McGinn : Coloring GB, NFC North

[motife]

Coloring the Packers
By BOB McGINN
bmcginn@journalsentinel.com
Posted: Sept. 15, 2007
Last week, a personnel director for another NFL team provided this color-coded rating of 60 players under contract to the Green Bay Packers. The executive evaluates players year-round and takes into consideration performance in exhibition games, especially by young players. The scout says a player's production and durability are key elements in his grading system, as well as character. Each player is assigned a color category.

BLUE: Makes big plays on a consistent basis. Will win games. Among the top two or three at his position. Perennial all-pro.

RED: A very good player capable of making big plays. Probably among the top 10 at his position. Has a chance to make the Pro Bowl.

PURPLE: A solid starter. He won't be going to the Pro Bowl, but a team can win with him. Can't win games but won't lose them, either.

GREEN: A backup. If he's young, a team would be content with him. If he's older, a team would be looking to replace him.

YELLOW: A young player who hasn't played much and might have a chance to develop. Anyone else, you don't want on the roster.

PACKERS BREAKDOWN
The scout used a plus sign (+) to indicate that a player was on the high end of a category and a minus sign (-) to indicate that a player was on the low end. Here are his grades:

BLUES: None.

REDS (2): DE Cullen Jenkins (-), DE Aaron Kampman (-).

PURPLES (19): WR Donald Driver (+), WR Greg Jennings (-), T Chad Clifton, T Mark Tauscher, G Jason Spitz, G Daryn Colledge, C Scott Wells (-), QB Brett Favre, DT Corey Williams (+), DT Ryan Pickett, DE Kabeer Gbaja-Biamila (-), LB A.J. Hawk (+), LB Nick Barnett (+), CB Charles Woodson (+), CB Al Harris, S Nick Collins, P Jon Ryan (+), LS Rob Davis (+), K Mason Crosby.

GREENS (17): WR James Jones (+), TE Donald Lee, TE Bubba Franks, G Tony Palmer (-), QB Aaron Rodgers, RB Vernand Morency (-), RB Brandon Jackson (-), DT Johnny Jolly (+), DE Mike Montgomery (+), DT Colin Cole, LB Brady Poppinga (+), LB Abdul Hodge (+), LB Tracy White (-), S Atari Bigby, CB Will Blackmon (-), CB Jarrett Bush (-), CB Frank Walker (-).

YELLOWS (22): WR Carlyle Holiday (+), WR Ruvell Martin, TE Tory Humphrey, G Allen Barbre (+), T-G Junius Coston (+), T Tony Moll, C Tyson Walter, RB DeShawn Wynn (+), RB Noah Herron (+), FB Korey Hall, FB John Kuhn, RB Ryan Grant, FB Ryan Powdrell, DT Daniel Muir (+), DT Justin Harrell (+), DE Jason Hunter, LB Desmond Bishop, S Charlie Peprah (+), CB Tramon Williams, S Aaron Rouse, S Tyrone Culver, P David Lonie.

RECEIVERS: "If the Jones kid develops they've got a chance to be solid. I don't think they're going to be great. They're OK. The tight-end thing is a big hole for them. You're not going to get a lot of big plays out of those guys. Not a very good combination. I think Driver is still productive but he's nearing the end."

OFFENSIVE LINE: "They're solid. They have a couple guys in Spitz and Colledge who have a chance to get much better, and probably Barbre at some point in time. Clifton is on the decline. Tauscher is just a solid journeyman guy. You like the up-side of the group, I would guess. I would bet this line is probably about 16th best in the league. There's not a glaring weakness in the line and those guys all play hard and they're not bad as a unit, but there's just not a great player."

QUARTERBACKS: "Obviously, Brett's fading. And he doesn't have a lot around him. I don't know if you can put all that pressure on him anymore to go out and win games. I know he's got the streak now of him holding up but what happens when the other guy walks in? Other than this pre-season, you would say there's no way on Rodgers, and that's not a lot to base it on that he can go out and do it. Rodgers looked better. At least he showed a little more poise and looked like he could make a play. Whether he could go out and do it for 60 minutes or three games in a row, I don't know. You're never going to know until he plays."

