Why did Bush go #2?

[Guiness]

I've seen very little (ok, nothing!) written to say why Bush ended up in the #2 spot. Closest thing I saw was that Leigh S. must be quietly chuckling, because Bush fired him shortly before the draft.

Everyone knew Houston was talking to Mario, but most assumed it was a ploy to get leverage with Bush and his agent.

So why did Mario go #1? Did Houston actually feel he was a better player? Did they want their choice signed before the draft, and couldn't come to terms with Bush?

Did they make a 'need' pick. You just don't do that with the #1.

[oregonpackfan]

I can't help but feel Houston believed Bush might be carrying some baggage about his parents' house allegedly being financed by a sports agent.


Oregonpackfan

[RashanGary]

Bush and his family were involved with convicted felons. They were accepting money and gifts with the intetion that Bush would sign with them. When Bush told them "no" that he will not sign with them, they went public with everything that has gone down as to drag Bush with them.

Let's face it. Reggie Bush was not the brightest person to get involved in that crap. Also, he was asking for sick amounts of money that even he would have a hard time living up to.

I'm sure it was a little bit of everything but I'm sure his relationship with the convicted felon and his accepting of funds against NCAA rules didn't help.

[Tarlam!]

I think it was a combination of what I read.

1. Bush was "me first", Mario "team first"
2. Bush was compared to a fairy tale, Mario to Reggie White
3. RB last less longer than DE overall
4. Money.
5. Was the o-line ever really gonna be good enough for Reggie to flourish?
6. Intangibles.

If Mario busts, they will look like idiots, but I doubt that will be the case.

[KYPack]

There was one other point made by members of the Texans. They have a ton of firepower, but had a hard time holding late game leads. A pass rushing end might have made a huge difference in the Houston record last season.

They would pay MW less money and improve their team by a greater margin. It might be justification on the part of the Texans, but it does make sense.

The other factor is that Bush is basically a spot player. He needs to be used in match-ups, rather than every down. Houston would've had to pay a ton of their available cap for a situation guy.

When you add these points to Tar's list, the Williams pick makes some sense.

[Partial]

Mario Williams is a once every 5-10 year prospect who plays a much more impactful position than running back.

I think he's overrated. I question whether he made the two other linemen going in the first, or if all three of them combined made Mario look better than he is.

With that said, I think their were a slew of reasons with the first and foremost being money.

Here is my list
1. Money - he wanted too much guaranteed
2. Mario rated higher - even if Mario was higher, they'd still have gotten reggie because he will sell jerseys and fill seats.
3. Dominick Davis - best young backs in league
4. Scandal

[MJZiggy]

Bush will sell seats in the short run, but if he gets flattened every play because he has no line, the sales will taper off. If they build a team that starts winning, the stadium will sell out. When I got to Tampa, getting seats was a simple matter. By the time I left when they were winning, they would sell out the first day they were on sale.

[Partial]

Reliant Stadium is one of the harder stadiums to play in as I recall. I believe they're selling out every game regardless, and they are evidentally very rowdy and loud.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Why do some people on here think Bush is a "me first" guy? That's far from what he's shown. He split carries at USC with White. Unlike White, this didn't seem to bother him. He said during the season that--unlike Eli Manning--he'd play for any team. When asked during the draft if he was going to play for New Orleans, he said "of course I will, why wouldn't I?" This guy is getting a bad reputation among some in here, but he's not a bad kid at all. In fact, reading about him I feel like he has very good character. It's probably part of the reason the Packers made inquiries about trading up to get him.

[Tony Oday]

because the TExans saw how well Jamal Reynolds did for the Packers so they thought they would draft a DE in the first round. They forgot that his actual name is.....

SAM BOWIE!!!!!!


Yup the same guy that wwas picked ahead of Jordan...

[Scott Campbell]

Why do some people on here think Bush is a "me first" guy? That's far from what he's shown. He split carries at USC with White. Unlike White, this didn't seem to bother him. He said during the season that--unlike Eli Manning--he'd play for any team. When asked during the draft if he was going to play for New Orleans, he said "of course I will, why wouldn't I?" This guy is getting a bad reputation among some in here, but he's not a bad kid at all. In fact, reading about him I feel like he has very good character. It's probably part of the reason the Packers made inquiries about trading up to get him.


