CBS SPORTLINE CAMP TOUR---GB

[Bretsky]

Camp tour: Packers' past (Favre) delays the future (Rodgers)


Mike Freeman Aug. 22, 2007
By Mike Freeman
CBSSports.com National Columnist


GREEN BAY, Wis. -– Green Bay Packers defensive lineman Kabeer Gbaja-Biamila has predicted Super Bowl glory before, but this time, the man has come stone cold unglued.

Following a dominating preseason win against Seattle -- and we all know how much preseason means -- Gbaja-Biamila did standing back-flips predicting the Packers were going to the championship game. Not sometime in the future. This freaking season.

"I really believe we're going all the way," he said. "We're going to the Super Bowl."

When a slightly amused reportorial crowd stepped away, I asked Gbaja-Biamila to expound, and he did not back down.

"We don't get a lot of respect from people and I think this team is being overlooked," he said. "Our defense is going to surprise people. You'll see. The whole league will see. I really believe this can be our year."

Alll-righhttty then, KGB. Love the enthusiasm, dude. But could we, oh, I don't know, maybe win more than seven or eight games before we go getting all Ocho Cinco on the world? What does KGB stand for anyway? Kinda' Getting Bold?

No, there is no Super Bowl in store for Green Bay this year. Just don't see the Packers getting by this little ol' team called the Chicago Bears.

There is still no better place to watch a football game than Lambeau Field. There is no greater NFL warrior in history than Brett Favre. There is no better fan base than the cheese heads. There is arguably no greater organization in the history of sports (and the Packers, unlike some other NFL franchises, continue to treat their fans with great respect).

Yet these are interesting -- if not troubling -- times for the Packers. Green Bay is a prototypical example of an organization stuck in temporal flux, caught in the middle of attempting to create a bold future while respecting its bold past, mainly a past named Favre.

This is an unspeakable truth in Green Bay, where it is God, country and Favre -- or is it Favre, God and country? -- but it is the truth nonetheless. The man who helped to almost single-handedly raise the Packers back to elite heights could be keeping it from progressing forward again.

Favre's defenders will say that while his legs are dead, his arm is still live, and his mind holds the knowledge of a thousand players. That is all true.

The problem remains Favre is no longer capable of greatness. He's old. He's human. He has slowed. It happens every day in this world. Favre isn't a member of the X-Men; his frame is not fused with adamantium.

Thus Favre holds on, an average quarterback with great heart, and the Packers still don't know if Aaron Rodgers can play or not. So when Favre leaves -- hell, the way things are going he might not do that until 2035 -- the team will likely be without a legitimate starter because they refused to throw Rodgers into the fire out of respect for Favre.

As long as Favre is the quarterback, Rodgers can never be, and as long as Rodgers sits on the bench, he remains one of the more wasted draft picks of the past 10 years. Rodgers is entering his third season and he has played just five games total. He could be the next Joe Montana or the next Tim Couch. No one knows.

All this time has passed and all Rodgers has excelled in is holding clipboards and star in preseason games.

"Aaron's at the point in his career he's ready to play," said Packers coach Mike McCarthy. "If you play behind Brett Favre, you don't get too many opportunities to play."

But Rodgers probably should. Favre's quarterback rating has gone from 85.6 in 2002 to 90.4, 92.4, 70.9 and 72.7 last season. The name on the shirt says Brett Favre but the play on the field says Brett Dean.

Johnny Unitas was traded by Baltimore to San Diego in 1973. It was a shocking move at the time but the right one.

Favre and Unitas are not exactly isomorphic but it's close. Should the Packers consider doing to Hall of Famer Favre what the Colts once did to Hall of Famer Unitas?

Or is Favre still the best option?

It's a topic that has been broached before, but now, more than ever, the Packers need to take a hard look at the direction of their team.

Before Rodgers starts collecting Social Security checks.

[Bretsky]

Observations from Packers camp:

1. There are better wide receivers than Donald Driver but few as consistently good. He's just a solid, all-around talent. Driver in fact will enter this season with at least one catch in 80 consecutive games, the team's second longest streak behind Sterling Sharpe at 103.

2. The Packers secondary can't tackle worth a damn.

3. Charles Woodson's knees and joints might have more creaks than an old Victorian house, but he has had a fine preseason. If Woodson gets an interception in the season opener, that would mean four consecutive games with one (extending back to last year), the longest streak since Packers corner John Symank in 1961.

4. The future of longtime tight end Bubba Franks is in serious question. The media in Green Bay have been speculating the chances of Franks regaining his starting job are almost non-existent, and he might not even make the roster. Then against Seattle on Aug. 18, Franks caught two passes in the first quarter, an act that might save him. Franks has been plagued by drops.

