Shady Brady and Bill Belicheat

[fan4life]

Check out this musical piece on youtube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0EU1O-hGxgg

[MadtownPacker]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!! I just used "belicheat" in a thread yesterday!

These guys better keep winning games or they will be consider garbage. This has the makings of a bad movie. :lol: :lol:

[Deputy Nutz]

What does Brady have to do with any of it? He just plays the game, I am sure he wasn't paying the guy personally to take pictures on the sidelines.

[RashanGary]

Brady might not be shady but his reputation certainly takes a hit as he was the winner of some big games that were decided by cheating.

Brady won 3 SB's cheating. Lets see how many he wins on a level playing field.

[Freak Out]

Brady might not be shady but his reputation certainly takes a hit as he was the winner of some big games that were decided by cheating.

Brady won 3 SB's cheating. Lets see how many he wins on a level playing field.

Oh he'll win a bunch.

[RashanGary]

I'm just not a huge fan of Brady. His team won some big games, but he's just not the QB that Manning or even Favre are/were.

That is just my opinion, but I don't think he is one of the all time greats. If you go off SB W's he is, but if you watch him, he's not. He's really, really freaking good but I don't think he belongs in the same conversation with Manning.

[b bulldog]

Manning is the best I've ever seen and Brady and Montana are very close imo. Brady may win his fourth this season and if people still don't believe in him after that, who cares. His championships will speak for themselves. I'm not a Manning fan but he is out of this world.

[Deputy Nutz]

Brady might not be shady but his reputation certainly takes a hit as he was the winner of some big games that were decided by cheating.

Brady won 3 SB's cheating. Lets see how many he wins on a level playing field.

I think this is an absolute ridiculous statement. Brady didn't cheat at anything, he won three super bowls,

Second, he has done more with less offensive talent than one Peyton Manning, and even Favre, especially in the first Super Bowl victory over the Rams. He didn't even have Terry Glenn his best receiver because he was suspended.

Brady's championships speak for themselves.

[Deputy Nutz]

Anyways the Pats got slapped pretty heavy today by the commish.

Belichek was fined 550k, the team was fined 250k, and if they make the playoffs they lose a first round pick, if they miss the playoffs they lose a 2nd and 3rd. all these picks come in 2008.

[GrnBay007]

Second, he has done more with less offensive talent than one Peyton Manning, and even Favre,

Wonder what Manning and Favre could have done if they had the opponents D figured out in advance. :?:

[HarveyWallbangers]

I think it takes a hit. The whole organization takes a hit. You are hearing about all of these suspicions that guys from other teams have. Like NE knew what they are were calling. This story keeps getting bigger and bigger, and I think it will end up tarnishing the whole Patriots dynasty. Especially if more comes out about stuff like this. No, this isn't something that all teams do. Stealing signs is one thing. Using technology to do and feed real-time updates is different. There was an article in one newspaper about how two coaches were talking. One talked about how late in a close game their radio set went out in Foxboro on two consecutive drives right when they were moving the ball. The other coach noted the same thing happened to his team. This could get uglier before it goes away. I don't dislike Brady, but the one attribute he's had is how it seemed he and the Pats was way ahead of the other team. Not that he had a big arm. His intelligence and awareness. Makes you wonder. I think the big thing is how far back has this gone.

[Jerry Tagge]

Brady lost the AFC Championship game last year when he threw an interception late in the 4th quarter. I'm glad the refs didn't use the "tuck rule" to overturn Brady's bumbling mistake like they did against the Raiders.

Brady never wins Super Bowl XXXVI without the refs handing him the Oakland game. Brady lost that game too but the refs overturned Tommy boy's blunder.

Tom Brady is the most overrated QB in the NFL. He's been living off of a great defense and gets the refs to save him when he screws up.

[Jerry Tagge]

Manning is the best I've ever seen and Brady and Montana are very close imo. Brady may win his fourth this season and if people still don't believe in him after that, who cares. His championships will speak for themselves. I'm not a Manning fan but he is out of this world.
GO APPLACHIAN STATE!

GO OREGON!!

Michigan, the most overrated college football program ever.

I can't wait to watch Notre Dame make it 3 in a row for Michigan tomorrow.

[b bulldog]

Tagge, if you have a problem with me why don't you just say so? Let me know if you are going to the Packerrats game, maybe we can have a little talk, if not, keep the great posts coming :lol:

[b bulldog]

UM is the most overrated team ever, does that make you feel better?

