Packers $13.3 million beneath salary cap

[PaCkFan_n_MD]

Right on the money

Packers $13.3 million beneath salary cap

By BOB McGINN
bmcginn@journalsentinel.com

Posted: Aug. 8, 2007

Green Bay - If the Green Bay Packers ever want to toss the dice and go after an expensive player, this year and next look like as good a chance as any to do it.

Brimming with salary-cap room and with nowhere they have to spend it, the Packers can play out 2007 and head into free agency next winter in prime shape.

"Quite frankly, every team goes at it differently," general manager Ted Thompson said Wednesday. "If you think you've got a shot to do something, maybe you become like the Yankees and say, 'OK, fine. We'll go for it.' I'm not knocking the Yankees, but they can throw some money at it and fix it."

Thompson's steady-as-she-goes stint astride the Packers' football helm suggests Yankee-like aggressiveness isn't forthcoming. Should he change course, however, the money is there for him to make waves.

Presently, the Packers stand $13.3 million beneath their adjusted salary cap of $109.653 million, giving them the ninth-most room in the National Football League. Of their 90 players under contract, 71 have deals beyond this season.

Of those 19 players with expiring contracts, there's not one that the Packers must break the bank to retain.

"We're always involved in something," said Thompson. "But I wouldn't categorize anything as pressing."

Among the six unrestricted free agents, tight end Donald Lee is the only starter and defensive tackle Corey Williams perhaps is the most valuable.

Running back Vernand Morency heads the six-man class of upcoming restricted free agents, but he would have a lot to prove before the Packers would deem it expedient to throw money at him.

Thompson has based his rebuilding effort around the draft, not free agency or the trade market. Draft choices are younger and work cheaper than veterans, which is one reason the Packers have such vigorous financial health.

At the same time, Thompson decided against what he considered overspending to retain such players as Mike Wahle, Marco Rivera and Darren Sharper in 2005, Ryan Longwell and Mike Flanagan in '06, and Ahman Green and David Martin in '07.

It's also possible that Javon Walker might have stayed in Green Bay if Thompson quietly would have satisfied his monetary requests before runaway emotions on both sides led to his trade in April 2006.

Since taking over in January 2005, Thompson has made his most significant cash outlays by extending the contracts of such players as Bubba Franks, Aaron Kampman, Donald Driver, Scott Wells, Al Harris, Nick Barnett and Cullen Jenkins. Of the group, only the Franks signing can be questioned.

"We want to make sure we're in a position where we can make decisions based on football merit as opposed to dollar signs," Thompson said. "We don't want to be in that type of position ever. So we try to make good decisions, sign our own players and go forward.

"If we need to do something or have an opportunity to do something we're in a position where we can do that and not stretch ourselves too thin. Simple as that. Same way someone would with a budget anywhere."

Even 18 months from now, the Packers should have few concerns. The only players of substance due to become unrestricted free agents in March 2009 are Mark Tauscher and Brady Poppinga. Tauscher will have played 10 seasons by then and might be nearing the end, and Poppinga has yet to prove he's a long-term starter.

"We work hard to try to provide flexibility for the present while protecting the future," said Andrew Brandt, who negotiates almost every contract as vice president of player finance.

The Packers also have gone well past the point where the retirement of Brett Favre would damage their cap. If Favre retires after this season, with three years left on his contract, his $12 million base salary for 2008 would become void. The only cap remaining charges would be $600,000 in '08 and $300,000 in '09.

As it stands now, the Packers rank about 23rd in so-called "dead money" at $3.2 million (3.3% of their cap), well down from about $7.2 million 12 months ago.

Only six departed players are counting more than $100,000 against Green Bay's cap, including Ahmad Carroll ($1.861 million), Cory Rodgers ($348,840), Kevin Barry ($306,720), Donnell Washington ($177,500), Mark Roman ($175,000) and B.J. Sander ($145,907).

Contrast that with the Houston Texans, who have nine of their ex-players counting more than $1 million. The Texans lead the NFL with $32 million.

"'Dead money' is just part of doing business," Thompson said. "I don't know we did better or were smarter. Maybe we were luckier. This is a game of people."

Using a "pay as you go" philosophy, the Packers have used favorable cap situations in recent years to front-load contracts of their veterans. Most NFL deals provide more money to players the longer they play, but in many cases the Packers structured contracts to use up immediate cap space and lessen the load later.

A total of 18 players presently counting $1 million or more against Green Bay's cap have contracts for next year. Thirteen of those 18 players have cap-salary increases for '08 that total $8.81 million whereas the other five show decreases next year totaling $4.61 million.

Unlike some teams, the Packers haven't had to cut useful players because the later years of their contracts became prohibitive. With the salary cap expected to rise another $8 million or so next year, the Packers will have more than enough room to maneuver.

"As best we can, we're comfortable trying to stay a little bit ahead of the game," said Thompson. "I do think teams are better now at managing this end of the football process."

