Has the Kool-aid worn off yet, or is this to soon?

[PackerBlues]

I am glad that the Packers beat the Eagles. I was happier than all hell to see the smile / smirk wiped off of McNobbs face. I am very happy that we are 1-0.
I do think it sucks that I have to have Chad Johnson somehow score 30 points for my fantasy football team, to have a chance to beat Madtowns fantasy team though, lol........what an ass whoopin! congrats Mad :) .


Let me just say right off, that I am sorry for dwelling on things that I have no power over, and things that cannot be changed. Having been one of the people that wanted Moss, his dominating performance in week one was a bold statement to anyone who thought that he was not worth getting for the Packers.

While some people were complaining that Favre's accuracy was off on the long ball, I saw it differently. On 3rd and 1, Favre went deep to Jones, and it looked to me like once again, Jones slowed down early in the route to look over his shoulder for the ball (again). Favre sure looked frustrated enough about it, yet I did not see anyone in here mention it.

The statement that it takes time to build chemistry is correct, and anyone claiming that Favre needs to build up his chemistry with these young receivers would be correct to say that. They would also be correct to say that we have some very talented receivers with a lot of potential. What we do not have is veteran receivers other than Donald.

http://packerrats.com/ratchat/viewtopic.php?t=8130

In 1996, we definitely had a kick ass Defense. Our special teams rocked, but I don't think that anyone looking at our Offense on paper prior to the season, would have expected them to come together as well as they did. At receiver, Terry Mickens was the only guy that was around long enough to develop any kind of chemistry with Favre. Perhaps Freeman as well, but he was a rookie the Packers had drafted the previous year. The rest of the receivers were all free agent pick ups that very year. Whats my point? I guess it is simply that as important as chemistry, talent, and potential all are, experience is even more important.

Again, I apologize to all of you for complaining, but we are still sitting on an awful lot of cap room, and the excuses given to not sign guys such as Moss or Green, just do not wash to me.

I saw an interview with Favre a few hours after the game. You would have expected him to be smiling and upbeat. Instead, he looked frustrated and beat up. Some may assume that he simply does not like his new role of having to play it safe, or that his age is catching up to him. Trying to look at things from his point of view though, my opinion is that he may have been frustrated by the fact that he could not do what was asked of him with the lack of experience surrounding him. One glaring fact that everyone here should have noticed, is that Favre in fact did have to take some terrible risks to keep the Packers in the game. Favre had to be the gunslinger of old, even though the coaching staff had been preaching to him not to do the things he had to do, in order to get us in position to score. I have no doubt that they were cheering just as loudly as we were, watching Favre unload the ball in the middle of getting creamed or taken down by a defender. It was something we have seen Favre do time and again, but that he had been preached at, not to do.

Perhaps with the return of Jennings, the one extra weapon at WR will make a difference. Maybe if K-Rob gets reinstated, he will provide more experience to a position that lacks it. We can only hope anyways. Neither addition will change what we saw from our O-line and running game though. My hope is that is was more the Eagles Defense wreaking havoc that caused the problems with our O-line and running game than anything else. Because if this is what we can expect from them throughout the season...........

[cheesner]

If winning isn't good enough, you are setting yourself for a very disappointing life.

[Lurker64]

I think our offense definitely has issues to address, but they're issues that we can, realistically, only address through coaching, scheming, and waiting for guys to get heal or find their game. There's really not a lot of offensive talent sitting around waiting to get a call so we can spend some of the cap money. That die is cast, and everyone should just move on. "You know, I wish we would have spent some cap money signing player x" isn't any more constructive than "I wish player y wouldn't have gotten injured, I had high hopes for them." What we want or what we wished happened is immaterial at this point, we have a team and it is what it is, and just like every other team it has strengths and weaknesses.

But look at it this way, both last year and the year before the Packers offense started out flat and we didn't really score many points. Two years ago we didn't do much offensively against Detroit who's not a defensive superpower. The last couple years we started off against two good defenses, and in neither game the offense looked very good. But looking at the end results of the games, the offense got a lot better as the year went on. I don't know if this is an issue of coaching, scheming, locker room chemistry, or what. But the die is cast on who we've got, but not on "how good we can be." But recently this team has not been a fast starter, and I don't know if this is something you can turn around in one year. We play the Giants next week, a team that gave up 45 to Dallas. If we still can't score any points, I'll worry. But now? Who knows? At the very least, the Giants probably don't have a lot of useful film from this game on Sunday, as McCarthy probably looks to change a lot of what happens on offense.

