Ahman!

[LEWCWA]

Anybody watch him carve up the Cowgirls in the first half?

[Bretsky]

NO SURPRISED AT ALL HERE

WE WILL GREATLY MISS AHMAN

[Freak Out]

And how much are we under the cap right now?

[Harlan Huckleby]

Green broke a 46 yard run. Was 7-19 on other runs.

[Partial]

And how much are we under the cap right now?

Enough to afford Ahman twice and then some. Maybe we should have just signed him. Steve Slaton, Ray Rice or Darren McFadden sure would be nice conselation prices for letting him go, though.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Green has had a fairly crappy preseason. And a crappy night tonight other than one run. He breaks a 46 yarder and people suddenly have him back in his 2003 form.

Lets see how season goes. Jackson could be outperforming Green by November.

[Bretsky]

And how much are we under the cap right now?


13,000,000

[Bretsky]

Green has had a fairly crappy preseason. And a crappy night tonight other than one run. He breaks a 46 yarder and people suddenly have him back in his 2003 form.

Lets see how season goes. Jackson could be outperforming Green by November.


So he was 8 rushes for 65 yards. Whether he broke one or not any coach will take that.

Nobody thinks he's as good as 2003; but many do feel we'd be much much better off with Green, Jackson, and Morency and should have signed Green "before" free agency began.

[Harlan Huckleby]

many do feel we'd be much much better off with Green, Jackson, and Morency and should have signed Green "before" free agency began.

ya, well its certainly true that TT should have gotten SOME free agent.

Its too hard to know if Green would have been willing to sign before free agency, obviously it would have been a mistake from his standpoint.

[LL2]

And how much are we under the cap right now?


13,000,000

Being this far under with no worthy FA signing has to be a thorn in your side. It'll grow to 35,000,000 next year and you'll still have your sig.

[GBRulz]

NO SURPRISED AT ALL HERE

WE WILL GREATLY MISS AHMAN

:tup:

If I remember correctly, most everyone had hoped that we could find a way to keep Ahman. Then came the offer Houston put on the table for him and many decided he wasn't worth it. Whether you agree or not that he was worth the money, can you honestly say that you are happier with our RB situation vs having a Pro Bowl back with experience, power and speed?

Every one of us has something different on what we liked or didn't like about the off-season, draft, etc.... I guess it's safe to assume that letting Green go was the biggest thorn in my side. It's not even just that...it's that nobody else was brought in. I know, I know ....."we're happy with what we have and we clearly feel there isn't anyone else better out there"

I wish Ahman nothing but the best this year

[MJZiggy]

And how much are we under the cap right now?


13,000,000

That was before we cut Fergy. Now it's 15,000,000.

[falco]

I was watching some of those game clips from last year. Ahman had some good bursts. Morency also had a few good runs.

I'd feel better with Ahman here, but he's not. What would really help right now is for Morency to get healthy. At least then we'll have some more options.

[RashanGary]

Green is a slighty above average back at this point in his career. A good player but hardly a playmaker and hardly irreplacable (and a fumbler). I'm not a huge Morency fan like some but the drop off from Green to Morency at this point in both of their careers is a lot smaller than people here let on IMO. Good for Green, he got his money and probably has one more good year left. We have a young back who will be here for the next 8 years, a 2nd RB that will be here for 5 years and a GM who will draft the next great running back if he appears to us. If the NFL ended and shut down at the end of the season it would have been nice to get Green but that small short term gain that everyone panics about helps far less than the harsh long term loss. Imagine if we did yesterday what people propose we do today, we wouldn't have options today ;) You have to find a way to maximize the cap and get more talent than anyone esle. Wasting money hurts.

[falco]

Wasting money hurts.

Some would argue we're doing just that by not spending it.

[Scott Campbell]

NO SURPRISED AT ALL HERE

WE WILL GREATLY MISS AHMAN

:tup:

If I remember correctly, most everyone had hoped that we could find a way to keep Ahman. Then came the offer Houston put on the table for him and many decided he wasn't worth it. Whether you agree or not that he was worth the money, can you honestly say that you are happier with our RB situation vs having a Pro Bowl back with experience, power and speed?

Every one of us has something different on what we liked or didn't like about the off-season, draft, etc.... I guess it's safe to assume that letting Green go was the biggest thorn in my side. It's not even just that...it's that nobody else was brought in. I know, I know ....."we're happy with what we have and we clearly feel there isn't anyone else better out there"

I wish Ahman nothing but the best this year


Maybe Ted has a plan for replacing Ahman - drafting 2 RB's a year until he hits on a guy.

Unless Ahman morphs into the second coming of John Riggins, I think Ted did the right thing in letting him go. But Green was a great Packer.

[Packnut]

Green is a slighty above average back at this point in his career. A good player but hardly a playmaker and hardly irreplacable (and a fumbler). I'm not a huge Morency fan like some but the drop off from Green to Morency at this point in both of their careers is a lot smaller than people here let on IMO. Good for Green, he got his money and probably has one more good year left. We have a young back who will be here for the next 8 years, a 2nd RB that will be here for 5 years and a GM who will draft the next great running back if he appears to us. If the NFL ended and shut down at the end of the season it would have been nice to get Green but that small short term gain that everyone panics about helps far less than the harsh long term loss. Imagine if we did yesterday what people propose we do today, we wouldn't have options today ;) You have to find a way to maximize the cap and get more talent than anyone esle. Wasting money hurts.

Man, are you EVER gonna wake up? Will you EVER let a player PRODUCE before telling us how great they are? For your info Jackson and Morency have done NOTHING. Green has proven himself and he might have 2 or 3 good years left. You slant everything to fit your opinion which really is nothing but blind loyalty to Teddy.

For the record, I thought Green was getting to much cash, but I did like Henry a whole lot. We'll see what our guys do as compared to Henry and a few others.

[RashanGary]

Some would argue we're doing just that by not spending it.

I understand that. I think Thompson believes in making a bunch of good football decisions, making good drafts, finding undrafted guys, bringing in a UFA or two once in a while. The problem is that we had a bunch of bad drafts in a row. We really didn't get too many players to pay. Now we don't know what to do with our money and we have to push it forward. In couple of years (assmuing Thompson drafts well) we'll spend our money and we'll have extra money becuase of what we're pushing forward now. That won't be the case in a couple years when Hawk, Jennings, Colledge, Collins, Poppinga, Rodgers, Spitz, Moll, Jackson, Jones, Crosby, Harrell, Jolly and others start needing paydays. For now though, we're sort of stuck with the team Sherman gave us and TT doesn't believe in making another mistake to fix the original mistake. He'd rather wait until a real solution comes along. It's not the fastest way, but I believe it's a method that will allow for more talent under the cap and the best shot at a SB.

[RashanGary]

Man, are you EVER gonna wake up? Will you EVER let a player PRODUCE before telling us how great they are? For your info Jackson and Morency have done NOTHING. Green has proven himself and he might have 2 or 3 good years left. You slant everything to fit your opinion which really is nothing but blind loyalty to Teddy.

For the record, I thought Green was getting to much cash, but I did like Henry a whole lot. We'll see what our guys do as compared to Henry and a few others.

I like Henry a lot too. I didn't know how much he had left, but he looks like the regular Travis Henry in Denver. As much as you want the whole story to be told in one seasons work, the NFL doesn't really work that way. Decisions are ultimately judged over the whole coarse of it's influence. I know you can't understand taht becuase we've tried these discussions before so we just have to agree to disagree.

[Packnut]

Man, are you EVER gonna wake up? Will you EVER let a player PRODUCE before telling us how great they are? For your info Jackson and Morency have done NOTHING. Green has proven himself and he might have 2 or 3 good years left. You slant everything to fit your opinion which really is nothing but blind loyalty to Teddy.

For the record, I thought Green was getting to much cash, but I did like Henry a whole lot. We'll see what our guys do as compared to Henry and a few others.

I like Henry a lot too. I didn't know how much he had left, but he looks like the regular Travis Henry in Denver. As much as you want the whole story to be told in one seasons work, the NFL doesn't really work that way. Decisions are ultimately judged over the whole coarse of it's influence. I know you can't understand taht becuase we've tried these discussions before so we just have to agree to disagree.

No, Ted Thompson does'nt work that way. The rest of the NFL does.

[Bretsky]

And how much are we under the cap right now?


13,000,000

Being this far under with no worthy FA signing has to be a thorn in your side. It'll grow to 35,000,000 next year and you'll still have your sig.


:bclap: :bclap: :bclap: :bclap: :bclap: :bclap: :bclap: :bclap:

[Bretsky]

NO SURPRISED AT ALL HERE

WE WILL GREATLY MISS AHMAN

:tup:

If I remember correctly, most everyone had hoped that we could find a way to keep Ahman. Then came the offer Houston put on the table for him and many decided he wasn't worth it. Whether you agree or not that he was worth the money, can you honestly say that you are happier with our RB situation vs having a Pro Bowl back with experience, power and speed?

Every one of us has something different on what we liked or didn't like about the off-season, draft, etc.... I guess it's safe to assume that letting Green go was the biggest thorn in my side. It's not even just that...it's that nobody else was brought in. I know, I know ....."we're happy with what we have and we clearly feel there isn't anyone else better out there"

I wish Ahman nothing but the best this year


Once Fred Taylor signed for the money that he received, it was apparent to me that the chances of losing Ahman Green with TT as the GM were very real.

That really was the current market deal TT should have been working off of if he wanted to keep Green.

As it turns out, to even my surprise, Green got a better deal than Fred Taylor.

That is why it was so necessary to CLOSE a deal before free agency.

[RashanGary]

No, Ted Thompson does'nt work that way. The rest of the NFL does.


panicnut, it's all going to be told over time. You have your opinions. I think they are rediculous. I have mine and you think they are rediculous. I don't know how likely you are to be convinced of anything I say but I can tell you that the odds of me being convinced of the idiocy that spews from your mouth is little to none. I think our discussions are a pretty big waste of time right now.

[Bretsky]

Some would argue we're doing just that by not spending it.

The problem is that we had a bunch of bad drafts in a row. We really didn't get too many players to pay. Now we don't know what to do with our money and we have to push it forward. In couple of years (assmuing Thompson drafts well) we'll spend our money and we'll have extra money becuase of what we're pushing forward now. That won't be the case in a couple years when Hawk, Jennings, Colledge, Collins, Poppinga, Rodgers, Spitz, Moll, Jackson, Jones, Crosby, Harrell, Jolly and others start needing paydays. For now though, we're sort of stuck with the team Sherman gave us and TT doesn't believe in making another mistake to fix the original mistake. He'd rather wait until a real solution comes along. It's not the fastest way, but I believe it's a method that will allow for more talent under the cap and the best shot at a SB.

