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HarveyWallbangers
09-08-2007, 09:11 PM
Crusty Bob is on board apparently.

Rebuilt Packers are much better than advertised
By Bob McGinn

Green Bay - In April, May, June and July, fans of the Green Bay Packers fixated on the team's failed bid to acquire Randy Moss.

In August, they became preoccupied with the void at running back and the disappointing showing of top pick Justin Harrell in training camp.

All the while, the gloom-and-doom crowd either took for granted or just plain missed the rebuilding of the football team, piece by piece, in the National Football League's smallest city.

Twelve games into last season, the Packers found themselves six games in arrears of the Chicago Bears, who already had clinched the NFC North Division championship. Then the Packers won their last four games to finish 8-8, still a lopsided five games behind the Bears.

Today, Green Bay commences the regular season regarded by many prognosticators as a team to watch because of its defense but offering little or no threat to Chicago.

Sports Illustrated pegged the Packers to finish 6-10, tied for second with Minnesota behind the 11-5 Bears.

After polling a beat writer covering each of the 32 teams and 10 of its own people, Pro Football Weekly tabbed Green Bay as third in the division behind Chicago and Detroit. The Bears were No. 4 and the Packers were No. 19 in the PFW power poll.

It doesn't surprise me.

The Packers were awful in 2005 (4-12, seven games behind the Bears), they weren't much better for the bulk of '06 and their deficiencies entering this season have dominated coverage of the team. Whether it's the national media or Joe Fan, the Packers of '07 are Brett Favre and his pursuit of all-time records surrounded by an almost-anonymous coach, an almost-anonymous general manager and 52 mostly anonymous players.

Unless you follow the team closely, you wouldn't even recognize the names of the majority of the starters. Unless you've seen the Packers on an almost daily basis, you wouldn't know just how many of these anonymous players made significant jumps this summer.

The truth of the matter is the Packers are much better than just about anyone realizes. And the guess here is that the Packers will go on to one of their more satisfying seasons and win the NFC North at 10-6, one game better than the Bears.

Putting it in terms of percentages, the Packers would have about a 50% chance of winning the division, the Bears would have 45%, the Vikings would have 5% and the Lions would have none.

Some observers in Detroit think that team has turned the corner with Calvin Johnson, Rod Marinelli and Mike Martz. Well, the Lions might have to score 600 points because their inept defense is liable to give up 500, even in the offense-starved NFC North.

The Vikings, on the other hand, should play very good defense once again despite losing coordinator Mike Tomlin to Pittsburgh. But they have no wide receivers, no right tackle, no quarterback and a coach that's in over his head.

As for the Bears, it might seem foolhardy to think that their five-game margin over the Packers could be overcome just like that. No one's saying it's going to be easy, but recent history in the topsy-turvy NFL reminds us that the standings in one season have no bearing on the next.

In the decade from 1996 to '05, seven teams won their division by at least five games. Juggernauts? Not quite. Here's what happened to those teams:

1997: San Francisco (13-3) wins the NFC West by six games over Carolina. In '98, the 49ers finish second at 12-4, two games behind Atlanta. The 49ers lose to the Falcons in the divisional playoffs.

1998: Denver (14-2) wins the AFC West by six games over Oakland. In '99, the Broncos finish last at 6-10, three games behind Seattle. John Elway retired, and Terrell Davis, Shannon Sharpe and John Mobley got hurt.

1999: St. Louis (13-3) wins the NFC West by five games over Carolina. In 2000, the Rams finish second behind New Orleans at 10-6. Their defense collapsed.

2002: Green Bay (12-4) wins the NFC North by six games over Minnesota. In '03, the Packers finish 10-6, first by a game when the Vikings lose to Arizona on a last-second touchdown pass.

2004: Philadelphia (13-3) wins the NFC East by seven games over the New York Giants. In '05, the Eagles finish last at 6-10, five games behind the Giants. Injuries decimate their best players; Terrell Owens blows up.

