A possible explaination for the sloppy run blocking

[RashanGary]

We all know that the cut block is a vital part of running the ball in a zone scheme. It happens to be a pretty dangerous technique, a technique that opposing teams constantly complain about.

I've noticed that the Packers have not done much, if any, cut blocking this preseason. I think it's something similar to Troy Polamolu easing up when he hit Favre. It might be a preseason courtesy thing.

When the regular season comes, so will the cut blocking and untill we start cut blocking, we're rendering our run game useless.

As for now, our pass protection has been very good with just 5 or 6 depending on if it is a blitz. We've been better this year in pass pro than we have in 2-3 years. If both areas were down, you could say "the oline is just bad AGAIN", but it's not like that.

When the gloves come off and the regular season begins, will the run blocking catch up? If cut blocking has anything to do with it, it might

[RashanGary]

double post

[pack4to84]

I was telling my brother the same thing last night. I notice we didn't do any cut
blocking until all starters and 2nd string defenders for the Jags where out. Sure enough the running game look better when White was running he had a cut back lane.

[RashanGary]

I was telling my brother the same thing last night. I notice we didn't do any cut
blocking until all starters and 2nd string defenders for the Jags where out. Sure enough the running game look better when White was running he had a cut back lane.

Good to see someone else noticed. The backside was just collapsing and that is where the cuts should be.

[BallHawk]

It's common courtesy not to cut-block during the preseason. It's a dangerous thing and there's no point in potentially injuring a player in a meaningless game.

Does this mean that there should be no concern for the running game? No way. I'm still scared to see what we look like against Philly. However, it is not as bad as it looks.

[RashanGary]

In the spirit of this thought, I decided to listen to Scott Wells' interview after the game to see if he mentioned them not cut blocking and how that might have effected the run game. Here is what I found,

Reporter "Scott, are you concerned about where the running game is at?"

"No, I'm not concerned about it, really at all. I would have been more comfortable if we would have generated more yards off of those nine attempts but that's why you do it in the preaseason. At the same time we've had a LIMITED game plan in each preseason game. There is more to come from us and hopefully it will generate more in the running game."

He said that last part sort of matter of factly.

I didn't listen to this before I made the cut blocking observation. I just listened to it now to look for evidence. I think it's a courtesy thing and although it gets fans in a panic, I think it's the right thing to do. If we come out and run block as well as we've pass blocked when the cut blocking begins, I think all will be forgiven.

[RashanGary]

Favre has been pretty impressed with that group as well. I thought they were the key to the season and still do. The way they've pass blocked has inpired confidence. The way they've run without cut blocking just makes the run game a question mark. It doesn't mean they are bad, it just means we don't know. If they can run block with all of their run blocking technique as well as the pass block now, we could have a pretty good offense to go with our good ST's and potentially great defense.

[Merlin]

It's common courtesy not to cut-block during the preseason. It's a dangerous thing and there's no point in potentially injuring a player in a meaningless game.

Does this mean that there should be no concern for the running game? No way. I'm still scared to see what we look like against Philly. However, it is not as bad as it looks.

Yeah it's kind of an un-written rule, you know like blitzing 9/10 of the first defensive plays, like the Broncos and Steelers did against us. I know the Steelers didn't blitz that much but they did and we returned in kind. If you watch the pro-bowl, when the starters are in, that's almost how it should be played according to the un-written rules. When TP was going to lay Favre out against the Steelers, you could see him hold up because he is a class act. Unfortunately, some coaches take pre-season to mean a little more then it does and some starting players do as well. Over-all I think the players do a pretty good job of not trying to hurt anyone.

Our running game? If Jackson doesn't start making the right cuts and hitting the hole sooner, we are in trouble. He made the wrong read a few times last night and a few times he juked himself out of his jock for a loss.

[Rastak]

Passing game looked pretty good though....Favre had time....I'm guessing they'll be all kinds of funky blitzes in the regular season if teams believe the Pack can't run.

[retailguy]

Passing game looked pretty good though....Favre had time....I'm guessing they'll be all kinds of funky blitzes in the regular season if teams believe the Pack can't run.


BINGO! That's what worries me. A LOT. If you don't have to respect the run, you pare your ears back and come hard and fast.

Yeah, Favre can burn you, but not EVERY time.

We'll just have to see.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Teams didn't exactly respect our running game last year. We were 23rd in rushing yards and averaged 3.9 yards/carry. I'm hoping our OL will be better, Bubba and Lee bounce back a bit, Jennings stays healthy (well, all of the receivers but Jennings didn't last year), and Jones is for real. If we can put 20 points/game again this year, we may be solid if our defense plays like it should. Also, special teams needs to improve. I think it will.

