Harrell not inspiring much confidence

[Packers4Glory]

I hate to say it so soon, but I'm starting to smell it....He is already starting to reek of being a bust. I know he's coming back from an injury but the only positive that I've really heard about him is "he's very coachable". terrrrrrrrrific! He certainly has distinguished himself or even flashed any real ability that I've heard of yet. They practically handed him a starting role and he's slid to the back end of the rotation.

I may be jumping too quickly, but this situation smells of J Reynolds all over again.

[Partial]

Nah.

A Tennesee scout from todays game said he'll be a good player by mid-season. Here's hoping.

[Packers4Glory]

Nah.

A Tennesee scout from todays game said he'll be a good player by mid-season. Here's hoping.

I hope so. Good teams are tough on the O-line and D-line. The better our D-line the better our D. I hope its just a product of coming off an injury as opposed to the Packers overvaluing the guy.

[HarveyWallbangers]

I doubt he'll be Reynolds like bust. Reynolds was a small, speed rusher whose size limited him--and his speed wasn't all that phenomenal. His attributes didn't translate well to the pro game. Harrell will have to work hard (and I've heard he's a good kid, team leader, and hard worker), but he has the physical attributes to play in the NFL. I only watched him on a handful of plays tonight. If he played the other plays like he played the ones that I watched, he'll be alright. He at least be a good run plugger. I doubt the kid is at full strength yet. We'll revisit this in 3 years, and then we'll be able to judge him.

[gbpackfan]

Wow, I am kind of shocked that you started this post after tonights game. He wasn't Kevin Williams out there but he played his best game of the preseason. I can see the improvement. You have to remember, and I know it's hard because he is a 1st round pick, that this young man hadn't played in about a year. His conditioning is not where it will be and his strength is not where it will be. Harrell has the tools and the heart to be a real stud in this league. Give him a chance, he'll prove it. I am actually encouraged about Harrell after tonight's game. I plan on watching it again in an hour or so and I'll watch him on every play. Let me get back to you then and I'll give a final report.

[Packers4Glory]

cool. I didn't get to see the game, but I listened to a little bit on the radio and one of the plays they specifically said he got plowed and gave up some good yards. SO just hearing that and what I've read made me start to wonder.

Again I haven't made up my mind at all as I have hardly seen the guy. I'm just asking the question based on the info or lack of info coming out of camp.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Kind of interesting to read what an opposing scout says.


Thompson sees plenty of positives
By BOB McGINN

Nashville, Tenn. - The injury toll was more than manageable, a handful of rookies and young players showed development and there was little obvious slippage on the part of veterans.

If a month of training camp and an exhibition schedule can be labeled as promising, Packers general manager Ted Thompson is convinced that's what transpired this summer in Green Bay.

"I think we're going to be pretty good," Thompson said Thursday night shortly before the Packers lost to the Tennessee Titans, 30-14, in their exhibition finale at LP Field. "We need to win (in 2007). That's fair."

The Packers will open their 89th regular season in nine days against Philadelphia at Lambeau Field.

"We're going to be solid in both the offensive and defensive lines," Thompson said. "I think that is absolutely key to being able to play.

"I think we're going to have a good defense, and I think our offense will be good when it's all said and done. We still have some unknowns because of injury and other things."

Asked if he considered the Packers to be a playoff contender, Thompson replied, "I certainly hope to be."

Coach Mike McCarthy seemed fairly buoyant as well about the road ahead.

"I feel very good," McCarthy said. "I'm very confident with the ability of our offense to play whatever way we need to play and score points."

Green Bay, which for the sixth straight summer finished against the Titans, is 2-4 in those games. The Packers finished exhibition play at 2-2. Tennessee ended 3-1.

Brett Favre quarterbacked two series and 13 plays and directed a 69-yard touchdown from a surprisingly efficient no-huddle configuration before taking a seat. The No. 1 offensive line played another series in front of Aaron Rodgers and exited after the first quarter.

On defense, the Packers didn't even dress three starters. By the second series, they had just four starters in the lineup.