[PaCkFan_n_MD]

Expiration dates

Posted: Aug. 8, 2007

The Packers have 90 players under contract. Pending developments, the contracts of these players will expire after the season and they'll become free agents in March:

UNRESTRICTED FREE AGENTS (6)

Player Pos Age '07 Cap Salary
Rob Davis LS 38 $481,240
*Donald Lee TE 26 701,240
Frank Walker CB 26 1,186,240
Tyson Walter C 29 701,240
Tracy White LB 26 481,240
Corey Williams DT 26 875,920

RESTRICTED FREE AGENTS (6)


Colin Cole DT 27 440,160
Patrick Dendy CB 25 441,240
Noah Herron RB 25 441,240
*Brandon Miree FB 26 366,240
Vernand Morency RB 27 440,520
Dave Rayner K 24 441,240

EXCLUSIVE RIGHTS FREE AGENTS (7)

TE Zac Alcorn, S Atari Bigby, WR Chris Francies, WR Carlyle Holiday, TE Tory Humphey, WR Ruvell Martin, RB P.J. Pope.

Note: *Starter

[The Leaper]

It is comforting to know we have $32M in cap space to spend next year if Favre retires...but still no strong talent at RB or TE.

[wist43]

Fewer and fewer big names are going to be available... this years crop of FA's was very thin - at least at the top. I don't see that changing any time soon.

Teams have learned how to manage their caps much better than even 3-4 years ago... that, coupled with the increased cap from the CBA, means TT probably won't have many opportunities to throw the $$$ around, even if he were inclined - which of course he isn't.

I haven't looked to see who would even be available, but given the realities mentioned above, I don't think we can expect TT to do much in the '08 offseason - actually, I'd be shocked if he did anything at all.

[The Leaper]

Fewer and fewer big names are going to be available... this years crop of FA's was very thin - at least at the top. I don't see that changing any time soon.

It may not change next year, but things will start tightening up again by 2009...enough that a few good players may become available for those willing to overspend.

I'm really at a loss. I understand being frugal...but Thompson has clearly passed up opportunities that could improve this team. This team is starting to gain the depth necessary to make a playoff push...but we lack capable veteran talent on offense that Elway had in his twilight in Denver.

The Javon Walker situation really is going to come back and bite TT in the ass. With Javon Walker, I think this Packer team could easily be a contender for the NFC crown in 2007.

[woodbuck27]

It is comforting to know we have $32M in cap space to spend next year if Favre retires...but still no strong talent at RB or TE.

If Favre retires after this season we may not be strong at QB,RB,FB or TE.

TT has taken three seasons to re-build the 'D' into something resembling decent.

With Favre out and Rodgers in (and hypothetically performing as well as Favre) did last season and it takes TT two more seasons to re-tool the 'O' then the question that begs to be answered:

Are we a playoff bound team by 2010? A team that can go deep in the playoffs and possibly get to a Super Bowl?

Three years from now will players such as CB's Al Harris and Charles Woodson, tackles Clifton and Tauscher and DT Pickett be able to get us to the playoffs or be out or on their way out?

I believe that TT has to do more than just draft very well to get our team at the level we deserve as Packer fans.

[GBRulz]

13.3 mil below the cap and we have no RB. I still think that TT thought he was going to get Lynch in the draft which is why he let Green go. I see our running game as being the biggest weakness....and it didn't have to be. Even if we didn't keep Green, there were a few other options that TT could have at least gone to.

I know, same shit different day, but I'm liking what I'm hearing about the team so far and we are one player away from being a playoff team - that is 100% TT's fault. If he needs to learn how to spend money, I'd be more than willing to help :lol:

[GBRulz]

The Javon Walker situation really is going to come back and bite TT in the ass. With Javon Walker, I think this Packer team could easily be a contender for the NFC crown in 2007.

I really would love to have been a fly on the wall to know the whole story to this one. I mean Javon said that he would retire before ever putting on a Packer uniform. Something happened there. Something much more than just a contract dispute.

[KYPack]

The Javon Walker situation really is going to come back and bite TT in the ass. With Javon Walker, I think this Packer team could easily be a contender for the NFC crown in 2007.

I really would love to have been a fly on the wall to know the whole story to this one. I mean Javon said that he would retire before ever putting on a Packer uniform. Something happened there. Something much more than just a contract dispute.

Me too, baby.

Some of the guys we have lost, Mckenzie, Walker, were pissed when they left. Neither guy was a brainiac, but they both had the same kind of case of the ass.

Shermie and TT have gotten the blame, but I can't help wondering if there is some other reason these guys get so red over their contract & more importantly, the process of negotiation.

Brandt or some other gnome that just rubs the guys or their agents the wrong way?

[woodbuck27]

The Javon Walker situation really is going to come back and bite TT in the ass. With Javon Walker, I think this Packer team could easily be a contender for the NFC crown in 2007.

I really would love to have been a fly on the wall to know the whole story to this one. I mean Javon said that he would retire before ever putting on a Packer uniform. Something happened there. Something much more than just a contract dispute.

Me too, baby.

Some of the guys we have lost, Mckenzie, Walker, were pissed when they left. Neither guy was a brainiac, but they both had the same kind of case of the ass.

