Ryan Grant? WTF TT?

[jramsey495]

By and large i have been happy with how TT has gone about his business. he trades down (not up) in the draft to get more picks and he doesn't go crazy for free agents just to make news (my guess is that he went after some big names this off season but people didn't want to come to green bay). he suffers with us because he has no personality and is horrible in front of a camera.

but i feel like he has this thing about finding people no one has ever heard of so everyone thinks he's the smartest guy in the world (ala ron wolf - which tt ain't). ryan grant is an undrafted free agent from 2005 who doesn't have an nfl carry in two years and had, by most accounts, an inauspicious career at notre dame when the program wasn't doing so well. and we trade a draft pick for him? why the hell don't you take a chance on someone that other people agree has some value, tt? why do you always have to find the most obscure player out there? dang, this is frustrating...

[The Shadow]

By and large i have been happy with how TT has gone about his business. he trades down (not up) in the draft to get more picks and he doesn't go crazy for free agents just to make news (my guess is that he went after some big names this off season but people didn't want to come to green bay). he suffers with us because he has no personality and is horrible in front of a camera.

but i feel like he has this thing about finding people no one has ever heard of so everyone thinks he's the smartest guy in the world (ala ron wolf - which tt ain't). ryan grant is an undrafted free agent from 2005 who doesn't have an nfl carry in two years and had, by most accounts, an inauspicious career at notre dame when the program wasn't doing so well. and we trade a draft pick for him? why the hell don't you take a chance on someone that other people agree has some value, tt? why do you always have to find the most obscure player out there? dang, this is frustrating...

What if the guy happens to be a good player?

[Lurker64]

I'm willing to bet that TT and the Packer's scouting department watch a lot more film than you do, particularly things like preseason games for other teams. They might have even seen the guy work in some "open to the public practices".

Do I know anything about the guy? Not really. Does that mean that he's a bad pickup? Far from it. I don't get paid to be knowledgeable about football.

[Fritz]

Can this trade put to rest the whole "TT loves his draft picks so much he'll NEVER give one up"?

[gbpackfan]

By and large i have been happy with how TT has gone about his business. he trades down (not up) in the draft to get more picks and he doesn't go crazy for free agents just to make news (my guess is that he went after some big names this off season but people didn't want to come to green bay). he suffers with us because he has no personality and is horrible in front of a camera.

but i feel like he has this thing about finding people no one has ever heard of so everyone thinks he's the smartest guy in the world (ala ron wolf - which tt ain't). ryan grant is an undrafted free agent from 2005 who doesn't have an nfl carry in two years and had, by most accounts, an inauspicious career at notre dame when the program wasn't doing so well. and we trade a draft pick for him? why the hell don't you take a chance on someone that other people agree has some value, tt? why do you always have to find the most obscure player out there? dang, this is frustrating...

The Giants believed he had value, he had already been informed that he had made the team before the trade. Just because YOU don't know who he is, doesn't mean GMs and coaches don't.

As for giving up a draft pick, it was most likely a late round pick and in that case, so what! There are a million ways to get an extra 6th or 7th round pick in the draft.

Listen, I have been all over TT as well but you can't come down on the guy for going out getting guys like this. He gave up very little for him so in the end if it doesnt pan out, so what.

Let me ask you this? What good is that late round pick in the 2008 NFL draft going to do for our team this year? How many TDs will it score? How many plays will it make? NONE. Ryan Grant may.

[CaliforniaCheez]

Don't speak too early. What if this guy is the next Don Woods??

[woodbuck27]

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter?game_id=29482&displayPage=tab_gamecenter&season=2007&seasonType=PRE&week=2

In the Giants 13-12 Pre Season win over The Ravens.

Rushing ATT YDS TD LG

R. Grant 7 31 0 18 . . .#39.

FILM HIGHLIGHTS FR. ABOVE LINK.

[RashanGary]

Thanks for the highlight, woodbuck

[RashanGary]

haha, he didn't have a play in that highlight.

[Fritz]

By and large i have been happy with how TT has gone about his business. he trades down (not up) in the draft to get more picks and he doesn't go crazy for free agents just to make news (my guess is that he went after some big names this off season but people didn't want to come to green bay). he suffers with us because he has no personality and is horrible in front of a camera.

but i feel like he has this thing about finding people no one has ever heard of so everyone thinks he's the smartest guy in the world (ala ron wolf - which tt ain't). ryan grant is an undrafted free agent from 2005 who doesn't have an nfl carry in two years and had, by most accounts, an inauspicious career at notre dame when the program wasn't doing so well. and we trade a draft pick for him? why the hell don't you take a chance on someone that other people agree has some value, tt? why do you always have to find the most obscure player out there? dang, this is frustrating...