2004: Pittsburgh (15-1) wins the AFC North by six games over Baltimore. In '05, the Steelers finish second behind Cincinnati at 11-5, then go on to win the Super Bowl.

2005: Seattle (13-3) wins the NFC West by seven games over St. Louis. In '06, the Seahawks finish first at 9-7. Injuries play a major role in their decline.

Cakewalks to division titles one year often lead to complacency, lower draft picks, free-agent raids and tougher schedules the next. Opponents spend months figuring out how to catch up.

Then there's the inevitable hangover for the loser of the Super Bowl, a game which the Bears had control of early before falling apart and bowing to the Colts, 29-17.

Of the last eight teams to lose in the Super Bowl, only two (Tennessee in 2000, Seattle in '06) had winning seasons and made the playoffs the next year. The six others went 5-11, 7-9, 7-9, 4-12, 7-9 and 6-10.

In some businesses, success one year almost guarantees success the next year. In the NFL, it guarantees nothing.

During general manager Jerry Angelo's six years in Chicago, the Bears have built their winning formula around good defense, good special teams and conservative offense. Now the Packers have decided to beat the Bears at their own game by adopting the same philosophy.

To make it work, a team needs great players on defense playing a sound scheme, the ability to control the ball with both run and pass, and dynamic special teams.

Angelo traded Thomas Jones, his best running back, to the New York Jets. His counterpart in Green Bay, Ted Thompson, drew a financial line in the sand with Ahman Green and lost him to Houston.

Mercurial Cedric Benson is all that the Bears have now. On paper, he's a better back than the Packers' motley collection of a third-year junior (Brandon Jackson), a part-time player (Vernand Morency) and an underachieving seventh-round draft choice (DeShawn Wynn). Whether he is or not remains to be seen.

Angelo made three other trades involving players within a 10-day span this summer, gearing up for what might be the Bears' last run. He has 13 players age 30 and over (the Packers have seven), including four starters on the offensive line. More than likely, linebacker Lance Briggs is in his final season in Chicago.

The Bears no longer have defensive tackle Tank Johnson, and Tommie Harris probably won't be the same dominating force in his first season back from a serious leg injury.

They have increased the weapons available to strong-armed, competitive Rex Grossman, but he's still a very poor athlete with slow feet and too much panic in his play.

On the other hand, the Packers return everyone of consequence except Green from what was the youngest team in the NFL.

The defense could very well be sensational. Thompson should have given up on weak link Marquand Manuel before he did, but Atari Bigby still has had three weeks with the starters. As long as Bigby doesn't become overly aggressive against play-action, his punishing presence will be felt.

A year ago, the Packers were impregnable against the run after coach Mike McCarthy got around to getting Kabeer Gbaja-Biamila off the field. His replacement, Cullen Jenkins, had a great camp. For five years opponents had a safe haven to get 4 yards just by running at "KGB." The difference now is immense.

Harrell has a long, long way to go, but at this point it's moot because Johnny Jolly emerged as a real player, Ryan Pickett is solid as a rock and both Corey Williams and Colin Cole would have larger roles in many other places. It might be similar to when Jamal Reynolds went bust but "KGB" came along to excel at the same job.

The breakthrough players on defense also have included Jarrett Bush, a far more talented nickel back than Patrick Dendy, and Will Blackmon, who gives Green Bay a legitimate threat on returns.

Thompson must take the early heat on Harrell, but James Jones might turn out to be as inspired a selection as there was in the draft. Rookies Allen Barbre, Korey Hall and Mason Crosby look like players, too, and Jackson might once he settles in.

Maybe it won't mean anything this season but the most significant development of camp was the improved play of Aaron Rodgers. For the first time, it can be said that Rodgers looks like he has a chance to be a solid starter in the post-Favre era.

Unless the defense is torn apart by injury, something the Packers were amazingly immune from a year ago, Favre shouldn't have to outscore many teams. McCarthy will have to pass to set up the run behind a so-so offensive line, and maybe Favre's presence alone will occupy defenses and make it all work to some degree.