Shermie and TT have gotten the blame, but I can't help wondering if there is some other reason these guys get so red over their contract & more importantly, the process of negotiation.

Brandt or some other gnome that just rubs the guys or their agents the wrong way?

It's time to look at this because nobody seems too interested in coming to Green Bay of late.

Ted Thompson even expressed that he could't understand why certain players turn away from us.

[Bretsky]

Fewer and fewer big names are going to be available... this years crop of FA's was very thin - at least at the top. I don't see that changing any time soon.

It may not change next year, but things will start tightening up again by 2009...enough that a few good players may become available for those willing to overspend.

I'm really at a loss. I understand being frugal...but Thompson has clearly passed up opportunities that could improve this team. This team is starting to gain the depth necessary to make a playoff push...but we lack capable veteran talent on offense that Elway had in his twilight in Denver.

The Javon Walker situation really is going to come back and bite TT in the ass. With Javon Walker, I think this Packer team could easily be a contender for the NFC crown in 2007.

:bclap: :bclap: :bclap: :bclap: :bclap: :alc: :bclap: :bclap: :bclap: :bclap: :bclap:

[Bretsky]

Same shit different day

We are going to have loads of cap space in 2008; we had loads of cap space in 2007. Flexibility will allow us to spend the loot next year....yadayadayada
Heard it before.

[Brainerd]

The Javon Walker situation really is going to come back and bite TT in the ass. With Javon Walker, I think this Packer team could easily be a contender for the NFC crown in 2007.

I really would love to have been a fly on the wall to know the whole story to this one. I mean Javon said that he would retire before ever putting on a Packer uniform. Something happened there. Something much more than just a contract dispute.

Me too, baby.

Some of the guys we have lost, Mckenzie, Walker, were pissed when they left. Neither guy was a brainiac, but they both had the same kind of case of the ass.

Shermie and TT have gotten the blame, but I can't help wondering if there is some other reason these guys get so red over their contract & more importantly, the process of negotiation.

Brandt or some other gnome that just rubs the guys or their agents the wrong way?

I guess its time to just blame John Jones for everything considering he seemed to rub everyone the wrong way. Its all just speculation but the Jones incident is one of the weirder things to come out of Green Bay in years.

[GBRulz]

It's time to look at this because nobody seems too interested in coming to Green Bay of late.

Ted Thompson even expressed that he could't understand why certain players turn away from us.

Two words, Woody. Brett Favre.

In the past, FA's wanted to come here for a chance to play with Brett. Now, he is nearing retirement, plus we haven't been a playoff team for a few years now. Couple those things together and that is a big reason why we probably will have to overspend in order for FA's to want to come here.

We have been a winning team up until TT took over. Yes, I know the mess Sherm left him and I'm not dogging TT on this. But it's important that we get back on the winning track QUICKLY. GB will once again look attractive to FA's if we're a team on the upswing. This year is going to say ALOT about TT & Co. If we are a team that is one or two FA's away from being a legimate contender, we'll have the upper hand in many cases to land that FA. I really think that is why Vinatieri didn't ink with us...just MO

[The Leaper]

Two words, Woody. Brett Favre.

To be honest...I disagree with that.

I think Brett Favre is one of the few reasons guys might actually come to Green Bay. The players realize he hasn't lost it, even if the talking heads prefer to use wheelchair and nursing home illustrations when discussing Favre.

I think the biggest factor is the city of Green Bay, which doesn't offer the glitz and glamour of many other NFL cities. For a limited few, that small town feel and nostalgia will be a draw. For most, the bright lights and warmer climates elsewhere will be hard to beat if the money and opportunity are equal.

Unless Green Bay is a WINNING team that is a contender to win the conference (which it currently is NOT in the eyes of most) it will almost always be at a considerable disadvantage when it comes to wooing free agents.

[PaCkFan_n_MD]

Here are the best free agents of next year at each position. However, with tags and the increase in the cap I doubt any will make it to the market.

QB:

Rex Grossman, UFA, Chicago Bears ( I really want this guy :roll: )
Tony Romo, UFA, Dallas Cowboys
Kyle Boller, UFA, Baltimore Ravens
Josh McCown, UFA, Oakland Raiders

RB:

Michael Turner, UFA, San Diego Chargers
Jamal Lewis, UFA, Cleveland Browns
Fred Taylor, UFA, Jacksonville Jaguars
Vernand Morency, RFA, Green Bay Packers
Chris Brown UFA Tennessee Titans
T.J. Duckett UFA Detroit Lions
Mewelde Moore UFA Minnesota Vikings
Musa Smith UFA Baltimore Ravens
Justin Fargas UFA Oakland Raiders

FB:

Mike Alstott UFA Tampa Bay Buccaneers
Brad Hoover UFA Carolina Panthers
Tony Richardson UFA Minnesota Vikings
Derrick Wimbush RFA Jacksonville Jaguars

WR:

