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packers11
08-08-2007, 12:02 AM
Packers keeping the faith with Manuel

Safety was seen as weak link in 2006
By BOB McGINN
bmcginn@journalsentinel.com
Posted: Aug. 7, 2007

Green Bay - Two years after general manager Ted Thompson and the Green Bay Packers hurt their defense by sticking with Mark Roman at strong safety a year too long, they now appear ready to ride the rapids with another year of Marquand Manuel at the position.

It's halfway through the second week of training camp, none of the young safeties has mounted a serious challenge and Manuel looks entrenched as the No. 1 strong safety, the position that he played so poorly a year ago.

Bob Sanders, who coached defensive ends in 2005 before becoming coordinator in '06, said Tuesday that he was more than satisfied having Manuel in the lineup.

"I feel very, very confident in his ability to help this football team," secondary coach Kurt Schottenheimer said.

One of the reasons why Schottenheimer lost his first job in Green Bay shortly after the '04 season was Roman's horrible performance. Thompson, who took over in January 2005, eventually signed off on the decision by Mike Sherman and Jim Bates to start Roman for another season.

If Roman was an "F" player in 2004, he might have merited a "D-minus" in '05.

The parallels between Roman's and Manuel's first seasons in Green Bay are eerie. In 2004, Roman allowed 9½ plays of 20 yards or more and 4½ touchdown passes, missed 18 tackles and didn't record a turnover. In '06, Manuel allowed five plays of 20 or more and 5½ TD passes, missed 15 tackles and had one turnover play, numbers befitting of a "D-minus" grade.

Roman, who was drafted as a cornerback, had a faster 40-yard dash time than Manuel, a more rugged player against the run. Coincidentally, Manuel played behind Roman in 2003 for the Cincinnati Bengals.

The Packers dumped the final year of Roman's three-year, $2.75 million contract on the eve of training camp in 2006, almost five months after giving Manuel a five-year, $10 million deal. Roman caught on with San Francisco and now is starting at free safety.

Sanders, who was coaching defensive ends during Roman's last season in Green Bay, is convinced Manuel will perform well.

"Well, he started every game for us last year," Sanders said. "He can do what we ask him to do."

The Packers apparently figure that Manuel couldn't possibly perform any worse. At the same time, they say Manuel wasn't right physically in the early stages of '06 because of a groin injury suffered in Super Bowl XL and a calf injury that caused him to miss the first 19 practices of camp and one exhibition game.

"He's moving better," Sanders said. "He's explodin' better on the ball, explodin' better on his breaks. And he picked up right where he left off as far as his knowledge of the defense. His communication is extremely good."

Schottenheimer referred to Manuel as "a different player athletically than he was last year." He added: "He was a victim of circumstances early in the year. He played extremely well down the stretch."

Since the start of camp, it has been Manuel alongside Nick Collins with the No. 1 defense. Behind them, Marviel Underwood and Atari Bigby have been paired second, usually followed by rookie Aaron Rouse and Tyrone Culver, then Charlie Peprah and Alvin Nnabuife.

Manuel's modest speed was exposed blatantly Monday when wide receiver Calvin Russell blew away from him on a go route during one-on-one drills. On Thursday, Manuel bit on a read route by Ruvell Martin, sucked up on a play-fake and allowed a 38-yard touchdown over his head.

Every player, of course, has some bad plays, and Sanders indicated that Manuel's total had not been excessive.

Underwood, 11 months removed from reconstructive knee surgery, has shown no fear of re-injury in his play but doesn't always change direction as well as he did in the past and might again a year from now, according to Schottenheimer.

For his part, Underwood said he respected Manuel's level of experience and tried to learn from him.

Bigby, said Schottenheimer, has the best range of the six backups and can be physical at the line. But both Bigby and Rouse need to show more in coverage.

Rouse, a third-round draft choice, has had his moments as a physical presence in the box, making plays on the ball and as a pass rusher. Sanders doesn't think Rouse (6 feet 4 inches, 223 pounds) is too big to break down in space, either.

"(Rouse) takes notes and is a student of the game," Sanders said. "Very few busts."

Culver, the No. 3 safety a year ago after Underwood's surgery, has had little impact this summer. He and Peprah, a onetime cornerback at Alabama, rely on instincts to compensate for average size, speed and striking ability.

"The (backups) have all done fine but they're so closely wrapped together, it changes daily," Schottenheimer said. "We've got to see where the young guys are but also get your starters ready.

"We know we're going to keep four, obviously. If there's a special-teams issue Mike (McCarthy) may consider five. There are some difficult decisions to be made."

But barring the unforeseen, the decision to stick with Manuel has been made.

packers11
08-08-2007, 12:04 AM
O god... This is just like waiting for Carroll to have his "break out" season :roll: ...

I'm pulling for the guy to do good but I just don't see it, I think its going to take a terrible performance ala Carroll in Philly for any change to happen...

CaliforniaCheez
08-08-2007, 12:16 AM
Packers keeping the faith with Manuel just like the Mafia until he gets invited to go for a drive.

Unless you see good play from a guy don't believe anything.

HarveyWallbangers
08-08-2007, 01:16 AM
I hate to say it, because I don't want him starting, but I thought he looked noticeably faster in the scrimmmage. Still, I want Rouse or Underwood to beat him out.

