Our Offensive Line

[Scott Campbell]

It was pretty offensive. I love that we got the win. And I wasn't surprised that we struggled to run the ball. But I was shocked that the pass protection looked as bad as it did.

[Rastak]

I didn't see most of the game, but the Eagles generally get after the QB alot.

[esoxx]

What shocked me was Clifton and Taush's shakiness in pass protection. Those two are usually real solid.

[RashanGary]

It was bad. That has to get fixed. Those guys seem poised to make that next step but they didn't show it at all today.

I'm hoping we see some improvement every week starting next week against the Giants.

[esoxx]

I don't think it would take much for the OL to improve from today's performance.

[gbpackfan]

I shouldn't even respond to this post but I will. ENJOY THE WIN SCOTT! We can bring these topics up later in the week.

[superfan]

The Eagles pose a real challenge for pass protection. Their DC is one of the best at bringing the heat. Their defensive line and scheme played a big part in it today, but the GB line is also to blame.

Clifton and Tauscher both got beat regularly, more than expected, which is disturbing. Possibly more disturbing is that they should have been exploitable in the run game, and that didn't happen.

[RashanGary]

The Eagles really have our number. Let's see hwo they do next week. I don't want to have to win games with two muffed punts and near perfect defense every week. I know that is not going to happen. We need some offense even if it's just average. What we have now is really bad. That has to improve.

[Bretsky]

The Eagles really have our number. Let's see hwo they do next week. I don't want to have to win games with two muffed punts and near perfect defense every week. I know that is not going to happen. We need some offense even if it's just average. What we have now is really bad. That has to improve.


Any win is a good win

The crowd was very loud today

It was interesting for Larry Mac to not that in the fourth quarter there were a few running calls that went with pulling OL like the Sherman years as opposed to the ZBS cut blocking. Larry Mac indicated it's his hunch we may see a bit more of that going forward.

[falco]

The Eagles really have our number. Let's see hwo they do next week. I don't want to have to win games with two muffed punts and near perfect defense every week. I know that is not going to happen. We need some offense even if it's just average. What we have now is really bad. That has to improve.

And I was sure that once we started cut blocking everything would be fine.

[Willard]

The Eagles really have our number. Let's see hwo they do next week. I don't want to have to win games with two muffed punts and near perfect defense every week. I know that is not going to happen. We need some offense even if it's just average. What we have now is really bad. That has to improve.


Any win is a good win

The crowd was very loud today

It was interesting for Larry Mac to not that in the fourth quarter there were a few running calls that went with pulling OL like the Sherman years as opposed to the ZBS cut blocking. Larry Mac indicated it's his hunch we may see a bit more of that going forward.


Is it possible that we are already doubting the ZBS one game into the post-Jagz era? Interesting...

[KYPack]

We haven't run the Denver/ATL ZBS all year. The closest we come to it is kind of a hybrid where the lineman turn their bodies slightly and move in concert. The Jags-ZBS has been junked unless they are gonna put it in later during the year.

I hope we get some kinda system that is successful. What we're doin' now is not going great guns or anything.

[retailguy]

The Eagles really have our number. Let's see hwo they do next week. I don't want to have to win games with two muffed punts and near perfect defense every week. I know that is not going to happen. We need some offense even if it's just average. What we have now is really bad. That has to improve.


Any win is a good win

The crowd was very loud today

It was interesting for Larry Mac to not that in the fourth quarter there were a few running calls that went with pulling OL like the Sherman years as opposed to the ZBS cut blocking. Larry Mac indicated it's his hunch we may see a bit more of that going forward.


This would be bittersweet justice for me. Problem - these guys are too small to run a pulling OL successfully.

[RashanGary]

We haven't run the Denver/ATL ZBS all year. The closest we come to it is kind of a hybrid where the lineman turn their bodies slightly and move in concert. The Jags-ZBS has been junked unless they are gonna put it in later during the year.

I hope we get some kinda system that is successful. What we're doin' now is not going great guns or anything.