Bernard Berrian, UFA, Chicago Bears
Patrick Crayton, UFA, Dallas Cowboys
Bryant Johnson, UFA, Arizona Cardinals
Doug Gabriel UFA Oakland Raiders
Justin Gage UFA Tennessee Titans
D.J. Hackett UFA Seattle Seahawks
Marcus Robinson UFA Detroit Lions
Brandon Stokley UFA Denver Broncos

TE:

Chris Cooley, TE, UFA, Washington Redskins (would love him)
L.J. Smith, TE, UFA, Philadelphia Eagles
Ben Troupe UFA Tennessee Titans
Eric Johnson UFA New Orleans Saints
Stephen Alexander UFA Denver Broncos
Jermaine Wiggins UFA Jacksonville Jaguars
Marcus Pollard UFA Seattle Seahawks

OL:

Alan Faneca, UFA, Pittsburgh Steelers
Ryan Lilja, UFA, Indianapolis Colts
Ruben Brown, UFA, Chicago Bears
Max Starks, UFA, Pittsburgh Steelers
Floyd Womack, UFA, Seattle Seahawks
OG P.J. Alexander UFA Atlanta Falcons
OG Rick DeMulling UFA Indianapolis Colts

DL:

Jared Allen, UFA, Kansas City Chiefs
Simeon Rice, UFA, Tampa Bay Buccaneers
Justin Smith, UFA, Cincinnati Bengals
Terrell Suggs, UFA, Baltimore Ravens
Jordan Carstens UFA Carolina Panthers
Ebenezer Ekuban UFA Denver Broncos
Tommy Kelly UFA Oakland Raiders
Sam Rayburn UFA San Francisco 49ers
Mike Rucker UFA Carolina Panthers
Paul Spicer UFA Jacksonville Jaguars
Randy Starks UFA Tennessee Titans
Renaldo Wynn UFA Washington Redskins

LB:

Tedy Bruschi, UFA, New England Patriots
Karlos Dansby, UFA, Arizona Cardinals
Demorrio Williams, UFA, Atlanta Falcons
Boss Bailey, UFA, Detroit Lions
Jordan Beck RFA Atlanta Falcons
Kevin Bentley UFA Seattle Seahawks
Darryl Blackstock RFA Arizona Cardinals
Brandon Chillar UFA St. Louis Rams
Danny Clark UFA Houston Texans
Na'il Diggs UFA Carolina Panthers
Landon Johnson UFA Cincinnati Bengals
Teddy Lehman UFA Detroit Lions
Lemar Marshall UFA Washington Redskins
Kawika Mitchell UFA New York Giants
Mark Simoneau UFA Philadelphia Eagles
Sam Williams UFA Oakland Raiders

DB:

Mike Doss, UFA, Minnesota Vikings
Domonique Foxworth, RFA, Denver Broncos
Chris Carr RFA Oakland Raiders
Drayton Florence UFA San Diego Chargers
Randall Gay UFA New England Patriots
Tory James UFA New England Patriots
Karl Paymah RFA Denver Broncos
B.J. Sams UFA Baltimore Ravens
Chad Scott UFA New England Patriots
Jordan Babineaux UFA Seattle Seahawks
William Bartee UFA Kansas City Chiefs
Jay Bellamy UFA New Orleans Saints
Omar Stoutmire UFA Washington Redskins
Derrick Strait UFA Carolina Panthers
Gibril Wilson UFA New York Giants

ST:

Rob Bironas RFA Tennessee Titans
Josh Brown UFA Seattle Seahawks
Dave Rayner UFA Green Bay Packers
Lawrence Tynes UFA New York Giants
Jeff Feagles UFA New York Giants
Scott Player UFA Arizona Cardinals
Todd Sauerbrun UFA Denver Broncos

[Merlin]

Two words, Woody. Brett Favre.

To be honest...I disagree with that.

I think Brett Favre is one of the few reasons guys might actually come to Green Bay. The players realize he hasn't lost it, even if the talking heads prefer to use wheelchair and nursing home illustrations when discussing Favre.

I think the biggest factor is the city of Green Bay, which doesn't offer the glitz and glamour of many other NFL cities. For a limited few, that small town feel and nostalgia will be a draw. For most, the bright lights and warmer climates elsewhere will be hard to beat if the money and opportunity are equal.

Unless Green Bay is a WINNING team that is a contender to win the conference (which it currently is NOT in the eyes of most) it will almost always be at a considerable disadvantage when it comes to wooing free agents.

I agree that Favre is the main reason any decent player would want to come here. I disagree that the city of Green Bay has much to do with it. There is a small city called Milwaukee only 60-90 minutes away and with the money these guys make, that isn't a long haul. So much for the glitz and glamor of Green Bay being a big issue. The largest issue is the combination of Favre and winning, which you did touch on.

[Scott Campbell]

I think we have bigger problems in SLC that GB does - and we've managed to field a competitive team. There are always going to be players that don't want to play in GB. And there always will be players who don't want to play in NYC.

[The Leaper]

There is a small city called Milwaukee only 60-90 minutes away and with the money these guys make, that isn't a long haul.