In contrast, coach Jeff Fisher played his starters through the first series of the second half. The second quarter was like matching men against boys, and as expected the Packers' shock troops took their lumps.

"It's a total dropoff in the NFL from the first unit compared to the seconds," said Blake Beddingfield, the Titans' scouting coordinator. "Green Bay has an identity. It's No. 4. We're trying to build our identity."

The Packers moved the ball with their starters even though Donald Driver and top running backs Brandon Jackson and Vernand Morency didn't play because of injury.

"I thought they looked sharp," Beddingfield said. "Their offensive line did a pretty good job, although there were (two) hits on Favre, which you don't want.

"I like their receiving group. If Bubba Franks continues to do what he did tonight (two receptions, 29 yards). . . . But they must establish a running back, one they can rely on. If they can do that, their offense will go."

James Jones, the third-round pick from San Jose State, caught five passes for 37 yards, enabling him to finish with a team-high 21 grabs for 233 yards (11.1-yard average) and two touchdowns.

"Green Bay did an excellent job personnel-wise getting a player that fits their system," Beddingfield said. "He's doing the short stuff, the curls and digs, and looks good doing it."

Another rookie, running back DeShawn Wynn, replaced injured Noah Herron (knee) after two series. Wynn's exhibition debut came with the Packers' backup line getting overwhelmed time and again by the Titans' starting defensive front.

"I think he looked just average," Beddingfield said. "He dropped the ball out of the backfield. He's a backup guy you'll need to develop. He has ability. He's a heavy runner, and he can catch the ball."

Defensive coordinator Bob Sanders insisted that his defense would be ready despite being on the field for just five possessions. The Packers expect to be outstanding, just as they were in the final month of '06.

"Their defensive line is a big, heavy group," Beddingfield said. "(Justin) Harrell should contribute inside by maybe the middle of the season. They should be able to stop the run, and they've got two physical corners."

The lone new starter, Atari Bigby, made his second start at Marquand Manuel's old strong-safety position and played until the 4-minute mark of the second quarter.

On the first play from scrimmage, Bigby delivered a punishing shot to wide receiver Brandon Jones as he ran a slant on Jarrett Bush. Later in the first quarter, Jones beat Patrick Dendy across the middle on a short crossing pattern before Bigby shot up from the middle of the field and made a sure, hard tackle.

"Nick Collins will play center field," Beddingfield said. "Bigby will be that eight-in-a-box kind of guy. He will play the run and thump guys when they come across the middle. If he can do that without showing a liability in coverage, he'll be a nice little player."

A major issue to be determined in the next 48 hours is selecting a kicker. Rookie Mason Crosby was given the first kickoff and the first and only field-goal attempt, possibly a sign that he entered the night ahead of incumbent Dave Rayner.

From 52 yards, Crosby crushed a kick that might have been good up to 65 yards. Instead, it missed to the left.

"He's got a leg," Beddingfield said. "Now can he harness it? Can he make the 40 and in, the 45 and in, that you've absolutely got to make? With him, at some point they'll be able to launch from 54, 55."
New areas of concern were the lousy punting of Jon Ryan and the inability of the No. 2 defense to be competitive against running backs LenDale White and Chris Brown. Time after time defensive end Jason Hunter and Harrell had problems at the point of attack, and middle linebacker Desmond Bishop kept missing tackles or overrunning plays.

Bishop gave up a 6-yard touchdown pass to Brandon Jones in the second quarter. Then Vince Young scrambled for an 8-yard touchdown.

[gbpackfan]

The scouts comments are encouraging. Man I hope we get that running game going soon.

[RashanGary]

FB, TE and SS have all stepped up and looked liek they may have solutions to the problems heading into the off season. RB and the running game is the last question mark. With the way we've ran our scheme during the preseason with the no cut preseason courtesy; it's still up in the air. The first 4 games of the season are going to really tell us where the running game is. I think they'll be OK early but it's a part of our team that will get better and better as the year goes on and the Oline becomes more in sync.

