Is Greenway better than Hodge?

[No Mo Moss]

They seem like very similar players. Hodge is the bigger hitter. From everything I've read Hodge was the leader of that defense. He also finished with more tackles than Greenway. I wonder if this pick was a bit forced by the Vikes considering their horrible LB corp. In fact I think Donatarious is still penciled in as a starter for them. I live in the cities and many of my friends that root for the purple are slightly uncomfortable about the pick. Is anyone here an Iowa fan and could post a little info on the two backers.
http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f86/killoran25/257079.jpg

[Partial]

Greenway is quite good in coverage. Hodge is more of a bruiser.

Hodge will force more fumbles. Greenway will pick off quite a few passes.

I think Hodge will be the better pro since its tough to find a good ILB.

[RashanGary]

I just watched both video clips. I think they were pretty close when it came to toughness. I though Greenway looked a little more versatile. Greenway is a slightly tougher version of Barnett.

If you put Hodge in the middle though it will mask his coverage limitations. In the right situation I think Hodge can be just as good if not better. If I had to choose one before the other I would choose Greenway but where we got Hodge I think it was a much better value. It looked pretty close to me based on the tape.

[motife]

Greenway has incredible quickness and reflexes. He's tremendous at stripping the ball.

[Fritz]

I have no first hand info, but a colleague of mine who is a big Hawkeyes fan (and a Chicago Bears fan) says Hodge is the next Singletary, and he's crushed that da Bears didn't draft the guy.

He also said what everyone else is saying about Greenway - he'll be a fine outside linebacker in the pros. But my colleague likes Hodge a tad better for his disposition.

[Tarlam!]

Hodge has the more difficult road ahead of him. He wasn't a 1st rounder. He has to dislodge an incumbant, who happens to have racked up the most tackles and is heading into his 4th year and who was a 1st rounder.

If Hodge pulls that off, I would say, we got the better of the two, because that will be no easy feat, in fact. If that indeed happened, Barnett is no longer a sure starter outside. I love this environment TT has created!

Out of the two, I am glad we have Hodge. I think the Viking will be a fine player, but for our team, Hodge is the right guy.

[Rastak]

Is Greenway better than Hawk is the real question....and will only be answered this fall...

[HarveyWallbangers]

Vikings forums are rampant with predictions that Greenway will be better than Hawk. I want that Kool-Aid. Most Viking fans were happy with the Greenway pick. It's the later picks that had them upset. I think Greenway will be a solid LB--like a Dan Morgan. I think Hawk has the chance to be special. Watching the video clips on Yahoo, it's pretty clear that Greenway has to improve his strength though. Good athlete. Hodge is a question mark because we don't know if his game (and lack of really good measurables) will translate to the pro game. I know the coaches at Iowa liked both guys about equally. They raved about both guys on the airwaves here, so that's why a lot of Viking fans wanted to see both Iowa LBs selected. To me, Hawk is close to a sure thing. Greenway is not. Anybody making predictions that Greenway will be a better pro needs to take off the purple glasses.

[Rastak]

Vikings forums are rampant with predictions that Greenway will be better than Hawk. I want that Kool-Aid. Most Viking fans were happy with the Greenway pick. It's the later picks that had them upset. I think Greenway will be a solid LB--like a Dan Morgan. I think Hawk has the chance to be special. Watching the video clips on Yahoo, it's pretty clear that Greenway has to improve his strength though. Good athlete. Hodge is a question mark because we don't know if his game (and lack of really good measurables) will translate to the pro game. I know the coaches at Iowa liked both guys about equally. They raved about both guys on the airwaves here, so that's why a lot of Viking fans wanted to see both Iowa LBs selected. To me, Hawk is close to a sure thing. Greenway is not. Anybody making predictions that Greenway will be a better pro needs to take off the purple glasses.

I didn't know Peter King had purple glasses.

[HarveyWallbangers]

So, you found one guy that thinks Greenway will be better (besides, didn't he preface it by saying he "could" be better, but not really predicting that he "will" be better?). Well, I could say the same thing about just about every prospect in the draft. There were draft boards that had Ingle Martin ranked higher than Tarvaris Jackson (see scout.com), but you don't see me predicting Martin will be better. Hawk was rated as the #1 OLB on every trustworthy draft board that I found. Greenway was rated as the #3-4 at OLB. Hodge was rated the #1-2 at ILB. Personally, I think Hodge has a better chance of being better than Greenway than Greenway has of being better than Hawk, but I like Greenway more than Hodge. We'll see though.
:D

[wist43]

I, for the life of me, can't figure out what anybody sees in Greenway... I watched him play twice this past year, and I didn't put him at any better than a mid-round pick... and, yes, I was targetting watching both him and Hodge the whole game.