RUNNING BACKS: "I can't think of a worse group. They're banking a lot on Jackson getting it done. I think that's the only chance they have. He wasn't a big-play guy in college. Caught the ball. I didn't know if he'd be a full-time guy or more like a third-down back. I've never been sold on Morency. Just the age and the character thing and just never having done it. Wynn has no chance to do that. I guess he could come in and take some plays for you. Grant has some athletic ability and he certainly looks the part. Hall is an adequate guy. He's not a great blocker and not a great catcher."

DEFENSIVE LINE: "It's a good group. They've got some guys who can rush and some guys who can play the run and they're pretty athletic. As a whole, it's probably within the top 10 in the league. You like Kampman but athletically he's like (Kyle) Vanden Bosch is in Tennessee. He makes his sacks on hustle and effort. Jenkins has some strength and he's athletic, and he can rush inside, too. Harrell still looks real raw technique-wise. The layoff may have hurt him. I thought Jolly was a real lazy, low-motor guy coming out that you wouldn't want on your team. Even last year. But somebody does a nice job with the defensive line there."

LINEBACKERS: "You like the two starters. I think Hawk has a chance to get better. For him to take the next step he needs to make some big plays. I don't see enough out of him. Barnett is a good football player. Smart, instinctive. Could play on a lot of teams. They're athletic and tough. Poppinga is OK as a third. You'd probably like better. I'd put the group somewhere between 10 and 15, probably closer to top 10."

SECONDARY: "With the two best players you worry about age and how long they will hold up. Both are fading. Athletically, Collins can do it. It's just whether mentally he can hold up and do it all the time. The other guy, Bigby, I think is just kind of a stopgap guy. You can kind of hide him. The speed thing with Bush just scares me. I'm afraid you've got to cover up for him, too. To me, he's OK in a short area."

SPECIALISTS: "The kicker was a question because the guy hadn't done it. But kicking a game-winning kick, that's a heck of a deal. Now let's talk five weeks from now. The punter's fine. They're a solid group."

[motife]

Coloring the NFC North
By BOB McGINN
bmcginn@journalsentinel.com
Posted: Sept. 15, 2007
The personnel director also broke down the other NFC North teams, in addition to a sampling of his favorites in the NFC and the AFC. For each team, the Blue, Red and Purple players are listed. Long-snappers were omitted.

CHICAGO BEARS
Blues (1): LB Brian Urlacher.

Reds (5): WR-KR Devin Hester, WR Bernard Berrian, DE Adewale Ogunleye (-), DT Tommie Harris (+), P Brad Maynard (-).

Purples (16): WR Muhsin Muhammad, T John Tait (+), C Olin Kreutz (+), G Roberto Garza (-), RB Cedric Benson (-), FB Jason McKie, DE Mark Anderson, DE Israel Idonije, DT Darwin Walker (-), DE Alex Brown, LB Lance Briggs (+), LB Hunter Hillenmeyer (-), CB Charles Tillman (+), CB Nathan Vasher (+), S Danieal Manning, K Robbie Gould (+).

Greens (16); Yellows (13).

Comment: "Still going to be very good defensively. The quarterback (Rex Grossman) is going to screw it up. He's not going to change. He made a lot of mistakes in college. The key is whether Benson is good enough to overcome that. Benson has been erratic his whole life. I'd hate to gamble everything on him. Adrian Peterson's just kind of a journeyman guy. If they run the ball OK, defensively they're good enough to go (to the Super Bowl) in the NFC. Their defense is solid. It's not a great group. Vasher can't run. They do a great job of putting him in position to make plays. They have four good defensive ends, Harris and Urlacher."

DETROIT LIONS
Blues (1): DT Shaun Rogers.

Reds (2): DT Cory Redding (-), K Jason Hanson.

Purples (10): WR Roy Williams (+), WR Calvin Johnson, T Jeff Backus, G Damien Woody (-), T George Foster (-), RB Kevin Jones (-), DE Kalimba Edwards (-), DT Shaun Cody (-), LB Ernie Sims, P Nick Harris.

