Painful moment

[Kiwon]

Miss Teen South Carolina makes a case for homeschooling.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qQdhMSEqhfg

In all fairness to her, she said that she didn't hear the question clearly.

[oregonpackfan]

Kiwon,

Are you saying that Home-schooled kids are naturally superior to public-schooled children.

As a third grade teacher, I have had a number of students whose parents tried home-schooling their children but brought them to public school because they realized it was too difficult. Every one of those kids was below average in their achievement!

While some parents do an admirable job in home-schooling, it is far more difficult a challenge than most people realize.

[GoPackGo]

what a complicated answer for such a simple question! safe to say thats she's all looks and no brains

[Deputy Nutz]

Ummmm, Such as, Us US Americans, such as South Africans, like ya, hat the fuck is the question? can you say it again?

What the fuck is a map?

Home school is South Carolina can't be any worse than South Carolina Public School.

[Zool]

By God, someone shine a flashlight to see if her pupils move. I think she has a head injury. Say such as like 6 more times.

[Kiwon]

Kiwon,

Are you saying that Home-schooled kids are naturally superior to public-schooled children.

As a third grade teacher, I have had a number of students whose parents tried home-schooling their children but brought them to public school because they realized it was too difficult. Every one of those kids was below average in their achievement!

While some parents do an admirable job in home-schooling, it is far more difficult a challenge than most people realize.

No, I'm saying that Elvis is running a Dunkin Donuts on Mars. What’s the matter with you? Starbucks mess up your order?

1. The focus of the post is the girl's goofy answer. Did you watch the clip? Tell me you were not tempted to make some blond jokes.

2. You're already retired, right? Why are you so touchy about our failed American school system? You're not an active NEA official, are you? Homeschooling is no threat to you.

3. Yes, I'll grant you that public school kids learn valuable things like how to put a condom on a cucumber, that "Heather Has Two Mommies," that gay penguins exist, that Al Gore is the most caring person on the planet, and the best ways to give Lewinskis. But I don't think there is anything wrong with motivated parents who choose to teach their own kids.

It used to be the norm back before public education was mandatory. Many of our early leaders were schooled in Latin and Greek at home and then entered college in their early teens. Advanced students tutored the others. It was a joint effort.

Today, the national Spelling and Geography Bee winners are often homeschoolers. They're smart kids who would often be bored in a standard school. Most importantly, homeschooling parents really care for their kids and are willing to sacrifice time and, often, a second job to make time to help educate them properly.

The proof is in the pudding and the fact is homeschoolers do very well on standardized achievement tests. And there are tons of good resources produced by talented educators that are available for parents to use. That’s one reason it’s such a growing phenomenon.

4. You're right. Homeschooling isn't easy. Many parents are not emotionally cut out for it or need both spouses working to make ends meet. But some parents who do try homeschooling are thrilled with the results. My family has had 4 years of experience with it (elementary school level) and it was very rewarding. Our kids went public, homeschooling, then public again and are doing just fine.

5. 25% of Americans didn't read a book last year. My two crumb crunchers who have been warped by their home school experience each probably read over 50 books last year, even some with big words in them.

Finally, your experience is your experience, but you just can't extrapolate from that and stereotype. I, personally, have been impressed by most of the homeschooling families I’ve seen. Not all, but most.

Now, whether Miss Teen South Carolina is a product of the South Carolina public school system (a state I know very well) or not, I don’t know. She really blew that question, though. She’s a pretty girl, but that was very painful to listen to.

[Kiwon]

Yhello?

Average SAT scores are lowest since '99

http://www.usatoday.com/news/education/2007-08-28-sat-score_N.htm

[Scott Campbell]

Yhello?

Average SAT scores are lowest since '99

http://www.usatoday.com/news/education/2007-08-28-sat-score_N.htm


Dang, that looks like one of Shermy's draft classes.

[Kiwon]

What was Javon Walker's Wonderlic score again?

[Jimx29]

Second chance for the airhead:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070828/ap_on_re_us/miss_teen_south_carolina

[oregonpackfan]

Kiwon,

If you go back to your original post, your statement automatically assumed she was educated or "miseducated" in public schools. As you stated in your response, you really did not know she was a product of public schools.