You can sit here and try to prop it up all you want. For a free agent who can have his pick of the lot, places like Houston, Phoenix, San Diego, Miami, Atlanta, Jacksonville, Tampa, Dallas...they ALL are more "hip", have more of a year-round climate to enjoy, and a larger culture of successful young people to hang out with. Other places like New York, Boston, Denver or Philly might not have the climate...but are still major cities with a lot of important people and places to be seen with/at.

Those are big draws for young adults who are about to sign their name on the dotted line for a pile of cash. These aren't guys looking to settle down or raise a family. Most of these guys are looking for a vibrant nightlife and place they can feel comfortable.

With that in mind, Green Bay doesn't fit the profile...especially for a minority who is a millionaire. Wisconsin is mostly white and mostly blue collar. It won't be at the top of their list...and more than likely is near the bottom.

[GBRulz]

Perhaps I worded that incorrectly, Leaper. I am saying that because of Brett Favre, that is why so many FA's have come here in the past. He was a big reason for that. Plus, we were a winning organization for so many years.

As far as attracting FA's to GB. I think the climate is the biggest downfall vs the glitzy nightlife. I see players out all the time at many places around here, in which the locals are really good at just leaving them alone. It's not like they need to escape to a VIP area to get some privacy. but if they do want a nice night out on the town, downtown Milwaukee is 90 minutes away.

[The Leaper]

I think we have bigger problems in SLC that GB does - and we've managed to field a competitive team.

Football is a little different than basketball. Football players spend a lot of time during the season in their home city. They are there every week for at least 4 days within a pretty normal routine from MON-THU. The season is only 6 months long as well.

Basketball teams are constantly travelling...and even if they are back in their home town, it usually isn't long enough to establish any kind of routine.

Bottom line...the chances you are going to run into Carlos Boozer in SLC is much lower than the chance of you running into Cullen Jenkins in Green Bay. NFL players spend more time in their home city, and therefore it is a larger part of the equation.

I'm not saying it is impossible for Green Bay to attract guys. I'm merely pointing out that the small town/rural community isn't going to be a big draw for most...and likely is the biggest obstacle in attracting talent. I would agree the climate probably may be the biggest obstacle though...both kind of go hand in hand. There aren't many "hip" communities in crappy climates these days.

Honestly, it is a good thing...the team's tradition and facilities are top notch, and it helps Green Bay avoid guys like Pac Man Jones.

[Scott Campbell]

I think we have bigger problems in SLC that GB does - and we've managed to field a competitive team.

Football is a little different than basketball. Football players spend a lot of time during the season in their home city. They are there every week for at least 4 days within a pretty normal routine from MON-THU. The season is only 6 months long as well.

Basketball teams are constantly travelling...and even if they are back in their home town, it usually isn't long enough to establish any kind of routine.

Bottom line...the chances you are going to run into Carlos Boozer in SLC is much lower than the chance of you running into Cullen Jenkins in Green Bay. NFL players spend more time in their home city, and therefore it is a larger part of the equation.

I'm not saying it is impossible for Green Bay to attract guys. I'm merely pointing out that the small town/rural community isn't going to be a big draw for most...and likely is the biggest obstacle in attracting talent. I would agree the climate probably may be the biggest obstacle though...both kind of go hand in hand. There aren't many "hip" communities in crappy climates these days.

Honestly, it is a good thing...the team's tradition and facilities are top notch, and it helps Green Bay avoid guys like Pac Man Jones.


Derek Harper was caught on video tape during trade speculation as saying "Utah? I ain't going to Utah. You go to Utah". This happened while Utah was a contender.

Rony Seikely ivoked his trade approval contract clause and voided his trade to the Jazz - while they were a contender with Stockton and Malone. At the time he was playing for the perrenial bottom dwelling Nets.

You can say whatever you like about football vs. basketball, but I don't ever remember Green Bay having anyone void a trade to GB, or get caught on video tape throwing a hissy fit over a possible trade to GB.

SLC a tougher sell for players than you think. That may be tough to understand if you don't live here.

Rick Majerus on the difficulty of recruiting at the University of Utah "I don't want my players hanging out at bars, but I wouldn't mind it if they walked by one once in a while".

[The Leaper]

SLC a tougher sell for players than you think. That may be tough to understand if you don't live here.

Yeah, it probably is. I never said that Green Bay's size/climate made it impossible to attract talent or be successful...just that it was probably the greatest obstacle to overcome in that regard.

NBA players also tend to be much more immature than NFL players...they spend less time in college and typically have more disposal income to get in trouble with. I think the size of their contracts allows them to be more picky...bad NBA players can still make $5M a year easy. In the NFL, money talks louder...because there are far more players to cut the pie for, and contracts aren't all guaranteed money like the NBA. If Green Bay offers significantly more money, it is HIGHLY unlikely an NFL player wouldn't jump at it regardless.

Trade clauses also aren't as prevalent in the NFL, which is why you don't see voids. Nearly every team in the NBA probably has been nixed by someone at some point.

The whole Mormon impact is a major factor too...although I guess it can work in your favor if there is a good Mormon basketball player.

[Scott Campbell]

Nearly every team in the NBA probably has been nixed by someone at some point.


