OL and DL: Good Things Coming

[Partial]

I am blown away by how quickly the offensive line has developed some depth. While the starters were better in 2003 and 2004, the depth was not what it is now.

Last year, Tony Moll proved to be a pretty decent 6th linemen. He clearly needed to improve his strength and get some more seasoning under his belt. Despite doing these things, he is now the 8th best linemen on the team. That is a good problem to have.

I hope Juice turns out to be a player. That would be absolutely great and would allow TT to use some of those 150 draft picks on other positions.

Barbre also looks like he is a solid rookie and will grow into being a pretty decent player.

While the starters aren't at the 2004 level yet, the depth has exceeded that. Now they need to keep working together and hitting the weights hard. I don't think they're destined to be much better than average this year, but I would suspect in the future that they would be one of the better units in the league and would be able to handle an injury as well as any team.


The defensive line is just straight up ridiculous. The Harrell pick is looking worse and worse because the players they have seem to be solid as a rock. If I had to make a guess right now, Corey Williams won't be back with the team next year. They have a surplus right now and unless he proves himself invaluable or able to seperate himself from the pack he will likely be gone.

I would wager my money that we have the deepest, most versatile DLine in the league. We have solid players and people that are capable starters as back-ups to handle any situation, be it running or passing. That is an excellent problem to have.

That said, I think these two units are solid as a rock and have the foundation set to be very good for years to come. This is the way that teams that annually compete are built (see New England, Philadelphia, etc). That is definitely a good thing.

[RashanGary]

If Corey Williams leaves next year he'll probably start and we'll get a pick for losing him via FA. Jolly steppiing up the way he did made Williams a little more expendable but if he can play DE it might help next year when KGB is probably gone.

[RashanGary]

I was thinking the same thing about the Oline.

Barbre, Coston, ??, Palmer, Moll

I see good things in all of these guys. I woudln't be suprised if 2 or 3 of them are good starters for us some day. At the very least it looks like the OT problem when Cliff and Tauch leave will be about 1/100 of the problem that the OG was when Wahle and Rivera left.

[PaCkFan_n_MD]

Notebook: Coston matures into top backup on line

By Pete Dougherty
pdougher@greenbaypressgazette.com

Junius Coston has become the Packers' No. 6 offensive lineman and likely would play if any starter is injured after his performance took a major step forward in training camp this year.


Coston, a third-year pro, can play all five positions on the offensive line and is the top backup at left guard, right guard and right tackle. Either he or, more likely Daryn Colledge, is the top backup at left tackle, but if starter Chad Clifton gets injured and Colledge moves into that spot, Coston would replace Colledge at left guard. Right guard Jason Spitz is the backup center (Coston is the No. 3), so if starter Scott Wells gets injured, Spitz probably would move to center, and Coston would replace Spitz at right guard.


When the Packers drafted Coston in the fifth round out of the North Carolina A&T in 2005, they knew he'd be a project but nevertheless were disappointed when he failed to stay in the running for long with then-rookies Colledge and Spitz for a starting job at guard as a second-year pro last year.


This year, however, Coston had by far his best training camp.


"He fit into his body maybe a little bit," said Joe Philbin, the Packers' offensive coordinator and Coston's offensive line coach his first two seasons. "He's learning to play more explosively. He's got some natural power in the running game, very good athlete, very good feet, and his technique is coming. I think it's really been technique catching up with him, fundamentals. He's not there yet, but he's certainly made a lot of progress fundamentally. That's translating into better play on the field."


Rookie Allen Barbre, a fourth-round pick, has shown good potential as a left guard and perhaps left tackle, but Coston moved ahead of him as training camp went on. Tony Moll, who is practicing only part-time while recovering from a shoulder-neck stinger, is the No. 3 right tackle. Tony Palmer is the No. 3 right guard.


Coston ticked off several reasons for his marked improvement, such as reducing his body fat, gaining strength and improving footwork.


"Kind of like a light went off, to be serious with you," he said. "Kind of like with most guys."

[PaCkFan_n_MD]

Defensive tackle Jolly makes giant strides

After subpar rookie year, he's pushing for starting job

By Rob Demovsky
rdemovsk@greenbaypressgazette.com


It turns out the Green Bay Packers weren't just pumping up Johnny Jolly during training camp in an effort to drum up interest on the trading market because of their surplus at defensive tackle.


No, the Packers came away so impressed with the second-year pro's preseason performance that he's been thrust into the mix of potential starters alongside Ryan Pickett on the interior of the defensive line.


When it comes time to select a starter this week for Sunday's regular-season opener against the Philadelphia Eagles, defensive coordinator Bob Sanders and coach Mike McCarthy just might go with Jolly. If that becomes a reality, it would cap one of the greatest about-faces in recent team history.