The Giants believed he had value, he had already been informed that he had made the team before the trade. Just because YOU don't know who he is, doesn't mean GMs and coaches don't.

As for giving up a draft pick, it was most likely a late round pick and in that case, so what! There are a million ways to get an extra 6th or 7th round pick in the draft.

Listen, I have been all over TT as well but you can't come down on the guy for going out getting guys like this. He gave up very little for him so in the end if it doesnt pan out, so what.

Let me ask you this? What good is that late round pick in the 2008 NFL draft going to do for our team this year? How many TDs will it score? How many plays will it make? NONE. Ryan Grant may.

Kudos to you GBPackfan. You've been tough on TT but you're fair in this comment.

[RashanGary]

I think this had everything to do with Mornecy and Herron being hurt. This move reaks of desperation, it wouldn't suprise me if this ends up going on TT's list of mistakes when it's all said and done.

[Lurker64]

I think this had everything to do with Mornecy and Herron being hurt. This move reaks of desperation, it wouldn't suprise me if this ends up going on TT's list of mistakes when it's all said and done.

Really, it depends on what the undisclosed pick is. I don't know if trading a 6th or 7th round pick can really land in the "mistakes" column. Most of those guys don't make teams, and it's easy to get more of them by trading down in the draft (since they're worth so few points.)

[Fritz]

I'm behind. When did Herron get hurt, and how bad is it?

[woodbuck27]

Thanks for the highlight, woodbuck

Nothing there to see though. So let's go here for a look.

R.Grant has a TD in this loss to the Pat's.

but zoooooop. . . it's not on the highlight film. :)

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter?season=2007&week=PRE4&game_id=29501

Rushing Giants in the final Pre Season game, a 27-20 loss to the Pat's:

................ ATT YDS TD LG

A. Bradshaw 6 46 0 20
R. Droughns 5 38 0 33
D. Ward 4 25 0 11
B. Jacobs 8 21 1 6
J. Lorenzen 1 10 0 10
R. Grant 4 4 1 6

4th QTR.

New York Giants at 02:54
3-S.Gostkowski kicks 68 yards from NE 30 to NYG 2. 44-A.Bradshaw to NYG 33 for 31 yards (46-C.Mays).
1-10-NYG 33 (2:46) NYG 2-Wright now at QB. (Shotgun) 2-A.Wright pass short left to 82-B.London to NYG 45 for 12 yards (23-W.Andrews, 31-B.Meriweather).
1-10-NYG 45 (2:15) (No Huddle, Shotgun) 39-R.Grant right end pushed ob at NE 49 for 6 yards (38-D.Wesley).
2-4-NE 49 (2:09) (No Huddle, Shotgun) 2-A.Wright pass short left to 82-B.London to NE 44 for 5 yards (31-B.Meriweather).
Two-Minute Warning
1-10-NE 44 (2:00) (Shotgun) 2-A.Wright pass short left to 87-K.McMahan to NE 14 for 30 yards (24-M.Mitchell).
1-10-NE 14 (1:34) (No Huddle, Shotgun) 2-A.Wright pass incomplete short left to 87-K.McMahan.
2-10-NE 14 (1:29) (Shotgun) 2-A.Wright pass short right to 82-B.London to NE 1 for 13 yards (52-E.Alexander).
1-1-NE 1 (:58) (No Huddle) 39-R.Grant up the middle for 1 yard, TOUCHDOWN. NE-31-B.Meriweather was injured during the play.
Timeout #1 by NE at 00:49.
5-J.Huston extra point is GOOD, Center-51-Z.DeOssie, Holder-18-J.Feagles.

NYG 20 NE 27 Plays: 7 Possession: 2:05

[Bretsky]

Can this trade put to rest the whole "TT loves his draft picks so much he'll NEVER give one up"?


Only if I can keep saying TT would never give up a high draft pick for an established player to win now :wink:

Seriously, though, I have no issues with this deal. Let's see how it pans out before criticizing or giving credit.

[jramsey495]

i'm just frustrated. like i said, i've been generally happy with how tt operates and give him the benefit of the doubt, it just seems like he gets too smart sometimes. i'll be as happy as anybody here if grant turns out to be a stud and rushes for 1,200 yds. it'd be interesting to see a list of all his non-draft acquisitions (not including ufa's from the day after the draft) and how they turned out.

i actually give him a whole bunch of credit for cutting his losses and getting rid of manuel. that was his guy twice, in seattle and gb, and he admitted his mistake.

[woodbuck27]

Can this trade put to rest the whole "TT loves his draft picks so much he'll NEVER give one up"?