Right, we just gave up on it. It looks like a whole different style. They stopped cutting all together. I am very disappointed to see them just completely change like that. I am definilty worried about the run game. If they were going to do the same thing as last year but do it better, I'd be OK. If they are starting all over and Philbin is the mastermind, I'm scared shitless.

[retailguy]

We haven't run the Denver/ATL ZBS all year. The closest we come to it is kind of a hybrid where the lineman turn their bodies slightly and move in concert. The Jags-ZBS has been junked unless they are gonna put it in later during the year.

I hope we get some kinda system that is successful. What we're doin' now is not going great guns or anything.


Right, we just gave up on it. It looks like a whole different style. They stopped cutting all together. I am very disappointed to see them just completely change like that. I am definilty worried about the run game. If they were going to do the same thing as last year but do it better, I'd be OK. If they are starting all over and Philbin is the mastermind, I'm scared shitless.

Have some more kool-aid... THEY WON. Worry about this later in the week, mr. Self Appointed Kool Aid guy. :P :wink:

If I can be happy today, so can you.... :wink:

[Joemailman]

Both Philbin and Campen were brought here by Sherman, so it's not like they're a disciple of a ZBS guru as Jags was. I don't care what kind of a scheme we run as long as it works. However, it would probably help the development of our young offensive linemen to find something that works and stick to it.

[RashanGary]

I'm not aware of any team in the league that runs that fucking shit. Every zone scheme I'm aware of involves backside cutting. Our offensive geniuses seem to think they can do it completely different than the way it's been successfully done before. Absolutely rediculous if you ask me. This offensive line should be starting to gel and play together. Why in the fuck would you change the whole thing just when they were starting to click last year. I just don't get it at all. I'm not an expert but 50 yards fucking sucks and there is no excuse for it.

I'm scared shitless about this running game right now. I didn't see this coming becuase they made wholesale changes to the run game and just never told the fans about it.

[retailguy]

I'm not aware of any team in the league that runs that fucking shit. Every zone scheme I'm aware of involves backside cutting. Our offensive geniuses seem to think they can do it completely different than the way it's been successfully done before. Absolutely rediculous if you ask me. This offensive line should be starting to gel and play together. Why in the fuck would you change the whole thing just when they were starting to click last year. I just don't get it at all. I'm not an expert but 50 yards fucking sucks and there is no excuse for it.

I'm scared shitless about this running game right now. I didn't see this coming becuase they made wholesale changes to the run game and just never told the fans about it.


You brought the wrong bottle home from your brothers. Please drive back and get your kool-aid bottle. I can't handle this Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde crap. :P

I share your concern, but PLEASE enjoy the win. You've been bragging about it for months - and shockingly - IT HAPPENED. :oops:

[RashanGary]

Both Philbin and Campen were brought here by Sherman, so it's not like they're a disciple of a ZBS guru as Jags was. I don't care what kind of a scheme we run as long as it works. However, it would probably help the development of our young offensive linemen to find something that works and stick to it.

Right, find something and stick with it. They havn't done that. The running game is a pretty finicky thing. Why in the hell would you change the whole thing and then not even practice it in the preseason. To say I'm suprised at the way this thing unfolded is a huge understatement.

You mind telling the fans who bet on your asses when you're going to do some crazy shit like install a whole new run scheme and not practice it. . . .

Holy shit. Just holy shit!!

[Harlan Huckleby]

I think what matters is how they progress from week to week. Next week is the first time you are allowed to worry, you'll have two data points that you can connect with a line.

/ no worry
- worry
\ fire James Campen

[Bretsky]

Both Philbin and Campen were brought here by Sherman, so it's not like they're a disciple of a ZBS guru as Jags was. I don't care what kind of a scheme we run as long as it works. However, it would probably help the development of our young offensive linemen to find something that works and stick to it.