A year ago, Jolly was something of a long shot to stick on the Packers' 53-man roster when they broke camp. As a rookie sixth-round draft pick, Jolly was slowed by the ankle injury that dogged him during his final season at Texas A&M and subsequently led to him being available to the Packers with the 183rd overall pick in the 2006 draft.


Jolly didn't see the field in the regular season until the sixth game, and two weeks later, was inactive for another five-game stretch. He finally found a regular spot in the rotation late in the season and played the final four games as a backup.


A year later, he appears to have beaten out Corey Williams (an 11-game starter last season) and Colin Cole (who has made eight starts over the last three seasons) for that second defensive tackle spot. All three are likely to play ahead of rookie first-round draft pick Justin Harrell — who, along with the sixth defensive tackle on the roster, rookie free agent Daniel Muir, are likely to be Week 1 inactives.


No starting spot is safe at the Packers' deepest position, but for reasons that include his preseason performance and how he matches up against the Eagles' offensive line, the 6-foot-3, 320-pound Jolly could be the opening-day starter.


"He came in last year and had the ankle, but he kept flashing things, so we knew it was coming," said Packers defensive tackles coach Robert Nunn, who on Monday would not reveal whether Jolly will start this week. "We just had to get him healthy."


Jolly spent all offseason in Green Bay but showed up for training camp out of shape.


He couldn't pass the running test administered the day before practice began, but coaches chalked that up to the time he spent away from the gym this summer while dealing with the death of a close family friend.


When Jolly was cleared to practice three days into camp, his offseason work showed up. He added about 5 pounds, mostly in the muscles of his lower body. That helped him play with better anchor and made it nearly impossible for offensive linemen to move him around. He also worked on his pass-rush moves and though he's probably not the pass rusher that Williams is from the inside, he stood out during the one-on-one drills this summer.


"He had a very good camp," Sanders said of Jolly. "He's matured into his role. It's still a work in progress, but he's becoming a professional."


Jolly's role — and that of the rest of the defensive tackles — is far from set in stone. Sanders and Nunn said on Monday that a guy could be a starter one week and a backup the next. Nunn said he considers four of the tackles to be legitimate starters. Though he didn't name names, he was presumably speaking of Cole, Jolly, Pickett and Williams. He wouldn't say for sure that Harrell would be inactive this week, but it's unlikely he would be on the 45-man game-day roster considering last year the Packers almost always dressed four defensive tackles.


"We've got six defensive tackles that could go out there and start," Jolly said. "So you never know from game to game."


That's nothing new for this group, however, considering that last year Cole opened the season as a starter and by Week 3 he was a healthy inactive. In all likelihood, Nunn and Sanders will try to play to each tackle's strengths. For example, Jolly might see more work on early downs because he's more adept at stopping the run, while Williams (who had a career-high seven sacks last season) probably will see more action on third downs and in obvious passing situations because he's a better pass rusher.


"That's tough, man, because you really don't know," Williams said. "It's kind of irritating, but we're all good guys and not selfish. If it's me starting, then fine. If it's Jolly starting or Cole starting, then fine. Whoever it might be, we're all going to be prepared to play regardless.


"Johnny worked a lot with the first group (on Monday), so that's what I'm saying. You just never know."


Green Bay Packers defensive tackle Johnny Jolly runs through drills during practice on Clarke Hinkle Field on Monday. The former sixth-round draft pick has blossomed into a possible starter in his second year as a pro. H. Marc Larson/Press-Gazette

[BEARMAN]

Kool-Aid, ... KOOL - AID for everyone... :doh:

[Joemailman]

Kool-Aid, ... KOOL - AID for everyone... :doh:

You know you want some. :glug:

[Scott Campbell]

Kool-Aid, ... KOOL - AID for everyone... :doh:

You know you want some. :glug:


Have you heard Bearman talk about Grossman? He's been over served, and somebody needs to take away his keys.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Have you heard Bearman talk about Grossman? He's been over served, and somebody needs to take away his keys.

or cut his brake line.

[Bretsky]

I have seen GREAT evidence of the DL improving via games
I have seeen no evidence of the OL improving from last year via games

Not saying it won't happen, but I need to see the evidence in games as opposed to all these homerism fluff pieces before I believe it.

[RashanGary]

I have seen GREAT evidence of the DL improving via games
I have seeen no evidence of the OL improving from last year via games

Not saying it won't happen, but I need to see the evidence in games as opposed to all these homerism fluff pieces before I believe it.

The pass protection has been very good. Favre has one sack and they havn't gone into max protect at all.


So far they are good at pass protection and bad at run blocking. Coming out of preseason they are average if you take the mean of the run blocking and the pass blocking. Last year they were bad in both, which means they have made improvements. I have argued that they will get the run game going in the regular season becuase they were being carefull not to hurt anyone in the preseason.