We don't have to push any money forward; I don't understand what you are saying there. That's TT's choice. Hard to argue that IMO


Stuck with the team Sherman left us. TT has cleaned out nearly all of Sherman's players. We're left with nothing but TT draft picks (mostly a good thing) and the multitude of draft picks he has brought in.

Too many want to give TT a free pass by playing the Sherman card. TT has been here a few years now.

The only players from Sherman years we are stuck with are Chad Clifton, Mark Tauscher, Scott Wells, Bubba Franks, Donald Driver, Cullen Jenkins, Nick Barnett, Al Harris, and Corey Williams.

You could add Ahman Green but we let him walk out of here and into free agency with no return.

I'd add Javon Walker, but since TT traded him away Sherman at least gets some credit for the draft picks Javon Walker brought.

Not a bad start from those Sherman years.

[Bretsky]

Man, are you EVER gonna wake up? Will you EVER let a player PRODUCE before telling us how great they are? For your info Jackson and Morency have done NOTHING. Green has proven himself and he might have 2 or 3 good years left. You slant everything to fit your opinion which really is nothing but blind loyalty to Teddy.

For the record, I thought Green was getting to much cash, but I did like Henry a whole lot. We'll see what our guys do as compared to Henry and a few others.

I like Henry a lot too. I didn't know how much he had left, but he looks like the regular Travis Henry in Denver. As much as you want the whole story to be told in one seasons work, the NFL doesn't really work that way. Decisions are ultimately judged over the whole coarse of it's influence. I know you can't understand taht becuase we've tried these discussions before so we just have to agree to disagree.


With Henry already receiving strike one on the drug policy, it would have required some real stones to sign him.

[falco]

Too bad some of the cap room couldn't have been used to extend Walker....

[RashanGary]

What I mean when I say stuck with the team Sherman gave us is that Thompson can't go out and force good decisions. Great teams are built over multiple years of good decisions, not just one off season. Also, the decisions to irresponsibly spend money help some now but hurt down the road just like when Sherm was in office. Thompson is about making good decisions for many years in a row just like the other championship teams. Unfortunately, people don't like the "many years in a row" part when you team has only strung together 2 or 3. I think you are going to have to be patient but I see that you are not going to be so it is what it is, B.

[Bretsky]

Too bad some of the cap room couldn't have been used to extend Walker....


I'd bet that was a choice TT might make knowing what he does now.

To Ted Thompson's credit, he admits to making mistakes in the JW process.
He didn't give up any specifics or say what he'd have done differently, but I give him credit for at least owning up.

[Bretsky]

What I mean when I say stuck with the team Sherman gave us is that Thompson can't go out and force good decisions. Great teams are built over multiple years of good decisions, not just one off season. Also, the decisions to irresponsibly spend money help some now but hurt down the road just like when Sherm was in office. Thompson is about making good decisions for many years in a row just like the other championship teams. Unfortunately, people don't like the "many years in a row" part when you team has only strung together 2 or 3. I think you are going to have to be patient but I see that you are not going to be so it is what it is, B.


Yup, you are exactly right; it sucks being an instant gratification kind of guy :lol:

[Harlan Huckleby]

This is a comment from Mr. Obvious, but you really can't judge the Ahman Green decision this year. He signed a 5 year contract (if memory serves), so that means Houston has to get good value out of him for 2 or 3 years.

Right now, losing Ahman looks bad, real bad. I think the VERY soonest we could evaluate is November, December when we see how Jackson and Green have developed and/or held up.

[Him8123]

well I just say Ahman`s gone not coming back. Loved him while he was here, great packer. But he`s gone, lets move on and give Jackson a chance.

[Scott Campbell]

This is a comment from Mr. Obvious, but you really can't judge the Ahman Green decision this year. He signed a 5 year contract (if memory serves), so that means Houston has to get good value out of him for 2 or 3 years.

Right now, losing Ahman looks bad, real bad. I think the VERY soonest we could evaluate is November, December when we see how Jackson and Green have developed and/or held up.


I think the outcome is somewhat irrelevent to the decision. That would be like crowning the lottery winner as brilliant for their purchase of the winning ticket. Sometimes stupid gambles turn out lucky.

Outcomes are always in doubt, so the real question should be IMO - was it a good bet, or not?

Based on his age, injuries, mileage, asthma, and history of the RB position productivity tailing off when a player gets over 30 - I think it was a good bet.

[Bretsky]

This is a comment from Mr. Obvious, but you really can't judge the Ahman Green decision this year. He signed a 5 year contract (if memory serves), so that means Houston has to get good value out of him for 2 or 3 years.
Right now, losing Ahman looks bad, real bad. I think the VERY soonest we could evaluate is November, December when we see how Jackson and Green have developed and/or held up.


Well, kind of true....except....my guess is knowing he was going to continue to hibernate over free agents, TT very well might have frontloaded that deal to hit this year's cap VERY Hard and use up it's space (much like Woodsen last year when we were left with so much money cap money to spend and not much to spend it on) and remain completely flexible for the future.

I'd have been fine by that; I think the TT lovers would be singing his praises as well for all that lovable money to spend sometime later

[cpk1994]

Wasting money hurts.

Some would argue we're doing just that by not spending it.

Then those people should go be vikings fans becuase they spend money like it is going out of style. Too bad many consider them to be worse then the Pack right now.

[4and12to12and4]

We should've resigned, allowing him to become the all-time rusher. He deserved it, and we screwed him. He IS much better than any back we have, and has at least two to three years left barring injury. We had and still have the money, so give me a reason to sit on it and let the guy go? Because he's not worth it? If you had 50,000 dollars to buy a car, and the only car you could buy was 42,000, but you thought it was only worth 31,000, would you take the money to you're grave with you and never spend it and ride a bike to work every day? Hmmm.

[Him8123]

what kind of bike are we talking here. I mean if it`s a Schwinn or a huffy thats a tough choice

[MJZiggy]

well I just say Ahman`s gone not coming back. Loved him while he was here, great packer. But he`s gone, lets move on and give Jackson a chance.

:bclap: :bclap: :bclap: :clap:

Go Brandon!!!

[RashanGary]

This is a comment from Mr. Obvious, but you really can't judge the Ahman Green decision this year. He signed a 5 year contract (if memory serves), so that means Houston has to get good value out of him for 2 or 3 years.

Right now, losing Ahman looks bad, real bad. I think the VERY soonest we could evaluate is November, December when we see how Jackson and Green have developed and/or held up.

I agree. I also think each little decision weighs, in sometimes unexpected ways, on the big picture as far as how this team did or didn't give itself the oppertunity for a SB run. Letting Green go probably will hurt short term. I tend to think it will be OK in the long term.

Overtime, there will be small effects of each decision that impacts the next 6-10 years in GB. For example, losing the guards hurt badly for one year, hurt some for a second year and now looks to be fixed for a long time. On an 8 year scale, the first two were bad and the last 6 seem good. That is acctually one of Thompsons worst situations, but when you look at his worste move with the big picture light cast on it, it doesn't look bad. Same goes iwth the RB. The first year this might be a negative, but over the course of Greens contract is it going to look the same. Who's to say we don't draft a RB in the first round next year and Jackson becomes a damn good back? It's just up in the air right now. Completely up in the air.

There are short term answers and there are long term answers. I tend to have patients to wait for the long term answers becuase I think you can get in a situation where if you find 4 long term asnwers per year, they build up better because they last longer. The short term ones, you are patching now and then patching again a year or two down the road. You take a step forward only to find a step back a year down the road. Sherman didn't find a lot of long term so nothing really started steam rolling. He acctually had us rolling backwards partly becuase of where he was drafting but you have ot have the vision to take a big picture approach even if it hurts for a year. If Sherman had been more patient, we would have lost a game or two more one year but it might have found the real answer the following year. You just can't let desperation rule all decisions.

Over time the team is being built the way Thompson wants it. This year we are going to see the start of what Thompson assembled. The next 5 years are going to define Thompsons stay as GM in Green Bay. It's a big wait and see.

[PackerTimer]

We should've resigned, allowing him to become the all-time rusher. He deserved it, and we screwed him. He IS much better than any back we have, and has at least two to three years left barring injury. We had and still have the money, so give me a reason to sit on it and let the guy go? Because he's not worth it? If you had 50,000 dollars to buy a car, and the only car you could buy was 42,000, but you thought it was only worth 31,000, would you take the money to you're grave with you and never spend it and ride a bike to work every day? Hmmm.

Well, I would never pay 42,000 for a 31,000 dollar car thats for sure.

[Scott Campbell]

..........would you take the money to you're grave with you and never spend it..........


I don't think your analogy works. Much of the money that Ahman would have got will eventually be spent on another player(s). Or car in your example. So nobody will be riding a bike.

[Him8123]

the players ride bikes in camp

[run pMc]

Hated to see Ahman go, but he's gone and I wish him well. For the record, I think he has at most 2 good years left. He's on the downside of 30, he's had a bad leg injury, and he's a punishing-style runner. I'm not saying he's going to turn into Eddie George overnight, but I don't think he'll last the length of his contract, which was pretty good one (for him) considering the above factors. I think he wanted to test FA, and I think TT wanted to let him to see what offers were out there. My guess is that between Sherman being down there, HOU having even less RB talent than GB, plus they're desperate to win with a barely tested backup in Schaub...so they needed a RB.
I was hoping we'd sign Henry...I wonder though, for as productive and tough as he played in BUF, why it seemed like some teams wouldn't touch him. I wonder if he's a cancer in the locker room?
As for the 4 game suspension thing, TT signed K-Rob...and IIRC that was after he got stopped by the cops in MN.
I'd like to see Morency healthy and see what kind of 1-2 punch they've got. Yeah, it's still early, but it's still a concern. There isn't anybody out there right now, maybe after the cuts there will be somebody. Unless something dramatic happens, I think TT upgrades the RB spot via next year's draft.

[4and12to12and4]

..........would you take the money to you're grave with you and never spend it..........


I don't think your analogy works. Much of the money that Ahman would have got will eventually be spent on another player(s). Or car in your example. So nobody will be riding a bike.

I hope you're right. Maybe TT knows where this money is going, but if it remains unspent ... well?