Think of it this way, if Jones lays out just a little more and brings in that 3rd and 1 pass for the touchdown, how much better do we feel? That pass was only off by a foot or so. Those are things we can correct as time goes on.

But we have a sample size of one. We can't really know how much of what happened was "Green Bay's offense is lousy" and how much of what happened was "Philly's defense was lights out", and really it's probably a little bit of both. Unless your unit is one of the elite in the game, you can't really expect to dominate the opposing unit regardless of who they are.

[PackerBlues]

But look at it this way, both last year and the year before the Packers offense started out flat and we didn't really score many points. Two years ago we didn't do much offensively against Detroit who's not a defensive superpower. The last couple years we started off against two good defenses, and in neither game the offense looked very good. But looking at the end results of the games, the offense got a lot better as the year went on. I don't know if this is an issue of coaching, scheming, locker room chemistry, or what. But the die is cast on who we've got, but not on "how good we can be." But recently this team has not been a fast starter, and I don't know if this is something you can turn around in one year. We play the Giants next week, a team that gave up 45 to Dallas. If we still can't score any points, I'll worry. But now? Who knows? At the very least, the Giants probably don't have a lot of useful film from this game on Sunday, as McCarthy probably looks to change a lot of what happens on offense.



Excellent post Lurker, I liked your thoughts on how flat we started the last couple of years, compared to the huge win yesterday. :glug:

[Carolina_Packer]

Yeah, to be able to win close games as a result of and not in spite of your defense and special teams is wonderful. As some have alluded, hopefully the offense will gel as they get healthy. Right now, just don't lose it for us with turnovers, and eek out what you can as far as scoring.

Once Jennings is back, Morency is feeling better, the O-line starts clicking more (Favre seemed to be running for his life) and the timing and chemistry overall get better, who knows. They will probably not be a force, but can they score enough to support the effort of the defense? We'll see.

[Deputy Nutz]

In 1996 the Packers starting receivers were Robert Brooks, and Antonio Freeman. At tight end, they had Mark Chumura and Keith Jackson. They had two average to above average running backs in Edgar Bennett and Dorsey Levens. Midway through the year they lost both starting wide outs, but they had Don Beebe and then they brought in Andre Rison. During the string of injuries they lost 2 games against Minnesota and Kansas City, but righted the ship once Rison figured out the offense and Freeman came back from injury.

For sure the 1996 team wasn't loaded on offense but they had a ton of veterans on offense and Favre still threw for 38 touchdown passes, but the weakest part of the 1996 Super Bowl team was the offensive line, especially left tackle where the Jon Michaels experience began and failed.

Favre was young and also had a more talented team around him, 1996 was the year for the Packers and Wolf surrounded him with veteran talent.


The other thing, it has become common place to now blame everyone else on the team besides Favre for incomplete passes, INTs, and fumbles. Favre got all the accolades in the past, present, and future, he can handle the blame as well. Favre overthrew that ball to Jones, if Jones hesitated for a split second, thats life, get over it, and stop blaming your Grandma for Favre's constipation as well, its not her fault that Favre has a problem with carrots, he likes them but he just can't pass them as regularly as he can other veggies. Lay off your gram!

[PackerBlues]

In 1996 the Packers starting receivers were Robert Brooks, and Antonio Freeman. At tight end, they had Mark Chumura and Keith Jackson. They had two average to above average running backs in Edgar Bennett and Dorsey Levens. Midway through the year they lost both starting wide outs, but they had Don Beebe and then they brought in Andre Rison. During the string of injuries they lost 2 games against Minnesota and Kansas City, but righted the ship once Rison figured out the offense and Freeman came back from injury.

For sure the 1996 team wasn't loaded on offense but they had a ton of veterans on offense and Favre still threw for 38 touchdown passes, but the weakest part of the 1996 Super Bowl team was the offensive line, especially left tackle where the Jon Michaels experience began and failed.

Favre was young and also had a more talented team around him, 1996 was the year for the Packers and Wolf surrounded him with veteran talent.


The other thing, it has become common place to now blame everyone else on the team besides Favre for incomplete passes, INTs, and fumbles. Favre got all the accolades in the past, present, and future, he can handle the blame as well. Favre overthrew that ball to Jones, if Jones hesitated for a split second, thats life, get over it, and stop blaming your Grandma for Favre's constipation as well, its not her fault that Favre has a problem with carrots, he likes them but he just can't pass them as regularly as he can other veggies. Lay off your gram!

heh heh, grandma and those damned carrots again. :roll: lol.