It's beginning to look like he and/or his family may have broken some NCAA rules, and USC's 04 national title may be in jeapordy. But I'm with you - I think he's basically a good kid. There's a big difference between breaking NCAA rules, and breaking the law.

[Guiness]

Interesting post mortem. I didn't know that those casino guys were felons. I wonder if that was his doing, or his parents not wanting to wait until he graduated to get their new house?

I didn't hear much about his contract demands - just that Mario got ~10% more than Smith, which seems like a hefty enough raise. I thought it was generally close to 4% every year. He thought he deserved a bigger jump, or more guaranteed?

[Scott Campbell]

Interesting post mortem. I didn't know that those casino guys were felons. I wonder if that was his doing, or his parents not wanting to wait until he graduated to get their new house?

I didn't hear much about his contract demands - just that Mario got ~10% more than Smith, which seems like a hefty enough raise. I thought it was generally close to 4% every year. He thought he deserved a bigger jump, or more guaranteed?

There's a new CBA this year which should account for much of the increase year over year in the rookie contracts.

[Guiness]

There's a new CBA this year which should account for much of the increase year over year in the rookie contracts.

Right. I meant to mention that.

The next step, of course, will be RB arguing that he shouldn't be slotted below MW because he was the 'real' #1, and trying to get a deal for more than Mario.

NO has a starting back, so this will of course last well into training camp, after the #3 is signed. Eventually, he gets slotted between them, Heisman or no damn Heisman.

[Guiness]

The other half of this question, did Houston actually have a #1 rank for MW?

I.E. did they want him enough to stay in the #1 spot, knowing NO would probably take him at #2 if they moved? You have to think there was a team out there willing to give them decent value to move to #1 for Bush, and give them value for it.

[FavreChild]

Reggie is a "me first" player because he literally said "ME - FIRST."

In interviews, he repeatedly asserted that he should go #1 in the draft and that he was the best player in football. Would not even entertain the notion that his teammate Matt Leinart could be the number-one pick, or a defensive player like Mario. He said, "The number-one pick - that's ME." And he wanted to be paid the highest amount of money ever for a number-one overall pick.

And although he split carries, he sure didn't split the glory.

Is he as good as his ego thinks he is? Maybe. Is Houston's O-line good enough to allow Bush the kind of production he's accustomed to? Maybe not.

I guess Houston opted to skip the headaches it would take to find out.

[GrnBay007]

I agree FC. And while there is a big difference in breaking NCAA rules and breaking the law, there is still that question of character in doing either. Usually where there's smoke, there's fire and why fork out an insane amount of money when there are questions arising.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Reggie is a "me first" player because he literally said "ME - FIRST."

In interviews, he repeatedly asserted that he should go #1 in the draft and that he was the best player in football. Would not even entertain the notion that his teammate Matt Leinart could be the number-one pick, or a defensive player like Mario. He said, "The number-one pick - that's ME." And he wanted to be paid the highest amount of money ever for a number-one overall pick.

And although he split carries, he sure didn't split the glory.

Is he as good as his ego thinks he is? Maybe. Is Houston's O-line good enough to allow Bush the kind of production he's accustomed to? Maybe not.

I guess Houston opted to skip the headaches it would take to find out.

So what? I didn't see the interview, but it doesn't sound like much to rip him on. I've seen other interviews and he seems like a good, personable kid.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Talking about Reggie Bush reminded me of something. Bush had 47 carries combined in the two games before the title game, and produced 554 rushing yards. Then, the Trojans only gave it to him 13 times in the title game. Poor coaching decision.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Does anybody know what he's done or known? Do you believe boosters aren't doing similar things all across the country? I think bigger penalties need to be laid on the boosters before it can be fixed.


Bush's image was Windex-clean with the Trojans. Articulate, bright and immensely talented, he was perceived as a national marketing campaign waiting to happen. Just yesterday, adidas announced a multiyear partnership with Bush.

In the coming weeks and months, Bush will sign a multiyear deal with the team that selects him. Most people around the league expect that to be the Texans, despite the recent controversy.

“Guys are going to go by the football and the character of the kid,” one prominent coach said. “The kid's got good character; now he may have made a bad decision on this deal, but it might be everyone involved with him, too.

