Defensive players are confident

[HarveyWallbangers]

Players confident defense can be NFL's best
By BOB McGINN

Nashville, Tenn. - Under the cover of relative anonymity, the members of the Green Bay Packers' defense positively cannot wait for the start of the regular season.

Coach Mike McCarthy will complete the exhibition season tonight against the Tennessee Titans with his No. 1 defense having been intact for just five series in four games. Ten days from now, that defense will step from the shadows into what some of its members predict will be the glare of greatness.

"Our goal is to be the No. 1 defense in the NFL," defensive tackle Ryan Pickett said earlier in the week. "We think we can do it. Everyone in the room agrees with it. We think we have the talent and we think we have the scheme."

Pickett was 17 years old in 1996 when the Packers led the National Football League both in yards allowed and points allowed. That defense was part of an NFL championship team and was the last group in Green Bay to be considered really dominating.

Based on their level of confidence, the defenders of today expect nothing less of themselves.

"I really think we can be a dominating defense," cornerback Al Harris said. "Hands down. It's so hard to say you're going to get shutouts, but I see us controlling the game on defense."

Baltimore, Jacksonville, Chicago, San Diego, Dallas, Carolina and Pittsburgh might come to the fore when experts name the leading defenses. Green Bay's is thought to have potential.

In its pre-season rankings, Pro Football Weekly gave the Packers' defensive line a C, the linebackers a B-minus and the secondary a B-minus. It was a rather typical view from afar of a unit that was languishing at 29th in yards allowed after 12 games before a fast finish enabled it to rank 12th at year's end.

Now the Packers are primed to show an unsuspecting national audience just how good this defense can and will be.

"I don't think people know what we have." linebacker Nick Barnett said. "We're definitely underestimated, and that's a good thing for us. I think we're going to be a top-10 defense. We want to be a No. 1 defense. It's on us to execute."

Four months from now, Barnett and others can foresee a string of games in which flustered opponents couldn't run the ball, couldn't throw the ball, picked up fewer than 10 first downs and failed to gain even 200 yards.

"Yes, just like the old Baltimore defense did," said Pickett, referring to the Super Bowl championship defense of 2000 that yielded merely 165 points during the regular season and then 23 in four playoff games. "We feel like we can do that."

Do these Packers realize how hard it is to dominate games? Maybe, or maybe that won't be the case until somebody lets the air out of them.

But for now, at least, many of the players couldn't be more bullish about their future.

"Honestly, I feel we have one of the better fronts in the league," Pickett said. "I really feel we have about the best linebackers. And I feel like our secondary is second to none."

Every defender of consequence is back from '06. The worst starter, safety Marquand Manuel, has been replaced by Atari Bigby. For the time being, the draft and free agency offer little help, but veterans suggest not much was needed.

"Our front and our linebackers are playing very well," Harris said. "In the back end, we're pretty glued in as far as who we're playing with. We know where every guy's going to be. Once we establish a third corner, we're going to be dominating."

Last year, an excessive number of blown assignments plus faulty technique in coordinator Bob Sanders' match-coverage scheme led to 53 passes of 20 yards or more, up from 36 in '05.

Manuel was responsible for some of the damage but he wasn't alone. Sanders, his coaches and many players shared blame as well. Assignment errors haven't been as glaring in this training camp as they were last summer, but no one has been tested yet, either.

"A lot of the big problems last year were communication," Barnett said. "People starting new schemes. Now we got a year of that under our belt and kind of got those growing pains out of the way."

The unit is healthy, and most of the roles have been determined. Cullen Jenkins has been the starting right end since Week 13 last season. Kabeer Gbaja-Biamila now is a designated rusher.

Brady Poppinga is another year removed from reconstructive knee surgery and locked in at strong-side linebacker. The nickel job should be Jarrett Bush's. A cadre of veterans will platoon the middle of the unchanged 4-3 front.

"Really, in the end, it comes down to, and it's probably pretty cliché, but we're starting to really trust one another and we're starting to care about one another," end Aaron Kampman said. "That, to me, is something that you can't manufacture. It's not a false confidence."

The 53-year-old Sanders, a first-time coordinator at any level in '06, probably is more comfortable with his job description. The name of Jim Bates, one of his mentors, is almost never heard anymore.

"I really think he's at ease with the whole role," Harris said. "Guys are taking to him. He's doing a good job."

Sanders will press with his cornerbacks, try to play the run with seven in the box and be happy if the unit once again can generate 46 sacks, which ranked fourth in the NFL. He blitzed on merely 24.9% of passes last season but might open up to accommodate A.J. Hawk, Barnett and Bigby, all of whom were on fire against Seattle on Aug. 18.

