Would Sherman have drafted Hawk at #5?

[MadtownPacker]

I was thinking about this. Remember Sherman never had a higher picker then #20, walker I believe. Would he have picked Hawk this past weekend?
I have to say no, he would have went with someone else. Who though?

[MJZiggy]

Davis or a wideout. Maybe a guard. Hee Hee.

[Deputy Nutz]

He would have gone with Davis. Probably would have traded up to get him.

[Guiness]

Ok, it's fun to speculate...

Since NO was a willing dance partner, he would've sent them the #5, our second rounder, JW and next year's first round pick for the #2. Sound about right?

[Scott Campbell]

I was thinking about this. Remember Sherman never had a higher picker then #20, walker I believe. Would he have picked Hawk this past weekend?
I have to say no, he would have went with someone else. Who though?


Sherman would have traded Walker, the #5, and a 3rd rounder for the number 1 pick in the draft.

And yes, he then would have drafted Hawk.

[Pack0514]

He would have gone with Davis. Probably would have traded up to get him.

hilarious! :lol:

[ND72]

he would have drafted Hawk. Sherman, year in and year out, drafted based on need, and LB was our greatest need position.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

Sherman the great would trade the 5th overall pick, Walker (assuming that he remained disgruntled even under Sherman, which is unlikely because Sherman would've extended Walker's contract after he made the Pro Bowl) , a 4th rd pick and a 07 conditional pick to Oakland for Moss and the 7th overall pick.

Sherman would draft Michael Huff.

[ND72]

even sherman wasn't that retarded.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

even sherman wasn't that retarded.

The only one retarded is thompson, who had the opportunty to do what I just wrote and did not.

I mean, Moss would not only help Favre and the Packers win the SB this year, he'd make Rodgers look like Tom Brady for years to come. All Rodgers would have to do is toss the ball up and Moss would do the rest.

Huff would do more for the Pack than Hawk.

[MJZiggy]

Sherman the great would trade the 5th overall pick, Walker (assuming that he remained disgruntled even under Sherman, which is unlikely because Sherman would've extended Walker's contract after he made the Pro Bowl) , a 4th rd pick and a 07 conditional pick to Oakland for Moss and the 7th overall pick.

Sherman would draft Michael Huff.

Javon Walker made the pro bowl in 2004. Sherman the Great had plenty of time to extend his contract before Thompson took over a year later and he didn't do it. Find me the article or scrap of information that tells me the Oakland would have wanted to move up in the draft because all indications I've seen point to the fact that they had no reason to trade with us--Maybe with Tennessee, but not with us. Now Pay UP.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

Sherman the great would trade the 5th overall pick, Walker (assuming that he remained disgruntled even under Sherman, which is unlikely because Sherman would've extended Walker's contract after he made the Pro Bowl) , a 4th rd pick and a 07 conditional pick to Oakland for Moss and the 7th overall pick.

Sherman would draft Michael Huff.

Javon Walker made the pro bowl in 2004. Sherman the Great had plenty of time to extend his contract before Thompson took over a year later and he didn't do it. Find me the article or scrap of information that tells me the Oakland would have wanted to move up in the draft because all indications I've seen point to the fact that they had no reason to trade with us--Maybe with Tennessee, but not with us. Now Pay UP.

What are you taking about? Walker made the Pro Bowl the same year Bob Harlan lost his mind and demoted Sherman. Pack were $9-11 M over coming into the 05 season, which means Sherman would've to take care of Wahle and Sharper's contracts first (Cut Wahle, and then immediately sign him to a new contract; extend or restructure Sharper's contract). If Sherman can "overpaid" Diggs and KGB in the same off-season with around only $3M of cap space, no reason he couldnt do what i stated.

Acquiring the #5 from the Pack would give Oakland more power to move up to the 2nd spot to get Vince Young. I am sure Al Davis was praying Young fell to him at #7, as some draft expert predicted; but also knew that Tenn was high on Young.

[MJZiggy]

You're right about the year. Oops. How are you going to get Mike Wahle to sign the contract after you cut him?

[Anti-Polar Bear]

You're right about the year. Oops. How are you going to get Mike Wahle to sign the contract after you cut him?

Hand Wahle a $12 M SB. That or wait til Carolina come into the picture and then outbid them.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

Here's what the top 5 picks would look like had Pack traded for Moss and Oak in turn trade the pick they got from Pack to NO for the 2nd Pick:

1. Hou Williams
2. Oak Young
3. Tenn Lienart
4. NYJ Bush
5. NO Hawk

[MJZiggy]

You're right about the year. Oops. How are you going to get Mike Wahle to sign the contract after you cut him?

Hand Wahle a $12 M SB. That or wait til Carolina come into the picture and then outbid them.

What if he doesn't care that you outbid them and signs with Carolina anyway?