Right, find something and stick with it. They havn't done that. The running game is a pretty finicky thing. Why in the hell would you change the whole thing and then not even practice it in the preseason. To say I'm suprised at the way this thing unfolded is a huge understatement.

You mind telling the fans who bet on your asses when you're going to do some crazy shit like install a whole new run scheme and not practice it. . . .

Holy shit. Just holy shit!!


Larry McCarreins said they were cut blocking but stunk at it; honestly while at the game I was focusing more in on the WR's.

They really need Jennings. Phily's focus was on Driver; with the exception of that one deep pass Jones was rarely open today. Ditto for Martin and Holiday. They did not keep the TE to block as much on passing plays as they did last year. But Favre got knocked down more than any game I've seen in a long long time.

[RashanGary]

RG, I thought they would win but I thought they would come in and do what they did last year on offense at a higher level. I was not ready to install a whole new run system and then run the ball 9 freaking times TOTAL in the preseason.

I have no freaking clue where this is going, but I just lost a lot of confidnece in this offense. How can you do this?? I can't even piece together one piece of logic that allows me to understand WTF they are trying to do.

I'm OK if the run Sherman scheme. Rivera was about 310 and Wahle was about 305. Colledge is about 300 and Spitz 305. They are similar to the Wahle/Rivera combo. The problem is they havn't committed to it at all. They're running this strange zone crap along with some of the power gap stuff and some pulling. Seriously, it's hard enough to run one thing well, I just can't picture them doing it all well. They proved today that they can't do any of it. Just sick IMO. IT's a win, but they will not win consistantly like this. They better find an identity and find it soon or someone should be fired just for allowing it to get to this point in week one.

[RashanGary]

I think what matters is how they progress from week to week. Next week is the first time you are allowed to worry, you'll have two data points that you can connect with a line.

/ no worry
- worry
\ fire James Campen


hahaha, right on, HH

I'm freaking out becuase it was worse than I ever imagined it and then to cap it off, they aren't doing anything the way they were doing it last year. To top that off, my DVR didn't record the game so I can't go watch it to see. Pardon me while I prematurely panic! !

[Joemailman]

Before anyone goes off the deep end, it is worth pointing out that this is Week 1. It is quite common for defenses to have the upper hand in Week 1. By my count 17 out of 28 teams so far this week scored 16 or fewer points. We have a lot of company in the Struggling Offense Department.

[Bretsky]

Dallas is running on the Giants like they are the Michigan Wolverine Defense

If we struggle next week that will be a very bad sign

[RashanGary]

HH has a point, we have to let them come back and correct. I'm worried, but I'll wait until next week to start freaking out about this.

If we don't run the ball, we will not score. Simple as that.

MUST . . . . RESIST. . . . TEMPTATION. . . . TO. . . PANIC

[Harlan Huckleby]

Before anyone goes off the deep end, it is worth pointing out that this is Week 1. It is quite common for defenses to have the upper hand in Week 1. By my count 17 out of 28 teams so far this week scored 16 or fewer points. We have a lot of company in the Struggling Offense Department.

Sorry for hijacking the thread. But I have to say how I hate everybody who says that preseason is too long. If you say that, I hate you.

NFL teams need each of the 4 games to get up to speed, separate the wheat from the chaff. That's just barely enough, they used to have 6 games! If they cut it down to 2 games, we'll just see more sloppy football in the regular season.

OK, you can have the thread back now.

[RashanGary]

Before anyone goes off the deep end, it is worth pointing out that this is Week 1. It is quite common for defenses to have the upper hand in Week 1. By my count 17 out of 28 teams so far this week scored 16 or fewer points. We have a lot of company in the Struggling Offense Department.

[deep breathing] OK, you have a point. . .

This is how I was feeling. Thank you for calming it down :)

http://youtube.com/watch?v=tLrJVWS5QBw

[retailguy]

RG, I thought they would win but I thought they would come in and do what they did last year on offense at a higher level. I was not ready to install a whole new run system and then run the ball 9 freaking times TOTAL in the preseason.