[Packers4Glory]

FB, TE and SS have all stepped up and looked liek they may have solutions to the problems heading into the off season. RB and the running game is the last question mark. With the way we've ran our scheme during the preseason with the no cut preseason courtesy; it's still up in the air. The first 4 games of the season are going to really tell us where the running game is. I think they'll be OK early but it's a part of our team that will get better and better as the year goes on and the Oline becomes more in sync.

well at least the running game has no where to go but UP

[Freak Out]

It is waaaaaayyyy to soon to call JH a bust. If he does not improve in play and strength throughout the season and then gets his ass handed to him next year then yes...call him a bust.

[Lurker64]

I can't think of a single great defensive tackle who was great in his first season, let alone in his first preseason. He's clearly not awful like Jamal Reynolds was, as he has been making plays (the play he scored the TD on, where he pushed the OL back 5 yards, was against first teamers). He just needs to work on consistency and conditioning, the same thing a lot of college athletes need to do in order to transition to the pro game.

[The Leaper]

My concern is Jon Ryan, not Justin Harrell. Ryan is going to kill us with his inability to get hangtime and outkicking the coverage.

[Packnut]

My concern is Jon Ryan, not Justin Harrell. Ryan is going to kill us with his inability to get hangtime and outkicking the coverage.

Yep. Way to inconsistent. He's gonna hurt us AGAIN this season.

[Freak Out]

My concern is Jon Ryan, not Justin Harrell. Ryan is going to kill us with his inability to get hangtime and outkicking the coverage.

If he is going to consistently kick line drives then at least coach him to kick them out of bounds for fucks sake. If we give up big punt returns every game were screwed.

[Fritz]

I take it he sucked in this last exhibition, because from all accounts he's kicked well for most of camp.

[Partial]

My concern is Jon Ryan, not Justin Harrell. Ryan is going to kill us with his inability to get hangtime and outkicking the coverage.

Yep. Way to inconsistent. He's gonna hurt us AGAIN this season.

2 bad kicks out of an otherwise stellar off-season and he is inconsistent?

[The Leaper]

2 bad kicks out of an otherwise stellar off-season and he is inconsistent?

He kicked a few other line drives as well. Go back and look at his punts...about 75% of the time they reach the return man with no defenders within 10 yards of him, either from a lack of hang time or because he is kicking it 60+ yards.

Either way, it makes it far easier for the defense to get a big return.

[Packnut]

2 bad kicks out of an otherwise stellar off-season and he is inconsistent?

He kicked a few other line drives as well. Go back and look at his punts...about 75% of the time they reach the return man with no defenders within 10 yards of him.

Glad to see SOMEONE is paying attention.

[Partial]

2 bad kicks out of an otherwise stellar off-season and he is inconsistent?

He kicked a few other line drives as well. Go back and look at his punts...about 75% of the time they reach the return man with no defenders within 10 yards of him.

Glad to see SOMEONE is paying attention.

I haven't seen very many pre-season games but I would imagine you haven't either being in Illi. His net yardage is quite good and from all accounts he has been a stellar punter. Jon Ryan is going to be fine. I see no reason to be concerned. It's not like he is the best punter in the league but he is far from the worst.

[rbaloha1]

Chill on Justin Harrell.

The dude is working his way into football shape. Fortunately we are not depending upon him.

Lets wait until the regular season. Anyway, JH will most likely be on the inactive list early on.

[Deputy Nutz]

Harrell has been average. He hasn't been terrible and he has played in every pre-season game and has not re-injured himself through training camp.

I think he has gotten better in every game, although it hasn't been leaps and bounds.

[Packnut]

2 bad kicks out of an otherwise stellar off-season and he is inconsistent?

He kicked a few other line drives as well. Go back and look at his punts...about 75% of the time they reach the return man with no defenders within 10 yards of him.

Glad to see SOMEONE is paying attention.

I haven't seen very many pre-season games but I would imagine you haven't either being in Illi. His net yardage is quite good and from all accounts he has been a stellar punter. Jon Ryan is going to be fine. I see no reason to be concerned. It's not like he is the best punter in the league but he is far from the worst.