Greens (20); Yellows (19).

Comment: "You know, there are some parts of the team that are actually OK. But they've still got such a long way to go. I don't see how they're going to put it together. The receivers have a chance, obviously. It's not a bad group. The big guys are athletic. They're not great route runners. The two others guys (Mike Furrey, Shaun McDonald) are pretty good route runners but they're not full-time players. The defensive line is OK. Shaun Rogers can dominate. When he wanted to go against the Raiders they had no chance to block him. The rest of the team is real shaky now. Their secondary is bad. Close to it (worst in the NFL). And the ends, (Dewayne) White and (Kalimba) Edwards, aren't good enough to put pressure on quarterbacks. (Rod) Marinelli is really a great person. It's a big step from being a position coach to being a head coach. I see them 6-10. Being generous. And they've already got one win."

MINNESOTA VIKINGS
Blues (1): G Steve Hutchinson.

Reds (1): DT Pat Williams (-).

Purples (17): TE Jim Kleinsasser, T Bryant McKinnie, C Matt Birk (+), G Artis Hicks, T Marcus Johnson, FB Tony Richardson (-), RB Chester Taylor, RB Adrian Peterson (+), DT Kevin Williams (+), DT Fred Evans (-), DE Erasmus James, LB Ben Leber (-), LB E.J. Henderson, LB Chad Greenway (-), CB Antoine Winfield, S Darren Sharper (+), K Ryan Longwell (+).

Greens (21); Yellows (12).

Comment: "It's going to be so hard to overcome the quarterback (Tarvaris Jackson), and I don't know if they're good enough defensively to do that. Other than the running backs, they don't have any receivers. Their best chance is to run the ball and play defense. But Peterson has to prove he can hold up. He hasn't done it. They've got Chester (Taylor) there, so maybe they can nurse Peterson through. Peterson has the speed. You just worry about his overall strength. It's not a bad group on defense. They're not great. They're a step below Green Bay and Chicago on defense. The ceiling for them would be 8-8. If something happens to Peterson, it could be 3-13 or 4-12. Jackson looks lost. You're trying to give him the benefit of the doubt as a young guy. He's athletic to get it done but he's not a special athlete."

DALLAS COWBOYS
Blues (0).

Reds (4): WR Terrell Owens (-), TE Jake Witten (+), DE Marcus Spears (-), CB Terence Newman (-).

Purples (17): WR Terry Glenn (+), WR Patrick Crayton (-), T Flozell Adams, T Marc Colombo, QB Tony Romo (-), RB Julius Jones, RB Marion Barber (+), DE Chris Canty, NT Jay Ratliff (-), LB Bradie James, LB Akin Ayodele (+), LB Kevin Burnett (-), LB DeMarcus Ware (+), CB Anthony Henry (+), S Ken Hamlin (-), S Roy Williams, K Nick Folk.

Greens (14); Yellows (16).

Comment: "A pretty solid team. You worry about age, particularly at receiver. I thought Romo really was fading on them at the end of last year so I don't know if he can put together 16 games. The offensive line is a little shaky. If they've got everybody healthy, other than the safeties, it's a pretty good group. The safeties I would worry about. I don't know that Roy Williams is exactly a modern safety. They've got some guys that can rush the passer and they're also good run-down players. Their front seven is pretty good."

NEW ENGLAND PATRIOTS
Blues (0).

Reds (4): WR Randy Moss (-), QB Tom Brady, NT Vince Wilfork (-), P Chris Hanson.

Purples (19): WR Donte' Stallworth (+), WR Wes Welker (+), TE Benjamin Watson, T Todd Light (-), G Logan Mankins (+), C Dan Koppen (+), G Stephen Neal (+), RB Laurence Maroney (+), DE Ty Warren (+), DE Jarvis Green (+), LB Mike Vrabel (+), LB Adalius Thomas (+), LB Tedy Bruschi (+), LB Rosevelt Colvin, CB Randall Gay (-), CB Ellis Hobbs (-), CB Asante Samuel (+), S Eugene Wilson (-), S Rodney Harrison (+).