The Iowa games I watched this year, it was Hodge that jumped off the screen at you, not Greenway.

Greenway was an absolute wimp at the point of attack, he couldn't get off blocks, and he couldn't change direction in the open field... He got juked out of his jock more than once.

Hodge, on the other hand, flew to the ball, got off blocks effectively, hit a ton, and was generally all over the field - he was clearly the best defender Iowa had on the field.

To me, Hodge was clearly the better player in the games that I saw.

[mngolf19]

From what I have seen of this new Vikes management group, they go for players of character and that fit their particular scheme. Hawk and Hodge may be better than Greenway in some aspects, maybe even throughout their careers. But I think the Vikes believe Greenway, and Hawk, would have fit their new D scheme (cover 2) better. That's why I can't complain on some of the players they chose, at least not yet. :wink: If they fit their schemes best, then they are the right players.

[Rastak]

So, you found one guy that thinks Greenway will be better (besides, didn't he preface it by saying he "could" be better, but not really predicting that he "will" be better?). Well, I could say the same thing about just about every prospect in the draft. There were draft boards that had Ingle Martin ranked higher than Tarvaris Jackson (see scout.com), but you don't see me predicting Martin will be better. Hawk was rated as the #1 OLB on every trustworthy draft board that I found. Greenway was rated as the #3-4 at OLB. Hodge was rated the #1-2 at ILB. Personally, I think Hodge has a better chance of being better than Greenway than Greenway has of being better than Hawk, but I like Greenway more than Hodge. We'll see though.
:D


Actually King said he spoke with two NFC people who thought that.Greenway may be a better pro..I have no idea who'll be better. Hawk seems much more of a sure thing and had he been on the board I'm sure he would have been the Vikings pick...as other have said, who knows who'll be better.....can't wait for training camp!

[Partial]

The Vikings are switching to a tampa 2? Who's their D-Coordinator?

[mngolf19]

Tomlin, he was with Tampa last year as DB coach I think.

[Rastak]

The Vikings are switching to a tampa 2? Who's their D-Coordinator?


Mike Tomlin....he was Tamp'a's secondary coach I think.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Anybody else get the feeling the Tampa Bay 2 and the Jim Bates scheme are basically the same thing (minus a few tweaks), but called different things?

[Partial]

Anybody else get the feeling the Tampa Bay 2 and the Jim Bates scheme are basically the same thing (minus a few tweaks), but called different things?

I don't. They have their linebackers 3 across in a zone normally don't they? I don't believe we do.

[MadtownPacker]

Is Greenway better than Hawk is the real question....and will only be answered this fall...
Starting to sound like the REAL question is if Hodge will be better then Hawk. Everyone seems to think Hodge/Greenway arent that far apart.

[billy_oliver880]

Is Greenway better than Hawk is the real question....and will only be answered this fall...
Starting to sound like the REAL question is if Hodge will be better then Hawk. Everyone seems to think Hodge/Greenway arent that far apart.

Only time will tell. Lets hope that they are both damn good.

[Partial]

Madtown,

your signature is rather homoerotic, if I do say so myself :lol:

[wist43]

Is Greenway better than Hawk is the real question....and will only be answered this fall...
Starting to sound like the REAL question is if Hodge will be better then Hawk. Everyone seems to think Hodge/Greenway arent that far apart.

I think Hawk is much more versatile than Hodge, and of course, he has more size... but, I think very highly of Hodge.

I certainly think more highly of Hodge than I do Greenway... Greenway was the one "highly rated, i.e. first round rated" guy that I did not want to see the Packers draft - if they had traded down.

I don't think Greenway is a 1st round calibur player.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Anybody else get the feeling the Tampa Bay 2 and the Jim Bates scheme are basically the same thing (minus a few tweaks), but called different things?

I don't. They have their linebackers 3 across in a zone normally don't they? I don't believe we do.

They both play a cover 2 scheme in the back end. They both line their DEs wide. They both prefer LBs that can run, and don't mind undersized LBs. Not sure about what's preferable at DT, but I'm assuming ideally they'd want big DTs that keep OL off their LBs. The only real differences that I can tell is that Tampa tends to play their corners off wideouts (e.g. their corners play more zone than man)--while Green Bay likes to play bump and run. Fundamentally, they seem very similar to me. Maybe they like their LBs to have more gap responsibility--whereas Bates likes his LBs to run to the ball.