I admit Deputy Nutz, that I intentionally left out the good running game and tight ends to get my point across. I am again rehashing the idea, that having more veterans is better than hoping for chemistry to develop along with talent and potential. I am beating a dead horse :beat: , and I am sorry. I will buy into your carrot theory, lol....... but I still disagree about Jones, it did look to me like he hesitated while looking over his shoulder, and I have seen him do the same thing in the preseason on the same exact route. He will get it right with time. Again, I am impatient and that is a fault of mine, I cannot help but to think about the "what if's" involved with the idea of having had a veteran WR running that route, rather than a guy that was just picked up in this years draft. :oops: :oops: :oops:

[The Leaper]

Our defense is an elite unit...and we still have Favre on offense.

That certainly will be enough to at least be in the playoff hunt in a piss poor NFC.

Take that kool-aid to the bank.

[MJZiggy]

Uhhhh...we won. And we play the Giants this week, who may be pissed and wanting to avenge their embarrassing defeat, but whom injuries have impacted both in their players and undoubtedly their morale. Here's hoping that we can use their uncertainty to our advantage and get a rhythm going especially since we'll have Morency and Jennings back. I'm willing to worry about veteran runningbacks when the time is right. Namely during the Superbowl letdown between January and the beginning of free agency...now is the time to get behind the boys we've got.

[Packnut]

Anytime the Pack wins and the Bears lose, all is right with the world. However, I just see the potential that COULD HAVE BEEN and it's very frustrating. Many here seem to settle for just making the play-offs. A couple of BOLD moves and we would have been talking about winning the NFC.

This D has the talent to carry us. 14 mill in cap space which could have given us a backfield of Henry and Griffith and also would have given us the NFC. How many of you argued that the Pats were wasting their money? You all look pretty foolish right now. Cheap does'nt win, and Thompson need's to learn that lesson NOW.

[MadtownPacker]

Cheap won yesterday and I have to say it was one of the most gratifying wins in recent years.

[Fritz]

It's the o-line that needs the work, I think. If Jackson or Morency or your Grandpa gets near the line and sees an opening, they'll get the yards. Unless Grandma has been feeding Gramps carrots. Then it's her fault.

[Deputy Nutz]

Good post PB, maybe things are turning around here, but the fact is Thompson decided to go a certain way with the offensive back field and it looks like it is going to take more than a season, or even one game for this running game to get on track.

[run pMc]

What do you think Vikings fans think about all their cap space? They lead the league, according to MMQB.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/peter_king/09/09/Week1/3.html


One more reason to fear the Colts: They are, relatively speaking, in phenomenally good cap shape. The 10 teams that open the season with the most to spend under the league's $109-million cap limit:

1. Minnesota $19.05 million
2. Jacksonville $18.66 million
3. Tampa Bay $17.12 million
4. Buffalo $13.77 million
5. Indianapolis $13.32 million
6. Kansas City $12.99 million
7. Dallas $12.95 million
8. Tennessee $12.93 million
9. Green Bay $12.80 million
10. Oakland $11.99 million

The teams pinching pennies the most as the season dawns: Chicago ($647,000), Detroit ($1.68 million), Arizona ($1.74 million) and the Giants ($1.76 million).

Think their fans aren't screaming for a WR?

[pack4to84]

When Lovie took over the bears they won games just like this. Even last year they won a few games with D and special teams play. Just like what GB did yesterday vs Eagles.

[oregonpackfan]

Blues,

I don't agree with you that Jones significantly slowed down causing the pass to be overthrown. The ball was just plain overthrown by Favre.

You could tell by Favre's body language that he was upset with himself for missing an open receiver. There was a good chance Jones would have scored a TD on that catch.

I agree with the posters who state that with Jennings and Morency returning and Jackson getting a little more experience, the offense should improve considerably.

[PackerBlues]

Blues,

I don't agree with you that Jones significantly slowed down causing the pass to be overthrown. The ball was just plain overthrown by Favre.

Perhaps I should throw the tape in and watch it again, I wanted to wait till the end of the week though when I start going through withdraw, lol.

You may be right OPF, it looked to me like Jones was slowed down by looking over his shoulder for the ball, and again, I did see the same thing, on the same exact route in the preseason. I thought that if he had been going full speed, he would have been in position to catch the ball on the run, and I took Favre's look of frustration as being upset that the rookie ran his route wrong again.