[RashanGary]

UM is the most overrated team ever, does that make you feel better?

Just say Brady is the most overrated QB and I'll be happy :)

[b bulldog]

That would be idiotic, you say Brett is the dumbest ever and I'll smile :lol:

[RashanGary]

The Chargers are fully aware of the signal thing right now. If the Brady looks as good without having the defenses given to him this week I'll come over permanently. If Brady shows to be less of a QB this week and going forward, I'll still think he's overrated.

[b bulldog]

lAST WEEK THIS HAPPENED IN QUARTER NUMBER ONE, BB put his team in this position and if you feel that way fine, I will not try to change your opinion on this but Brady will be fine and he will guide the Pats to another stellar season.

[RashanGary]

lAST WEEK THIS HAPPENED IN QUARTER NUMBER ONE, BB put his team in this position and if you feel that way fine, I will not try to change your opinion on this but Brady will be fine and he will guide the Pats to another stellar season.

I don't think he'll win any more SB's as the playing field is level now :)

We'll see. Brady just never impressed me like Manning and even Favre in his prime.

[b bulldog]

I understand, having three championships isn't very impressive. wHAT IS IMPRESSIVE TO ME IS HOW qb'S PLAY IN BIG GAMES, I want a guy who will win the big game , not a guy who will throw the most TD's, throw for most yards or a guy who can scramble the best. I want championships, that is all!

[RashanGary]

SB's won while cheating
3

SB's won without defenses given away before the play
0

Let's see where he goes from here. I just don't buy the "he was the QB of a SB team there for he's great" arguement. I want a QB to really be great.

[b bulldog]

Wanna place a bet on this season????

[RashanGary]

I'll throw $20 that the Pats don't win the SB. I don't want to bet too steep. I have a wife to answer to.

[b bulldog]

I'll take Brady and the Pats to at least make the AFC championship game right now and if you want, you could talk me into taking them to win it all also.

[RashanGary]

I see them losing to either Indy or SD if they run into them. Depends on how it's structured.

I like young, atheltic teams but NE also uses HGH so you never know how long those guys can last.

[b bulldog]

before the season started and before this took place I picked the Chargers but I would make the bet that Brady gets another ring during his career. If for some reason they don't win it all this year but go deep into the playoffs that should be enough to show that they are legit to most except the few that need to hang their hats on some things.

[b bulldog]

Dah, every team in the league uses HGH

[b bulldog]

yOU ALSO LIKED THE pACKERS RUNNING GAME

[b bulldog]

let me repeat, every team has players thaT USE HGH

[b bulldog]

sINCE YOU LIKE sd, YOU MUST GUYS WHO TAKE ROIDS???

[RashanGary]

bulldog, Brady might be good. He's universally accepted as a great player because of the big games he played in and won as a team. He's been known to make very few mistakes but knowing defenses plays would play a big part of that.

I've never been impressed with the way he played. He's never been a spectacular play maker to me. He's to QB's what Aaron Kampman is to DE's. He's a really good player. He's a probowl palyer, but he's not Reggie White, Brett Favre or Payton Manning.

I could be wrong but he's never impressed me. I'm very curious to see how he does without having the defenses plays for a year.

[RashanGary]

You could take Brett's 20th most spectacular play and it would probably be more spectacular than Brady's most spectacular play.

[b bulldog]

fAIR but he has football intelligence which makes him make few mistakes although he does still make them. This intelligence is one of the main reasons why is successful and why others are not. The intelligence will not fade as arm strength,accuracy and mobility does. Simply put and I won't take crdity for this because many have said this but Brady is a lot like Montana.

[RashanGary]

You think knowing what the defense is doiong before the snap has anything to do with looking smarter than everyone else?

I'm not saying it happened in every big game, but you have to admit that it is not a stretch at all to think that it did.

[b bulldog]

As I posted above, the whole team is open to criticism after this and all of these questions are legit. In regards to spectacular plays, Mike Vick would be near the top along side Steve Youngs scramble but Brady's most spectacular imo would be hoisting the Lombardi trophy three times after winning the SB.

[RashanGary]

In that case, Bart Starr is much better than Brady as he won 7 championships but I tend to think there is more to winning a championship than one of 45 players that suit up.

[b bulldog]

For all we know, it could have happened in every game, I have no idea how often it occurred. I would say this, if I was getting away with it I'd do it as much as possible if I was to do it at all.

