Color this 2-0 start legitimate

[HarveyWallbangers]

Saints' continued demise the top surprise of Week 2
Vic Carucci, NFL.com

A year ago, the New Orleans Saints were the NFL's surprise team with the surprise offense.

One season later ... well, nothing has really changed.

Drew Brees has struggled running Sean Payton's offense in Year 2 for both the quarterback and coach in New Orleans.

At 0-2, the Saints have surprised any number of league observers who considered them the cream of a not-so-impressive NFC crop. And with an offense that has produced a mere two touchdowns in two games, the Saints, indeed, have sent shockwaves with their struggles to reach the end zone.

Adding to the concern surrounding their slow start is this: It's one thing to lose a season opener at Indianapolis against the defending Super Bowl champion Colts, but it's quite another to suffer a 31-14 loss against the Tampa Bay Buccaneers.

Yes, the same Bucs who were 4-12 last season and who began this year on the wrong end of a 20-6 defeat to the Seattle Seahawks.

You want more surprises? Week 2 had plenty, especially upsets. It also had some big-time performances, most of which occurred in those upsets.

A rundown of the day's noteworthy accomplishments follows:

BREAKING DOWN THE UPSETS

Tampa Bay 31, New Orleans 14: The Saints have a familiar problem. They can't prevent big plays. Jason David, the new cornerback they acquired from Indianapolis, struggled in coverage as he did in the opener against the Colts. He was beaten on one of Joey Galloway's two touchdown receptions. Jeff Garcia, showing why Jon Gruden promptly made him his No. 1 quarterback after he was cut loose from Philadelphia, had little trouble finding openings in New Orleans' secondary, throwing for 243 yards. The Buccaneers also had little trouble creating running room for Cadillac Williams, who ran for 61 yards and a pair of scores. But what's up with the Saints' offense? Drew Brees threw for one touchdown to the lone New Orleans player who resembled what he was a year ago -- Marques Colston, who finished with eight receptions for 70 yards.

Cleveland 51, Cincinnati 45: Let's give Derek Anderson credit. For a team that isn't supposed to know whether it has a quarterback until rookie Brady Quinn gets his first chance to play in the regular season, Anderson did pretty well. He threw for 328 yards and five touchdowns. But let's face it: This was a game devoid of defense. It's notable that the Browns won, of course, because the Bengals were supposed to be the better team. Still, Cincinnati isn't going to go very far with such a porous defense (sound familiar?), which allowed Jamal Lewis to rush for 215 yards and a score. The same could be said for the Browns, who allowed Carson Palmer to throw for 401 yards and six touchdowns while giving up 118 yards on the ground to Rudi Johnson. After his team's horrendous season-opening loss against Pittsburgh, Browns coach Romeo Crennel needed this game to quiet mounting criticism about his leadership as well as persistent calls for Quinn to start.

Houston 34, Carolina 21: How great does the Texans' acquisition of Matt Schaub look now? Anyone who thought they paid too large a price (Houston swapped first-round picks with Atlanta last April and sent a pair of second-round picks -- in 2007 and 2008 -- to the Falcons in exchange for Michael Vick's backup) should be having serious second thoughts. Schaub has brought stronger leadership and a more decisive presence to the Texans' pocket than his predecessor, David Carr. He threw for 227 yards and two touchdowns against the Panthers. The performance completed a solid day by another key Texan pickup, former Packer running back Ahman Green, who ran for 71 yards and a score. It's worth mentioning that Carr's former teammates didn't do any favors for his chances of becoming Carolina's starting quarterback any time soon. Jake Delhomme threw for 307 yards and three touchdowns.

Green Bay 35, N.Y. Giants 13: First conclusion: Brett Favre still has it. Yes, yes, the strength of this Packers' team is its defense, which did a nice job of preventing Eli Manning from overcoming his sore shoulder and having another prolific performance as he did in a season-opening loss to the Dallas Cowboys. But Favre's ageless throwing arm was the story, as he shredded the Giants for 286 yards and three touchdowns on the way to becoming the winningest quarterback in NFL history. It should be mentioned that the Giants' defense, as it demonstrated in Week 1, is awful. Still, Favre did what a good quarterback should do against an awful defense.

San Francisco 17, St. Louis 16: The 49ers are still playing it safe on offense. They're not asking Alex Smith to do a whole lot with his arm. He barely did anything against the Rams (126 passing yards, no touchdowns) other than manage a close game fairly well, with the exception of a fumble. Niners coach Mike Nolan put the offense in the hands of Frank Gore, who despite his mother's passing earlier in the week generated a strong 81 rushing yards and two touchdowns. Nolan's defense was impressive, especially rookie linebacker Patrick Willis, who was credited with a team-high eight tackles and a pass defense. Although Marc Bulger threw for 368 yards and a touchdown, he was unable to do much damage. And it didn't help that his banged-up offensive line struggled mightily, allowing six sacks and providing little running room for Steven Jackson (60 yards on 21 carries).