In the end, the Packers will try to pass to get the lead. Then they will run the ball, play defense and let Jon Ryan punt to maintain it. It might make for less exciting games than fans in Green Bay have been accustomed to for 15 years but, in the end, the result would be well worth it.

It will be critical that Favre buys into the fact that this season isn't about him no matter what the TV types want to say. It's about winning the old-fashioned way, like the Bears.

Beat writers stand at practice day after day watching the team that they cover but never see any other team. Many writers end up overrating what they see, forgetting that the same energy is being expended in 31 other places and optimism abounds everywhere.

There's ever-present danger lurking in predictions stemming from just this kind of one-way process.

But ever since Thompson re-signed Jenkins, kept Al Harris happy and didn't acquire Moss, most of his moves in '07 have seemed like the right ones. The weakness at running back should preclude a run deep into the playoffs, but in a division as poor as the NFC North the Packers should be good enough to overtake the Bears.

MJZiggy
09-08-2007, 09:24 PM
Ok, he beat up the GM and the Head Coach, but JH has been sharing his kool-aid...

Joemailman
09-08-2007, 09:28 PM
Wow! Let's hear it for Bob "Kool-aid" McGinn. Seriously, it's good to hear a serious writer like McGinn talk this way. He obviously knows more about the Packers than the national pundits who thought the Packers would suck because they didn't get Randy Moss, and who thought James Jones in the 3rd round was a major reach, and who are just now starting to realize that KGB isn't the starter anymore.

GrnBay007
09-08-2007, 09:37 PM
IS IT SUNDAY YET???? :clap:

I am SO anxious to see them play.

RashanGary
09-08-2007, 09:44 PM
glug glug glug glug. . . . . Ahhhhh!!


McGinn really went out there. I really do believe this team is strong. I saw a lot of things come together for the Bears last year, even though their QB wasnt' top notch. It's a team game, ya know. The same things are happening here. Everything except the RB is coming together nicely. I think McGinn might have hit it on the head here and come seasons end, he could very well stand alone as the only local writer who saw it coming. I bet on them winning over 7.5 but that was a little safer than McGinn here. Even if the Packers compete with the Bears and don't win it, he'll still look very smart as nobody is predicting what he just predicted or even close.

BF4MVP
09-08-2007, 09:52 PM
VERY good article!

Fred's Slacks
09-08-2007, 10:17 PM
It brings great pleasure to hear this from someone who is supposed to be unbiased. Maybe there really is good reason for some optimism. Then again, maybe we get exposed tomorrow as the below average team that many think we are. I can't wait to see!!!

The Shadow
09-08-2007, 10:22 PM
good article.

FritzDontBlitz
09-08-2007, 11:59 PM
very imteresting.

HarveyWallbangers
09-09-2007, 12:40 AM
Mike Vandermause column: Experts might be surprised with 2007 squad

The 2007 Green Bay Packers haven't garnered much national respect.

Sports Illustrated picked them to finish 6-10. On a 10-man Pro Football Weekly panel, half predicted the Packers to finish lower in the NFC North than the Detroit Lions, who were 3-13 a year ago.

The Packers' four-game winning streak to close last season has been forgotten. Their rise to prominence on defense largely has been ignored. Despite relatively weak competition in the NFC, few pundits are mentioning the Packers as a legitimate playoff contender.

Maybe the Packers have the so-called experts right where they want them.

"We don't really care what the media says, no offense to you guys," linebacker Nick Barnett said this week. "It's all about football. It's not about what's said in the papers. It's not about what's said on the Internet. It's about what happens between those hashes."

Pro Bowl defensive end Aaron Kampman didn't hesitate when asked if he was convinced the Packers were better than last year. The implication was this team would be alive and well when the postseason begins.

Barnett rattled off several reasons why the Packers are an ascending team.

"The experience we have is better than last year," he said. "Camaraderie is a lot better than we had last year.