"I don't get into projections, but I do know our whole mentality is to disrupt and constrict what an offense wants to do," said Kampman. "We disrupt timing and that gives us more time. You might say that's every defense's philosophy but some guys would rather sit in a two-deep shell and keep things in front of them."

Kampman didn't say it, but his implication was clear. This defense intends to get after people, take things away and intimidate.

"I know," Pickett replied, when told fielding the No. 1 defense is an enormous objective. "Real big. So is winning the Super Bowl."

[Scott Campbell]

I have no questions in my mind about any positions on D - other than safety. If they get good safety play this year, the Packers D will be miserable to game plan against.

[Partial]

Sadlly I feel like the defense is getting overrated. They're good, but they're not that good. I still don't see them forcing a lot of turnovers. Hopefully they are the best of the best of the best, but I think around 7th or 8th best in the league is more likely.

[VegasPackFan]

It would be great to see a top ten defense even.

I hate seeing sloppy tackling and coverage. It is one of the most awful things to watch your team do.

I honestly believed that AJ would bring a certain level of pride, especially in tackling, to the Pack that they have not had in a long time.

[MJZiggy]

Sadlly I feel like the defense is getting overrated. They're good, but they're not that good. I still don't see them forcing a lot of turnovers. Hopefully they are the best of the best of the best, but I think around 7th or 8th best in the league is more likely.

I like a little swagger...

[Partial]

Sadlly I feel like the defense is getting overrated. They're good, but they're not that good. I still don't see them forcing a lot of turnovers. Hopefully they are the best of the best of the best, but I think around 7th or 8th best in the league is more likely.

I like a little swagger...

As do I; I just hope they're in the film and study rooms learning how to shut down Brian Westbrook making sure they can back up these claims. If they want to be the best, than they had better show up to play against the Eagles. They need to step up their intensity in practice and work on consistency.

[vince]

This unit definitely has the talent to succeed - as it did all of last year as well - with poor results until late in the season.

The communication breakdowns should be fixed by now, but the area that I believe still remains a question - and will be the key to their ability to achieve elite status this year - is their ability, not to slow down, but to shut down the run up the middle.

Pickett is definitely a stout run stopper, but any of Williams, Jolly and Cole can be neutralized by a decent trap block. They may be able to help slow down an opponent's running game - with the emphasis on the word "help" - but they are not key cogs in the Packer's ability to SHUT DOWN the opponent's running game.

Just last week, although the Jag's first-unit offense didn't score, Jones-Drew and Fred Taylor were able to knock off a number of big-chunk runs right down the middle of our D.

In the absence of the emergence of Harrell as a second stout run-stopper, this could continue to be a soft spot in the D. While any/all of Williams/Jolly/Cole are certainly serviceable football players, particularly when it comes to lateral pursuit, occassionally pressuring the QB from the inside, and occupying blockers during blitzes and stunts, they are all average run stuffers at best - as starting DT's in the NFL go.

A big, punishing line, combined with a big, punishing back has the opportunity to pound the ball and knock off some big chunks of yards right up the gut - especially with Barnett as our middle linebacker. I'm not down on Barnett's entire game by any stretch, but he's undersized for a MLB and not a punishing tackler in the middle. A good trap on the line and a pounding runner that can bounce off Barnett and reach the defensive backfield could not only be an effective ground gaining strategy in itself, but could also pull the outside backers in and the safeties up just enough to start to make outside running game a little more effective, and the pass defense a little more susceptible to big plays on the outside.

This is where I have been expecting Harrell to give the team some value. He's been a failure in one-on-one pass rushing drills all camp, which is obviously disappointing, but that's not his strength at this stage of his career. His size, brute strength and - hopefully - his ability to push back a trap block and fill the hole to stuff the run would make the entire defensive unit much better.

A "bend but don't break" defense can help a team not lose games, but a defense that can't be run against - particularly up the middle - can be one that creates turnovers, wins field position battles, sets up great opportunities for the offense, and scores points itself. That's what it will take for this defense to be elite.

[RashanGary]

In the absence of the emergence of Harrell as a second stout run-stopper, this could continue to be a soft spot in the D. While any/all of Williams/Jolly/Cole are certainly serviceable football players, particularly when it comes to lateral pursuit, occassionally pressuring the QB from the inside, and occupying blockers during blitzes and stunts, they are all average run stuffers at best - as starting DT's in the NFL go.