Arizona 23, Seattle 20: This was a complete team victory, which is a clear sign of how much the Cardinals are maturing and progressing under the leadership of new coach Ken Whisenhunt. The decisive play came on defense, as linebacker Gerald Hayes forced a fumble that Darnell Dockett recovered at the Seattle 46-yard line with less than two minutes remaining. That set up Neil Rackers' winning 43-yard field goal with one second left. In addition to their defense and special teams, the Cards also got a huge game out of Edgerrin James, who ran for 128 yards and a touchdown. Matt Leinart was solid, throwing for 299 yards and a score. Russ Grimm, Arizona's new offensive line coach, has his blockers playing exceptionally well, especially in pass protection.

SURPRISE! THEY'RE 2-0

» Detroit: The Lions showed plenty of grit in their 20-17 overtime victory against Minnesota. Their defense flustered young Vikings quarterback Tarvaris Jackson, who threw four interceptions. The Lions also did a nice job of containing rookie running back Adrian Peterson, who finished with only 66 yards and did not reach the end zone. Jon Kitna was solid, continuing to do a nice job of operating a strong passing game that made up for what Detroit lacked on the ground, which was plenty. Color this 2-0 start promising, but shaky.

» Green Bay: With a strong defense and a youthful-looking Favre, the Packers have every reason to believe that they are a true contender. Color this 2-0 start legitimate.

» Houston: With Schaub at quarterback and Green in the backfield, the Texans are taking on the look of a playoff-caliber team. Color this 2-0 start intriguing.

» San Francisco: Two weeks, two nail-biting victories. The 49ers' defense looks for real. That was an explosive Rams team it held in check. It's hard to get a read on Smith or on how the Niners' coaching staff views his abilities, which certainly seemed more impressive last year when Norv Turner was San Francisco's offensive coordinator. At some point, he'll need to contribute much more. Color this 2-0 start shaky.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Vinnie Iyer gets credit (thus far, it's early) for jumping on the bandwagon before the season started. Now, the rest are starting to follow. Apparently, all you need to do to get props is beat an ordinary New York team.


Favre wins again -- but at behest of the best, don't be so impressed
By Clark Judge, CBSSports.com Senior Writer

EAST RUTHERFORD, N.J. -– While I listened to Green Bay's Brett Favre try to minimize the significance of the Packers' latest victory, a 35-13 waxing of the New York Giants, I couldn't help but think: He just opened the season by knocking off two playoff teams.

That should count for something.

So should this: Favre, who turns 38 next month, completed one of those vintage Brett Favre performances where almost everything works –- especially in the second half when he completed his first 14 passes and threw for three touchdowns.

Favre wasn't just good; he was superb, beating the Giants again and again with an assortment of passes to eight different receivers. Donald Driver led everyone with eight catches, but he was one of five Packers to have at least four receptions.

That should count for something, too.

Because the knock on this year's Packers was that they didn't have enough offense to catch Chicago. They didn't have a running game, Favre was too old and there weren't enough receivers to keep defensive coordinators awake at night.

Yeah, well tell that to the Giants.

They weren't just beaten; they were stampeded, overrun by a near-perfect second half where the Packers scored touchdowns on four of their first five possessions. I know the Giants aren't exactly the '85 Bears, but they had no answers in a second half where Green Bay was 4-for-4 on third downs, Favre missed only three of 21 passes and nobody committed a turnover.

"Impressed?" asked Driver. "I'm always impressed when Brett Favre drops back to pass."

Just a hunch, but I'd say the Giants might concur. When it was over, Favre was the NFL's winningest quarterback of all time, and the Packers had their sixth straight victory dating back to last season.

Significant? I'd say so. But then I listened to Favre.

"To me, I don't think we played all that well," he said. "Today we played pretty good on offense, but we still left some opportunities out there. There are some question marks about this team from my end as to who we are and where we stand."

OK, I won't disagree. But let's not get picky. They just beat the Eagles and Giants, for crying out loud. So they were a little lucky to overcome Philadelphia, but they demolished New York, with Favre producing his NFL-best 149th career victory and picking up a game ball in the process.

"The all-time anything in this league is something monumental," said winning coach Mike McCarthy, "but 149 victories? I think that speaks for itself.