[RashanGary]

On a completely different note, I'm considering moving to Alaska and surveying land in 9 mos as I finish school. Most people in my class would never consider leaving the security of the town they grew up or do the work that I am going to be potentially doing. I like being outside though. I'm a smart guy, I dont' have to work physically but it invigorates me. I like the idea of being on foot in some of our country's last unmapped land. The big kicker is that I can make a lot of money and get experience in all aspects of surveying land. If I was a surveyor here, I'd be at a firm doing one thing all day. There I will get to do it all. I'll be able to bank some bills (yeah, that pays off later), be in a new environment, get some hard work (yeah, it's like riding a bike to work) and get experience that is an investment in myself. When I come back to this state, I intend on opening a buisness that is run by my wife and I. Right now our kids our young so we she will stay home and be the mother she enjoys being and in 8 years we might team up to have our own buisness. There is some short term sacrafice in my long term life goals, but I'm OK with that. I feel good about workign hard and taking risks. I want to look back and say I gave it everythign I had and that I wasn't affraid to do it my way. I hate to get into my life goals and then relate them to Thompson, but that is what I think he is doing. He believes in oppertunism and getting the real long term anser instead of the short term fix (I think it's similar to some of my sacrafices by moving to Alaska). He looks like he is getting beat up now, but he believes in himself and he enjoys the challenge. It might seem like hell to all of you, but it's just getting down to buisness for him and the joy he gets is that he feels he is doing the right thing. I'll bet that the people who are along side him will look back on what they went through and feel pretty good about everything they did. Some of the most rewarding things in life are the riskiest and hardest to do. I respect Thompson a lot. I acctually live my life a similar way and I share his inability to relate to poeple or communicate so that just makes him more likable to me.

When I'm out in Alaska, people will be saying "I'd never do that, good for him" but when my life is done and I look back on the big picutre, I think my wife and I will have fondness for the work we put in and the risks we took. I think my kids will see parents who were willing to stand by what they believe and take risks. They'll have adusted to moving and seeing different cultures within our country. Whatever, it might not be that deep and Thompson might jsut be an idiot that has no idea what he's doing but he might be a guy who doesn't mind getting his hands dirty and likes the rush of success and accomplishment more than he likes the comfort of doing it the easy way. Remember, doing it the easy way will just keep you on plane with everyoen else. This is the NFL, you need to be the best of 32. You have to find a way to be better than everyone else, not just on par.

[Him8123]

well good luck, get some chains for them tires on that bike all that snow and stuff.

[RashanGary]

well good luck, get some chains for them tires on that bike all that snow and stuff.

haha, thanks. That's the least of it. I'm going to be out there with a guy or two doing some pretty hard work. It's almost as bad as going into your first season without two OG's :)

[4and12to12and4]

Well, here's to taking risks and living out of the realms of fear. Go for it, I wish you well. I hope you have the NFL ticket up there, or you're gonna miss the whole damn season!

[RashanGary]

Well, here's to taking risks and living out of the realms of fear. Go for it, I wish you well. I hope you have the NFL ticket up there, or you're gonna miss the whole damn season!

Thanks. I'm sort of excited but I know there will be tough days. I don't want to come off like I think it's a walk in the park. It's going to be hard as hell some days. I always look back on hard work and feel good about it though. Maybe I should be, but I'm not affraid of it.

[Scott Campbell]

..........would you take the money to you're grave with you and never spend it..........


I don't think your analogy works. Much of the money that Ahman would have got will eventually be spent on another player(s). Or car in your example. So nobody will be riding a bike.

I hope you're right. Maybe TT knows where this money is going, but if it remains unspent ... well?



It may go unspent this year. But Ahman got what - a 5 year deal? Much of of years 2-5 money will be spent.

[LEWCWA]

I believe he lost 6 yards on his first run. I was watching him for a couple series and he was breaking tackles and turning nothing into 3-4 yards. The guy is still a good runner and we will miss him alot....

[4and12to12and4]

yeah, he definitely still has the power and elusiveness. Let's just hope he fumbles every game. That will make the move much smarter.

[Bretsky]

..........would you take the money to you're grave with you and never spend it..........


I don't think your analogy works. Much of the money that Ahman would have got will eventually be spent on another player(s). Or car in your example. So nobody will be riding a bike.


You'd have to walk everywhere for about six months, and then you can lease a car for a while to maximize your potential to buy a better car next year

[TopHat]

I believe he lost 6 yards on his first run. I was watching him for a couple series and he was breaking tackles and turning nothing into 3-4 yards. The guy is still a good runner and we will miss him alot....

Yup, against Dallas, AG racked 8 yards for 65 yds & Gado got 4 for 32 yds, both totaling above the total rushing yards for the Pack against the Jags. That speaks for itself.

[Lurker64]

I believe he lost 6 yards on his first run. I was watching him for a couple series and he was breaking tackles and turning nothing into 3-4 yards. The guy is still a good runner and we will miss him alot....

Yup, against Dallas, AG racked 8 yards for 65 yds & Gado got 4 for 32 yds, both totaling above the total rushing yards for the Pack against the Jags. That speaks for itself.

Am I to conclude that TT made two mistakes because the Jags staunch run defense also moonlights in Dallas, or am I to conclude that the Dallas run defense just isn't that good so as good as Ahman looked against them, it's not saying much?

[mraynrand]

Green broke a 46 yard run. Was 7-19 on other runs.

After the 46 yard run, did some guy named Davenport come in and run three times for 2 yards, forcing a FG attempt, while Ahman caught his breath?

[mraynrand]

On a completely different note, I'm considering moving to Alaska and surveying land in 9 mos as I finish school. Most people in my class would never consider leaving the security of the town they grew up or do the work that I am going to be potentially doing. I like being outside though. I'm a smart guy, I dont' have to work physically but it invigorates me. I like the idea of being on foot in some of our country's last unmapped land. The big kicker is that I can make a lot of money and get experience in all aspects of surveying land. If I was a surveyor here, I'd be at a firm doing one thing all day. There I will get to do it all. I'll be able to bank some bills (yeah, that pays off later), be in a new environment, get some hard work (yeah, it's like riding a bike to work) and get experience that is an investment in myself. When I come back to this state, I intend on opening a buisness that is run by my wife and I. Right now our kids our young so we she will stay home and be the mother she enjoys being and in 8 years we might team up to have our own buisness. There is some short term sacrafice in my long term life goals, but I'm OK with that. I feel good about workign hard and taking risks. I want to look back and say I gave it everythign I had and that I wasn't affraid to do it my way. I hate to get into my life goals and then relate them to Thompson, but that is what I think he is doing. He believes in oppertunism and getting the real long term anser instead of the short term fix (I think it's similar to some of my sacrafices by moving to Alaska). He looks like he is getting beat up now, but he believes in himself and he enjoys the challenge. It might seem like hell to all of you, but it's just getting down to buisness for him and the joy he gets is that he feels he is doing the right thing. I'll bet that the people who are along side him will look back on what they went through and feel pretty good about everything they did. Some of the most rewarding things in life are the riskiest and hardest to do. I respect Thompson a lot. I acctually live my life a similar way and I share his inability to relate to poeple or communicate so that just makes him more likable to me.

When I'm out in Alaska, people will be saying "I'd never do that, good for him" but when my life is done and I look back on the big picutre, I think my wife and I will have fondness for the work we put in and the risks we took. I think my kids will see parents who were willing to stand by what they believe and take risks. They'll have adusted to moving and seeing different cultures within our country. Whatever, it might not be that deep and Thompson might jsut be an idiot that has no idea what he's doing but he might be a guy who doesn't mind getting his hands dirty and likes the rush of success and accomplishment more than he likes the comfort of doing it the easy way. Remember, doing it the easy way will just keep you on plane with everyoen else. This is the NFL, you need to be the best of 32. You have to find a way to be better than everyone else, not just on par.


I think I understand your point. A lot of people on this board wish TT would move to Alaska. Also, isn't it possible that Ahman Green's asthma would be less severe in Alaska?

[Harlan Huckleby]

I agreed with the decision to let Green go, it seemed like a reasonable gamble, altho a close call.

After seeing Action Jackson and Inaction Morency this summer, I worry that it was a mistake.

By Thanksgiving, the picture will be in much clearer focus. Jackson could be a LOT better by then. Goddamn, Mr. Obvious indeed.

[HarveyWallbangers]

It should be noted that Ahman averaged under 3 yards/carry in his first 2 games on 10 carries, I believe. He's still a solid runner, but not worth a 4y/$26M contract, IMHO. On the 46 yard run, he made a nice read and nicely broke a tackle, but was caught from behind. Ahman, in his prime, would have housed it.

[Guiness]

We should've resigned, allowing him to become the all-time rusher. He deserved it, and we screwed him. He IS much better than any back we have, and has at least two to three years left barring injury. We had and still have the money, so give me a reason to sit on it and let the guy go? Because he's not worth it? If you had 50,000 dollars to buy a car, and the only car you could buy was 42,000, but you thought it was only worth 31,000, would you take the money to you're grave with you and never spend it and ride a bike to work every day? Hmmm.


:bclap: :bclap: :bclap:
Great analogy number guy. The best descriptions of the situation I've seen.

[Guiness]

I believe he lost 6 yards on his first run. I was watching him for a couple series and he was breaking tackles and turning nothing into 3-4 yards. The guy is still a good runner and we will miss him alot....

Yup, against Dallas, AG racked 8 yards for 65 yds & Gado got 4 for 32 yds, both totaling above the total rushing yards for the Pack against the Jags. That speaks for itself.

So you want Gado back :crazy:

[Lurker64]

I believe he lost 6 yards on his first run. I was watching him for a couple series and he was breaking tackles and turning nothing into 3-4 yards. The guy is still a good runner and we will miss him alot....

Yup, against Dallas, AG racked 8 yards for 65 yds & Gado got 4 for 32 yds, both totaling above the total rushing yards for the Pack against the Jags. That speaks for itself.

So you want Gado back :crazy:

Maybe we're supposed to conclude that the Dallas rush defense just isn't very good?

[Joemailman]

We should've resigned, allowing him to become the all-time rusher. He deserved it, and we screwed him. He IS much better than any back we have, and has at least two to three years left barring injury. We had and still have the money, so give me a reason to sit on it and let the guy go? Because he's not worth it? If you had 50,000 dollars to buy a car, and the only car you could buy was 42,000, but you thought it was only worth 31,000, would you take the money to you're grave with you and never spend it and ride a bike to work every day? Hmmm.


:bclap: :bclap: :bclap:
Great analogy number guy. The best descriptions of the situation I've seen.

IMHO the analogy only works if you assume that Noah Herron will be our starter. Jackson and Morency may not be the Cadillac that Ahman was, but they can get us where we need to go, even if we're not traveling in style.

[Merlin]

NO SURPRISED AT ALL HERE

WE WILL GREATLY MISS AHMAN

:tup:

If I remember correctly, most everyone had hoped that we could find a way to keep Ahman. Then came the offer Houston put on the table for him and many decided he wasn't worth it. Whether you agree or not that he was worth the money, can you honestly say that you are happier with our RB situation vs having a Pro Bowl back with experience, power and speed?