The Packers have been very aggressive in stunts and slants in the preseason. Sometimes they guess run like on 3rd or 4th and one and they stop it effectively. Sometimes they guess pass like on 1st and 10 or 2nd and 8 and they run a pass stopping Dline assignment. They commit to whatever it is and go full steam at whatever the guess is. That said, a team my call the opposite play two times and we may get gashed for a couple yards but eventually we will call run on a 1st and 10 and they will run and we'll stop them. Then we'll call a pass directed line assignment and they'll pass and they will have too much pressure to be effective. Then it will be 3rd down, obvious passing and we'll blitz and it will be 4th and punt. Sometimes you just choose the wrong play and if you are aggressive, your plays aren't always designed to stop everything but rather shut down one thing. The offense isn't going to guess right every time so eventually we will force them off the field if not right away.

The important thing is not to just guess run in 1st and 10 and then get beat deep. As long as they are guessing in ways that the wroste case is a 10 yard run like in preseason, we'll be fine.

The closer you get to the endzone, the more obvious calls become and the more likely a defense is to be put in a position to succeed. I don't think it's our inablity to stop the run as much is it is our aggressiveness to call plays setting up a couple gashed runs.

[vince]

This is not a slanting defense, and line stunts, which can open up the middle of the defense, are only called in late-down, long-yardage situations. That is the only time when a "guess" relative to the opponent's tendencies will compromise the integrity of the middle of the defense by design. Even blitzes on early downs tend to come from the middle, which reinforces the defense's strength there.

Obviously, on 3rd and 1, you're going to fill the box, but that's not the same as "guessing" pass on first and 10, running a line stunt and creating holes for big runs up the middle. That doesn't happen.

In all of those situations, there is still clear responsiblity in the design of this defense - on both DT's to fill their gap. If they don't or can't do that, the defense will be susceptible.

[run pMc]

The swagger is nice, but they haven't done anything yet.
McNabb and Westbrook will be a very good test...Philly has had our number the last few years, and reports are that McNabb looks very sharp this preseason.
I'll wait until the games matter before I pull a Denny Green and crown 'em.

I do agree with Vince -- there were some games last year where they weren't very good against the run; they still need to prove they can do that.

Is anyone else concerned about the "No. 1 defense having been intact for just five series in four games" comment? Doesn't seem like much game-time to get in synch, and communication is key.

[Harlan Huckleby]

A big, punishing line, combined with a big, punishing back has the opportunity to pound the ball and knock off some big chunks of yards right up the gut - especially with Barnett as our middle linebacker.

put down the crack pipe, Vince. What would your namesake say about this behavior?

the packers have swell defensive ends against the run. Pickett is stout. Jolly is going to play the run very strong. The rumors that Barnett can't tackle are baloney. The Packers have as ass-kicking front seven. And all seven make tackles in the middle of the field.

This is not a speed-only defense, as your theory on trap-blocking, etc imply. They are big honkers too.

[Merlin]

I agree that our defense is getting to many kudos. I think they have the potential to be very good but to me the kiss of death is always being over confident. I don't like it when the media feeds into that because then the expectations are set way to high and teams usually never meet those. That isn't to say they won't but we need to keep our perspective on this. We are weak at safety and Al Harris hasn't had a great pre-season. I do like our depth at CB and I think Harris will be just fine. I think we will cause more turnovers this season for a couple of reasons: 1) No one throws at Harris but given Woodson's mid season emergence last year they have to and I think this will finally be the year Harris goes to the pro-bowl. 2) Our linebackers are playing very well and hitting hard. If they can do that in the regular season, I expect more fumbles and INT's from this group. 3) Jenkins, Kampman and KGB seem to have their groove on and that should mean more sacks which normally means more turnovers.

[vince]

A big, punishing line, combined with a big, punishing back has the opportunity to pound the ball and knock off some big chunks of yards right up the gut - especially with Barnett as our middle linebacker.

put down the crack pipe, Vince. What would your namesake say about this behavior?

the packers have swell defensive ends against the run. Pickett is stout. Jolly is going to play the run very strong. The rumors that Barnett can't tackle are baloney. The Packers have as ass-kicking front seven. And all seven make tackles in the middle of the field.

This is not a speed-only defense, as your theory on trap-blocking, etc imply. They are big honkers too.
I agree that this is a strong defense and don't mean to imply that I expect them to be weak up the middle, on the ends or anywhere else. Nor did I say Barnett can't tackle. I said he's not a punishing tackler. He has bounced off of runners before...

I expect this defense to be strong. What I'm referrring to is what will be needed for them to be good to the highest degree... If this defense is going to be DOMINANT, I believe they are going to need to absolutely deny the run up the middle.