Greens (14); Yellows (16.).

Comment: "They're better than they have been in overall talent. But they're still not the most talented team in the league. They do a lot of stuff and they're able to carry it off without making mistakes. Maroney's health is always a question. It's more talented on offense now, especially at the skill positions. But defensively they'll make plays and be in the right place."

INDIANAPOLIS
Blues (2): WR Marvin Harrison (-), QB Peyton Manning.

Reds (4): WR Reggie Wayne (-), DE Dwight Freeney (-), S Bob Sanders, K Adam Vinatieri (-).

Purples (8): TE Dallas Clark (+), C Jeff Saturday, RB Joseph Addai (+), DE Robert Mathis (+), DT Raheem Brock (-), LB Gary Brackett (+), S Antoine Bethea (+), P Hunter Smith (+).

Greens (15); Yellows (23).

Comment: "It's the offense that really carries them. They can make a lot of big plays. They get people behind and they're able to run the ball. If you can keep the game close they're going to struggle stopping the run. Sanders helps them some but whether he holds up, I don't know. Their depth is going to be tough. If those guys go down you've got college free agents out there playing. If they wanted to keep those big guys in place that (young backups) is what they had to do. They think they're going to win as long as they can with that group."

SAN DIEGO
Blues (2): TE Antonio Gates, RB LaDainian Tomlinson.

Reds (4): G Kris Dielman (-), NT Jamal Williams (-), DE Luis Castillo (-), LB Shawne Merriman.

Purples (12): TE Brandon Manumaleuna (-), T Marcus McNeill (+), C Nick Hardwick (+), G Mike Goff (+), T Shane Olivea, QB Philip Rivers (-), RB Michael Turner (+), DE Igor Olshansky (+), LB Shaun Phillips (+), CB Quentin Jammer, P Mike Scifres (+), K Nate Kaeding (+).

Greens (22); Yellows (12).

Comment: "They've really got some strong parts but they've got some parts that are really kind of lacking. You just wonder in key games if they can overcome that. They're kind of weak down the middle now with the inside backers and safeties. The quarterback to me is still a big question mark. Their strengths, obviously, are the running back, offensive line, tight end, defensive line and outside backers. Their O-line is really good as a group. But I think the running back sets so much of that up. People are so afraid of that and they're tough guys and will lean on you. Then when they play-action pass everybody's at the line of scrimmage because they're so worried about stopping the run. You devote so much energy to Tomlinson, you're worried about blitzing and all sorts of things with him. Gates was total luck for them but he's a good player. The secondary really isn't great."

EX-PACKERS
Finally, the personnel director revealed his color-coded grades for 16 players who were once Packers and aren't on any of the aforementioned teams.

Blues (0).

Reds (2): WR Javon Walker, Denver; DT Vonnie Holliday (-), Miami.

Purples (6): NT Grady Jackson (-), Atlanta; G Mike Wahle (+), Carolina; P Josh Bidwell (+), Tampa Bay; CB Mike McKenzie, New Orleans; P Craig Hentrich (+), Tennessee; DT Terdell Sands, Oakland.

Greens (2): RB Ahman Green (-), Houston; LB Robert Thomas (+), Oakland.

Yellows (6): TE David Martin (+), Miami; C Mike Flanagan, Houston; LB Na'il Diggs (+), Carolina; S Mark Roman (+), San Francisco; C Grey Ruegamer, New York Giants; G Adam Timmerman (+), St. Louis.

[Him8123]

Driver a purple, unlikely to go to probowl? he went to one last year as I recall

[Harlan Huckleby]

thanks for the article, motife

I wonder what this is based on - preseason?

I think the evaluations are reasonable, but they would be more credible if done after watching a handful of regular season games. Every year is different.

[arcilite]

Bernard Berrian a red and DD is not? rightttttttt

[Maxie the Taxi]

This is interesting reading, but in the end it's just noise.