Every one of us has something different on what we liked or didn't like about the off-season, draft, etc.... I guess it's safe to assume that letting Green go was the biggest thorn in my side. It's not even just that...it's that nobody else was brought in. I know, I know ....."we're happy with what we have and we clearly feel there isn't anyone else better out there"

I wish Ahman nothing but the best this year

I agree. We shouldn't have paid him what Houston did but we should have made a decent offer to the guy. 3T probably low balled him, I don't really know I never heard anything about an offer to Green. He got a great contract. I reminds me of the Rivera signing a few years back. He got a big contract as well. I wish Green all the best and hope we never have the pleasure of facing him. That would be tough to watch. 3T blew the Moss trade and IMO blew the Green signing as well.

With 13 M under the cap, it sure will be nice to have all that cash come super bowl time won't it? 3T can then buy himself some box seats to watch two teams not the Packers play.

[4and12to12and4]

For those of you who know more about the financial structure of the NFL, at this stage of preseason, what could we possibly do with the 13 million that we have sitting there? Is there something that TT knows that I don't? Or is it pretty much just dead money now. Because it doesn't carry over to next year does it?

[Bretsky]

For those of you who know more about the financial structure of the NFL, at this stage of preseason, what could we possibly do with the 13 million that we have sitting there? Is there something that TT knows that I don't? Or is it pretty much just dead money now. Because it doesn't carry over to next year does it?


There are still ways to use it; for one we could rewrite Corey Williams contract and front load about 8 Million of it to all hit this year. We had way the hell too much money left last year so TT structured Woodsen's contract like that. He could do that with other players as well, although I think Williams is the only key player who is unrestricted next year.

He also needs a little extra in case he needs to sign somebody due to injuries.

There are ways for TT to use up the money seeing he neglected free agency for the most part.

[4and12to12and4]

So, he could still use this money during the season to grab a third QB even after the season begins? Or does he have to do it before reg. season starts?

[Bretsky]

So, he could still use this money during the season to grab a third QB even after the season begins? Or does he have to do it before reg. season starts?

No, he could do it after the season starts as well. He'll use the cap money somehow, and I'd almost guarantee that it will be favorable way that will allow us the cap flexibility to play in free agency in the upcoming years if we have a GM that chooses to.

[Partial]

Once Fred Taylor signed for the money that he received, it was apparent to me that the chances of losing Ahman Green with TT as the GM were very real.

That really was the current market deal TT should have been working off of if he wanted to keep Green.

As it turns out, to even my surprise, Green got a better deal than Fred Taylor.

That is why it was so necessary to CLOSE a deal before free agency.

Kinda funny because Green can't hold Taylors jock.

I am so damn sick of this conversation. Who cares? No one knows what happened behind closed doors.

Maybe the Packers did offer him a contract and he didn't accept because he wanted to get more?!? Maybe he didn't?!?! We'll never know and its not worth debating because their is no evidence either way and whats done is done.

So we have a weakness at running back this year. It's not like the position was strong with Green there. Calling Green a pro bowler is assisnine because he hasn't had a good year since 2003. He had one big run all last year. He might have won us one more game which would put us further away from a young playmaker like Slaton, McFadden or Rice next year.

Green is gone. Every team in the league has a weak position or two. Everybody should get the hell over it and see what happens come the season. We have had this discussion at least 35 times on these boards. I thought once was enough personally.

[Partial]

This is a comment from Mr. Obvious, but you really can't judge the Ahman Green decision this year. He signed a 5 year contract (if memory serves), so that means Houston has to get good value out of him for 2 or 3 years.

Right now, losing Ahman looks bad, real bad. I think the VERY soonest we could evaluate is November, December when we see how Jackson and Green have developed and/or held up.

Not true. If letting Ahman Green walk nets us Darren McFadden, I would tell him don't let the door hit ya where the lord split you in a heartbeat. Likewise if I could do it for Chad Clifton for Jake Long I would in a second.

[GrnBay007]

No one knows what happened behind closed doors.



That applies to about 70% of the conversation topics in here, but of course it's still fun to talk about it.

[Partial]

I believe he lost 6 yards on his first run. I was watching him for a couple series and he was breaking tackles and turning nothing into 3-4 yards. The guy is still a good runner and we will miss him alot....

Yup, against Dallas, AG racked 8 yards for 65 yds & Gado got 4 for 32 yds, both totaling above the total rushing yards for the Pack against the Jags. That speaks for itself.

No, it speaks for preseason.

[Partial]

No one knows what happened behind closed doors.



That applies to about 70% of the conversation topics in here, but of course it's still fun to talk about it.

It was fun to talk about once. Maybe twice. Hell, even 5 times. But this is getting ridiculous. Every single thread here seems to come back to a TT discussion on Ahman Green, the TEs, and getting Brett enough help.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Ahman averaged 2.3 yards/carry last preseason with us. Since Jackson is averaging 3.3 yards/carry, does that mean we are ahead of last year's pace?
:D

[Bretsky]

No one knows what happened behind closed doors.



That applies to about 70% of the conversation topics in here, but of course it's still fun to talk about it.

It was fun to talk about once. Maybe twice. Hell, even 5 times. But this is getting ridiculous. Every single thread here seems to come back to a TT discussion on Ahman Green, the TEs, and getting Brett enough help.


Look at it on the bright side; at least every thread is not about TT's views on free agency anymore.

[Partial]

No one knows what happened behind closed doors.



That applies to about 70% of the conversation topics in here, but of course it's still fun to talk about it.

It was fun to talk about once. Maybe twice. Hell, even 5 times. But this is getting ridiculous. Every single thread here seems to come back to a TT discussion on Ahman Green, the TEs, and getting Brett enough help.


Look at it on the bright side; at least every thread is not about TT's views on free agency anymore.

How is this not?!?!?!? At least half the posts are.

[Bretsky]

No one knows what happened behind closed doors.



That applies to about 70% of the conversation topics in here, but of course it's still fun to talk about it.

It was fun to talk about once. Maybe twice. Hell, even 5 times. But this is getting ridiculous. Every single thread here seems to come back to a TT discussion on Ahman Green, the TEs, and getting Brett enough help.


Look at it on the bright side; at least every thread is not about TT's views on free agency anymore.

How is this not?!?!?!? At least half the posts are.


Yes, you are right; I'm ready for the season to start to see if this GB team is for real or if our homerism is a Fraud

[Partial]

No one knows what happened behind closed doors.



That applies to about 70% of the conversation topics in here, but of course it's still fun to talk about it.

It was fun to talk about once. Maybe twice. Hell, even 5 times. But this is getting ridiculous. Every single thread here seems to come back to a TT discussion on Ahman Green, the TEs, and getting Brett enough help.


Look at it on the bright side; at least every thread is not about TT's views on free agency anymore.

How is this not?!?!?!? At least half the posts are.


Yes, you are right; I'm ready for the season to start to see if this GB team is for real or if our homerism is a Fraud

It would be nice if people realize that TT is a professional at what he does and they are not even in the industry let alone have the skills and/or information necessary to make an informed decision let alone an intelligent one.

There is no need to bitch and moan anymore because what is done is done. Whether we want to admit it or not, TT is the GM for the foreseeable future and will likely continue to do things his way. Why not try to find the positives on his players than bash him for not resigning a guy he deemed as replacable? Are any of us professional scouts? No. Are any of us in practice every day and see how he moves and plays? No. Are any of us on the phone listening to the Ahman Green negoiation party line? No. I could go on but the point is clear.

Clearly, he is an accomplished person in the management side of an NFL team. Otherwise he wouldn't be where he is today. Harlan and the rest of the executive committee are also intelligent people and have chosen him to be their GM. Harlan has shown he is willing to make the tough decisions and let someone go if he doesn't feel it is going well. I trust his judgement 100% because he has consistently been succesful. Also, it's not like TT isn't under the power of someone else. I mean if the executive committee wants someone signed, you can bet your sweet ass that the player will be offered a contract. Why? Because he has bosses and is held accountable by them.

Has he not gave us a deeper roster? While it may not be as good at the top level yet, the signs are all in place that it will be soon. And it is much deeper. It may take another year or two before we're considered a good team, but we'll get there.

Why not let some time pass and let history run its course before he condemn the man for following his gut instinct?

[Guiness]

We should've resigned, allowing him to become the all-time rusher. He deserved it, and we screwed him. He IS much better than any back we have, and has at least two to three years left barring injury. We had and still have the money, so give me a reason to sit on it and let the guy go? Because he's not worth it? If you had 50,000 dollars to buy a car, and the only car you could buy was 42,000, but you thought it was only worth 31,000, would you take the money to you're grave with you and never spend it and ride a bike to work every day? Hmmm.


:bclap: :bclap: :bclap:
Great analogy number guy. The best descriptions of the situation I've seen.

IMHO the analogy only works if you assume that Noah Herron will be our starter. Jackson and Morency may not be the Cadillac that Ahman was, but they can get us where we need to go, even if we're not traveling in style.

Maybe the second half of the analogy (...and ride a bike...) isn't spot on, but I liked the first half. If you've got $50K, the car is work $30K, and they want $40K, do you do it? I'm not saying you should or shouldn't. I just like the way it makes you think about it a bit differently.

[GBRulz]

I mean if the executive committee wants someone signed, you can bet your sweet ass that the player will be offered a contract. Why? Because he has bosses and is held accountable by them.



True, he has a boss. Bob Harlan. Who has made it very clear that Ted is 100% the boss of the football organization and operations. The Executive Committee has nothing to do with saying who gets signed or not. That is one thing that I admire about Harlan, he gives someone the GM job and he lets them do their job.

[Zool]

NO SURPRISED AT ALL HERE

WE WILL GREATLY MISS AHMAN

:tup:

If I remember correctly, most everyone had hoped that we could find a way to keep Ahman. Then came the offer Houston put on the table for him and many decided he wasn't worth it. Whether you agree or not that he was worth the money, can you honestly say that you are happier with our RB situation vs having a Pro Bowl back with experience, power and speed?

Every one of us has something different on what we liked or didn't like about the off-season, draft, etc.... I guess it's safe to assume that letting Green go was the biggest thorn in my side. It's not even just that...it's that nobody else was brought in. I know, I know ....."we're happy with what we have and we clearly feel there isn't anyone else better out there"

I wish Ahman nothing but the best this year

I agree. We shouldn't have paid him what Houston did but we should have made a decent offer to the guy. 3T probably low balled him, I don't really know I never heard anything about an offer to Green. He got a great contract. I reminds me of the Rivera signing a few years back. He got a big contract as well. I wish Green all the best and hope we never have the pleasure of facing him. That would be tough to watch. 3T blew the Moss trade and IMO blew the Green signing as well.