1. Now, whether Miss Teen South Carolina is a product of the South Carolina public school system (a state I know very well) or not, I don’t know. She really blew that question, though.

I will be the first to agree with you that her response was very rambling and hardly answered the original question. Yes, it was indeed very "painful" to listen to her response.

2. You're already retired, right? Why are you so touchy about our failed American school system? You're not an active NEA official, are you? Homeschooling is no threat to you.

Yes, I am retired but that does not mean I am no longer interested in the present or future status of American public education. As an American, I feel strongly that one of the areas that helped America grow as a strong nation is allowing its citizens access to universal public education.

It is my belief that proponents of financial vouchers for private and/or religious schools have an agenda of catering to the upper or financial elite segments of our society. Why worry about the quality of public education for the middle class, working class, or the poor when we can focus primarily on the education of the upper class?

If someone wishes to send their child to a quality private or parochial school, I have no problem with that premise. I do have problems, however, but those who believe the government should provide vouchers from tax dollars for that child's education.

3. Yes, I'll grant you that public school kids learn valuable things like how to put a condom on a cucumber, that "Heather Has Two Mommies," that gay penguins exist, that Al Gore is the most caring person on the planet, and the best ways to give Lewinskis.

That statement above is a pathetic generalization of public education. Even you have to admit that, Kiwon.

But I don't think there is anything wrong with motivated parents who choose to teach their own kids.

I also concur that people do have the right to educate their own kids. I state again it is extremely difficult to provide a solid well-rounded education for kids.

As a trained and experienced elementary education teacher, I believe I could do a very good job of home-schooling my child at that level. I will state, however, that I would be hardly qualified to home-school at the middle or high school level. My child would not be receiving the benefit of learning from other teachers more qualified at those academic areas.

What bothers me about a number of home-school parents is the rather cavalier attitude many of them have about education. It is almost them stating, "Anyone can teach all the academic areas one needs to know from grades K-12! Training or experience are irrelevant! factors in teaching a child."

Adequately home-schooling someone from K-12 CAN be done but it is far more difficult than one believes.

It used to be the norm back before public education was mandatory. Many of our early leaders were schooled in Latin and Greek at home and then entered college in their early teens. Advanced students tutored the others. It was a joint effort.

Is the world today the same as it was years ago? Hardly. Many things have changed. Knowledge and skills have increased exponentially and are still increasing.


The proof is in the pudding and the fact is homeschoolers do very well on standardized achievement tests.

Standardized achievement tests are just a snapshot in a complete education for children. Unfortunately, many politicians, school board members, and parents, view standardized testing as the be all, and end all assessments of learning.

Any standardized test needs to be thoroughly statistically normed for both vailidity(the test measures the academic area it is supposed to measure) and reliability(the test accurately measures what it is supposed to measure).

Many of the standarized tests recommended by the National Leave No Child Behind Act are not normed for validity or reliability. Yet our Federal government is deciding which schools are deeded "Adequate" or "inadequate" exclusively on the result of those tests.

Standardized testing does not assess areas such as creative writing, analytical math problem-solving, critical thinking, or working together in small groups. Those skills are vital in the workplace.

The academic skill of students working together in small groups is one weakness of home-schooling. The child is often eduated alone or with 1 sibling. In the "Real world" workplace, employees are often collaborating on projects.

25% of Americans didn't read a book last year.

I agree that is a huge concern for America. Americans do need to read more often and read a greater variety of reading material. There is no evidence or study showing that home-schoolers read more books than publicly educated children.

Finally, your experience is your experience, but you just can't extrapolate from that and stereotype.

My 23 years of teaching experience was not just limited to just the 25+ students I taught every year. It meant working with and sharing thoughts and practices with other teachers not only in my school but in schools across the country. I have also read reports of other areas of eduation be it private schools, home schools and education throughout the world.

One guiding principle of education I believe in is to respect the unique qualities and learning styles of each student. Because each child is unique, there is on one "Right" educational format that applies equally to all children be it public education, private education, or home-schooling.

[packinpatland]

I'll admit that I don't know alot about home schooling. What I do know from experience is that social interaction can be as important as book learning.
Furture employers may forgive or overlook a misspelled word, improper grammar, but they usually are not tolerant of social blunders.

[BallHawk]

What was Javon Walker's Wonderlic score again?