[b bulldog]

As posted above, Montana and Brady are compared by many who know a hell of a lot more about football and the all time greats that either you or I.

[b bulldog]

bRETT SIMPLY MAKES WAY TOO MANY BAD DECISIONS althopugh he is very exciting. Their is a reason why he will break the good records this season along witht he bad. Everyone here will flip at this but I don't look at Brett as being a great big game player.

[RashanGary]

bRETT SIMPLY MAKES WAY TOO MANY BAD DECISIONS althopugh he is very exciting. Their is a reason why he will break the good records this season along witht he bad. Everyone here will flip at this but I don't look at Brett as being a great big game player.

Winningest player in NFL history. Went to two SB's, won one. Only had one losing season in his 16 (or however many year) career. He's a winner, bulldog. That is not arguable. He set the record for wins last week, in fact.

[b bulldog]

What is and what you forgot is playoffs and how many has he won since reggie left, that isn't argueable either! longevity doesn't make you great either. Brett is a first ballot HOFer but his playoff play has much to be desired since the denver loss in the SB. 7 pics in a single playoff game??

[RashanGary]

Brett was never involved with teams that were surrounded with performance enhancement scandles. His teams were never a part of the biggest illegal competitive advantage scandle in my years of watching the NFL either. There are plenty of reasons beyond Brady's play that could explain those wins and so far we've only taken into account the illegal ones.

[b bulldog]

Winner, never said he wasn't. What I posted on was big game performance, please see above posts please.

[b bulldog]

Fine and you can keep going back to that as I posted already at nauseum above. Believe what you want, BB opened the whole organization to all of this. Actually the biggest performance scandal was swept under the rug, the 70's steelers.

[Scott Campbell]

.........BB opened the whole organization to all of this. Actually the biggest performance scandal was swept under the rug, the 70's steelers.



Agreed on BB, and it does tarnish the entire organization.


So what's this about the 70's Steelers?

[b bulldog]

tHE FIRST GAME THAT WAS CLEAN THAN WAS THE JETS GAME, hence the reason why the game won't be forfieted as Goodell said. I'll take Toms numbers in that game as a start, we can agree on that :D

[b bulldog]

Mike Webster is all I will say

[b bulldog]

The team was fed roids, read some of the crap that went on back than. Webster himself said that in two years, he gained 40-50lbs. The lockerroom was a smorgasboard of riods ect.

[RashanGary]

tHE FIRST GAME THAT WAS CLEAN THAN WAS THE JETS GAME, hence the reason why the game won't be forfieted as Goodell said. I'll take Toms numbers in that game as a start, we can agree on that :D

I'll use this season. If Brady still tears it up in the playoffs I'll be a believer.

[Harlan Huckleby]

I think I need some roids.

[RashanGary]

I think I need some roids.

Go to online pharmacies ;)

They sell Viagra there too. I consider it a recreational drug :) It's recreation if you consider 4 hr rock hard **** a good thing for sex.

[Harlan Huckleby]

I won't need the Viagra until after the roids work their magic.

[b bulldog]

Brady needsd to do more, fine. If Brett can win a playoff game, I'll become a believer that he can actually win a big game with 92, sounds just as dumb but I'll play along.

[b bulldog]

Without 92

[KYPack]

I'm pretty sure Brady was involved in this insidious cheating scandal, Bulldog.

[RashanGary]

I'm pretty sure Brady was involved in this insidious cheating scandal, Bulldog.

McCArthy said the QB would benefit most by knowing other teams signals. Favre said it would help a ton. Every team accross the league is probably saying teh same things in their papers. Brady always had a mental edge. I wonder if this was it.

You tape a team, learn their signals, then next time you play them, you use the signals that you learned last game. Every team will change their signals and mask their stuff against NE now. I'm sure studying signals is part of Brady's weekly film study. I'll bet they have film on every team and it's just part of how Brady gets ready. The bigger the game, the more he studies, the better he plays.

[fan4life]

I have never considered Brady a "game changer." He has rarely had to carry the team because the Pats have had aggressive game-changing, ball-hawking defenses. He does have a good arm, but his biggest asset has been that "he plays smart."

And now, the source of that "smartness" is coming to light. As one analyst said, a game is often decided on a few big plays - and knowing what the defense is doing greatly increases the likelihood that the offense will hit a few.