Only if I can keep saying TT would never give up a high draft pick for an established player to win now :wink:

Seriously, though, I have no issues with this deal. Let's see how it pans out before criticizing or giving credit.

Ted Thompson was forced to make some move at RB.

At least he realized that. :)

[gbpackfan]

Giants Trade Running Back Ryan Grant to Packers for Undisclosed Draft Pick
Posted Sep 1st 2007 6:04PM by Dan Benton
Filed under: NY Giants, Packers, NFC East, NFC North, New York

The Giants and Packers agreed to a trade today, but it didn't include either of the kickers that were discussed earlier this week. Instead, New York sent second-year running back Ryan Grant to the Packers in exchange for an undisclosed draft pick.

Grant, who missed all of the 2006 season with a hand injury, really opened some eyes in Giants camp this year. He had 18 carries for 90 yards and a touchdown during the preseason, but New York's depth at running back was surprisingly good.

Oddly, the Giants opted not to take Mason Crosby or Dave Rayner in exchange for Grant, most likely because they knew one of the two would be released -- which they were.

Given all the injuries to their running backs, Grant is a solid addition for the Packers. He's a hard worker and was well liked in New York. He'll give Green Bay another option in the backfield and will most likely compete for carries immediately; he's also a solid special teams player.

[woodbuck27]

i'm just frustrated. like i said, i've been generally happy with how tt operates and give him the benefit of the doubt, it just seems like he gets too smart sometimes. i'll be as happy as anybody here if grant turns out to be a stud and rushes for 1,200 yds. it'd be interesting to see a list of all his non-draft acquisitions (not including ufa's from the day after the draft) and how they turned out.

i actually give him a whole bunch of credit for cutting his losses and getting rid of manuel. that was his guy twice, in seattle and gb, and he admitted his mistake.

Manuel is gone and that isn't a bad move.

[Bretsky]

i'm just frustrated. like i said, i've been generally happy with how tt operates and give him the benefit of the doubt, it just seems like he gets too smart sometimes. i'll be as happy as anybody here if grant turns out to be a stud and rushes for 1,200 yds. it'd be interesting to see a list of all his non-draft acquisitions (not including ufa's from the day after the draft) and how they turned out.

i actually give him a whole bunch of credit for cutting his losses and getting rid of manuel. that was his guy twice, in seattle and gb, and he admitted his mistake.



I'm not nearly as high on TT as you are; but I actually like TT admitting the Manuel mistake and TT making a deal

[jramsey495]

i'm just frustrated. like i said, i've been generally happy with how tt operates and give him the benefit of the doubt, it just seems like he gets too smart sometimes. i'll be as happy as anybody here if grant turns out to be a stud and rushes for 1,200 yds. it'd be interesting to see a list of all his non-draft acquisitions (not including ufa's from the day after the draft) and how they turned out.

i actually give him a whole bunch of credit for cutting his losses and getting rid of manuel. that was his guy twice, in seattle and gb, and he admitted his mistake.

Manuel is gone and that isn't a bad move.

yeah, that's what i was trying to say. i like that move.

[woodbuck27]

I'm behind. When did Herron get hurt, and how bad is it?

Herron was injued Vs the Titans last Thursday night.

Difficult to get the details but we'll try. :)

[woodbuck27]

i'm just frustrated. like i said, i've been generally happy with how tt operates and give him the benefit of the doubt, it just seems like he gets too smart sometimes. i'll be as happy as anybody here if grant turns out to be a stud and rushes for 1,200 yds. it'd be interesting to see a list of all his non-draft acquisitions (not including ufa's from the day after the draft) and how they turned out.

i actually give him a whole bunch of credit for cutting his losses and getting rid of manuel. that was his guy twice, in seattle and gb, and he admitted his mistake.

Manuel is gone and that isn't a bad move.

yeah, that's what i was trying to say. i like that move.

It's a tad jumpy around here of late with a ton of not down on TT fr. some of us and other's are anoid over the extent of it.

Keep to YOU Packer fan. Welcome to our Packer forum jramsey495 ! :)

GO PACKERS !!

[gbpackfan]

I'm behind. When did Herron get hurt, and how bad is it?

Herron was injued Vs the Titans last Thursday night.

Difficult to get the details but we'll try. :)

Herron said he was fine after the game. He said he will be ready to go on Sunday. It looked to me like a bruised knee. He had ice on it but he was walking around okay.

[Bretsky]

I'm behind. When did Herron get hurt, and how bad is it?

Herron was injued Vs the Titans last Thursday night.

Difficult to get the details but we'll try. :)

Herron said he was fine after the game. He said he will be ready to go on Sunday. It looked to me like a bruised knee. He had ice on it but he was walking around okay.