"We have a lot more confidence than we had. I think we play with a lot more energy."

What has Kampman sold on this team is its togetherness. "We care about each other more," he said.

Barnett said he has "100 percent confidence" the Packers will make the playoffs. But what NFL player is going to claim otherwise?

Rob Davis, a 12-year veteran long snapper, acknowledges that fact. "Any player in this league, all 1,500 of us, would tell you that we all feel we're a playoff team," he said. But in the same breath, Davis maintains a quiet confidence about the Packers.

"I think we're a lot better than they're giving us credit for," he said. "I don't mind the underdog role for what we're trying to do around here."

The last time the Packers made the playoffs was in 2004. Since then, Ted Thompson was hired as general manager and began a major roster makeover.

Just 13 players remain from three years ago. Only seven of 22 starters are left, including Brett Favre, Chad Clifton, Mark Tauscher and Donald Driver on offense, and Kampman, Barnett and Al Harris on defense.

So, are the Packers better off than they were in 2004, when they won their third straight NFC North title at 10-6 and were upset by the Vikings in the first round of the playoffs?

Defensively, they are significantly improved, with Kampman taking his game to the next level, A.J. Hawk replacing Na'il Diggs at weak-side linebacker and Charles Woodson serving as a vast upgrade over Ahmad Carroll at cornerback. No one longs for the days when Cletidus Hunt and Hannibal Navies were starters and Michael Hawthorne served as the nickel cornerback.

Offensively, the Packers aren't as good. No running back on the roster will match Ahman Green's 1,163 rushing yards and 40 catches from 2004. Driver won't be complemented by anyone as talented as Javon Walker (89 receptions, 1,382 yards, 12 TDs). No guard possesses Mike Wahle's ability.

Thus, a playoff berth will depend on the defense making up for the offense's shortcomings. It's an attainable goal, especially in the mediocre NFC and despite what the national experts think.

HarveyWallbangers
09-09-2007, 01:08 AM
Simple division as Bears will rule again
By TOM OATES

GREEN BAY -- Back in the day, the teams that currently comprise the NFC North Division -- Green Bay, Chicago, Minnesota and Detroit -- played in what was popularly known as the Black and Blue Division.

Lately, though, the North has looked more like the Orange and Blue Division.

As in Bears orange and Bears blue.

As repugnant as it may be for Packers fans to see their rival dominate the division, they can't deny it. While the Packers and Vikings are in various stages of rebuilding and the Lions are always rebuilding, the Bears have put considerable distance between themselves and their pursuers.

When the Bears went 13-3 during the 2006 regular season, the closest team to them was the Packers at 8-8. And the Packers had to win their last four just to get there, including a season-endng victory over Chicago when the Bears, their playoff seed secure, couldn 't even muster a half-hearted effort.

Over the last two seasons, Chicago 's 24-8 record was the only winning mark in the division during that time. Minnesota was 15-17, Green Bay 12-20 and Detroit 8-24.

With the regular season starting today, those three teams have a long way to go to prevent the Bears from winning their third straight division title.

"I think they're clearly the team to beat," Packers coach Mike McCarthy said. "They're the defending champions. They represented the NFC in the Super Bowl."

And they might be better than they were last year. The Packers, Vikings and Lions also will be improved, but none of the three is as complete as the Bears. The Packers and Vikings have stellar defenses and major questions on offense, the Lions have a potentially explosive offense and a suspect defense.

Perhaps the best way to handicap the division is to determine how many major holes each team has.

The talented Bears have only one real concern and that's quarterback Rex Grossman. If he develops any consistency in his second full season as a starter, the division race is over.

Fortunately for the rest of the division, consistency continues to elude Grossman. Last year, he had as many games (seven) with a 100-plus passer rating as Indianapolis' Peyton Manning. However, he also had three games where his rating was 10 or lower, including a bad-as-it-gets 0.0 rating in that loss to the Packers.