“I'm sure if you're the owner this could affect you because you're talking about giving a kid $25 million (guaranteed). But from a football standpoint, I don't think it'll affect the guy. He loves practice, he loves to play, and he's almost too good to be true on the field. He apparently just made some bad choices.”

Bush draft status likely unaffected by situation
By Jim Trotter
UNION-TRIBUNE STAFF WRITER

Houston Texans owner Bob McNair said yesterday he has no reservations about selecting Heisman winner Reggie Bush with the first pick Saturday in the NFL draft.

“At this point in time, based upon what we know about Reggie, we're not aware of anything that would prevent us from picking him if we decide that's what we want to do,” McNair said by phone after arriving in New York for predraft functions.

It was thought for some time that Bush was a lock to go to the Texans, but a ray of doubt was cast on the situation after it was learned his family may have received improper benefits while he was still a member of the USC football team.

Further clouding the picture were court transcripts in which a local attorney stated that Bush had made an unspecified agreement with a fledgling sports marketing agency, the founders of which have long criminal backgrounds.

“Charley Casserly (Houston's general manager) spoke to Reggie today and Reggie said he did not enter into any type of agreement with an agent prior to the time that his season was over, so we accept what he tells us,” McNair said.

“He says he did not enter into an agreement with those people and that there will be more information coming out of it. I think you've got some disgruntled agents and marketing people that are stirring the pot.”

Asked if he is completely comfortable with Bush, McNair said: “Based on what we know. We'll wait and see after all the information comes in. At this point in time we have not seen anything that would prevent us from taking him if that's our decision.”

McNair said the Texans are conducting simultaneous negotiations with the agents for Bush and North Carolina State defensive end Mario Williams. He said the team had yet to decide whom it will select. Casserly said yesterday the Texans will take Bush or Williams with the first pick.

Based on comments from other owners and decision-makers around the league, the controversy surrounding Bush doesn't figure to hurt his status as long as he's not connected to any criminal activity. At the same time, they said the recent allegations raise questions about his judgment and might give pause to a club that has an image-conscious owner, the fear being that more serious allegations could arise in the future.

“If the house is all there is, there's no problem,” the owner of one club said, speaking on the condition his name not be used. “The other stuff shows – that shows bad judgment, if it's true. But as long as you can see that he's not running with those people or involved with something illegal, then I think he'd be OK.”

Said a front-office executive: “I think if you are the team in question, you really do have to do as much investigating as possible to find out if this is a guy who does have a questionable background, or if this is a guy who was just immature and making some pretty poor choices right now – personally, socially, certainly economically.

“Not that you could do much to help him with that at this point, but this is a guy who would make you step back and think, 'What exactly am I getting into?' I think you do that with everybody and anybody who flashes those types of situations.”

Bush's image was Windex-clean with the Trojans. Articulate, bright and immensely talented, he was perceived as a national marketing campaign waiting to happen. Just yesterday, adidas announced a multiyear partnership with Bush.

In the coming weeks and months, Bush will sign a multiyear deal with the team that selects him. Most people around the league expect that to be the Texans, despite the recent controversy.

“Guys are going to go by the football and the character of the kid,” one prominent coach said. “The kid's got good character; now he may have made a bad decision on this deal, but it might be everyone involved with him, too.

“I'm sure if you're the owner this could affect you because you're talking about giving a kid $25 million (guaranteed). But from a football standpoint, I don't think it'll affect the guy. He loves practice, he loves to play, and he's almost too good to be true on the field. He apparently just made some bad choices.”

[MJZiggy]

His situation reminds me of Walker. He may be fine, but he has stupid people all around him telling him what to do.

[FavreChild]

I couldn't care less that Reggie & Co. got booster money or whatever other perks. USC made miliions off this kid (their student).

All I'm saying is that the Texans obviously got a vibe (for lack of a better term) that Bush wasn't worth the hassle - monetary-wise, attitude-wise, the pressure to get him to perform immediately...whatever the case may be.

Maybe I'm the only one, but I'm glad we don't have to deal with any of that stuff. I did not want Reggie.

[MJZiggy]

I'm still figuring he gets injured by game 3.