I have no freaking clue where this is going, but I just lost a lot of confidnece in this offense. How can you do this?? I can't even piece together one piece of logic that allows me to understand WTF they are trying to do.

I'm OK if the run Sherman scheme. Rivera was about 310 and Wahle was about 305. Colledge is about 300 and Spitz 305. They are similar to the Wahle/Rivera combo. The problem is they havn't committed to it at all. They're running this strange zone crap along with some of the power gap stuff and some pulling. Seriously, it's hard enough to run one thing well, I just can't picture them doing it all well. They proved today that they can't do any of it. Just sick IMO. IT's a win, but they will not win consistantly like this. They better find an identity and find it soon or someone should be fired just for allowing it to get to this point in week one.

I know what you mean. I didn't see ANYTHING in preseason that suggested they'd improved.

I am concerned about it too, but, hey what are we to do? We got what we got...

Agree with Bretsky, if we don't run well next week, we can all panic.

Maybe we can get Kevin Barry back and reinstate U71? :P

[HarveyWallbangers]

When is the last time the Packers offense looked good against the Eagles defense? 2003. Even then, we only scored 14 points against them, right? I thought the OL play was horrible, but not everything is going to be perfect. That team has made our offense look ragged before. I liked the way the team fought, and what a defensive and special teams effort. I think it will get better. Hopefully, we get Jennings and Morency back this week.

[Willard]

Before anyone goes off the deep end, it is worth pointing out that this is Week 1.

Too late.......


I have no freaking clue where this is going, but I just lost a lot of confidnece in this offense. How can you do this?? I can't even piece together one piece of logic that allows me to understand WTF they are trying to do.

JH's postgame buzz is a little out of balance. Try taking some of the little red ones. Then, nighty night.

[HarveyWallbangers]

My biggest disappointment is that McCarthy abandoned the run. I think in the second half, they only ran it on first down twice--until the last drive. I know it wasn't successful, but how many times do we hear Coach Mac talk about how the running game is a four quarter deal. Then, he pretty much gives up on it. To run it only 17 times against a team that is dynamic defensively against the pass is absurd.

[RashanGary]

Alright guys, the shock of changing schemes and relying on Philbin to instal it just rushed through me in a fit of rage. I'm OK now :)

[Partial]

Plus, sometimes you've got to take the good with the bad. We won a game. That is good. It wasn't pretty, but we won. Knowing the OL and running game struggled, it will give them something to work on this week and to stay hungry.

No team is perfect. Even the ever-so-hyped Patriots. You'll see next week when San Diego bitch slaps them around.

FWIW, I don't think they have "changed schemes". I don't think they run smartly, but the cut blocks were there and the personnel they have was just fine. Clearly, by all accounts Philadelphia's defense was much better than expected and certainly stronger up the middle than anyone could have imagined. The big yards will come in the second half if you commit to doing it. They didn't do that.

[MJZiggy]

Alright guys, the shock of changing schemes and relying on Philbin to instal it just rushed through me in a fit of rage. I'm OK now :)

Glad you didn't hurt yourself there...

[Willard]

Alright guys, the shock of changing schemes and relying on Philbin to instal it just rushed through me in a fit of rage. I'm OK now :)

Glad you didn't hurt yourself there...

LIfe is a roller coaster. Enjoy it!

[Scott Campbell]

I have a feeling that there is going to be some splainin to do during the film session tomorrow.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Quite frankly, Clifton and Tauscher were horrible today. The good thing is that it wasn't because of injury or anything. They just got beat by some darn good DL. I expect them to play a lot better in the near future.

[esoxx]

Colledge wasn't too good today either. He whiffed on a spin move and got overrun a few times.

The Philly line dominated up front.

Better scheme, focus and intensity next week I'm hopin'.

[HarveyWallbangers]

On the plus side, the Eagles have one of the very best OL in the game. Andrews is as good as any OG in the game. Runyan and Thomas are good OTs. Jackson is a very good OC. Herremans is even solid. I tought we pretty much owned the line of scrimmage against those guys.