[Merlin]

I don't know a lot about Greenway, I do know that the Vikings fired their personell director after what has been called a "poor" draft by the Vikings. I heard a lot of rumors about him getting the ax but I am sure that's just what they were. Most of the Vikings Fans I know are such bandwagoners that they didn't even know that Greenway was their #1 pick, I am sure when the season starts they will all automatically become "experts"....

[Partial]

Anybody else get the feeling the Tampa Bay 2 and the Jim Bates scheme are basically the same thing (minus a few tweaks), but called different things?

I don't. They have their linebackers 3 across in a zone normally don't they? I don't believe we do.

They both play a cover 2 scheme in the back end. They both line their DEs wide. They both prefer LBs that can run, and don't mind undersized LBs. Not sure about what's preferable at DT, but I'm assuming ideally they'd want big DTs that keep OL off their LBs. The only real differences that I can tell is that Tampa tends to play their corners off wideouts (e.g. their corners play more zone than man)--while Green Bay likes to play bump and run. Fundamentally, they seem very similar to me. Maybe they like their LBs to have more gap responsibility--whereas Bates likes his LBs to run to the ball.

You're probably right the more I think about it. The only significant difference is their corners generally play a pretty deep zone.

The safeties are set-up to be the playmakers in both defenses by coming over the top. It kind of makes you wonder why they wanted Manual. You'd think they'd really want safeties that were burners in this scheme.

[Partial]

Greenway is really good in coverage. If he was faster and smaller he'd be a pretty good safety in my opinion. I am having a hard time comparing the two.

In my mind, Hodge fits the Pittsburg Steeler mentally with his short coming being he is really undersized. He hits hard and is really instinctive.

Greenway is more of an athlete than a bruiser. He seems like the type of guy Sherman liked to bring in to me. He's more in the mold of a better Nick Barnett than a Greg Lloyd or a Joey Porter. More finess than anything.

I think in the end Hodge will work out fine. He is the type of hitter and bad dude like Odell Thurman. He is a man's man linebacker to me. I really hope the linebacking coach is smart enough to realize you need a bad dude in the middle. Thats the one position of the linebackers where you want a big hitter that is not afraid to get into the brawl and lay it all on the line.

Hawk and Barnett have the speed to run all over the field. With a solid middle linebacker, these two can be the natural playmakers they were borne to be on the outside. I would love that.

I am PRAYING they move Barnett to the strong-side and sacrifice a few weeks of solid performance and adjusting for the last 13-14 weeks of the season and the future of great defensive play.

[wist43]

I agree partial... probably my biggest complaint against Barnett is that he is so soft - I hate passive football.

Hodge would immediately make the second level of the Packers defense much tougher... I'm hoping against hope that he's in the starting lineup by the 3rd or 4th game.

Myself, I would just make the appropriate moves, and Hodge would be starting from day 1.

[Partial]

Would you like Barnett more on the outside? I think if he is the strong-side backer and covering the tight end, he can have more success being a finess player then he could in the middle.

[No Mo Moss]

Well using the most significant scouting tool known to man...Madden 2006, I know this.

Barnett in the middle is rated at 88. If you move him to the weakside his rating jumps up to a 94 automatically.


In all seriousness though I think it is premature to say any of these guys will be better than Barnett. Barnett has had some monster games and is a proven player in the NFL. He isn't perfect, but he can be a player. I think there will be some intense competition at many positions during training camp.

[Partial]

I think Barnett is a pro-bowler on the strong-side. Coverage is his forte since he was a converted safety. He'd be great at the strong-side. The only problem is he sucks at getting off blocks, but then again what linebacker doesn't.

Hawk is a good blitzer so he is definitely meant for the weak-side. If hodge was 4 inches taller and 25 pounds heavier, he'd be a top 10 pick.

[No Mo Moss]

So Barnett would be the one covering up the TE right?

[wist43]

Yeah, I'd prefer to see Barnett on the outside... which side, I'm not sure. He has some deficiencies to his game that make him a liability out there as well.

You mentioned that he doesn't get off blocks well, which is true, but he also doesn't hold the point of attack well... Barnett is a "run around" guy every time, that can make for some enormous holes to run thru.

Given Hawk or Barnett, I'd take Hawk on the strong side in a traditional 4-3 b/c I think he's bigger, stronger, and tougher, i.e. he'd be able to deal with the TE more effectively.