Where does the $12 mil come from?

[Anti-Polar Bear]

You're right about the year. Oops. How are you going to get Mike Wahle to sign the contract after you cut him?

Hand Wahle a $12 M SB. That or wait til Carolina come into the picture and then outbid them.

What if he doesn't care that you outbid them and signs with Carolina anyway?

Where does the $12 mil come from?

MJ you need to read my achieves. But i will repeat the answers to your questions anyway.

The reason Wahle left Pack for Carolina is for more money. Every JSO article ive read states that Pack couldve paid wahle his 6 mil roster bonus but he would likely test the FA market because he could get more money. Just because Wahle is a FA, doesnt mean he couldnt sign with the Pack. 12 Mil in SB would be more than the 11.5 M Carolina gave him.

[MJZiggy]

Assuming he's willing to take it, where does the money come from?

[Anti-Polar Bear]

Assuming he's willing to take it, where does the money come from?

Revenue sharing, TV contracts, money pool; whatever the NFL/Packers calls it. There's plenty of money to go around, especally when networks are paying the NFL billions of dollars in rights fees.

[MJZiggy]

We were kissing the cap. Where do you get the cap room?

[Anti-Polar Bear]

We were kissing the cap. Where do you get the cap room?

Cutting Wahle and Sharper resulted in Pack having a surplus of $7.5 M. Franks signing saved the Pack about $2 M. Cutting Hunt before TC would give the Pack about 1.8M more. Total: Approx.$11.3-4 Mil Rookie pool = 7.3 Mil to spend.

Resign Wahle and Sharper to contract friendly contracts.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

Remember, Sherman was able to resign Diggs and KGB to new contracts with aprox $3M at the start of the FA period, KGB got a 13 M SB.

[OS PA]

Remember, Sherman was able to resign Diggs and KGB to new contracts with aprox $3M at the start of the FA period, KGB got a 13 M SB.

Too bad Diggs and KGB were already under contract, if i'm not correct please tell me so, but Sharper and Wahle are under contracts for other teams, and can not be offered contracts to play for us.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

Remember, Sherman was able to resign Diggs and KGB to new contracts with aprox $3M at the start of the FA period, KGB got a 13 M SB.

Too bad Diggs and KGB were already under contract, if i'm not correct please tell me so, but Sharper and Wahle are under contracts for other teams, and can not be offered contracts to play for us.

When they were cut and became FAs, they can sign with any team in the NFL, including the Packers.

For a more current example, see how St. Louis released Iassic Bruce to help their cap situation and then immediately re-signed him.

[MJZiggy]

Except that he didn't want to sign here...

[mraynrand]

"Except that he didn't want to sign here..."

Diggs didn't 'want' to dign with GB either - until the money was right. Wave 12 mil in front of Wahle's face, promise him the cover on the Packer Magazine, and he would have signed for sure.

Whale made the pro bowl because of his new contract. he actually played worse for Carolina than for the Pack. This happens a lot - Adam Timmerman had the same thing happen to him - he got the big press and the big FA contract so everyone assumed he must be good.

Wahle would have been a happy camper in GB with his 12 mil SB (that would have been pro-rated over his contract period).

TT could have signed Wahle if he wanted to - it was possible. It was the one major screw-up of his GM tenure so far.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

Except that he didn't want to sign here...

Then he didnt want to play for Thompson. Then thompson is like a college coach who fails to recruit a top prospect. There are environmental factors, but if you are really a good GM, you should be able to lure certain players with exceptional talent to your team. You cant get everyone but you should be able to get least get 3 with $35Mil.

I'm goin to take a nap. Been up all nite.

[GrnBay007]

Future.......lets focus on the future peeps!! :wink:

[Patler]

"Except that he didn't want to sign here..."

Diggs didn't 'want' to dign with GB either - until the money was right. Wave 12 mil in front of Wahle's face, promise him the cover on the Packer Magazine, and he would have signed for sure.

Whale made the pro bowl because of his new contract. he actually played worse for Carolina than for the Pack. This happens a lot - Adam Timmerman had the same thing happen to him - he got the big press and the big FA contract so everyone assumed he must be good.

Wahle would have been a happy camper in GB with his 12 mil SB (that would have been pro-rated over his contract period).

TT could have signed Wahle if he wanted to - it was possible. It was the one major screw-up of his GM tenure so far.

Wasn't Diggs a Restricted Free Agent? GB matched the Lions offer. In the newspapers, Diggs openly begged GB not to match and let him leave. I don't believe Diggs had any option but to return to GB.

[MadtownPacker]

Very good point Tank about Sherman likely doing whatever to keep walker. I think he truly loved his players and sometimes that hurt him. Business needs to be seperated from friendships.

[MJZiggy]

Except that he didn't want to sign here...