What color is a win?

[FritzDontBlitz]

i love reading stuff like this after a game like the one we had against the giants.

[packinpatland]

CHICAGO BEARS
Blues (1): LB Brian Urlacher.

Urlacher got a sack today............first one this season........NONE last year.

[Willard]

Bernard Berrian a red and DD is not? rightttttttt
Exactly my reaction. DD could lead the league in catches/yards/TDs and he would still be considered a second rate WR. It must be his sour personality.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Urlacher is really REALLY good, one of the best players in NFL. If he isn't getting sacks, it's probably because he is needed in coverage.

[mraynrand]

Grady Jackson is not a solid starter. He's a green. Vonnie Holliday is a Purple, not a red.

And Brady is a Blue; Favre a red.


---
And Maxie, the color of a win is GOLD; sweet, mello, luxurious GOLD.

[BEARMAN]

Urlacher is really REALLY good, one of the best players in NFL. If he isn't getting sacks, it's probably because he is needed in coverage.

I feel the luv man ! :glug:

[Harlan Huckleby]

I feel dirty.

[retailguy]

I feel dirty.

Don't. We've always known you're a Bears fan. Come out of the closet. Harlan. Both of them... :oops: :P

[Harlan Huckleby]

actually I am a slight closet Bears fan. But that's only because I listen to Chicago talk radio a little. Those people are nuts, and they really do talk like that Saturday Night Live "Da Bears" skit. You can;t help but get a little interested.

retailguy, if you were on your A game, you would have made a better joke out of "Bear fan"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bear_community

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/8/8b/Bearflag.jpg/320px-Bearflag.jpg

[BEARMAN]

I feel like singing "Kumbiya" :hrt:

[the_idle_threat]

^^^ You obviously didn't click on the link. :lol:

[The Leaper]

Barnett and Driver are reds IMO. How is Tom Brady not a blue? Marvin Harrison is no longer a blue.

[MJZiggy]

I think this scout needs a new box of crayons...

[Harlan Huckleby]

^^^ You obviously didn't click on the link. :lol:

or maybe he did! :shock: :lol:

the best part of this forum is making new friends.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Post of the day on the Vikings board. I don't usually post these, but this one was funny, and you have to give the guy some credit for having some perspective.


You know your team sucks when:

Lions fans talk smack to you

You want the offense to hurry up and punt, so you can watch the defense play

The announcers for your game are Matt Vasgersian and J.C. Alpha-Romero

You are actually surprised to see Troy "Rock Lobster" Williamson catch a pass

You catch yourself nodding off when the Vikings are on offense

[Zool]

I like Vasgersian. I miss him doing Brewer games. He calls a good game, and makes random crappy pop-culture references. Its like I'm calling the game myself and my friend who doesn't quite get the jokes is watching with me (Romero).

Remember the Podsednik fanclub who used to sit in the bleachers in bikini tops with Podsednik spelled out on their stomach's? Ahhh 2004, I hardly remember ya.

[Carolina_Packer]

We are rebuilding because we are young and inexperienced at many positions. That doesn't mean we are bad, just that we don't know with a lot of certainty what we are going to get from guys week in and out, like you come to expect from a guy like Favre or Driver. Obviously that takes time. It reminds me of "Happy Days" when the Fonz couldn't bring himself to say the word wrong. "I was wr, wr..."

Call a spade a spade. Brett's not stupid, he knows that if he wanted to play ball with the Pack that it would be with a rebuilding team. So far this season, that has translated to 2-0. Long term, we'll see.

Personally, I would have preferred a GM who took a hybrid approach to team building. Insteading of sitting on 15 million under the cap, actually take a shot. I know developmentally MLB and the NFL are not similar, but I like the Dodgers approach in baseball. They have some veteran, short-term help for leadership and they have all that young talent waiting in the wings for their time to come.