Slow as they get as a NFL RB anyways; a bit slower won't really hurt him

[retailguy]

i'm just frustrated. like i said, i've been generally happy with how tt operates and give him the benefit of the doubt, it just seems like he gets too smart sometimes. i'll be as happy as anybody here if grant turns out to be a stud and rushes for 1,200 yds. it'd be interesting to see a list of all his non-draft acquisitions (not including ufa's from the day after the draft) and how they turned out.

i actually give him a whole bunch of credit for cutting his losses and getting rid of manuel. that was his guy twice, in seattle and gb, and he admitted his mistake.

Manuel is gone and that isn't a bad move.

yeah, that's what i was trying to say. i like that move.


Hey, Don't let these guys make you apologize! Say what you want. You didn't say anything bad! Thompson gets paid the big bucks and he has to endure whatever criticism we want to dish out.

[gbpackfan]

I'm behind. When did Herron get hurt, and how bad is it?

Herron was injued Vs the Titans last Thursday night.

Difficult to get the details but we'll try. :)

Herron said he was fine after the game. He said he will be ready to go on Sunday. It looked to me like a bruised knee. He had ice on it but he was walking around okay.


Slow as they get as a NFL RB anyways; a bit slower won't really hurt him

Herron has grown on me. Ha ha. That kind of sounds like a medical condition. :D He is assignment sure and holds onto the football. Yes, he is slow and should NEVER return kicks, but he has made some nice plays as a 3rd down back.

[Zool]

I'm behind. When did Herron get hurt, and how bad is it?

Herron was injued Vs the Titans last Thursday night.

Difficult to get the details but we'll try. :)

Herron said he was fine after the game. He said he will be ready to go on Sunday. It looked to me like a bruised knee. He had ice on it but he was walking around okay.


Slow as they get as a NFL RB anyways; a bit slower won't really hurt him

Herron has grown on me. Ha ha. That kind of sounds like a medical condition. :D He is assignment sure and holds onto the football. Yes, he is slow and should NEVER return kicks, but he has made some nice plays as a 3rd down back.

Who's slower, T-Fish or Cement Shoes Herron? The thing about Fish, if we needed 4 yards, he would get 4.1. The kid had a nose for the invisible yellow line.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Who's slower, T-Fish or Cement Shoes Herron? The thing about Fish, if we needed 4 yards, he would get 4.1. The kid had a nose for the invisible yellow line.

Fisher was a bit bet runner than Herron. They are similar, tho.

[RashanGary]

Hey, HH, we kept your guy, Wynn. I see his potential, but guys like Wynn scare me. He seems to be an MM pet. MM just always talks the guy up like he's the next coming of Frank Gore. Sherman had his Fergy's and Hunt's. I really hope MM doesn't start doing the favoring lazy athlete thing. Well Fergy wasn't lazy but favoring bad player thing then.

[Freak Out]

We needed a RB and TT went and got one. That's progress. :bclap:

:cow: :cow: :cow:

[run pMc]

Well, if the almighty Ron Wolf was still the GM, he'd deal a low pick for a RB if we needed one, right? So maybe this isn't a bad move. Time will tell.
All the same, I'm pretty underwhelmed at the moment.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Hey, HH, we kept your guy, Wynn. I see his potential, but guys like Wynn scare me. He seems to be an MM pet.

I like Wynn & Harrell because, as they say in the hood, they got skills. Maybe they will become good football players, maybe not, I just like what I see and read about their athleticism.

This bias does occasionally lead me down the road to ruin. See Cletedius Hunt.

[RashanGary]

Hey, Don't let these guys make you apologize! Say what you want. You didn't say anything bad! Thompson gets paid the big bucks and he has to endure whatever criticism we want to dish out.

Dude, why is everything about this for you. Man, this is the WAIVER WIRE. We jsut traded a pick for our greatest need, something you've been clamouring for, for the last 6 months. Just enjoy it, this is yoru team adn they did what you hoped they would do.

[RashanGary]

I like Wynn & Harrell because, as they say in the hood, they got skills. Maybe they will become good football players, maybe not, I just like what I see and read about their athleticism.

This bias does occasionally lead me down the road to ruin. See Cletedius Hunt.

I like your ability to not project negative traits on people because they are a little different. Wynn certainly has skills. I really hope he becomes a player he is capable of because it could effect the next 6 or 7 years of Packer football in a very positive way.

[esoxx]

Hey, HH, we kept your guy, Wynn. I see his potential, but guys like Wynn scare me. He seems to be an MM pet.

I like Wynn & Harrell because, as they say in the hood, they got skills. Maybe they will become good football players, maybe not, I just like what I see and read about their athleticism.

This bias does occasionally lead me down the road to ruin. See Cletedius Hunt.

Also see James Lee, Donnell Washington, Chris Johnson, etc, al... They all had certain measurables and "skills". Problem was, at least in the case of Lee and Washington, they were lazy slugs and/or problem people that didn't live up to their physical abilities.

Wynn fits the same pattern. I'm greatly surprised he's still on the roster and don't see him lasting long, much less contributing to this offense. His "making the team", if you can call it that, speaks more to the desperation of the absolute garbage at the position than anything else.

They were razor thin going into this training camp and the injuries have only ramped up the train wreck that is the Packers RB position at the moment.

For all the good things they have accumulated on defense, this will be their undoing. When you become one dimensional in this league, you become predictable and defanged. Especially with an aging QB that can't be expected to carry the offense anymore.

Of course, I could be wrong and this will all end well. That is my hope.

[Scott Campbell]

They were razor thin going into this training camp and the injuries have only ramped up the train wreck that is the Packers RB position at the moment.


I also think this is more about depth than challenging for a prominent role in the running game.

[son of a vic]

i'm just frustrated. like i said, i've been generally happy with how tt operates and give him the benefit of the doubt, it just seems like he gets too smart sometimes. i'll be as happy as anybody here if grant turns out to be a stud and rushes for 1,200 yds. it'd be interesting to see a list of all his non-draft acquisitions (not including ufa's from the day after the draft) and how they turned out.

i actually give him a whole bunch of credit for cutting his losses and getting rid of manuel. that was his guy twice, in seattle and gb, and he admitted his mistake.

Manuel is gone and that isn't a bad move.

yeah, that's what i was trying to say. i like that move.


Hey, Don't let these guys make you apologize! Say what you want. You didn't say anything bad! Thompson gets paid the big bucks and he has to endure whatever criticism we want to dish out.


Where was this philosophy of yours, when the Sherminator was running the team into the ground?

[Harlan Huckleby]

Where was this philosophy of yours, when the Sherminator was running the team into the ground?


Welcome back SOV, looks like you pickin up where you left off.

[son of a vic]

Where was this philosophy of yours, when the Sherminator was running the team into the ground?


Welcome back SOV, looks like you pickin up where you left off.


Just trying to keep the teeter in the totter.

TRANSLATION for Bear fans---------------------fair and balanced.

[RashanGary]

Nice observation, Vic. Didn't take you long to pick up on that.

[retailguy]

Where was this philosophy of yours, when the Sherminator was running the team into the ground?


This was before I figured out that Thompson is the Anti-Christ.

It was time for Sherman to move on, I realized this in hindsight. He took his shot and failed, once due to injury and once due to some bad play calling among other things. I'm not sure his strong suit would be rebuilding.

That said, I miss his honesty. While Thompson is a better player talent evaluator, he's a lying prick. You can't believe anything that comes out of his mouth.

[RashanGary]

That said, I miss his honesty. While Thompson is a better player talent evaluator, he's a lying prick. You can't believe anything that comes out of his mouth.

Holy shit, you are going nuts with this whole thing. I'm beginning to think the assending Packers that are being assembled by the guy who fired your hero is eating you alive.

RG, I'm willing to be friends with you but you are nuts man. Chill out.

I gotta go though. I'll be back to read your nutty rant in a couple hours.


Sheesh, you are crazy RG.

[retailguy]

That said, I miss his honesty. While Thompson is a better player talent evaluator, he's a lying prick. You can't believe anything that comes out of his mouth.

Holy shit, you are going nuts with this whole thing. I'm beginning to think the assending Packers that are being assembled by the guy who fired your hero is eating you alive.

RG, I'm willing to be friends with you but you are nuts man. Chill out.

I gotta go though. I'll be back to read your nutty rant in a couple hours.


Sheesh, you are crazy RG.


Just a question (sorry no rant)...

Who said I wanted to be your friend? :roll:

[Scott Campbell]

While Thompson is a better player talent evaluator, he's a lying prick. You can't believe anything that comes out of his mouth.


When Sherman said the same stuff it was clever subterfuge. But somehow Thompson is a lying prick.

[cheesner]

Where was this philosophy of yours, when the Sherminator was running the team into the ground?


This was before I figured out that Thompson is the Anti-Christ.

It was time for Sherman to move on, I realized this in hindsight. He took his shot and failed, once due to injury and once due to some bad play calling among other things. I'm not sure his strong suit would be rebuilding.

That said, I miss his honesty. While Thompson is a better player talent evaluator, he's a lying prick. You can't believe anything that comes out of his mouth.WTF?

So it is more important to have a GM who reveals all of his cards (doesn't work in poker, don't think it will work in the NFL) than to have a good team?

The anti-TT crowd has gotten even weirder.

[Fritz]

I don't mind MM keeping Wynn, for now. The dude seems more practice squad material, but the position is thin. The trick seems to be knowing when to hold these kind of guys and when to fold 'em. Shermy (God bless him) tended to stick with guys a little too long (Ahmad Carroll, Donnell Washington, Cletidus Hunt). So far, TT seems pretty unsentimental (Manuel is gone! Those TT's-first-year crappy guards are gone!). I'm guessing that if Wynn doesn't bust his schnutts and show some real promise fairly soon, he'll be joining Joey Thomas (I didn't know he was even in anyone's camp til yesterday when I read he got cut) bagging groceries at the local Piggly-Wiggly.

[Lurker64]

That said, I miss his honesty. While Thompson is a better player talent evaluator, he's a lying prick. You can't believe anything that comes out of his mouth.

Ron Wolf also lied all the time, in GM circles he was famous for being one of the biggest liars of all time when it comes to players he's interested in, players he's not interested in, negotiations, or the draft. On a Packer pregame show a while back, the announcers were actually lamenting that Thompson didn't lie as much as Wolf did. If you ask Thompson about trading for a player from another team, Thompson will give you an honest answer of "I don't talk about players on other teams" while Wolf would just out and out lie to you and then do the opposite of whatever he just said at his earliest opportunity.

We don't mind this about Ron Wolf and we remember him fondly because he won. At the same time we look to find fault in TT because he's done some things we don't like, and even though it's the same faults that were worse in a guy that held the job before him, we lambast Thompson. At the same time, even though Sherman was a wretched GM we can at least play the "at least he was a good guy" card. I don't care if Thompson points and laughs at cripples, sends mean letters to orphans, or really hates kittens so long as he wins.

[Fritz]

Intersting, Lurker. I thought everybody just said Ron Wolf was "cagey." I like your putting the honest word to it. And I'm not necessarily being critical of Wolf. I think every GM in the NFL pretty much lies about which players they like or don't like or are pursuing or not. TT may do that, but he seems to lean toward the tactic of simply stonewalling, which is often much more aggravating to people than a well-told lie.

[retailguy]

That said, I miss his honesty. While Thompson is a better player talent evaluator, he's a lying prick. You can't believe anything that comes out of his mouth.

Ron Wolf also lied all the time, in GM circles he was famous for being one of the biggest liars of all time when it comes to players he's interested in, players he's not interested in, negotiations, or the draft. On a Packer pregame show a while back, the announcers were actually lamenting that Thompson didn't lie as much as Wolf did. If you ask Thompson about trading for a player from another team, Thompson will give you an honest answer of "I don't talk about players on other teams" while Wolf would just out and out lie to you and then do the opposite of whatever he just said at his earliest opportunity.

We like Ron Wolf, don't we?

What about "We're not rebuilding?"

What about "I'm painting my dreamhouse?"

It doesn't have to be player related, does it?

If he builds a winner, everyone will cheer.

If he doesn't he'll have compromised his character and that's NOT on the player responsibilities. That's about not being honest with his fans, and those he calls his supporters.

After you've given up your character and credibility what do you have left?

[Lurker64]

What about "We're not rebuilding?"

What about "I'm painting my dreamhouse?"

It doesn't have to be player related, does it?

If he builds a winner, everyone will cheer.

If he doesn't he'll have compromised his character and that's NOT on the player responsibilities. That's about not being honest with his fans, and those he calls his supporters.

Honestly, I'd be unhappy if the GM of my team didn't say those kinds of things, even if they're out and out lies and both I and the GM know that. Those are the sorts of things that are helpful to say. Saying "Most of these guys won't be in the league in two years and we'll be lucky to win 6 games, maybe in 3 years we'll be a competitor" doesn't really help a GM do his job.

If Thompson actually said things like this, it would be impossible for Thompson to sign free agents. Isn't that what a lot of the people most critical of Thompson would like? For him to be a brassier GM and go out and get some guys? Well to do that, you're going to need a guy who's willing and able to bend, spindle, and mutilate the truth. If you can tell a guy "We expect to be a superbowl contender" and get him to believe it, you have a hell of an easier time signing him than if you tell him "we're hoping to go 8-8."

If Thompson doesn't get results, knock him for not getting results. But don't be critical of the guy for telling the lies that competent GMs are supposed to tell.

[MJZiggy]

Not to be too picky here, but the painting of the dreamhouse was McCarthy, not Thompson...and he flat out said that he didn't want to call it rebuilding because he didn't want to give his players any kind of excuses for losing.

[retailguy]

What about "We're not rebuilding?"

What about "I'm painting my dreamhouse?"

It doesn't have to be player related, does it?

If he builds a winner, everyone will cheer.

If he doesn't he'll have compromised his character and that's NOT on the player responsibilities. That's about not being honest with his fans, and those he calls his supporters.

Honestly, I'd be unhappy if the GM of my team didn't say those kinds of things, even if they're out and out lies and both I and the GM know that. Those are the sorts of things that are helpful to say. Saying "Most of these guys won't be in the league in two years and we'll be lucky to win 6 games, maybe in 3 years we'll be a competitor" doesn't really help a GM do his job.

If Thompson actually said things like this, it would be impossible for Thompson to sign free agents. Isn't that what a lot of the people most critical of Thompson would like? For him to be a brassier GM and go out and get some guys? Well to do that, you're going to need a guy who's willing and able to bend, spindle, and mutilate the truth. If you can tell a guy "We expect to be a superbowl contender" and get him to believe it, you have a hell of an easier time signing him than if you tell him "we're hoping to go 8-8."

If Thompson doesn't get results, knock him for not getting results. But don't be critical of the guy for telling the lies that competent GMs are supposed to tell.

Lurker. I simply disagree. Arizona has been inept for years and still signs free agents. Some lies don't have to be told. They simply don't.

We'll see if they bring success.

[Fritz]

RG, I don't recollect any GM in the NFL ever saying that he was tearing his team apart and was rebuilding and really didn't expect to win for a few years. The closest I can think of was when Matt Millen rode into Detroit and said the 9-7 team he took over needed a big overhaul and he was the guy to do it - and he was going to do it fast cuz he had big expectations, quick.

Doh!

[Lurker64]

Lurker. I simply disagree. Arizona has been inept for years and still signs free agents. Some lies don't have to be told. They simply don't.

We'll see if they bring success.

Guys going to Arizona know they're going there to get paid and but they're not going to win a lot. They suit up every day, because they're getting paid a lot of money to do it, but you can tell that their hearts aren't in it because they know that the team's not going to go anywhere. When's the last time a FA that the Cardinals signed actually did something? The locker room atmosphere down there is legendarily bad because everyone there knows the team's bad, and nobody's really taken the time to convince them that they're not.

I want my GM guys convincing the guys that are coming in to expect to win, whether or not that's a reasonable expectation. Players run through brick walls to play for contenders. Players run to the bank to cash their paychecks to play for cellar dwellers.

[retailguy]

Lurker. I simply disagree. Arizona has been inept for years and still signs free agents. Some lies don't have to be told. They simply don't.

We'll see if they bring success.

Guys going to Arizona know they're going there to get paid and but they're not going to win a lot. They suit up every day, because they're getting paid a lot of money to do it, but you can tell that their hearts aren't in it because they know that the team's not going to go anywhere. When's the last time a FA that the Cardinals signed actually did something? The locker room atmosphere down there is legendarily bad because everyone there knows the team's bad, and nobody's really taken the time to convince them that they're not.

I want my GM guys convincing the guys that are coming in to expect to win, whether or not that's a reasonable expectation. Players run through brick walls to play for contenders. Players run to the bank to cash their paychecks to play for cellar dwellers.

What do you suppose Reggie White thought in 1993? All guys want to win and believe at some level that they will.

Did I want him to come out and say, "I'm gutting the team?" No, and neither did you. but isn't there a happy medium there somewhere instead of an out and out denial? The ravens in 2001 didn't lie to their fans. They said they'd need to "retool". They still are. They get Free agents. There are other examples too. Lets not focus on minor things like that.

Like I said, we'll see if the end justifies the means. Please note, I never said he wasn't a good talent evaluator. He's obviously very talented. Not sure he's a great leader at the other aspects of being a GM. That remains to be seen. Most of the complaints directed at Ted Thompson are aimed at things other than player evaluation. Most of the ardent supporters point to the player evaluation. It's an apple and orange discussion.

Any comparisons to Ron Wolf are a bit premature. Ron Wolf earned his respect through results. Had he not won, would he be anymore respected than Matt Millen? Guess we'll never know that, will we?

[son of a vic]

Retail, we've had our battles in the past, over Sherm and most recently Ned, but calling Ted a lying prick shows you can't judge his body of work without interjecting your clear personal bias against him.

So just come out and say that unless he wins a Super Bowl, he's a complete failure. Two years from now, if they are still in a rebuilding phase, I'll be right along side of you, pounding sand up ted's bung hole with a plunger. But it's way too early in the game, to have this much content for Uncle Ted.

You were so pro Sherm, and so anti Ted. It makes no sense man.