[Scott Campbell]

On the plus side, the Eagles have one of the very best OL in the game. Andrews is as good as any OG in the game. Runyan and Thomas are good OTs. Jackson is a very good OC. Herremans is even solid. I tought we pretty much owned the line of scrimmage against those guys.


In the second half - yes. But we gave up big yards on a lot of 3rd and longs in the first half. I was pretty concerned that our defense was not going to live up to it's hype. But holy cow - what a second half.

[RashanGary]

Defenses start out strong. We didn't run the ball a lot in the preseason. We have some young RB's and some health issues with Spitz, Morency and Jennings (who opens up the field by being a deep threat).

The defense and ST's were lights out. Really, as bad as the offense played, it's amazing that the defense kept getting thrown back out there and making yet another stop.

Offnese and defense work in concert. If our defense wasn't great, that could have been 35 pt route.

Our offnese and defense both had bad games last year and we still won 8. This is the NFL. Those guys are getting paid millions to line up and execute as well. I have high hopes for this team though. I really hope they get some of that cleaned up.

[Merlin]

The Eagles have a very good front four. Even so, our OL stunk it up pretty bad. This Zone Blocking Scheme is one of the easiest to run and we are making it look very hard.

[esoxx]

I was stunned to see Jenkins abuse Thomas the way he did. He even split a double team one time.

As good a pass rusher as KGB was/is he had always struggled with Thomas. Very impressive performance to say the least.

One thing that will be constant this year is the rugged defensive line play. It starts up front and Packers are loaded.

[Rivers Rutherford]

yes I agree

[HarveyWallbangers]

The Eagles have a very good front four. Even so, our OL stunk it up pretty bad. This Zone Blocking Scheme is one of the easiest to run and we are making it look very hard.

Why would you say that the ZBS is one of the easiest to run?

[Joemailman]

My biggest disappointment is that McCarthy abandoned the run. I think in the second half, they only ran it on first down twice--until the last drive. I know it wasn't successful, but how many times do we hear Coach Mac talk about how the running game is a four quarter deal. Then, he pretty much gives up on it. To run it only 17 times against a team that is dynamic defensively against the pass is absurd.

Harvey,

MM talked after the game about being concerned about the amount of time the Defense was on the field in the first half. I think he abandoned the run because he felt he needed to get some 1st downs, and felt Favre could provide that better than the running game. I know it's not how he wants to do it, but sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do, not what you wanna do. It actually worked as I believe the Packers had the ball for 4 minutes more than the Eagles in the 2nd half.

[HarveyWallbangers]

He also said in the interview on the Packers Radio Network that he was disappointed in himself for abandoning the run so much.

[Partial]

The Eagles have a very good front four. Even so, our OL stunk it up pretty bad. This Zone Blocking Scheme is one of the easiest to run and we are making it look very hard.

Why would you say that the ZBS is one of the easiest to run?

I am getting so sick of hearing the ZBS! It's not like there is one scheme and set of runs that everyone executes. It's not like Wisconsin, Penn, Michigan and then Denver and Atlanta all run the same plays...

Just a pet peeve and a gripe after reading these posts. Nothing at you, Harv.

[Noodle]

One thing Patler noted last week or so was the need for the coaching staff to show they can make adjustments. The D staff did that. Philly was getting after it in the second quarter, but after the half, the Pack D laid an asswhipping on them. I wasn't charting the game, so I don't know what the heck the staff did, but no question the D was more dominant in the second half than in the first -- good indication that the staff and the players are in synch and have confidence in each other.

O -- different story. Besides the field goal drive (13 plays to pick up 51 yards? oh man, that's tough sledding), the O in general couldn't solve Philly, and the OL in particular just kept getting Favre killed. So I'm finding the staff's inability to make OL adjustments the most disturbing thing. Of course, you can't adjust if you've got subpar talent to work with. Let's see how it goes next week.