With 13 M under the cap, it sure will be nice to have all that cash come super bowl time won't it? 3T can then buy himself some box seats to watch two teams not the Packers play.

Thompson was on record for 3years/12mil. Cant find the article this minute, but it was out there in quite a few sources. I never faulted TT for letting Ahman go, or Ahman for taking his last big payday.

The RB free agent class this year was not appealing at all. Turner from SD looked nice, but he wasnt a FA. Travis Henry has been bounced to his 3rd team in 3 years for a reason.

While I will agree that our RB situation is getting close to ugly, sinking $26mil into a 30 year old RB was not and is not the correct solution IMO. Guess we should have tanked that Bears game last season, then drafted Lynch.

I wonder what we would have to argue about then? No Harrell pick and a "stable" RB situation.

[HarveyWallbangers]

I had read that Thompson upped it to $5M/year, but when Houston went to $6.5/year, he let him go. Who knows. Marshawn's 1.8 yards/carry this preseason make Jackson's 3.3 yards/carry look stellar.

[PackerBlues]

Kinda funny because Green can't hold Taylors jock.




It's not like the position was strong with Green there. Calling Green a pro bowler is assisnine because he hasn't had a good year since 2003. He had one big run all last year.


Taylor had 1,146 rushing yards last year, Green had 1,059. They each had 5 rushing TD's. I would say that they had comparable years rushing.

As a reciever, Taylor had 23 receptions for 242 yards and a TD, Green had 46 receptions for 373 yards and a TD.

I would like to add that Green was the Packers 3rd leading reciever last year behind Driver and Jennings......he actually had 1 more reception than Jennings.

The thing that I see as being asinine, is anyone suggesting that Green was not a major contributer on the Packers Offense. The Packers do not have a single running back on their roster that could hold Green's jock-strap. All things considered, we don't even know for a fact if we have any WR's behind Driver that can hold Green's jock-strap, we didn't last year.

[Partial]

Kinda funny because Green can't hold Taylors jock.




It's not like the position was strong with Green there. Calling Green a pro bowler is assisnine because he hasn't had a good year since 2003. He had one big run all last year.


Taylor had 1,146 rushing yards last year, Green had 1,059. They each had 5 rushing TD's. I would say that they had comparable years rushing.

As a reciever, Taylor had 23 receptions for 242 yards and a TD, Green had 46 receptions for 373 yards and a TD.

I would like to add that Green was the Packers 3rd leading reciever last year behind Driver and Jennings......he actually had 1 more reception than Jennings.

The thing that I see as being asinine, is anyone suggesting that Green was not a major contributer on the Packers Offense. The Packers do not have a single running back on their roster that could hold Green's jock-strap. All things considered, we don't even know for a fact if we have any WR's behind Driver that can hold Green's jock-strap, we didn't last year.

Taylor is a top 12 or so running backs ever. He split carries last year with MJD and still had huge stats.

He is extremely talented and has a ton of yards. Problem is he has never stayed healthy throughout his entire career. It is one of those things that makes you wonder how many yards he would have if healthy!!

Comparing careers, Ahman can't compare to Fred Taylor. Not even close.

[Zool]

Taylor in '06
att yds avg td rec yds avg td
231 1146 5.0 5 23 242 10.5 1


Green in '06
att yds avg td rec yds avg td
266 1059 4.0 5 46 373 8.1 1

[Merlin]

I don't think we should have overpaid either and I have no idea what 3T offered. I just know that with the type of player Green is, if the offer was worthwhile he would have stayed in Green Bay. Unless of course Green didn't like the direction that 3T was going with the offense and in that case Green has a lot of people in his corner on that,

[Scott Campbell]

Thompson was on record for 3years/12mil. Cant find the article this minute, but it was out there in quite a few sources. I never faulted TT for letting Ahman go, or Ahman for taking his last big payday.


I agree completely, you can't blame either guy for Green leaving. Tt was the right thing for both parties.

However once it happened, Thompson was responsible for fielding a replacement. And the jury is definitely still out on that one.

[Zool]

Thompson was on record for 3years/12mil. Cant find the article this minute, but it was out there in quite a few sources. I never faulted TT for letting Ahman go, or Ahman for taking his last big payday.


I agree completely, you can't blame either guy for Green leaving. Tt was the right thing for both parties.

However once it happened, Thompson was responsible for fielding a replacement. And the jury is definitely still out on that one.
Agreed. I'm hoping Jackson end up being a player, but he doesnt have that super burst. He does stay on his feet well.

[The Leaper]

I just know that with the type of player Green is, if the offer was worthwhile he would have stayed in Green Bay.

You have no idea what Thompson did put on the table or what amount would have been needed to keep Green in Green Bay, but we ALL have clear evidence that most knowledgable NFL observers were quick to comment that Houston vastly overpaid for Green at the time of his signing.

In that kind of a scenario, it is extremely unlikely that Green was going to remain in Green Bay...just as another devoted Packer, Marco Rivera, also couldn't ignore a blockbuster deal to go elsewhere. Such is the era of free agency.

I agree with the notion that Green's departure can hardly be laid at Thompson's feet...but the lack of a reliable replacement for Green certainly can be.

[woodbuck27]

..........would you take the money to you're grave with you and never spend it..........


I don't think your analogy works. Much of the money that Ahman would have got will eventually be spent on another player(s). Or car in your example. So nobody will be riding a bike.

There is where TT can't be given an out.

If he banked 5 Grand for Ahman and that was his top dollar, and the Texans pushed it outside of TT's ego boundry? Then TT had to get something equitable in terms of talent in return for our backfield.

To hear him (TT) spout off on his confidence in what we had (slash) have at RB in Greens absence, and nothing else brought in.

Is like a neglectful stock portfolio manager failing to upgrade the portfolio to the standard expected by his client. Our position at RB in 2006 (with Green clearly as our finest RB) and a respected Packer as well. He was on the verge of setting records at his position, a long time top producer in our colors who was extremely valuable and had a loyal fan following and general Packer fan respect. He was also a solid if quiet leader in the locker romm and on the field.

A huge loss at RB for us,given the way he played last season after a horrible injury in 2005.

To see Ahman go over money and nothing done after that but play the carte blance card is 'the real suck'.

It's like going into a poker game for six, with five others at the table all buying in for a grand each, and TT the 6th player decides to play with $400.00 as his stake.

TT begins the game with a decisive advantage against him ( NO compensating POWER), way too on the short side.

His incompetence demonstrated in saying or standing on what he has remaining at RB, is like the worlds worst poker player who trys a bluff tactic too soon into the game and too often before he's the first removed.

In other words TT has demonstrated clear stupidity in terms of our needs in the running game.

That's the proper word here. STUPID !

[The Leaper]

There is where TT can't be given an out.

If he banked 5 Grand for Ahman and that was his top dollar and The Texans pushed t outside of TT's ego boundry then TT had to get something equitable in terms of talent in return.

That is all well and good.

But WHO could Thompson have gotten that would've provided an equitable return in talent for a fair price? That is the point you are missing. Who did he fail to get that is tearing it up right now?

It isn't as easy to just pluck players out of thin air and make them a part of your roster as you make it out to be...it sounds like grocery shopping the way you put it. Guys available as free agents weren't wanted by another team for a reason. Guys who can be pursued via trade can often be as expensive as the guy you let go...and often aren't all that proven of commodities, especially in YOUR system.

I agree that Thompson should be taken to task if this group of RBs is a dud in 2007. However, I'm willing to let the season play out before I call Thompson stupid...because I really don't see a simple solution that he somehow overlooked.

[Scott Campbell]

..........would you take the money to you're grave with you and never spend it..........


I don't think your analogy works. Much of the money that Ahman would have got will eventually be spent on another player(s). Or car in your example. So nobody will be riding a bike.

There is where TT can't be given an out.

If he banked 5 Grand for Ahman and that was his top dollar and The Texans pushed t outside of TT's ego boundry then TT had to get something equitable in terms of talent in return. IMO.

To hear him (TT) spout off on his confidence in what we had (slash) have at RB in Greens absence and nothing else brought in. Is like a neglectful stock portfolio manager failing to upgrade the portfolio to the standard expected by his client. Our position at RB in 2006 (with Green clearly as our finest RB) and a respected Packer as well. He was on the verge of setting records at his position, a long time top producer in our colors who was extremely valuable and had a loyal fan following and respect.

To see Ahman go over money and nothing done after that but play the carte blance card is 'the real suck'.

It's like going into a poker game for six, with five others at the table all buying in for a grand each, and TT the 6th player decides to play with $400.00 as his stake.

TT begins the game with a decisive advantage against him (NO compensating POWER).

His incompetence demonstrated in saying or standing on what he has remaining at RB is like the worlds worst poker player who trys a bluff tactic too soon into the game and too often before he's the first removed.

In other words TT has demonstrated clear stupidity in terms of our needs in the running game.

That's the proper word here. STUPID !


Man, you sure seem to hate the guy. I don't buy into any of this "ego" stuff. Just because you don't like what he's doing, it doesn't make the guy an egomanic. He certainly doesn't grab the microphone or preen for the cameras like an egomaniac.

You are also wrong about "nothing else brought in". He drafted 2 RB's. You could argue that Jackson and Wynne aren't good enough, but you can't say he didn't do anything. It's factually incorrect and makes you sound like an angry hater.

[Bretsky]

Kinda funny because Green can't hold Taylors jock.




It's not like the position was strong with Green there. Calling Green a pro bowler is assisnine because he hasn't had a good year since 2003. He had one big run all last year.


Taylor had 1,146 rushing yards last year, Green had 1,059. They each had 5 rushing TD's. I would say that they had comparable years rushing.

As a reciever, Taylor had 23 receptions for 242 yards and a TD, Green had 46 receptions for 373 yards and a TD.

I would like to add that Green was the Packers 3rd leading reciever last year behind Driver and Jennings......he actually had 1 more reception than Jennings.

The thing that I see as being asinine, is anyone suggesting that Green was not a major contributer on the Packers Offense. The Packers do not have a single running back on their roster that could hold Green's jock-strap. All things considered, we don't even know for a fact if we have any WR's behind Driver that can hold Green's jock-strap, we didn't last year.

Taylor is a top 12 or so running backs ever. He split carries last year with MJD and still had huge stats.

He is extremely talented and has a ton of yards. Problem is he has never stayed healthy throughout his entire career. It is one of those things that makes you wonder how many yards he would have if healthy!!

Comparing careers, Ahman can't compare to Fred Taylor. Not even close.

THIS IS A LOAD OF BUNK; can't carry the jock strap ? The facts would disagree.

First off Fred Taylor is nowhere near a top 12 back right now.

Secondly, I was curious enough to look at the facts of the situation. Here is a comparison of Taylor and Green over the Past Five Years an the looked back at year six as well. In one of the past five years, Ahman was hurt most of the year so his stats were near nothing. His numbers are still very similar.