[Rastak]

Teams didn't exactly respect our running game last year. We were 23rd in rushing yards and averaged 3.9 yards/carry. I'm hoping our OL will be better, Bubba and Lee bounce back a bit, Jennings stays healthy (well, all of the receivers but Jennings didn't last year), and Jones is for real. If we can put 20 points/game again this year, we may be solid if our defense plays like it should. Also, special teams needs to improve. I think it will.


Defense has been playing great and it sure looks like Jones is a real NFL receiver.....

[BallHawk]

Teams didn't exactly respect our running game last year. We were 23rd in rushing yards and averaged 3.9 yards/carry. I'm hoping our OL will be better, Bubba and Lee bounce back a bit, Jennings stays healthy (well, all of the receivers but Jennings didn't last year), and Jones is for real. If we can put 20 points/game again this year, we may be solid if our defense plays like it should. Also, special teams needs to improve. I think it will.


Defense has been playing great and it sure looks like Jones is a real NFL receiver.....

You think its fair to compare James Jones and Sidney Rice for the next few years?

[Rastak]

Teams didn't exactly respect our running game last year. We were 23rd in rushing yards and averaged 3.9 yards/carry. I'm hoping our OL will be better, Bubba and Lee bounce back a bit, Jennings stays healthy (well, all of the receivers but Jennings didn't last year), and Jones is for real. If we can put 20 points/game again this year, we may be solid if our defense plays like it should. Also, special teams needs to improve. I think it will.


Defense has been playing great and it sure looks like Jones is a real NFL receiver.....

You think its fair to compare James Jones and Sidney Rice for the next few years?


Yea, you can compare any guy you want from this draft class. It'll be interesting to examine what they do at the end of the year.

I like Rice's potential and I like what I've seen of Jones in the preseason.

[Guiness]

Don't know if I agree that their holding back on the cut blocking as a courtesy. Maybe if they'd been doing it a couple of years, knew they could execute it, etc. But this is our second season after using it a limited amount last year. So I think the coaches would want them to work on it and perfect it as much as possible.

More likely we just aren't going to use it as much as we all thought.

[RashanGary]

After seeing the Packers not cut block in the preseason, I'm holding out judgement on the run game untill 2 regular saason games are complete.

So far we know:

1. The pass game is good
2. The pass protection is good
3. The defense is really good
4. The ST's have been good
5. The running game is yet to be determined because we run a scheme that isn't practiced in the preseason


I think we have a pretty good team with the potential to be top 4 in the NFC or even SB competitive if a few things bounce our way.

[retailguy]

Teams didn't exactly respect our running game last year. We were 23rd in rushing yards and averaged 3.9 yards/carry. I'm hoping our OL will be better, Bubba and Lee bounce back a bit, Jennings stays healthy (well, all of the receivers but Jennings didn't last year), and Jones is for real. If we can put 20 points/game again this year, we may be solid if our defense plays like it should. Also, special teams needs to improve. I think it will.

Well statman, 23rd might look pretty good in week 5. we'll see. Last years stats are just like last years interest rates... A fond memory, or a not fond memory, but STILL a memory.

Why don't you calculate how "bad" our ranking would have been WITHOUT Ahman Green?

[Partial]

I was telling my brother the same thing last night. I notice we didn't do any cut
blocking until all starters and 2nd string defenders for the Jags where out. Sure enough the running game look better when White was running he had a cut back lane.

Not to pull an RG with the sarcasm, but this is too good of an opportunity!

I'm sure that had nothing to do with the two All-Pro tackles sitting on the bench then :D

[RashanGary]

RETAIL GUY SHOULD BE OPTIMISTIC RIGHT NOW!!

http://www.packerrats.com/ratchat/posting.php?mode=quote&p=137507



I'll develop some optimism when the line, after playing two pre-season games blocks well enough that Bubba can run ONE damn route and drop the ball... Until that point, I'm really worried.

.500 will be MAJOR MAJOR progress for this team with this schedule. That'll be a good replacement Super Bowl for me.

[RashanGary]

Funny how you say you were never concerned about the pass blocking ;) Admit it, some things about this Oline are better than you expected them. :)

[HarveyWallbangers]

I think Nick is overboard on his homerism right now, but this article points out something that he brought up here, so give him some credit for broaching the subject.


Unable to gain ground
By TOM SILVERSTEIN

Green Bay - The Green Bay Packers have traveled a long, winding road in their quest this summer to put a competent running game on the field.

And just 13 days before the season opener against Philadelphia the twists and turns keep coming, leaving the Packers' running game as hard to read as a wet map.

On Sunday, rookie Brandon Jackson went down hard after a collision with another player during a 2-minute drill, and after taking a few more snaps in a non-contact 7-on-7 drill was unable to finish practice. Jackson, according to other players, suffered a blow to the head that most thought wasn't serious.