Not while they're a perrenial contender like the Jazz were in the 90's. I don't ever remember a trade getting nixed for any reason other than the destination team was a bottom dweller.

[mission]

As far as attracting FA's to GB. I think the climate is the biggest downfall vs the glitzy nightlife. I see players out all the time at many places around here, in which the locals are really good at just leaving them alone. It's not like they need to escape to a VIP area to get some privacy. but if they do want a nice night out on the town, downtown Milwaukee is 90 minutes away.

Not to single anyone out this isnt the only post that made me laugh but you guys don't really get it. Being from Green Bay and Chippewa Falls and wherever else doesn't qualify anyone to comment on "nightlife"... it's not about having clubs or privacy or whatever...

It's about "how many ridiculously gorgeous black single woman are available?" i dont want privacy... i want 20 chicks fightitng over me at a club. im a kid with $10mil remember? im not Jordan yet...

Sound like an ignorant comment? Well Im from Milwaukee and spent many a night in VIPs on Milwaukee Ave and pounding shots with everybody on Water St... doing the east side thing. That is NOT life. It's being aLive at night.

I live in Atlanta now and there is no place I'd rather be. Im getting text and gmail msgs on my phone all day about this private rooftop party with luda and TI and this condo party in the warehouse district with the hawks cheerleaders, djs, free cases of grey goose and that party and this VIP to respond and come to the game, my boy has luxury box seats tonight etc... there is like a 5-1 single girl to man ratio here and I have never HAD to choose between which of these 6 girls that wants to hang out tonight should I hang out with? and can i pull off two of them? lol

in small towns, people get reputations -- fast. big towns, you can pretty much just blend in and no one knows -- so everyone DOES. driving 90 miles to go to EVE on milwaukee ave is not night life. it's not hanging out with dallas austin and talking bentleys. i dont even consider myself a celebrity, yet i enjoy some perks that i never came close to seeing at all living in the midwest given that i produce *some* music for *some* people who actually are celebrities. imagine if i made 10 mil a year and was on TV every sunday. you forget most of these guys are "kids" ... and we like to have fun and until i have my own kids and my body turns to shit or whatever, then im going to have as much fun as possible while people are still tryin to have it with me. ;)

the last last last place id want to play football (assuming i wasnt a DIEHARD packer fan) would be green bay. if i wasnt from wisconsin, i dunno -- is that in canada? take me to atlanta baby... the women are ridiculous and the parties honestly dont stop til 8 in the morning. sometimes later! :D

[GBRulz]

thanks for that extra special glimpse into your life. :roll:

[Freak Out]

As far as attracting FA's to GB. I think the climate is the biggest downfall vs the glitzy nightlife. I see players out all the time at many places around here, in which the locals are really good at just leaving them alone. It's not like they need to escape to a VIP area to get some privacy. but if they do want a nice night out on the town, downtown Milwaukee is 90 minutes away.

Not to single anyone out this isnt the only post that made me laugh but you guys don't really get it. Being from Green Bay and Chippewa Falls and wherever else doesn't qualify anyone to comment on "nightlife"... it's not about having clubs or privacy or whatever...

It's about "how many ridiculously gorgeous black single woman are available?" i dont want privacy... i want 20 chicks fightitng over me at a club. im a kid with $10mil remember? im not Jordan yet...

Sound like an ignorant comment? Well Im from Milwaukee and spent many a night in VIPs on Milwaukee Ave and pounding shots with everybody on Water St... doing the east side thing. That is NOT life. It's being aLive at night.

I live in Atlanta now and there is no place I'd rather be. Im getting text and gmail msgs on my phone all day about this private rooftop party with luda and TI and this condo party in the warehouse district with the hawks cheerleaders, djs, free cases of grey goose and that party and this VIP to respond and come to the game, my boy has luxury box seats tonight etc... there is like a 5-1 single girl to man ratio here and I have never HAD to choose between which of these 6 girls that wants to hang out tonight should I hang out with? and can i pull off two of them? lol

in small towns, people get reputations -- fast. big towns, you can pretty much just blend in and no one knows -- so everyone DOES. driving 90 miles to go to EVE on milwaukee ave is not night life. it's not hanging out with dallas austin and talking bentleys. i dont even consider myself a celebrity, yet i enjoy some perks that i never came close to seeing at all living in the midwest given that i produce *some* music for *some* people who actually are celebrities. imagine if i made 10 mil a year and was on TV every sunday. you forget most of these guys are "kids" ... and we like to have fun and until i have my own kids and my body turns to shit or whatever, then im going to have as much fun as possible while people are still tryin to have it with me. ;)

the last last last place id want to play football (assuming i wasnt a DIEHARD packer fan) would be green bay. if i wasnt from wisconsin, i dunno -- is that in canada? take me to atlanta baby... the women are ridiculous and the parties honestly dont stop til 8 in the morning. sometimes later! :D

Thats all well and good but there are a limited number of seats at the NFL table for players and they know it. Given the choice between making good $$$ in Green Bay for 7 months or not making the cash but being able to nail slamhounds at will I tend to think they would take the $$$.