When you have directv and the NFL network, you see EVERYTHING my friend. It's all goes back to the same philosophy that now infects our team. Take a LB and make him a FB. Take a 3 step punter and make him a 2 step punter.

Sorry, but I'd rather have a guy that played 4 freaking years in college as a FB. I'd rather have a punter who's does'nt have to make MAJOR technical changes cause he figured out how to punt the CORRECT way in college.

For every 1 diamond in the rough that you do find, you'll waste time on 10 other guys trying to change them. If it was that easy EVERYONE would be doing it.

[Partial]

Right because that punter from Ohio State that we drafted worked out so well...

I think Ryan is fine. I think refining the approach happens far much more than you'd believe.

Funny how Mr. Hall got brought up into this discussion when he hasn't done anything to question his ability as a solid starter this off-season.

[wist43]

No need to panick on Harrell... if he's still playing like this at the beginning of next year, then I'll worry.

That said, he has been disappointing. There are reasons of course, but he's been getting handled pretty easily... you expect more from a 1st round pick.

[Packnut]

Right because that punter from Ohio State that we drafted worked out so well...

I think Ryan is fine. I think refining the approach happens far much more than you'd believe.

Funny how Mr. Hall got brought up into this discussion when he hasn't done anything to question his ability as a solid starter this off-season.

Refine the drop, may-be the angle but not the amount of freakin steps!!!!!

[woodbuck27]

http://www.nfl.com/players/profile?id=00-0025403

He had his best outing Vs the Titans.

4 tackles - 3 solo and 1 assisted T. He may be coming of age.

He's certainly going to get his chances to show us what he has or not as the season progress's.. :)

[oregonpackfan]

I remain very skeptical about Harrell. He reminds me of a Jamaal Reynolds type of # 1 draft pick.

I predict Harrell will sit on the bench this year and all of 2008. By the fall of 2009, he will not make the final cut and will be out of the NFL. :(

[Lurker64]

I remain very skeptical about Harrell. He reminds me of a Jamaal Reynolds type of # 1 draft pick.

I predict Harrell will sit on the bench this year and all of 2008. By the fall of 2009, he will not make the final cut and will be out of the NFL. :(

Jamal Reynolds who was too small and didn't have enough speed to be a speed rusher in this league reminds you of Harrell who has prototypical size and athleticism to play his position at a high level someday?

Harrell's problem is that his conditioning and football strength aren't what they should be, since he's been out of the game for a year but both have been steadily improving as we watched during the preseason. Strength and conditioning are things you can, and are expected to improve. Reynold's problem was that he was small and slow, those aren't things you can improve.

[TennesseePackerBacker]

I remain very skeptical about Harrell. He reminds me of a Jamaal Reynolds type of # 1 draft pick.

I predict Harrell will sit on the bench this year and all of 2008. By the fall of 2009, he will not make the final cut and will be out of the NFL. :(


wow, you are kidding me right? I'm glad you are not making GM-type decisions, or else we'd be in serious trouble. Hey, you know what? Corey Williams took 3 years to develop, why didn't we write him off when he was looking rough during his first season? Not to mention Williams didn't even have the collegiate career that Harrell did, not close.

[Harlan Huckleby]

I was listening to Pete Dougherty on the radio yesterday. I was encouraged when he said that Harrell was physically impressive, meaning he has great combo of size and athleticism. Said he looks like a first round pick. As opposed to Jamal Reynolds, who looked like a camp body.

(Of course there was that awesome man-mountain, Donnell Washington.)

[retailguy]

I was listening to Pete Dougherty on the radio yesterday. I was encouraged when he said that Harrell was physically impressive, meaning he has great combo of size and athleticism. Said he looks like a first round pick. As opposed to Jamal Reynolds, who looked like a camp body.

(Of course there was that awesome man-mountain, Donnell Washington.)

C'mon! Bringing up Washington isn't fair. The guy was a total underachiever his whole college career.

