time to time. Jolly may be a great candidate...Kampman can wear out OTs, and Jolly seems to have the strength to take advantage of that.

Regardless, I love the fact we can throw the kitchen sink at OLs this year and earn an advantage late in the game.

[RashanGary]

Regardless, I love the fact we can throw the kitchen sink at OLs this year and earn an advantage late in the game.

I'm very excited to see our fourth quarter defense. The Oline on their team might acctually be more run down than the dline on our team. It should be fun.

[LEWCWA]

I hear everyone talk about Ted picking bpa according to his board. I find it hard to believe Quinn wasn't high on their board. I think he just passed him over.