[falco]

As far as attracting FA's to GB. I think the climate is the biggest downfall vs the glitzy nightlife. I see players out all the time at many places around here, in which the locals are really good at just leaving them alone. It's not like they need to escape to a VIP area to get some privacy. but if they do want a nice night out on the town, downtown Milwaukee is 90 minutes away.

Not to single anyone out this isnt the only post that made me laugh but you guys don't really get it. Being from Green Bay and Chippewa Falls and wherever else doesn't qualify anyone to comment on "nightlife"... it's not about having clubs or privacy or whatever...

It's about "how many ridiculously gorgeous black single woman are available?" i dont want privacy... i want 20 chicks fightitng over me at a club. im a kid with $10mil remember? im not Jordan yet...

Sound like an ignorant comment? Well Im from Milwaukee and spent many a night in VIPs on Milwaukee Ave and pounding shots with everybody on Water St... doing the east side thing. That is NOT life. It's being aLive at night.

I live in Atlanta now and there is no place I'd rather be. Im getting text and gmail msgs on my phone all day about this private rooftop party with luda and TI and this condo party in the warehouse district with the hawks cheerleaders, djs, free cases of grey goose and that party and this VIP to respond and come to the game, my boy has luxury box seats tonight etc... there is like a 5-1 single girl to man ratio here and I have never HAD to choose between which of these 6 girls that wants to hang out tonight should I hang out with? and can i pull off two of them? lol

in small towns, people get reputations -- fast. big towns, you can pretty much just blend in and no one knows -- so everyone DOES. driving 90 miles to go to EVE on milwaukee ave is not night life. it's not hanging out with dallas austin and talking bentleys. i dont even consider myself a celebrity, yet i enjoy some perks that i never came close to seeing at all living in the midwest given that i produce *some* music for *some* people who actually are celebrities. imagine if i made 10 mil a year and was on TV every sunday. you forget most of these guys are "kids" ... and we like to have fun and until i have my own kids and my body turns to shit or whatever, then im going to have as much fun as possible while people are still tryin to have it with me. ;)

the last last last place id want to play football (assuming i wasnt a DIEHARD packer fan) would be green bay. if i wasnt from wisconsin, i dunno -- is that in canada? take me to atlanta baby... the women are ridiculous and the parties honestly dont stop til 8 in the morning. sometimes later! :D

This post nearly had me in tears! Too funny.

[mission]

it's funny but it's true... and gbrulz: im sorry for being honest and kind of cool ;). heaven forbid that kids like going out and getting laid ... im such an anamoly :lol:

i dont know how many of you middle-wisconsin folks are mid-twenty-somethin' black dudes but if you think there's no accuracy in my orieginal post you're dead wrong. could i have worded things differently to, perhaps, relate a bit more? sure... the point is that that's the point.

there's a huge relational gap to bridge between northern wisconsin and most of the country.

i love y'all, i've loved GB and the people up there every time i've been to a game, but i live in atlanta for a reason... it's fun, there are opportunities for everything here and im not going to get pulled over because my car is over 40k and I have my windows tinted (like has happened to me in GB just "because").

And we arent talking about a limited amount of spots on NFL rosters. we're talking about attracting free agents who're more desirable than Frank Walker (who?). These are guys we can't get to come to Green Bay -- not guys who're begging for a chance to get on the field. We sign *them* all the time.

[Partial]

it's funny but it's true... and gbrulz: im sorry for being honest and kind of cool ;). heaven forbid that kids like going out and getting laid ... im such an anamoly :lol:

i dont know how many of you middle-wisconsin folks are mid-twenty-somethin' black dudes but if you think there's no accuracy in my orieginal post you're dead wrong. could i have worded things differently to, perhaps, relate a bit more? sure... the point is that that's the point.

there's a huge relational gap to bridge between northern wisconsin and most of the country.

i love y'all, i've loved GB and the people up there every time i've been to a game, but i live in atlanta for a reason... it's fun, there are opportunities for everything here and im not going to get pulled over because my car is over 40k and I have my windows tinted (like has happened to me in GB just "because").

And we arent talking about a limited amount of spots on NFL rosters. we're talking about attracting free agents who're more desirable than Frank Walker (who?). These are guys we can't get to come to Green Bay -- not guys who're begging for a chance to get on the field. We sign *them* all the time.

Your "baller" lifestyle doesn't exist in more than a few places. That is not at all an accurate representation of the USA. Maybe NYC, LA, Atlanta, Chicago, Houston, and maybe a few others. In fact, most NFL cities don't have that lifestyle going on and the players would be in deep shit if they went out and partied like that.

Pacman lived a baller lifestyle too. See where that got him.