"I know there's a lot made of statistics and touchdowns, but I think (the most important) is wins. When you go out and win over a period of time that's the ultimate compliment a quarterback can have. If you ask me what's the biggest record to have, I think he just accomplished it."

Favre, of course, is the target of critics who call on him to retire already and turn the team over to Aaron Rodgers or someone who isn't about to turn 38 and turn the offseason into a guessing game on the game's most important position.

Fair enough. But there's no quarterback I'd rather watch. Yeah, I love seeing Peyton Manning dissect defenses, and Tom Brady win Super Bowls and Carson Palmer throw for six TDs. But in terms of someone who simply enjoys himself out there? Give me Favre.

"I love playing the game," he said. "There's nothing like competing."

And he still competes better than most. That's what makes the Packers a team you can't discard when talking about potential surprises. Look, Favre doesn't have to be at his best. John Elway wasn't the same quarterback when he won consecutive Super Bowls, but he didn't have to be. He had Terrell Davis for support.

Favre isn't the same quarterback, either, but he has a decent defense to call on when he's in trouble. Over the first two weeks, the Packers surrendered only two touchdowns, and that will make any quarterback better -– and Favre knows it.

"I've always been about the team," he said. "That hasn't changed. From Day 1, when I was in fifth grade, they do give out trophies for individual achievements, and that hasn't changed. But I would much rather take a win.

"It is unfair that a quarterback gets labeled with wins and losses. I think it's a team effort and last week was a perfect example. I didn't do nothing, yet they gave me a win. I give it to our defense and special teams."

Sure, Green Bay must find a running game, but they may have come up with something in seventh-round draft pick DeShawn Wynn, who produced a team-high 50 yards rushing and two touchdowns.

And, yes, they must tighten their pass defense so we don't have repeats of that two-play, 66-yard drive New York put on them in the second quarter.

But we're nitpicking, people. The Packers are 2-0 and haven't lost over their last six starts. What's more, they seem serious about "proving a lot of people wrong," as Driver put it.

That means something to me, even if it doesn't to Brett Favre.

"It's sure better than 0-2," said Favre. "I sure hope our team -- as young as we are ... or as young as they are -- knows what's ahead of us. To start 2-0 with as many question marks as we have -- or had – I'm pleased. But we have a long way to go. I can't say enough about this team and the way they handled adversity."

Maybe the measuring stick on this year's Packers is next week's opponent: San Diego. It marks the third straight week Green Bay has faced a playoff club, and it marks the toughest challenge to date -– with Favre labeling the Chargers as a game where "the walls could come crashing down."

Maybe, but they haven't. Not yet. Not for a long time. And that makes Brett Favre and this year's Packers worth watching.

"We're getting way too much attention right now," said McCarthy. "We're 2-0, and we've got a long way to go. If no one notices, I'm fine with that."

Trust me, Mike. That's not going to happen. Not after Sunday.

[wist43]

They're 2-0, and things have fallen into place...

Don't consider them a contender by any means, but with the NFC being as putrid as it is, I guess you have to say they'll be in the playoff mix.

Still don't think there are any NFC teams worthy of being in the playoffs... maybe Dallas. New Orleans has come out and simply looked awful - maybe last year was a fluke???

2-0 is fun, enjoying it, but still not under any delusion.

[GrnBay007]

They're 2-0, and things have fallen into place...

Don't consider them a contender by any means, but with the NFC being as putrid as it is, I guess you have to say they'll be in the playoff mix.

Still don't think there are any NFC teams worthy of being in the playoffs... maybe Dallas. New Orleans has come out and simply looked awful - maybe last year was a fluke???

2-0 is fun, enjoying it, but still not under any delusion.

Awwe c'mon Wist, I bet you were smiling while you typed that. 2-0 sure sounds nice, doesn't it? :P

[Patler]

They're 2-0, and things have fallen into place...

Don't consider them a contender by any means, but with the NFC being as putrid as it is, I guess you have to say they'll be in the playoff mix.

Still don't think there are any NFC teams worthy of being in the playoffs... maybe Dallas. New Orleans has come out and simply looked awful - maybe last year was a fluke???

2-0 is fun, enjoying it, but still not under any delusion.

I don't see too many fans under any delusions, but six in a row is six in a row. If nothing else it shows that MAYBE this team has learned how to win games that are there for the taking. At the beginning of last year they didn't do that, and lost a couple that maybe they could have won.

There are lots of steps in becoming a legitimate contender. Winning games that you should win is the first step, regardless of how good or bad you are. If you should win only 5 or 6, win them, don't lose them. Winning games that you're not expected to win, but for one reason or another you are given the chance to win, such as Philadelphia this year, is another step. Hopefully, they have made progress in both of those areas.