That said, we all know that the defensive system the Packers are running doesn't employ the strong side backer in a traditional sense... so, from that standpoint, I'm not sure it matters which side Barnett moved to - I am convinced however, that he does, in fact, need to be moved to one of the outside spots.

[No Mo Moss]

Wist,

I agree with your statement. In this system the weakside backer has more freedom to make plays. It would be ashame to put our best defensive playmaker on the TE. If that's true I would want hawk on the Weak side.

What about ben Taylor though. I think he may beat Hodge out. What's his natural position though. Barnett in the middle, Hawk on the Weak side and Taylor on the strong side would be a good starting line-up.

[HarveyWallbangers]

The safeties are set-up to be the playmakers in both defenses by coming over the top. It kind of makes you wonder why they wanted Manual. You'd think they'd really want safeties that were burners in this scheme.

I think Manuel is a little faster than he's given credit for. At least, he looked that way last year. Last year, I thought Seattle would really get hurt by losing Ken Hamlin, but Manuel did a good job. He seemed like a legit starter. More of an in the box safety, but he seemed to have some cover ability and range also. I'm hopeful he's the answer. Ironically, Seattle was hurt worse in the Super Bowl when they lost him then they were when Hamlin got injured. Obviously, a major dropoff to their third safety.

[Charles Woodson]

Kinda OT but, which LB would you rather have. Ernie Sims or Chad Greenway? I find it interesting that the NFC North drafted the top 3 LB in the draft.

[Partial]

Well, it depends. Greenway is probably the better technician, but Sims is a crazy mofo like Greg Lloyd.

I'd take sims.

[Rastak]

Well, it depends. Greenway is probably the better technician, but Sims is a crazy mofo like Greg Lloyd.

I'd take sims.

I liked Sims alot intially but those 5 concussions and his size made me lean more toward Greenway.

[No Mo Moss]

Rastak, I don't think you can compare Hawk to Greenway. Based just on their college body of work, AJ Hawk completely took over games. He was head and shoulders the best LB in the draft. It should be interesting to watch.
Some brought up the draft from two years ago when the pack, vikes and Lions all took LBs early. Nick Barnett, Boss Bailey, EJ Henderson.
Hopefuly the pack still get the best of the three in Ernie Sims, AJ Hawk, Chad Greenway. I think they have a pretty good chance of having the best LBer.

[RashanGary]

Hawk was more physically dominate. Greenway made the play but Hawk blew up the play. I think a lot of those plays that Greenway narrowly made in college he will be unable to make in the NFL.

Hawk on the other hand was blowing up the competition and while the level of comp will rise, Hawk was so far above his comp that he should fit right in.

[HarveyWallbangers]

I like Sims more as a player, but I like Greenway more as a draft pick (because of those concussions). I might take Carpenter over both of them.

[mraynrand]

I, for the life of me, can't figure out what anybody sees in Greenway... I watched him play twice this past year, and I didn't put him at any better than a mid-round pick... and, yes, I was targetting watching both him and Hodge the whole game.

The Iowa games I watched this year, it was Hodge that jumped off the screen at you, not Greenway.

Greenway was an absolute wimp at the point of attack, he couldn't get off blocks, and he couldn't change direction in the open field... He got juked out of his jock more than once.

Hodge, on the other hand, flew to the ball, got off blocks effectively, hit a ton, and was generally all over the field - he was clearly the best defender Iowa had on the field.

To me, Hodge was clearly the better player in the games that I saw.

These old threads are awesome

[call_me_ishmael]

Agreed :)

[Guiness]

+1 for the Barnett mention higher on this page. Is he still playing?

[Brandon494]

Dig up some more.

[Freak Out]

LOL where in then hell did this come from?

[HarveyWallbangers]

To be fair, a lot of Viking fans have similar feelings about Greenway that a lot of Packer fans have about Hawk. They make a lot of tackles, but not enough big plays. Outside of the two respective markets, fans of other teams hear the name and think "good player". Both players are solid run defenders but have serious liabilities in coverage. I now think both guys add too much bulk over their careers (with the exception of Hawk slimming down this year). I think they lost quickness as a result.

Hawk = 837 tackles, 18.5 sacks, 9 interceptions, 4 forced fumbles, 31 pass deflections in his career
Greenway = 892 tackles, 14.5 sacks, 9 interceptions, 7 forced fumbles, 26 pass deflections in his career