Sorry, but this news cannot do anything but tarnish Brady's reputation. He may or may not have known about the sign-stealing operation - we shouldn't rush to call him a "cheater" without knowing what he knew. There is no doubt, though, that he benefitted from Belichik's little spy operation. Or that the source of his biggest asset - his "smarts" - the result of unfair competition, "cheating".

[esoxx]

I think I need some roids.

Oh, you don't want any.

I got them once from drinking too much Old Style.

Painful memories.

[Harlan Huckleby]

sounds bloody awful

[cheesner]

In his press conference, Belecheat must have said a dozen times 'that is behind me and I am moving on to the Chargers'

The reporters follow up questions should have been: 'Do you mean you are coming up with new ways to cheat for the Chargers?'

[HarveyWallbangers]

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=easterbrook/070918&sportCat=nfl


Belichick's cheating could lead to dark days for NFL
By Gregg Easterbrook, ESPN

The situation with the National Football League is a lot worse than people realize, and the only one who seems to grasp this fully is commissioner Roger Goodell. You don't issue emergency orders backed by threats on Sunday morning of a game day, as Goodell just did regarding the New England Patriots' files of cheating information, unless the situation is a lot worse than people realize.

Why is the situation worse than people think? Because the NFL is on the precipice of blowing its status as the country's favorite sport. The whole NFL enterprise is in jeopardy from that single word: cheating. It's the most distasteful word in sports. And now the Patriots have brought the word into the NFL.

Think the NFL can't decline? Fifteen years ago, the National Basketball Association was going up, up, up by every measure and was widely considered the gold-plated can't-miss "sport of the next century." Since then, NBA popularity and ratings have plummeted while NBA-based teams have floundered in international competition. At the moment of its maximum success, the NBA became overconfident and arrogant in ways that need not be recounted here. Key point: There was no law of nature that said the NBA had to stay popular, and it did not.

Today the NFL is king of the hill in sports status, ratings, merchandising and association with the American psyche. There is no law of nature that says the NFL has to stay popular. Overconfidence and arrogance could be the downfall of the NFL, too – and we might be on that precipice. People will always watch and play football, of course. But nothing guarantees that the NFL's version of football must remain the super-successful money machine that it is today. There could be autumn Sunday afternoons in the near future in which the overwhelming majority of Americans couldn't care less what NFL games are being shown. Fifteen years ago, sports-marketing types would have said "impossible!" to the notion that only 11 percent of American households would watch the NBA Finals, which is what happened this June. Plummeting popularity for NFL broadcasts seems "impossible!" right now, but might happen fast enough to make your head swim.

Criminal behavior by NFL players, haughty owners who demand public subsidies, negative press for the union, coaches who snarl at the public instead of acting grateful for their privileged positions, insufferable egotism from multimillionaire athletes: All these things can be overlooked as long as the games themselves are good. If the games themselves are tainted, the NFL could tumble with amazing speed. And now there is a cheating scandal – cheating by the team that presented itself as the epitome of the sport – which calls the games themselves into question.

First we learn that the Patriots were cheating by using video equipment to steal signs, in blatant violation of league rules. Then we learn that even after the scandal broke and Bill Belichick issued his Nixonian stonewalling statement, the Patriots were still keeping sign-stealing videotapes and notes from past games. Surrender of the tapes and notes was the subject of Goodell's emergency order, first reported by ESPN's Chris Mortensen. Sunday night on NBC's "Football Night in America," Goodell threatened more punishment of the Patriots if all cheating materials aren't surrendered, and repeatedly declared it was imperative that NFL games be fair and equal competition. That's exactly the crux of the threat Belichick has created to the league's golden goose.

Consider the Sunday night contest. New England had played San Diego just four games back, in the January 2007 postseason. Perhaps Belichick's cameraman was illegally taping the Chargers that day, and perhaps Belichick illegally used the information against the Chargers on Sunday night. The San Diego coaching staff has changed since the playoff game, so presumably its defensive calls are different. But San Diego's new defensive coordinator, Ted Cottrell, was defensive coordinator for the Bills and Jets, both AFC East teams, in the Belichick period. Perhaps Belichick has spied on Cottrell's calls before and took out the tapes of the spying rather than handing them over as Goodell demanded. Was New England cheating again Sunday night, when the Patriots advanced the ball with such ease it seemed they knew what defense San Diego would be in?