5. I've always said that Packers fans are the friendliest group of fans in existence. Never was this truer than when shooting the Packers video segment for CBSSports.com. While I was interviewing one Packers fan, another, a woman, pulled up her shirt behind me to expose her near naked breasts. It was, as one of my editors said, a Freeman Gone Wild video. I believe her bra was a nice shade of blue, if memory serves correctly. She was so drunk she made Lindsey Lohan look sober. But she was reeeaaaalllly nice. By the way, her friend, who was so massively inebriated her blood alcohol level was vodka tonic, said to me: "We don't have any black people in Green Bay." Hey, your loss lady. Now shut up with the racial comments and go help your friend put her shirt back on.

See, this is the kind of hardcore NFL insight you don't get from Prisc

[BallHawk]

Anybody feel like they've read that article about 50 times over the last two years?

[Lurker64]

I'm really sick of the national media banging the drum on "the Packers must throw Aaron Rodgers into the fire before it's too late." Considering that a lot of people have been towing that line for two years now, and Rodger's own admissions that he's grown up a lot in the past two years and still has quite a ways to go, the Packers clearly should not have thrown Rodgers into the fire to see if he could play at any time in the past two years. Because the Rodgers they would be giving the chance to is not the player he has grown into and will eventually become with more seasoning.

Considering that the "Packers need to know whether Rodgers can play" mantra is demonstrably false over the past couple seasons, the Rodgers you would have gotten two years ago is not the Rodgers you will get now and neither are the player that he hopes to be eventually (just ask him), and that the media hasn't changed their tune or even slightly reworked the mantra to reflect the passage of time, there's honestly no reason this argument should be made or even given passing consideration anymore.

[CaliforniaCheez]

Anybody feel like they've read that article about 50 times over the last two years?

He could have mailed that in from anywhere. Why go to Green Bay.

Evidence that Brett Favre has declining skills??? The last 2 years his passer rating is lower than career average. Any research on stats like the Packers leading the league in dropped passes last year?? Not mentioned.

With the internet and fan boards I get a lot more information on other teams from their fans than media people.

I really wouldn't have posted this nothing of a story.

[Freak Out]

Observations from Packers camp:

5. I've always said that Packers fans are the friendliest group of fans in existence. Never was this truer than when shooting the Packers video segment for CBSSports.com. While I was interviewing one Packers fan, another, a woman, pulled up her shirt behind me to expose her near naked breasts. It was, as one of my editors said, a Freeman Gone Wild video. I believe her bra was a nice shade of blue, if memory serves correctly. She was so drunk she made Lindsey Lohan look sober. But she was reeeaaaalllly nice. By the way, her friend, who was so massively inebriated her blood alcohol level was vodka tonic, said to me: "We don't have any black people in Green Bay." Hey, your loss lady. Now shut up with the racial comments and go help your friend put her shirt back on.

See, this is the kind of hardcore NFL insight you don't get from Prisc

What a shit this guy is...why even bother throwing this in the story? Is this a true picture of the residents of Green Bay?

[oregonpackfan]

I liked KGB's enthusiasm BUT, realisitically, there is slim chance the Packers will be in the Championship game. I would LOVE to be wrong on this, mind you, but the Packers are not championship calibur.

Favre is note the QB he once was but of the 32 starting QB's in the NFL, he still ranks around the middle position. This is better than an unproven third year QB in Aaron Rodgers.

Rodgers will have his day as starting QB. He may just have to wait until '08 as I truly think this will be Favre's last year.

[Brandon494]

Observations from Packers camp:

5. I've always said that Packers fans are the friendliest group of fans in existence. Never was this truer than when shooting the Packers video segment for CBSSports.com. While I was interviewing one Packers fan, another, a woman, pulled up her shirt behind me to expose her near naked breasts. It was, as one of my editors said, a Freeman Gone Wild video. I believe her bra was a nice shade of blue, if memory serves correctly. She was so drunk she made Lindsey Lohan look sober. But she was reeeaaaalllly nice. By the way, her friend, who was so massively inebriated her blood alcohol level was vodka tonic, said to me: "We don't have any black people in Green Bay." Hey, your loss lady. Now shut up with the racial comments and go help your friend put her shirt back on.

See, this is the kind of hardcore NFL insight you don't get from Prisc

What a shit this guy is...why even bother throwing this in the story? Is this a true picture of the residents of Green Bay?

What a shit this guy is? Didnt he just say that Packers fan were the friendliest group of fans in existence?