I wish TT had taken a similar approach and taken a chance on a few guys who were cap casualties such as Randy McMichael at TE and Travis Henry at RB. What are their respective deals? I'm sure GB could have competed for them. I love finding diamonds in the rough too, but sometimes in order to compete at a decent level you have to get an experienced guy. I'm not sure what we would have had to give up to get them, but I don't think it would have broken the bank, unless St. Louis and Denver just threw insane cash at them. That's the way I think a team should be built. Somewhere in between having all your major guys come from FA or deciding to go with a bunch of development guys or street, undrafted free agents. There has to be a happy medium. It makes no sense to me to roll the dice on such inexperience hoping to get lucky, instead of trying to ensure their own luck by getting some experience.

We may have dodged the bullet so far, and Travis Henry and McMichael weren't going to ensure a Super Bowl, but again, you have to take a shot sometimes, bring in some veteran leadership at key positions of need and let the young guys develop instead of heaping responsibility on their shoulders and wondering why they aren't up to the task. If TT is enamoured of Denver's O-line, RB success, you first have to establish that system on the O-line before you can interchange parts at RB.

[HarveyWallbangers]

That $15M is often cited, but it's actually around $13M from what I can tell, and a lot of teams have around that same amount of money. It allows the team flexibility if they get injuries or if they want to make a trade or for resigning their own players. Now, I would have liked to see that number closer to $8-10M and had one more solid FA, but it's not like we could have gone out and signed a ton of high-priced FAs. I know the likes of Eric Johnson were available, but money wasn't the issue for that one. Some of the Eric Johnson types would have worked out--while most probably wouldn't have. We could have signed those types, but if we did, we might not have found out that we may have the answer in-house at some positions (Jarrett Bush, Atari Bigby, James Jones, etc.). Unlike some, I don't think we are sitting here at $13M because Thompson didn't want to sign any FAs. He did last year. I think he missed on some guys that he probably thought he could get (Moss, Justin Griffith, Terrelle Smith, etc.). Oh well. It doesn't hurt to have more money down the line or some money to resign their own players. It's not like I think Thompson won't sign FAs in the future. With the Pickett, Woodson, and Manuel signings, he has shown he'll go after players he likes.

[Carolina_Packer]

Sure, love signing our own best guys and drafting and developing and trying to bring a lot of bodies into camp. I just say, if you've got some major question marks at key positions like RB and TE, then you take a shot and use some of your money to get a Chris Brown or a Travis Henry at RB for a year or two, or you get a Randy McMichael or Eric Johnson at TE for hopefully a bargain. As long as you don't go nuts and break the bank, you are at least signaling to your fanbase and your offense that you are trying to get better sooner than later and not leaving it on the shoulders of the likes of Clark Harris and Brandon Jackson. Why take that chance when you have the money and there is some available talent that perhaps would not require long term deals, but more like tender deals? I don't get it. Let the younger guys grow into the system a little more.

[HarveyWallbangers]

I don't disagree, but Eric Johnson is more injury prone than Robert Ferguson and David Martin combined. I'm sure replacing injury prone Martin with more injury prone Johnson was a consideration. McCarthy would have had a lot of insight on Johnson since they were both in San Francisco. I don't know what the deal with McMichael was. I've heard he's a really dink for a teammate. That might have played into it. Nobody went after Chris Brown, and he returned to Tennessee for nothing. He followed up his game game last week with a crappy game this week. Probably will be his MO. He's also injury prone. Henry has been hot and cold in his career, he fumbles a lot, and he's one strike from a year-long suspension, so I don't blame them for not going after him either. It's not as cut and dried as it seems. I would have liked to get Justin Griffith and Ken Hamlin. Now, I'm not so sure that Atari Bigby isn't the answer. As far as the TEs, it looks like Franks and Lee are having the bounce back years that the Packers expected. Would Johnson really be a big upgrade? Maybe not. Still would have liked Griffith, but again, it sounded like there was something there that the Packers couldn't do anything about. They went after him, but he apparently wanted to go to Oakland to play with an old coach. I think the Packers probably went after more guys than we realize.

[BEARMAN]

^^^ You obviously didn't click on the link. :lol:
Now I feel dirty, ... eeeewwwwwwwwwwwwwwww, ... :whaa: