The Youth Movement

[vince]

The Packer roster continues to get younger - younger than even last year's squad, which I believe was the youngest in the league.

Here are the stats:

......................................2006........ ..........2007
Rookies/1st Yr. Players.......20.......................12
2nd-3rd Year.....................12....................... 23
4th-5th Year.......................8...................... ...7
6th-7th Year.......................5...................... ...2
8th-9th Year.......................5...................... ...5
10th-17th Year...................3.........................4

Average Age....................26.1....................25. 7

This begins to get to the heart of many of the debates around here. This is a troubling sign to many - and an encouraging one to others.

Ramifications for this year?
After watching and reading about our team throughout this preseason, I believe that there is very little comparison between the quality of this year's team versus last year's version. This year's squad, while younger, is light years ahead in terms of talent and experience. There are about 1/2 the number of rookies this year as compared to last, and twice as many 2nd and 3rd year players coming of age...

Obviously, time will tell whether that turns into an improved record.

[retailguy]

Vince,

This probably sums up why I'm discouraged for 2007 but encouraged for 2008 and beyond.

Too many mistakes as the young guys learn.. Maybe they'll have the best coaching in the NFL and go somewhere unexpectedly? We'll see.

[RashanGary]

There are about 1/2 the number of rookies this year as compared to last, and twice as many 2nd and 3rd year players coming of age...


This is why the sky is the limit, IMO.

[vince]

Agreed RG. I have expectations of growth this year though. If this team can get to the Bye Week 3-3 and relatively healthy, I'll be very encouraged. IF they stay healthy, I see no reason why they shouldn't be very competitive THIS YEAR in the NFC.

[retailguy]

Agreed RG. I have expectations of growth this year though. If this team can get to the Bye Week 3-3 and relatively healthy, I'll be very encouraged. IF they stay healthy, I see no reason why they shouldn't be very competitive THIS YEAR in the NFC.


I have hopes for growth too. But not that much that early. 2-4 will be an accomplishment. Even if we're 0-6 at the bye week, I still see 6-10, though I do expect us to beat either Minnesota or Washington before the bye week. Still unsure about the Giants.

3-3, wow, we hit that, I'd have to consider some cartwheels.

[RashanGary]

Hawk
Poppinga
Jolly
Jenkins
Jarrett Bush
Colledge
Spitz
Moll
Coston (can't believe I'm mentioning this guy in postitive light)
Jennings
Wells
C Williams
N. Collins



All guys who look to play and look to play better than themselves or whoever they replaced a year ago. This doesn't take into account the 2nd year with McCarthy's offense and the 2nd year with Sanders defense. There is some coaching continuity that we didn't have last year that we will have this year. I completely agree with RG that next year looks better but this one looks like it can be a good one too.

[vince]

Maybe they'll have the best coaching in the NFL and go somewhere unexpectedly? We'll see.
I also happen to be much higher on Mike McCarthy than most. I see a strong leader who knows what is necessary to achieve his vision - and is absolutely committed to doing everything necessary to get there.

He definitely had a couple learning moments last year, but he has the balls to go with his gut and and makes the adjustments necessary to be deliver an effective offensive attack. I am very high on him.

On D, I think the promotion of Winston Moss to Assistant Head Coach was more than a fluff promotion. I believe Moss is now the leader of the defense, and while Sanders still sends in the defensive signals, he's subserviant to Moss when it comes to gameplanning, preparation and overall communication between the linemen, backers and secondary throughout the week.

[MJZiggy]

3-3, wow, we hit that, I'd have to consider some cartwheels.

Can I get it on film???? :P :)

[Scott Campbell]

On D, I think the promotion of Winston Moss to Assistant Head Coach was more than a fluff promotion. I believe Moss is now the leader of the defense, and while Sanders still sends in the defensive signals, he's subserviant to Moss when it comes to gameplanning, preparation and overall communication between the linemen, backers and secondary throughout the week.


That's interesting Vince. What pointed you towards that hunch?

[vince]

On D, I think the promotion of Winston Moss to Assistant Head Coach was more than a fluff promotion. I believe Moss is now the leader of the defense, and while Sanders still sends in the defensive signals, he's subserviant to Moss when it comes to gameplanning, preparation and overall communication between the linemen, backers and secondary throughout the week.


That's interesting Vince. What pointed you towards that hunch?
It's speculative Scott, but last year, it was clear that the defense, while talented, suffered from coordination and communication problems. As we all know, it dramatically underperformed for the first 3/4 of the season.

I (along with many others) attributed that to Sanders, who was in his first ever real leadership role as D Coordinator. I believe Sanders is an adequate tactician and technician, but his leadership and communication skills are suspect. He has always been a quiet sort, and not a very effective communicator. When McCarthy began getting involved with the defensive meetings and gameplanning last year, the defense almost immediately began to improve.

I felt like Sanders would be fired after the season, and was surprised that he wasn't - given the defense's underperformance for most of the year. However, I hadn't considered that McCarthy would install a dynamic leader and effective communicator who shares his philosophies above the technician as a good solution to the deficiencies that existed. I think this is what happened and I also think it was a very creative and effective solution. Of course, that's assuming that I'm right in my theory... 8-)

But there's one thing I do know. You don't turn a technical personality like Sanders has 180 degrees around. You can't. It's either in him or it isn't, and I don't think it's in him.

Here is the first part of Packers.com description of Moss's role on the team. It's vague, but certainly consistent with what I'm saying... His official title is Assistant Head Coach/Defense.


Entering his 19th season in the National Football League and second with the Packers, imposing Winston Moss takes a new role of assistant head coach/defense in 2007.

Named to the new post by Head Coach Mike McCarthy on Jan. 15, 2007, Moss will continue to coach the linebackers as well, his original position upon joining the Packers in 2006.

As the assistant head coach, the 41-year-old Moss will be McCarthy's right-hand man with regard to administrative duties and team dynamics. A natural leader, Moss uses the same coaching philosophies he learned during an 11-year career as an NFL linebacker. His leadership skills impressed McCarthy when the two worked together for five seasons in New Orleans (2000-04) and again last year, prompting the promotion to a position McCarthy added to his staff in his second season at the helm.

[Harlan Huckleby]

I believe that there is very little comparison between the quality of this year's team versus last year's version. This year's squad, while younger, is light years ahead in terms of talent and experience.

A lot of the same starters from last year are in place. That bodes well. I don't know about "light years ahead in talent and experience."

[RashanGary]

That makes sense. Maybe he'll be our DC next year, but Sanders does some pretty good things with the front 4 that I would hate to lose.

They seem to be aggressive in their play calling this year. There were times where the Dline went all out at the quarterback on 1st and 10. Of course they gave up runs when the opposing team ran it but the opposing team had to put together a whole bunch of those to get to the endzone and they don't just guess right every time. So far our starting defense has been completely dominate and I think the aggressivness of the front four is a big part of why.

I just hope they don't take the guess work too far and give up big bombs like last year. So far they havn't. I think Sanders is a big part of that aggressive nature and success of the Dline this preseason. I've heard kamp say that he liked this DC becuase he really utilizes the Dline well. I don't know, I think Sanders has his strenghts, but Moss is probably much better with stuff behind the line as he's been coaching it for longer. They might make a pretty good team. I think the front four and the linebackers are the identity of this defense. I think that speaks for the job that Sanders and Moss are doing together as well as the talent they have been given. As far as fixing what killed us last year, I can definitly buy Moss being the answer more so than Sanders just becuase of the nature of his job experience.

[Scott Campbell]

I like it Vince. That would also point towards a D on the upswing, rather than a just a fluke last 4 games of the 06 season.

[Harlan Huckleby]

I also happen to be much higher on Mike McCarthy than most. I see a strong leader who knows what is necessary to achieve his vision - and is absolutely committed to doing everything necessary to get there .

I have little feel for McCarthy. He seems like a decent, reasonable fellow. I haven't sensed what kind of tactician he is on game day.

[vince]

That makes sense. Maybe he'll be our DC next year, but Sanders does some pretty good things with the front 4 that I would hate to lose.

They seem to be aggressive in their play calling this year. There were times where the Dline went all out at the quarterback on 1st and 10. Of course they gave up runs when the opposing team ran it but the opposing team had to put together a whole bunch of those to get to the endzone and they don't just guess right every time. So far our starting defense has been completely dominate and I think the aggressivness of the front four is a big part of why.

I just hope they don't take the guess work too far and give up big bombs like last year. So far they havn't. I think Sanders is a big part of that aggressive nature and success of the Dline this preseason. I've heard kamp say that he liked this DC becuase he really utilizes the Dline well. I don't know, I think Sanders has his strenghts, but Moss is probably much better with stuff behind the line as he's been coaching it for longer. They might make a pretty good team. I think the front four and the linebackers are the identity of this defense. I think that speaks for the job that Sanders and Moss are doing together as well as the talent they have been given. As far as fixing what killed us last year, I can definitly buy Moss being the answer more so than Sanders just becuase of the nature of his job experience.
Absolutely agree. I think the solution to promote Moss, while keeping Sanders, was the best possible solution. Better than the one that I was advocating - firing Sanders outright. In the immortal words of TT, "the proofs in the pudding." It's certainly looking good thus far.

[Rastak]

That makes sense. Maybe he'll be our DC next year, but Sanders does some pretty good things with the front 4 that I would hate to lose.

They seem to be aggressive in their play calling this year. There were times where the Dline went all out at the quarterback on 1st and 10. Of course they gave up runs when the opposing team ran it but the opposing team had to put together a whole bunch of those to get to the endzone and they don't just guess right every time. So far our starting defense has been completely dominate and I think the aggressivness of the front four is a big part of why.

I just hope they don't take the guess work too far and give up big bombs like last year. So far they havn't. I think Sanders is a big part of that aggressive nature and success of the Dline this preseason. I've heard kamp say that he liked this DC becuase he really utilizes the Dline well. I don't know, I think Sanders has his strenghts, but Moss is probably much better with stuff behind the line as he's been coaching it for longer. They might make a pretty good team. I think the front four and the linebackers are the identity of this defense. I think that speaks for the job that Sanders and Moss are doing together as well as the talent they have been given. As far as fixing what killed us last year, I can definitly buy Moss being the answer more so than Sanders just becuase of the nature of his job experience.
Absolutely agree. I think the solution to promote Moss, while keeping Sanders, was the best possible solution. Better than the one that I was advocating - firing Sanders outright. In the immortal words of TT, "the proofs in the pudding." It's certainly looking good thus far.


Promote Moss to DC and keep Sanders? In what world would that work?

[RashanGary]

Promoted Moss to assistant HC and kept Sanders as DC.

[retailguy]

3-3, wow, we hit that, I'd have to consider some cartwheels.

Can I get it on film???? :P :)

I guess that depends on what I'd get if they go 2-4 or below? :shock:

[Rastak]

Promoted Moss to assistant HC and kept Sanders as DC.


Sanders still runs the defense in that arrangement.

[BallHawk]

3-3, wow, we hit that, I'd have to consider some cartwheels.

Can I get it on film???? :P :)

I guess that depends on what I'd get if they go 2-4 or below? :shock:

I'm anxiously awaiting Bretsky's response to this one. :wink:

[MJZiggy]

3-3, wow, we hit that, I'd have to consider some cartwheels.

Can I get it on film???? :P :)

I guess that depends on what I'd get if they go 2-4 or below? :shock:

I'll send you a couple Valium...

[vince]

Promoted Moss to assistant HC and kept Sanders as DC.


Sanders still runs the defense in that arrangement.
That's the traditional, generic arrangement. What evidence tells you that's the case in this instance?

[Rastak]

Promoted Moss to assistant HC and kept Sanders as DC.


Sanders still runs the defense in that arrangement.
That's the traditional, generic arrangement. What evidence tells you that's the case in this instance?



My evidence is that only an idiot would agree to such an arrangement. I'll give you a real world example. My boss says I am the boss over my department but the guy who reports to me has the final call. If shit goes wrong the other 31 teams (in a football sense) assume I am a dumbass thus killing my future employment. Would anyone with a minimum of half a brain agree to that? DC has full control over the defense unless the HC is a defensive guy, in which case I'm sure as common sense tells us, that the arrangement is understood FROM THE START.


Anyway, in the interest of an honest debate and discussion, Vince, what would you consider a viable scenario where the current DC cedes authority to someone else despite the title?

[Guiness]

My evidence is that only an idiot would agree to such an arrangement. I'll give you a real world example. My boss says I am the boss over my department but the guy who reports to me has the final call. If shit goes wrong the other 31 teams (in a football sense) assume I am a dumbass thus killing my future employment. Would anyone with a minimum of half a brain agree to that? DC has full control over the defense unless the HC is a defensive guy, in which case I'm sure as common sense tells us, that the arrangement is understood FROM THE START.


Anyway, in the interest of an honest debate and discussion, Vince, what would you consider a viable scenario where the current DC cedes authority to someone else despite the title?

Actually, something similar happened right here last year. Schot was sent to the booth, and by all accounts it was Lionel Washington making the calls on the field. Even though Schott still carried the title of secondary coach.

I dunno. Maybe that's not quite right, but that's how I understood it.

[Rastak]

My evidence is that only an idiot would agree to such an arrangement. I'll give you a real world example. My boss says I am the boss over my department but the guy who reports to me has the final call. If shit goes wrong the other 31 teams (in a football sense) assume I am a dumbass thus killing my future employment. Would anyone with a minimum of half a brain agree to that? DC has full control over the defense unless the HC is a defensive guy, in which case I'm sure as common sense tells us, that the arrangement is understood FROM THE START.


Anyway, in the interest of an honest debate and discussion, Vince, what would you consider a viable scenario where the current DC cedes authority to someone else despite the title?

Actually, something similar happened right here last year. Schot was sent to the booth, and by all accounts it was Lionel Washington making the calls on the field. Even though Schott still carried the title of secondary coach.

I dunno. Maybe that's not quite right, but that's how I understood it.


So a position coach was making the defensive calls?

[retailguy]

3-3, wow, we hit that, I'd have to consider some cartwheels.

Can I get it on film???? :P :)

I guess that depends on what I'd get if they go 2-4 or below? :shock:

I'll send you a couple Valium...

doesn't exactly sound like a fair swap.

[vince]

Vince, what would you consider a viable scenario where the current DC cedes authority to someone else despite the title?
In a scenario where a DC, who believes deeply in a team concept and learns through first-time experience that there are certain interpersonal communication skills required for success that he doesn't possess naturally - thus adding significant personal stress and hindering the team from achieving its objectives. That individual believes heavily in the team concept and learns a lot about himself through the experience as well as the pressures related to continuing failure.

Ras, trust me on this. Countless people who think they want to climb the corporate/organizational ladder step into leadership positions, only to find out that they are better suited to fulfilling a modified role from that which they were previously assigned. Those individuals who are team players often recommend a rearrangement of organizational responsibilities to better help the team achieve its goals.

Even if Sanders didn't "suggest" the modified roles, he could very well have been given a choice.

1. You're fired.
2. You stay in your current role, and we are going to create a position in which leadership and coordination roles will be "shared" by an "Assistant Head Coach/Defense" allowing you to save face and at the same time, focus your efforts toward team success that are much better geared toward your substantial strengths as a defensive tactician.

You (or anyone else) might choose to leave. A team guy like Bob Sanders might choose option 2.

Edit: also, after re-reading your example, there's one thing you cited that is inconsistent with this situation.... Moss doesn't report to Sanders as Assistant Head Coach/Defense. It was explicitly stated when the announcement was made that he reports directly to McCarthy. I'm not going to go back and find McCarthy's statement about it, unless you want me to. I can assure you that's the case here though.

[Rastak]

Vince, what would you consider a viable scenario where the current DC cedes authority to someone else despite the title?
In a scenario where a DC, who believes deeply in a team concept and learns through first-time experience that there are certain interpersonal communication skills required for success that he doesn't possess naturally - thus adding significant personal stress and hindering the team from achieving its objectives. That individual believes heavily in the team concept and learns a lot about himself through the experience as well as the pressures related to continuing failure.

Ras, trust me on this. Countless people who think they want to climb the corporate/organizational ladder step into leadership positions, only to find out that they are better suited to fulfilling a modified role from that which they were previously assigned. Those individuals who are team players often recommend a rearrangement of organizational responsibilities to better help the team achieve its goals.

Even if Sanders didn't "suggest" the modified roles, he could very well have been given a choice.

1. You're fired.
2. You stay in your current role, and we are going to create a position in which leadership and coordination roles will be "shared" by an "Assistant Head Coach/Defense" allowing you to save face and at the same time, focus your efforts toward team success that are much better geared toward your substantial strengths as a defensive tactician.

You (or anyone else) might choose to leave. A team guy like Bob Sanders might choose option 2.


I guess we'll have to disagree. I'd quit and I would guess most people would at that level (my guess).....maybe not. I do understand your premise. But I have to admit I've never heard of an assistent basically assuming the title without having it.....do you have any examples?

[Guiness]

My evidence is that only an idiot would agree to such an arrangement. I'll give you a real world example. My boss says I am the boss over my department but the guy who reports to me has the final call. If shit goes wrong the other 31 teams (in a football sense) assume I am a dumbass thus killing my future employment. Would anyone with a minimum of half a brain agree to that? DC has full control over the defense unless the HC is a defensive guy, in which case I'm sure as common sense tells us, that the arrangement is understood FROM THE START.


Anyway, in the interest of an honest debate and discussion, Vince, what would you consider a viable scenario where the current DC cedes authority to someone else despite the title?

Actually, something similar happened right here last year. Schot was sent to the booth, and by all accounts it was Lionel Washington making the calls on the field. Even though Schott still carried the title of secondary coach.

I dunno. Maybe that's not quite right, but that's how I understood it.


So a position coach was making the defensive calls?

Not the overall defensive calls of course. Just managing the secondary. I got the idea that LW was running the secondary, while Schott was up in the booth. Maybe someone here knows a little more about what happened?

[vince]

Not that are verifiable on the web. I can tell you that I've personally experienced it a dozen times or so in my professional life, both directly (where people I've promoted found out the requirements of the job made them too stressed, and indirectly where people that reported to me have hired people who found out that they preferred a position of lower responsibility - for a number of personal reasons...

[Rastak]

Not that are verifiable on the web. I can tell you that I've personally experienced it a dozen times or so in my professional life, both directly (where people I've promoted found out the requirements of the job made them too stressed, and indirectly where people that reported to me have hired people who found out that they preferred a position of lower responsibility - for a number of personal reasons...


Oh, I completely and 100% agree. I know a few myself...but they never serve as a figurehead. They move to a different position. I'm just not sure a DC would accept a demotion if he thought he was doing the job properly and didn't have the issues you mentioned.

[vince]

I gotta go Ras. I will close by admitting wholeheartedly that I don't know for sure that Moss is "leading" the defense. I do think it's clear that he has an expanded role though. Have a good one.

[Rastak]

I gotta go Ras. I will close by admitting wholeheartedly that I don't know for sure that Moss is "leading" the defense. I do think it's clear that he has an expanded role though. Have a good one.


You too. I do see your larger point, and I agree. Just not sure on the NFL translation.

[Scott Campbell]

Not that are verifiable on the web. I can tell you that I've personally experienced it a dozen times or so in my professional life, both directly (where people I've promoted found out the requirements of the job made them too stressed, and indirectly where people that reported to me have hired people who found out that they preferred a position of lower responsibility - for a number of personal reasons...


Also can be referred to as getting your wings clipped. It happens.

[Rastak]

Not that are verifiable on the web. I can tell you that I've personally experienced it a dozen times or so in my professional life, both directly (where people I've promoted found out the requirements of the job made them too stressed, and indirectly where people that reported to me have hired people who found out that they preferred a position of lower responsibility - for a number of personal reasons...


Also can be referred to as getting your wings clipped. It happens.

So when the defense meets in the defense meeting room does Sanders speak and look over to Moss to see what he is supposed to say or does Moss speak and Sanders sits in the back under this scenario?


Again, unless this arrangement is pre-done I'm not sure how it work without the title...someone explain how that would work.

[MJZiggy]

3-3, wow, we hit that, I'd have to consider some cartwheels.

Can I get it on film???? :P :)

I guess that depends on what I'd get if they go 2-4 or below? :shock:

I'll send you a couple Valium...

doesn't exactly sound like a fair swap.

Well I don't want to offer anything too good or you'll be rooting for them to lose....

[Fritz]

I think everybody's missing the real point: Isn't Winston Moss the main character of George Orwell's 1984? And doesn't that worry anyone?

Seriously, this was one of the more interesting debates on this site in a while. Two thoughtful people actually making interesting points, complete with examples, in a civil way.

Refreshing.

[retailguy]

I think everybody's missing the real point: Isn't Winston Moss the main character of George Orwell's 1984? And doesn't that worry anyone?

Seriously, this was one of the more interesting debates on this site in a while. Two thoughtful people actually making interesting points, complete with examples, in a civil way.

Refreshing.

Thx. Ziggy and I tried hard. :P

[MJZiggy]

:lol: :lol: :bump:

[Fritz]

I meant Justin Harrell and Harlan.

[retailguy]

I meant Justin Harrell and Harlan.

They didn't try as hard as we did.

[vince]

Not that are verifiable on the web. I can tell you that I've personally experienced it a dozen times or so in my professional life, both directly (where people I've promoted found out the requirements of the job made them too stressed, and indirectly where people that reported to me have hired people who found out that they preferred a position of lower responsibility - for a number of personal reasons...


Also can be referred to as getting your wings clipped. It happens.

So when the defense meets in the defense meeting room does Sanders speak and look over to Moss to see what he is supposed to say or does Moss speak and Sanders sits in the back under this scenario?


Again, unless this arrangement is pre-done I'm not sure how it work without the title...someone explain how that would work.
Here's how it could work. There could be a "partnership" at the top of the defense. Prior to player meetings, the coaches - with Moss and Sanders at the top of the heirarchy (both reporting to McCarthy and taking input from the position coaches) review film/analyze the team/develop a game plan. Where there are disagreements in analysis/strategy, McCarthy "breaks the tie." This is perhaps where the increased agressiveness has come from (Moss's and to a lesser extent McCarthy's increased role in defensive strategy development).

Everyone is then on the same page with regard to player communications. In this scenario, Sanders could very well even lead film study and strategy breakdown during player meetings, with the occasional interjection from Moss and the position coaches.

Moss is described as a great leader, and one thing great leaders do (among many things) is empower others, so I would not doubt that he cedes "control" in the player meeting discussions to Sanders, but Sanders is instituting a plan that Moss was instrumental in developing - much more instrumental than last year.

In this scenario, Sanders in effect, cedes authority to Moss, as Moss possesses more political weight with McCarthy, who ultimately approves or rejects the decisions in which he chooses to involve himself or those he is pulled into (when Moss doesn't think things are going the way he wants).

[RashanGary]

Not to jump in mid conversation here, but I have a different angle at this that might relate.

I'll use a Sherman/McCarthy example. Sherman and McCarthy both ran the offense. Sherman was hands off with the QB's and WR's and he was the guy with the Oline and running backs. McCArthy is the guy with the QB and the passing game and he gives the running game to Jags and now Philbin. You find a guy who does what you don't do well and you hand it over. It's a good way to do things IMO (that's assuming you don't hire and stick with Tom Rosley)

Sanders probably runs the Dline and he realized that Moss is skilled at handling other areas so he wisely hands over large amounts of responsiblity that he knows Moss is better at to Moss. There is nothing wrong with that IMO, it's giving up authority for the good of the team and it's good leadership in my opinion. I think people respect a guy who is willing to let his staff do their job and make decisions.

[vince]

Not to jump in mid conversation here, but I have a different angle at this that might relate.

I'll use a Sherman/McCarthy example. Sherman and McCarthy both ran the offense. Sherman was hands off with the QB's and WR's and he was the guy with the Oline and running backs. McCArthy is the guy with the QB and the passing game and he gives the running game to Jags and now Philbin. You find a guy who does what you don't do well and you hand it over. It's a good way to do things IMO (that's assuming you don't hire and stick with Tom Rosley)

Sanders probably runs the Dline and he realized that Moss is skilled at handling other areas so he wisely hands over large amounts of responsiblity that he knows Moss is better at to Moss. There is nothing wrong with that IMO, it's giving up authority for the good of the team and it's good leadership in my opinion. I think people respect a guy who is willing to let his staff do their job and make decisions.
Right on, and in the end, there's a lot of trust and communication between them.

But you're also right (IMO) in your assertion that the defense has taken on a new aggressive character that it didn't possess most of last year.... Regardless of who that is attribuable to in terms of leadership, it's definitely a good sign heading into the year.

Now it better continue, since the games start counting...!

[Rastak]

Gotta crash shortly but working together should be assumed. I would guess they all contribute. BUT on game day the DC makes the defensive calls. I really don't understand how a positon coach can outrank the DC. Actually I should say I'm a bit wrong. There are instances when a OC/DC does not make the calls but I don't think the person would stay that long in the job
and it's usally a transition thing.....


That's my take....

[vince]

Gotta crash shortly but working together should be assumed. I would guess they all contribute. BUT on game day the DC makes the defensive calls. I really don't understand how a positon coach can outrank the DC. Actually I should say I'm a bit wrong. There are instances when a OC/DC does not make the calls but I don't think the person would stay that long in the job
and it's usally a transition thing.....


That's my take....
You seem to be looking at this backwards...
1. Moss is not JUST the linebackers coach. He's the Assistant Head Coach/Defense and he reports directly to Mike McCarthy. He doesn't report to Sanders as the other postion coaches more or less do.
2. The DC makes the alignment/coverage/stunt calls, but that doesn't mean he makes the strategic decisions that dictate the calls...It's just like a head coach that doesn't call the offensive plays - except this is the defensive side of the ball... The strategic decisionmaking behind the calls is already in place... Also, in this case, I think Moss is in the booth on game day, talking into Sanders' ear all day long... Although that could change this year....

[vince]

Vince,

This probably sums up why I'm discouraged for 2007 but encouraged for 2008 and beyond.

Too many mistakes as the young guys learn.. Maybe they'll have the best coaching in the NFL and go somewhere unexpectedly? We'll see.
I personally like the fact that this organization prefers talent and scheme fit over tenure. Yes, we'll have to live with some mistakes, but they can be coached up. You can't teach talent.