It was a 9. The same as James Jones'.

The morale of the story is....

Select WR with low wonderlics every once in a while, especially if it's a 9.

It pays off.
:D

[Tyrone Bigguns]

You guys are idiots. Who cares what she says..SHE IS HOT.

You don't expect girls/women like that to have brains. The intelligence portion of any pageant is a joke.

[LL2]

You guys are idiots. Who cares what she says..SHE IS HOT.

You don't expect girls/women like that to have brains. The intelligence portion of any pageant is a joke.

I agree. Judge her for her looks and body. Are there any pics of her that can be sent to the GC?

[falco]

5. 25% of Americans didn't read a book last year. My two crumb crunchers who have been warped by their home school experience each probably read over 50 books last year, even some with big words in them.

http://www.king-george.biz/images/A_Charge_to_Keep.jpg

[Kiwon]

One guiding principle of education I believe in is to respect the unique qualities and learning styles of each student. Because each child is unique, there is on one "Right" educational format that applies equally to all children be it public education, private education, or home-schooling.

This is the best thing you wrote.

You do realize that you are taking a light-hearted thread and making it into something serious, right?

I know that somewhere deep down that you have a sense of humor. It's okay to show it.

Actually, I really would like to have an on-going discussion of these kinds of issues with a professional educator like you but obviously this isn't the forum to do it. Can you suggest another?

I'm a big advocate of doing what's best for the child based on his/her particular needs, learning style, etc. All options should be available to parents. Certainly, homeschooling is probably not the right choice for most parents. And most parents can't make the time and financial sacrifices to do it even if they wanted to. Also, I would say few homeschoolers do K-12. They usually enter public or private school during the Middle and High School years.

Now, one thing......the elitist bit sounds like a NEA talking point. It's clear that you don't know many homeschooling parents.

Parents want educational and school choices. The NEA wants the government to dictate to parents where and what their children will learn. "No" to parental choice and "yes" to the teachers union and tenured teachers with guaranteed salary and benefits whether they produce educated kids or not. What a racket! What other industry guarantees the employment of those who fail to produce? Parents look at that and want to escape failing schools and an educational system that refuses to reform itself.

The main message I get from your response (in contrast to your last sentence) is that only the government and the NEA are suitable to program, I mean, teach our kids. I simply don't agree.

Choose another forum so we don't bore everyone else and let's discuss this further if you like.

[Joemailman]

So an 18-year-old got nervous and gave a dumb rambling answer. Big deal. Leave her alone.

[Harlan Huckleby]

They played it twice on Letterman. I thought it was a bit much to humiliate a young kid so.

On Letterman they said she was 16. Now that mailman informs me she's street legal, it's not QUITE so nasty. Hopefully she'll laugh about it in the future. BTW, I don't think she was necessarily dumb, anybody could get flustered, and then get even more nervous as you start saying stupid stuff. Happens on this forum on a daily basis.

Oh ya. It was funny.

[falco]

Was she talking in the clip? I didn't notice.

[Kiwon]

Yeah, this girl got ragged on a bit, but look at all the positive notoriety she's received.

Everybody agrees that she's beautiful and the added exposure will definitely help her career.

She lost the battle but won the war. Good for her.

[Harlan Huckleby]

now if she can just get a sex tape on the internet she could be a millionairess.

But she must act quickly, her 15 minutes are nearly up.

[oregonpackfan]

Kiwon,

Re: your statement of:

The main message I get from your response (in contrast to your last sentence) is that only the government and the NEA are suitable to program, I mean, teach our kids. I simply don't agree.

Where in the heck in my response did you get the message that "Only the government and the NEA are suitable to teach our kids?" Talk about putting words in my mouth! Go back and re-read my statements. Not once did I use the words "Government" or "NEA."

Let us 1. Agree to disagree and 2. Avoid filling up this forum with discussions about public education.

[Kiwon]

Okey-doke.

[MadtownPacker]

You guys are idiots. Who cares what she says..SHE IS HOT.

You don't expect girls/women like that to have brains. The intelligence portion of any pageant is a joke.As always (not really) the voice of reason speaks.

To think some of these posters where drooling all over that "Heros" plain-looking chick yet they want to bash on this fine honey.

Bunch of maricons.