[Zool]

it's funny but it's true... and gbrulz: im sorry for being honest and kind of cool ;). heaven forbid that kids like going out and getting laid ... im such an anamoly :lol:

i dont know how many of you middle-wisconsin folks are mid-twenty-somethin' black dudes but if you think there's no accuracy in my orieginal post you're dead wrong. could i have worded things differently to, perhaps, relate a bit more? sure... the point is that that's the point.

there's a huge relational gap to bridge between northern wisconsin and most of the country.

i love y'all, i've loved GB and the people up there every time i've been to a game, but i live in atlanta for a reason... it's fun, there are opportunities for everything here and im not going to get pulled over because my car is over 40k and I have my windows tinted (like has happened to me in GB just "because").

And we arent talking about a limited amount of spots on NFL rosters. we're talking about attracting free agents who're more desirable than Frank Walker (who?). These are guys we can't get to come to Green Bay -- not guys who're begging for a chance to get on the field. We sign *them* all the time.

Your "baller" lifestyle doesn't exist in more than a few places. That is not at all an accurate representation of the USA. Maybe NYC, LA, Atlanta, Chicago, Houston, and maybe a few others. In fact, most NFL cities don't have that lifestyle going on and the players would be in deep shit if they went out and partied like that.

Pacman lived a baller lifestyle too. See where that got him.

Fo Sho. The difference between WI and MN, ND, SD, IA, NB, OK....i digress.

Basically 95% of the country is like GB other than the winters. About 25% of the country has about the same weather.

I would add Miami and San Diego to Partials list.

MPLS is a lot like MKE in my opinion. Better local bands tho.

[PackerBlues]

it's funny but it's true... and gbrulz: im sorry for being honest and kind of cool ;). heaven forbid that kids like going out and getting laid ... im such an anamoly :lol:

i dont know how many of you middle-wisconsin folks are mid-twenty-somethin' black dudes but if you think there's no accuracy in my orieginal post you're dead wrong. could i have worded things differently to, perhaps, relate a bit more? sure... the point is that that's the point.

there's a huge relational gap to bridge between northern wisconsin and most of the country.

i love y'all, i've loved GB and the people up there every time i've been to a game, but i live in atlanta for a reason... it's fun, there are opportunities for everything here and im not going to get pulled over because my car is over 40k and I have my windows tinted (like has happened to me in GB just "because").

And we arent talking about a limited amount of spots on NFL rosters. we're talking about attracting free agents who're more desirable than Frank Walker (who?). These are guys we can't get to come to Green Bay -- not guys who're begging for a chance to get on the field. We sign *them* all the time.

I dont think you need to apologize for your comments Mission, you are probably right. I agree that a young man with a pocket full of money is more likely to want to play for a team in or near a big city. I lived in northern and southern California for years, and I can tell you for a fact, that on a daily basis, you could run into dozens of women that are beautiful enough to pass for models, be it at the beach, or just going to the local taco joint for dinner. I am sorry, but when I go out in any city in Wisconsin, I would have to look pretty hard to find many women that I would compare to a model. Heh heh, and of the ones I would compare to models, most of those are here on student visas from another country. :twisted:

[mission]

hahahah are you kidding

Baller lifestyle is Pacman "making it rain" with $81,000 cash at Magic City (strip club). His baller lifestyle is hanging out with guys that went to Westlake High School (the most murders in school in the country last year). His lifestyle didn't get him anywhere. Growing up in Zone 4 Atlanta, literally a horrible place (and i dont live in the burbs... i live IN the CITY), got him that. A guy with absolutely NO NO NO NO money with millions all of a sudden and a promise to his boys that when he gets big he wont forget them.

That's not Atlanta and it's not BALLER. It's thug as shit. In Georgia, if you have a B or better GPA in high school, your college is paid for through a hope scholarship. There are thousands and thousands of affluent young black men driving super nice cars, living in huge houses, who dont own guns, dont hang out with guys who do and can speak coherent english (unlike pacman). They go out and they arent pop lock and dropping it... they arent throwing thousands of dollars of cash in the air. But damn, there future is set -- that's for sure.

If you think that Pacman is "baller" and "atlanta" or "major market" then you're so stuck in wisconsin it's beyond ridiculous. He is a THUG. and not like Michael Vick thug... I mean... an actual, THUG. running the trap... a THUG. you put him in fucking alaska and he'll find a way to be retarded.

My lifestyle is one of a 4-1 girl-to-guy ratio in a city where i can have my pick and if I wanna go listen to live music, I can take my pick of 15-20 different spots just within 10 minutes. I can buy property with basically no money down and make a killing off it. I can start a studio and sell it to Grand Hustle, I can run an advertising firm and have the University of Georgia excited to be a client.

I can do it. Because there are opportunities here. For me, for you ... and everyone else that cares to seize them.

[Spaulding]

Interesting thread and how the cap space translates to the Atlanta lifestyle (I'm not being sarcastic but mention it here because tone is impossible in plain text).

You're right about Green Bay and Wisconsin in general but the only type of players looking for lifestyle and/or nightlife aren't ones that put football first or likely play with a passion. They play football only to feed their ego and/or get rich which I can understand but that most often doesn't translate to a player you'd want on your team or one that comes with equal baggage.

Besides, most people grow beyond that phase once they start a family or least I envision that my tastes and priorities certainly changed with marriage and kids.

Sign players, not play-yahs