After practice, however, the usually affable Jackson looked to be in a fog as he prepared to walk from his locker to the training room and did not respond to questions about his injury. Coach Mike McCarthy was unaware of the extent of Jackson's injury immediately after practice, so it's unclear whether Jackson suffered a concussion.

"Any time a guy lays down like that, that's not a positive sign," McCarthy said. "Hopefully he'll be OK."

If he has suffered a concussion, his status for the exhibition finale is in question, especially considering the extra attention head injuries are being given around the NFL after recent criticism aimed at the league. The Packers are generally conservative about allowing players who suffer head injuries back on the field, so there's no telling when he'll be back.

Even if the injury is minor, it's just another example of how tenuous and unsettled the Packers' running game remains.

With Jackson out, the only healthy running backs were veteran Noah Herron, rookie free agent Corey White and seventh-round pick DeShawn Wynn, who was making his first appearance in practice after missing 18 days with a strained right thigh muscle. Veteran Vernand Morency still hasn't practiced since hurting his knee the first day of camp and is a question mark for the start of the regular season.

Wynn's return is the best news the Packers have had with regard to their backfield in some time, but it's questionable whether he can make up enough ground in the next two weeks to be anything more than a complement come the start of the regular season. Though he looked heavier, the 5-foot-10 Wynn said he weighed in at 227 pounds, 6 pounds less than he weighed before he got injured.

"I felt pretty good," Wynn said. "It definitely felt good to get the runs in and get the football conditioning back in. Coach (Edgar) Bennett gave me a lot just to get prepared for the game Thursday. I think he's going to continue doing it the rest of the week, and I'm looking forward to getting those extra reps in against the defense in a game-time situation."

Wynn has better size and power than the 5-10, 212-pound Jackson, and yet moves almost as quickly. One thing he was able to do was stay on top of the offense while he was out, attending meetings daily and taking assignment quizzes before every game. He said he did not make many assignment errors in his first practice back.

The Packers need Wynn's help. In three exhibition games, they have averaged just 3.5 yards per carry and have only one rush of at least 20 yards. Jackson and White, the two leading rushers with 40 and 32 attempts, respectively, are both averaging 3.3 yards per carry.

"You have to have some concern," tackle Mark Tauscher said. "But it (working on the run game) is tough for what we do. You're not live tackling, you're not live cutting.

"With the system we have in place you want to always look good, but when you can't really cut a guy, you just want to get your reads and get in a good rhythm showing the running back where his reads are. We're not in mid-season form from a cutting standpoint. We have a ways to go."

Cut-blocking is a basic element of the zone run scheme and is used primarily on the back side of a run play to knock down pursuing defensive ends and tackles. It keeps those defenders from tying up the guards and center, whose job often is to push forward and block a linebacker.

Jacksonville slanted its defensive line so that it could rub out the guard and mess up the running lanes, essentially forcing the back to run outside the tackles every time. The Packers insist that if it were a regular-season game they would have done something to counter that strategy.

"We've got a very minimal part of the running game going on in the games," guard Daryn Colledge said. "We're doing fundamental stuff: outside, inside, left and right. When we have the ability to put in everything - we have our fakes and our counters and our nakeds (bootlegs) and our full run game - we'll have a lot more success in the run game.

"Right now people know we're running a very vanilla run game. Linebackers can just fill and fill and fill and it makes it real easy (to stop the run)."

Tauscher insisted that if the line did its job, the running back situation wouldn't be as dire as some perceive it to be. He said the experience of having all five starters together for the 2006 season would start to show benefits when the real games begin.

"I don't think there's any question we have our hands full and we're expected to be a lot better running the football," Tauscher said. "That will come with playing together and trusting each other a little more. I think you have to hold your judgment (in the exhibition season). I think we're going to be able to run the ball much more effectively than last year."

Maybe so, but time is running out to show it.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Some interesting things. Jackson has averaged 3.3 yards/carry this preseason. Ahman averaged 2.3 yards/carry in his limited playing time last preseason. Colts rookie RB Joseph Addai had 21 carrries for 32 yards (1.5 yards/carry) last preseason.

The running game won't be a strength, but I think it will be better than it has looked--provided Jackson and Morency stay healthy. I don't think we can expect it will be any better than last year though. We are going to have to win games with defense, special teams, and Favre and the passing game.

[RashanGary]

Thanks for posting that Harv. I watch the games mulitple times. I havn't seen any cut blocks so I started looking for them and still saw none. The backside is usually neutralized with the cut blocking but the backside has been killing us in preseason. Also, the zone scheme has somewhat smaller OLineman so it is important to have that extra tool to keep guys off balance and keep defenses from playing overly aggressive.

I think Tausch is speaking some truth. I think the run game will take off after they start cutting. The Olines gain will trickle through the whole offense. That has been my assertion all off season and it still is. I think we'll be a top 10 offense.