[the_idle_threat]

You guys are idiots. Who cares what she says..SHE IS HOT.

You don't expect girls/women like that to have brains. The intelligence portion of any pageant is a joke.As always (not really) the voice of reason speaks.

To think some of these posters where drooling all over that "Heros" plain-looking chick yet they want to bash on this fine honey.

Bunch of maricons.

Quite frankly, I don't see much of a difference between the two.

[Deputy Nutz]

Home school kids frighten me, Mostly because they come from those freaky over the top Christian families that attend the non-denominational churches. They have very little concept of reality or real world, and a bit naive. Outside of their sheltered lives they would be eaten alive by American society.

[LEWCWA]

looks like Nutz is looking for a social lashing!

[MadtownPacker]

Quite frankly, I don't see much of a difference between the two.
http://vnexpress.net/Vietnam/Van-hoa/2007/08/3B9F99A4/teen-26.jpg http://www.grandesestrellas.com/imgcontent/galleries/STAR2470/hayden-panettiere-16999.jpeg

[Deputy Nutz]

looks like Nutz is looking for a social lashing!

I have broad shoulders, I can take it and not cry like a little bitch. I stand by what I say, Home School kids can be fucked up.

[the_idle_threat]

Quite frankly, I don't see much of a difference between the two.
http://vnexpress.net/Vietnam/Van-hoa/2007/08/3B9F99A4/teen-26.jpg http://www.grandesestrellas.com/imgcontent/galleries/STAR2470/hayden-panettiere-16999.jpeg

Yes, I can see it now. The gal on the left is definitely hotter than the little red X on the right. :D

[LaFours]

Home school kids frighten me, Mostly because they come from those freaky over the top Christian families that attend the non-denominational churches. They have very little concept of reality or real world, and a bit naive. Outside of their sheltered lives they would be eaten alive by American society.

I know the type. They're not all that bad, but they tend to be very fragile and apparently have a higher probability (non-denominational home-schooled kids coming from "over-the-top" Christian families) of turning out whacko too.

[MadtownPacker]

Yes, I can see it now. The gal on the left is definitely hotter than the little red X on the right. :DIts there, the site must have hotlinking blocked. Just right click and VIEW IMAGE.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Yes, I can see it now. The gal on the left is definitely hotter than the little red X on the right. :DIts there, the site must have hotlinking blocked. Just right click and VIEW IMAGE.

That isn't an option in my browser. Do you beaners have some sorta new browser you ain't sharing wit da gabachos?

[MadtownPacker]

You using Firefox?

[Tyrone Bigguns]

You using Firefox?

No, IE..and i'm very internet savvy. I don't even have the option you suggest.

[BallHawk]

You using Firefox?

No, IE..and i'm very internet savvy. I don't even have the option you suggest.

I just tried do it and you can't do it on IE. You have to use Firefox.

[HarveyWallbangers]

As a web programmer, I just want to reiterate (iterate actually, but that's a different argument) that IE blows.

[Partial]

As a web programmer, I just want to reiterate (iterate actually, but that's a different argument) that IE blows.

2nded. Have you played around with the Safari beta for Windows at all? It crashes too much for my liking and it doesn't have the session manager of the newer versions of FF, but it sure is pretty.

[Harlan Huckleby]

As a web programmer, I just want to reiterate (iterate actually, but that's a different argument) that IE blows.


I'm not so current on this stuff. But for a long time, IE was the salavation of web programmers. IE6 was so much more stable than the alternatives, there was no comparison. And the dirty little secret was that, ya, Microsoft pushed a lot of custom stuff, but they also were WAY out front in implementing vendor-neutral, industry standards.

Harvey, I find it very hard to believe that IE has tumbled so far.
Perhaps you are just referring to security issues.

[Partial]

As a web programmer, I just want to reiterate (iterate actually, but that's a different argument) that IE blows.


I'm not so current on this stuff. But for a long time, IE was the salavation of web programmers. IE6 was so much more stable than the alternatives, there was no comparison. And the dirty little secret was that, ya, Microsoft pushed a lot of custom stuff, but they also were WAY out front in implementing vendor-neutral, industry standards.

Harvey, I find it very hard to believe that IE has tumbled so far.
Perhaps you are just referring to security issues.

IE6 wasn't even close in following standards than Netscape.

