Colledge Sucks

[Partial]

I am watching the game today using our fancy new DVR and I have broken down every running play thus far. While I am far too lazy to type up an analysis, time after time I see Colledge get beat within a fraction of a second and take himself out of the play.

He is a god awful run blocker. When this happens, Wells gets pushed to the ground and then the man almost always ends up beating Juice. When these three are down, the running play is blown up for no gain.

It is ridiculous. This guy is terrible.

[Partial]

The concept of zone running is lost when you are strictly running towards a zone without blocking anyone.

The running plays blown up for losses by Strahan and Umenyiora are ridiculous. Both were untouched. Once by Colledge, once by Tauscher. Ridiculous.

This scheme they are running is terrible. I don't see them making any blocks let alone winning the battle far enough to require a backside cut block.

[Partial]

First backside cut was at 1:48 left in the third quarter. Pathetic.

Brandon Jackson gets nothing on most carries, and then will break a 5 yarder somehow. That's how he gets his average of 2.

I'd like to note I have seen 2 plays with pulling guards now. One appeared to be a misdirection run.

[RashanGary]

They are not running the typical zone. They are running a completely different scheme than they were ago. Last year it was sretch frontside, cut backside. This year they think they are brilliant and they are going to run a zone without the cut.

[CaliforniaCheez]

I watched at a sports bar and have not yet downloaded the game to review.

However I noticed he looked bad a few times. The standout ones for me were ones where the defender went between Colledge and Clifton. Not that I'm blaming Clifton.

I am hopeful that the issues can be resolved. Chalk it up to "a learning experience."

Barbre is learning too and may show something by next summer.

[RashanGary]

Niether Philbin nor McCarthy inspire confidence in me as far as the run game is concerned. Philbin worked with Sherman, which is good experience. McCarthy had a pretty good run game in N.O., but I was under the impression that McCarthy was a passing guru so he brought in Jags to coordinate the run game.

Now Jags is gone and in his place is Philbin, a guy who has never been in charge of a run game.

Last year we paid our dues installing the stretch zone with the backside cut. Now we are going away from it. We are still running some zone, but it seems like they are weining off of it. We're basically starting over. All of the time we put into getting good at the zone is going to waste. The running game is basically starting over from step one but they are not committing to anything.

In short, the run game with this coaching staff seems to be as much of an issue as the playcalling was with Sherman/Rosley. I am not impressed in any way shape or form. I want to see them make a commitment to something and go with it. All of this back and forth, jack of all trades master of none crap in the run game is doing nothing but stopping us from getting better. I blame the guys, but Tausch and Cliff were fine before. They got better last year and now they started from scratch. I think it's the coaching staffs indecisiveness that might be causing the slow start.

[Brohm]

I hear people say we are not running a zone scheme anymore. Is there any report on this or is this just a rumor gone wild.

[HarveyWallbangers]

We're running a zone scheme. Maybe they are confused by looking at passing plays. How did Colledge look when he played OT?

[rpiotr01]

Bench Colledge. They did it last year when he got lazy and they should do it again. Play Juice at LG, Spitz at RG. Make it very clear to them, you're all still playing for jobs. If that doesn't light a fire under him then nothing will.

[HarveyWallbangers]

I'd think they are well aware of the elephant in the room (Juice). Spitz hasn't been any better than Colledge and he's hurt. Keep them in there and let them work their way through it.

[rpiotr01]

Juice has had problems of his own. None of them should feel safe as long as they're playing this way.

[Carolina_Packer]

So, which one is it? Scheme (coaching) or talent (players) or is it a combo?

[Partial]

They're not running a different scheme. They're not executing their plays, though. It's not like last year every play would result in a cut block or a successful run.

It really seems to me everyone is focusing on getting to the linebacker and it results in almost every play being blown up at the los. Normally a dlinemen is free, sometimes even two.

[Merlin]

In case you haven't noticed, the whole line sucks when it comes to blocking the run. Colledge isn't responsible for every missed block. We are running to a zone and ignoring the player coming into the zone we vacated. There is no backside help either. And on the rare chance there is a hole, Jackson jukes himself into a defender.

[swede]

This is like the one-legged Tarzan skit.

How do we break it to the team that everything about their offense is working except the run game?

This is a very serious question: At some point can the Packers look through the reality of their recent history and say--we suck at zone?

They shouldn't have to fire Philbin when 60% of the offense is working fine.

Just fire the damn zone scheme becuase they obviously don't have a f***ing clue how to teach it.

I don't blame this on the athletes.

[motife]

Colledge played great last year. He's regressing. He's also uber-confident, even though his confidence may be misapplied. He considers himself the spokesman of the offense. You never hear Tauscher, Clifton or Wells say boo, but every week Colledge is giving press conferences.

It did wonders for Colledge last year when he got benched.

As for replacements, don't forget Alan Barbre.

Spitz or Moll too.

Colledge isn't that much better than any of them.

McCarthy was really high on Palmer too, the guy with the chipped vertabrae.

[Harlan Huckleby]

They have very little to work with. Who are the backup tackles right now? Do they even have any? Colledge is going to be a starter somewhere all season long.

[Carolina_Packer]

Hypothetically, if McCarthy had a crystal ball when he took the job and could see that Jags was only going to stay a year as the OC, would he have still hired him and installed the ZBS, or would he have gone more conventional blocking? What do you think?

[Harlan Huckleby]

I think the talk about the blocking scheme is over emphasized.

The other guys are pushing our guys around.

[motife]

I think the talk about the blocking scheme is over emphasized.

The other guys are pushing our guys around.

Tauscher and Wells are playing good. It's primarily the guards, and to some extent Clifton in the run game.

I'd like to see Barbre in there.

[rpiotr01]

I think the talk about the blocking scheme is over emphasized.