[LL2]

I liked KGB's enthusiasm BUT, realisitically, there is slim chance the Packers will be in the Championship game. I would LOVE to be wrong on this, mind you, but the Packers are not championship calibur.

Favre is note the QB he once was but of the 32 starting QB's in the NFL, he still ranks around the middle position. This is better than an unproven third year QB in Aaron Rodgers.

Rodgers will have his day as starting QB. He may just have to wait until '08 as I truly think this will be Favre's last year.

I agree with you there.

[The Leaper]

Rodgers will have his day as starting QB. He may just have to wait until '08 as I truly think this will be Favre's last year.

Why would it be Favre's last year? If the defense plays as we expect it will, the future is very bright for this team. The OL is talented and will continue to become better as they function together in the next 2-3 years. As long as the team continues to show improvement overall, Favre has no reason to quit based on team performance. If he was going to do that, it would have been following the 4-12 debacle...because the team stunk and his oldest daughter was entering her last year of high school. Once he returned after that, it was clear to me his decision to quit would be almost entirely based on his own ability to play. His youngest daughter won't leave home for awhile...and the team is only bound to improve with the youngest roster in the league.

His physical skills aren't likely to decline any time soon in terms of throwing the ball. Rich Gannon has no Packer goggles, and he is authentically in awe of Favre's arm strength and ability...and Gannon is a guy who was putting up MVP caliber number himself when pushing age 40. Favre is like Nolan Ryan or Roger Clemens...he'll probably still have a throwing arm better than half the QBs in the league when he is 50.

Don't gloss over his "I could be here 5 more years" comment. I think that was a clever way of Favre to tell us that he believes exactly what I just talked about. He wants to win now...but as long as he still feels he can play at a high level and the overall team is improving, there would be no reason for him to quit.

[Partial]

There comes a point where playing football too long will ruin the rest of your life, though.

Some of these guys just get knocked goofy.

[The Leaper]

Some of these guys just get knocked goofy.

I would agree...but it just seems that Favre is not part of the "some" in that sense.

[MadtownPacker]

Some of these guys just get knocked goofy.

I would agree...but it just seems that Favre is not part of the "some" in that sense.Nope sure ain't. Thats the thing with him. He is truly a freak of nature. Look how hard he use to throw the ball. He still throws it hard now and for all you know he holds back so he doesn't break fingers. Just sick.

That was excellent post Leaper. The point you made about playing until he is out of gas makes a lot of sense. The team is looking up and if he holds his own at QB they might contend next season. I could see him playing another year. Why the hell not? The pay wont be bad and the whole team will very likely be better.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Some of these guys just get knocked goofy.

I would agree...but it just seems that Favre is not part of the "some" in that sense.

True, Favre was goofy when he got here. I remember his nickname was "Jethro" in the old packer discussion group on "newsnet"

[Him8123]

what kills me about people who bash favre and say he`s too old. Every single team would jump in a heartbeat to grab him and every fan would run to the rooftops and scream superbowl!!!! if they could ever get him. But since he`s a packer and will remain that way, they wanna drag him through the dirt. Brett is still better than 75-80 % of all the QBs in the league if not greater. You give him consistent recievers who dont drop the ball and his rating would go up. especially when all he`s mainly had was driver to throw to when you have no tight end and a half healthy rookie reciever how do you expect to complete every pass????? It freakin kills me, get off Favres back. And stop sayin put Rodgers in. How long did Steve Young sit behind Montana???

[Rastak]

what kills me about people who bash favre and say he`s too old. Every single team would jump in a heartbeat to grab him and every fan would run to the rooftops and scream superbowl!!!!

Right now? I don't think so. He was on the bottom half of the NFC in QB rating last year and he wasn't that great the year before. I'd say there a few teams that would definately jump on him as a starter, but most wouldn't.

[Him8123]

he wasnt great before cause he had noone to throw to. what we were down to the 4th or 5th string running back I mean samkon gado was our starter. no reciever, driver was the only one with an incumbent robert furgeson. get real.

[Rastak]

he wasnt great before cause he had noone to throw to. what we were down to the 4th or 5th string running back I mean samkon gado was our starter. no reciever, driver was the only one with an incumbent robert furgeson. get real.


I don't buy it but you certainly are entitled to your opinion.

[Him8123]

that is true...you`d take him lol

[Him8123]

in a heartbeat

[Bretsky]

Observations from Packers camp:

5. I've always said that Packers fans are the friendliest group of fans in existence. Never was this truer than when shooting the Packers video segment for CBSSports.com. While I was interviewing one Packers fan, another, a woman, pulled up her shirt behind me to expose her near naked breasts. It was, as one of my editors said, a Freeman Gone Wild video. I believe her bra was a nice shade of blue, if memory serves correctly. She was so drunk she made Lindsey Lohan look sober. But she was reeeaaaalllly nice. By the way, her friend, who was so massively inebriated her blood alcohol level was vodka tonic, said to me: "We don't have any black people in Green Bay." Hey, your loss lady. Now shut up with the racial comments and go help your friend put her shirt back on.