I am not saying I am right, and I will watch the play again when I get around to it. I will freely admit that I am wrong, if when I do watch it again, while thinking about your point of view, I see something different than what I thought I saw.

[Rastak]

What do you think Vikings fans think about all their cap space? They lead the league, according to MMQB.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/peter_king/09/09/Week1/3.html


One more reason to fear the Colts: They are, relatively speaking, in phenomenally good cap shape. The 10 teams that open the season with the most to spend under the league's $109-million cap limit:

1. Minnesota $19.05 million
2. Jacksonville $18.66 million
3. Tampa Bay $17.12 million
4. Buffalo $13.77 million
5. Indianapolis $13.32 million
6. Kansas City $12.99 million
7. Dallas $12.95 million
8. Tennessee $12.93 million
9. Green Bay $12.80 million
10. Oakland $11.99 million

The teams pinching pennies the most as the season dawns: Chicago ($647,000), Detroit ($1.68 million), Arizona ($1.74 million) and the Giants ($1.76 million).

Think their fans aren't screaming for a WR?


Nah, I'm not hearing any screams. They have a couple young guys that have some promise. Who can you sign now? Plus, that probably doesn't count the Pat Williams extension which is likely front loaded.

[Scott Campbell]

Blues,

I don't agree with you that Jones significantly slowed down causing the pass to be overthrown. The ball was just plain overthrown by Favre.

Perhaps I should throw the tape in and watch it again, I wanted to wait till the end of the week though when I start going through withdraw, lol.

You may be right OPF, it looked to me like Jones was slowed down by looking over his shoulder for the ball, and again, I did see the same thing, on the same exact route in the preseason. I thought that if he had been going full speed, he would have been in position to catch the ball on the run, and I took Favre's look of frustration as being upset that the rookie ran his route wrong again.

I am not saying I am right, and I will watch the play again when I get around to it. I will freely admit that I am wrong, if when I do watch it again, while thinking about your point of view, I see something different than what I thought I saw.


From what I remember, he slowed early in the route like he was going into a break. That's how he got his seperation. If he hadn't slowed down, he might have been able to catch the ball. But the corner would have been right there with him.

[Scott Campbell]

Who can you sign now?


Robert Fergeson types, which proves your point.

[the_idle_threat]

Blues,

I don't agree with you that Jones significantly slowed down causing the pass to be overthrown. The ball was just plain overthrown by Favre.

Perhaps I should throw the tape in and watch it again, I wanted to wait till the end of the week though when I start going through withdraw, lol.

You may be right OPF, it looked to me like Jones was slowed down by looking over his shoulder for the ball, and again, I did see the same thing, on the same exact route in the preseason. I thought that if he had been going full speed, he would have been in position to catch the ball on the run, and I took Favre's look of frustration as being upset that the rookie ran his route wrong again.

I am not saying I am right, and I will watch the play again when I get around to it. I will freely admit that I am wrong, if when I do watch it again, while thinking about your point of view, I see something different than what I thought I saw.


From what I remember, he slowed early in the route like he was going into a break. That's how he got his seperation. If he hadn't slowed down, he might have been able to catch the ball. But the corner would have been right there with him.

I agree with Blues on what happened, but I don't come away with the same conclusion.

When they ran the replay, I noticed that Jones sort of pulled up on the route for a moment, going hard downfield only after he saw the ball was going that way. I got the impression that he didn't know exactly where the ball was gonna go---that he was expecting it to go to a different spot than Favre was expecting to throw to.

This suggests to me that Favre and Jones were not on the same page on that play. It might be Jones' fault for not knowing the play or not running it correctly, as opposed to Favre's fault for overthrowing. If Jones had gone hard downfield from the get go, the pass looked like it would have been on the money.

The question is---would this have been prevented by bringing in a veteran receiver? Maybe a Darrell Jackson or Randy Moss?

I think not.

This didn't strike me as a rookie mistake---like the kind where an inexperienced receiver fails to get open against NFL caliber defensive backs. Jones was open on the play---he was just open in the wrong place. This struck me as the kind of mistake that any receiver can make that is new to Favre and new to the offense. It takes some time for most receivers to develop an uderstanding of a new offense and a rapport with a new QB. A veteran receiver could have made the same error, especially in week one.

[PackerBlues]

Maybe the real reason I want to blame Jones is the fact that he only got me two points for my fantasy football team, lol. :cry:

[GrnBay007]

Maybe the real reason I want to blame Jones is the fact that he only got me two points for my fantasy football team, lol. :cry:

I'll take him! :P