The other guys are pushing our guys around.

But the question is, are they being pushed around because they're inferior talent, or because they're improperly executing a scheme? If they just went man to man would they be pushed around so much? or are they being pushed around because the scheme tells them to go against their instincts, which messes them up?

[Harlan Huckleby]

I don't think Tauscher is playing well. but maybe that's just what I've noticed.

[Harlan Huckleby]

I'd like to see Barbre in there.

We have no reason to believe he's better than Colledge.

If we were put out there, it would say that the coaches are at least facing up to a problem and trying to deal with it. But maybe they are doing that anyway by sticking with Colledge.

[Carolina_Packer]

Will Whittiker still out there? :wink:

[swede]

I'm sensing two opposing views regarding the feeble run game.

One side says the scheme and the coaching suck. (I'm on that side)

The other side says anywhere from some to all of the offensive lineman are playing poorly or are inadequate physically.

Perhaps the common ground is that the offensive line, the coaches AND the scheme suck.

Is anyone really blaming the running backs anymore?


Defensive linemen going untouched is a problem with scheme or teaching of the scheme.

Give it the hell up Green Bay coaches--all available evidence clearly points out that you haven't a clue how to implement, let alone teach, the ZBS.

The rest of the offense looks respectable and is conceived and taught by the same people, so couldn't they at least put in a half dozen conventionally-blocked running plays?

[Lurker64]

I would like to blame the running backs, the offensive line, the coaches, as well as the other team's defensive line and LBs for our inability to run the ball very well.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Is it me, or has Chad Clifton looked bad during the first two games? Granted, it appears that the whole line hasn't performed capably, but he's supposed to be the stud. Is there anyone on the OL that sticks out in your mind as performing particularly well?

ROB DEMOVSKY: I didn't think Clifton had a particularly good game against the Eagles. He was responsible for at least one of the four sacks. I thought Clifton was fine in pass protection against the Giants but missed a couple of key blocks in the running game, which you could say about every offensive linemen. Seems to me that Wells has been the best among the linemen and probably Colledge has been the worst.

[HarveyWallbangers]

The rest of the offense looks respectable and is conceived and taught by the same people, so couldn't they at least put in a half dozen conventionally-blocked running plays?

Demovsky, from the Press Gazette, said the Packers did run more power runs on Sunday then they did against the Eagles, but those didn't really work either.

[swede]

The rest of the offense looks respectable and is conceived and taught by the same people, so couldn't they at least put in a half dozen conventionally-blocked running plays?

Demovsky, from the Press Gazette, said the Packers did run more power runs on Sunday then they did against the Eagles, but those didn't really work either.

All right, thank you, Harvey. This is starting to come into focus now.

The ZBS plays suck because they are poorly conceived and poorly executed. The power running game sucks solely because the O-line was built around ZBS.

DeShawn Wynn's touchdown actually did look like a conventional inside run that had been stuffed. That baby was all DeShawn. DeShawn and BJack should take their linemen out to Burger King this week just to thank them for their quality work.

[Maxie the Taxi]

This is a very interesting discussion. Here’s my "old school" take on it…

THE POSSIBILITIES
Bad Coaching – If this is true, we’re screwed. Even if MM knows his coaching is bad, he isn’t likely to change coaches in mid-stream. He’s a “fix it” type of mentality and will probably try some kind of corrective strategy with himself or jostling current personnel. MM’s no fool and he knows Alex Gibbs personally. If coaching is the problem, he could hire Gibbs as a consultant.

Bad Scheme (ZBS) – MM isn’t going to overtly change this in mid-stream either. If he thinks it was a mistake to go to ZBS, he’ll continue to try and “fix it” by modifying it to suit the talent available while the season is on. He’ll incorporate any substantive changes next off season.

Modified ZBS (without the cut blocks) – This could be considered a kindler, gentler type of ZBS, or a politically correct ZBS. If this is what MM has installed – for whatever reason – we’re screwed, because at least to my uneducated brain, it makes no sense at all to run ZBS without cuts.

Unsuited or not talented enough players – We’re stuck with the players we have, unless someone better suited to ZBS is waived by another team. In this case, we just have to make do with what we have until the draft or next off season.

Badly Executed ZBS – The only solution to this is practice, practice, practice and run, run, run during games. From everything I’ve read, the ZBS is very, very timing-dependent. It’s difficult to learn and more difficult to perfect. If this is the case, we must be patient and let practice and experience heal the problems we’re having.

Another possibility: Savvy defense – Just as OL coaches have been working to install and perfect ZBS throughout the league, defensive coaches have been working to install countermeasures. One way to combat the ZBS that most coaches and players agree on is penetration. If a defensive lineman can penetrate the zoning OL, it tends to blow it up. There are probably many schemes and stunts that coaches have developed that make penetration easier or more likely. Maybe the time has arrived when ZBS’s aren’t at a clear advantage anymore.

MY OPINION – MM and staff is at least as smart as we are. They watch more film and see the same or more things that we do. They’ll do what they think best to solve the problems. Personally, I don’t think they’ve abandoned the zone. I think it will just take more and more time to run it properly. If they stick with it and keep running the ball around 30 times per game, the running game will eventually gel nicely. There’s no quick fix possible. There’s none needed.

If they have, for some reason, modified the ZBS Jags taught them last year, they should go back to basics of ZBS immediately.

Lastly, MM and TT have already stocked the team with body types that are conducive to ZBS and not conducive to power blocking. The coaches can change the scheme, but they can’t change the body types of the personnel we have.

My advice, be patient. We’ve got a group of fine, young, talented backs who are learning a new system. Morency is an experienced cut-back runner. If he were in there, we’d know better where we stand. Hope he plays Sunday and gives us an idea.

This is our team, players and coaches! Live or die with them.