If we go back over the last six years then Ahman Green's numbers are better than Fred Taylor's

PAST FIVE YEARS (remember Ahman had only a couple hundred yards in 05)

Fred Taylor Games 72 Yards 5900 TD's 24
Ahm Green Games 64 Yards 5500 TD's 34

This takes into consideration 2005, in which Green had 5 Games and 255yds

GOING BACK ONE MORE YEAR, in 2001

Ahman Green had 1387 yards and 9 TD's
Fred Taylor had 116 yards and No TD's


Taylor came into the league in 1998
Green came into the league in 1998

Career Stats

Ahman Green 8491Yds 4.5 YPC 54 Rush TD's 2700Yds Rec 14TD Rec
Fred Taylor 9513 Yds 4.6 YPC 56 Rush TD's 2200Yds Rec 8 TD Rec[/u]


And if you look at the stats you will also see Green had virtually NO STATS for two years while he was in Holmgren's doghouse. His first year in GB he had nearly 1200 yards right off the bat.

Taylor had 20 of his TD's and about 2,000 years in his first two years.

So stat wise Green has been the better back since the year 2,000

I think they are very comparable, and like I said, once Taylor got his deal I had a painful feeling TT would let Ahman go.

[RashanGary]

Damn, Green is going to get 10,000 yards in the next two years. He might make the case for the HOF if he gets to that 10,000 yard mark.

[HarveyWallbangers]

I agree with Bretsky. Considering everything, I'd take Ahman over Taylor. Taylor has played two more full seasons as a starter over Ahman and the results are pretty similar.

That being said, I'm not willing to panic on the running game. While the running game wasn't great last year (and I don't think it will be great this year), we struggled even more last year running the ball in the preseason. There may be something to the fact we aren't scheming or cutting as much as usual.

I took a look back to last year. Our top three RBs (Ahman Green, Najeh Davenport, and Samkon Gado) combined for 157 yards on 62 carries (2.5 yards/carry). They didn't have a game where they averaged more than 2.7 yards/carry. Ahman averaged 2.3 yards/carry, and I don't believe any of the three came close to averaging 3 yards/carry. Jackson's 3.3 yards/carry are good in comparison.

Ahman, Najeh, and Samkon combined in the preseason last year:

vs. San Diego - 9 carries, 18 yards (2.0 yards/carry)
vs. Atlanta - 11 carries, 29 yards (2.6 yards/carry)
vs. Cincinnati - 23 carries, 62 yards (2.7 yards/carry)
vs. Tennessee - 19 carries, 48 yards (2.5 yards/carry)

[Bretsky]

I agree with Bretsky. Considering everything, I'd take Ahman over Taylor. Taylor has played two more full seasons as a starter over Ahman and the results are pretty similar.

That being said, I'm not willing to panic on the running game. While the running game wasn't great last year (and I don't think it will be great this year), we struggled even more last year running the ball in the preseason. There may be something to the fact we aren't scheming or cutting as much as usual.

I took a look back to last year. Our top three RBs (Ahman Green, Najeh Davenport, and Samkon Gado) combined for 157 yards on 62 carries (2.5 yards/carry). They didn't have a game where they averaged more than 2.7 yards/carry. Ahman averaged 2.3 yards/carry, and I don't believe any of the three came close to averaging 3 yards/carry. Jackson's 3.3 yards/carry are good in comparison.

Ahman, Najeh, and Samkon combined in the preseason last year:

vs. San Diego - 9 carries, 18 yards (2.0 yards/carry)
vs. Atlanta - 11 carries, 29 yards (2.6 yards/carry)
vs. Cincinnati - 23 carries, 62 yards (2.7 yards/carry)
vs. Tennessee - 19 carries, 48 yards (2.5 yards/carry)


In our offense I'd also take Ahman over Taylor.

On a sidenote I actually wish we had Da Crapper back on our roster

[HarveyWallbangers]

On a sidenote I actually wish we had Da Crapper back on our roster

Not me. Horrible fit for this scheme, and always injured.

[Partial]

snip.

Are you serious?

Fred Taylor is quietly one of the best running backs to ever play the game. He has consistently produced HUGE yardage.

You posted stats but you ignored the fact that Taylor is always hurt and has been plagued by injuries his entire career. The difference is unlike Ahman he tends to play hurt. This is somewhere that stats don't tell the entire story.

Taylor has averaged 85 yards/game over his career. He has also been far more banged up and played hurt far more often than Ahman. Ahman averages 67 yards per game, almost 20 yards less!!!

That said, Ahman was also used less so his career has had better longevity. He has played in 14 more games, yet has 1100 less yards. He averages fewer yards/carry, has fewer touchdowns, etc.

Most importantly, Ahman did it behind one of the best lines ever for an extended period. Other than an over the hill Tony Boselli, Taylor had pretty average lines and managed to still be a playmaker. That is something Green has yet to prove that he could do.

How you can argue this is ridiculous. Taylor is a ridiculously good player and one of the best ever. If he plays two more seasons he is a hall-of-famer for sure. He is probably one now. Green would have to have two great seasons to get considered.

[Bretsky]

snip.

Are you serious?

Fred Taylor is quietly one of the best running backs to ever play the game. He has consistently produced HUGE yardage.

You posted stats but you ignored the fact that Taylor is always hurt and has been plagued by injuries his entire career. The difference is unlike Ahman he tends to play hurt. This is somewhere that stats don't tell the entire story.

Taylor has averaged 85 yards/game over his career. He has also been far more banged up and played hurt far more often than Ahman. Ahman averages 67 yards per game, almost 20 yards less!!!

That said, Ahman was also used less so his career has had better longevity. He has played in 14 more games, yet has 1100 less yards. He averages fewer yards/carry, has fewer touchdowns, etc.

Most importantly, Ahman did it behind one of the best lines ever for an extended period. Other than an over the hill Tony Boselli, Taylor had pretty average lines and managed to still be a playmaker. That is something Green has yet to prove that he could do.

How you can argue this is ridiculous. Taylor is a ridiculously good player and one of the best ever. If he plays two more seasons he is a hall-of-famer for sure. He is probably one now. Green would have to have two great seasons to get considered.


Fred Taylor playing through injuries ? WOW

I'm not ignorning the stats; I posted the lifetime stats. They are very comparable and Ahman has been better if you don't take into account the first two years.

4.6 Yards per Carry versus 4.5 Yards per Carry Lifetime; how can they not be comparable ??

Ahman Green played in 30 games in his first two years under Holmgren and accumulated 329 yards. PLEASE don't tell me you are using that to come up with your 67 yards per game ?????????????

[RashanGary]

I always thought Taylor was underrated. I thought Travis Henry was underrated too.

[Bretsky]

That said, Ahman was also used less so his career has had better longevity. He has played in 14 more games, yet has 1100 less yards. He averages fewer yards/carry, has fewer touchdowns, etc.


Want to again point out while in Holmgren's doghouse his stats will show he played 30 games his first two years and had 329yds and one TD

Yards per carry are nearly identical
Touchdowns are nearly identical
Green has more TD's receiving and more receiving yards


AND Green all of it for the most part in two less seasons

[Bretsky]

I always thought Taylor was underrated. I thought Travis Henry was underrated too.


I was listening to ESPN radio on way back from Wisconsin Dells today. Some have referred to Henry as the Bang for the Buck signing at RB this year.

Well, from the sounds of it he has a lot of bang in him

Documented fiscal issues last year; he has nine children out of marriage from nine different mothers. Source was the Doug Gotlieb show. Nuts

[RashanGary]

haha, I heard that too. That must suck. His whole paycheck is just pissed away.

There was a time when spreading your seed was more animalistic. It was about being a dominate man with traits that are desirable to a woman. The dominate men would spread their seed to many women and so would go the natural ways of evolution. (the women selected the traits from the best men and the sexual desires that revolve around reproducing the strongest offspring went on like in the rest of the natural world as we know it) Now, the dominate men are taught and learned how NOT to spread their seed. Be it an athlete or a brilliant laywer or doctor. Men know the reprocussions (most do anyway) and the more you ahve to lose and the more desirable your traits are to this world, the more you keep it in your pants.

My whole point is that this child support thing is interrupting the natural chain of the fit surviving and spreading their seed in favor of the fit keeping in their pants adn the desirable traits dying off.

Why am I bringing this up? I don't know but it's a theory of mine, one that is probably already out there and I thought it related.

[Bretsky]

With 9 kids, I wonder how much child support is ? It must be well over 50% of what he makes :?:

[Partial]

That said, Ahman was also used less so his career has had better longevity. He has played in 14 more games, yet has 1100 less yards. He averages fewer yards/carry, has fewer touchdowns, etc.


Want to again point out while in Holmgren's doghouse his stats will show he played 30 games his first two years and had 329yds and one TD

Yards per carry are nearly identical
Touchdowns are nearly identical
Green has more TD's receiving and more receiving yards

Green's biggest years were all behind a great offensive line. Without that, he has shown to nothing more than an average back. Taylor creates things for himself because he has never had a great line.

I did use Ahmans first two years because that is when he had the most yards/carry.

It's not like Taylor played a lot his first couple of years, he missed 23 games in his 2nd and 3rd seasons.

The only players in NFL History to average more yards/carry are Barry Sanders, Jim Brown, OJ Simpson and Tiki Barber. Thats right, he is 5th in NFL history in yards/carry.

His rushing yards/game is 6th all-time in the NFL. The only players with higher averages of rushing yards/game are Barry Sanders, Jim Brown, Edgerrin James, Walter Payton, and Rodger Craig.

That is some pretty damn fine company if I do say so myself.

He, like so many other Jaguars, don't get any respect because they are in a small-market team that historically has been pretty bad.

[falco]

haha, I heard that too. That must suck. His whole paycheck is just pissed away.

There was a time when spreading your seed was more animalistic. It was about being a dominate man with traits that are desirable to a woman. The dominate men would spread their seed to many women and so would go the natural ways of evolution. (the women selected the traits from the best men and the sexual desires that revolve around reproducing the strongest offspring went on like in the rest of the natural world as we know it) Now, the dominate men are taught and learned how NOT to spread their seed. Be it an athlete or a brilliant laywer or doctor. Men know the reprocussions (most do anyway) and the more you ahve to lose and the more desirable your traits are to this world, the more you keep it in your pants.

My whole point is that this child support thing is interrupting the natural chain of the fit surviving and spreading their seed in favor of the fit keeping in their pants adn the desirable traits dying off.

Why am I bringing this up? I don't know but it's a theory of mine, one that is probably already out there and I thought it related.

between that your theory about cut blocking this offseason you're a regular Albert Einstein.