See, this is the kind of hardcore NFL insight you don't get from Prisc

What a shit this guy is...why even bother throwing this in the story? Is this a true picture of the residents of Green Bay?



YES

[Rastak]

that is true...you`d take him lol


No I wouldn't. That would be extremely shortsighted. Exactly how long do you think he's gonna play?

[Bretsky]

that is true...you`d take him lol


No I wouldn't. That would be extremely shortsighted. Exactly how long do you think he's gonna play?


Favre could buy you a year or two to find a legit QB :lol:

[HarveyWallbangers]

he wasnt great before cause he had noone to throw to. what we were down to the 4th or 5th string running back I mean samkon gado was our starter. no reciever, driver was the only one with an incumbent robert furgeson. get real.

I don't buy it but you certainly are entitled to your opinion.

I'm not sure more than half the teams in the league would jump to grab Favre at this point, but I buy that he's better than you're giving him credit for. Still.

In 2005

RB

Starter Ahman Green missed 11 games.

Backup Najeh Davenport missed 11 games.

A street FA, Samkon Gado, started much of that year. He was a nice story, but he's 4th string, at best, in Houston now.

WR

Starter Javon Walker missed 15 games.

3rd WR Robert Ferguson missed 5 games, and was hobbled in several others. Not a huge loss, but he was their third best WR at the time. He was the Packers 7th best WR this year.

The team only carried 4 WRs going into the season--which means a couple of street FAs (can you say Taco Wallace?) play a lot that year. None of those WRs are still in the league.

TE

Starter Bubba Franks (when he was still decent) missed 6 games, and was hobbled in several others.

Backup David Martin missed 4 games.

OG

Adrian Klemm and Will Whitticker started. Both guys are out of the league now. Not to mention starting OC, Mike Flanagan, missed games.

I think it's fair to say he was EXTREMELY handicapped that year. It was a MASH unit.

In 2006, he played A LOT better, but the stats didn't rebound completely--partly because they had a lot of max protection (which isn't going to help completion %) and the most dropped passes in the league (which doesn't help completion %, yards/pass, or TDs). Favre is still better than more than half the QBs in the league, but there are teams that would go with a young QB that they have over acquiring Favre.

[Rastak]

Yea, actually 2005 was really bad for injuries. Harv, this is my honest opinion. Favre is a middle of the road QB these days and with his age there just aren't that many teams that would trade their younger QB for him.

I don't think he is near the bottom of the NFL, but I don't think he's anywhere near the top either.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Yea, actually 2005 was really bad for injuries. Harv, this is my honest opinion. Favre is a middle of the road QB these days and with his age there just aren't that many teams that would trade their younger QB for him.

I don't think he is near the bottom of the NFL, but I don't think he's anywhere near the top either.

I don't disagree, but I think he's still in the top half of starting QBs in the league. You brought up QB rating to judge him. I don't think that's fair given the circumstances of the past two years.

[esoxx]

Favre looked pretty good in that Viking sweep last year. Especially that laser in the Dome to Driver for a long TD just before the half. :mrgreen:

[Rastak]

Favre looked pretty good in that Viking sweep last year. Especially that laser in the Dome to Driver for a long TD just before the half. :mrgreen:


So beating a 6-10 team makes you top flight.....


:shock:


:wink:

[Lurker64]

So beating a 6-10 team makes you top flight.....


Hey, they would have been 8-8 if didn't beat them, would have barely missed the playoffs too...

:wink:

[esoxx]

Favre looked pretty good in that Viking sweep last year. Especially that laser in the Dome to Driver for a long TD just before the half. :mrgreen:


So beating a 6-10 team makes you top flight.....


:shock:


:wink:

Just think, if the Vikings would have swept instead they would have been 8-8 and the Packers 6-10. Then we'd likely have Adrian Peterson and you'd probably have Justin Harr....never mind. :lol:

[Rastak]

Favre looked pretty good in that Viking sweep last year. Especially that laser in the Dome to Driver for a long TD just before the half. :mrgreen:


So beating a 6-10 team makes you top flight.....


:shock:


:wink:

Just think, if the Vikings would have swept instead they would have been 8-8 and the Packers 6-10. Then we'd likely have Adrian Peterson and you'd probably have Justin Harr....never mind. :lol:


LOL.....that was funny...