Then he didnt want to play for Thompson. Then thompson is like a college coach who fails to recruit a top prospect. There are environmental factors, but if you are really a good GM, you should be able to lure certain players with exceptional talent to your team. You cant get everyone but you should be able to get least get 3 with $35Mil.

I'm goin to take a nap. Been up all nite.

Or he didn't want to play for Sherman and his happy band of disgruntled coordinators and coaches...He plays for Sherman, not Thompson.

[RashanGary]

Thompson could have resigned Wahle......He was asked one time if he lost Wahle as a cap casualty and Thompson said and I'm paraphrasing here "We try not the cap influence our decisions too much. There are things that can be done"

Something like that anyway...I remember going away thinking that Thompson let Wahle go because he diddn't feel like that was a fair salary for an OG....To date I think that is Thompsons only real mistake. Being a GM is all about making mistakes and good decisions. Thompsons good way out number the bad, esspecially after this draft and his philosophy on building a team is awsome so I don't beat him up too much for losing Wahle but I do think he could have kept him...

I've said before though that if we had kept Wahle we wouldn't have A.J. Hawk for the next 10 years. It turned out for the best, esspecially if Colledge plays like I think he will and Favre sticks it out for antoher year.

[mraynrand]

The point about Diggs is that he was happy when GB signed him to the max he could get.

The point about the future, 007, is whether TT will budge on his philosophy apparently) of setting a value for a player and sticking with it no matter what. so far, he seems to be completely consistent on this. The question is - under what circumstance might TT violate his own philosophy?

[Homer Jay]

So, Tank, whose fault was the fiasco with MIke Mac? As I recall sherman was still inn charge tten.

[motife]

Sherman would have traded up into the 2nd pick, drafted a punter, but not play him this year while keeping him on the roster. Another punter would do the punting.

[esoxx]

"Diggs didn't 'want' to dign with GB either - until the money was right."

Actually, Diggs didn't want to re-sign here. Since he was designated a transition player, the Packers had the right to match what Detroit offered. They chose to match that, despite pleas from Diggs that they not.

[Scott Campbell]

Except that he didn't want to sign here...

Then he didnt want to play for Thompson. Then thompson is like a college coach who fails to recruit a top prospect. There are environmental factors, but if you are really a good GM, you should be able to lure certain players with exceptional talent to your team. You cant get everyone but you should be able to get least get 3 with $35Mil.

I'm goin to take a nap. Been up all nite.

Wahle had been dropping hints for years that he didn't want to be here, and that he didn't think that he was appreciated by the previous Sherman regime. All of this went on long before Thompson entered the picture - including the baloon payment contract clause that ultimately forced his release. Do you think Wahle might have negotiated that in to force the Packers to release him on purpose?

[esoxx]

As for the thread question "Would Sherman have drafted Hawk at #5?"....only if his name was Gaylord Hawk - a left legged pooch punter who somehow had won the Ray Guy Award his senior season.

[mraynrand]

""Diggs didn't 'want' to dign with GB either - until the money was right."

Actually, Diggs didn't want to re-sign here. Since he was designated a transition player, the Packers had the right to match what Detroit offered. They chose to match that, despite pleas from Diggs that they not."


*sigh*

Don't you get it? He was unhappy because the Packers weren't going to give him what he thought he was worth. He tested the waters, got the beat offer available and the Packers then signed him. After that, he didn't complain one bit. It was about the money (and the contract is important to NFL players for props as much as it is for the coin itself).

So I argue that Wahle would have been the same. Show him the money, put his mug on a gameday mag and he would have been happy as a clam.

[mraynrand]

BTW, regarding the original question - if Shermy thought that they could still win it all with Favre as QB, he would have drafted Hawk - this fits with Shermy's philosophy of getting guys who can start right away, because Sherman seemed to care more about winning now than building for the future.

If he had given up on Favre (unlikely), then he might have traded up to get the next franchise guy - Bush or Young (assuming Shermy wouldn't have drafted A rod in 2005).

[esoxx]

mraynrand, I'm a little slow. You'll have to bear with me.

[Homer Jay]

Remember, Sherman was able to resign Diggs and KGB to new contracts with aprox $3M at the start of the FA period, KGB got a 13 M SB.

Which one of those pro bowl, future hall of fame players would you say was the best signing Tank? I'm not sure giving those two players way too much money is your best example of Sherman's genius.

[GoPackGo]

I was thinking about this. Remember Sherman never had a higher picker then #20, walker I believe. Would he have picked Hawk this past weekend?
I have to say no, he would have went with someone else. Who though?

He just went with Mario Wlliams duh :roll:

[Tarlam!]

The hypothetical is valid: I say, no, he would have traded up. He would have gone for either Mario or Bush. I don't know if he would have taken Davis; his play book didn't really require a threat TE, except in the Red Zone.

Drfting Davis would not have helped his system.