And the Patriots' cheating might have been more extensive than so far confirmed. Fox Sports reported that former NFL players believe Belichick had microphones installed in the shoulder pads of defensive linemen so the Patriots could tape other teams' offensive audibles and line calls. Needless to say, putting microphones on players violates NFL rules. Andrea Kremer of NBC reported that several teams might charge the Patriots this week with having stolen playbooks from the visitors' dressing room. The convenient "malfunction" of visiting teams' headphones at the Patriots' two fields under Belichick seems to have happened far too often to be an IT department error. The rumor mill says Belichick, Richard Nixon-style, has file cabinets of info on opposing coaches and assistant coaches – some gleaned honestly, some obtained by cheating.

It seems more than just an eerie coincidence that Belichick's unethical behavior involves illicit taping, the same offense that made Nixon's actions so sordid. The parallels to Nixon don't stop there. Caught, Belichick – like Nixon – tried to hide the true extent of the prohibited acts; Belichick – like Nixon – tried to claim his prohibited action hadn't been prohibited; Belichick – like Nixon – immediately stonewalled. It would be tempting to break the unhappy tone of this column with a Nixon joke – when the league plays Belichick's tape of the Jets' sideline, will there be an 18-and-a-half minute gap? But for all lovers of the NFL, there's just nothing to laugh about now.

What else is there about New England cheating that the team or league isn't telling us? Are the Patriots one bad apple, or is cheating common in the league? Worst, did the Patriots cheat in their Super Bowl wins? If New England was cheating in the Super Bowl, this will become the darkest sports scandal since Shoeless Joe and the Black Sox. If you don't think Goodell and all owners, including Robert Kraft of New England, are in abject terror of any possible disclosure that the Patriots were cheating in the Super Bowl, perhaps you just don't understand the situation.

The weasel wording of Belichick's Nixonian statement shows the New England coach full of contempt for the NFL fans, and the NFL enterprise, that made him a wealthy celebrity. Belichick declared that his super-elaborate cheating system was only a "mistake" caused by his "interpretation" of the league's rule. Wait, "interpretation"? The NFL rule bans teams from filming each other's sidelines. There's no room for interpretation, it's a ban! Here's the NFL policy, from a memo sent to all head coaches and general managers Sept. 6, 2006: "Videotaping of any type, including but not limited to taping of an opponent's offensive or defensive signals, is prohibited on the sidelines, in the coaches' booth, in the locker room or at any other locations accessible to club staff members during the game." Prohibited. There's nothing there to "interpret." Videotaping opponent's signals even after getting this warning isn't a "mistake," it's cheating. Belichick's cheating was not some casual spur-of-the-moment blunder but rather an elaborate staffed system that took a lot of work to put into place and that Belichick worked hard to hide. And you don't hide something unless you are ashamed of it.

Michael Vick tried to deny and stonewall, but at the last owned up and admitted what he did. That's dignity. Belichick is now using weasel words to deny responsibility for his own choices. What kind of example does that set for the young? "Make good choices," football coaches constantly preach to the young. Now, caught, Belichick wants a special exemption to responsibility for his own choices. Belichick also is trying to close the matter by saying he won't talk about it anymore. So he cheated and now unilaterally declares the matter closed because he doesn't want to face the consequences of his own choices. But this is not over and not going away. Before the cheating scandal, Belichick had a reputation for being heartless but a really good coach. Now, he seems little more than a creepy con artist, and it's the refusal to act like a man and take full responsibility that's really offensive. Goodell's draft-choice penalty against the Patriots – either a first or a second and a third – is the highest draft penalty ever imposed in the NFL. The severity of this sanction shows how seriously Goodell takes the violation. If more disclosures are coming, there might be a lot more punishment of the Patriots. And unless Belichick comes clean and stops lying about his cheating, this event should disqualify him from consideration for the Pro Football Hall of Fame – it is, after all, not the Hall of Cheaters.

Will Belichick even be in coaching by season's end? When the Vick dogfighting scandal first broke, most football pundits, and most in the Atlanta and league offices, thought there would be few repercussions. Then they thought Vick would have to make some kind of apology. Then they thought he'd need some leave of absence. Then they thought he'd be suspended for a year. Now they wonder whether he'll ever be allowed to play again. By acting Nixonian, Belichick is accelerating his fall from grace. Today, Belichick and New England are trying to pretend the scandal is over. It would not surprise me in the slightest if, before the season ends, Belichick resigns, or is suspended, or is fired by Kraft, or even is permanently barred from the league. Belichick's head might be necessary to preserve the integrity of the game. Surprisingly soon, sacrificing Belichick to save professional football might seem an attractive option, even to Kraft. Remember, there is no law of nature that says the NFL must remain popular.