Harrell, played WELL, WHEN he played. He was hurt a lot. If the guy stays healthy I think he'll be OK. It's a total bummer he showed up so out of shape, but not really surprising since he was hurt so early last year. Not many people have the motivation to rehab and stay in shape.

We'll see what he does... The only gripe I have is that so many people in here were so high on the kool-aid they were preaching what a big help he'd be this season. This guy, due to the significance and timing of his injury is a TOTAL project.

He'll help - IN 2008.

[Lurker64]

He'll help - IN 2008.

With any luck, in January and February ;)

[retailguy]

He'll help - IN 2008.

With any luck, in January and February ;)

Good ONE. :P

[RashanGary]

I thought he would be better than he has been, RG. I was definitly wrong on how much he would contribute.


Damn, I hate saying I was wrong :)

[retailguy]

I thought he would be better than he has been, RG. I was definitly wrong on how much he would contribute.


Damn, I hate saying I was wrong :)

I understand. I hoped he would too, but when you try to look at it objectively (that's hard for me too, you know :wink: ), it just wasn't likely.

I have never tore a biceps (thank God), but I'd have to think that would extremely limit your weightlifting work. that doesn't come back over night. Without adequate strength, he's going to get stood up, pushed back, and knocked aside... Plus 8+ months without significant foot work? Sheesh...

Nah, there's a lot of work to do. Maybe he can get it by the end of the season. It'll give us a good indicator at how committed he is to becoming a force. He definitely has the talent. Let's see what he does with it.

[Joemailman]

Right because that punter from Ohio State that we drafted worked out so well...

I think Ryan is fine. I think refining the approach happens far much more than you'd believe.

Funny how Mr. Hall got brought up into this discussion when he hasn't done anything to question his ability as a solid starter this off-season.

Refine the drop, may-be the angle but not the amount of freakin steps!!!!!

Actually, it is quite common for college punters to have to learn to cut a step when entering the NFL. That's why a lot of punters don't make it with their first team. They need time to refine their technique. That is why most punters aren't drafted (but that's another story).

[Joemailman]

As for Harrell, I read recently that of the DT's drafted in the 1st round in recent years, only about a third became starters their rookie year. Most, however, became starters their 2nd year. I imagine it has to do with technique. These guys are probably used to just overpowering the guards they face in college. It doesn't work that way in the NFL.

[Lurker64]

I'm wondering if "expecting your first round guys to make an impact" has increased in the ESPN era. I mean, back when we drafted guys like Wayne Simmons, Terrell Buckley, Aaron Taylor, and Craig Newsome, how much of a splash did we expect them to make in their first year?

[oregonpackfan]

I remain very skeptical about Harrell. He reminds me of a Jamaal Reynolds type of # 1 draft pick.

I predict Harrell will sit on the bench this year and all of 2008. By the fall of 2009, he will not make the final cut and will be out of the NFL. :(


wow, you are kidding me right? I'm glad you are not making GM-type decisions, or else we'd be in serious trouble. Hey, you know what? Corey Williams took 3 years to develop, why didn't we write him off when he was looking rough during his first season? Not to mention Williams didn't even have the collegiate career that Harrell did, not close.

I guess for both of our positions that only time will tell if Harrell will make it in the NFL or was even worth a 1st round pick.

[Fritz]

I'm wondering if "expecting your first round guys to make an impact" has increased in the ESPN era. I mean, back when we drafted guys like Wayne Simmons, Terrell Buckley, Aaron Taylor, and Craig Newsome, how much of a splash did we expect them to make in their first year?

Good point, though I do remember that Holmgren just assumed from the get-go that Newsome was going to start. I guess he was just NFL ready. But on the whole, I think the pressure for first rounders to start and star immediately is quite unrealistic these days, thanks to the 24/7 ESPN coverage.

[Partial]

I remain very skeptical about Harrell. He reminds me of a Jamaal Reynolds type of # 1 draft pick.