When the roster improves, you have more games that you are expected to win and fewer that come as surprises. You still need to win all of those.

The six wins in a row I believe is the second longest streak since 1996. Sherman's teams won seven in a row twice, I think.

[oregonpackfan]

The Packers have not started the season at 2-0 since 2001. Now that's a couple of giant steps in the right direction!

[The Leaper]

Still don't think there are any NFC teams worthy of being in the playoffs...

Most AFC teams don't look it either? Denver, Baltimore, Cinci...plenty to scratch your head at with those teams as well.

Clearly, the two best teams (NE, Indy) are in the AFC. After that, it is balanced parity IMO...with every team having some glaring weaknesses.

[RashanGary]

Right, people seem to think that all playoff teams have top 5 offense, defenses and ST's. It's just not the case.

Some playoff teams are top 6 defense with top offense. Some are top 5 offense and top 5 defense. Those are the elites though.

Some have a top 12 offense and a top 9 defense. Some have a top 2 offense and a top 18 defense (like the Sherman Packers).

some have the 15th ranked offnese, 15th ranked defense and teh best ST's.

Playoff teams are the top third, not the top 2. This is a good team. They have very good defense, good ST's and an offense that I think can be average. I think we are somewhere between a fringe playoff team and a good playoff team. We're not elite and won't be until next year at the soonest IMO.

[HarveyWallbangers]

From ESPN:


Here are 10 observations from Week 2:
...
2. Pack coming back
The Green Bay Packers are looking like a potential playoff contender in the NFC. They've won six consecutive games dating to last season, the longest current winning streak in the league. They won their opener by holding off the Philadelphia Eagles in a defensive struggle. In Week 2, their offense scored three fourth-quarter touchdowns to embarrass the injury-depleted New York Giants, 35-13.

Packers GM Ted Thompson was an easy target in the offseason. He didn't do enough to land Randy Moss, some said. He stuck with safety Marquand Manuel too long, others pointed out.

Green Bay is young and talented on defense, with only two starters in their 30s. The Packers are the only team in the league with five of their own draft choices starting on the offensive line.

Rookie receiver James Jones had a 46-yard reception against the Giants, giving Brett Favre someone other than Donald Driver in the passing game.

The Giants, St. Louis and Carolina already have lost home games. New Orleans is struggling. It's early, but the Packers are two games ahead of the pace they set en route to 8-8 last season.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Dr. Z really needs to retire.


Mike McCarthy, the coach, said he wanted Brett Favre to show more consistency, which means a higher completion percentage, this year. Against the Giants he completed 76.3 percent (29-for-38) , aided largely by 14 straight at the start of the second half. He's normally not a high percentage thrower. The last time he topped Sunday's mark was in Game 6 against Minnesota in 2005 (28 for 36 for 77.8), 28 contests ago. See that, you tell the kid to do something and he does it. Who says he's not coachable?

Favre completed 61.6, 61.9, 65.4, 64.1, and 61.3 percent of his passes the five previous seasons to last year. He's a stats guy, so he has to know that the Packers led the league in drops last year. He can't even complement the guy without a snide remark--even after a good game. Off with his head!

His 61.1 completion % is much better than the likes of John Elway (56.9%) and Dan Marino (59.4%). Wonder if he'd ever write an article about how they aren't normally high percentage throwers? To say Favre isn't a high percentage passer is silly. He makes the occasional bone-headed throw and his deep ball isn't great, but the guy is ridiculously accurate on just about every other throw.

[Zool]

Well apparently in order to be accurate per Dr Z you have to throw 75%.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Marino comes off well in this interview--not a sourpuss. I always had more respect for a guy like Elway. To me, and I could have been wrong, but Marino seemed more concerned about his stats than winning. He also was afraid to take a hit--even early in his career. Then again, not many guys have thrown the pill like Marino. His pure passing ability may have been second to none. Favre is better on some throws, but Marino could throw every throw well, and make it look pretty. I still like the gritty, tough winners like Elway and Favre a bit more, but there's no denying Marino was one of the best ever.


Marino Saw Favre On His TD Trail
by Mike Spofford, Packers.com

When longtime Miami Dolphins quarterback Dan Marino retired following the 1999 season with an NFL-record 420 career touchdown passes, Packers quarterback Brett Favre was a little over halfway there, with 235 touchdown throws.

Yet Marino felt at the time that if any quarterback was going to approach his record, it would be Favre. The reason?