[swede]

Talking about Reggie Bush reminded me of something. Bush had 47 carries combined in the two games before the title game, and produced 554 rushing yards. Then, the Trojans only gave it to him 13 times in the title game. Poor coaching decision.

Lateraling back only to fumble. There's another poor decision.



The Texans had been negotiating with this guy for some time. I think they got tired of lookig at a holdout unless they coughed up 30 mil in signing bonus. They opened up a dialogue with Mario and found out who they liked better at #1.

I cheered the deal out of simple meanness on my part. I hate the whole entourage thing among some athletes. And the Texan's decision may--or may have not--started a chain of events that gave us AJ.

[FavreChild]

I think my main problem with Bush is that I'm already sick of being force-fed his ESPN-manufactured superstar status. The hype machine is such a turn-off. And I'll admit, that isn't really his fault.

[HarveyWallbangers]

I think all of this is conjecture. I don't think there's anything to say this kid has less character than, say, Daryn Colledge. I heard some teams were put off by Colledge in interviews. To me, that's just conjecture. I haven't seen anything in Bush to vilify him.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Believe the hype. This kid is DAMN good. I haven't felt this good about a RB prospect since I watched Barry Sanders run for Oklahoma State back in the late 80s.

Check out the video:
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/teams/nor

It's the best highlight package you'll ever see. He catches as well as a wideout. He shows the toughness to run inside. In the open field, only Barry Sanders has been better. My wife knows nothing about football. I told her Bush has the "wow" factor. I made her watch his highlights, and she was literally like "wow, he's good." Watch it. This kid in unbelievable. Could he get injured? Sure. He's a little small, but he's worth the gamble.

[Merlin]

What I had heard, and it's been awhile, is that the Texans couldn't negotiate a contract with Bush and his agent. I don't remember seeing what the proposal was but some sources have said that he wanted some clauses in his contract regarding payment upon injury etc. that are not typical in an NFL contract. That's why players are urged to by injury insurance. How true that is, who knows.

I do believe that the Texan's took Williams because their defense stinks. Dominck Davis is a very good running back and even behind a horrible offensive line he still gets his yards. You do have to wonder if the scandal surrounding Bush had something to do with it though. There are other allegations around the USC football team to so maybe the Texan's wanted to avoid a media fest surrounding that which could ultimately take the teams focus away during camp.

I thought Williams contract was for 20 Million in guaranteed money. One wonders how that will affect Bush's contract. Who would pay the #2 pick more than the #1? How will that affect our negotiations with Hawk? I don't think Hawk will be a hold out, I think he will sign a good contract worth about 15-18 Million with only anout half guaranteed. He seems like a respectable guy who plays because he loves the game. On second thought, he better hold out because with that face, the only commercial endorsements he will get are for Preparation H!

[HarveyWallbangers]

The contract issue is another thing that is conjecture. I have doubts that the Texans passed on Bush because of a contract. I think they felt, for some odd reason, that Mario Williams was the best pick for them. If you listen to Charlie Casserly, he states that a contract had nothing to do with it. There have been rumors that the Texans didn't even offer Bush the contract they gave Williams. They determined about a week ago that Williams was the guy they seriously wanted. Would it really have taken much more than 6y/$54M with $26.5M guaranteed to get Bush?

On a side note: how do you not get anything for passing on Bush if you are the Texans? That was the worse move. Hey, if you felt Williams was better for your team, no problem? But they had a serious commodity, and didn't fully utilize it. At the very least, get something from New Orleans and still get Williams. It sounds like the Saints actually liked Hawk more than Williams, so they weren't going to trade up to grab Mario.

[Merlin]

I agree, the Texans could have negotiated that a lot better.

[Bossman641]

I'm with you Harvey. Reggie Bush is simply amazing. The things that he can do on a football field are just ridiculous. Rather than look at the things that Bush CANNOT do I think you need to look at the things he can do. He will cause matchup problems all over the field.

I actually don't think he will have injury problems. He is a little undersized but if you watch him he has a knack for avoiding big hits. Bush rarely ever allows a defender to hit him squarely.


I think he's a pretty good kid as well. He will be a star.