I predict Harrell will sit on the bench this year and all of 2008. By the fall of 2009, he will not make the final cut and will be out of the NFL. :(


wow, you are kidding me right? I'm glad you are not making GM-type decisions, or else we'd be in serious trouble. Hey, you know what? Corey Williams took 3 years to develop, why didn't we write him off when he was looking rough during his first season? Not to mention Williams didn't even have the collegiate career that Harrell did, not close.

That was a very backhanded response.

Corey Williams took 3 years, yes. He also wasn't a first round pick.

He didn't have the collegiant career meaning it would take him longer to develop, yes.

I don't get what you're trying to imply. First rounders are supposed to be sure things and step in and play sooner than 6th round developmental players like CWill.

That said, if Harrell doesn't become the player Williams is and then some he will be a collossal dissapointment. I have seen him play and have faith in him, but my faith is not unwavering and he needs to show he can dominate in the pros like Henderson and Haynesworth have.

[Merlin]

You have more patience then I Partial. Harrell plugs a hole, that's about it. Someone posted that this was his best game but it probably was the game he played the most in. Tenn isn't exactly a powerhouse and they ate up our second team, Harrell included. If the guy is going to be a project then he shouldn't have been taken in the 1st round. He looks like a project to me!

[Bretsky]

You have more patience then I Partial. Harrell plugs a hole, that's about it. Someone posted that this was his best game but it probably was the game he played the most in. Tenn isn't exactly a powerhouse and they ate up our second team, Harrell included. If the guy is going to be a project then he shouldn't have been taken in the 1st round. He looks like a project to me!

To me he just looks like a guy who is not ready to compete at this level; I think TT thought he would be by now based on his draft comment.

It will take some time; I didn't love the pick in the first place but the guy I wanted isn't doing worth a crap yet either.

[Merlin]

Well I wanted Quinn and he is doing just dandy!

Part of it may be that we have such a deep DL that he just doesn't compare to who we have. But mostly, I think he isn't ready either.

[Partial]

You have more patience then I Partial. Harrell plugs a hole, that's about it. Someone posted that this was his best game but it probably was the game he played the most in. Tenn isn't exactly a powerhouse and they ate up our second team, Harrell included. If the guy is going to be a project then he shouldn't have been taken in the 1st round. He looks like a project to me!

To me he just looks like a guy who is not ready to compete at this level; I think TT thought he would be by now based on his draft comment.

It will take some time; I didn't love the pick in the first place but the guy I wanted isn't doing worth a crap yet either.

And the guy none of us wanted that would have been a decent value pick is lighting in up in Cleveland. I guess its relative since he's against 3rd stringers, but he is doing more than Harrell and at least showing something.

I guess this just goes to show that its often luck of the draw. Hopefully by next year we're feeling that we got lucky. Doesn't look too good right now, though.

[Packers4Glory]

did they or did they not slot him in w/ the 1st team when he came into camp? I thought I recalled a story about that and Williams. now where is he? maybe inactive. :?:

[Packers4Glory]

ahh yes


Posted: July 27, 2007

Green Bay - Not only will Green Bay Packers first-round pick Justin Harrell be on the field when training camp opens this afternoon, but he also will be No. 1 on the depth chart at right defensive tackle................

.....The Packers feel very strongly that Harrell will be someone who can contribute right away despite the fact he missed all but three of his games during his senior season at Tennessee. Packers fans reacted negatively to the selection of Harrell on draft day, but the club has high hopes for the 6-4, 310-pound tackle.

Harrell was the last Tennessee player to wear Reggie White's now-retired No. 92. He played 35 games for the Volunteers, starting 25, and finished with 82 tackles, four sacks and two interceptions., earning four varsity letters.

The Packers obviously feel he will be something special because, instead of listing returning starter Corey Williams No. 1 on the depth chart at right tackle, they went with Harrell. It's customary to give the veteran - especially one with as much talent as Williams - the honors, but the Packers seem confident in Harrell's future.


http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=639231



To go from that...to practically last on the depth chart is quite a fall. The very definition of disappointment thus far.

Lets hope he figures it out. soon.