[Bretsky]

That said, Ahman was also used less so his career has had better longevity. He has played in 14 more games, yet has 1100 less yards. He averages fewer yards/carry, has fewer touchdowns, etc.


Want to again point out while in Holmgren's doghouse his stats will show he played 30 games his first two years and had 329yds and one TD

Yards per carry are nearly identical
Touchdowns are nearly identical
Green has more TD's receiving and more receiving yards

Green's biggest years were all behind a great offensive line. Without that, he has shown to nothing more than an average back. Taylor creates things for himself because he has never had a great line.

I did use Ahmans first two years because that is when he had the most yards/carry.

It's not like Taylor played a lot his first couple of years, he missed 23 games in his 2nd and 3rd seasons.

The only players in NFL History to average more yards/carry are Barry Sanders, Jim Brown, OJ Simpson and Tiki Barber. Thats right, he is 5th in NFL history in yards/carry.

His rushing yards/game is 6th all-time in the NFL. The only players with higher averages of rushing yards/game are Barry Sanders, Jim Brown, Edgerrin James, Walter Payton, and Rodger Craig.

That is some pretty damn fine company if I do say so myself.

He, like so many other Jaguars, don't get any respect because they are in a small-market team that historically has been pretty bad.


Ahman Green has had 1,000 plus yards in 6 of his last seven years; if you want to penalize his production because of his OL I guess you can. Regardless he still averages only one tenth of a point less than Taylor and I don't discredit either Taylor (who had some good OL's to run behind) or Green due to the OL. Green was, and is, a dam good RB. And the numbers show they are very comparable.

Ahman Green had 60 rushing attempts, or LESS than two a game, in his first two years. Not fair to use those two years to water down his yards per game. In fact, 60 attempts doesn't even help his average yards per game much anyways.

Fred Taylor had huge numbers his first two years while Ahman had no opportunities. He did play a lot his first three seasons.

http://www.nfl.com/players/fredtaylor/profile?id=TAY220162

Compared to Green's 2 attempts per game and 60 total rushes in two years, Taylor had 419 attempts in years one and two. Tayler played 9 games in 1999 and 13 games in 2000 (year 3).

[HarveyWallbangers]

Ahman has been every bit as good as Fred Taylor. Plus, he's been more durable.

I will say that, right now, I'd probably take Fred Taylor. I don't see a huge dropoff with Taylor. With Ahman, there has been a dropoff.

Ahman is extremely underrated by some. FAST, POWER, MOVES. Great goalline back. Not a receiver in the Faulk class, but could catch the dumpoffs, flareouts, and screens well. Great pass protector. He did fumble a bit (a lot early in the season, seldom at the end of the season). He will be missed.

[Partial]

I disagree but I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. They are different types of runners and imo Taylor has a knack for creating things himself where as Green needs help.

[LEWCWA]

Wow, i just asked if anyone saw him against the girls. He looked good and tough to me. I like the way he plays the game and think the Pack is going to miss him. He is a Packer in my book!

[retailguy]

Wow, i just asked if anyone saw him against the girls. He looked good and tough to me. I like the way he plays the game and think the Pack is going to miss him. He is a Packer in my book!


Too many people have to justify their comments about whether or not it was a good thing that GB got rid of him... Lots of not being able to see the "big picture".

[wist43]

I've always contended that we'll miss Green... now I'm hoping we desperately miss him - as I took him in the 7th round of one of my FF drafts last night.

Took Taylor with my next pick in the 8th round.

Shallow league, so they're my 2nd and 3rd backs. PPR/PPC league, so ya win thru the air in this one.

[SkinBasket]

haha, I heard that too. That must suck. His whole paycheck is just pissed away.

There was a time when spreading your seed was more animalistic. It was about being a dominate man with traits that are desirable to a woman. The dominate men would spread their seed to many women and so would go the natural ways of evolution. (the women selected the traits from the best men and the sexual desires that revolve around reproducing the strongest offspring went on like in the rest of the natural world as we know it) Now, the dominate men are taught and learned how NOT to spread their seed. Be it an athlete or a brilliant laywer or doctor. Men know the reprocussions (most do anyway) and the more you ahve to lose and the more desirable your traits are to this world, the more you keep it in your pants.

My whole point is that this child support thing is interrupting the natural chain of the fit surviving and spreading their seed in favor of the fit keeping in their pants adn the desirable traits dying off.

Why am I bringing this up? I don't know but it's a theory of mine, one that is probably already out there and I thought it related.

Yes, we've heard your "theory" before. To me it simply sounds like a way for you to justify not getting any ass. Then you get to claim you're simply one of your "super males" who's been trained by the sex ninjas to withhold their seed from the world. Of course, according to your "theory," when you finally trick a pony into standing still long enough for you (HINT: they like hay), you'll then have to admit that you lack the desirable male traits that you've evidently put so much thought into.


As far as green goes, if he stays healthy, which was a much larger question when we had to decide to resign him or not, then it looks like a bad decision. I'm just not convinced he makes it through 10 games this year.

[woodbuck27]

sorry ! :)

[woodbuck27]

..........would you take the money to you're grave with you and never spend it..........


I don't think your analogy works. Much of the money that Ahman would have got will eventually be spent on another player(s). Or car in your example. So nobody will be riding a bike.

There is where TT can't be given an out.

If he banked 5 Grand for Ahman and that was his top dollar and The Texans pushed t outside of TT's ego boundry then TT had to get something equitable in terms of talent in return. IMO.

To hear him (TT) spout off on his confidence in what we had (slash) have at RB in Greens absence and nothing else brought in. Is like a neglectful stock portfolio manager failing to upgrade the portfolio to the standard expected by his client. Our position at RB in 2006 (with Green clearly as our finest RB) and a respected Packer as well. He was on the verge of setting records at his position, a long time top producer in our colors who was extremely valuable and had a loyal fan following and respect.

To see Ahman go over money and nothing done after that but play the carte blance card is 'the real suck'.

It's like going into a poker game for six, with five others at the table all buying in for a grand each, and TT the 6th player decides to play with $400.00 as his stake.

TT begins the game with a decisive advantage against him (NO compensating POWER).

His incompetence demonstrated in saying or standing on what he has remaining at RB is like the worlds worst poker player who trys a bluff tactic too soon into the game and too often before he's the first removed.

In other words TT has demonstrated clear stupidity in terms of our needs in the running game.

That's the proper word here. STUPID !


Man, you sure seem to hate the guy. I don't buy into any of this "ego" stuff. Just because you don't like what he's doing, it doesn't make the guy an egomanic. He certainly doesn't grab the microphone or preen for the cameras like an egomaniac.

You are also wrong about "nothing else brought in". He drafted 2 RB's. You could argue that Jackson and Wynne aren't good enough, but you can't say he didn't do anything. It's factually incorrect and makes you sound like an angry hater.

Baloney.

No ROOKIE could ever be expected to compensate the loss of Ahman in too many respects Scott.

Again I don't hate TT or feel that need for anyone of some measure of importance to me. The success of my team is much depended on the success of it's GM.

I believe that. The emotion of hatred if unfounded in anything but evil is weakness.

I'm a Christian Scott, so I don't choose to resort to such low or weak emotion.

[woodbuck27]

There is where TT can't be given an out.

If he banked 5 Grand for Ahman and that was his top dollar and The Texans pushed t outside of TT's ego boundry then TT had to get something equitable in terms of talent in return.

That is all well and good.

But WHO could Thompson have gotten that would've provided an equitable return in talent for a fair price? That is the point you are missing. Who did he fail to get that is tearing it up right now?

It isn't as easy to just pluck players out of thin air and make them a part of your roster as you make it out to be...it sounds like grocery shopping the way you put it. Guys available as free agents weren't wanted by another team for a reason. Guys who can be pursued via trade can often be as expensive as the guy you let go...and often aren't all that proven of commodities, especially in YOUR system.

I agree that Thompson should be taken to task if this group of RBs is a dud in 2007. However, I'm willing to let the season play out before I call Thompson stupid...because I really don't see a simple solution that he somehow overlooked.

Here . . .some options that TT flat out decided to clearly ignore,that does reflect his questionable ego.

The distressing part for Packers fans is that the running back position is shaping up to be to the 2007 Packers what the guard position was to the 2005 Packers: a total mess.

It is Thompson's responsibility to fill open positions, regardless of the circumstances. It is his job to recognize that Morency has a durability problem, that he probably won't get a shot at drafting California's Marshawn Lynch in the first round and that the options after Lynch weren't all that good.

It's his job to make sure the Packers don't fall into the same hole they did in '05 when they couldn't get anything done because their guards were so bad.

At this point, signing Tennessee free agent Chris Brown wouldn't have been such a bad option. Brown, an unrestricted free agent, was interested in signing with the Packers during the off-season, but talks never got off the ground and he wound up going back to the Titans for very little money.

Through three games, Brown is averaging 5.1 yards per carry and is in a heated race with LenDale White for the starting halfback job. Brown has a reputation for running too high and getting hurt, but at this point he'd look like a pretty good option for the Packers.

Jacksonville's LaBrandon Toefield was available, too. And he'll probably be available after the cutdown to 53. At this point, he'd be a viable option. He's not much of a breakaway threat and he's not going to make anyone forget Green, but he can pound it between the tackles.

Then there's San Diego's Michael Turner.

Comment woodbuck27:

It's very obvious to us at packerrats, that TT flat out decided to bank money and ignore options to go experience at RB. If our record suffers and that is in large part due to a lousy running game. Then it all falls on Ted Thomopson and he should be fired.

He's not going to change or grow into what we need as a GM. It's due certainly in part to his slowness to react to our neds and insure that the bases are at least attempted by him to be covered. He can't step up to the plate and today we sit on $15 Million below the CAP.

That is in our face, and on TT outrageous, given the way our running game will sputter. Toss the ace of spades down on our running game. It's dead on the beach before the swim begins.

Then TT has the balls to stand on this as the season he wants to win.

What a joke!! A joke on himself as it will play out. Bank on it.

He in that fantasy demonstrates foolishness and an utter deceit and advertises his incompetence in neon lights.

We deserve a lot more.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Here . . .some options that TT flat out decided to clearly ignore,that does reflect his questionable ego.

Whatever.

[woodbuck27]

Here . . .some options that TT flat out decided to clearly ignore,that does reflect his questionable ego.

Whatever.

It's now in our faces Harvey and time to seriously consider the negativity offered by TT towards our future as Packer fans.

How much longer do you Harvey (or any other Packer fans here) sit on TT's fence while more and more Packer fans see reality in failure with TT's ways and manners?

He set our team up to fail in 2007 with an exceedingly inept effort to secure for our needs.