If the Bears stay healthy, they should parlay the NFC's best defense and special teams into home-field advantage in the playoffs. Like last year, however, they will be no match for the AFC 's best in the Super Bowl.

The Packers also have one major hole -- running back -- going into the season, but it could cripple them far more than Grossman's inconsistency will hurt the Bears.

That's because Green Bay 's entire game plan revolves around running the ball. If the Packers can do that, they will be able to play the conservative field-position game McCarthy wants because they have decent talent almost everywhere else. But getting quarterback Brett Favre to stick to that game plan won't be easy for a team that will rely on a mish-mash of rookies and unproven veterans to run the ball.

The Lions have only one major hole, but it's a big one. From front to back, from sideline to sideline, their defense stinks.

Quarterback Jon Kitna and the NFL's best wide receiver corps should allow mad scientist/offensive coordinator Mike Martz to re-create the unstoppable offense he had in St. Louis a few years back and give the Lions a chance to double last year's win total of three. But after team president Matt Millen picked wide receivers on the first round in four of the last five drafts, the defense is a lost cause. The Lions will switch to a "Tampa 2" scheme, but they don 't have the pass rush or secondary to make it work.

The Vikings have two major holes -- quarterback and wide receiver -- that likely will undermine their efforts to recover from a 6-10 season.

Second-year quarterback Tarvaris Jackson has physical skills but is too raw to be an NFL starter at this point. Too bad, because he's about the only hope coach Brad Childress has under center. And even though running back Adrian Peterson is a potential rookie of the year, Jackson's inexperience and a sorry collection of receivers will hamstring the offense.

The Bears had better enjoy it while it lasts because the rest of the division -- yes, even the Lions -- is getting better. Just not fast enough to catch Chicago this season.

HarveyWallbangers
10-03-2007, 04:09 PM
Q: Matt of Minneapolis - Bob, you are officially the hero of Packer nation with your early prediction of Packer success! Were there two or three things/moments that lead you to make such bold predictions about the 2007 Packers? Were there certain player performances, chemistry, or moments that stand out that lead you to say "Hey, this team is gonna be good."? I enjoyed your article about the topic last week, but I'm wondering if there are more specific things that you remember early on.

A: Bob McGinn - Matt: Getting Jenkins into the lineup to relieve KGB. That was last year. Jolly this summer. Jones the first day I laid on eyes on him at minicamp. Ryan this summer. Rodgers all summer. Favre's return. Barnett starting to come of age late last year. The promotion of Philbin. The continuity of the staff. The decision to bypass Moss. Bush this summer. Bigby for Manuel. When Thompson cut the roster to the final 53, it was exactly the same 53 I would have kept (actually 52, because I didn't know about the Grant trade). Even Barbre this summer. Just a ton of stuff that the Packers appeared to me to be doing right.

Q: wayne of new jersey - With the Packers great start and Randy Moss' amazing numbers in NE, can we at least wonder what might've been? Thompson had an opportunity to redeem Ron Wolf's mistake of drafting Holliday over Moss, but didn't get it done. Moss has single-handedly taken a very good NE team, and turned them into possibly one of the best teams ever. Obviously, we're not in NE's class, but I think we'd be the one of the favorites to represent the NFC in the Super Bowl. We're winning, and with Favre throwing 45 balls per game, Moss would be sure to get his balls and stay happy. How could one possibly argue that we would not be a better team with a Favre/Moss combination?

A: Bob McGinn - Wayne: Four games have been played. I haven't seen Moss play a down. I can't comment from any position of intelligence. The Packers already are one of the two favorites to win the NFC. That's according to Roxy Roxborough and LV Sports Consultants. I'll say this: when Moss joins a team, the dynamic changes. What is working in Boston might not have worked other places. I still don't like the guy and what he represents and what he brings.

SkinBasket
10-03-2007, 04:59 PM
Nice finds. Careful though. There's a couple of lines in the first article in particular that could land this thread in the Romper Room for being too causticly optimistic, leading pessimists to feel unwanted, outnumbered, and generally sad.