The Hall of Fame quarterback turned CBS television analyst cited many in a recent one-on-one interview with Packers.com. Favre's ability to make big plays outside the pocket, his ultra-competitiveness and his unmatched arm strength were just a few. But the one overriding trait that has tied the others together and put Favre on the verge of breaking the touchdown mark, in Marino's mind, is his unprecedented durability at the position.

"The thing that's incredible is his ability to play 239 games in a row," Marino said. "I really didn't think anybody would get to (the record), but I knew that the one guy out there that could probably get to that level of 420 would be Brett Favre. Not only his ability as a great quarterback, but the durability he has, just the ability to play each and every week, is pretty amazing."

This week against San Diego, Favre will start his 240th consecutive regular-season game needing just three touchdown passes to match Marino's record of 420. After the Packers' offense did not score a touchdown in Week 1 versus Philadelphia, Favre threw for three scores last week against the New York Giants to give him 417 touchdown passes in his 17-year career.

Favre's streak of consecutive starts, long ago the record for quarterbacks, will match Vikings center Mick Tingelhoff for the second-longest recorded string in NFL history on Sunday.

Marino marvels at the achievement because he was pretty durable himself, but not to that extent. Beginning when he took over Miami's starting job partway through his rookie year of 1983, he missed just six games over his first 10 seasons and 25 games of a possible 267 until he retired.

But as Favre's streak continues, Marino sees Favre succeeding because he has maintained his arm strength and accuracy, much like Marino did as a veteran. In his second-to-last year and final full season of 1998, Marino threw for 3,497 yards and 23 TDs.

"His arm strength and his ability to throw it accurate and with velocity is as good as anybody's ever had in the league," Marino said. "To play at a high level like he has for so long -- and that's something I always took pride in, too -- and to be that type of quarterback, that's what you have to have."

Marino confesses the biggest difference between himself and Favre is the ability to make things happen on the move. Marino was much more of a classic drop-back passer, whereas Favre has made his mark scrambling and improvising as needed.

But for Favre's sake, Marino hopes there's another significant difference too -- in how he breaks the touchdown record.

Back on Nov. 26, 1995, in Indianapolis, Marino threw his 343rd touchdown pass to break the record Fran Tarkenton had held for 20 years. The 6-yard scoring toss to Keith Byars came with 1:06 left in the second quarter, with the Dolphins trailing 24-0.

"It was a little bittersweet because we didn't win the game," Marino said of the eventual 36-28 defeat. "It was on the road and we were trying to come from behind. If I was Brett, I would want a touchdown pass to win the game, maybe in overtime. Something spectacular to do it. Mine wasn't that way."

During that 1995 season, Marino broke four of Tarkenton's career records, for touchdowns, pass attempts, completions, and passing yards, in four different games over a span of two months. But Miami won just one of those four contests, so for Marino there wasn't much to celebrate at the time.

Favre has felt exactly the same way about records, that they mean a lot more when they're attached to winning. Even as he became the all-time winningest quarterback last week with victory No. 149, Favre said after the game, "It won't mean a lot if we lose next week."

Favre broke Marino's record for pass completions in a 17-9 home win over Detroit last Dec. 17, and he's just 56 attempts and 3,370 yards away from breaking Marino's marks in those categories.

But the touchdown standard has attracted by far the most attention. Marino has held it for 12 years, and both quarterbacks suspect Favre won't hold it nearly as long.

Colts quarterback Peyton Manning already has 279 touchdown passes just two games into his 10th season, and his durability rivals Favre's. He has started 146 straight games, every game the Colts have played since he was drafted in 1998.

Favre's record ultimately may become just a number for Manning to surpass, but what that number will be Marino isn't going to guess.

"I think that's up to Brett, how long he wants to play," Marino said. "When I see him playing now, he looks great, he looks healthy. As long as he has that competitive edge and wants to play, he can throw as many as he wants."

Favre hasn't, and won't, make much of the records as they come up this season and for the rest of his career. Marino said that's to be expected, and it wasn't until he was finished playing that he felt any real appreciation for the achievements.

"I broke the records and I played four more years," Marino said. "I appreciated it, but it was about winning football games. I had accomplished some things that nobody else had ever accomplished that played the game. From that standpoint, when you look back on your time in the game, you appreciate your accomplishments.

"But while you're playing, you don't think about it as much because you're so into what you're doing. You're into playing at a high level and trying to win football games."

And that's something Marino will never tire of appreciating about Favre, regardless of how many records are broken along the way.

"No matter what the situation is in a game, he always gives you hope," Marino said. "He's such a mentally tough player, and his playmaking abilities always give you a chance. Just his ability to come from behind and be so competitive, that's something as a quarterback you love to see in a guy."