RashanGary
08-08-2007, 06:22 AM
Starting Collins with a rookie would be a disaster. If Manuel really struggled physically becuase of the injury and mentally becuase of the new defense then things should be better. It'll be interesting to see how it pans out,.

Cheesehead Craig
08-08-2007, 07:21 AM
:doh:

KYPack
08-08-2007, 08:01 AM
I've always like Culver.

He was really coming on last year.

He got few reps in the scrimmage, that's always a bad omen.

That position is funny. Nobody is breaking out of the pack. Manuel looked a little quicker in the scrimmage, but I don't know if he had a great deal more speed. it might be, bad groin pulls can take a couple years to heal.

SkinBasket
08-08-2007, 08:50 AM
"I feel very, very confident in his ability to help this football team," secondary coach Kurt Schottenheimer said.

Well there's a ringing endorsement. From one POS to another.

PaCkFan_n_MD
08-08-2007, 09:03 AM
I still want one of the young guy to win the job. I don’t believe Manuel will be anything more than average.

Carolina_Packer
08-08-2007, 09:19 AM
We may have to dance with the one who brought us on this one. If another option was more attractive at strong safety (someone already in camp, mind you) I think we'd be hearing about it. That's not exactly a ringing endorsement for Manuel, and speaks possibly to the relative lack of competition at the position.

It's like the great line from Charlie Steiner about the NL West a couple of year's ago when they almost had a losing team win the division..."Whoever walks backward the slowest will win the division."

gbpackfan
08-08-2007, 10:27 AM
The Packers haven't played a single preseason game yet. Nothing is set in stone at SS. Let's see these young guys play before we declare them starters or reserves.

Merlin
08-08-2007, 10:35 AM
I agree with many people who think that hyping up Manual because he is beating out first and second year players doesn't make him a good player. Anything Shittenheiney has to say can be ignored. The guy has never been a successful coach at any point in his coaching career at any level. Why he is still around is beyond me. Anything 3T has to say about Manual is to be promptly ignored as well. He had such a hard on for Manual out of the gate that you would have thought the guy was the second coming. Problem is, he was a backup who hadn't proven anything on a Super Bowl team. He got to play for a few games by default. It's one thing to start 16 games and 3 post season games. It's entirely another story when you start a handful of big games for your team. If I could play in one NFL game, I would probably look pretty good. I can promise you though I wouldn't last until the second.

Scott Campbell
08-08-2007, 11:06 AM
If I could play in one NFL game, I would probably look pretty good.


Earth to Merlin, Earth to Merlin, come in Merlin.


Please don't tell me you were a shut down corner in high school.

MJZiggy
08-08-2007, 11:07 AM
I gotta know. Where does the third T come from in 3T?

Merlin
08-08-2007, 11:21 AM
If I could play in one NFL game, I would probably look pretty good.


Earth to Merlin, Earth to Merlin, come in Merlin.


Please don't tell me you were a shut down corner in high school.

I didn't specify position although I did play DB in high school, we all know that isn't saying much in Wisconsin. I also played RB but in our offense that didn't mean "running back", it was more like a backfield TE/Split End because we never ran the ball. We passed every down.

The point is, if I (or you) had one shot to proved yourself in one game, wouldn't you make the most of it and play the best you could? Wouldn't you be able to because you have fresh legs and aren't injured. I mean really think about it. A lot of players in the NFL can have that one game that really makes them stand out. That is what we have in Manual. One or two good games in Seattle and a bunch of crappy games since.

Merlin
08-08-2007, 11:21 AM
I gotta know. Where does the third T come from in 3T?

Ted Tightwad (can change to something else in a pinch) Thompson

The Leaper
08-08-2007, 11:33 AM
Schott is a joke...and I consider him to be one of the biggest reasons why our young DBs show minimal improvement. The guy has been a complete failure everywhere he has coached.

More and more, I regret that we passed on taking Reggie Nelson in the draft for Harrell. Safety was a far greater need than DT, and Nelson fit our defensive scheme to a T.

packers11
08-08-2007, 11:36 AM
More and more, I regret that we passed on taking Reggie Nelson in the draft for Harrell. Safety was a far greater need than DT, and Nelson fit our defensive scheme to a T.

I second that... I know it keeps coming up and the draft is over, but man was Nelson a no brainier pick in my opinion...

BallHawk
08-08-2007, 01:20 PM
Manuel looks faster, but if he ends up getting burned every play, who cares? He needs to step up in coverage.

lonely t-set
08-08-2007, 01:51 PM
did he have any injury history last year?

Scott Campbell
08-08-2007, 02:02 PM
did he have any injury history last year?


Yeah, he spent most of the year in the burn unit.

cheesner
08-08-2007, 02:50 PM
The thing with Manuel is he is actually a good player. On most plays. The problem is that he seems to have a few lapses in sense/ judgement/ attention/ whatever and gives up a couple of very big plays. Although he may be doing well now, I would be hesitant to say that his problems are behind him until he strings along 5-6 good games.

I am hoping he has turned a corner, but I am hoping a young player picks things up and becomes something serviceable. Although in the SB year Manuel only started late in the year, he played very well and didn't have the huge lapses he had last year. I think it is likely he will get back - but for now, opposing OCs are probably going to be challenging him several times a game.

The Leaper
08-08-2007, 03:28 PM
Our biggest problem in the secondary is Schotty, not Manual...although I'm certainly not going to deny the fact we could use a major upgrade at Manual's position.