He did nothing for us that could even marginally be conceived as positive for 2007.

[Zool]

Here . . .some options that TT flat out decided to clearly ignore,that does reflect his questionable ego.

Whatever.

It's now in our faces Harvey and time to seriously consider the negativity offered by TT towards our future as Packer fans.

How much longer do you Harvey (or any other Packer fans here) sit on TT's fence while more and more Packer fans see reality in failure with TT's ways and manners?

He set our team up to fail in 2007 with an exceedingly inept effort to secure for our needs.

He did nothing for us that could even marginally be conceived as positive for 2007.
I hate to play the other side of this, but what can you do to change it? He did not specifically set this team up to fail. No one is that stupid or arrogant. You might think he has designs on getting Favre out, but TT has been around enough to know that young QB's struggle.

You're more than entitled to your take on the matter, but do you really want to live with all that negativity?

[The Leaper]

He set our team up to fail in 2007 with an exceedingly inept effort to secure for our needs.

So far I've seen Brown and Toefield pointed out as possible options to "secure our needs".

How in the hell are either of those guys going to make a huge difference in this team?

Brown has often been criticized for his durability. Toefield and Turner would also have those questions since he isn't proven as a starter. They could have just as easily been in camp right now and hurt just like Morency or Jackson.

I'm sorry, I don't see how Thompson missed some golden opportunity to improve the team. He drafted a guy in the second round who has talent comparable to any of the above mentioned RBs along with already having a guy who seemed to have the talent to compete for the spot and also is as talented as the above mentioned QBs.

Did you want Thompson to keep 8 RBs on the roster? RBs get hurt...especially when they are fighting for spots in camp. It is easy for guys with nothing to prove to avoid injury. Our guys are getting nicked up fighting to get a job. That wasn't going to change regardless of what second/third tier guy Thompson brought in.

[MJZiggy]

It is Thompson's responsibility to fill open positions, regardless of the circumstances. It is his job to recognize that Morency has a durability problem, that he probably won't get a shot at drafting California's Marshawn Lynch in the first round and that the options after Lynch weren't all that good.



Seems to me that I read one of our stat geniuses post that Jackson's numbers are far superior to Lynch's so far, so that kinda blows the theory that the options after Lynch weren't good...and, funny, I don't recall Morency being continually injured...

[Partial]

Every team has a position that is pretty bad. You guys get that, right?

[PaCkFan_n_MD]

Every team has a position that is pretty bad. You guys get that, right?

The good teams are not weak at running back.

[Partial]

Every team has a position that is pretty bad. You guys get that, right?

The good teams are not weak at running back.

Ummmm.. Baltimore had a pretty poor running back last year. Every team has at least a weakness. Most teams have more than that. Everyone acts like we're the worst team in the league because we don't have world beaters at Tight End and Running Back.

Look at the Bears. They look pretty damn weak at running back this year because they don't have any experience there despite having a top pick there.

San Diego doesn't have a great secondary. Indianapolis' offensive line is looking pretty average this year and their front 7 leaves a lot to be desired. Jacksonville has some of the worst receivers in the league. New Orleans doesn't have a very good secondary. Kansas City has a poor offensive line and an adequate secondary. New England's linebackers are looking very, very old outside of Thomas. Their secondary isn't full of world beaters, either.

My point is that our team isn't the only one with some holes. We don't even know if we have holes at those positions, yet. Time will tell on that.

[BallHawk]

Ummmm.. Baltimore had a pretty poor running back last year.

When did having your RB run for 1100 yards and 9 TDs become bad? :?:

[Partial]

Ummmm.. Baltimore had a pretty poor running back last year.

When did having your RB run for 1100 yards and 9 TDs become bad? :?:

Jonathon Ogden my friend. Jamal Lewis is done. He hasn't been a good back since Prison.

[Zool]

Ummmm.. Baltimore had a pretty poor running back last year.

When did having your RB run for 1100 yards and 9 TDs become bad? :?:

When you carry the ball 314 times behind a good line. And when your 3.6 ypc is actually up from the previous year.

[GBRulz]

Every team has a position that is pretty bad. You guys get that, right?

The good teams are not weak at running back.

Ummmm.. Baltimore had a pretty poor running back last year. Every team has at least a weakness. Most teams have more than that. Everyone acts like we're the worst team in the league because we don't have world beaters at Tight End and Running Back.

Look at the Bears. They look pretty damn weak at running back this year because they don't have any experience there despite having a top pick there.

San Diego doesn't have a great secondary. Indianapolis' offensive line is looking pretty average this year and their front 7 leaves a lot to be desired. Jacksonville has some of the worst receivers in the league. New Orleans doesn't have a very good secondary. Kansas City has a poor offensive line and an adequate secondary. New England's linebackers are looking very, very old outside of Thomas. Their secondary isn't full of world beaters, either.

My point is that our team isn't the only one with some holes. We don't even know if we have holes at those positions, yet. Time will tell on that.

I agree that even some of the better teams have weak spots. However, they have upgraded in other areas where we haven't. That's the big difference. I think we're going to be awesome in a couple of years, but I think we're in for another year of alot of rookie and young guy mistakes.

BTW, you're confusing the heck out of me because two days ago, you just said that Larry Johnson sucks, is the most overrated player in the league and how even you could run for 1200 yards behind that line. Today though, the OL is KC's big weakness.

[PaCkFan_n_MD]

Partial, Larry Johnson is not overrated, that is BS. I for one would love to see you run behind there line and then watch you get blow away.

As for your example of the Bears and Ravens having a bad running game, but still being good teams...........

The Bears had Thomas Jones last year ( a great back IMO), and I expect the Bears to be a lot worse on offense and the team as a whole if Benson can't pick up the slack.

The Ravens may have not had a GREAT back, but they still got the job done on the ground with Lewis and that’s what it comes down to. If the packers had a great on-line then I would not be as upset as I am for us losing Green. But without a great run blocking o-line and or a running back that can make things happen your running game is doomed.

[GBRulz]

The Bears had Thomas Jones last year ( a great back IMO), and I expect the Bears to be a lot worse on offense and the team as a whole if Benson can't pick up the slack.

Oh come on, it's going to be Wrex's breakout year, they'll have a great offense :twisted: :bs2:

[Partial]

Every team has a position that is pretty bad. You guys get that, right?

The good teams are not weak at running back.

snip

I agree that even some of the better teams have weak spots. However, they have upgraded in other areas where we haven't. That's the big difference. I think we're going to be awesome in a couple of years, but I think we're in for another year of alot of rookie and young guy mistakes.

BTW, you're confusing the heck out of me because two days ago, you just said that Larry Johnson sucks, is the most overrated player in the league and how even you could run for 1200 yards behind that line. Today though, the OL is KC's big weakness.

It is a weakness today. Last year and the year before, there were two more hall-of-famers starting on it. I don't think he'll match the totals of previous years. At least on yds/carry.

Larry is a good back. Top 10 in the league probably. I think he is really overrated though. Sportscenter and the general public think he is the 2nd coming where as I see him as not being spectacular.

I agree on the notion of other teams patching the holes. I feel like a lot of people out there just don't release that other teams in the NFL are not all perfect.



snip

Agreed on just about all of it. KC isn't that good, though.

[Patler]

I agree that even some of the better teams have weak spots. However, they have upgraded in other areas where we haven't. That's the big difference. I think we're going to be awesome in a couple of years, but I think we're in for another year of alot of rookie and young guy mistakes.


The packers haven't upgraded? Do you only consider upgrading to be via FAs only, and not via young players improving?

Compared to 2005, the O-line should be better and deeper, the d-line is much better, starting linebackers much better and the d-backs much better and deeper. Punting is better, kicking is better.

For the most part, I expect that all of those will be better than they were in 2006, too. I also expect the receivers to be improved over 2006, certainly deeper than 2006. All aspects of the defense should be better, including nickel and dime play.

[GBRulz]

The packers haven't upgraded? Do you only consider upgrading to be via FAs only, and not via young players improving?

Compared to 2005, the O-line should be better and deeper, the d-line is much better, starting linebackers much better and the d-backs much better and deeper. Punting is better, kicking is better.

For the most part, I expect that all of those will be better than they were in 2006, too. I also expect the receivers to be improved over 2006, certainly deeper than 2006. All aspects of the defense should be better, including nickel and dime play.

Of course the players are going to continue to develop. Take the OL and learning the ZBS for example...They are perfecting technique vs learning the system, like last year. They are already way ahead. I'm not comparing the team from two years ago. I'm saying last year. IMO, our #1 weakness was the TE's and no, I don't see where we've upgraded in that area.

Whether you agree with letting Green go or not, the RB hole is our biggest question mark for this year, so no - I don't feel we've upgraded that, either. Now, maybe in two years Jackson will turn out to be pretty good, I'm certainly hoping for that as we all are.

No, FA isn't the only way to upgrade a team, but it certainly can help address problem areas sooner then waiting for a rookie to possibly develop.

[HarveyWallbangers]

If the OL blocks, I don't see RB as being a huge issue with Morency, Jackson, and Herron.

At TE, I'm not convinced that Bubba is his old self, but there are signs that he may be. If he is, we are the same at that position as we have been for 7 years, and better than last year. Bubba was awful last year. If the OL can block with needing as much help, then that will allow the TEs to be used in the passing game more.

I'm actually worried about 3 things, more than anything: 1) OL, 2) the health of Harris and Woodson, 3) Bigby. Last year, we had to have a dozen or more things go absolute right to be decent. This year, I don't see as many ifs. If these 3 things happen, we'll be pretty darn good. The OL needs to be solid, and not just pass blocking. The starting corners need to stay healthy. Bigby needs to be a big improvement on Manuel.

[PackerBlues]

First of all, to say that "every team has a position that is bad", is no excuse to leave a position bad, without trying to improve it if at all possible. That being said, I agree with Harvey, that the Packers success in the running game is going to depend more on our O-lines ability to open holes/running lanes, than it will depend on who we have playing the RB position. No holes/running lanes, no running game. Of the running backs we have, I actually think that Herron may prove to be the most consistant, or at least, we have no proof that he wouldn't be when compared to Morency and Jackson.

As for Bubba, I dont think he ever lost a step, I think that he has always been a slacker. At the end of the year before his contract was up, we saw Bubba make some great plays over the middle for long yardage. He signed his contract, and went right back to being mediocre. This year, the team smartly removed Bubba from the starting TE position, and it looks like he may be playing with some effort again.

[superfan]

Anybody watch him carve up the Cowgirls in the first half?

Anybody else find it funny that a thread that started with this simple phrase has generated (as of now) almost 140 posts and almost 1500 views?

I think people are ready for some football.

[HarveyWallbangers]

I think people are ready for some football.

I'm ready. Leave work!
:D