[fan4life]

Easterbrook is dead on.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Unfortunately, I think Goodell & the NFL can just ride this out.

If the cheating was a LEGAL question, as with Vick, it would be an entirely different story. The truth would come out if peoples freedom and careers were threatened by the coppers. As it stands, Goodell has no desire or means to get to the bottom of things.

[packinpatland]

I read this earlier and thought exactly the same thing.....Easterbrook IS dead on.

But I have to wonder, Kraft gave Bellichik a contract extension and gave him the game ball on Sun. Wouldn't that look hypocritical he were to suspend or fire him?
Wait a minute..........Kraft's word doesn't mean much......ask anyone here in CT. :wink:

[the_idle_threat]

Easterbrook is giving this story fifteen minutes longer than it would have had otherwise.

If the streoid scandal isn't killing baseball (and the attendance numbers show it's more popular than it's ever been) then this story will be a raindrop in the ocean to football.

The NBA comparison is way off. The NBA went downhill because it banked too much of its popularity on the star power of one player---Michael Jordan---and it hasn't found a replacement since Jordan retired the second time.

[the_idle_threat]

The Broncos were penalized for manipulating the salary cap in their back-to-back championship seasons. That was cheating, and they won Super Bowls in the seasons they did it. Does anybody remember that, aside from a few Packer fans (like me) who recognize that we might have been cheated out of a second title?

Like that situation, the current situation will blow over.

Source: http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A28969-2004Sep17?language=printer

[HarveyWallbangers]

Seems like the NFL is afraid of what might be on those tapes. I think this blows. An independent source should have looked at these tapes to determine if there was anything more sinister about them. Nice cover up, Goodell. He just lost a lot of respect in my book.


NFL destroys 'all' materials from Pats spy scandal
ESPN.com

NEW YORK -- The NFL has received and destroyed all materials it requested from the New England Patriots concerning videotaping of opponents' sidelines.

A league statement Thursday said the team was in compliance with a request for tapes and other documents.

"The Patriots have fully cooperated and complied with the requirements of the commissioner's decision," the statement said. "All tapes, documents and other records relating to this matter were turned over to the league office and destroyed, and the Patriots have certified in writing that no copies or other records exist.

"League policies on in-game videotaping and audio communication will continue to be closely monitored and strictly enforced with all 32 teams."

Last week, Patriots coach Bill Belichick was fined $500,000 by NFL commissioner Roger Goodell and the team was fined $250,000 for violating a league rule that prohibits clubs from using a video camera on the sidelines for any purpose -- including recording signals relayed to opposing players on the field. New England also must forfeit a first-round draft pick next year if it makes the playoffs or a second- and third-rounder if it doesn't.

A video camera aimed at Jets coaches was confiscated from a Patriots employee during the first quarter of the team's 38-14 win Sept. 9 over New York. Jets coach Eric Mangini has had a cool relationship with Belichick since leaving as Patriots defensive coordinator after the 2005 season.

When asked if the Patriots' defensive players also used microphones or other recording devices in their shoulder pads to pick up Jets audibles, NFL spokesman Greg Aiello said: "We have no evidence to support that claim."

[Rastak]

Did they destroy them without reviewing them?

[Scott Campbell]

Nice cover up, Goodell. He just lost a lot of respect in my book.



He stole a page out of Nixon's playbook.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Did they destroy them without reviewing them?

Does it matter? Now, we won't know if there was nothing on them and no big deal or there was a smoking gun and the NFL covered it up to avoid a huge black eye. Actually, it probably doesn't matter. I seriously doubt the Patriots would have given them incriminating evidence--whether they told the NFL they did or not.

[Partial]

Rumor has it the 30 minutes of footage was followed by an episode of muppet babies. This is so lame. We all know they didn't turn in anything. And there isn't any real way of proving it one way or another.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Rumor has it the 30 minutes of footage was followed by an episode of muppet babies.

There is ALWAYS information. Just one obvious example: the lengths of the tapes that were turned-over might suggest whether it's a complete set. And I suspect it would be possible to tell whether the tapes were all actually recorded by the same video camera.

Burning all the evidence is hilarious, in a black humor sort of way. You have to admire the NFL's hutzpah. They got the world by the balls - what are we going to do, watch the CFL?

Goodell is crooked. Except that is too strong - he's not commiting crimes, just lying to the public. "Just business" some might say.