[Freak Out]

First off....Dubya makes the same type of blunders South Carolina girl did every fucking day so lay off...she will be replaced before he will. :lol:
...and she is smoking hot. :twisted:

I use firefox for all browser related activities except for a certain webmail app that I have to use for a contract I have..I've used Safari but only on a mac. Speaking of macs Partial....how the fuck do I change the default program for pdfs from preview to acrobat reader? When I try change the "open with" menu all it shows is preview.

Thanks Mr. Mac

[Partial]

I use firefox for all browser related activities except for a certain webmail app that I have to use for a contract I have..I've used Safari but only on a mac. Speaking of macs Partial....how the fuck do I change the default program for pdfs from preview to acrobat reader? When I try change the "open with" menu all it shows is preview.

Thanks Mr. Mac

I am not sure, I don't use Adobe Acrobat Reader. I would imagine it would be in the preferences in Adobe Acrobat that sets it to be the default application launched when that file type is selected.

[swede]

Point One: That girl is very pretty. I am with Harlan. It's pretty funny except when you think of her hurt feelings for having gotten national attention for becoming muddled and panicked in front of a large audience.

Point Two: Kiwon, you took a cheap shot at public schools. We educate the kids you send us, and a whole lot of people treat a free public education as if it's actually free. It isn't. It requires effort. If you home-school your children then you must surely do so out of love and concern. However, public school teachers must regularly clean up the mess when a certain proportion of home-schooing parents abandon the effort because they grew bored with the task or found themselves unprepared. I am quite familiar with home-schooling families that have done a marvelous job, and I know many others that botched the effort. American parents nonetheless deserve the right to try if they wish.

Point Three: True political conservatives like me know that George Bush has been a disaster for conservatism except for his continuing pressure on the Islamofascists and his appointments to the Supreme Court. I voted for him twice and I still can't stand it when he opens his mouth. In a cowardly manner he ignored the border issue and signed the No Child Left Behind Act which created a monster that threatens to swallow up public education and spit out a meaningless garble of fragmented charter schools and centralized moron factories.

True conservatives would know better than to create government policies and government agencies to solve problems from which they are both distant and unfamiliar. NCLB was a power and money grab that continues to pull power away from states and communities. The Constitution is a finite document that cedes all rights not expressly granted to the federal government back to the states. Education--other than those instances which fall under the civil rights issues of access--is not an area to which the feferal government has ANY CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT.

As that rare breed of teacher AND conservative, I find NCLB to be an unmitigated disaster. The administration of Soviet agriculture under Brezhnev was more efficient and successful than the administration of NCLB has been. All government agencies, including schools are potential money junkies when you come right down to it. The federal government simply has to give you enough money to create dependency. Then they create laws, such as the NCLB, that threatens to take the money away if you don't follow their rules--no matter how asinine or arbitrary. It really ought to be called the Lake Woebegone Act, because by legislative fiat they wave the magic money bag and say that every child will now be PROFICIENT or ADVANCED on the test scores we collect from you or you will LOSE ALL FEDERAL AID. In other words, every child in the United States must now be above average.

States were not allowed to set the bar low either. In Wisconsin, the 3rd Grade reading tests assess students on passages that typically measure at a 4th grade level or higher. So ALL of our 3RD GRADERS have to be PROFICIENT or ADVANCED while being tested on material that is from one to two grade levels beyond their normed age group. Did it ever occur to lawmakers that there happens to be a bell curve when it comes to the distribution of student intelligence? As a teacher I have the skill and ability to teach a six-year old with a typical set of cognitive abilities to read quite proficiently in just a few months. And if the families are supportive it happens even more quickly. I can work the same magic with a child that has a lower set of cognitive abilities, even when their parents don't give a rip, but it may take my colleagues and me anywhere from a few months to a few years longer. I teach within a community where poverty, drug use and crime are quite high. Now what would you expect the distribution of intelligence to reflect in a neighborhood such as this? Compare me and my students to other first-graders around the state and we don't look so good. But come into my classroom and see where my kids begin and see the progress they make in one academic year and I think you would be as proud of my students as I am.

Who would you rather trust with educational issues in your community? The federal government or your state and local educational agencies? Too late. NCLB took that choice away when you weren't looking.