But, this scenario asks us to ignore last season, which would have turned out differently.

As Tank insists, we would have kept our guards. We would NOT have drafted A-Rod.

We may have won 3 games more with the guards, because the injuries killed us the most, not the loss of our o-line.

Not having A-Ro, Brett prolly in his last year, we would have drafted the big 3 QB that fell to us at our 7-9 spot. Sherm may have traded up to get him, like Shanahan did.

[retailguy]

he would have drafted Hawk. Sherman, year in and year out, drafted based on need, and LB was our greatest need position.

I agree. Sherman would have stayed put and taken Hawk.

He'd have traded up later in the draft. Without a doubt. We'd have ultimately drafted 5 players... instead of 12.

[retailguy]

Remember, Sherman was able to resign Diggs and KGB to new contracts with aprox $3M at the start of the FA period, KGB got a 13 M SB.

Which one of those pro bowl, future hall of fame players would you say was the best signing Tank? I'm not sure giving those two players way too much money is your best example of Sherman's genius.

Pack,

I think your point is NOT valid. Signing KGB was a necessity because the biggest thing Sherman lacked at the time was a pass rushing DE to complement KGB. He could NOT lose him too. Joe Johnson was brought in to compensate for the Jamal Reynolds bust. Joe got hurt and never played to his potential. Hunt was the "better" gamble between him and Vonnie Holiday. Both ultimately stunk, however, you had to take the chance on one of them. One of the three (Johnson, Reynolds, Hunt) needed to perform as a pass rusher for the defensive scheme to be effective. None performed and the scheme was not effective.

As for Diggs, at the time he was a very good player who fit the defensive system. When Donnatel was let go, Diggs was not a good fit for Slow-wit's system and he was WAY TOO SLOW for Bates system.

Diggs will play well in Carolina. While he has lost a step, he's still a very good football player.

Lambasting a coach for players that ultimately get cut is pretty lame. Diggs was cut because his salary spiked in the last couple years of the deal sherman matched, and he was hurt and didn't fit the "new" system. It has NOTHING to do with whether or not Diggs is a good football player, OR more importantly why he was signed in 2003.

KGB is what he is, a good one dimensional pass rusher who gives everything he has. There is nothing wrong with the contract he signed or the production that he gives. The problem is that he is too small and lines up too wide in the run game to be effective. By today's standards,and the standards at the time his contract was signed he is NOT overpaid.

[MateoInMex]

Charmin would have traded the #5, Javon Walker, a 3rd rounder for a pair of shovels and a wheelbarrow along with a FREE PASS TO THE RIO CASINO'S SEAFOOD BUFFET!

[swede]

Hey Mateo!

Very funny, and good to see you posting here.


Get another pic of that Univision Weather-Chick for an avatar, would you please.


Ella fue muy excitante! Ahora, miro channel 69 cada dia muy temprano para ver este chica.

[MJZiggy]

How nice that you're studying your Spanish, Swede! :razz:

[Homer Jay]

Remember, Sherman was able to resign Diggs and KGB to new contracts with aprox $3M at the start of the FA period, KGB got a 13 M SB.

Which one of those pro bowl, future hall of fame players would you say was the best signing Tank? I'm not sure giving those two players way too much money is your best example of Sherman's genius.

Pack,

I think your point is NOT valid. Signing KGB was a necessity because the biggest thing Sherman lacked at the time was a pass rushing DE to complement KGB. He could NOT lose him too. Joe Johnson was brought in to compensate for the Jamal Reynolds bust. Joe got hurt and never played to his potential. Hunt was the "better" gamble between him and Vonnie Holiday. Both ultimately stunk, however, you had to take the chance on one of them. One of the three (Johnson, Reynolds, Hunt) needed to perform as a pass rusher for the defensive scheme to be effective. None performed and the scheme was not effective.

As for Diggs, at the time he was a very good player who fit the defensive system. When Donnatel was let go, Diggs was not a good fit for Slow-wit's system and he was WAY TOO SLOW for Bates system.

Diggs will play well in Carolina. While he has lost a step, he's still a very good football player.

Lambasting a coach for players that ultimately get cut is pretty lame. Diggs was cut because his salary spiked in the last couple years of the deal sherman matched, and he was hurt and didn't fit the "new" system. It has NOTHING to do with whether or not Diggs is a good football player, OR more importantly why he was signed in 2003.

KGB is what he is, a good one dimensional pass rusher who gives everything he has. There is nothing wrong with the contract he signed or the production that he gives. The problem is that he is too small and lines up too wide in the run game to be effective. By today's standards,and the standards at the time his contract was signed he is NOT overpaid.

You can spin it any way that you want. The fact remains that we over spent for both. I also think the arguement could be made that Holliday would have been the better player to keep. IMO. was it a good idea to overpay for a player who didn't fit the system? I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.