[RashanGary]

Also, last year they averaged 2.3 yards per carry in the preseason and this year they averaged 3.3 yards per carry so while they are not knocking anyones socks off, they are better than they were a year ago and that is taking into consideration losing Green.

I think the biggest improvements are on defense and ST's but the passing offense will improve and the run offense has already improved from this point last year so I think it will be improvements accross the board.

[Harlan Huckleby]

There is little to be said about the OL. They improved over last season. They looked like shit this summer (run blocking.)

No real evidence for optimism or pessimism.

[RashanGary]

There is little to be said about the OL. They improved over last season. They looked like shit this summer (run blocking.)

No real evidence for optimism or pessimism.

I don't know if I agree, HH.

Pass blocking looks better
Run blocking has been better than a year go at the same point

Overall, I think we've seen a better unit than a year ago. It's not reason for crazy optimism but if you think the defense and ST's are already better, a small gain on offnese might be enough. I think there is some optimism in that.

[BEARMAN]

I have seen GREAT evidence of the DL improving via games
I have seeen no evidence of the OL improving from last year via games

Not saying it won't happen, but I need to see the evidence in games as opposed to all these homerism fluff pieces before I believe it.
Why am I agreeing with you alot lately ? :doh:

[Bretsky]

I have seen GREAT evidence of the DL improving via games
I have seeen no evidence of the OL improving from last year via games

Not saying it won't happen, but I need to see the evidence in games as opposed to all these homerism fluff pieces before I believe it.
Why am I agreeing with you alot lately ? :doh:

Maybe you are getting smarter :lol:

[Deputy Nutz]

I am not totally sold on the offensive line this preseason. I know they didn't game plan, or work the cut blocks but we simply don't have an interior that is going to push people of the line of scrimmage. Well not at this point anyways.

[Noodle]

Why would anyone say our OL looks good this year? Better than last year, sure, but warmed over shite is still, in the end, shite.

They do ok pass blocking, especially when we keep the TE and a back for passpro, but cripes, can anybody around here open a friggin' hole? And can't we passpro a 5 or 7 step drop without going max protect?

I don't want to get too epic, but I think TT, or, more accurately, our scouting department, has a weakness: we don't know dink about OL. We're world beaters at WR, darn good at DL, and nobody's momma at DB and LB.

But tell me one OL standout we've brought in through FA or the draft. Don't waste my time with "he looks like he might be good some day." And yeah, I know it takes a while for a rook to develop, but that's why you trade or go get some seasoned wide load in FA.

[Partial]

For what its worth, I said they are not especially good on the top, but they have good depth.

[Bretsky]

For what its worth, I said they are not especially good on the top, but they have good depth.


Depth would appear to be an unproven but JS Fluff'd Orange Juice Coston, a rookie in Barbe at OT, and heck, I don't know who else. Oops, and Moll; I'm not sold on his completely either but he looked somewhat respectable for "part" of last season.

I see our interior OL as a weakness
I'm not sure about our depth; just not sure at this point.

[HarveyWallbangers]

I won't judge the OL until the season starts. The interior OL was decent--considering they had 3 1st starters. Tons better than the guys the year before. It would have been easy for them to fail. I expect them to be better, and I won't write them off because of their preseason struggles. Hell, this preseason was a hell of a lot better than last preseason.

I'm not willing to say they are a weakness or a strength at this point. Philbin doesn't seem to be full of fluff, so if he says Coston is much better and he expects Barbre to be a solid starter some day, I put credence into that. Moll did pretty darn well for a former college TE starting as a rookie. They SHOULD improve. We'll see how much starting this weekend.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Why would anyone say our OL looks good this year?


A. they could be a homer. Or B. the wife of the OL coach. Or C. they could say the line has been together for a year, so they are likely to progress. I choose B.

[Patler]

I have seen GREAT evidence of the DL improving via games
I have seeen no evidence of the OL improving from last year via games

Not saying it won't happen, but I need to see the evidence in games as opposed to all these homerism fluff pieces before I believe it.
Why am I agreeing with you alot lately ? :doh:

Maybe you are getting smarter :lol:

Bretsky; If my posts about the Packers had become consistent with the thinking of a Bears fan, I would engage in a serious session of self-criticism and evaluation! :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

[packers04]

duh, of course our run blocking has been shitty this offseason, we dont cut block our own players... we havent cut block for 90 percent of the preseason games either out of respect for other teams d-linemen. dont underestimate how much impact cut blocking has in the zone blocking scheme. because its a big impact.

[Bretsky]

duh, of course our run blocking has been shitty this offseason, we dont cut block our own players... we havent cut block for 90 percent of the preseason games either out of respect for other teams d-linemen. dont underestimate how much impact cut blocking has in the zone blocking scheme. because its a big impact.


One could also theorize that defenses are playing bland much of the preseason and not showing their top stunts/trick plays...etc

if if if

That's all I have to say about the run game; we'll see soon