[son of a vic]

That said, I miss his honesty. While Thompson is a better player talent evaluator, he's a lying prick. You can't believe anything that comes out of his mouth.[/quote]

Yeah I liked how he accepted the blame for fourth and 26, by firing Donatell and Jags. A regular f'n mother theresa.

[RashanGary]

SOV, I am a (wait, THE) qualified judge of human morality and I will tell you right now that Sherman is a better man.

Being earths standing morality judge, I will testify now, for all to hear, that it is very likely Thompson rotts in hell for not coming out and telling everyone that the team he inheritted sucked. You guys may not be able to decipher these things but I, the devine morality judge, can see exactly what Ted is/was trying to do and his whole goal was to lie (just to lie) as he is a bad human. One of the few bad people acctually, the anti-christ if you will. I'm not affraid to make comments like this because I really do know everything and am the only human who can see intentions and judge them accurately.

[RashanGary]

If anyone ever has a question as to whether or not a person is inherantly good or evil, please PM me. I will be happy to peer into the soul of anyone in question and give you the answers that have, until this point, been unable to be determined by man kind.

I'm typically a pretty modest person but the reality is that I am god in human form. Please, don't refer to me as god, it's ebarassing and I'm not on some power trip about it. It's just who I am, so I have to deal with all of the responsiblity that goes with it.


The complete list of people who will make it to heaven:

Mike Sherman
Retail guy (I hope I spelled it right, man. I don't want you to spend an eternitiy in hell because of a clerical error)

[The Shadow]

That said, I miss his honesty. While Thompson is a better player talent evaluator, he's a lying prick. You can't believe anything that comes out of his mouth.

Ron Wolf also lied all the time, in GM circles he was famous for being one of the biggest liars of all time when it comes to players he's interested in, players he's not interested in, negotiations, or the draft. On a Packer pregame show a while back, the announcers were actually lamenting that Thompson didn't lie as much as Wolf did. If you ask Thompson about trading for a player from another team, Thompson will give you an honest answer of "I don't talk about players on other teams" while Wolf would just out and out lie to you and then do the opposite of whatever he just said at his earliest opportunity.

We don't mind this about Ron Wolf and we remember him fondly because he won. At the same time we look to find fault in TT because he's done some things we don't like, and even though it's the same faults that were worse in a guy that held the job before him, we lambast Thompson. At the same time, even though Sherman was a wretched GM we can at least play the "at least he was a good guy" card. I don't care if Thompson points and laughs at cripples, sends mean letters to orphans, or really hates kittens so long as he wins.

Lurker, I applaud you for great insight.
Well done; keep em coming.

[RashanGary]

accident

[son of a vic]

If anyone ever has a question as to whether or not a person is inherantly good or evil, please PM me. I will be happy to peer into the soul of anyone in question and give you the answers that have, until this point, been unable to be determined by man kind.

I'm typically a pretty modest person but the reality is that I am god in human form. Please, don't refer to me as god, it's ebarassing and I'm not on some power trip about it. It's just who I am, so I have to deal with all of the responsiblity that goes with it.


The complete list of people who will make it to heaven:

Mike Sherman
Retail guy (I hope I spelled it right, man. I don't want you to spend an eternitiy in hell because of a clerical error)

No room on Sherm's fluffy cloud for a silver haired lying prick?

Yeah, that's a fat joke, but I'm damned to hell anyways.

[Scott Campbell]

The complete list of people who will make it to heaven:

Mike Sherman
Retail Guy


Crap. I'm stuck with eternal damnation.

On the bright side, at least there weren't any Bears or their fans that made it. So I guess the cup is half full.

[Partial]

Lurker. I simply disagree. Arizona has been inept for years and still signs free agents. Some lies don't have to be told. They simply don't.

We'll see if they bring success.

Ummm Arizona has had a very difficult time up until the past 3-4 years signing free agents because they were historically bad. Same with Cinncinatti. Things are starting to look up there because they have had great DRAFT PICKS in Matt Leinart, Larry Fitz, Anquan Boldin, etc.

That's just about the poorest example. Your views on TT lieing are pretty dumb in my opinion because you never, ever tell your young guys and HOF qb that you're rebuilding.

[mmmdk]

...don't know if this is old news but here's what Ryan Grant cost the Pack (from the Green Bay Press-Gazette):

The Giants acquired a 2008 sixth-round pick in the trade that sent Ryan Grant to Green Bay over the weekend.

The pick is unconditional, so New York keeps it whether or not Grant plays a down for Green Bay. Grant will be the Packers' No. 3 back on Sunday, behind Brandon Jackson and DeShawn Wynn, if Vernand Morency (knee) sits out.