Winners and Losers quick Take

[Deputy Nutz]

winners

James Jones, Jones is still not a finished product, but he is far from the 6th or 7th round draft choice that all the experts tabbed him as coming out of San Jose St. Jones once again led the team in receptions with 6, and in yards with 80. Jones did have a fumble recovered by Jacksonville. Jones has good to superb hands, catching the ball with his hands away from his body, he also goes and gets the ball at the highest point, and fights the defender for the ball.

Bubba Franks, He only had one catch, but it was for 25 yards. On the catch he was able to stretch the middle of the field and catch the ball on the run. He was also able to keep his feet and gain 10 yards or so on his own. Franks is only 29 years old, and hasn't aged himself out of the starting spot like some think. He is more focused this year and I give credit to McCarthy for taking away the starting position from him and making him earn it back.

Brett Favre, Brett completed 70% of his passes for 130 yards, and once he found his chemistry with his receivers, he was able to complete 7 passes in a row to drive the Packers into the redzone and a field goal..

Desmond Bishop, Bishop may had been out of position, but he made up for it with his hit on Reggie Williams. Bishop led the Packers in tackles with 5

Losers
Offensive line, The interior on the starting line was beaten badly in all phases of the running game. They were pushed off the line of scrimmage and never even had the chance to finish their blocks. Travis Lefew looked like an absolute failure at right tackle for most of the night giving up two sacks and almost taking out his own teammate with a diving tackle during Martin's interception.

Ingle Martin, Most likely the Packers are going to cut him after his performance tonight. He didn't have a lot of time but he threw three passes with one of them being an interception that was returned for a touchdown. He looked uncomfortable in the pocket and didn't seem to be able to create anything on his own. The Packers will most likely part with Martin, and either sign another QB or sign Paul Thompson to the practice squad.

Tyrone Culver, couldn't run with a tight end down the middle of the field on a 3rd and goal from the 30. Most likely he is out as the 4th safety and opens an even wider door to Aaron Rouse and Marquand Mannuel.

[cpk1994]

winners

James Jones, Jones is still not a finished product, but he is far from the 6th or 7th round draft choice that all the experts tabbed him as coming out of San Jose St. Jones once again led the team in receptions with 6, and in yards with 80. Jones did have a fumble recovered by Jacksonville. Jones has good to superb hands, catching the ball with his hands away from his body, he also goes and gets the ball at the highest point, and fights the defender for the ball.

Bubba Franks, He only had one catch, but it was for 25 yards. On the catch he was able to stretch the middle of the field and catch the ball on the run. He was also able to keep his feet and gain 10 yards or so on his own. Franks is only 29 years old, and hasn't aged himself out of the starting spot like some think. He is more focused this year and I give credit to McCarthy for taking away the starting position from him and making him earn it back.

Brett Favre, Brett completed 70% of his passes for 130 yards, and once he found his chemistry with his receivers, he was able to complete 7 passes in a row to drive the Packers into the redzone and a field goal..

Desmond Bishop, Bishop may had been out of position, but he made up for it with his hit on Reggie Williams. Bishop led the Packers in tackles with 5

Losers
Offensive line, The interior on the starting line was beaten badly in all phases of the running game. They were pushed off the line of scrimmage and never even had the chance to finish their blocks. Travis Lefew looked like an absolute failure at right tackle for most of the night giving up two sacks and almost taking out his own teammate with a diving tackle during Martin's interception.

Ingle Martin, Most likely the Packers are going to cut him after his performance tonight. He didn't have a lot of time but he threw three passes with one of them being an interception that was returned for a touchdown. He looked uncomfortable in the pocket and didn't seem to be able to create anything on his own. The Packers will most likely part with Martin, and either sign another QB or sign Paul Thompson to the practice squad.

Tyrone Culver, couldn't run with a tight end down the middle of the field on a 3rd and goal from the 30. Most likely he is out as the 4th safety and opens an even wider door to Aaron Rouse and Marquand Mannuel.

Well, they would have to sign another QB becuase if you cut Martin and put Thomson on PS, you only have two QB's on the roster.

[swede]

Losers
Ingle Martin, Most likely the Packers are going to cut him after his performance tonight. He didn't have a lot of time but he threw three passes with one of them being an interception that was returned for a touchdown. He looked uncomfortable in the pocket and didn't seem to be able to create anything on his own. The Packers will most likely part with Martin, and either sign another QB or sign Paul Thompson to the practice squad.


Well, they would have to sign another QB becuase if you cut Martin and put Thomson on PS, you only have two QB's on the roster.

Favre and someone to hold the clipboard. By my count that's two and there is no rule that says we have to carry three.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Well, they would have to sign another QB becuase if you cut Martin and put Thomson on PS, you only have two QB's on the roster.

Many teams are moving to two QBs. Really, does Ingle or Thompson give us a better chance of winning a game than WR Holiday--who was a QB at Notre Dame? Either way, we're screwed if it gets to the emergency QB. I'm with Nutz.

[Bretsky]

Well, they would have to sign another QB becuase if you cut Martin and put Thomson on PS, you only have two QB's on the roster.

Many teams are moving to two QBs. Really, does Ingle or Thompson give us a better chance of winning a game than WR Holiday--who was a QB at Notre Dame? Either way, we're screwed if it gets to the emergency QB. I'm with Nutz.


Martin and Thompson are wasted roster spots; keep two

[packrulz]

That hit by Bishop was sick, I love that type of hitting, I think Hodge is gone, his knees and legs are too skinny.

[Fritz]

Ah, how things change! I was wringing my hands when TT picked James Jones in the 3rd round. James Who? From where? What about all those guys I read about on my little internet sites? Argh!

Now, Jones looks like he'll be the real deal, with time.

Same story, opposite ending, with Abdul Hodge. I was totally jacked when TT grabbed him in the third round. A great value pick (whatever that is)! What a steal! And now...he may not even make the team.

Methinks lots of us fans, me included, overestimate ourselves vis a vis the draft.

However, Brandon Jackson looks just okay. No, he had little room, but still, he didn't do much on his own.

Man, they better figure out how to run the ball.

[The Leaper]

I will also admit I was wrong on Jones. I liked his potential long term, but I really thought it was going to take him longer to adjust to the NFL. He still is making a lot of rookie mistakes, but he has shown an ability to make a contribution in 2007.

While I would like to run the ball, if a team gives us the pass then we have to take it. Running the ball for the sake of running the ball is pointless. Jacksonville was playing an aggressive run defense in this game with their LBs...clearly not because they were scared of our attack but to prepare themselves for the season. If a team comes out and does that, McCarthy has to be able to immediately see it and attack the middle of that defense repeatedly through the air. When we did that, we marched down the field twice behind both Favre and Rodgers. Our need for a strong TE was clear last night.

Our running game is never going to get anywhere as long as our passing game poses little threat 10 yards or more downfield.

[Partial]

While I would like to run the ball, if a team gives us the pass then we have to take it. Running the ball for the sake of running the ball is pointless. Jacksonville was playing an aggressive run defense in this game...clearly not because they were scared of our attack but to prepare themselves for the season. If a team comes out and does that, McCarthy has to be able to immediately see it and attack that defense repeatedly through the air. When we did that, we marched down the field twice behind both Favre and Rodgers.

Our running game is never going to get anywhere as long as our passing game poses little threat 10 yards or more downfield.

Not really. Even when we came out with two receivers they kept a nickelback in. Consequently, we tried to spread them out with 3-4 receiver sets quite a bit.

It isn't easy to run on a team like Jacksonville. Like the Vikings, it can be done if you set-up the run with the pass. Not many teams can go out there and just pound away against them. Very few teams have an offensive line good enough to succeed in that.

The way to run on them is to spread them out and keep them defending the pass. Then you should run outside on them. I'd run right at Hayward. He's better against the run than a KGB but still the weak-point in terms of run defense for the Jags.

[Packnut]

Can't score points without being able to run the ball. I hope everyone who kept stating all off-season about how our run game would be fine was paying attention last night. There is a reason why teams pay RB's an un-godly amount of cash. It's one position where being cheap does'nt work.

It look's like the whole ZBS is turning into a huge mistake. At least with a Pro type power game, you can gain a couple of yards with a small push. We don't even have that now. Jackson is'nt the kind of back that can make defenders miss.

Easy to predict our offense now. Same ole stuff. Good running defenses will shut us down. Favre will be forced to throw 30+ times and with teams not respecting the run and in-experienced WR's, the picks will come and then we can hear all about how it's the QB's fault from the ignorant. We should be getting used to this script.......

Thank God for our D, cause they will determine our success this season.

[The Leaper]

Not really. Even when we came out with two receivers they kept a nickelback in. Consequently, we tried to spread them out with 3-4 receiver sets quite a bit.

I know they kept in an extra DB...but it seemed to me that they did that to ensure the LBs left in there could concentrate almost entirely on the run game. That was why our pedestrian TEs started exploiting the middle of the field in the 2nd quarter.

If the LBs aren't going to bother watching behind them, we have to attack them there somehow...with TEs or slot WRs.

[Spaulding]

Can't believe I'm saying this but I agree with Packnut.

Defense looks lights out and passing game decent (pray DD is out only short while) but the running game has been disappointing to say the least. Only bright spot has been the ability to push the one yarders into the end zone for six.

[The Leaper]

Can't score points without being able to run the ball. I hope everyone who kept stating all off-season about how our run game would be fine was paying attention last night. There is a reason why teams pay RB's an un-godly amount of cash. It's one position where being cheap does'nt work.

Jacksonville is an elite run defense. Few teams post 4 yards a carry against that defense.

RB is also a position where most teams hold on to anyone worth a damn. The only guys available in free agency are typically about 12 months away from retirement. I suppose we could have traded for someone, but it would've come at a very high price.

We were up 10-0 at half against the Jags first team...even when we began to liberally substitute in the 2nd quarter and despite our inability to gain more than 1 yard on a run.

When you have a defense to rely on, it is more important to avoid turnovers than anything else...more important even than a successful run game.

[cpk1994]

Can't score points without being able to run the ball. I hope everyone who kept stating all off-season about how our run game would be fine was paying attention last night. There is a reason why teams pay RB's an un-godly amount of cash. It's one position where being cheap does'nt work.

It look's like the whole ZBS is turning into a huge mistake. At least with a Pro type power game, you can gain a couple of yards with a small push. We don't even have that now. Jackson is'nt the kind of back that can make defenders miss.

Easy to predict our offense now. Same ole stuff. Good running defenses will shut us down. Favre will be forced to throw 30+ times and with teams not respecting the run and in-experienced WR's, the picks will come and then we can hear all about how it's the QB's fault from the ignorant. We should be getting used to this script.......

Thank God for our D, cause they will determine our success this season.I agree. Lets just cut Brandon Jackson and give up. Write the Packs record down as 0-16 and lets look forward to 2008. :roll:

[Ballboy]

I agree the run game looked bad....but if over the course of an entire game, we would've been able to run the ball. Your right, MM saw what the defense was doing and went to the pass, that would've weakened the LB's and forced the DL to run straight upfield instead of pushing to stop the run. I really have NO problem with Brett thowing 30 times a game. Lets face it, if we are going to make the playoffs and win a few in the playoffs, it will be Brett that takes us there.

Isn't the theory behind the West Coast Offense and the reason Walsh won SB's is the quick 3-5 yard pass with the hopes of breaking on the same as a 3-5 yard run with the hopes of breaking one? We are still taking time off the clock to rest the defense?

[wist43]

James Jones is making me a believer... It's one thing to catch a slew of balls running unmolested drag routes, but Jones showed some good route running ability last night - and, of course his hands have been impeccable.

He's not as explosive as Jennings, and his ceiling is probably as a #2 - but, I'll give TT credit on this one to this point - Jones is much better than I thought he'd be.

[Badgepack]

If Brandon Jackson keeps getting this many carries in preseason and early games he will be worn out by week 7. Nice to see he can catch the ball out of the backfield though.

[Brohm]

MM said a lot of White's runs were do to an adjustment they made to the inside-ZB scheme. If that is the case, why didn't they make that adjusment sooner? I'm sure having the Jags 3's in there helped as well.

[PaCkFan_n_MD]

Jackson really didn't impress me much yesterday. I didn't see much burst or power when he was running like I used to see with AG. I know there wasn't much room to run, but I didn't see much fight in his running. That’s not to say he didn't do some thing well because he did, but he still has a long way to go.

[HarveyWallbangers]

I think Jackson will be fine, as long as he pass blocks. That's the biggest question for me. Like most RBs, he'll get what the OL gives him. Ahman had a lot of games against good defenses that looked a lot like yesterday (not much room to run).

[Merlin]

Ingle Martin, Most likely the Packers are going to cut him after his performance tonight. He didn't have a lot of time but he threw three passes with one of them being an interception that was returned for a touchdown. He looked uncomfortable in the pocket and didn't seem to be able to create anything on his own. The Packers will most likely part with Martin, and either sign another QB or sign Paul Thompson to the practice squad.

He should be cut why? Because he forced a bad throw? If so, cut Favre as well. He looked uncomfortable in the pocket? Cut Rodgers as well. He didn't seem to be able to create anything on his own? Cut Rodgers as well. Typical, you rate a guy who has always been thrown in with the 2nd and 3rd teams far more harshly then you would ever rate Rodgers. Rodgers looked okay with the starters (for the first time in a very long time). He threw the ball well save one pass that should have been picked off (the first one where Rodgers never read the safety per usual). Other then that, he stared down his primary receiver as usual, didn't feel the pressure as usual, never really stepped up in the pocket to avoid pressure as usual and looked uncomfortable in the pocket. This was just with the 1st team offense. Rodgers looked like crap with the 2nd string as he always does. He didn't create anything on his own, he looked uncomfortable in the pocket. So you let one QB off the hook why? Oh yeah, because the announcers said that teams are starting to go with 2 QB's instead of 3 and that McCarthy was quoted as saying that they will keep the best 53 players basically regardless of their positions. I think you need to step away from the kool-aid.


Tyrone Culver, couldn't run with a tight end down the middle of the field on a 3rd and goal from the 30. Most likely he is out as the 4th safety and opens an even wider door to Aaron Rouse and Marquand Mannuel.

Culver had good position on the play. He didn't have the size to make the play on a well thrown ball. Typical, a guy you don't like doesn't make one play and we should cut his ass. Did you ever wonder how a tight end got that far downfield? Go look at the play and tell me the safety over the top was the only one who should have had coverage on the play. Rouse & Manual are in the running for what? First to get cut? Although Rouse has played better he has been inconsistant and Manual hasn't done much right since he came to the Packers. Al Harris played very poorly but he isn't on your coveted list?


As far as our running game, the line wasn't nearly as much to blame as was Jackson. Jackson didn't make the right decisions. On at least two plays, there was no one on the outside and he cut into the rush. On at least three plays he juked himself into a short gain. The ZBS relies more on the running back to make the right decision then it does on line creating gapping holes. Jackson has looked good at times but he didn't look very good in this game. White looked good be he is a downhill runner. Morency is a one cut back but he isn't an option right now. Herron looked poor in this game as well.

[cheesner]

Can't score points without being able to run the ball. I hope everyone who kept stating all off-season about how our run game would be fine was paying attention last night. There is a reason why teams pay RB's an un-godly amount of cash. It's one position where being cheap does'nt work.

It look's like the whole ZBS is turning into a huge mistake. At least with a Pro type power game, you can gain a couple of yards with a small push. We don't even have that now. Jackson is'nt the kind of back that can make defenders miss.

Easy to predict our offense now. Same ole stuff. Good running defenses will shut us down. Favre will be forced to throw 30+ times and with teams not respecting the run and in-experienced WR's, the picks will come and then we can hear all about how it's the QB's fault from the ignorant. We should be getting used to this script.......

Thank God for our D, cause they will determine our success this season.
If yesterday was week 1 of the NFL season, and we kept our starters in, I believe we are 1-0 today. That is a good win over a good team. The Jags are known as a better, if not the best, run defense in the NFL. You have to take what they give you, and we would have won last night. The O-Line is still developing and did much better in the first 2 games. Why do you throw in the towel so easily? As far as RBs, I am not sure that LT does that much better last night with what BJ had to work with. The Jags wanted to stop the run at the risk of giving up the pass - which BF exploited. There are things to work on, of course, but last night, overall, the 1st offense was a success.

[Noodle]

Based on what I saw of him at Nebraska, this is Jackson: a good one-cut back who can pop a 12-15 yarder and will rarely get thrown for a loss. Good balance, good hands, catches and runs well in the flat, runs a little high, good acceleration out of the cut, but does not have a home run top gear.

But he's no power back, he needs a chance to make his cut. AG could bull his way for 2 or 3, but you can't expect that from Jackson. The kid is going to need his OL to do their dang jobs.

[Harlan Huckleby]

I think Jackson will be fine, as long as he pass blocks. That's the biggest question for me. Like most RBs, he'll get what the OL gives him.


Nah, the running backs that just get what the oline gives them get cut, or are back in the depth chart. Jackson has to get better or the packers are screwed. Every team needs a featured back who can work some magic.

[Packnut]

Can't score points without being able to run the ball. I hope everyone who kept stating all off-season about how our run game would be fine was paying attention last night. There is a reason why teams pay RB's an un-godly amount of cash. It's one position where being cheap does'nt work.

It look's like the whole ZBS is turning into a huge mistake. At least with a Pro type power game, you can gain a couple of yards with a small push. We don't even have that now. Jackson is'nt the kind of back that can make defenders miss.

Easy to predict our offense now. Same ole stuff. Good running defenses will shut us down. Favre will be forced to throw 30+ times and with teams not respecting the run and in-experienced WR's, the picks will come and then we can hear all about how it's the QB's fault from the ignorant. We should be getting used to this script.......

Thank God for our D, cause they will determine our success this season.
If yesterday was week 1 of the NFL season, and we kept our starters in, I believe we are 1-0 today. That is a good win over a good team. The Jags are known as a better, if not the best, run defense in the NFL. You have to take what they give you, and we would have won last night. The O-Line is still developing and did much better in the first 2 games. Why do you throw in the towel so easily? As far as RBs, I am not sure that LT does that much better last night with what BJ had to work with. The Jags wanted to stop the run at the risk of giving up the pass - which BF exploited. There are things to work on, of course, but last night, overall, the 1st offense was a success.


If you read the interviews from Jax players after the game, it was clear they did'nt do any game-planning for GB. All the teams we play early on have good to great run D's. They will game-plan.

I've watched the 1st half 4 times and our line did not do well with the run game. It was the same shit as last year where the back-side comes free. You cannot win if you can't run the ball on a consistent basis and we can't.

[Harlan Huckleby]

As far as our running game, the line wasn't nearly as much to blame as was Jackson. Jackson didn't make the right decisions.

I agree 100%. Didn't Jackson come out early in the draft? He doesn't even have that much experience as a starter in college ball. I expect he is going to improve throughout the year.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Nah, the running backs that just get what the oline gives them get cut, or are back in the depth chart. Jackson has to get better or the packers are screwed. Every team needs a featured back who can work some magic.

Ummm... I didn't mean he could never make a guy miss or never break a tackle. However, in the grand scheme of things, 95% of RBs will have good stats if their OL blocks well. They won't if their OL doesn't block well. Shaun Alexander was MVP two years ago. They lost Steve Hutchinson, and he looked prettty ordinary last year--even before he got injured. Jamal Lewis has run for 2000 yards when his blocking was good. Not so good otherwise. Ahman Green has looked ordinary in many games. Great in others. Depended mostly on the blocking.

I think Jackson has good cutting ability, and he broke tackles last week. He showed both abilities on the videos from his college days. He's looked good on the runs he got blocking. Most of the time he hasn't had room. I came away thing our run blocking was poor last night, and that worries more than anything else. Unlike you, I don't think there were a ton of holes last night that he missed out on. Seems like we had this conversation about Ahman Green a lot last year. Some people would argue that Ahman wasn't any good anymore. Some others thought the run blocking was poor. Most likely a combination.

I haven't seen many obvious holes that he's missed out on--although I've seen a couple of runs like that. I saw Ahman miss some last year though too. This kid isn't Ahman in his prime, but I don't think he'll be a huge disappointment nor a stud this year. I think he'll be a Dominic Rhodes-type back.

[Harlan Huckleby]

95% of RBs will have good stats if their OL blocks well. They won't if their OL doesn't block well.

Its true, almost no running backs are successful when the defense is getting penetration. And a generic running back can probably get get good stats behind excellent blocking.

Ahman Green's forte was yardage after contact. He didn't necessarily plow-over the defenders, but he bounced forward and regularly turned 3 yard gains into 5 yard gains. Corey White has a similar running style, but will never be able to do that, even if Corey White can get good stats behind great blocking.

It's a chicken or egg argument. John Elway won a super bowl when he got a SPECIAL running back to complement him. Shaun Alexander is special. Most Super Bowl teams, and play off teams for that matter, have a special back.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Ahman Green's forte was yardage after contact. He didn't necessarily plow-over the defenders, but he bounced forward and regularly turned 3 yard gains into 5 yard gains. Corey White has a similar running style, but will never be able to do that, even if Corey White can get good stats behind great blocking.

Ahman, in his prime, was a special RB. He might have been the greatest runner in Packers history. Maybe second or third behind two Hall of Famers. This kid isn't going to be that. However, Ahman wasn't that last year. He basically got what the OL gave him--outside of his one long run against Miami.

[Harlan Huckleby]

I agree, that's why i didn't care that they lost him.

And Houston doesn't have a special running back now either.

I think Chicago has one, Benson. They had two last year.

Jackson may be special. They NEED him to become special.

[Brohm]

Indeed that special back that Elway got was a 6th (?) round pick as well. Here's to hoping BJack can get some magic going.

Hell, even AG was a 3rd.

[woodbuck27]

Can't believe I'm saying this but I agree with Packnut.

Defense looks lights out and passing game decent (pray DD is out only short while) but the running game has been disappointing to say the least. Only bright spot has been the ability to push the one yarders into the end zone for six.

but of course there is the Morency factor still in the wings?

Yea . . .right. :)

We have to be really patient for sure with B. Jackson as he looks lost to date. He's a rookie!!

C. White is looking decent against the oppositions subs.It's time to start him.

The real concern is again our OL that just isn't up to snuff in this TC. Is the ZBS going to be the answer?

Size and talent (speed and scheme) against us will destroy us.

We must run the ball or Favre will be called upon to throw the ball 40+ times avg. per game and that spells lights out. Too much heat on our evolving 'D'. The 'D' will get worn down.

A house of cards.

[HarveyWallbangers]

If you read the interviews from Jax players after the game, it was clear they did'nt do any game-planning for GB. All the teams we play early on have good to great run D's. They will game-plan.

This is true. The converse is also true. McCarthy said the Packers didn't do any game-planning for Jacksonville.

[swede]

I'm glad that Jackson has gotten as much time as he has with the first string. But Morency has yet to come back. Perhaps he will show better vision and a little quicker cut than Brandon Jackson and will regain his starting job by the time we get to the third or fourth game.

[Packnut]

If you read the interviews from Jax players after the game, it was clear they did'nt do any game-planning for GB. All the teams we play early on have good to great run D's. They will game-plan.

This is true. The converse is also true. McCarthy said the Packers didn't do any game-planning for Jacksonville.

My point was on the defensive side. Both teams were vanilla on defense, but running the ball is running the ball, game plan or not and we could'nt. Had the same problem against the Steeler first string. Seattle is not a top run defense and it showed.

I watched the 1st half again and anyone who expects us to improve much over last season is'nt paying attention as far as the run game goes. Jackson is very tentative and it's allowing backside pressure. Of course the reason he's tentative is because there ain't no damn hole to run through!

[Fritz]

I'm concerned about the lack of a running game, to be sure. Jackson is okay, but that's all I see so far.

Having said that, I would also recall to people the Sherman teams which had fantastic running games and passing attacks. Favre would march 'em down, get it into the end zone, everybody in Green Bay would be cheering, and then, thirty-eight seconds later, Daunte Culpepper or somebody would be zipping a TD pass into the end zone on the other end of the field...yes, Favre gets frustrated with these young guns, but I imagine he used to get frustrated with the old (lack of) defense.

IF this defense can be tough, then Favre won't have to do so much. Of course, that offense is not capable of much at this point, but I think that it will improve, if only by small amounts.

It might be fun to watch the defense this year, and agonizing to watch the offense.

[Fritz]

Whoa, wait a sec - after typing the bit about "fantastic running and passing" or whatever I wrote, I remembered something:

Tom Rossley. Wasn't there a mighty amount of bitching about his play calling? Hmm. Maybe even I am capable of romanticizing the Sherman offenses....

[Deputy Nutz]

I tell you some are you are just fucking nuts. I watched that game three or four time with the help of DVR, Brandon Jackson couldn't do shit when the offensive line, especially Colledge, Spitz, and Wells are spending all damn day in their own backfield because they were being out classed by the Jacksonville tackles. Clifton is in mid preseason form, meaning in all regards besides protecting Favre on passing downs, he is making sure he isn't going to get injured. He made almost no effort at the second level last night doing his best staying away from piles.

Jackson isn't superman and neither was Green, sure Green did a good job at breaking tackles, but that was once he was past the line of scrimmage, very few backs are able to break tackles and gain significant yards when they are hit at the line of scrimmage or before.

Jackson was doing his best simply not to lose yards when he had offensive linemen being pushed off the line of scrimmage, the zone blocking scheme will not work at all if linemen can't at least hold the point of attack.

Harris didn't play great, but he gave up only two passes and although he was burnt on one or two plays the ball was over thrown, and I don't know if that was QB error, or maybe Harris got a really good jam and disrupted the route, either way it goes down as an incompletion.

Culver got no help from his linebacker on that touchdown, but the simple fact was he was out of position against a bigger receiver to do anything to disrupt the completion, He might make the team over Mannuel, but if it comes down between him and Rouse he is a goner.

One more time, I am sick of people comparing Jackson to Ahman Green. First off, Green was in his 2nd year when he came to the Packers, and really he hit his stride in his fifth year. Green came into the league weighing 212 pounds, some said that he was too small to be an every down back in the league, and not to mention he had a bit of a problem holding on to the football. Green matured and got bigger and stronger throughout his years in the league. Jackson wasn't drafted to equal Green in his rookie year, very few rookies have that expectation to be drafted and come in and replace a pro bowl caliber running back that is the all time leading rusher for your franchise. Jackson along with the Packers will be more than lucky if he is able to accomplish what Green did while in Green Bay, but the fact is he is still a rookie, and a young rookie at that coming out as a junior. Jackson may have attended the same college and may at time may be favorably compared to Green's slashing running style, but as of right now thats it. Jackson has a lot to prove in this league, but one thing he does not is that he is already and equal to Ahman Green.

[RashanGary]

I think you're going to see a different outcome when the preseason is over and the cut blocking begins. It looked bad last night, but on a regular season night, they would have been cutting the two prowbowl DT's instead of trying to go belly to belly.