[HarveyWallbangers]

He's probably a tad under 6 feet tall and probably a ounce over 200 pounds, but he still put up 9 more reps on the bench than his much bigger college teammate, LenDale White. Bush did 24 reps at 225. White did 15. Laurence Maroney did 21. He's surprisingly strong for his size.

From Gil Brandt:

Bush is a player that everyone has been screaming about all season, and it's clear that he is an elite talent. He has good height for a running back and, while he is thinner than ideal for his height, within a season or two he will naturally add 10 pounds or so as all players do when they mature in their early 20s. Bush is similar to Marshall Faulk when he was a San Diego State star and he will be best utilized in the same type of role that Faulk has had in St. Louis. He is not going to be a running back in the NFL who gets 30-plus carries a game, but will eventually be able to handle 15-20 carries, 4-8 catches and return punts. Overall, Bush is going to make an immediate impact in the NFL with his ability to make game-changing plays once he is in the open field. While many people say you cannot risk using Bush as a returner, he is the type of returner who can change games and singlehandedly win the field position battle for his team.

[swede]

That's silly. You don't know that anybody going to #1 in a trade with Houston wouldn't have taken Mario. I would have!

[HarveyWallbangers]

That's silly. You don't know that anybody going to #1 in a trade with Houston wouldn't have taken Mario. I would have!

There are no guarantees, but considering how much New Orleans was demanding of teams that inquired about trading up and how eager they were to draft Bush, I doubt they would have taken Mario--especially since they were in dire need of a star in that city. Even if New Orleans had traded up to take Mario, Houston could have gotten value by trading down, and then they would have been able to take Bush (at a smaller contract). Or, they could have parlayed that into another trade down, and then taken the guy you really needed, D'Brickashaw Ferguson. They could have added several first day picks by doing this. They still would have gotten an elite prospect at a position of need, would be paying out a smaller contract to that prospect, and would have added several first day picks. Just plain stupid.

[Guiness]

That's the point I was trying to make HW. If Houston didn't want Bush, they damn well should've gotten out of that spot!

[HarveyWallbangers]

That's the point I was trying to make HW. If Houston didn't want Bush, they damn well should've gotten out of that spot!

Well, I totally agree with that. If they didn't really want Bush, they had some options:

1) Draft Mario Williams.

2) Trade down with New Orleans, get a first day pick (minimum).
a) New Orleans takes Reggie Bush. Draft Mario Williams, and get him at a lower salary will picking up valued pick(s).
b) New Orleans takes Mario Williams. Trade down with Tennessee or NY Jets, get a first day pick (minimum). Draft D'Brickashaw Ferguson.

I think they could have come out with these possible scenarios:

1) Mario Williams or
2) Mario Williams (while paying less for him) plus at least a first day pick, or
3) D'Brickashaw Ferguson (while paying less for him) plus at least two first day picks.

I think they ended up with the least appealing of the options.

[AKfaust]

I would have loved for the Packers to have had the chance to draft Bush. The guy's football talent is just out of this world. Thats what this is all about. He would be worth every $ you gave him. The world is full of scum agents/grifters, hangers on who will try and make a fortune off guys like him, comes with the turf. He'll get some wisdon along the way...at least you would hope so. Bush has the power to bring NO back from the DEAD! That's something. In many ways I think Bush got lucky Houston picked Mario instead...I would rather play in an LA swamp than a Texan one any day.

[TennesseePackerBacker]

I honestly see no reason why they passed on Bush. I'd rather blame it on conspiracy theory and conjecture than the reasons we have been given. The fact is Reggie Bush is simply amazing, against college athletes, we never got to see him in a college all-star game or a senior bowl. The Pac-10 really didnt have any strong defensive teams like the SEC Big 10 and ACC. I doubt he'll be as good in the NFL against all all-star college players than just the average defenses of the Pac-10, but his highlight tape is certainly amazing, and in the last 10-20 years, maybe since Herschel Walker, I haven't seen a college tailback dominate that much on just 20 carries a game.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Herschel was sweet in college. Barry Sanders was out of this world in college too.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Bush overwhelmed by city's warm welcome
By Len Pasquarelli, ESPN.com

Compared to the massive effort it will take to rebuild the city of New Orleans and the Gulf Coast, the remaking of the New Orleans Saints is a trivial pursuit. But the arrival of Heisman Trophy tailback Reggie Bush over the weekend provided those faced with the former formidable task to consider the latter efforts more than simply an afterthought.