Can whichever one of our "big honkers" (sans Pickett - I think he can) stuff a double team of "big honkers" on the other side of the ball? It's a question that I don't think is answered yet.

There is little question (in my mind) that this defense will be very good. If Jolly/Cole/Williams/Harrell can be as stout against the run as I expect Pickett to be, they could very well be elite.

That's all I'm sayin'

[HarveyWallbangers]

Just last week, although the Jag's first-unit offense didn't score, Jones-Drew and Fred Taylor were able to knock off a number of big-chunk runs right down the middle of our D.

Vince, I like your posts and I like this one, but I didn't remember the Jags getting big runs up the middle. Looking at the boxscore, Jones-Drew and Taylor had 5 runs up the middle that netted 18 yards (3.6 yards/carry)--with a long run of 6 yards and no other runs of longer than 4 yards. And those are two really good RBs. I remember them both getting outside on a couple of runs. Taylor to the rightside and Jones-Drew to the leftside.

[MadtownPacker]

AUDIO (http://www.moviesounds.com/ampie/defcon2.mp3)

http://www.americanpiemovies.4t.com/images/chris_owen_002.jpg

[LL2]

It would be great to see a top ten defense even.

I hate seeing sloppy tackling and coverage. It is one of the most awful things to watch your team do.

I honestly believed that AJ would bring a certain level of pride, especially in tackling, to the Pack that they have not had in a long time.

I would be happy with a top ten defense as well. Hopefully around top 5.

[Partial]

AUDIO (http://www.moviesounds.com/ampie/defcon2.mp3)

Classic clip from a hilarious flick.

[mmmdk]

Week 1 is a big test versus McNabb & the Eagles; we can do our post game monday morning quaterbacking on the 10th of september.

Personally, I can't wait for the week 2 game at NY Giants...if Packers D really is that good then I'll enjoy watching Eli Manning crumble before my eyes - can't stand Eli 'cos he's such a whiner.

[LL2]

Hey the Euro rat is back! Has anyone seen Tarlam?

[vince]

Just last week, although the Jag's first-unit offense didn't score, Jones-Drew and Fred Taylor were able to knock off a number of big-chunk runs right down the middle of our D.

Vince, I like your posts and I like this one, but I didn't remember the Jags getting big runs up the middle. Looking at the boxscore, Jones-Drew and Taylor had 5 runs up the middle that netted 18 yards (3.6 yards/carry)--with a long run of 6 yards and no other runs of longer than 4 yards. And those are two really good RBs. I remember them both getting outside on a couple of runs. Taylor to the rightside and Jones-Drew to the leftside.Perhaps they were classified as "outside" but there were a couple early in the game that were - at their widest, off tackle... And perhaps I should have said, "too big" rather than "big", as a 5 yard gain probably isn't considered by most to be "big."

After going through the game stats, here are the ones I was remembering, with the full acknowledgement that one of those was characterized as "left end"... Obviously, this was just the first half, and each of those backs had limited carries...

2-1-GB 42 (6:20) M.Jones-Drew up the middle to GB 38 for 4 yards (C.Cole, N.Barnett).
2-10-GB 38 (5:31) M.Jones-Drew right guard to GB 32 for 6 yards (A.Bigby).
1-10-JAX 43 (2:31) F.Taylor right tackle to GB 46 for 11 yards (C.Woodson; N.Collins).
1-10-JAX 19 (5:15) M.Jones-Drew left end to JAX 26 for 7 yards (J.Jolly).
2-3-JAX 26 (4:40) M.Jones-Drew left guard to JAX 30 for 4 yards (R.Pickett, S.Havner).

Anyway, the point remains. I think the Packers can be an elite D - if they can stop the run between the tackles... In most games, they may be able to do just that...

[Partial]

Yep, I agree Vince. The first step to being great will be being able to both stop the run with the front 7 and generate pressure with the front 4. If they can do those, they'll be well on their way.

Remember, the Vikings have mastered half of that equation and they are an overall adequate at best defense.

[RashanGary]

I watched the game 4 times. I remember the big runs up the front and it seemed the offense was guessing pass on those plays. We'll see how it goes, I see the point your making, I just think it was because they guessed wrong not becuase they are not capable.

[mmmdk]

Hey the Euro rat is back! Has anyone seen Tarlam?

Thanx LL2 - being the greatest Packer fan that ever lived is a tough job. :mrgreen: Emotions, man, big emotions.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Perhaps they were classified as "outside" but there were a couple early in the game that were - at their widest, off tackle...

I didn't see the early part of the game. When I watched, I remembered two runs outside, but nothing up the middle. I'm trusting that you are correct on these.