[Partial]

I think you're going to see a different outcome when the preseason is over and the cut blocking begins. It looked bad last night, but on a regular season night, they would have been cutting the two prowbowl DT's instead of trying to go belly to belly.

You don't cut the guy you take on face to face. That wouldn't really work.

What they want to do is get a push back and get into space, go and occupy a linebacker, and cut down the pursuing defenders.

If they just straight up went and cut down the tackles head to head without holding the point before runner advances past them, who would occupy the linebackers and set-up blocking?

[Deputy Nutz]

Partial, you can cut a defensive tackle with the center, or if you want to cut the nosetackle, you can you use the backside quard.

[Deputy Nutz]

Ingle Martin, Most likely the Packers are going to cut him after his performance tonight. He didn't have a lot of time but he threw three passes with one of them being an interception that was returned for a touchdown. He looked uncomfortable in the pocket and didn't seem to be able to create anything on his own. The Packers will most likely part with Martin, and either sign another QB or sign Paul Thompson to the practice squad.

He should be cut why? Because he forced a bad throw? If so, cut Favre as well. He looked uncomfortable in the pocket? Cut Rodgers as well. He didn't seem to be able to create anything on his own? Cut Rodgers as well. Typical, you rate a guy who has always been thrown in with the 2nd and 3rd teams far more harshly then you would ever rate Rodgers. Rodgers looked okay with the starters (for the first time in a very long time). He threw the ball well save one pass that should have been picked off (the first one where Rodgers never read the safety per usual). Other then that, he stared down his primary receiver as usual, didn't feel the pressure as usual, never really stepped up in the pocket to avoid pressure as usual and looked uncomfortable in the pocket. This was just with the 1st team offense. Rodgers looked like crap with the 2nd string as he always does. He didn't create anything on his own, he looked uncomfortable in the pocket. So you let one QB off the hook why? Oh yeah, because the announcers said that teams are starting to go with 2 QB's instead of 3 and that McCarthy was quoted as saying that they will keep the best 53 players basically regardless of their positions. I think you need to step away from the kool-aid.


Don't you hate it when you go on and on and the next day you're proved to be a rambling idiot? Just fucking with ya, your not an idiot.

[LEWCWA]

funny stuff :lol:

[Fritz]

It's true that Jackson had little if any room. I'm not saying I think he's awful. It's just that I'm waiting to see that burst, or that tackle-breaking ability, on a few plays. Maybe
Ahman Green did spoil me. Maybe I have to think more Edgar Bennett.

[cpk1994]

Whoa, wait a sec - after typing the bit about "fantastic running and passing" or whatever I wrote, I remembered something:

Tom Rossley. Wasn't there a mighty amount of bitching about his play calling? Hmm. Maybe even I am capable of romanticizing the Sherman offenses....Not really, Rossley falls under the old saying, "EVen a blind squirrel finds a nut once".

[Deputy Nutz]

It's true that Jackson had little if any room. I'm not saying I think he's awful. It's just that I'm waiting to see that burst, or that tackle-breaking ability, on a few plays. Maybe
Ahman Green did spoil me. Maybe I have to think more Edgar Bennett.

This is Jackson's highlight tape from college. It looks to me like he has the ability at least at that level to break tackles. At this level it is more important to gain yards after contact. NFL defensive players are too fast and too good of tacklers for running backs to break a tackle and then run for ten more yards, if they get slowed up, especially at the line of scrimmage in most cases their is another tackle waiting only a few short yards away.

He also had no problems breaking tackles last week, but lets make comparisons on a weekly basis forgetting everything we see in the past.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=n7LqfRdnT0I

One other thing that I think most of us are forgetting about Green, He had track star speed. He was clocked at a 4.22 at his pro day in Lincoln Nebraska. He claims in this article that he has been clocked at 4.18 in the fforty
http://www2.jsonline.com/packer/news/may00/ahman25052400.asp

Jackson's forty time was a 4.54. Thats a huge difference.

here is Green's college highlight tape
http://youtube.com/watch?v=k543UYkYqz0&mode=related&search=[/url]