Through the few good times and the mostly miserable seasons of the Saints' four-decade existence, one undeniable constant has been the manner in which the city has embraced its football team. On Saturday and Sunday, it wrapped its arms around Bush, who did nothing to elude the symbolic mantle bestowed upon him by virtually everyone he met in what will become his adopted hometown.

And just like that, the first chapter was authored in what could be the best feel-good story of the 2006 season, and perhaps beyond.

"To tell you the truth, it was a little overwhelming, and I really didn't expect it," Bush said of the rock-star welcome afforded him. "But after seeing some of the devastation here, so much worse than you can imagine even after watching it on TV, you gain some appreciation for what these people have been through and what they're still facing.

"Hey, I'm no savior, and I can't make everything better. But I want to do my part. I know now that I'm coming here to be more than just a football player. The people immediately made me a part of the community and I'm going to do my share. This really was an eye-opener for me. But it was very uplifting in a way."

[swede]

Well when Bush doesn't produce on the field in his first year I don't want to hear that he needs a little time to develop or that his offensive line isn't good enough. You all make him sound like a superhuman athlete. Check out Ricky Williams, Herschel Walker, and Kijana Carter as former superhumans.

If I have a chance to take the next Barry Sanders or a dominant DE I'm taking the dominant DE.

How many Super Bowls for Barry?

Yeah, Reggie Bush may be a star and he may sell tickets but New Orleans still won't win more than eight games this year.

[HarveyWallbangers]

How many Super Bowls for Barry?

That's a little silly. How many Super Bowls for Bruce Smith and Julius Peppers? I don't think Deacon Jones won any Super Bowls. Reggie won one Super Bowl, and he was the best ever. You need a team to contend for the title. Having a dominant DE doesn't guarantee anything--just like having a dominant RB doesn't.

[Scott Campbell]

How many Super Bowls for Barry?


A better question might be how have the Lions fared over the last 20 years with Barry, and without Barry.

[K-town]

How many Super Bowls for Barry?

That's a little silly. How many Super Bowls for Bruce Smith and Julius Peppers? I don't think Deacon Jones won any Super Bowls. Reggie won one Super Bowl, and he was the best ever. You need a team to contend for the title. Having a dominant DE doesn't guarantee anything--just like having a dominant RB doesn't.

By my count, I have 4 Super Bowls (appearances) for Bruce Smith and 1 Super Bowl for Julius Peppers. I doubt Buffalo makes more than one Super Bowl without Bruce Smith. Peppers made the Panthers into a dominant defensive team in his first two seasons.
But, you're right. It's a team game. If anything, having a dominant PERSONNEL guy guarantees you success - Scott Pioli (?spelling?), Ron Wolf, Bobby Beathard (in his prime), etc.

[Guiness]

Carmen Policy won SF a couple w/o ever lacing them up.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Walter and Barry played on crappy teams. Jim Brown played on championship caliber teams. So did Marshall Faulk.

This isn't basketball. You can't really use Super Bowl titles as a criteria too much--outside of QBs. Even Brett Favre, as great as he's been, at a position so important, only has 1 title.

[mraynrand]

"Carmen Policy won SF a couple w/o ever lacing them up."
---------
And he and Dwight Clark did a heck of a job in Cleveland. Maybe Walsh (and the players themselves) had something to do with the success of the 49ers too.

Football is a team sport like no other, from the ownership on down to the weight trainers (sorry - "strength and conditioning coaches").

[KYPack]

"Carmen Policy won SF a couple w/o ever lacing them up."
---------
And he and Dwight Clark did a heck of a job in Cleveland. Maybe Walsh (and the players themselves) had something to do with the success of the 49ers too.



Yeah, of lying, cheating and breaking the rules.

Those two sumbitches should have been tossed out of the league for all their underhanded shit they did when they worked SF's front office. They didn't get that out of control with the Browns, but their shenanigans with the 49ers was a disgrace to the league.

It's kinda too bad. if Clark could have worked with somebody decent instead of that lying Mob lawyer Carmen Policy, I think he'd have been a decent capable executive in the league.